| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 18:37:06 -
[1] - Quote
Hi everyone,
I spent my sunday baby sitting some market orders in Jita I noticed strange behaviors from my "competitors" in buy orders. Just because I'm not so smart and EVE people is so clever, I respectfully submit to your attention 3 screen captures I took. Your comments will be welcome.
Thanks
http://imgur.com/iCvbHOp
http://imgur.com/6L4ffDF
http://imgur.com/ZDQBx5L
|

Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
955
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 18:53:19 -
[2] - Quote
They are ignoring orders not placed in Jita and forgetting about the range coloumn. Its quite common for station traders to disregard all other locations, bit of a silly practice now we have off-shore tax citadels.
Proud user of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
|

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 19:03:13 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for your reply
Why do they keep playing the 0.01 isk game constantly with no hope of a match before a long time ?
Would you spend time changing each 5-20 min your orders if you see a big order above which will covers yours for hours ?
In 2 of the 3 captures, there is no order older than 40 min right to the red bracket. My order (blue) is 2 hours old
What kind of operator repeats over and over the same silly practice ? (->read stupid routine, hint, hint) |

Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
955
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 19:17:34 -
[4] - Quote
Do you know what. I never thought of that.
I hope its true, the less bots the better. It might be worthwhile reporting them all to CCP. They need all the help they can get with market bots.
Proud user of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
|

Morrigan Nighe
133
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 20:06:15 -
[5] - Quote
They most likely have their range set to 0 jumps via the little cogwheel on the right upper side of the trade window. If you do that your order would get filtered out, because it is 1 jump out. They simply don't see it. |

William Ortega
30plus Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 20:39:35 -
[6] - Quote
Also, they may not be competing with 'YOU', but rather competing with each other.
Lets say I'm trying to buy/sell something and someone (like you) comes in and undercuts me by a margin I'm not willing to go beyond. I do not need to out compete you for the top spot - I just need be in the second spot so when your order clears, mine is the next one to go... Voila... I just sold my stuff, still reasonably quickly and w/o taking a 3mil loss. In Jita, orders clear pretty fast.
Now, I'm not sure this is exactly what is going on in your particular case or if it is indeed the case with bots. |

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
221
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:31:51 -
[7] - Quote
They figure that the orders above them are going to be exhausted, so they'll be able to get a much cheaper one. There's also the possibility that it's all the same guy trying to make it look like there's a lot more competition at that price point than there really is.
A signature :o
|

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:37:58 -
[8] - Quote
Morrigan Nighe wrote:They most likely have their range set to 0 jumps via the little cogwheel on the right upper side of the trade window. If you do that your order would get filtered out, because it is 1 jump out. They simply don't see it.
Yes it's a possibility. But what would be the benefit to be blind and ignorant to trade ? If you had billions involved in trading, would you like to be blind to what happens around ? |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:49:36 -
[9] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:They figure that the orders above them are going to be exhausted, so they'll be able to get a much cheaper one. There's also the possibility that it's all the same guy trying to make it look like there's a lot more competition at that price point than there really is.
So if you see and order for 20 ships 6 Mil above yours, you gonna spend many hours changing each few minutes your own orders just to make people believe that there is a lot of demand for this particular item at a lower price than the actual one ? Quite complicated explanation but ok, I respect your point of view and thanks for your input.
if you have time, google this : Occam's razor
|

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
273
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:52:34 -
[10] - Quote
when you got a market bot you don't got to do it yourself - market bots don't complain and they don't get tired
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:56:06 -
[11] - Quote
William Ortega wrote:Also, they may not be competing with 'YOU', but rather competing with each other.
Lets say I'm trying to buy/sell something and someone (like you) comes in and undercuts me by a margin I'm not willing to go beyond. I do not need to out compete you for the top spot - I just need be in the second spot so when your order clears, mine is the next one to go... Voila... I just sold my stuff, still reasonably quickly and w/o taking a 3mil loss. In Jita, orders clear pretty fast.
Now, I'm not sure this is exactly what is going on in your particular case or if it is indeed the case with bots.
This is a possibility. Would you change your order, let's say 4 times per hour, for 3-4 hours (buy orders for T2 ships are no so fast to complete even in Jita, even on sundays), in the hope to pocket 3 Mil extra buck, meanwhile 4-6 others traders do the same ?
|

