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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
14210
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:02:54 -
[1] - Quote
Quick Lore Break:
In recent months the CONCORD Inner Circle has started seriously considering a new approach to the issue of New Eden's illicit booster trade. Prohibition was successful in reducing booster addiction rates, but has had serious downsides across the cluster.
The illegal booster trade has enriched the great pirate factions (especially the Serpentis Corporation and their Angel Cartel partners), and led to an increase in underworld violence as local pirate bands compete for slices of this lucrative pie.
Escalating enforcement requirements have stretched the resources of the DED and the empire customs authorities to their breaking points.
In response to these issues, the Inner Circle is planning a complete shift in their approach to boosters. Booster possession, trade and consumption by capsuleers will be legalized, and licenses for legal booster production will be available to certain non-capsuleer corporations (X-Sense being the first authorized manufacturer). Booster production and research by pirate corporations and unlicensed capsuleers will continue to be illegal.
Some CONCORD resources will be diverted to harm reduction programs (mainly focused on treating addiction among non-capsuleer populations).
This change in approach is obviously good news for the X-Sense corporation, and experts predict that it will deal a non-trivial blow to the income of the Serpentis Corporation and Angel Cartel. Nobody yet knows how these powerful pirates will respond, but it's a safe assumption that they won't take it lying down.
In practical terms we are planning to legalize all raw and processed boosters in all areas of Empire space, starting in the 118.6 release at the end of June.
This change will only impact boosters (there is a similar but separate change planned that will also legalize Ectoplasm). Other illegal items will continue to have their bans enforced by empire customs officers (so if you try and carry slaves through the Republic they will continue to be cross with you).
Beyond the storyline connection, we want to make this change because the current system of booster illegality is not serving a strong purpose in gameplay. It makes the use of boosters annoying for many pilots, and causes other frustrations such as blocking contracting of ships that have boosters in their cargoholds.
We won't rule out potentially making more changes to the system of item legality and smuggling in the future (including but not limited to complete reworks of the system) but we believe that this change is a significant benefit to the game by itself.
This change is on SISI now so we encourage you to give it a try and let us know what you think.
Thanks and happy boosting!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6011
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:06:52 -
[2] - Quote
Wooo! Drugs for everyone!
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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The Scanner
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
29
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:08:16 -
[3] - Quote
Hi, I was wondering why CCP removed my other post regarding CCPs homophobic actions. Why are you running from me? All I want is an explanation for CCP's actions, yet no one (including CCP Fozzie) has responding to my please for justice via evemail. Please fix this. |
KhanidLady
White Knight Social Club
Play Hard Pray Harder
7
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:10:14 -
[4] - Quote
if this leads to an addiction problem, my parents will have a word with you. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
Naquatech Syndicate
1913
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:12:25 -
[5] - Quote
I don't see a problem in legalization of combat boosters.
Wonder how the producers feel about it, will it lead to enabling production in high sec ?
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1500
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:12:48 -
[6] - Quote
ZOMG YESSSSSSSS!!!!!! Cannot say what a great change this is. Mostly for contracting purposes.
It was completely trivial to bypass customs officials anyway. In hundreds of trips through empire space with boosters in my alt's cargo, I have never once lost a ship or had to give up my cargo. Unlike Han Solo, I never get boarded.
The tie-in to X-Sense is an interesting one. Other than as just a story/lore item, will X-Sense have any practical gameplay with boosters? BPCs, etc?
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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H3llHound
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
89
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:22:42 -
[7] - Quote
Will this mean I can put combat boosters like the improved blue pill booster into sell contracts? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2776
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:24:45 -
[8] - Quote
does this mean we will be able to manufacture them in HS with the new industry arrays or will reactions still be low sec and below?
Citadel worm hole tax
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NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
259
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:31:03 -
[9] - Quote
LEGALIZE IT!
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
Together We Solo
301
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:34:39 -
[10] - Quote
Well this is unexpected.
This could be very cool and a way to get more people into them. I have to admit the GÇÿsmugglingGÇÖ part was sometimes fun though. I always sang the GÇÿBanditGÇÖ song in my head.
The big question is what about booster production? I would hate to see yet another industry move to hi-sec by default. Lowsec is starving for industry (content) as it is it would be nice to keep production there. Booster production actually does provide gameplay in lowsec but if anyone can set up a hi-sec operation I donGÇÖt see it lasting past release day. I think there still should be some GÇÿshadynessGÇÖ to boosters and keeping production in lowsec could do that. I mean does Concord really want all these meth-labs in their nice suburban hisec? |
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Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
131
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:35:03 -
[11] - Quote
So won't this render the newly-introduced SoE boosters obsolete? Sure they have no side-effects, but with decent skills you can take standard boosters without getting side-effects anyway and they give a much bigger boost. |
sHanQ Myteia
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
25
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:35:45 -
[12] - Quote
as a drug producer since years i actually like the idea even though i will most likely lose some money
while you're at it, mind checking out the balancing between certain boosters? boosters like x-instincts, frentix and sooth sayer are very weak(their side effects pretty much always ruin the purpose of the drug)
for example the Sooth Sayer(+falloff) mostly used by Cynabal/Vagabond pilots can give you a velocity or/and shield capacity penalty.... these side effects make them completely useless for those ships.
curious whats gonna change about that |
Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
1181
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:37:36 -
[13] - Quote
I was just yesterday talking in help chat about how booster illegality in highsec is ridiculous and has no positive effects from a gameplay standpoint. Great to see that this is changing. |
Bleyddyn apRhys
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:40:58 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:...mainly focused on treating addiction among non-capsuleer populations...
I just realized how cool doing research on addiction would be if you had access to capsuleers.
"Sir and/or Madam, please take these highly addictive and dangerous drugs for three months, then jump into a clean clone and allow us to observe your responses. We will, of course, supply you with the clones for this experiment, along with the drugs. Think of the benefits this could provide for the non-capsuleer popu... Ahem, yes, well, of course we would also compensate you handsomely for your time." |
Ash Darkfire
PH0ENIX COMPANY
Phoenix Company Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.06.08 14:42:44 -
[15] - Quote
Legal powerful drugs in HS will make everyone happy :3
Next patch: Mining yield and cycle time Boosters |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2776
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:13:30 -
[16] - Quote
sHanQ Myteia wrote:as a drug producer since years i actually like the idea even though i will most likely lose some money
while you're at it, mind checking out the balancing between certain boosters? boosters like x-instincts, frentix and sooth sayer are very weak(their side effects pretty much always ruin the purpose of the drug)
for example the Sooth Sayer(+falloff) mostly used by Cynabal/Vagabond pilots can give you a velocity or/and shield capacity penalty.... these side effects make them completely useless for those ships.
curious whats gonna change about that
o/
Hard Knocks' and Sujarento's main drug supplier :)
what boosters isn't this true for?
Citadel worm hole tax
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Rob Kaichin
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
156
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:15:44 -
[17] - Quote
Bad luck Ez and Whizz.
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Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
406
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:19:31 -
[18] - Quote
Fozzie, this is great! Please make sure they're also removed from the banned items list in Contracts while you're at it :) |
Skir Skor
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
33
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:31:26 -
[19] - Quote
<3 Nom Nom Nom <3 |
Zam Zumah
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
14
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:32:20 -
[20] - Quote
Rob Kaichin wrote:Bad luck Ez and Whizz.
It's the second time this has happened to us. This was our response last time.I hope we will adapt and survive again.
Of course personally I do feel disappointed to see this interesting niche of the game be removed. Smuggling/dealing simply will not be the same and will all be entirely impersonal station trades now.
Since we began counting in 2013 between us all we've delivered 131,424 units of drugs through private contracts. Not only stations, but also WHs, motherships and capital ship fleets! One of our top dealers has sold 78,969,501,540 ISK worth this way. So well done gawrshmapooo I think that record will now stand indefinitely.
I do think it's a mistake to "simplify" things without really replacing with too much else, and on first glance seems will be yet another reason not to do something in low-sec.
I do realise though, for a lot of users this will be a good thing and there is no part in arguing against that.
