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Termerity Faceturn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.28 20:11:43 -
[1] - Quote
Before I get onto the news, here are the updated basics. Oh, and here is our Twitter account, @CharityCitadel.
Who: Our most notable new addition to the team is the universally trusted broker Chribba who has agreed to hold the CEO spot so he can control all the big isk and can guarantee the project's integrity and neutrality. I, Termerity Faceturn, am the Creator & Lead Diplomat of the project. My main partner is Angelica Everstar, a widely respected and successful trader who has given several talks at Fanfest about the ingame economy.
What: A large (later XL) citadel to be placed in highsec with hopes of becoming the primary market hub in the game. All of the citadel's profits will go to PLEX for GOOD and ingame charities. We'll speak with CCP about bringing in a permanent way of turning PLEX into IRL donations.
When: When the time is right. Defense plans will be finalized and ready beforehand.
Where: Highsec, likely close to Jita.
Why: Player run market hubs will be the most lucrative endeavor in the history of the game. Trillions of isk per month will go to whoever controls the main market hub. Many people rightfully worry that if any competitive group owns the "New Jita" they will essentially 'win Eve' by having such a stranglehold on the economy that they could never be challenged. They could ban anyone they want from trading in the main hub. They could charge insane tax rates and change them at a whim. The metagame would be over. The sandbox would be dead. The only way to avoid that problem is to ensure that a neutral entity runs the main market hub, and their profits go to causes that the entire playerbase can feel comfortable supporting, instead of just making the rich richer. Thus, the beauty of the charity citadel.
New Items
1) The big news is Chribba joining our project. Our project's charitable nature has engendered a lot of interest and has made people pre-emptively declare that they'll support and use our citadel simply because of our good intentions. Though we greatly admire their generous spirits, we recognize that trust and reliability are hard to come by in New Eden. People like our dream, but they wanted a more concrete reason to trust us. What more concrete reason could there be than knowing that we have the support of the most universally trusted person in the game? Chribba will be the citadel holding company's CEO and he will have sole control over the master wallet, which is where the citadel tax revenues will go. He will be in charge of holding onto the isk and buying PLEX when required and keeping it safe. His reputation for integrity and neutrality are unquestioned and we look forward to accomplishing a lot together.
2) In the previous thread, people were concerned about our organization buying and owning so much PLEX, which effects CCP's IRL corporate finances, which is a serious thing. We understand the gravity of that issue are are in communication with CCP on that issue to see what we can do to keep things simple and positive for the both of us.
3) So as to avoid any worries about us 'manipulating' the PLEX market by buying and selling at strategic times, Chribba will be in charge of when we buy PLEX and how much, and if it seems like a good idea we will introduce a random element into the process so even we won't know beforehand when and how much we'll buy.
4) Spreading the isk out to several other worthwhile groups like charity fleet fights or titan kills could stimulate a lot of interesting content as well as help others. We could be an engine of nonstop content creation, not something that will cause less conflict, which is what some people fear. We believe in this positive and helpful cause, but we are 100% in lockstep with the Eve community's pride in constant conflict and never resting on our laurels. We may indeed turn out to be a driver of conflict from one end of the cluster to another. If that's what you want, it's what we want. A competitive group holding the main trade hub is what would lead to an Eve without conflict, because they would use their resources and administrative tricks solely for their selfish benefit and soon gain so much wealth and power over the economy that no one could dare challenge them again. Not what anyone wants, is it?
THE COALITION OF THE CHARITABLE
Right now our primary goal is diplomatic, to build an official list of groups who will pledge to defend the charity citadel, and in doing so directly help real people both in and out of the game. If you've ever hoped you could rally under the banner of something truly good and noble in this game, this is what you've been waiting for. Every corp or alliance, no matter how big or small, can become an official member and be listed on the charity citadel's website (which is underway). Your duty would simply be to join the citadel's side in all wars it may have declared upon it, and ping your members when an attack is underway or imminent. We'll only bring you in when necessary.
If your group wishes to join the Coalition of the Charitable, please let us know here or contact Termerity Faceturn ingame. That also goes with any donations of isk, items, or volunteering you would like to offer to this noble cause. This is the kind of thing that doesn't come around very often, an altruistic endeavour in a cutthroat game. Go against the grain and be someone. You'll be proud of the part you play in what comes next. Jump in. o7
$$$: If you are a respected mercenary group or efficient highsec wardec group who wishes to help out and make some high quality isk while doing so, be in touch, we will pay well for good work. ;)
Finally: I've re-opened the project's public ingame chat channel "Charity Citadel". |
Robby Rova
Rova Capital
4
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Posted - 2016.05.28 21:00:11 -
[2] - Quote
This is an awesome idea. Getting Chribba was huge for it to come to fruition - giving it much needed reputation. It seems most of the details are worked out so there's not to much to discuss here, it will be very interesting to see how this goes. |
Termerity Faceturn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.28 22:00:45 -
[3] - Quote
Robby Rova wrote:This is an awesome idea. Getting Chribba was huge for it to come to fruition - giving it much needed reputation. It seems most of the details are worked out so there's not to much to discuss here, it will be very interesting to see how this goes.
We're very excited too! I know a charity project isn't the sexiest thing on this board, what with the trillion isk bonds and all that, but I'm not really interested in space money, except space money that can be used to make real people a little happier. I see a lot of potential to do good, and that's what drives me. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2521
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 07:24:31 -
[4] - Quote
Things have changed since the patch, lot of market hubs are available and they are uncontested (nobody bothers). This means competition and makes sure no single entity grabs the market so far. Which is good, and allows to show CCP that there will not be a player-run Jita 4-4 replacement with the in-game mechanics. Your project now tries to establish a monopoly and exploits out-of-game charity to get the competetive advantage. Why do you think this is a good move?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5826
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Posted - 2016.05.29 10:20:38 -
[5] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Things have changed since the patch, lot of market hubs are available and they are uncontested (nobody bothers). This means competition and makes sure no single entity grabs the market so far. Which is good, and allows to show CCP that there will not be a player-run Jita 4-4 replacement with the in-game mechanics. Your project now tries to establish a monopoly and exploits out-of-game charity to get the competetive advantage. Why do you think this is a good move?
I agree with this.
The idea seems good at first and the cause definitely is. However I feel this actually threatens the integrity of EVE as a sandbox game.
Risk versus reward is fundamental to EVE, and the lower taxes of Citadels are balanced against higher risk - risk in the form of the Citadel operator abruptly changing broker taxes, or in the form of the Citadel being blown up and all broker fees paid for market orders there lost, as well as the possibility of assets there being locked up in 'safety'.
This proposal removes the risks via two out-of-game mechanisms - CCP enforced anti-scamming rules, and loyalty to the Citadel owners that comes from out-of-game actions.
It thus creates a market noone can compete with at all.
For what it is worth, I would hold the same reservations if CCP announced a "Donate IRL $$$ to charity X, and we will give 1 trillion ISK and 10 T2 BPOs to the person that donates the largest sum of money". It's not in line with the methods used for PLEX for Good. Even though it can have very positive IRL results, it jeapordizes EVE's integrity, IMO.
Just a note - if this happens, given that noone can realistically destroy the citadel in question, expect a campaign of ganking targetting clients that are flying to or from the citadel.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Investor Joe
Litla Sundlaugin
22
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Posted - 2016.05.29 13:03:38 -
[6] - Quote
might be an unpopular opinion but anyone else feels like there is way to much charity stuff going on in eve?
this a video game, not a charity fund |
Ruumi Yyrkoshin
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 13:24:08 -
[7] - Quote
This is a fantastic idea. It should provide with the option to play a game AND do something good at the same time. A few months back I was starting up a thing to make ISK with industry and trading. I was doing well enough until I realized I won't ever find the time to blow up the ISK I earn in PvP. Also, the release of Citadels and the increase in PvE taxes got me thinking of getting out of PvE stations. So I stopped that enterprise. The Charity Citadel initiative already has me thinking how I could contribute to it, or at least re-animate the trade thing and move to this citadel once it anchors.
The only thing remotely "wrong" with this initiative is that is motivated by out-of-game reasons, how ever good these might be. Maybe somehow relating it to the Sisters of Eve organization, or finding some other way to have a tie-in to the EvE lore keeps the immersion up.
The only question remains is, why didn't I think of something like this?
I really hope this Citadel becomes a success. |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 14:05:48 -
[8] - Quote
If Chribba agrees to become CEO of every Highsec Citadel which sets itself up as a verified charitable organisation, then perhaps the playing field will become a level one - taxes and other details excepted. But of course, he will not do so.
This plan also hints at the possible threat of a stealth nerf to Highsec ganking. Carebears plying to and fro on PLEX business may well find themselves drawing the attention of the ganking community, as Sabriz Adoudel has pointed out. They will scream loudly that they have been ganked while on charitable business, and that CCP should protect them, in this particular instance.
Any corporation or alliance undertaking ganking activities in connection with Chribba's edifice risks the very real possibility of being wardecced by an uncontrollably large portion of the the EVE Playerbase, motivated by a real-life sense of moral superiority. Any idea of balance would be tossed out of the window.
It might also immediately and dangerously demonise the gankers. This is acceptable in the cut-and-thrust of current EVE Online play, but would stray perilously close to becoming a license to harass in the event of the moral majority gaining such a doomsday weapon.
I think CCP will need to consider very carefully the possible consequences of permitting such an endeavour. They may come back with some conditions which will make it more feasible.
I would just say to those who have misgivings about the enterprise; don't be afraid to voice your opposition. I can already see the Angels of EVE trying to put us on a guilt-trip if we so much as whisper against it.
Because I object to the current plan means neither that I would object to something more sensible nor that I am opposed to the giving of charity.
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Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
933
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 14:47:42 -
[9] - Quote
Investor Joe wrote:might be an unpopular opinion but anyone else feels like there is way to much charity stuff going on in eve?
this a video game, not a charity fund
I think its great that people can do what they want
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2016.05.29 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Karen Avioras wrote:Investor Joe wrote:might be an unpopular opinion but anyone else feels like there is way to much charity stuff going on in eve?
this a video game, not a charity fund I think its great that people can do what they want
Except that 'what they want' can lead to all sorts of problems. Of course, you meant in-game, didn't you? |
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Areen Sassel
112
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Posted - 2016.05.29 15:30:40 -
[11] - Quote
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:Any corporation or alliance undertaking ganking activities in connection with Chribba's edifice risks the very real possibility of being wardecced by an uncontrollably large portion of the the EVE Playerbase, motivated by a real-life sense of moral superiority. Any idea of balance would be tossed out of the window.
Wardecs wouldn't make a difference - ganking alts are free-fire targets 99% of the time anyway; but I think you have a legitimate concern that it might provide a massive out-of-game motivation for in-game activities.
That said, and I'm not saying he _isn't_ involved, but I ain't seen anything from Chribba to say he is... |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 15:47:58 -
[12] - Quote
Areen Sassel wrote:
That said, and I'm not saying he _isn't_ involved, but I ain't seen anything from Chribba to say he is...
It's on Reddit, item 9 at the moment.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2521
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 16:33:45 -
[13] - Quote
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:Areen Sassel wrote:
That said, and I'm not saying he _isn't_ involved, but I ain't seen anything from Chribba to say he is...
It's on Reddit, item 9 at the moment.
No post from Chribba in the thread. Usually Chribba immediately confirms claims of his involvement in the forum. I'm surprised too, that this did not happen yet ... until then, we have only the words of OP's freshly created forum posting alt.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
311
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Posted - 2016.05.29 18:08:54 -
[14] - Quote
Using charity and chribba to get on top of the "Market Hub Trade Wars" .. This is worse than gamling sites.
I doubt Chribba is supporting this, and if he is its likely he has not been explained what the whole thing is about..
Also as a Charity how on earth are you going to potentially fund content/wars in game? Charities are supposed to be neutral..
and there is no way in Hell CCP are going to support or protect this project.. If they do I will eat my hat live on stream! |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
51
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Posted - 2016.05.29 18:11:12 -
[15] - Quote
Prove that Chribba is involved. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
892
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 18:17:26 -
[16] - Quote
My view is that, if it cannot be scammed because it is PLEX4GOOD, then you do not need Chribba.
Anyone can set up a citadel, call it "All Profits to PLEX4GOOD" and they would not be able to scam with it. Why is yours special?
Say it is successful, and becomes the "new jita" (if we are buying into hysteria), then, people will be forced to donate whether they like it or not, as, good luck buying moon materials outside of 4-4 in any volume at the moment.
" We may indeed turn out to be a driver of conflict from one end of the cluster to another. If that's what you want, it's what we want."
Who is "you"? If all your profits are going to charity, how will you justify this? If someone offers to move their business to you and send hundreds of billions per month through you, in return for you "driving conflict" with whoever their current enemy is, will you say yes?
There are already plenty of ingame methods that people can use their isk for good with, whether that be the Angel Project, or Care4Kids. Your marketing implies that only through using your citadel will you be able to be one of the "good guys"
Further, your replies on reddit seem to be based on saying anyone who doesn't agree with you just does not want anyone to do any good in Eve, and, that you are a good person.
No one is questioning Chribbas integrity, no one cares if you are a good person or not, what is a major concern is, if it is so bad to have an active alliance owning a citadel, why is it any different regardless of who owns it?
He who pays the piper calls the tune and whatnot, and, you aim to be able to rival IWI in terms of availability of ISK.
"Charity wars" up next in eve?
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Ukio Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 18:22:52 -
[17] - Quote
So correct me if im wrong.
You plan to pull out a couple tril od isk a month out of broker fees and tax, isk that currently vanishes from the market to npc wallets, and then pump that isk back into the economy to buy plex and increase the demand for it by about 1/4 and expect the price of plex to not skyrocket? Nobody in their Right mind will support this unless they sell plexes or have a huge stack.
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Plleasure Hub
Municorn
109
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Posted - 2016.05.29 20:17:29 -
[18] - Quote
There are some great points brought up in this thread. I agree that it is a little creepy to imagine a huge market hub branded under the banner of charity. Human nature would put doubt in the mind of would-be attackers that they might be doing something wrong IRL by assaulting a "charity". The social connotations are too thick to ignore. It brings too much real-life stuff into our fantasy space universe.
People can already use their IRL money to buy PLEX and donate them to PLEX4GOOD. We don't need an in-game, targetable structure for this type of charity. It might do some good in the immediate future to raise funds, but it could threaten the integrity of the game itself. Sacrifice your IRL monies for good causes, but don't sacrifice EVE. EVE is much harder to replace, and its community and unique qualities as they stand bring value to the world, too.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
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Karin Yang
Riemannian Manifold Torus
32
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Posted - 2016.05.29 20:19:57 -
[19] - Quote
Just do it, and then you will find out that you cannot make 1 trillion per month. not even 100 billion. "The most lucrative endeavor in the history of the game" is still running a casino. You'd better run a casino for good, or CHARITY CASINO and let Chribba being the CEO |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
881
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Posted - 2016.05.29 21:14:42 -
[20] - Quote
How come none of the people you've mentioned as being involved have confirmed their support yet?
The whole idea leaves a bad taste in my mouth, with the funds not going 100% to PLEX for Good, the risk that backhanders will be paid to friends or enemies, the potential to guilt trip people who attack the citadel and your claim that a single entity owning the trade hub to fund their wars is bad, unless the entity is you. |
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
246
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Posted - 2016.05.29 21:21:10 -
[21] - Quote
So post and topic removed, as well as Charity Citadel corp closed. Nothing has yet been announced from Chribba...
Project closed? Not sure if fishy or not. I thought the initial idea was quite cool, even if it would inflate the PLEX price.
Anyway, if you used the setup to get investors and now run with the money, you should just be banned for scamming using the PLEX 4 GOOD.
Looking forward to see where this is going. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
311
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 21:33:45 -
[22] - Quote
"Say What one more time" |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2016.05.29 22:01:16 -
[23] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Sasha Nemtsov wrote:Areen Sassel wrote:
That said, and I'm not saying he _isn't_ involved, but I ain't seen anything from Chribba to say he is...
It's on Reddit, item 9 at the moment. No post from Chribba in the thread. Usually Chribba immediately confirms claims of his involvement in the forum. I'm surprised too, that this did not happen yet ... until then, we have only the words of OP's freshly created forum posting alt.
Thanks, Tipa; I didn't read the Reddit post correctly. My apologies for unwittingly misleading folks.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5830
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Posted - 2016.05.30 11:07:17 -
[24] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:So post and topic removed, as well as Charity Citadel corp closed. Nothing has yet been announced from Chribba...
Project closed? Not sure if fishy or not. I thought the initial idea was quite cool, even if it would inflate the PLEX price.
Anyway, if you used the setup to get investors and now run with the money, you should just be banned for scamming using the PLEX 4 GOOD.
Looking forward to see where this is going.
TBH it may well not have been 'suspicious' but either Chribba or the OP may have reconsidered the plan after seeing objections. It was even polarizing on Reddit.
FWIW I'd be 100% behind an entity (alliance, trader, corp, whatever) setting up a Citadel as a competitive market for themselves then announcing "July 14th-22nd all proceeds from this Citadel will be used to fund a charity roam (with the Citadel owners buying ridiculous ships for the participants, then sending them off to lose them in hilarious fashions while streaming it and soliciting donations to IRL charities). I was part of "Suicide Gank 4 GOOD" which was somewhat similar to this although linked to a PLEX 4 GOOD appeal.
It's the permanence that I have issues with. Both the permanent CCP enforced "this corporation cannot scam" and the permanent "if you attack this structure you are bad IRL" guilttripping.
OP - If you do set up a Fortizar for yourself and want to set up a temporary charity event, let me know and I'll be in.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
892
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 12:45:41 -
[25] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Maekchu wrote:So post and topic removed, as well as Charity Citadel corp closed. Nothing has yet been announced from Chribba...
Project closed? Not sure if fishy or not. I thought the initial idea was quite cool, even if it would inflate the PLEX price.
Anyway, if you used the setup to get investors and now run with the money, you should just be banned for scamming using the PLEX 4 GOOD.
Looking forward to see where this is going. TBH it may well not have been 'suspicious' but either Chribba or the OP may have reconsidered the plan after seeing objections. It was even polarizing on Reddit. FWIW I'd be 100% behind an entity (alliance, trader, corp, whatever) setting up a Citadel as a competitive market for themselves then announcing "July 14th-22nd all proceeds from this Citadel will be used to fund a charity roam (with the Citadel owners buying ridiculous ships for the participants, then sending them off to lose them in hilarious fashions while streaming it and soliciting donations to IRL charities). I was part of "Suicide Gank 4 GOOD" which was somewhat similar to this although linked to a PLEX 4 GOOD appeal. It's the permanence that I have issues with. Both the permanent CCP enforced "this corporation cannot scam" and the permanent "if you attack this structure you are bad IRL" guilttripping. OP - If you do set up a Fortizar for yourself and want to set up a temporary charity event, let me know and I'll be in.
I agree, it is not the "Profits that go to PLEX4GOOD" per s+¬ that is the problem, it is the effective CCP endorsement of a player structure, and the permanence, along with the guilt tripping that is the problem.
Most of the critics have, in one form or another taken part in charitable stuff throughout Eve, so we are not objecting to that.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Termerity Faceturn
Charity Citadel
4
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Posted - 2016.05.30 14:58:47 -
[26] - Quote
The project is still very much on, and in fact is on the cusp of even greater growth. If anyone actually doubts Chribba's involvement, feel free to contact him yourselves. I removed the posts here because there are more... effective ways of reaching the EVE playerbase.
Anyone who has genuine, intelligent questions or interest in the project can follow the project's Twitter @CharityCitadel.
Interesting how the official forums for every MMO exhibit the same... traits.  |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
252
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 15:16:28 -
[27] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Anyone who has genuine, intelligent questions or interest in the project can follow the project's Twitter @CharityCitadel. Interesting how the official forums for every MMO exhibit the same... traits.
Yeah, I was indeed checking your twitter, but no announcements have been made on the topic on why the corp was closed and why this post was deleted.
While my initial post may have come across a bit provocative, it still had a genuine question on what the hell happened to the project. I think that is a valid question, given the closure of both the corp and this thread, with no response on your part what-so-ever. Given this projects scope and influence on both EvE and the real world, I hope you can see the interest and concern from people following the progress of the Charity Citadel.
I'm not sure it's a great thing to insult people, just because you didn't do a great PR work yourself. All this could have been avoided if you would have communicated properly on what is happening. |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2016.05.30 15:21:24 -
[28] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:The project is still very much on, and in fact is on the cusp of even greater growth. If anyone actually doubts Chribba's involvement, feel free to contact him yourselves. I removed the posts here because there are more... effective ways of reaching the EVE playerbase. Anyone who has genuine, intelligent questions or interest in the project can follow the project's Twitter @CharityCitadel. Interesting how the official forums for every MMO exhibit the same... traits.
Termerity, I am opposed to the proposal, as it currently stands. Does that mean that my interest is false or that I lack intelligence?
The opinions of those who don't rush to support you may in fact be helpful in pointing up potential and potentially damaging conflicts of purpose.
Even if you, in your majesty, do not consider the EVE Forums worthy of your engagement, CCP certainly does. You will probably require some assistance from them in ensuring the success of your venture. Best be diplomatic, no? Better surely to answer your critics where you find them, and with wise words and cogent explanations, than to dictate whence they should follow you in order to gain a hearing.
If your kind of charity is the sort which craves public adulation , perhaps it would be better to place it where all good charity should begin - at home, among these Forums.
I do not doubt for one moment that you believe fervently in what you're trying to achieve. I'm only surprised at the arrogance of someone who preaches 'charity' but shows so little of it to his fellow players.
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Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
892
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Posted - 2016.05.30 15:51:02 -
[29] - Quote
I have no doubt that you fervently, truly, zealously believe that you are saving Eve from the greater evil of a New Jita, as outlined in the nightmare scenario which inspired you to do the charity citadel. (So, please do not pretend it is charity which is driving you, it is the fear on a blog of some big alliance running a New Jita)
Dismissing anyone who has concerns about the project as false or unintelligent is, well, not very charitable.
You have not answered key questions, either here or on Reddit, your standard reply is "I am a good person, CCP will protect you all from scams, and anyone who doubts me is bad".
So, do you actually have answers to questions and concerns, or are you planning on just batting them around and hoping no one reads them?
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Plleasure Hub
Municorn
110
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Posted - 2016.05.30 16:51:31 -
[30] - Quote
+1 to the sentiment that we are not completely against an idea like this, but the permanence and totality of a charity citadel. It is one thing if you were using Chribba to supervise the funding of a new neutral Citadel, which will donate 1-10% of its earnings to charity, or something along those lines. But the way you have laid it out, this venture is the most extreme version, being 100% charity-focused. You leave no room for doubt that attacking such a venture in any way would cause direct harm to its charitable giving. Add to that the fact that you are doing all of this inside a fantasy space MMO, blurring the lines between a thriving fiction and the real world. That is not inherently a bad thing, but it can be, even if your intentions are good.
These are legitimate concerns from good people, and your dismissive attitude is unwarranted. You should take the time to openly consider intelligent criticism, as doing so could ensure the success of the project and perhaps mold it into an even better model. I am sure that many critics in this thread are good people. Personally, I love giving back to the community and aiding charitable organizations. IRL, I am volunteering countless hours building information systems for my local library.
Frankly, I think it is the fact that we do care about charities that has us so concerned. I would feel terrible organizing a fleet assault on a purely charitable citadel. You need to find a happy medium where you can effectively raise funds for PLEX4GOOD without making the droves of us with hearts feel guilty for out-of-game reasons about targeting the wrong citadel.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
15371
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Posted - 2016.05.30 17:01:41 -
[31] - Quote
Just to confirm that I've been asked to hold the CEO position of the Citadel owning corporation to ensure that the ISK goes to the right places and that suddenly docking rights etc change without prior notice.
Sorry for the delay, I'm on vacation atm
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
|
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Areen Sassel
112
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:12:05 -
[32] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Just to confirm that I've been asked to hold the CEO position of the Citadel owning corporation to ensure that the ISK goes to the right places and that suddenly docking rights etc change without prior notice.
Not your fault, but it is rather unfortunate that your partner threw a tantrum in the few days before you made this post.
When you have time I would be grateful if you would sum up your understanding of the project. |
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
312
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:34:57 -
[33] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:The project is still very much on, and in fact is on the cusp of even greater growth. If anyone actually doubts Chribba's involvement, feel free to contact him yourselves. I removed the posts here because there are more... effective ways of reaching the EVE playerbase. Anyone who has genuine, intelligent questions or interest in the project can follow the project's Twitter @CharityCitadel. Interesting how the official forums for every MMO exhibit the same... traits.
I am sure that kind of arrogance will get the MD very friendly..
Good luck with your borderline scammy project. The fact that you got Chribba on as a standard 3rd party service means very little to people in here..
Your not just handing over a Capital ship, or securing collateral.. Your using the Chribba name, and charity to paint a BIG "Red Cross" on an admitted future War Funding Machine!
and CCP will never guarantee anti-scamming, especially not from a potentially not really neutral body.
Your attempt to monopolize the Citadel Market Hub Wars, via goodwill, charity and the Chribba brand is not working on me, I find it offensive against anything that is financial PVP.
|
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
312
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:38:47 -
[34] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Just to confirm that I've been asked to hold the CEO position of the Citadel owning corporation to ensure that the ISK goes to the right places and that suddenly docking rights etc change without prior notice.
Sorry for the delay, I'm on vacation atm
/c
This project is NOT your average 3rd party service.. I hope you consider how your Brand is being used to basically promote a service, that was admitted is potentially NOT neutral at all.
So Unless you Chribba with the CEO post, and ofc Shares Majority on hand, promise oversight in the form of proper audits, then you should really reconsider lending your name to this thing..
No audits, no oversight, no trust.. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2522
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:44:28 -
[35] - Quote
The OP's replies show an unhealthy amount of arrogance for being the to-be market and charity leader of New Eden.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12199
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:46:07 -
[36] - Quote
I can just see it in the overview now
"Ricdic Citadel"
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Termerity Faceturn
Charity Citadel
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 17:49:56 -
[37] - Quote
Areen Sassel wrote:Not your fault, but it is rather unfortunate that your partner threw a tantrum in the few days before you made this post.
A long time ago someone realized and shared the simple fact that 1+1=2. Was he throwing a tantrum for recognizing and stating a plain and obvious fact? It appears some here would make such a disingenuous assertion. Thank them for the reaction you'll get from most EVE players when you even bring up the topic of the official forums: laughter and derisive mockery and laughter and horror stories and laughter.
All mature people who wish to engage in meaningful conversation, see my signature, join us there and I'll be more than happy to engage in discussion with those who are actually interested in things like facts and reason. I answer all questions and welcome all criticisms there, where it's actually worth it.
If you want worthwhile EVE Online discussion in a relevant place: r/Eve on Reddit
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
313
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:
This is priceless...
I cant defend my idea to people that do markets as primary thing in EVE, so come to retardit and post where they can be trolled and downvoted to the max..
How about you answer peoples legit questions instead of this pathetic obfuscation..
Or maybe you can give the same reply as the "Gamblers"; "What is an audit"..
I would guess your financial expert source for the doomsday scenario is Gevlon Goblin..
So the solution to other peoples potential monopoly is to give it to you and chribba? I think I would like to say no thanks, and keep a competition based market..
As pretty much always Gevlon is WRONG, and this idea is a horrible attempt to get ahead on scaremongering, and other peoples long developed brands..
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Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
897
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:18:11 -
[39] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Areen Sassel wrote:Not your fault, but it is rather unfortunate that your partner threw a tantrum in the few days before you made this post. A long time ago someone realized and shared the simple fact that 1+1=2. Was he throwing a tantrum for recognizing and stating a plain and obvious fact? It appears some here would make such a disingenuous assertion. Thank them for the reaction you'll get from most EVE players when you even bring up the topic of the official forums: laughter and derisive mockery and laughter and horror stories and laughter. All mature people who wish to engage in meaningful conversation, see my signature, join us there and I'll be more than happy to engage in discussion with those who are actually interested in things like facts and reason. I answer all questions and welcome all criticisms there, where it's actually worth it.
Will you actually answer my questions on reddit then, as you are avoiding them here.
Also, while you have obviously surveyed eve players, did you ask them for their views on Reddit as a platform for intelligent discourse about Eve.
In case it is difficult to find my questions on reddit, which I assume it must be, as the fact is that you have answered 0 of them, here they are again in short bullet form:
1: When you talk about funding charitable wars, who is the "You" who you will listen to? Will it be whoever has funded you the most that month? If someone pays you 100b in broker fees per month, and asks that you do a charity invasion of an area, would you do it?
2: If the owner of the perimeter citadel changed the name to "All profits to PLEX4GOOD" would you throw your support behind them? If not, why not? If GSF opened a charity citadel, would you also throw your support behind that?
3: Have you had anything close to confirmation from CCP about their endorsement?
4: Will your hub be close enough to 4-4 to allow for offshoring
5: Assume you take over the New Eden economy (as stated in the opening section of your post), how will players who do not wish to pay their broker fees to charity be able to get a refund, will they be able to pay 0% fees, as, if you become the "New Jita" (copyright Gevlon 2016), players will have no choice but to use your citadel.
6: Have you dropped your original idea to fund "neutral service corps", and if not, how are you defining these?
7: You namedrop a lot of charities (although, B4R is not an ingame charity), do you have statements from the people who run these charities.
8: Can I as a trader choose which charities my ISK goes to?
EDIT: One final question, you have followed the rules for P4G by doing this? "In order to register your intent to host a fund raising drive, you must create a thread on the In game events and gatherings forum, prefixed with the tag "PLEX for GOOD" in the subject, detailing the charity drive, and file a Support Ticket under the Community category for approval. The event may only go ahead once approval has been given by the Community Team."
https://web.archive.org/web/20160222095836/https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PLEX_for_GOOD
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:18:50 -
[40] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Areen Sassel wrote:Not your fault, but it is rather unfortunate that your partner threw a tantrum in the few days before you made this post. A long time ago someone realized and shared the simple fact that 1+1=2. Was he throwing a tantrum for recognizing and stating a plain and obvious fact? It appears some here would make such a disingenuous assertion. Thank them for the reaction you'll get from most EVE players when you even bring up the topic of the official forums: laughter and derisive mockery and laughter and horror stories and laughter. All mature people who wish to engage in meaningful conversation, see my signature, join us there and I'll be more than happy to engage in discussion with those who are actually interested in things like facts and reason. I answer all questions and welcome all criticisms there, where it's actually worth it.
Why is criticism and question worth more there than here....especially since they would be the same questions and criticisms? Of course the obvious question becomes why did you post here at all if the official forums are trash? |
|
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:29:11 -
[41] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Areen Sassel wrote:Not your fault, but it is rather unfortunate that your partner threw a tantrum in the few days before you made this post. A long time ago someone realized and shared the simple fact that 1+1=2. Was he throwing a tantrum for recognizing and stating a plain and obvious fact? It appears some here would make such a disingenuous assertion. Thank them for the reaction you'll get from most EVE players when you even bring up the topic of the official forums: laughter and derisive mockery and laughter and horror stories and laughter. All mature people who wish to engage in meaningful conversation, see my signature, join us there and I'll be more than happy to engage in discussion with those who are actually interested in things like facts and reason. I answer all questions and welcome all criticisms there, where it's actually worth it.
Yes, but Termerity, these are the official forums for a reason. Official; sanctioned by CCP for the discussion of EVE-related matters, and a reliable destination for many of us.
Your arrogance is really quite breathtaking. You are slandering people like me, calling us immature, liars and cretins.
Please tell me specifically what you regard as wrong with these forums, set up by the makers of EVE Online as a service to the players and a vital communications tool for the developers?
In my time, I've had cause to be disappointed with some aspects of the forums, but I never once doubted their importance or took the opportunity to take a side-swipe at CCP for providing them.
You've handled this issue very poorly Termerity; I would like to see you continue to engage with the player base on these forums; hopefully some good can come of it if you do.
Perhaps you just need to take a deep breath, calm down, and answer your critics politely and sincerely. You're beginning to appear like the Boy Scout who helped the old lady across the road - whether she wanted to cross it or not...
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Cista2
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
244
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:32:52 -
[42] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:All mature people ...join us there
No thanks.
My channel: "Signatures"
-
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12203
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:36:09 -
[43] - Quote
Anyone seriously suggesting that Reddit is a meaningful alternative to the official forums is quite honestly deluded.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
254
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 18:47:36 -
[44] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:All mature people who wish to engage in meaningful conversation, see my signature, join us there and I'll be more than happy to engage in discussion with those who are actually interested in things like facts and reason. I answer all questions and welcome all criticisms there, where it's actually worth it.
While I still support the project itself, I have to say that I don't feel you personality is benefiting the project at all.
I would suggest you find someone else to do the diplomatic/PR work for the Charity Citadel, since I don't believe you are up for the task given the interaction here on the forums. You might still do great managerial work behind the curtains, but if you don't change your way of interacting with the community, I think you will do a lot of bad PR for the project.
I mean, why is it relevant for you to have this Official forums vs reddit discussion at all? You need to use both in order to promote your project, since not all eve players are using reddit and vice versa. Instead you choose to alienate the player base by calling them downright "unintelligent and immature".
Also instead of having a small notice on your twitter regarding the closure and reopening of the Charity Citadel corp, you choose to post some EvE Online vs Reddit propaganda. What relevance does that post have with your project?
Hopefully you will take this as constructive criticism.
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Plleasure Hub
Municorn
111
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 19:09:09 -
[45] - Quote
I am more active on Reddit than these forums, yet my criticisms would be the same on either. Do I really need to copy and paste my posts on your Reddit thread for them to magically become valid in your eyes? As Alexander Hamilton once said, "Don't modulate the key then not debate with me."
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
128
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 19:34:32 -
[46] - Quote
This is a ghastly mess.
I actually visit Reddit regularly; it's where I first saw the proposal published. Naturally, I hurried back over here to get a broader view. I rarely check Twitter.
You know, it's entirely possible that Termerity has gone public with this far sooner than his grasp of the issues involved warranted. It looks as if he's been caught on the hop.
All the blather about Chribba's involvement and discussions with CCP doesn't disguise the fact that, as yet, absolutely nothing is in place. Even Chribba only says he's 'been asked' to hold the CEO spot. He certainly doesn't seem to have confirmed his involvement.
So essentially we have a back-of-the-envelope pipe-dream. The proposer hasn't considered the implications of such a scheme,
nor even treated the player base to the courtesy of a properly prepared rough draft. No wonder he avoids our questions; the answers are not available to him.
I'd like to invite him back here (I assume he's popped over to Reddit, where his star is in the ascendant) to answer the concerns outlined in this thread.
Termerity?
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Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
899
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:02:42 -
[47] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Squish. OP removed. Thread taken over by trolls.
Last word:
Cynicism and anger only thrive in darkness. Yet they will try to drag us down every day.
We who share and volunteer and try to help others must be the light. We must win the day.
Be good. Be right. Believe.
And yet you havent answered any questions, which you said you would.
Although, good job invoking that no one in this thread is involved in helping others.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
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Karin Yang
Riemannian Manifold Torus
33
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:11:27 -
[48] - Quote
 I am happy to see this fortizar. btw WTS Fortizar in Jita, price negotiable. |
Plleasure Hub
Municorn
117
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:16:55 -
[49] - Quote
This is starting to reek of scam. That or OP is simply not ready for a project of this scale. OP refuses to acknowledge legitimate concerns and has resorted to passive aggressive insults, name-calling, and self-righteous rhetoric.
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Squish. OP removed. Thread taken over by trolls.
Last word:
Cynicism and anger only thrive in darkness. Yet they will try to drag us down every day.
We who share and volunteer and try to help others must be the light. We must win the day.
Be good. Be right. Believe.
You're the biggest troll in this thread, OP. Your evasiveness and immature responses should be alarming to any current or prospective investors. If you keep going like this, you will destroy any credibility you have before you even anchor the citadel.
Just in case you aren't running a disgusting scam and are just poorly handling a honest project, let me give you some advice:
- Do not insult the very people that could become your supporters.
- Think before you speak.
- Do not take criticisms as a personal attack. Anything you do publicly will attract criticism. Embrace it and learn to respond in a thoughtful way.
- Do not attack the character of others simply because they disagree with you. I volunteer IRL on a regular basis, and I will continue to do so for the rest of my life, because I care about my community and my fellow man. Yet, I am openly critical of charities that are poorly run or corrupt. They not only exist, but are sadly quite common. Just because you slap the word, "charity" on your project does not mean you can do no wrong. The moment you ask for public support, you are subject to scrutiny. Learn to deal with it if you want to be a leader in the community.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:34:18 -
[50] - Quote
I doubt we'll see Termerity back here to answer questions about his project. It is a shame, because there may be some merit in certain aspects of it. Alas, I haven't time to trawl the social media in order to savour every pious word.
For what it's worth, I've EVEmailed Chribba, thanking him for his earlier intervention in this thread and wishing him a pleasant vacation. I've also invited him not to bother with the rest of my mail until he fully returns to EVE matters.
I've outlined to him my views and concerns, which I hope he'll take in the spirit in which they're offered.
Confession: I'm not a trader of any sort, so I'm very unfamiliar with what I regard as esoteric trading terminology. It seems to me, as a non-trader, that many of the concerns about trading, in connection with a Charity Citadel, are sufficiently serious in themselves to warrant further investigation. This is particularly evident from some of the Reddit responses.
Echoing a previous poster's comment, I think Termerity has simply bitten off more than he can comfortably chew.
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Plleasure Hub
Municorn
118
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:Confession: I'm not a trader of any sort, so I'm very unfamiliar with what I regard as esoteric trading terminology. It seems to me, as a non-trader, that many of the concerns about trading, in connection with a Charity Citadel, are sufficiently serious in themselves to warrant further investigation. This is particularly evident from some of the Reddit responses.
I believe you are referring to the concern that this project would cause a significant rise in PLEX prices. The reason for that is because 100% of the ISK earned by the citadel through broker fees would be spent on PLEX and donated to PLEX4GOOD, removing it from the game.
Here is an analogy to that scenario. The state of Texas starts buying 9 billion barrels of oil a year and lighting them on fire, because for every barrel destroyed, Google agrees to donate $1 to feeding the hungry. Sure, this means that a lot more people will get food that they need. But as a result, gas prices rise 25%, making it harder for everyone to afford to travel. This solves one problem by creating another.
A similar effect could occur in the PLEX market, because tons of ISK would start being spent on PLEX with the intent of destroying said PLEX for charity.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12205
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 20:59:23 -
[52] - Quote
Quote:Cynicism and anger only thrive in darkness. Yet they will try to drag us down every day.
We who share and volunteer and try to help others must be the light. We must win the day.
Be good. Be right. Believe.
Pretentious as ****; and that's saying something, considering my eye apparel. Exceedingly childish, too, given that the OP is basically sticking his/her fingers in her ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOU" whenever someone (like Rhivre, for instance) asks a valid question.
Perhaps Reddit is the best place for this silage heap, after all.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 21:08:15 -
[53] - Quote
Plleasure Hub wrote:Sasha Nemtsov wrote:Confession: I'm not a trader of any sort, so I'm very unfamiliar with what I regard as esoteric trading terminology. It seems to me, as a non-trader, that many of the concerns about trading, in connection with a Charity Citadel, are sufficiently serious in themselves to warrant further investigation. This is particularly evident from some of the Reddit responses. I believe you are referring to the concern that this project would cause a significant rise in PLEX prices. The reason for that is because 100% of the ISK earned by the citadel through broker fees would be spent on PLEX and donated to PLEX4GOOD, removing it from the game. Here is an analogy to that scenario. The state of Texas starts buying 9 billion barrels of oil a year and lighting them on fire, because for every barrel destroyed, Google agrees to donate $1 to feeding the hungry. Sure, this means that a lot more people will get food that they need. But as a result, gas prices rise 25%, making it harder for everyone to afford to travel. This solves one problem by creating another. A similar effect could occur in the PLEX market, because tons of ISK would start being spent on PLEX with the intent of destroying said PLEX for charity.
Thank you, Plleasure Hub! Your analogy was good enough that I grasped it on first reading. The potential for real harm to the game and its players is extremely serious.
I'd be surprised if CCP would even glance at the proposal in its current form. Yet, Termerity implies they're already on board. How can that be?
Wishing to do my duty, I did go to Twitter and make a brief comment. Termerity replied that Chribba is indeed confirmed as CEO. Yet to hear it from the man himself though. Perhaps CCP would also like to comment, since their name has already been linked to the project...? Is there a DEV around?
Some of my colleagues in the 'emergent gameplay' business have posited that changes in game mechanics might be required to make the thing work. If that's the case then this may be a long and very bumpy ride. |
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 21:20:28 -
[54] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Quote:Cynicism and anger only thrive in darkness. Yet they will try to drag us down every day.
We who share and volunteer and try to help others must be the light. We must win the day.
Be good. Be right. Believe. Pretentious as ****; and that's saying something, considering my eye apparel. Exceedingly childish, too, given that the OP is basically sticking his/her fingers in her ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOU" whenever someone (like Rhivre, for instance) asks a valid question. Perhaps Reddit is the best place for this silage heap, after all.
O my, I really did laugh out loud!
I came to the same conclusion as you, after reflecting on the language termerity uses. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being idealistic, but as I found out (as a young man), ideals have to be tested in the real world before they can hope to bear fruit. I think we were simply offering the fruits of some of our experience. The process can often seem brutal.
It's clear from his reactions that Termerity found them so, and hadn't the maturity to respond effectively.
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
314
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 21:31:39 -
[55] - Quote
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:I doubt we'll see Termerity back here to answer questions about his project. It is a shame, because there may be some merit in certain aspects of it. Alas, I haven't time to trawl the social media in order to savour every pious word.
For what it's worth, I've EVEmailed Chribba, thanking him for his earlier intervention in this thread and wishing him a pleasant vacation. I've also invited him not to bother with the rest of my mail until he fully returns to EVE matters.
I've outlined to him my views and concerns, which I hope he'll take in the spirit in which they're offered.
Confession: I'm not a trader of any sort, so I'm very unfamiliar with what I regard as esoteric trading terminology. It seems to me, as a non-trader, that many of the concerns about trading, in connection with a Charity Citadel, are sufficiently serious in themselves to warrant further investigation. This is particularly evident from some of the Reddit responses.
Echoing a previous poster's comment, I think Termerity has simply bitten off more than he can comfortably chew.
The main problem is that OP is running with a fear scenario concocted in the brain of Gevlon Goblin, this fear tactic is not just wrong, its a terrible argument for a Charity oriented Citadel.
There is absolutetely nothing wrong with the Idea of Charity, but OP has done ZERO planing or due diligence, except for poking a few famous people, about funding and "underwriting/security"..
If anyone are genuinely interested in the Charity Concept and Citadels, I suggest they consider talking to some that actually run Citadels, or have a proper business plan for running one. I am sure many would be open to the idea, and do proper audited periods of charity profits, and maybe even donate specif renters office rent specifically to selected charities.. or similar models.. None of such was mentioned in OPs suggestion, though non neutral war/content creation was, which should get anyone even remotely interested in the Charity concept to run away..
So as mentioned I doubt OP will come back and try again, clearly he is not mature enough for a public endeavour of this type, or he might have actually considered who the MD is composed of, and not thrown around personal attacks or even posted such an unfinished BP..
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Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
116
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 22:24:41 -
[56] - Quote
Termerity Faceturn wrote:Squish. OP removed. Thread taken over by trolls.
Last word:
Cynicism and anger only thrive in darkness. Yet they will try to drag us down every day.
We who share and volunteer and try to help others must be the light. We must win the day.
Be good. Be right. Believe.
It's cute that you made your post and expected every poster to pat you on the back and say bravo chap,well done!!! I wonder if you believe you are this holier than thou or if this is some sort of RP act.
Top tip: If you wave a gun at the police and they start shooting at you, that doesn't mean you are "doing something right". |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
882
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 00:04:47 -
[57] - Quote
Plleasure Hub wrote:I believe you are referring to the concern that this project would cause a significant rise in PLEX prices. The reason for that is because 100% of the ISK earned by the citadel through broker fees would be spent on PLEX and donated to PLEX4GOOD, removing it from the game.
A problem I had was that only some of the ISK earned by the citadel would be going to PLEX for Good, while the rest would be used to pay mercenaries to defend the citadel, fund charity events, and even wars ("We may indeed turn out to be a driver of conflict from one end of the cluster to another"). I think without all the funds going to PLEX for Good it's very prone to corruption. Calling it a charity citadel and invoking PLEX for Good seems to me just using charity to further their own goal and let others profit from it too which is against the spirit, and letter, of PLEX for Good |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5835
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 11:16:20 -
[58] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Anyone seriously suggesting that Reddit is a meaningful alternative to the official forums is quite honestly deluded.
EVE Reddit is just pure cancer.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12216
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 17:03:22 -
[59] - Quote
...and it's sickening that CCP is surreptitiously trying to replace the forums for it as the primary means of player-base communication. Shame on them.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5837
|
Posted - 2016.05.31 21:28:52 -
[60] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:...and it's sickening that CCP is surreptitiously trying to replace the forums for it as the primary means of player-base communication. Shame on them.
Which is a bizzare decision that has really backfired on Wizards of the Coast, who replaced their forums with Reddit and now do not have any ability to moderate discussions that end up in shitstorms.
Could you imagine if the CCP Mintchip incident had happened in a world when Reddit had replaced these forums?
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
127
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 13:06:38 -
[61] - Quote
Hate it or not, /r/eve is actually a better place than these forum for many things, especially news. Here, information is scattered all around and you need to spend time to find it. Obviously it's not a problem for guys like Bumblefck who probably spend more of his time on the forum than ingame  . Forums are a thing of the past.
Just to add to this mature and constructed discussion.
Quote:I'd call the official forums a hive of scum and villainy, but A New Hope was good and I don't want to associate good things with the official forums. Plus, scum and villainy often require some level of intelligence. :)
https://www.reddit.com/user/ExplorerErrant |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2525
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Posted - 2016.06.01 15:17:57 -
[62] - Quote
Maybe two or three iterations more of the original post, and we can have a constructive discussion again. Unfortunately the replies still match to today's version of the original post. 
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 15:47:33 -
[63] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Maybe two or three iterations more of the original post, and we can have a constructive discussion again. Unfortunately the replies still match to today's version of the original post.
He still appears to wish to hold all discussion of the endeavour over on Reddit. I object. Didn't someone link earlier that proposals for stuff connected with PLEX4GOOD had to appear on the EVE Forums?
As to Aaron's point, I've noticed that Devs do sometimes slip into threads there, possibly more than they do here. This has caused problems in the past, I think.
I note the OP's more conciliatory tone, but it doesn't seem to be accompanied by a change in his stance. The final remark, 'Thank you for your......gracious hospitality', is made wholly without sincerity. As creator of the thread, his is the hospitality - and pretty inhospitable it turned out to be!
I've received a reply to my EVEmail to Chribba. Among other things, he notes that I'm not the only person to have written to him about these matters.
Like Tipa, I hope a sensible dialogue can now take place, but I doubt that the upvote/downvote nature of Reddit will in any way make this easy for those like me, wishing to strike a note of caution. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
1350
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 16:15:05 -
[64] - Quote
It doesn't matter where he pitches it, the issue is the same: He's naive, ignorant and obnoxious.
Let him post in r/eve instead of here if he wishes. Nothing of value will be lost, we get plenty of bad pitches and unworkable plans without adding his. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12228
|
Posted - 2016.06.01 16:57:36 -
[65] - Quote
Quote:Obviously it's not a problem for guys like Bumblefck who probably spend more of his time on the forum than ingame . Forums are a thing of the past.
Wrong, Friendo, but try again
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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