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 22:20:48 -
[12] - Quote
To illustrate another fresh pic.
http://imgur.com/sZ7VvCT
I've set a buy order for 10 Curses 3 hours ago.
4 Curses were bought (it took 3 hours), 6 still to buy
My order has not be changed for 3 hours
Below, 2 orders changed 25 minutes ago
I buy Curses @ 202.5 Mil. orders below are all for 1 unit @ 201.5 Mil
So considering what has been said above, people is fighting to buy ONE curse ONE million cheaper ? Ignoring that there is 35 Mil margin to make ? |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 22:34:07 -
[13] - Quote
another pic for Deimos this time : http://imgur.com/WYKyQd5
My order for 15 Deimos @ 200 Mil each 5 hours ago, still 3 remaining to buy
See under, 7 fresher (<2 hours) orders @ 199.900.000 isks
profit margin is around 16 Mil after taxes and fees. I sold 8 Deimos at this price since I placed this buy order |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 23:57:09 -
[14] - Quote
update 1 hour 1/2 after for Deimos : http://imgur.com/b3CWiNC |

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
221
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 00:07:27 -
[15] - Quote
Dol Sadum wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:They figure that the orders above them are going to be exhausted, so they'll be able to get a much cheaper one. There's also the possibility that it's all the same guy trying to make it look like there's a lot more competition at that price point than there really is. So if you see an order for 20 ships 6 Mil above yours, you gonna spend many hours changing each few minutes your own orders just to make people believe that there is a lot of demand for this particular item at a lower price than the actual one ? Quite complicated explanation but ok, I respect your point of view and thanks for your input. if you have time, google this : Occam's razor That only works if people behave logically and rationally. There's nothing that says this trader isn't crazy and/or bored.
Maybe they wanted their very own topic.
A signature :o
|

William Ortega
30plus Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 01:45:25 -
[16] - Quote
Dol Sadum wrote:William Ortega wrote:Also, they may not be competing with 'YOU', but rather competing with each other.
Lets say I'm trying to buy/sell something and someone (like you) comes in and undercuts me by a margin I'm not willing to go beyond. I do not need to out compete you for the top spot - I just need be in the second spot so when your order clears, mine is the next one to go... Voila... I just sold my stuff, still reasonably quickly and w/o taking a 3mil loss. In Jita, orders clear pretty fast.
Now, I'm not sure this is exactly what is going on in your particular case or if it is indeed the case with bots. This is a possibility. Would you manually ofc change your order, let's say 4 times per hour, for 3-4 hours (buy orders for T2 ships are no so fast to complete even in Jita, even on sundays), in the hope to pocket 3 Mil extra buck, meanwhile 4-6 others traders do the same ?
I have a fairly small T2 operation and not terribly big pockets, so I usually cook my T2 ships in batches (like 5-10 HACs at a time). So when I'm buying up the mats for my next batch or selling my previous one, I will play the .01 game for first or second place... if you buy all your mats on the market, including moon goo (like I do) the margins are pretty slim - something like 5-10 mil per T2 cruiser... so yea... I'd do it for 3 mil extra.
That being said, I'll do the bidding war thing for an hour at most. I won't spend half a Sunday on it. So like you said, Occam's Razor - it is possible that you're looking at a bot. On the other hand, it could be an OCD (or CDO rather... since that is in alphabetical order) small fry like me trying to eke out that extra few mil out of their batch. |

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
26
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 02:04:27 -
[17] - Quote
I try to diversify my portfolio as much as I can to make a little bit of ISK on as much as I could. Project Discovery, mining in high-sec and in low-sec for minerals which later get used for manufacturing, harvesting PI materials, and finally market trading.
But one thing I noticed recently about market trading is how traditional market trading is starting to feel. As Archibald Thistlewaite III pointed out earlier in this thread, those "off-shore tax citadels" seem to have made an impact to some degree on the way trading works. As I recall during my last visit to the system, Perimeter (next door to Jita) has its own Astrahus Citadel not far from the stargate. Depending on which economic hub you are coming from, that 1 jump difference can make in impact on the haulers who are looking to keep their trips as short as possible because time is ISK. But as I can see from the rest of this discussion, that doesn't seem to be the only advantage that citadels have over the NPC stations.
Tax and reprocessing rates are also another thing. I have been to citadels that offered better reprocessing rates than NPC stations and that are open for everyone. I'm curious now as to the real impact that the citadels are making in regards to trade. |

Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
326
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 02:12:30 -
[18] - Quote
Dol Sadum wrote:Thanks for your reply
Why do they keep playing the 0.01 isk game constantly with no hope of a match before a long time ?
Would you spend time changing each 5-20 min your orders if you see a big order above which will covers yours for hours ?
In 2 of the 3 captures, there is no order older than 40 min right to the red bracket. My order (blue) is 2 hours old
What kind of operator repeats over and over the same "silly practice" ? (->read stupid routine, hint, hint)
Answer is easy.
Its a robot.
They just activate a program that automatically changes it for them. No effort. They go to work. They play other games. They go to vacation in the Bahamas. And all the while, the bot program is changing their market orders automatically.
Its all robots and automatons. |