We'll figure a new approach and interest angle I'm sure. Feels like an end of the era. I hope Fozzie does make on his word to revisit it soon. Though CCP Grey said the same in the linked post above, so won't hold out for anything! |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1230
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:51:38 -
[21] - Quote
I hope the silly expensive skills are staying, since I have them |
FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
92
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Posted - 2016.06.08 15:52:24 -
[22] - Quote
I find this totally unnecessary. All a proper capsuleer needs to have a good time in space is 9m3 of Spirits, three Exotic Dancers (male), and one can of long-limb roes. |
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
131
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:03:16 -
[23] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:I hope the silly expensive skills are staying, since I have them
The silly expensive skills have no bearing on the legality of boosters, so why would they change? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Test Alliance Please Ignore
14180
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:20:16 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: It makes the use of boosters annoying for many pilots, and causes other frustrations such as blocking contracting of ships that have boosters in their cargoholds.
"Frustration" isn't the word, and the damn filter won't let me say the right word !!  ,
Thank you guys so much for doing away with that bit of madness, I had a carrier in a station once and couldn't contract that sucker to my alt.because it contained ONE improved exile booster. Rage qutting for the night ensued (rather than flying 25 jumps lol). |
Frikkin' Lasers
All Cats Are Beautiful
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:31:54 -
[25] - Quote
Hauler alts with perilous empire standings around the cluster breathe a sigh of relief with this change. |
Ripard Teg
Ice Fire Warriors
Escalating Entropy
1258
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:37:17 -
[26] - Quote
Just to be clear, does this include the contract system? ie, will we be able to contract boosters and/or ships that have boosters in them?
It'd also be FANTASTIC if, while you're in there tweaking, you could adjust boosters so they show up as charges -- similar to Nanite Repair Paste -- so I don't have to go clean out all my ships every time I want to carrier them somewhere. ;)
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
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Gothikia
Star Frontiers
279
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:40:51 -
[27] - Quote
Should have announced this on 420... Missed opportunity there methinks.
<3 Gothie
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Gorski Car
705
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:41:27 -
[28] - Quote
It starts with synth blue pills and all of a sudden young capsuleers everywhere is smoking strong x-instinct. Legalizing boosters is wrong and capsuleers should reach for the stars, not for boosters.
(srsly tho best change)
Collect this post
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KitCat 01
True Xenon Inc.
White Legion.
11
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
watch out guys, boosters are truly addictive. once you started using them, you won't go back |
Frikkin' Lasers
All Cats Are Beautiful
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:50:13 -
[30] - Quote
Now High Security is really going to be HIGH security
eheheheh
I'll show myself out |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16220
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Posted - 2016.06.08 16:56:24 -
[31] - Quote
Rise up this mornin',
Smiled with the risin' sun,
Three little birds
Perch by my doorstep
Singin' sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true,
Sayin', ("This is my message to you-ou-ou:")
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
177
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 17:00:02 -
[32] - Quote
What happends when you let two dutchies on the CSM xD
+1 :)
EN24 CEO / Chief Editor
[@BobmonEve][2] - Third Party Service - #HABIT - Bobmon for CSM
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Mercenary Coalition
3052
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Posted - 2016.06.08 17:03:42 -
[33] - Quote
Maybe they should take all that loose funding and start hunting hose dirty 'jectors you see causing mass mayhem.
I mean come on! A young promising capsuleer just gets his piloting license, and not a day later, some shady guy gets him hooked on injectors. Last I heard he was out and about in low/null murdering by the thousands! He had his whole life ahead of him!
CONCORD needs to take a stand against this madness!
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
568
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Posted - 2016.06.08 17:30:39 -
[34] - Quote
Any chance you could make drug smuggling a bit more interesting in the future Fozzie?
Although I quite like that I can now transport drugs through high sec more easily to use for PvP, I did actually find the smuggling aspect of it quite cool in terms of the universe. I remember doing the missions were you visited the pirate faction drug labs and that whole aspect of the game was really cool and enhanced the universe, particularly for a newer player.
So basically I'm glad your looking at improving this aspect of the game, but hopefully you will look at something interesting for the future in terms of drugs being different to regular commodities.
Also wasn't the whole point of those new sleeper drugs going to be that you can use them in high sec? Making all drugs legal will certainly diminish their desirability now particularly considering the effort it takes to get the components for them.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7768
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Posted - 2016.06.08 17:53:40 -
[35] - Quote
Oh great. This means children will be able to just walk into any store and buy all of the boosters they want. MY GOD THINK ABOUT THE CHEEEEEEEEEEEEELDRENNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry, couldn't help it)
In all seriousness though, smuggling is game content that is sorely neglected and could use some love.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Xolve
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
2562
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Posted - 2016.06.08 18:49:21 -
[36] - Quote
Will we be able to put ships with boosters in their cargo in a carrier SMA now as well? |
Bishop Xsi
Blackfriar Bridge
84
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:00:54 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:Turn on , tune in, drop out.
-CCP Fozzie, 2016 |
nezroy
Nice Clan
10
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:21:17 -
[38] - Quote
Will this include fixes to the booster side effects/booster skills so that they actually work properly and provide meaningful gameplay? |
Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2239
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:28:29 -
[39] - Quote
What happened to changing the system to where layers police the smugglers?
NPC's should ignore boosters but if you find someone with boosters in their cargo (found by cargo scan) in high sec, it would be cool if that made them a legal target in high sec.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Offshore Asanari
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
0
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:29:02 -
[40] - Quote
\o/ |
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
2580
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:38:03 -
[41] - Quote
Can somebody please give me a short summary what the new rules then are? Not sure I understood everything CCP Fozzie said.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Mercenary Coalition
3052
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:46:41 -
[42] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Can somebody please give me a short summary what the new rules then are? Not sure I understood everything CCP Fozzie said.
Drugs are good, mmmkay |
big miker
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
474
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 20:18:54 -
[43] - Quote
I approve of this message.
Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy
Nano Naglfar!
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Neurotox
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division
I N F A M O U S
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 20:19:05 -
[44] - Quote
So will pilots with Black Market Trading get reimbursed? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2777
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 20:23:56 -
[45] - Quote
Neurotox wrote:So will pilots with Black Market Trading get reimbursed?
i didn't even know this was still in the game but i'm pretty sure it hasn't actually done anything for ages
Citadel worm hole tax
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Neurotox
Brave Operations - Lollipop Division
I N F A M O U S
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 20:26:21 -
[46] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Neurotox wrote:So will pilots with Black Market Trading get reimbursed? i didn't even know this was still in the game but i'm pretty sure it hasn't actually done anything for ages
Well, I can always smuggle slaves through Minmatar space. |
Nex Parietis
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
4
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Posted - 2016.06.08 21:32:48 -
[47] - Quote
As someone who just joined Es and Whizz, and was very interested in doing the smuggling activity they've done for years, this is a punch to the gut.
I suppose all there is to do in eve is buy items via market. Shoot players. Rinse Repeat.
Not a good choice, removing ideas from the game instead of expanding or adjusting them. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
409
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Posted - 2016.06.08 21:38:23 -
[48] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:does this mean we will be able to manufacture them in HS with the new industry arrays or will reactions still be low sec and below?
A good question.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2778
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Posted - 2016.06.08 22:06:57 -
[49] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:does this mean we will be able to manufacture them in HS with the new industry arrays or will reactions still be low sec and below? A good question.
it would seem it was answered(ish) in the main post so definitely not with this change but they seem to be hinting at considering it?
I don't mind either way so long as the rigs used in it give a far better boost to low/null (maybe even make HS worse than current) would also be interesting to see LS be given a better boost to drugs than null to try and bring the activity into low even more
Citadel worm hole tax
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nezroy
Nice Clan
10
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Posted - 2016.06.08 22:18:13 -
[50] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Can somebody please give me a short summary what the new rules then are? Not sure I understood everything CCP Fozzie said.
ALL boosters -- now legal in all HS (in cargo, contracts, market, etc.)
drug manufacture -- not changing, still not allowed in HS if it wasn't before
illegal things not boosters -- not changing, still not allowed if it wasn't before
Ectoplasm -- now legal in all HS (but not because of this) |
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
409
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Posted - 2016.06.08 22:27:01 -
[51] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Petrified wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:does this mean we will be able to manufacture them in HS with the new industry arrays or will reactions still be low sec and below? A good question. it would seem it was answered(ish) in the main post so definitely not with this change but they seem to be hinting at considering it? I don't mind either way so long as the rigs used in it give a far better boost to low/null (maybe even make HS worse than current) would also be interesting to see LS be given a better boost to drugs than null to try and bring the activity into low even more
Yeah, it was not clear on that point. But if they did allow it, it would make sense it would be more efficient outside of High Sec. Certainly boosting it optimally in Low Sec could potentially bring more of that activity and related combat to low sec.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions
404 Hole Not Found
2239
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Posted - 2016.06.08 22:33:05 -
[52] - Quote
So instead of making smuggling more interesting like it is in Elite dangerous, it's just going away?!
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Seraph IX Basarab
Angry Dragons
Psychotic Tendencies.
783
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 23:48:56 -
[53] - Quote
The best way to balance this of course is to establish some sort of tax. The empires may legalize drugs but this does not mean they won't want to tax the hell out of it. This way individual "face to face" dealers don't lose their gameplay.
Psychotic Tendencies Diplomat
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Tetsel
Asocial Club
266
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Posted - 2016.06.09 00:05:32 -
[54] - Quote
Once at a past Fanfest, I was told booster will be only tradable "hand to hand", in station, and the seller should become some kind of a dealer hidden in the shade walking in station. All that behind "The Door"...
What a naive kid I was.
OPEN THE DOOR !!!
Loyal servent to Mother Amamake.
@EVE_Tetsel
Another Bittervet Please Ignore
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Seraph IX Basarab
Angry Dragons
Psychotic Tendencies.
783
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 00:12:17 -
[55] - Quote
Yeah remove it from HS market orders would be great. It still requires you to interact with a dealer. That's probably the best option.
Psychotic Tendencies Diplomat
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2779
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 00:51:50 -
[56] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:So instead of making smuggling more interesting like it is in Elite dangerous, it's just going away?!
he said they would look into making it more interesting so i think they plan to but they see that the current system is worse for more players than no system at all
i would rather they fix it or implement a new one but with their track record of "coming back to things" i doubt they ever will
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2779
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 00:53:26 -
[57] - Quote
Tetsel wrote:Once at a past Fanfest, I was told booster will be only tradable "hand to hand"
while the idea of higher taxes or removing it from the market is a decent idea only being done via station trade would be to limiting particularly if there were no dealers around in your TZ
Citadel worm hole tax
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GENT
Rifterlings
Zero.Four Ops
36
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Posted - 2016.06.09 01:16:59 -
[58] - Quote
This is truly fantastic.
Abandon Ships: Recruiting PVPers and PVP corporations for Nullsec
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
820
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 02:32:58 -
[59] - Quote
So this is to encourage people using them more yes? Since a majority share of players are in high and ergo never use boosters. |
Zam Zumah
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
19
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Posted - 2016.06.09 05:03:11 -
[60] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rek Seven wrote:So instead of making smuggling more interesting like it is in Elite dangerous, it's just going away?! he said they would look into making it more interesting so i think they plan to but they see that the current system is worse for more players than no system at all i would rather they fix it or implement a new one but with their track record of "coming back to things" i doubt they ever will
We actually proposed some ideas to CCP that they asked for .. well about 9 years ago ... here - some of those ideas are a bit out-dated now but does amuse me after so long, good intentions aside, the general plan seems to be remove it all together. |
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Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
The Bloc
736
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 05:22:31 -
[61] - Quote
Hopefully this means you plan on adding more hard drugs to the game.  |
Istara Erion
Eidetic Laboratories
0
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Posted - 2016.06.09 05:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Does X-Sense getting a license to produce them mean that there will be an NPC price for them or that NPC sell orders are going to appear on the market?
I would check myself, but I can't log on to Sisi on any of my accounts because I keep getting an invalid password error. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Angry Dragons
Psychotic Tendencies.
783
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Posted - 2016.06.09 05:44:40 -
[63] - Quote
That would be terrible. Drug production should be exclusive to players.
Psychotic Tendencies Diplomat
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Istara Erion
Eidetic Laboratories
0
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Posted - 2016.06.09 05:51:00 -
[64] - Quote
I agree, but the wording of the OP is ambiguous.
Frankly smuggling should have been fixed, I seem to recall that being on the front of the box when I bought this game in 2003. In fact, it was one of the things that induced me to try it. Instead, we get a half-assed "system" that is more or less reliant on an exploit (or a fault in the design of the game that hasn't been fixed in 13 years, depending on your POV) to work.
Making them legal to possess may make them more appealing to buyers, but this just seems like a lazy solution. This shouldn't become a "big box" industry though. |
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
69
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 09:40:47 -
[65] - Quote
Zam Zumah wrote:We actually proposed some ideas to CCP that they asked for .. well about 9 years ago ... here - some of those ideas are a bit out-dated now but does amuse me after so long, good intentions aside, the general plan seems to be remove it all together.
It's too hard and all legacy code and the dog ate the only person who understood it. |
Ong
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
132
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 09:54:43 -
[66] - Quote
Good change, if only for finally being able to contract ships with them in.
Any changes planed to synth boosters then? As there will be very little point in using them after this. |
JC X
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
5
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 10:00:03 -
[67] - Quote
Disappointing change...
I'm a regular user, not a manufacturer and I cant believe your taking good stuff out of eve.
Smuggling should be a legit business - with this change you are completely removing it.
Boosters shouldn't be something every pilot uses or is even expected to carry - if you need an isk sink, find something that doesn't remove an entire career choice from the game.
|
Bum Shadow
Last Exit for the Lost
92
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 10:46:15 -
[68] - Quote
Very sad to see a niche area of the game disappear, though I understand the benefits to the users. My absolute favorite aspect was the human to human nature of the drug trade, it wasn't just another min-max 0.01isk station item. There was a human chain from raw material to gibbering addict that very few other areas of the game have.
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
1802
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 12:36:09 -
[69] - Quote
Does 'giving license to X-Sence' mean that drugs BPCs and drugs itself will be available in that corporation LP store too?
If it does not then i don't see any harm to drug manufacturers actually. This change can only make demand bigger thus increasing prices and profits for manufacturers.
... or i'm missing something here?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
271
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 12:50:52 -
[70] - Quote
Sad, sad introducing new smuggling mechanics would have been more interesting. 
|
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Bum Shadow
Last Exit for the Lost
93
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 13:30:19 -
[71] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Does 'giving license to X-Sence' mean that drugs BPCs and drugs itself will be available in that corporation LP store too?
If it does not then i don't see any harm to drug manufacturers actually. This change can only make demand bigger thus increasing prices and profits for manufacturers.
... or i'm missing something here?
It removes the human element to the sale and delivery of drugs. But yes, as far as production goes provided they don't just provide the BPCs etc via NPC stations the production will see increased demand. |
Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
204
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 14:46:44 -
[72] - Quote
Eve Online Weedcity Expansion, Patch Note version 420: Blaze it Edition
Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2781
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 16:08:45 -
[73] - Quote
Ong wrote:Good change, if only for finally being able to contract ships with them in.
Any changes planed to synth boosters then? As there will be very little point in using them after this.
not true they are cheap and have 0 chance of side affect while they will definitely not be used as much as before there will still be uses
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
665
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 16:32:06 -
[74] - Quote
D.A.R.E to say YES to boosters, kids!
You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
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Istara Erion
Eidetic Laboratories
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 18:32:50 -
[75] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Does 'giving license to X-Sence' mean that drugs BPCs and drugs itself will be available in that corporation LP store too?
If it does not then i don't see any harm to drug manufacturers actually. This change can only make demand bigger thus increasing prices and profits for manufacturers.
... or i'm missing something here?
They wouldn't be in the LP store because X-Sense is a Jovian corporation and has no agents. Maybe that's one of the changes, but I can't log on to the test server because of this stupid invalid password error so I can't check. The reason it is potentially harmful is that it sets a price ceiling. X-Sense has 45 stations in 27 systems, distributed quite evenly throughout the cluster in high and low security space. Unless the NPC boosters are really expensive (and assuming that X-Sense getting a license means that there will be NPC sell orders), player producers will have to either beat those prices or find markets where people are desperate enough to purchase them at profitable rates instead of just sending their trade alt to the NPC station to get them. You already see a lot of boosters on the open market that are priced as if the gas required to make them were free. Creating an NPC supply of them just cuts into peoples' profits and provides less incentive for people to manufacture them. There's already little point for new players to get started in any kind of production or industry unless they have 10 accounts and can compete with hyper-optimized production lines that have been rolling for years. This may represent another doorway of opportunity being closed.
I realize the quality of life change for users is tremendous, that's great. And this will increase demand, also great. But since I can't log on to the test server to see exactly what these changes are and they are coming out in 3 weeks I am a little frazzled. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6022
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 19:12:25 -
[76] - Quote
As far as I'm aware, the only change is that drugs will no longer be illegal.
That's it. Manufacturing remains limited to low and below (Hence the license bit in the lore. As you're not part of the one corp that has a license to make them in high, you're not allowed to)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Istara Erion
Eidetic Laboratories
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 19:31:49 -
[77] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:As far as I'm aware, the only change is that drugs will no longer be illegal.
That's it. Manufacturing remains limited to low and below (Hence the license bit in the lore. As you're not part of the one corp that has a license to make them in high, you're not allowed to)
I hope that is the case. I understand that the X-Sense license may be part of a lore tie-in, or even a larger plot (e.g., maybe the new Serpentis cap fleet will knock over an X-Sense station and spur a Jove Directorate response), I just work with words for a living and the failure to phrase it as "X-Sense was granted a license to produce for non-capsuleer markets" just sends alarm bells off in my head. Especially since I can't verify anything myself on Sisi.
This is a niche industry and people are bound to be very protective of their operations. I probably seem whiny and paranoid, but I left a decent alliance on my main to launch this little business again and suddenly there's a sea change happening in 3 weeks. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2582
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 20:40:37 -
[78] - Quote
This is a good change and one I hope helps promote the booster-manufacturing groups through increased demand. I don't produce them myself, but I always enjoyed hunting gas miners when we lived in Vale.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6022
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 20:42:01 -
[79] - Quote
Istara Erion wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:As far as I'm aware, the only change is that drugs will no longer be illegal.
That's it. Manufacturing remains limited to low and below (Hence the license bit in the lore. As you're not part of the one corp that has a license to make them in high, you're not allowed to) I hope that is the case. I understand that the X-Sense license may be part of a lore tie-in, or even a larger plot (e.g., maybe the new Serpentis cap fleet will knock over an X-Sense station and spur a Jove Directorate response), I just work with words for a living and the failure to phrase it as "X-Sense was granted a license to produce for non-capsuleer markets" just sends alarm bells off in my head. Especially since I can't verify anything myself on Sisi. This is a niche industry and people are bound to be very protective of their operations. I probably seem whiny and paranoid, but I left a decent alliance on my main to launch this little business again and suddenly there's a sea change happening in 3 weeks.
I figure there are NPC capsuleers out there. Either that, or the people who do capsuleer training are wasting a whole lot of money.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1231
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 22:15:12 -
[80] - Quote
Galaxxis wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:I hope the silly expensive skills are staying, since I have them The silly expensive skills have no bearing on the legality of boosters, so why would they change?
booster skills and booster legality are both things related to boosters |
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Kult Udikai
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.09 23:41:53 -
[81] - Quote
This is incredibly disappointing. I've really enjoyed the face to face interaction of my trade and flying around through dangerous space with hundreds of millions to a few billion isk worth of drugs in my hull. It was actual smuggling and drug dealing. The only real issue, in my opinion, being the inconvenience of contracts. People learned to trust the Es and Whizz name because we earned that trust over years of successful dealing.
When our CEO offered constructive input to the CSM for other options on dealing with this, we were ignored. We have competition, we aren't the only booster dealers in the game, and with our considerable experience, one would think our input would be seen as valuable. It's a real shame.
Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.)
Instead of making smuggling more interesting, CCP is just nuking it. It's not even the high sec smuggling that is going away. I seldom went through high sec. We smuggle past gate camps, roaming gangs, and trap orders. Now boosters will just be bought in trade hubs and moved via normal alliance/corp or third party courier services; just like the rest of the market items.
I do not like this change, and I do not like that the people most intimately involved in the profession were ignored while making this decision. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1251
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 13:35:12 -
[82] - Quote
Yes please! Now I can take a Drop of X-Tinct in Exile.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Istara Erion
Eidetic Laboratories
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.10 17:05:25 -
[83] - Quote
Why not just allow them to be contracted and otherwise leave them as-is? Alternatively, why not make them legal to possess for personal use, but unlawful to distribute?
You could create two types of items. A drug lab would crank out a "packed booster," which would have to be smuggled or transported to the end-user. The end-user then activates the item, turning it into dosage units that expire after a short-ish period of time, I was thinking like 1-3 days. Just like actual pharmaceuticals, boosters would have a beyond use date. And we already have items in game that expire after a set period of time. A pilot carrying dosage units in their cargo would not suffer any repercussions from customs. Pilots carrying the packed version would have to steer clear of the law. You could sell the packed ones on the open market like you can with boosters now (which is inexplicable in lore terms, but convenient for players). You couldn't contract a ship with packed boosters, but could contract one with dosage units.
Unfortunately it seems like this is completely set in stone since they've already drawn up some lore for it, and doubly so because the CSM (and by extension CCP) apparently ignored the recommendations of one of the oldest and most prolific booster operations in the game. And it's happening in 3 weeks. In my professional world we would call this "arbitrary and capricious," but I know that doesn't really apply here. |
Ricky Sledge
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 19:00:48 -
[84] - Quote
Kult Udikai wrote:This is incredibly disappointing. I've really enjoyed the face to face interaction of my trade and flying around through dangerous space with hundreds of millions to a few billion isk worth of drugs in my hull. It was actual smuggling and drug dealing. The only real issue, in my opinion, being the inconvenience of contracts. People learned to trust the Es and Whizz name because we earned that trust over years of successful dealing. When our CEO offered constructive input to the CSM for other options on dealing with this, we were ignored. We have competition, we aren't the only booster dealers in the game, and with our considerable experience, one would think our input would be seen as valuable. It's a real shame. Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.) Instead of making smuggling more interesting, CCP is just nuking it. It's not even the high sec smuggling that is going away. I seldom went through high sec. We smuggle past gate camps, roaming gangs, and trap orders. Now boosters will just be bought in trade hubs and moved via normal alliance/corp or third party courier services; just like the rest of the market items. I do not like this change, and I do not like that the people most intimately involved in the profession were ignored while making this decision.
I have to totally agree with you corp bro, it feels a sting all round here, as a smuggler, dedicated to the smuggling aspect a lot of business just got ditched :-) and I think more than anything that annoyed me here is that they didn't say leave the strong as illicit, as some chemical mixes the authorities would likely not want to have in the community, for mental health fears or something or perhaps like strong might be reserved for imperial guard purposes only 'official use', rather than this blanket legalisation we have here.
I would have honestly just been happy the way it was with some more adverts advertising the booster business as few people know about it and we just need more users to improve demand, the dealers are dug in now after all these years, it seems only reasonable that this time in the natural evolution of the booster business in this game it would follow a similar pattern to rl, be kept on the quiet for years to the rich and the in the know only to become mainstream because some footballer likes his crash or something :-p |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 16:26:38 -
[85] - Quote
What if CCP make skill injectors a new drug for smuggling?
Sure, leave them legal, but bring back local-only activation. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 17:15:11 -
[86] - Quote
Kult Udikai wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.)
That's a common thing in recent CCP changes. They remove feature after feature, giving nothing instead. Or even worse, they deliver crap like daily quests. Remember they removed jump clone installation restriction? No one even asked for it.
When CCP Seagull was in charge, she said that enablers are very needed for EVE, yet they are being treated, and I quote, "like sh*t". She promised to change that and give them more love. But now CCP Fozzie is leading the way and here we go - another bunch of players are claimed unnecessary.
That being said, I support legalization. Boosters already have their built-in drawbacks and with that legality issues they are just simply ignored by most players. But give us something instead! I mean, EVE is a huge universe. Yet, logistics give so little content (other than tedium). |
Seraph IX Basarab
Angry Dragons
Psychotic Tendencies.
787
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 01:23:50 -
[87] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Kult Udikai wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.) That's a common thing in recent CCP changes. They remove feature after feature, giving nothing instead. Or even worse, they deliver crap like daily quests. Remember they removed jump clone installation restriction? No one even asked for it. When CCP Seagull was in charge, she said that enablers are very needed for EVE, yet they are being treated, and I quote, "like sh*t". She promised to change that and give them more love. But now CCP Fozzie is leading the way and here we go - another bunch of players are claimed unnecessary. That being said, I support legalization. Boosters already have their built-in drawbacks and with that legality issues they are just simply ignored by most players. But give us something instead! I mean, EVE is a huge universe. Yet, logistics give so little content (other than tedium).
What's the point of sperging a laundry list of things you disagree with if you're only going to agree with the OP? shoo go away
Psychotic Tendencies Diplomat
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6029
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 02:47:37 -
[88] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Kult Udikai wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.) That's a common thing in recent CCP changes. They remove feature after feature, giving nothing instead. Or even worse, they deliver crap like daily quests. Remember they removed jump clone installation restriction? No one even asked for it. When CCP Seagull was in charge, she said that enablers are very needed for EVE, yet they are being treated, and I quote, "like sh*t". She promised to change that and give them more love. But now CCP Fozzie is leading the way and here we go - another bunch of players are claimed unnecessary. That being said, I support legalization. Boosters already have their built-in drawbacks and with that legality issues they are just simply ignored by most players. But give us something instead! I mean, EVE is a huge universe. Yet, logistics give so little content (other than tedium).
Actually, people did ask for the jump clone thing. It was initially a bug. But people asked for it to stay.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 08:37:37 -
[89] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:That being said, I support legalization. Boosters already have their built-in drawbacks and with that legality issues they are just simply ignored by most players. But give us something instead! I mean, EVE is a huge universe. Yet, logistics give so little content (other than tedium). What's the point of sperging a laundry list of things you disagree with if you're only going to agree with the OP? shoo go away
You dont tell me what to do, alright.
And my point was in bold and underlined. |
ube smoked
State War Academy
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 11:57:52 -
[90] - Quote
Hyped for drugs. |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
432
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 19:13:07 -
[91] - Quote
Kult Udikai wrote:This is incredibly disappointing. I've really enjoyed the face to face interaction of my trade and flying around through dangerous space with hundreds of millions to a few billion isk worth of drugs in my hull. It was actual smuggling and drug dealing. The only real issue, in my opinion, being the inconvenience of contracts. People learned to trust the Es and Whizz name because we earned that trust over years of successful dealing. When our CEO offered constructive input to the CSM for other options on dealing with this, we were ignored. We have competition, we aren't the only booster dealers in the game, and with our considerable experience, one would think our input would be seen as valuable. It's a real shame. Steve Ronuken wrote:
That's it.
The only thing that's been done is an entire profession will be removed from the game. A corner of the sandbox will be gone. It's like removing rats from anoms, banning scams, or removing industrial ships. (Yes, I realize these are possibly extreme examples.) Instead of making smuggling more interesting, CCP is just nuking it. It's not even the high sec smuggling that is going away. I seldom went through high sec. We smuggle past gate camps, roaming gangs, and trap orders. Now boosters will just be bought in trade hubs and moved via normal alliance/corp or third party courier services; just like the rest of the market items. I do not like this change, and I do not like that the people most intimately involved in the profession were ignored while making this decision.
The whole point seems to be the removal of the profession though.
The only reason smuggling of Boosters exists as a profession, and a very very niche one at that, is that it's inconvenient to move or even carry around Combat Boosters outside of Low and Null. CCP decided that it was better for the sandbox to make Boosters more convenient to use (which should increase demand for them, thus driving more conflict in Low and Null) but that seems to necessitate the removal of your profession, since the only reason it exists is because Boosters are hard to carry around.
I would equate this less to the removal of a core mechanic like "rats in anoms, scams, or industrial ships" and more to the removal of the enforced Warp To 15 on gates. There was a significant cottage industry in creating bookmarks to circumvent the issues it created, and CCP nuked that from orbit too. Granted there were other considerations as well (all those bookmarks were making the servers **** bricks) but the result was definitely a net positive.
So while I can sympathize with you, after all it sucks to lose your source of income in the game and especially something you developed, I think this is better overall for the game. Every solution I can think of that might preserve your profession either doesn't sufficiently address the issues that make using Boosters a massive pain or creates exploitable exceptions that still mostly render your profession moot.
I'd say you can either take this, and what you've built, and take things in a new direction or you can rage-quit and burn what you've made. Personally I would recommend the former :) |
Rob Dalvik
Arxersize Industries
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 19:33:34 -
[92] - Quote
-1
I would love to see drugs more readily available and widely used but this proposal is at the expense of entire playstyles. I would much prefer an update to smuggling or drug distribution to increase the depth of these playstyles and give them publicity.
Perhaps only legalize small amounts of drug possession and rework customs interactions. |
Kon Kre8r
Konz Korp
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 19:54:31 -
[93] - Quote
Nex Parietis wrote:As someone who just joined Es and Whizz, and was very interested in doing the smuggling activity they've done for years, this is a punch to the gut.
I suppose all there is to do in eve is buy items via market. Shoot players. Rinse Repeat.
Not a good choice, removing ideas from the game instead of expanding or adjusting them.
I am sure that if I did care about investing time and effort into that operation like you did I would be upset also. |
Terminal Insanity
Pwn 'N Play
Spaceship Samurai
931
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 01:57:58 -
[94] - Quote
LAME.
As someone who doesnt produce boosters, and is always in short supply of them, im sure this change will enable me to use boosters a lot more often.
However, wtf. This was an interesting gameplay mechanic. It added variation to the game. These small things you guys keep axing is what gives this game depth and variation. And now you're getting rid of it, in favor of.... nothing. Nothing new will be replacing it. Its just gone. Poof. Eve will now be a little less deep.
"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
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Bakuhz
Luna Oscura Clandestina Armada
K R A K E N
170
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 09:30:47 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Quick Lore Break:
In recent months the CONCORD Inner Circle has started seriously considering a new approach to the issue of New Eden's illicit booster trade. Prohibition was successful in reducing booster addiction rates, but has had serious downsides across the cluster.
The illegal booster trade has enriched the great pirate factions (especially the Serpentis Corporation and their Angel Cartel partners), and led to an increase in underworld violence as local pirate bands compete for slices of this lucrative pie.
Escalating enforcement requirements have stretched the resources of the DED and the empire customs authorities to their breaking points.
In response to these issues, the Inner Circle is planning a complete shift in their approach to boosters. Booster possession, trade and consumption by capsuleers will be legalized, and licenses for legal booster production will be available to certain non-capsuleer corporations (X-Sense being the first authorized manufacturer). Booster production and research by pirate corporations and unlicensed capsuleers will continue to be illegal.
Some CONCORD resources will be diverted to harm reduction programs (mainly focused on treating addiction among non-capsuleer populations).
This change in approach is obviously good news for the X-Sense corporation, and experts predict that it will deal a non-trivial blow to the income of the Serpentis Corporation and Angel Cartel. Nobody yet knows how these powerful pirates will respond, but it's a safe assumption that they won't take it lying down.
In practical terms we are planning to legalize all raw and processed boosters in all areas of Empire space, starting in the 118.6 release at the end of June.
This change will only impact boosters (there is a similar but separate change planned that will also legalize Ectoplasm). Other illegal items will continue to have their bans enforced by empire customs officers (so if you try and carry slaves through the Republic they will continue to be cross with you).
Manufacturing and reactions for boosters aren't changing at this time, and will continue to be restricted in highsec space. CONCORD is only providing licences for booster manufacturing to X-Sense at the moment meaning that capsuleer production will continue to be prohibited by the empires. From a design perspective, we're happy with this section of industry being unique to lower security bands.
Beyond the storyline connection, we want to make this change because the current system of booster illegality is not serving a strong purpose in gameplay. It makes the use of boosters annoying for many pilots, and causes other frustrations such as blocking contracting of ships that have boosters in their cargoholds.
We won't rule out potentially making more changes to the system of item legality and smuggling in the future (including but not limited to complete reworks of the system) but we believe that this change is a significant benefit to the game by itself.
This change is on SISI now so we encourage you to give it a try and let us know what you think.
Thanks and happy boosting!
can we get an update on how this is goign to work with POS tower becoming useless in the near future? how is the production going to work?
It's quite a large investment to produce drugs so a little ehadsup on what actually is going to happen to the production of it might be nice?
https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6035
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 11:43:39 -
[96] - Quote
Bakuhz wrote:
can we get an update on how this is going to work with POS tower becoming useless in the near future? how is the production going to work?
It's quite a large investment to produce drugs so a little heads up on what actually is going to happen to the production of it might be nice?
For now, no changes. When the structures get round to redoing reactions, then you'll need a new structure, but until then, it'll remain in POS.
_May_ come in the Fall release, but reactions have always stood to the side of industry.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1255
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 11:48:39 -
[97] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Bakuhz wrote:
can we get an update on how this is going to work with POS tower becoming useless in the near future? how is the production going to work?
It's quite a large investment to produce drugs so a little heads up on what actually is going to happen to the production of it might be nice?
For now, no changes. When the structures get round to redoing reactions, then you'll need a new structure, but until then, it'll remain in POS. _May_ come in the Fall release, but reactions have always stood to the side of industry.
Thank you Steve for keeping us informed 
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
435
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 14:15:04 -
[98] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:LAME.
As someone who doesnt produce boosters, and is always in short supply of them, im sure this change will enable me to use boosters a lot more often.
However, wtf. This was an interesting gameplay mechanic. It added variation to the game. These small things you guys keep axing is what gives this game depth and variation. And now you're getting rid of it, in favor of.... nothing. Nothing new will be replacing it. Its just gone. Poof. Eve will now be a little less deep.
It's being replaced by wider availability of boosters, which means more people making the choice of whether to use them or not and if so which ones to use and how to deal with the drawbacks. The "in favor of" here is "in favor of more people using a mechanic that has historically been so niche probably 95% or more of players never see it or interact with it except *maybe* getting killed by someone using a Booster".
This idea that things that are changed *need* a direct and equivalent replacement is a little bit ridiculous. The idea is that something is being changed because the outcome of the change is more desirable than the status quo. This is always going to involve some kind of trade-off, whether it's the death of niche playstyles or wider or more restricted availability of some good or service.
As things stand the Booster trade has a fairly limited impact on a fairly small number of people. Opening that up so that more people can be (and will likely choose to be) impacted by Boosters and their mechanics gives CCP a lot more that they could potentially do with Boosters and surrounding mechanics. |
Rob Dalvik
Arxersize Industries
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 18:57:11 -
[99] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
As things stand the Booster trade has a fairly limited impact on a fairly small number of people. Opening that up so that more people can be (and will likely choose to be) impacted by Boosters and their mechanics gives CCP a lot more that they could potentially do with Boosters and surrounding mechanics.
You seem to be discounting the fact that booster use and availability can be bolstered without the complete elimination of smuggling. I would wager a big reason why smuggling is performed by so few people is that it, along with customs, are poorly defined mechanics. Take a step back from eve for a moment and imagine a smuggling profession in a space sim and Im sure your mind can go wild with possibilities of experience. Now suppose you find a space 'sim/game' that doesnt involve smuggling. You probably would view that as a prime opportunity for a new, deep playstyle.
CCP's solution to this is unimaginative at best. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 19:00:09 -
[100] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:It's being replaced by wider availability of boosters, which means more people making the choice of whether to use them or not and if so which ones to use and how to deal with the drawbacks. The "in favor of" here is "in favor of more people using a mechanic that has historically been so niche probably 95% or more of players never see it or interact with it except *maybe* getting killed by someone using a Booster".
This idea that things that are changed *need* a direct and equivalent replacement is a little bit ridiculous. The idea is that something is being changed because the outcome of the change is more desirable than the status quo. This is always going to involve some kind of trade-off, whether it's the death of niche playstyles or wider or more restricted availability of some good or service.
As things stand the Booster trade has a fairly limited impact on a fairly small number of people. Opening that up so that more people can be (and will likely choose to be) impacted by Boosters and their mechanics gives CCP a lot more that they could potentially do with Boosters and surrounding mechanics.
In this exact case they indeed sacrifice minority for the well-being of majority. It is sad, but I can deal with it.
What I am really against is the _trend_ of removing features that actually work and giving nothing instead. Even the best release of the recent time, Citadel, comes with a bitter pill: citadels dont have racial flavors. The gameplay behind it - poof - just gone. They do it step-by-step, in small iterations, they justify it every time: not enough dev time, used by small percent of population, too hard for new players, etc. And then suddenly - no one wants to log in, why could it be? |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
435
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 19:24:12 -
[101] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:In this exact case they indeed sacrifice minority for the well-being of majority. It is sad, but I can deal with it.
What I am really against is the _trend_ of removing features that actually work and giving nothing instead. Even the best release of the recent time, Citadel, comes with a bitter pill: citadels dont have racial flavors. The gameplay behind it - poof - just gone. They do it step-by-step, in small iterations, they justify it every time: not enough dev time, used by small percent of population, too hard for new players, etc. And then suddenly - no one wants to log in, why could it be?
This is really really *really* speculative. You're pointing something out, that pain points or things that almost no one uses, keep getting changed or removed (by your own admission to the benefit of the majority) and then connecting that to the idea that the game is dying (this isn't really well supported, and CCP as a company is doing better than it ever has been) but without any strong evidence of a connection between points A and B.
Personally, based on what I've read and the games that I've played, I think there's more evidence of MMOs dying because the devs left bad systems in place because a minority of players found them usable than of games dying because they made poor systems better and more usable.
If you have a suggestion for something to replace this without defeating the purpose of these changes then by all means suggest away, badger the CSM about it, or whatever else. Maybe push for something else to be made illegal |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
286
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 21:24:47 -
[102] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:If you have a suggestion for something to replace this without defeating the purpose of these changes then by all means suggest away, badger the CSM about it, or whatever else. Maybe push for something else to be made illegal
I did.
We have a CSM member here in this thread, who position himself as industrialist. But he seems not bothered at all. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 03:56:18 -
[103] - Quote
-1
Why remove a whole profession and game style from the game?
Oh, wait, it's easier than actually improving the existing mechanics!
That's why!
You can do better than this CCP, you are taking away the sand from the sandbox.  |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3299
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 06:30:19 -
[104] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:-1 Why remove a whole profession and game style from the game? Oh, wait, it's easier than actually improving the existing mechanics! That's why! You can do better than this CCP, you are taking away the sand from the sandbox.
Considering the people claiming to be in this profession in this thread have themselves mainly talked about low & null, I really doubt they are actually having their profession taken away. Since their profession really is called logistics.
The only thing being actually taken away is the need to avoid randomly generated customs NPC's & a bunch of hassle with contracts. Someone still has to move the drugs around avoiding players now, and I'm betting most of the smart ones already do things like use jump bridges to move their drugs, exactly like..... all the rest of the logistics guys do when moving all the other products.
And in return they get a much larger market to make isk on. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
286
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 11:35:34 -
[105] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Considering the people claiming to be in this profession in this thread have themselves mainly talked about low & null, I really doubt they are actually having their profession taken away. Since their profession really is called logistics.
The only thing being actually taken away is the need to avoid randomly generated customs NPC's & a bunch of hassle with contracts. Someone still has to move the drugs around avoiding players now, and I'm betting most of the smart ones already do things like use jump bridges to move their drugs, exactly like..... all the rest of the logistics guys do when moving all the other products.
And in return they get a much larger market to make isk on.
You have no idea how nullsec logistics work, do you? |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
438
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 14:38:18 -
[106] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:If you have a suggestion for something to replace this without defeating the purpose of these changes then by all means suggest away, badger the CSM about it, or whatever else. Maybe push for something else to be made illegal I did.We have a CSM member here in this thread, who position himself as industrialist. But he seems not bothered at all.
I don't think this should be viewed as all that surprising, from an industrialist's perspective this is nothing but a good thing for manufacturers of Combat Boosters. This should increase the usability of their product exponentially and thus also increase demand for it, which will increase their profits since Boosters still need to be manufactured in Low and Null and are thus riskier to produce than most other goods.
The play-style that's actually taking a hit here is smuggling, though personally I think trying to warp through gates before NPCs randomly scan you isn't terribly interesting as mechanics go. It's either very very easy to defeat or incredibly incredibly hard, depending almost entirely on the SP allocation and ship choice of the player in question.
If I really wanted to move something past gates I'd probably do it in an insta-warp cloaky. Move the product to the nearest low-sec system through Cov-Ops Jump Bridges, and then either go the rest of the way in an insta-warp Inty or just keep using the cloaky. The few times I've had to use something like this to move product the only time I've so much as taken a sec-status hit was actually warping *to* a gate when the warp took a little too long to trigger, which isn't really engaging gameplay it's just bad luck with RNG.
Skia Aumer wrote:You have no idea how nullsec logistics work, do you?
This seems like focusing on the wrong side of things to me. The discussion here has very little to do with Null-Sec Logistics and more to do with the logistics of moving Combat Boosters. It doesn't really matter if he's right about how Null Logistics works, it matters if he's right about how Combat Boosters are moved. |
Max Caulfield
Contina AG Mauren
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 16:06:44 -
[107] - Quote
CCP: Years ahead of real-world policy. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
287
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 17:12:23 -
[108] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:You have no idea how nullsec logistics work, do you? This seems like focusing on the wrong side of things to me. The discussion here has very little to do with Null-Sec Logistics and more to do with the logistics of moving Combat Boosters. It doesn't really matter if he's right about how Null Logistics works, it matters if he's right about how Combat Boosters are moved.
The focus is clear: organized groups do logistics via jump-freighters. This is how it works. You buy stuff in Jita, you set courier contract and later get it in your alliance home system, or vise versa. While hauling from nullsec to Jita has some peculiarities (because of suicide squads), logistics from Jita is really straightforward. Cyno up, jump, dock. Login next cyno, rinse, repeat. Usually the entire thing is done by 1 human. That's it, the whole gameplay. Exciting, right? |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
438
|
Posted - 2016.06.16 17:36:43 -
[109] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:You have no idea how nullsec logistics work, do you? This seems like focusing on the wrong side of things to me. The discussion here has very little to do with Null-Sec Logistics and more to do with the logistics of moving Combat Boosters. It doesn't really matter if he's right about how Null Logistics works, it matters if he's right about how Combat Boosters are moved. The focus is clear: organized groups do logistics via jump-freighters. This is how it works. You buy stuff in Jita, you set courier contract and later get it in your alliance home system, or vise versa. While hauling from nullsec to Jita has some peculiarities (because of suicide squads), logistics from Jita is really straightforward. Cyno up, jump, dock. Login next cyno, rinse, repeat. Usually the entire thing is done by 1 human. That's it, the whole gameplay. Exciting, right?
That's pretty much what the other player said. Personally I'm not seeing much difference between this and a similar way of moving boosters. The main difference is Boosters are small enough that you can jump them without a freighter, which means by Covert Cyno, further reducing the risk inherent in the process.
Once you've got the Combat Boosters into high-sec, so long as you're using a cloaky ship, you're under very very little risk of getting caught by a Customs Officer, and even if one does manage to scan you that's entirely an RNG check.
How is that significantly better than Null Sec Logistics? |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
25
|
Posted - 2016.06.18 14:16:00 -
[110] - Quote
The War on Drugs is over! In spaaaaaaace! |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3302
|
Posted - 2016.06.18 17:12:04 -
[111] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
That's pretty much what the other player said. Personally I'm not seeing much difference between this and a similar way of moving boosters. The main difference is Boosters are small enough that you can jump them without a freighter, which means by Covert Cyno, further reducing the risk inherent in the process.
Once you've got the Combat Boosters into high-sec, so long as you're using a cloaky ship, you're under very very little risk of getting caught by a Customs Officer, and even if one does manage to scan you that's entirely an RNG check.
How is that significantly better than Null Sec Logistics?
My point was more that this will not significantly change even if drugs are legal.
The only change to risk is in highsec where it's a change to NPC risk only. Suicide gankers might still target you.
Low & Null player risk will remain exactly the same. Using JF's might even increase the risk instead of using BR's & Covert Cyno's. Drugs will still need shipping to markets, and you can still sell direct to customers also just like now, nothing makes you use Jita ever. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
441
|
Posted - 2016.06.19 00:38:33 -
[112] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
My point was more that this will not significantly change even if drugs are legal.
The only change to risk is in highsec where it's a change to NPC risk only. Suicide gankers might still target you.
Low & Null player risk will remain exactly the same. Using JF's might even increase the risk instead of using BR's & Covert Cyno's. Drugs will still need shipping to markets, and you can still sell direct to customers also just like now, nothing makes you use Jita ever.
I wouldn't say this is really accurate. Nothing makes you use Jita but if you can then it's much more convenient for the buyer so whoever does sell there has an advantage in the market. Case and point, as soon as Faction and Deadspace modules became available on the Market tab the contracts market for them almost entirely dried up.
That's actually a thought, would it be worthwhile to allow these items to be moved but not list them on the markets, or would this just create inconvenience rather than add depth? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2593
|
Posted - 2016.06.19 14:13:54 -
[113] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
My point was more that this will not significantly change even if drugs are legal.
The only change to risk is in highsec where it's a change to NPC risk only. Suicide gankers might still target you.
Low & Null player risk will remain exactly the same. Using JF's might even increase the risk instead of using BR's & Covert Cyno's. Drugs will still need shipping to markets, and you can still sell direct to customers also just like now, nothing makes you use Jita ever.
I wouldn't say this is really accurate. Nothing makes you use Jita but if you can then it's much more convenient for the buyer so whoever does sell there has an advantage in the market. Case and point, as soon as Faction and Deadspace modules became available on the Market tab the contracts market for them almost entirely dried up. That's actually a thought, would it be worthwhile to allow these items to be moved but not list them on the markets, or would this just create inconvenience rather than add depth?
That just creates inconvenience.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Limited Expectations
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:01:00 -
[114] - Quote
From buyers perspective i love this change, no more wasting the pill (or not buying at all), or asking fleet to bump you back to gate because for some reason the roam went trough 2 jumps high sec.
Dedicated booster traders (all 5 in the galaxy) will lose the market, but on the other hand the volume and gas miner profit will increase 10 times. Whole fleets, in all regions will buy this stuff. Atm it's only FAX machine pilots and some l33t solo/ small gang pvp'ers. |
iHades
Kundalinis National Protection And Security
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 10:02:19 -
[115] - Quote
+1 at last something good from ccp.
please make sure the drugs are charges like the nanite paste show we can put the ships in the fleet hangar with the drugs on the ship
> need more nightmares
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Obearoth HuanTao
Perkone
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 00:25:01 -
[116] - Quote
Another part of this great game gets their training-wheels put on. There are only so many nails needed to close this coffin CCP.
Eve is ever faster becomming space-wow... yawn
You could've made intelligent additions to this best of games, yet most all you do is taking the lazy RL "best for your economics" choice
/me starts looking for that next game with a cliff-side challenge |
Obearoth HuanTao
Perkone
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 00:29:54 -
[117] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:-1 You can do better than this CCP, you are taking away the sand from the sandbox.
+1 Best analogy in a long time.
Eve is fast becomming more and more like a game of whack-a-mole style of playing |
Lord Kalus
L0CAL SP1KE
Circle-Of-Two
145
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Posted - 2016.06.26 19:10:56 -
[118] - Quote
DRUGS FOR EVERYONE!
*tosses confetti*
Join Domunation Horde, for All Shall Perish
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Lord Kalus
L0CAL SP1KE
Circle-Of-Two
145
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 19:11:55 -
[119] - Quote
Obearoth HuanTao wrote:Another part of this great game gets their training-wheels put on. There are only so many nails needed to close this coffin CCP.
Eve is ever faster becomming space-wow... yawn
You could've made intelligent additions to this best of games, yet most all you do is taking the lazy RL "best for your economics" choice
/me starts looking for that next game with a cliff-side challenge
I hear runescape could use some new players.
Join Domunation Horde, for All Shall Perish
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TravoltaZpl
Senators of Eridan
Red Alliance
0
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Posted - 2016.06.27 06:41:59 -
[120] - Quote
Ccp ruin game from patch to pacth. 2009 Eve was interesting complicated game, now its a easy sandbox with a lot of stupid patches for noobs( this 10k sp for killing npc. drugs, and etc bulls**t). Rly old players from 2005-2010 dont wanna play this casual game like you do now. Look at online, its dropping every day
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1248
|
Posted - 2016.06.27 13:14:24 -
[121] - Quote
I removed an off topic post.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
55635
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 11:28:32 -
[122] - Quote
Gotta say I don't like this game change even though I'm gonna take full advantage of it and move Drugs for Booster production through high security to sell in Market.
Could have easily made a special 'Smugglers Skill' and or 'Contraband Can' to smuggle Drugs past Customs at Jump Gates. At least that would have helped boost the Smuggling Trade in this game. Instead CCP removes more content from the game.
TravoltaZpl wrote:Ccp ruin game from patch to pacth. 2009 Eve was interesting complicated game, now its a easy sandbox with a lot of stupid patches for noobs( this 10k sp for killing npc. drugs, and etc bulls**t). Rly old players from 2005-2010 dont wanna play this casual game like you do now. Look at online, its dropping every day
So very true. Couldn't have said it any better myself.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Cade Windstalker
489
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Posted - 2016.07.12 03:11:19 -
[123] - Quote
How does mitigating what is basically just an RNG check on every gate you jump through in High Sec, or removing it entirely, good gameplay? Doesn't fix the issue that Boosters were almost unusable for most players because you can't jump through gates in high sec with them. |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2016.07.17 19:15:05 -
[124] - Quote
Well making boosters legal doesnt change the fact than most people won t use them in most case because of the painanalty risk...
Outside of very specific cases combat boosters are mostly useless. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1322
|
Posted - 2016.07.18 10:02:13 -
[125] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Well making boosters legal doesnt change the fact than most people won t use them in most case because of the painanalty risk...
Outside of very specific cases combat boosters are mostly useless.
I disagree and I use them very often. Sometimes I even try to sound intoxicated on comms to relay side-effects for the audience. But nobody listens to e2..
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 02:52:36 -
[126] - Quote
Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.
And a buff that may provide a devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...
Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue. |
Cade Windstalker
507
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 04:53:43 -
[127] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.
And a buff that may provide a random devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...
Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue.
Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.
Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games. |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2016.07.23 05:07:32 -
[128] - Quote
Quote:Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.
Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.
Never said the debuff should be removed i said it should be predictable,by removing the randomness in the trade.
Currently the design is failing the purpose, hence why i m saying they are useless. |
Cade Windstalker
507
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 05:20:21 -
[129] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Quote:Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with.
Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games. Never said the debuff should be removed i said it should be predictable,by removing the randomness in the trade. Currently the design is failing the purpose, hence why i m saying they are useless.
And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.
IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3437
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 10:01:42 -
[130] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.
IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.
What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day.
It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all. |
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
644
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 12:13:51 -
[131] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.
IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.
What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day. It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all.
Hey could someone be so kind as to explain a quick point about some of the skills related to combat boosters?
For a quick example, "Neurotoxin recovery" is trained to reduce the chances of negative consequences for those boosters. Up to level 5, that's a 25% chance reduction. Using "improved" boosters as an example, their chance of side effect is 25%. So if you level 5 "Neurotoxin recovery" and get that 25% reduction, does that reduce the chance to zero, or does it reduce it to 18.75%?
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Cade Windstalker
507
|
Posted - 2016.07.23 20:31:04 -
[132] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Hey could someone be so kind as to explain a quick point about some of the skills related to combat boosters?
For a quick example, "Neurotoxin recovery" is trained to reduce the chances of negative consequences for those boosters. Up to level 5, that's a 25% chance reduction. Using "improved" boosters as an example, their chance of side effect is 25%. So if you level 5 "Neurotoxin recovery" and get that 25% reduction, does that reduce the chance to zero, or does it reduce it to 18.75%?
There's a great infographic that explains almost everything in great detail.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:
And you don't have to use them. A lot of people disagree with you though.
IMO making the debuffs completely predictable makes them less interesting and turns them from a potentially risky trade-off to another simple min-maxing tool.
What CCP themselves discussed at one fanfest is if people get a negative, they tend to simply not undock for PvP that day. It was a couple of years ago now so I suppose in theory that trend could have changed, however given all the new drugs introduced have no downside I seriously doubt that trend has changed much at all.
Fair points, but the "new" drugs are mostly attribute boosters, which don't affect combat directly, and small increases like the Quafe which are closer in impact to Synth boosters which don't have a downside anyway.
I don't think they could reasonably remove the negatives and keep the positives as they are, though you could certainly make a case for removing the chance to get multiple negative effects and reworking the mechanics around that. IMO that would keep them interesting and allow for the high magnitude effects while taking away some of the really spiky results of the RNG element.
Alternatively you could make it so that multiple effects means less severe effects, so instead of -10% to one thing you get -6% to two things or -4.5% to three things. Maybe even introduce "Custom Boosters" with lower effect than Strong but you get to remove one downside from rolling in exchange for higher cost and slightly lower magnitude. |
Sgt Ocker
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
1119
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 01:40:04 -
[133] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Nya Kittenheart wrote:Feel free to disagree,fact is combat boosters are a temporary buff (aka elixir ,potions or whatever you wanna call them) like in any other mmorpg ,the kind of consumable you use when you want to make a difference.
And a buff that may provide a random devastating debuff when consumed is not going to see is usage increase for the simple fact that you can t trust them when needed outside of very specific cases, seems like you fall in that category.Debuff should always be known before consumption RNG is a *****...
Finally having such a wide pool of penalties ,is what crippling combat boosters way much more than any transport issue. Most people simply use them on fits where either the debuff doesn't hurt them much if at all, or the buff is worth whatever debuff they get saddled with. Besides, having the debuffs makes them *far* more interesting than simple buff potions in other games.
What about when the "debuff" counters the buff?
Using drugs with side effects that can negatively affect what your using the drug for - Isn't interesting, it's a simple gamble (one you often lose) as to whether you've just wasted a booster slot for minimal gain.
EG; Improved Sooth Sayer
30% chance of side effect
Falloff bonus 15%
Turret Optimal Range Penalty -25%.
Improved Crash is even better;
Explosion Radius Bonus -25%
Missile Velocity Penalty -25%
Get hit with that one, you've wasted a booster slot.
I'm not saying drugs should be a guaranteed buff but at least make them so the debuff doesn't affect the buff your seeking.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Cade Windstalker
508
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Posted - 2016.07.25 14:13:09 -
[134] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:What about when the "debuff" counters the buff?
Using drugs with side effects that can negatively affect what your using the drug for - Isn't interesting, it's a simple gamble (one you often lose) as to whether you've just wasted a booster slot for minimal gain.
EG; Improved Sooth Sayer
30% chance of side effect
Falloff bonus 15%
Turret Optimal Range Penalty -25%.
Improved Crash is even better;
Explosion Radius Bonus -25%
Missile Velocity Penalty -25%
Get hit with that one, you've wasted a booster slot.
I'm not saying drugs should be a guaranteed buff but at least make them so the debuff doesn't affect the buff your seeking.
I believe both of those are fine, if not really ideal. The falloff and range bonus hurts a bit, but if you're using something like Autocannons, or even Blasters with a falloff bonus'd ship, then you're still getting some benefit, just less than you would otherwise.
I believe the Missile Velocity penalty is to the speed of the missiles, not their application stat. If I'm wrong and that is Explosion Velocity then I agree completely that's stupid and should be changed.
Like I said though, I can get behind some tweaking to Booster mechanics to make them a bit more user friendly so long as they don't just turn into "buff pots" where there's no reason not to use them, ever, like a Cap Power Relay on a ship with no Shield Booster. |
Mundi Comedentis
Ood Central
5
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Posted - 2016.08.20 12:34:13 -
[135] - Quote
I am not very good with words. but dont partly legialize it. L
LEGALIZE IT, all the way. allow production in Hi Sec. do it the legal way we do in real life. TAX it, ISSUE Premits for ISK Fee's |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
295
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Posted - 2016.10.03 21:25:36 -
[136] - Quote
Galaxxis wrote:So won't this render the newly-introduced SoE boosters obsolete? Sure they have no side-effects, but with decent skills you can take standard boosters without getting side-effects anyway and they give a much bigger boost.
Not true. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Angry Dragons
Circle-Of-Two
794
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 04:36:03 -
[137] - Quote
Mundi Comedentis wrote:I am not very good with words. but dont partly legialize it. L
LEGALIZE IT, all the way. allow production in Hi Sec. do it the legal way we do in real life. TAX it, ISSUE Premits for ISK Fee's
No. That's a terrible idea. Production in highsec is already the overwhelming majority. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
189
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Posted - 2016.10.11 19:16:14 -
[138] - Quote
They've basically turned an interesting gameplay element into a universal power creep. 
Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
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