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Shield Resistance DO NOT work anymore

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Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:18:00 - [1] It has come to my attention today as I was fitting my ship that shield hardeners only give half of what they are supposed to. This problem is recent less than a month as I check often: Here is an example: My ship has the following base shield resistance: EM 30 Exp 60 Kin 40 Ther 20 The reason for the 30 in the EM is because I have a EM rig with a signature bonus drawback. The test I have done is with an Invunerability field I which should bring 25%. so my new EM should be 100-30 = 70 then 100 - (70* 0.75) = 47.5%. Well I only get half of that, as I get 38.75% which is exactly 12.5% increase in resistance thus half of the 25%. My problem gives the same results on my brother's account so it is just not me. Please, help me notify this asap or let me have an explanation. Thank you.
Tarmiriel ASSASSIN SYNDICATE	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:35:00 - [2] your em is incurring a stacking penalty, since the rig, and the mod increase the same attribute.....ie it's the same as if you had no rig, and two mods check your thermal resists, you should find full benifit
storm2k5	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:36:00 - [3] I don't know how it works for shields, but: Armor rigs are stacking nerfed with armor modules (like EANM, hardeners) I guess it's the same with shield. If you put 2 Invul fields, you don't get 43.75% res either, do you? /storm
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:40:00 - [4] The rig should have no effect as its only drawback is signature radius. I have another example: My abaddon is rigged with armor rigs for tanking and all harderners work as they should. None of the 4 resistance work. EM, Expl, Kin and thermal are affected by this half scenario and I only have the EM rig.
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:42:00 - [5] Also, to answer the second reply, Invu do not have penalty for using more than one.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Joebarchuck Also, to answer the second reply, Invu do not have penalty for using more than one. You're wrong, they do. And rigs also count in the stacking penalty. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:50:00 - [7] Even if they do there should not be any penalty for using one. And why do armor rigs not affect my armor hardeners? Something does not make sense, we need info from CCP
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.26 11:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Joebarchuck Even if they do there should not be any penalty for using one. And why do armor rigs not affect my armor hardeners? Something does not make sense, we need info from CCP Using a resistance rig and a hardener has the same stacking penalty as using 2 hardeners or 1 hardener and 1 EANM for instance. Soon as you use 1 resistance increasing thingie the 2nd you gonna use are gonna have stacking penalties.
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:03:00 - [9] That is not true on armor rigs, I am sure 100% about that. And I can give you an example: My abaddon has 3 armor rigs and when I add my 4 hardeners for each resistance, they do exactly as said on their attribute, it is not divided by half like the shield situation. So why would CCP allow it on armor and not on shield, makes no sense. Now, I agree with you there is a stacking penalty on two armor hardeners but NOT on armor rig and armor hardener, try, you'll see.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Joebarchuck It has come to my attention today as I was fitting my ship that shield hardeners only give half of what they are supposed to. This problem is recent less than a month as I check often: Here is an example: My ship has the following base shield resistance: EM 30 Exp 60 Kin 40 Ther 20 The reason for the 30 in the EM is because I have a EM rig with a signature bonus drawback. The test I have done is with an Invunerability field I which should bring 25%. so my new EM should be 100-30 = 70 then 100 - (70* 0.75) = 47.5%. Well I only get half of that, as I get 38.75% which is exactly 12.5% increase in resistance thus half of the 25%. My problem gives the same results on my brother's account so it is just not me. Please, help me notify this asap or let me have an explanation. Thank you. your brain isn't working anymore. shield rigs work just fine. as do regular shield resist mods. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place!

Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:06:00 - [11] Before calling someone stupid, read the post and calculate then bring controversial ideas and facts to prove wrong and we will listen. We are not talking about RIG, stupid.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 26/02/2007 12:10:32 Originally by: Joebarchuck Before calling someone stupid, read the post and calculate then bring controversial ideas and facts to prove wrong and we will listen. We are not talking about RIG, stupid. I thought we were talking about rigs... Either way, unless you show some screenies of your situation, which modules, which rigs and the resistances, it's hard to judge what's going on. This thread has some more info on rigs and resist stacking. PS: the 'stupid' part in his post is his signature.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:14:00 - [13] You are wrong in all shield related exclamations, questions and assumptions... And by having came up with multiple very wrong statements people is starting to flame you a bit and make fun of you... Shield resist rig work exactly as a passive T1 shield amplifier (though compensation skills will not affect rigs). every single time you add (after having taken ship boni into account) more than 1 x resist on a damage type you will get a stacking penalty... this goes for both shield resist rigs, resist amplifiers and hardeners (incl. inv. fields) Pinky Denmark
storm2k5	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Joebarchuck Even if they do there should not be any penalty for using one. And why do armor rigs not affect my armor hardeners? Something does not make sense, we need info from CCP It makes perfect sense. And yes, armor rigs are stacking nerfed with armor hardeners. Just calc it all again, before you call ppl stupid pls. /storm
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Joebarchuck Even if they do there should not be any penalty for using one. And why do armor rigs not affect my armor hardeners? Something does not make sense, we need info from CCP Wtf? If there was no penalty for a second Invul, BoB would have twin Estamel's on their Titan
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:31:00 - [16] Sorry if it is the signature but there is not line separating it from the post so it is hard to know The situation is very simple let me explain maybe I will get answers: My Abaddon: Base armor resistance with my 3 armor rigs are as follow with 4 hardeners turned off: EM: 68.04 Exp: 56.12 Kin: 58.87 The: 63.34 When all 4 modules are turned on (n-Type: 50% resistance, I get the following figures: EM: 83 Exp: 74.86 Kin: 76.5 The: 79.6 If you make the calculation for Exp and Kin which I have rigs, you get the following: 100-56.12 = 43.88 * 0.5 = 21.94 - 100 = 78.06% resistance. (NOTE: the difference in between the calculation and my actual ship is 78.06 - 74.86 = 3.2% which is explained by the 6% bonus I have when the module is passive which was included in the base calculation) Therefore, for armor rigs and armor hardeners, there is no penalty. WHY would CCP put one for shields?
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Edit: calculation you get 30% from the rig (no penalty here as we are using 1 inv. field for the experiment) and then add the 25% from the inv. field I. start resits (EM): 0% resist After rig (100 x 0,30 = 0,30) : 30% resist After Inv. Field I (70 x 0,25 = 0,175) : 47,5% resist Stacking penalty 1st module (0,125 x 0,175 = -0,02) : 45,5% resist Am I close? Damn, you beat me to it. However, I get a slightly different value to you: 30 + (70(0.250.875)) = 45.3 I think the OP has missed out some info he's not telling us as I can't see how he's getting 38.75% with one 30% EM rig and one T1 Invulnerability field.
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:33:00 - [18] try check my few questions for you I edited in my post - might be wrong, but then it is only suggestions to find the "bug". Pinky
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:33:00 - [19] Edited by: Dark Flare on 26/02/2007 12:30:03 Originally by: Joebarchuck Therefore, for armor rigs and armor hardeners, there is no penalty. WHY would CCP put one for shields? 3 T2 invuls + 1 T1 invul would give you 105% resistances. Drake that damages the opponent when it shoots him?
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 26/02/2007 12:27:21 Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 26/02/2007 12:17:47 You are wrong in all shield related exclamations, questions and assumptions... And by having came up with multiple very wrong statements people is starting to flame you a bit and make fun of you... Shield resist rig work exactly as a passive T1 shield amplifier (though compensation skills will not affect rigs). every single time you add (after having taken ship boni into account) more than 1 x resist on a damage type you will get a stacking penalty... this goes for both shield resist rigs, resist amplifiers and hardeners (incl. inv. fields) Pinky Denmark Edit: calculation you get 30% from the rig (no penalty here as we are using 1 inv. field for the experiment) and then add the 25% from the inv. field I. start resits (EM): 0% resist After rig (100 x 0,30 = 0,30) : 30% resist After Inv. Field I (70 x 0,25 = 0,175) : 47,5% resist Stacking penalty 1st module (0,125 x 0,175 = -0,02) : 45,5% resist (perhaps if I used correct numbers) QUESTION: Do you have some shield compensation skills trained? do you realize you cannot see final resistance of your ship wit active hardeners using the fitting screen? Have you undocked, activated hardeners and checked info to see your real resistance? Could it be that you were lazy and only saw the passive resistance from offline invulnerability field being applied in fitting screen as you cannot activate hardeners while docked? Am I even close? Pinky First, I am not lazy or I would not write all of this. You are entirely right on the numbers with shield rigs and Invu I but still the penalty does not apply on armor rigs and hardeners. I have redone all calculations and tried many different fitting, everytime with armor, there is no stacking penalty (rigs and hardeners). I find it not fair...

Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Dark Flare Edited by: Dark Flare on 26/02/2007 12:30:03 Originally by: Joebarchuck Therefore, for armor rigs and armor hardeners, there is no penalty. WHY would CCP put one for shields? 3 T2 invuls + 1 T1 invul would give you 105% resistances. That is not true, remember that the resistance from mods, rigs is deducted from the damage part meaning if you have 50% resistance and you have a mod which adds 50% you get 25% + 50% = 75% resistance total. You can never go over 97% resistance. Drake that damages the opponent when it shoots him?
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:44:00 - [22] Try read the sticky in this forum - A guy using armor rigs/hardeners as an example kind of proves the stacking penalty... I'm pretty sure
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:44:00 - [23] You just asked why there's a penalty, and I told you
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.26 12:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Joebarchuck Sorry if it is the signature but there is not line separating it from the post so it is hard to know The situation is very simple let me explain maybe I will get answers: My Abaddon: Base armor resistance with my 3 armor rigs are as follow with 4 hardeners turned off: EM: 68.04 Exp: 56.12 Kin: 58.87 The: 63.34 When all 4 modules are turned on (n-Type: 50% resistance, I get the following figures: EM: 83 Exp: 74.86 Kin: 76.5 The: 79.6 If you make the calculation for Exp and Kin which I have rigs, you get the following: 100-56.12 = 43.88 * 0.5 = 21.94 - 100 = 78.06% resistance. (NOTE: the difference in between the calculation and my actual ship is 78.06 - 74.86 = 3.2% which is explained by the 6% bonus I have when the module is passive which was included in the base calculation) Therefore, for armor rigs and armor hardeners, there is no penalty. WHY would CCP put one for shields? You forget that the biggest resistance boost gets added first, soon as you turn on your hardeneres they become the biggest and have to be added first to the ship base resist (+ship bonus) and then the rig. For instance thermal, I recalculated your base resist without rigs or hardener fitted as ~50.5. That 50.5 + 50% for the hardener gives ~75.23. Add the 30% rig should then have given ~82. So, you lost about 2-3% to the stacking penalty of the 2nd resist item.
storm2k5	Posted - 2007.02.26 13:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Joebarchuck Originally by: Pinky Denmark Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 26/02/2007 12:27:21 Edited by: Pinky Denmark on 26/02/2007 12:17:47 You are wrong in all shield related exclamations, questions and assumptions... And by having came up with multiple very wrong statements people is starting to flame you a bit and make fun of you... Shield resist rig work exactly as a passive T1 shield amplifier (though compensation skills will not affect rigs). every single time you add (after having taken ship boni into account) more than 1 x resist on a damage type you will get a stacking penalty... this goes for both shield resist rigs, resist amplifiers and hardeners (incl. inv. fields) Pinky Denmark Edit: calculation you get 30% from the rig (no penalty here as we are using 1 inv. field for the experiment) and then add the 25% from the inv. field I. start resits (EM): 0% resist After rig (100 x 0,30 = 0,30) : 30% resist After Inv. Field I (70 x 0,25 = 0,175) : 47,5% resist Stacking penalty 1st module (0,125 x 0,175 = -0,02) : 45,5% resist (perhaps if I used correct numbers) QUESTION: Do you have some shield compensation skills trained? do you realize you cannot see final resistance of your ship wit active hardeners using the fitting screen? Have you undocked, activated hardeners and checked info to see your real resistance? Could it be that you were lazy and only saw the passive resistance from offline invulnerability field being applied in fitting screen as you cannot activate hardeners while docked? Am I even close? Pinky First, I am not lazy or I would not write all of this. You are entirely right on the numbers with shield rigs and Invu I but still the penalty does not apply on armor rigs and hardeners. I have redone all calculations and tried many different fitting, everytime with armor, there is no stacking penalty (rigs and hardeners). I find it not fair... They ARE stacking nerfed (armor rig + hardner)
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.02.26 13:48:00 - [26] Wow, I can't believe someone who can afford the ships and modules you're talking about is even asking these questions... - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Frug Wow, I can't believe someone who can afford the ships and modules you're talking about is even asking these questions... Out of the 169,000 members of Eve, we are not all nerds and some of us have jobs and cannot spend so much time on Eve. + The point of the post was that I may have mis-understood something, nonetheless, it is evident we cannot shield tank as good as armor tanking.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Joebarchuck Also, to answer the second reply, Invu do not have penalty for using more than one. yes they do... like EANs... stacking still works the same Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- <------ Hijack free space :) -----------------
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.26 14:48:00 - [29] So you are saying that you are 100% sure there are no stcing penalties when you are clearly suffering from them? Seems to me then that everyone in the game has been experiencing the same bug for the last three years (that was around about when stacking penalties on hardeners kicked in wasn't it?). You know what they call that sorta bug? a feature.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.26 15:24:00 - [30] Back to the Drake, even when stacking penalties are taking into the calculations, the reduction he's seeing is far to big. It should be less than 25%, but it's shouldn't be half of that when only using 2 resistance thingies.



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