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
26
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 02:15:32 -
[19] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:Dol Sadum wrote:Thanks for your reply
Why do they keep playing the 0.01 isk game constantly with no hope of a match before a long time ?
Would you spend time changing each 5-20 min your orders if you see a big order above which will covers yours for hours ?
In 2 of the 3 captures, there is no order older than 40 min right to the red bracket. My order (blue) is 2 hours old
What kind of operator repeats over and over the same "silly practice" ? (->read stupid routine, hint, hint) Answer is easy. Its a robot.They just activate a program that automatically changes it for them. No effort. They go to work. They play other games. They go to vacation in the Bahamas. And all the while, the bot program is changing their market orders automatically. Its all robots and automatons.
Too bad you can't gank them inside the stations. I think this is where those Project Nova mercenaries can be of real use one day.     |

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
274
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 02:52:30 -
[20] - Quote
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
There is a forum section tailor made for this discussion. USE IT .
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 05:35:58 -
[21] - Quote
This discussion is NOT about bonds, margins, or studying market stuff. I'm curious to know why is it ever so disturbing for some players so simply face the fact that automated routines are in use in this game ?
This discussion is about possible TOS violation and about acquiring in game currency at an increased rate while not actually playing the game.
That's why I decided to post in the general discussion instead of the much more confidential market discussions forum.
I hope the moderators will let this thread at this place |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 05:43:13 -
[22] - Quote
Update on Deimos : yesterday late : http://imgur.com/o8TVza0
This morning : http://imgur.com/7zkJOEW
|

Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
3
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 06:02:35 -
[23] - Quote
I haven't looked closely into the fuckery you are encountering, but jita is rife with bots. I have often spotted them, they are easily spotted. So easily spotted it is obvious to me CCP does not care.
Good luck in your attempt to get cpp to deal with them. |

Dol Sadum
Perkone Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 06:50:20 -
[24] - Quote
Ishtars : before I updated my orders : http://imgur.com/LiSeZjl
just after update : http://imgur.com/pwEkxIX
25 minutes later : http://imgur.com/uZ8eNnM |

Riven Varlass
Perkone Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 07:02:11 -
[25] - Quote
This is disturbing. Is CCP not combating bots? |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12368
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 18:10:51 -
[26] - Quote
Riven Varlass wrote:This is disturbing. Is CCP not combating bots?
Of course they are.
Just because they aren't lining up the heads of bots on pikes outside CCP HQ in Iceland (with a live feed on the launcher) doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything - they rarely if ever release details on the results of mass bot-related bannings. However, I suspect that a synergistic result of CODE operations, player vigilance with the 'report bot' button, and CCP's own behind-the-scene actions have meant that New Eden is a lot freer of bots than when I first started, in 2008.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|

Gal Desh
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 18:19:44 -
[27] - Quote
I guess I'm not really sure of the problem you are trying to point out. I see orders that were updated after yours that were less than your order, but that doesn't indicate a bot to me.
In fact, there are several reasons why this happens. I do this frequently myself.
These are only my opinions and how I choose to play the game, but here is what I do / have seen:
1. Filters for location of buy/sell orders. Maybe those adjusting their prices aren't interested in orders outside of the Jita station and they are banking that people that are buying want everything in the same station for convenience sake. Same for buying, I'd rather not buy stuff scattered throughout the region/system if I can get the same items in a single location for a reasonable price. Saves on transport time.
2. How do I know, as a buyer, that you don't also have the lowest sell order and you are trying to get the price higher? So I might ignore certain higher orders, if they are significant.
3. When I see someone increase a buy order by a significant margin over what everyone else is increasing, I see that as an outlier. I've often had .01 isk wars with people below the highest price and battle for 2nd or 3rd. If and when several others bid above that significant increase, then I might bite and go higher.
As a buyer for individuals and corps, sometimes I can tell them that I should be able to get an item for a certain amount. They would give me the amount and if I can get it lower than what I stated, I can pocket a % of what I saved. Helps me and them. So saving isk is a good thing and being patient can pay off. Not necessarily being so aggressive as to chase every buy/sell order change, especially if it is significant.
Just my .02 isk. |

000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
68
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 19:27:51 -
[28] - Quote
Gal Desh wrote:I they are banking that people that are buying want everything in the same station for convenience sake
This!
I sell stuff in Dodixie and i almost always ignore the (somewhat) cheaper sell orders that are outside Dod. Why? cuz people will buy their stuff at the local supermarket for a (somewhat) higher price then be bothered to drive all the way over to another part of the state/county/city/whatever cuz there lazy and rich 
'somewhat' depends on my own gut feeling, would i bother flying xx jumps to get the item xxx iskies cheaper? yes/no? |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |