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The future of solo/small gang pvp

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Davian Thule Pirkibo Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore 71	Posted - 2016.05.30 23:37:20 - [1] - Quote With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs?
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 549	Posted - 2016.05.31 00:32:14 - [2] - Quote The Naglfar is not a 'small gang pwnmobile'. First of all try flying the Naglfar which he was using and see what happens, you'll probably die quickly without killing much. Also if you watch the video he posted carefully in most of those fights he actually loses more than he kills, and in some of them a lot more. The Naglfar fit he is using is over 5.5 Bil. I don't think in any of the fights he killed over 5.5 Bils worth in return, and I think he lost the Naglfar in every fight except one. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Prometheus Exenthal mnemonic. 816	Posted - 2016.05.31 05:56:26 - [3] - Quote T3D and the ****** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing. I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp. https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE T3D CANCER**
Walextheone The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 117	Posted - 2016.05.31 08:16:03 - [4] - Quote Prometheus Exenthal wrote: T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing. I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp. Yeah! The fast locking carriers are the new cancer. Hilarious to see them as the new insta lockers at gates. Together with their high alpha strikes they feel really broken. Ofc they can still die to blobs etc But before a PvE fitted carrier where bad in pvp. Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same. If they only where balanced so they where more situational good...
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3043	Posted - 2016.05.31 08:25:52 - [5] - Quote Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote: With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs? the thing with these videos, they dont really show when and how many they lose before making the perfect video. he has lost 4 of them which is enough to buy a super. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Deck Cadelanne CAStabouts 322	Posted - 2016.05.31 08:26:16 - [6] - Quote It is bemusing that actually changing carriers to be useful for something other than logi or bait is causing so much hate and discontent. So carriers are dangerous to subcaps now. They are still very killable. Adapt...or keep up the whining in these endlessly repeating forum threads... *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 11367	Posted - 2016.05.31 08:44:47 - [7] - Quote Walextheone wrote: Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same. If they only where balanced so they where more situational good... If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game? ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Planetary Interaction 2.1
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 480	Posted - 2016.05.31 09:05:31 - [8] - Quote Prometheus Exenthal wrote: T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing. I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp. Oh, so now it's this that's killing off solo. There are always complaints that solo id dead/dying and yet solo continues to happen every day.
Fat Buddah Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2016.05.31 09:33:21 - [9] - Quote EVE PvP is more about engineering your fights such that you have a good chance of winning. Most often this involves having patience, avoiding undesirable engagements, and catching smaller/weaker opponents by surprise whenever possible. Of course this is a two way game, so almost always one of the two engaging party is wishing he was not at the receiving end of the space pew pew. When I'm betting on the 00 in roulette, I don't expect the winning chance to be 'fair' and be 50%. Same with the PvP. When my solo ship or my small gang is helplessly destroyed, it is because I have gone against the odds, i.e; things likely to happen are likely to happen.
Walextheone The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 117	Posted - 2016.05.31 10:44:54 - [10] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Walextheone wrote: Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same. If they only where balanced so they where more situational good... If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game? Well ofc but that's missing the point completly. Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides. Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps. Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle. Some examples: Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc. Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit They need a component that balance their really strong sides.
Erebus Vain State War Academy Caldari State 8	Posted - 2016.05.31 11:38:46 - [11] - Quote Fat Buddah wrote: EVE PvP is more about engineering your fights such that you have a good chance of winning. Most often this involves having patience, avoiding undesirable engagements, and catching smaller/weaker opponents by surprise whenever possible. Of course this is a two way game, so almost always one of the two engaging party is wishing he was not at the receiving end of the space pew pew. Things likely to happen are likely to happen. When I'm betting on the 00 in roulette, I don't expect the winning chance to be 'fair' and be 50%. Same with the PvP. When my solo ship or my small gang is helplessly destroyed, it is because I have gone against the odds, or my opponent has better utilised his resources such that he has better chance of killing my spaceship. Engineering fights seems to be the key for sure. It reminds me of a John Steinbeck quote, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
Fat Buddah Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2016.05.31 12:00:28 - [12] - Quote Walextheone wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Walextheone wrote: Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same. If they only where balanced so they where more situational good... If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game? Well ofc but that's missing the point completly. Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides. Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps. Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle. Some examples: Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc. Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit They need a component that balance their really strong sides. That's because we are talking about a Billion ISK capital ship with massive dps and tank that outweigh any solo subcapital flying skill. In other words, the pilot has committed a large chunk of his resources in order not to deal with petty optimal and transversal management, and why should he not be rewarded for the commitment he has made? If you wanna solo fight a capital ship commit your own capital or give up the stupid idea and bring lots of friends to tip the balance in your favour. It's that simple.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3043	Posted - 2016.05.31 12:09:58 - [13] - Quote Fat Buddah wrote: Walextheone wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Walextheone wrote: Now PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much the same. If they only where balanced so they where more situational good... If they are pretty much the same, treat everyone as PvP and you will be good. Last time I checked everyone was talking its a PvP game? Well ofc but that's missing the point completly. Every ship in the game have weak sides and strong sides. Now carriers have very few weaknessses and together with game mechanics that takes no skill to apply dps. Most ships takes a lot of micro management and proper skills to handle. Some examples: Active tankers, low buffer ships, oversized prop ships, medium range weapon that you need to keep transversal down to apply dps, nano ships that need to be in that perfect 1 5- 22k range etc etc. Carrier on the other hand It's bascially Instalock -> Profit They need a component that balance their really strong sides. That's because we are talking about a Billion ISK capital ship with massive dps and tank that outweigh any solo subcapital flying skill. Are you talking about actual pilot skill or skills you train in the game? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 503	Posted - 2016.05.31 19:49:14 - [14] - Quote Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote: With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs? A small gang could easily opt to not engage dreads and carriers. Over the weekend CAS was roaming through lowsec with a few cruisers and destroyers and while sitting on the Vey gate in Frarie a Hel supercarrier comes into us via the gate, yellow boxes us, then before we can react deploys fighters and alphas an Algos. We all go through the gate, the Algos pilot reships, and we have a nice fight against IVY in Harroule a few jumps later. Lesson learned, no big deal, we simply won't hang around on gate with a supercarrier nearby. If we had seen this Nagl during our roam we certainly would have given it a go - and if we all died, oh well, that's EVE, lesson learned, don't engage dreads doing 1000 m/s with a few cruisers and other small ships. They're easy to avoid.
Galaxxis Unicorn Rampage 125	Posted - 2016.05.31 22:08:41 - [15] - Quote Oh look, another one of these.
Davian Thule Pirkibo Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore 71	Posted - 2016.05.31 22:39:37 - [16] - Quote Galaxxis wrote: Oh look, another one of these. most are ***** fests, i dont think the carrier is op, a falcon or 2 literally ends its dps into oblivion, and it cant tackle while using an nsa
TackyTachy1 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2016.06.01 02:34:44 - [17] - Quote I was mining in lo-sec, three Skiffs (MultiBoxer) when a Vexor showed up. Hey, I said to myself, I got lotsa drones, lets kill a Vexor, forgetting what should be branded on my ass with a real hot iron: Eve hunters never hunt alone. We mixed it up, it was cool, then a carrier showed up and it was game over real quick. I did other stupid stuff, lost more stuff but that was pretty well the first mistake. I don't know about killing all this other stuff but it didn't take that long to kill me (x3). Hangar Videos: CCP/USAWallStreet Love Child
Zappity Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2865	Posted - 2016.06.01 02:44:15 - [18] - Quote Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote: With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs? Yes. It is hardly going to chase you down if you don't choose to fight it. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sitting Bull Lakota Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 72	Posted - 2016.06.01 08:27:17 - [19] - Quote Davian Thule Pirkibo wrote: With the release of big mikers video, he demonstrates the power of his naglfar. Should eve allow such powerful ships into the small gang meta like this? Should their essentially be small gang pwnmobiles to engage blobs? I'd like to think that most players view use of capitals as escalations that should be met with escalation or at least a tactic change. It's shameful to believe a kitey cruiser/t3d gang can engage and disengage on a whim without consequence or difficulty. BNI recently lost a carrier to a rather well laid trap. BNI also took down one of Big Mikers's Nags. At a 3b isk difference, if I'm reading the battle report correctly. Caps are quite far from solopwnmobile status at the moment. They're just less likely to be mistaken for defensless loot pi+¦atas now. Can anyone crunch some numbers for me and see if there is a correlation between "Carriers are killing pvp" and "Offgrid boosts aren't a problem." I am curious if those comments tend to originate from the same players.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3051	Posted - 2016.06.01 08:43:14 - [20] - Quote its cool because i havent seen this many capitals out in space before, never even heard of a solo dread, what an awesome time to be alive. FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
big miker Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative 469	Posted - 2016.06.01 09:03:35 - [21] - Quote Correct, I've lost 4 Nags creating this video. Pretty much every fight wasn't cost efficient at all. Not many players are willing to drop a 5.6b isk capital solo or in small gang because they either can't afford to lose them, or care to much about their killboard stats. I'm flying these for fun, and showcasing what ships are capable off in the game. Dreads aren't efficient at all for small gang situations. Carriers on the other hand are completely different since they don't have to siege up to apply just as much dps as a HAW dreadnought. Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy Nano Naglfar!
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 3052	Posted - 2016.06.01 09:12:25 - [22] - Quote big miker wrote: Correct, I've lost 4 Nags creating this video. Pretty much every fight wasn't cost efficient at all. Not many players are willing to drop a 5.6b isk capital solo or in small gang because they either can't afford to lose them, or care to much about their killboard stats. I'm flying these for fun, and showcasing what ships are capable off in the game. Dreads aren't efficient at all for small gang situations. Carriers on the other hand are completely different since they don't have to siege up to apply just as much dps as a HAW dreadnought. dont get me wrong i still take my hat off to you for doing it and your vargur videos inspired me to try out losing shiney stuff just for fun FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17759	Posted - 2016.06.01 15:27:03 - [23] - Quote Prometheus Exenthal wrote: T3D and the ******** carriers are what's slowly killing off soloing. I don't think anyone is concerned about a sudden burst in solo-dread pvp. T3ds are good, but not good enough to time travel back to 2005, which is when solo PvP died. It has been 11 years. Let your grief go. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 323	Posted - 2016.06.01 15:56:23 - [24] - Quote Guys c'mon... If a carrier is sitting on a gate, insta-popping whatever warps in, and you drop in with your PvP Destroyer only to find yourself back in your clone bed, get your buddies together and go carrier killing. You know where the darned thing is, what it's doing and HOW to kill it. They are not the boogey man they are being made out to be. As with all carriers they are dead meat without their fighters. You might lose 1bil ISK in ships doing it but that's a 3+bil ISK ship that just got turned into space scrap. This solo carrier craze will die an ugly death once you guys start seeing these things as PREY, not as a predator. There are about a dozen effective strategies for dealing with carriers and all of them are on killing the squadrons. Pick your poison and go take down the ships. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Milostiev Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 9	Posted - 2016.06.01 17:08:13 - [25] - Quote Erebus Vain wrote: Fat Buddah wrote: EVE PvP is more about engineering your fights such that you have a good chance of winning. Most often this involves having patience, avoiding undesirable engagements, and catching smaller/weaker opponents by surprise whenever possible. Of course this is a two way game, so almost always one of the two engaging party is wishing he was not at the receiving end of the space pew pew. Things likely to happen are likely to happen. When I'm betting on the 00 in roulette, I don't expect the winning chance to be 'fair' and be 50%. Same with the PvP. When my solo ship or my small gang is helplessly destroyed, it is because I have gone against the odds, or my opponent has better utilised his resources such that he has better chance of killing my spaceship. Engineering fights seems to be the key for sure. It reminds me of a John Steinbeck quote, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." Unfair fights don't get the blood pumping, don't make for great vids to promote EVE and certainly makes ppl quit because a game company makes money *on the trek* to the final objective. If the player wins this easily, eventually thre will be less opponents, and without excitement, boredom sets in. The kind of boredom that killed the CFC (blues everywhere, where to go and fight, so far away), only eve wide (farm kills, excitement for a few days, meh sets in, roamers stop coming in).
lollerwaffle Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 308	Posted - 2016.06.02 10:55:53 - [26] - Quote BECAUSE OF CARRIER
Sustrai Aditua Intandofisa 257	Posted - 2016.06.02 12:50:08 - [27] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: dont get me wrong i still take my hat off to you for doing it and your vargur videos inspired me to try out losing shiney stuff just for fun At last...the self-infliced ISK drain has been activated. After years of planning "they" finally pulled it off.... If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 886	Posted - 2016.06.02 13:50:03 - [28] - Quote lollerwaffle wrote: BECAUSE OF CARRIER inb4 CCP_Carrier Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Deck Cadelanne CAStabouts 324	Posted - 2016.06.02 14:15:31 - [29] - Quote TackyTachy1 wrote: I was mining in lo-sec, three Skiffs (MultiBoxer) when a Vexor showed up. Hey, I said to myself, I got lotsa drones, lets kill a Vexor, forgetting what should be branded on my ass with a real hot iron: Eve hunters never hunt alone. We mixed it up, it was cool, then a carrier showed up and it was game over real quick. I did other stupid stuff, lost more stuff but that was pretty well the first mistake. I don't know about killing all this other stuff but it didn't take that long to kill me (x3). I don't know whether to laugh or cry at somebody using a carrier to kill miners... *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson

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