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Confessions of a T2 BPO holder

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Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:44:00 - [1] I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. ---
Anna Grahm Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:45:00 - [2] Originally by: Mortania The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). It's so easy when people refute their own point. I am NOT an alt!
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Anna Grahm Originally by: Mortania The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). It's so easy when people refute their own point. It's so easy when people ignore rational discussion. ---
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:50:00 - [4] Not you again. With another post that's essentially the same as the last one. What, your incredible small smartbomb t2 BPO that is just as good as all other BPOS isn't working out for you and you gotta make multiple posts on it here? If you actually want to make an argument worth reading, which you have yet to do, it's pretty simple. Find a t2 BPO that people think is producing an item that's way too expensive, sit in jita and calculate the price of the components and the price the item's going for. Check that for something other than your dinky smartbomb and get back to me. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Anna Grahm Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Anna Grahm Originally by: Mortania The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). It's so easy when people refute their own point. It's so easy when people ignore rational discussion. You want a rational discussion but yet you claim "There is no such thing as a T2 cartel" and then go on to cite two examples of a T2 cartel. Which is it? Is there a T2 cartel or isn't there? We already know the answer because you've stated it very clearly. Did you miss the class in logic wherein to refute an "there is no..." proof all one needs to do is cite one counterexample? You've provided two! I am NOT an alt!
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Frug Not you again. With another post that's essentially the same as the last one. What, your incredible small smartbomb t2 BPO that is just as good as all other BPOS isn't working out for you and you gotta make multiple posts on it here? If you actually want to make an argument worth reading, which you have yet to do, it's pretty simple. Find a t2 BPO that people think is producing an item that's way too expensive, sit in jita and calculate the price of the components and the price the item's going for. Check that for something other than your dinky smartbomb and get back to me. I've got plenty, chief. I didn't constuct the strawman from the Small EMP SB II for nothing. It was a calculated choice. The claim for many is that all t2 BPOs are money makers. In THAT particular thread I am refuting that point. In this one, I'm am talking about a relatively closely related topic that the problem is not in the lottery or t2 cartels but purely in the supply of a select few t2 items that most people want. ---
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Mortania The claim for many is that all t2 BPOs are money makers. In THAT particular thread I am refuting that point. Technically they all are unless you specifically choose to sell for under build price, in which case they lose money. How much money they make is a different matter though. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.02 07:57:00 - [8] Oh. You make lame arguments of no consequence or import on purpose. Twice. My bad. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Frug Oh. You make lame arguments of no consequence or import on purpose. Twice. My bad. Purposely flawed arguments can often be used to make a point, although it usually isn't the best way of going about it. That still doesn't mean that they are completely without value. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 08:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Frug Oh. You make lame arguments of no consequence or import on purpose. Twice. My bad. Three times, actually. Move along, citizen. ---
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:19:00 - [11] How can you honestly argue something when you openly admit a completely contradictory point? "The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception)". ...it's like stating, I am the greatest person in Eve (with the exception of everyone else).
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Caligulus How can you honestly argue something when you openly admit a completely contradictory point? "The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception)". ...it's like stating, I am the greatest person in Eve (with the exception of everyone else). Out of the tens of thousands of T2 BPOs (no really, do the math) you get what you pay for. I'm not going to argue there are NO t2 cartels when there are 1 or 2. But, for 99.99% of items, this is not an arguement. YET, people continue to state T2 cartel as the reason for high prices on everything from Hammerhead IIs to Signal Amplifier IIs to Ishtars to Sleipnirs. It's basically a crock. I'm admitting the two known cases so that we can get past that small exception and talk about the meat of the matter. Choose to get hung up on two items out of thousands if you'd like though. I can't control that. ---
Felysta Sandorn Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:38:00 - [13] A simple solution to the t2 BPO lottery in my eyes would be to degrade each BPO after a month and then reseed it... For example, person x gets a Vaga BPO in January, builds as many as he can in the month allocated then the BPO degrades, and comparable to the use it got, changes in to a BPC with a certain number of runs (high use = high runs). Then in February, person y gets the Vaga BPO. She builds 4 vagas for herself and the BPO is wasted, at the end of the month, the BPO turns in to a 1-run BPC and the cycle continues. This would stop people having the monopoly on certain BPOs, would make everyone happy (because everyone would get a t2 BPO), and would speed up production (you only get it for a month, so you wouldn't stick around). _________________________________________________________
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn A simple solution to the t2 BPO lottery in my eyes would be to degrade each BPO after a month and then reseed it... For example, person x gets a Vaga BPO in January, builds as many as he can in the month allocated then the BPO degrades, and comparable to the use it got, changes in to a BPC with a certain number of runs (high use = high runs). Then in February, person y gets the Vaga BPO. She builds 4 vagas for herself and the BPO is wasted, at the end of the month, the BPO turns in to a 1-run BPC and the cycle continues. This would stop people having the monopoly on certain BPOs, would make everyone happy (because everyone would get a t2 BPO), and would speed up production (you only get it for a month, so you wouldn't stick around). This would obliterate the resell market, which is how most people who have BPOs these days got them. There is no reason to detract from anyone's current play experience. There is so much supply needed now that there is no reason to remove anything from anyone. There is room to create, create and create some more. ---
Fracking Beach	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Mortania (snip) These are not the T2 cartels you are looking for...
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.02 09:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn A simple solution to the t2 BPO lottery in my eyes would be to degrade each BPO after a month and then reseed it... For example, person x gets a Vaga BPO in January, builds as many as he can in the month allocated then the BPO degrades, and comparable to the use it got, changes in to a BPC with a certain number of runs (high use = high runs). Then in February, person y gets the Vaga BPO. She builds 4 vagas for herself and the BPO is wasted, at the end of the month, the BPO turns in to a 1-run BPC and the cycle continues. This would stop people having the monopoly on certain BPOs, would make everyone happy (because everyone would get a t2 BPO), and would speed up production (you only get it for a month, so you wouldn't stick around). You do realise that you need different skills to build different t2 items? Some of them takes more than a month to train.
Something Random Gallente F.S.O. Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:04:00 - [17] Ive never understood the problem with this. In most rpg there are rare items, you may or may not get one and usually there are some you will never see although you do usually get something considered quite rare. In eve maybe thats a module, or a T2 BPO. What seems to peave most of you is the idea of the Cartels, and this is a problem that cannot be fixed due to the resell market. BPO goes to someone who either doesnt see its worth over time, or simply has no interest in marketing. The 'dollar sign' eyes shine and the BPO goes for resell, the cartel forms simply through people that have a lot of money to buy it, perhaps through teamwork - and that cascades of course. Cartel born. Now how do you propose to have both rare items for that 'I think i won eve' moment we all would like to see AND stop people from getting rich and hoarding a lot of those moments. You cant. And yes i think T2 prices are very unfair. But i also see a big wonder of the game being obliterated at the moment through people who seem to never be happy with anything. The 'i got a useless T2 BPO' people make me laugh the most though, evryone knows this game and its flavours of the month change fairly regularly - that 'useless' could well become 'priceless', and vice versa. That never seems to be considered though.
Mortok Tristan	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Mortok Tristan on 02/03/2007 10:31:13 Originally by: Mortania The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Whats this then ? Originally by: GM Guard Evil conglomerates are formed and prices go up! As you probably realize by now, ISK sellers go to great lengths to get their hands on ISK. Recently we busted a blueprint conglomerate that was set up just to skim ISK off the top. That extra ISK was then sold for real life currency. The players involved bought a large number of expensive blueprints over a long period of time with the purpose of monopolizing the market on certain items. They attempted to drive prices as high as possible so that they could skim more money off the top and sell more ISK on Ebay. This went on for some time and I am sure that a large number of the playerbase unknowingly felt the effect of this when buying ships and modules. This conglomerate was found out and brought down by your friendly GMs and all those involved given a lifelong vacation from EVE. Their precious pile of blueprints will be reseeded to lucky players through the blueprint lottery. This is a perfect example of how those willing to buy ISK for real money can directly cause inflation and can end up costing the rest of the playerbase a lot of ISK.
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:42:00 - [19] Char 1: "Hey - i believe your selling t2 small smart bomb bpo's" Char 2: "Yea" Char 1: "I've been thinking, of ya know, maybe forming some cartel and getting a price fix on these things. You in?" Char 2: "lol". Eve System to Char 1: "You are now alone in this chat". Eve vs WoW
Kilabi Freedom for All The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.03.02 10:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Mortania snip If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. snip As long as the price is paid the price is right. I could make Sell-Offers for Tritanium for 100 ISK. As long somebody is buying it the price was right for him. I wont sell anything under the price i "could" get. So why do you want T2BPO owners to do so? Ok there could be more of them but thats not a problem of the producers. I would like to see more T2BPOs too. But as long as this does not happen i have to live with the prices current holders try to get.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Mortania ...Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs... ...Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods... 1) I thought you said on the other threads that your T2 BPOs were worthless... o> 2) If T1 gives you more money, then suggest that ccp exchanges your T2 BPOs for T1 ones.
Ritchler Gallente BOOM - Gotcha	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself
Ritchler Gallente BOOM - Gotcha	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself
Alita Tiphares	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:10:00 - [24] i have a feeling someone is going to war declare this tard before long
Alita Tiphares	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:10:00 - [25] i have a feeling someone is going to war declare this tard before long
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:26:00 - [26] Thats gotta be Lady Noir "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:26:00 - [27] Thats gotta be Lady Noir "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself Its called "capitalism." It said it on the EVE box when you bought it. In a capitalistic economy, people are naturally supposed to be greedy. I agree completely with the first post, with the exception of the cloak and cap II cartel. Invention has completely killed all cartels, at least any that have managed to get their prices high enough that invention is worth profiting from. Basically it puts a ceiling on all T2 prices, limiting the price. Covert Ops Cloaks are going to fall once people realize that even though half of the invention jobs they do will make Improved cloaks, it is still massively profitable. EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:29:00 - [29] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/03/2007 11:45:00 Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself Its called "capitalism." It said it on the EVE box when you bought it. In a capitalistic economy, people are naturally supposed to be greedy. I agree completely with the first post, with the exception of the cloak and cap II cartel. Invention has completely killed all cartels, at least any that have managed to get their prices high enough that invention is worth profiting from. Basically it puts a ceiling on all T2 prices, limiting the price. The reason Hulks are still so high is because for one, CCP is not letting us invent them! Covert Ops Cloaks are going to fall once people realize that even though half of the invention jobs they do will make Improved cloaks, it is still massively profitable. Did I say something about Covert Ops Cloaks? Yes, I'll say that again. INVENT THEM INVENT THEM INVENT THEM! They're too expensive, I don't like that EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:34:00 - [30] DS has spoken. Now shush "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2007.03.02 11:34:00 - [31] DS has spoken. Now shush "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:48:00 - [32] Edited by: Trilliam Blackthorn on 02/03/2007 16:45:23 Quote: The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel Hmmm...ok.... From: Dev Blog Quote: As you probably realize by now, ISK sellers go to great lengths to get their hands on ISK. Recently we busted a blueprint conglomerate that was set up just to skim ISK off the top. That extra ISK was then sold for real life currency. The players involved bought a large number of expensive blueprints over a long period of time with the purpose of monopolizing the market on certain items. They attempted to drive prices as high as possible so that they could skim more money off the top and sell more ISK on Ebay. This went on for some time and I am sure that a large number of the playerbase unknowingly felt the effect of this when buying ships and modules.
Zabrina	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:54:00 - [33] Can somebody tell me who to talk to so that I can join the Ishtar BPO cartel?
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:58:00 - [34] 2 posts in a row crying about how her T2 BPO isn't the printer that everyone says they are (and to stfu about the current BPO's and owners.. herself included)... overcompensating? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:59:00 - [35] Out of curiosity, would you like to share/confess how much your total worth is thanks to the t2 bpo you have ?
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:00:00 - [36] So, once again, your point is "I own t2 BPOs that don't make as much money as the ISK printing press ones." You've already made this point. Why do we care? Wake me up when you're offering free* 10 run BPCs of Hulks, cap charger IIs, valk or hobgoblin medium II drones, any small or medium t2 guns, covops cloaks, cargo expanders or ANYTHING which has a mass market.
Joebarchuck	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:11:00 - [37] I have some questions about the lottery, I have a research agent with about 5000RP, I know it is not much but what are the chances of getting a BPO tech II with those RD points?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Toria Nynys Wake me up when you're offering free* 10 run BPCs of Hulks, cap charger IIs, valk or hobgoblin medium II drones, any small or medium t2 guns, covops cloaks, cargo expanders or ANYTHING which has a mass market. If he made free BPCs of the high-demand items, it would actually cause prices to rise because it would lower the supply. Try again. EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
RaTTuS BIG Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:14:00 - [39] Low - so low just ignore it -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Joebarchuck I have some questions about the lottery, I have a research agent with about 5000RP, I know it is not much but what are the chances of getting a BPO tech II with those RD points? Your 5000 are in a pool with all of the other people who have points in the same type of research (like Mechanical Engineering). Let's say thre's some 3 year guy who has 4 agents all pumping in the same field and has 300k on each of 4 agents, he'll have 1.2M points in the pool. Which is much more than yours, but compared to the total pool number which is probably billions and billions (trilliions?), it's basically zero. So while he has 0.00000000000003% chance and you have 0.000000000000001% chance, you can see that you both don't have a chance, reliably. ---
Corvinus Drax	Posted - 2007.03.02 18:10:00 - [41] Mortania, I didn't see your post here before I replied to the other one. But, I'll re-post what I mentioned here, as it seems more appropriate in this thread. Why not give invention a chance to produce a T2 BPO? I imagine loads of people will toss their hat in the ring to invent the "cash cow" T2 BPOs if they could. Wouldn't this also be a method to allow for a constant supply of T2 BPOs and increase competition in this market? The lottery has people up in arms because there is no reliable way to predict what BPO you may get if you get one at all. Similarly, invention produces BPCs with less than competitive values. This would solve that issue, as you would only be 'working' for a BPO you were interested in producing. Also, make it the only method of obtaining a T2 BPO. RPs can be used to obtain the datacores for invention as I understand it, so long time research agent runners would have an initial edge on those new to the game. I'm not advocating making it an easy process. But allowing for more competition on a level playing field (BPO vs BPO) can only be a good thing for the market right? This way you wouldn't need to take the BPOs away from those people who already have them (which would incite my ire if I had one), and you would also be increasing the supply at the same time. Experienced industrialists would have an edge on new producers, research time already done, logistics sorted and such. But the advantage wouldn't be an immutable one. Given enough time, it will sort itself out. Addition: In regards to predictability of obtaining something through invention, why not scale the output based on input quality, but increase the chances of a successful invention process. By scale I mean a sliding set of gaussian curves. So, with the best T1 item, you would have some predictable chance of producing a ME0/PE0 BPC of #-runs, with chances to produce BPCs of greater/lesser ME/PE or greater/lesser runs and a slim chance of a T2 BPO. With lesser T1 items, your chances for an overwhelming success would be lower, along with increased chances of failure and less chance of a BPO.
Pierre Jacquemein A Place for Valen Serenus Letum	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:32:00 - [42] Edited by: Pierre Jacquemein on 02/03/2007 19:32:45 Originally by: Something Random Ive never understood the problem with this. In most rpg there are rare items, you may or may not get one and usually there are some you will never see although you do usually get something considered quite rare. In eve maybe thats a module, or a T2 BPO. What seems to peave most of you is the idea of the Cartels, and this is a problem that cannot be fixed due to the resell market. BPO goes to someone who either doesnt see its worth over time, or simply has no interest in marketing. The 'dollar sign' eyes shine and the BPO goes for resell, the cartel forms simply through people that have a lot of money to buy it, perhaps through teamwork - and that cascades of course. Cartel born. Now how do you propose to have both rare items for that 'I think i won eve' moment we all would like to see AND stop people from getting rich and hoarding a lot of those moments. You cant. And yes i think T2 prices are very unfair. But i also see a big wonder of the game being obliterated at the moment through people who seem to never be happy with anything. The 'i got a useless T2 BPO' people make me laugh the most though, evryone knows this game and its flavours of the month change fairly regularly - that 'useless' could well become 'priceless', and vice versa. That never seems to be considered though. In most MMOPRG's there are rare items. How do you obtain them? You go out and farm your ass off in order to get lucky and get the spawn that drops it. Getting a T2 BPO is a different process. Either you get lucky and just win it in a lottery(i.e. you didn't earn it) or you buy it (but only if somebody chooses to sell it). Do you see the difference there? The main problem is NOT T2 Cartels; cartels are a side effect of a bigger problem and that is the vast majority of the player-base cannot earn the ability to produce T2 goods at a profit (however small it may be). Hopefully invention will fix the problem of cartels by making T2 goods accessible to a larger number of players. Currently, invention is not practical unless you have billions of ISK lieing around (in which case you are better off buying the damn BPO), but I have faith that CCP will get around to fixing invention in the next few years.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:41:00 - [43] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn A simple solution to the t2 BPO lottery in my eyes would be to degrade each BPO after a month and then reseed it... For example, person x gets a Vaga BPO in January, builds as many as he can in the month allocated then the BPO degrades, and comparable to the use it got, changes in to a BPC with a certain number of runs (high use = high runs). Then in February, person y gets the Vaga BPO. She builds 4 vagas for herself and the BPO is wasted, at the end of the month, the BPO turns in to a 1-run BPC and the cycle continues. This would stop people having the monopoly on certain BPOs, would make everyone happy (because everyone would get a t2 BPO), and would speed up production (you only get it for a month, so you wouldn't stick around). The thing is that a BPO's allows a permanent and stable supply chain to form, which could not form under your conditions. The fix to obscene T2 prices is invention in addition to T2. It solves all the problems in the game with T2 prices while not hurting anyone.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself I've been repeating this over and over. Having invention does not mean getting rid of t2 bpo's. Invention does fix the problems of undersupply by being able to producue high margin t2 items at a higher cost, but still profitable, cost.
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.02 22:30:00 - [45] Edited by: Arian Snow on 02/03/2007 22:30:35 How much money did you make with those T2 BPO's? really! People complain all the time that mission runners and the like make too much isk, and CCP seems to be doing something about it! ... but really how much isk does a T2 producer owning a BPO make contra time spend? Missionrunning and general carebearing has got nothing on the T2 lottery iskwise, but CCP doesn't seem to give a ***!!! EVE economy is skewed in the favor of the few, That is EVEs archilles heel. If CCP dont do anything about it... EVE will die! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!*
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.03.02 22:41:00 - [46] Jeez, Stop trying to educate them. Seriously, their preconceptions are so strong that theres little point.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.03.02 22:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Arian Snow EVE economy is skewed in the favor of the few, That is EVEs archilles heel. If CCP dont do anything about it... EVE will die! Quite the contrary, it gives you peasants something to aspire too.
MilhouseNixon Amarr Intergalactic Business Solutions	Posted - 2007.03.02 22:46:00 - [48] Edited by: MilhouseNixon on 02/03/2007 22:43:33 ex+cep+tion - [ik-sep-shuhn] ûnoun 1. the act of excepting or the fact of being excepted. 2. something excepted; an instance or case not conforming to the general rule. 3. an adverse criticism, esp. on a particular point; opposition of opinion; objection; demurral: a statement liable to exception. 4. Law. a. an objection, as to a ruling of the court in the course of a trial. b. a notation that an objection is preserved for purposes of appeal: saving an exception. Originally by: Caligulus How can you honestly argue something when you openly admit a completely contradictory point? "The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception)". ...it's like stating, I am the greatest person in Eve (with the exception of everyone else).
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.02 22:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Dark Shikari In a capitalistic economy, people are naturally supposed to be greedy. I agree completely with the first post, with the exception of the cloak and cap II cartel. Invention has completely killed all cartels, at least any that have managed to get their prices high enough that invention is worth profiting from. Basically it puts a ceiling on all T2 prices, limiting the price. The reason Hulks are still so high is because for one, CCP is not letting us invent them! Indeed in a capitalistic economy people are supposed to be greedy. But pure capitalism is about as viable an economic system as pure communism is (both are doomed to failure in their "pure" forms). In a pure capitalistic system you will see wealth centralize into fewer and fewer people which become monopolies or oligopolies. Left alone the system will either collapse or the people will riot. There is a reason the United States implemented anti-trust laws and it was precisely to combat the above and while not so hot for the few benefitting from this the economy as a whole prospered for it. So, while I don't begrudge a player trying to make a fast buck as I would probably do the same I do begrudge them their attempts at, "Nothing to see here! Move along, move along...nothing to see!" Prices are absurdly high (~600 million for a Hulk which costs what ot build...60 million?). There are really only two possible reasons for this. Either not enough BPOs are out to produce a supply to meet the demand or whoever has their hands on the BPOs are controlling the prices. I really do not know which it is. I would think CCP would want to get more supply out there. I mean my Hulk is made for low sec mining but they can forget my risking 600 mil (800 mil after fittings) of ship out there...no way no how. You'd have to be insanely rich or freaking crazy to do so yet CCP somehow expects us to get out there. Same goes for any of dozens of mods people use to T2 fit mission ships making them hugely costly and not really worth risking in low sec. But then there are a lot of decision CCP makes I never understand.
Bigoleed	Posted - 2007.03.02 23:58:00 - [50] Are you seriously explaining supply and demand and relating it to T2 BPO ownership - can I puke in your shoe please? The problem is ...follow along with me here - the MARKET IS ABLE TO BE CONTROLLED/MANIPULATED - at just about EVERY LEVEL - but T2 is the EASY BUTTON. Thank you and have a Shatner of a day.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.03 00:01:00 - [51] Originally by: Mortania The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). i have a cloak bpo and im not part of a cartel, this is also a myth. unless you can confirm it isnt a myth, which you cant, so why say this?
0zzie	Posted - 2007.03.03 00:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Bigoleed Are you seriously explaining supply and demand and relating it to T2 BPO ownership - can I puke in your shoe please? The problem is ...follow along with me here - the MARKET IS ABLE TO BE CONTROLLED/MANIPULATED - at just about EVERY LEVEL - but T2 is the EASY BUTTON. snippeteroony. Simply QFT if X = supply and Y = Demand if X< Y . Market manipulation(MM) easily possible If X> Y the MM harder. but to the OP isnt this just a dejavu post? 0zzie no longer a PLING
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:26:00 - [53] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 03/03/2007 01:27:07 Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Jeez, Stop trying to educate them. Seriously, their preconceptions are so strong that theres little point. This is the sad truth really. Thankfully the DEVs are much more likely to listen to a poster like DS than Joe Nerdrage Mc.noobie. EDIT: also invention and T2 bpos can coexist easially, and even more so when datacore prices tank after the last BPOs get out of the lottery.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:38:00 - [54] T2 Producers: See the latest threads. One person says in one thread "my T2 BPO is worthless", and then in another thread claims to have managed over a dozen of money producing T2 BPOs. That's not trying to educate, that's trying to mislead popular opinion. When the world thinks you are wrong, you probably are.
Minuz1 Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:49:00 - [55] The only cartel that "was" was the cap recharge II's. The cloaks were mainly just one guy who had all the bpo's and he produced and sold them just like any other t2 manufacturer....he didn't pricefix them....he hiked the prices when demand went up and lowered when demand went down. 99% owners of t2 bpo's had to work for their bpo's....it didn't come through our mailboxes for no reasons.... I personally did agent missions for 4 months to get the standings, spent hundreds of millions in skills then trained skills for 3-4 months to maximise my chances...and got 2 very lucrative bpo's (HAC's). Wasn't easy....wasn't fun....and I didn't get the bpo I wanted...but that doesn't mean I'm unhappy. The Tech 2 Lottery is rigged, In my favor!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.03.03 01:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 03/03/2007 01:49:45 Originally by: Shameless Avenger T2 Producers: See the latest threads. One person says in one thread "my T2 BPO is worthless", and then in another thread claims to have managed over a dozen of money producing T2 BPOs. That's not trying to educate, that's trying to mislead popular opinion. When the world thinks you are wrong, you probably are. One person does not equal all T2 producers. and the world does not think we are wrong, things are not so "them vs us" black and white yet.
Neon Genesis Gallente The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.03.03 02:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Ritchler Originally by: Mortania I've never been part of a T2 Cartel. I've tried. When we used to control the Ishtar BPO, I actively hunted down and tried to create price fixing on the Ishtar. Guess what? Didn't stick. Didn't even last 1 minute. People weren't interested, they just wanted to produce their T2 goods and offer them at a fair price on the open market. Anyone else remember that famous post about trying to price fix the Hulk at 300m? That didn't work either. What's the point? The point is simply this: there is no such thing as a t2 cartel (yes, the cloaks and cap IIs are an exception). Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Have confidence that the prices you are paying for something is fairly well what the market will bear and you are paying what about 100,000 people think is the right price vs. time invested. If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. Seriously, go away, we want T2 prices down, hence invention, not up because of greedy people like yourself No sir, you go away. It's impossible to partake in a discussion on the issue with a poster who's main point of argument is 'we want t2 prices down'. Who's we? Like DS said, capitalist economy.
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.03 03:19:00 - [58] Edited by: Arian Snow on 03/03/2007 03:17:59 Greed is fine... capitalism is fine ... Thats is Eve ... T2 Bpos has got nothing to do with capitalism and the free market. Its a silly lottery. A 'patent' for the lucky even the uninventive and stupid that denies everyone else to develop a competing product! Its not like Edison drew his lightbulb patent in the lottery! Defending the T2 BPOs using the word capitalism is daft. O and if you want to educate the masses about the t2 BPO's please do so while making sense. Like laying everything out in a rational manner with numbers attached. I cant really use arogant comments for anything but to stamp the writer of them stupid and not worth my time! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Qolde Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.03 04:05:00 - [59] Most of the problem with the T2 stuff is the ships. The fact that items only get destroyed 60% of the time after a fight, and ships that lose blow up 100% of the time heavily affects the ratio of T2 ships to T2 items, along with the fact that there are less T2 ship BPO's created versus any of the T2 mods in the first place. They also take longer to build. All this added together multiplies the price to rediculous heights because the T2 ships are so rare. The mods are bad, but they are much more affordable for the simple fact that not many of the T2 mods are that much better than the best named mods. They have something to compete with.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.03 06:52:00 - [60] Originally by: Shameless Avenger T2 Producers: See the latest threads. One person says in one thread "my T2 BPO is worthless", and then in another thread claims to have managed over a dozen of money producing T2 BPOs. That's not trying to educate, that's trying to mislead popular opinion. When the world thinks you are wrong, you probably are. You often get confused easily, don't you? I'll spell it out in simple language for you. Not all T2 BPOs are created equal. I was refuting the claim that people have claimed ALL T2 BPOs are isk printing machines. This is patently false. We have moved the dialogue forward and are now talking about a few specific problem T2 BPOs that are in desperate need of fixing. Please try and keep up. ---
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.03.03 07:24:00 - [61] Originally by: Mortania ...I was refuting... On what thread was that? I know it was one of them, I'm sure a read something like it... but with so many pro T2 spam going on ATM... OMG I'm confused. /me drinks coffe ahhh too much preasure I do have to admit a good one on your side. You did get to spam the forums with pro t2 threads without having a clikie (Eg: There's already a pro t2 thread <here>). It takes some skill to make multiple threads for the same ultimate goal (pro t2) but just different enough to keep them all alive simultaneously.
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.03 07:58:00 - [62] You may not be directly in league with other T2 BPO holders, but you're all con men, just the same. Is it purely a coincidence that Hulks all sell for well over 500mil? _________________________________________________________
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.03 08:27:00 - [63] Originally by: Voculus You may not be directly in league with other T2 BPO holders, but you're all con men, just the same. Is it purely a coincidence that Hulks all sell for well over 500mil? Is it all a coincidence that gas is generally at the same price? Market forces. Hulks sell for 500M plus. People have tried selling them for less. They get bought and resold at 500M. It's not just the T2 BPO people that make money, resellers do to. Are you telling me that if you found a cache of 10 Hulks for 100M you would turn around and sell them all for 500M+? ---
Gamesguy Amarr E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.03.03 10:19:00 - [64] Originally by: Mortania Is it all a coincidence that gas is generally at the same price? Nope, world gas prices are controlled by the oil companies because, you guessed it, a few nations have a virtual monopoly on cheap(relatively) gas. Now how about you use a better example, like say...cars. I guess all cars are the same price too, oh wait. Quote: Market forces. Hulks sell for 500M plus. People have tried selling them for less. They get bought and resold at 500M. It's not just the T2 BPO people that make money, resellers do to. Its because there is an artificial monopoly on the product. No one can develop a competing product so everyone is forced to buy from the same few owners, there is literally no reasonable alternative. And dont give me the "fly t1 if you cant afford it" crap, you try doing a fleet fight with t1 guns on your BSes, see how badly you get slaughtered. Quote: Are you telling me that if you found a cache of 10 Hulks for 100M you would turn around and sell them all for 500M+? Of course I would, dont be stupid.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Gamesguy Nope, world gas prices are controlled by the oil companies because, you guessed it, a few nations have a virtual monopoly on cheap(relatively) gas. Now how about you use a better example, like say...cars. I meant at the local gas stations, which set their own prices. Those always seem to be pretty close to each other in a given area, must be collusion. Originally by: Gamesguy Of course I would, dont be stupid. Means your part of the problem, or would be. It's almost as if there is some sort of supply problem going on. As if we needed more ways to have everyone have access to T2 more easily. As if the problem isn't the t2 bpo holders themselves, but the severe lack of product on the market for the number of people wanting that product. Ah well, might as well hang the t2 bpo holders anyhow, they provide the product we have now. That'll show em! (psst... CCP could solve this problem by making more supply. They choose not to. Or, more likely are trying to figure out a way that works that doesn't ** everyone off. Or more probably **es everyone off equally.) ---
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:34:00 - [66] LOL...snicker, snicker... I love these T2 Cartel apologists... "Nothing here!.... Nothing here!!!... Move along!!"
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Mortania Originally by: Frug Not you again. With another post that's essentially the same as the last one. What, your incredible small smartbomb t2 BPO that is just as good as all other BPOS isn't working out for you and you gotta make multiple posts on it here? If you actually want to make an argument worth reading, which you have yet to do, it's pretty simple. Find a t2 BPO that people think is producing an item that's way too expensive, sit in jita and calculate the price of the components and the price the item's going for. Check that for something other than your dinky smartbomb and get back to me. I've got plenty, chief. I didn't constuct the strawman from the Small EMP SB II for nothing. It was a calculated choice. The claim for many is that all t2 BPOs are money makers. In THAT particular thread I am refuting that point. In this one, I'm am talking about a relatively closely related topic that the problem is not in the lottery or t2 cartels but purely in the supply of a select few t2 items that most people want. ********************************* Another misdirection..... "The claim for many is that all t2 BPOs are money makers. In THAT particular thread I am refuting that point." THE CLAIM THAT THE DISCUSSION HAS EVER BEEN ABOUT ALL T2 BPOS BEING MONEY MAKERS IS THE "STRAW-MAN" ARGUEMENT. NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE DISTRIBUTION OF GARBAGE. IT'S THE ISK PRINTING MACHINES THAT UPSET GAME BALANCE. lol.... these guys never give up....
Geeknik eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.04 06:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Mortania If you want the price to come down, ask CCP to increase the supply of T2 goods. Release more T2 BPOs, add T2 BPCs to the lottery, make invention a reasonable alternative, have T2 BPCs be mission runner rewards (more frequently), etc. Think beyond yourself and what is good for the many, not the few or the one. Personally, I made more money selling T1 Battleship BPCs than I ever did selling T2 goods, and those things are WAY easier to make and reproduce than any T2 goods. I only read the first page so maybe I missed something but you want to increase the supply of T2 BPOS & BPCs, but you think T2 isn't profitable enough? Last I checked, increased supply = lower prices.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Felysta Sandorn A simple solution to the t2 BPO lottery in my eyes would be to degrade each BPO after a month and then reseed it... For example, person x gets a Vaga BPO in January, builds as many as he can in the month allocated then the BPO degrades, and comparable to the use it got, changes in to a BPC with a certain number of runs (high use = high runs). Then in February, person y gets the Vaga BPO. She builds 4 vagas for herself and the BPO is wasted, at the end of the month, the BPO turns in to a 1-run BPC and the cycle continues. This would stop people having the monopoly on certain BPOs, would make everyone happy (because everyone would get a t2 BPO), and would speed up production (you only get it for a month, so you wouldn't stick around). A very bad suggestion. As I should train some specific skill for every BPO (T2 bpo require multiple skills) I would increase the price to cover for the training time lost and the production time lost while training. In the end you will get higher prices.
NSA Bivas Gallente Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:32:00 - [70] First of all IÆm replying to this thread cause I have nothing better to do in dt Second stop wining about everything Third buyers are setting up the prices P.S. i have no t2 bpo but inventions are nice
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:54:00 - [71] again... to many whiners!!!!! bahahahahahaha... if you want t2 stuff work for it.. its not hard, mine high end ore if you can, ***** missions or play with the market?? many ppl have made billions with that.. why cant you?
Drizit Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.04 13:03:00 - [72] Originally by: Mortania Having run well over a dozen money making T2 BPOs, I can tell you, you don't need to talk to anyone to set your price, you just put it out there and sell it. If it sells faster than you can make it, you raise the price. If you sell it slower than you can make it, you lower the price. Basic supply/demand curves suck. If demand exceeds supply, increase production cos increasing price is no more than pure greed. If you can make a profit selling at a low price, why inflate prices across the board just to fuel your lust for more money? I often sell tractor beams and always sell below average price and mine sell really fast but all I do is create more BPC's and increase supply. Because I sell at a low price, I probably make more profit overall since I can sell 10 at a 15% markup within hours whereas someone with a 30% markup may take days. I am not rich and don't have the desire to be, all I want is to be able to afford what I need right now and having enough isk to buy a titan and all the fittings is far more than I have the use for. I had this arguement with my marketing lecturer at college. The aim of a business is to grow so why stunt the growth of your business by reducing demand? People will also see you as a fair trader and come back to you again if you manufacture other items at a later date. Reputation counts for a lot in marketing. --
SaIIy Minmatar X1 Industries	Posted - 2007.03.04 20:15:00 - [73] Edited by: SaIIy on 04/03/2007 20:11:58 Originally by: Frug Not you again. With another post that's essentially the same as the last one. What, your incredible small smartbomb t2 BPO that is just as good as all other BPOS isn't working out for you and you gotta make multiple posts on it here? If you actually want to make an argument worth reading, which you have yet to do, it's pretty simple. Find a t2 BPO that people think is producing an item that's way too expensive, sit in jita and calculate the price of the components and the price the item's going for. Check that for something other than your dinky smartbomb and get back to me. Jealousy really is not a good thing. But then I am sure if you had been the person who got a Cap recharger II BPO 12 months ago you would have sold them for 80k each - because you are much better than anyone else and even though otherpeople would have continued to sell theirs for 15 mil plus each you would never have sold over 80k each. I pronounce you renamed as "Pinochio"
SaIIy Minmatar X1 Industries	Posted - 2007.03.04 20:15:00 - [74] Edited by: SaIIy on 04/03/2007 20:11:58 Originally by: Frug Not you again. With another post that's essentially the same as the last one. What, your incredible small smartbomb t2 BPO that is just as good as all other BPOS isn't working out for you and you gotta make multiple posts on it here? If you actually want to make an argument worth reading, which you have yet to do, it's pretty simple. Find a t2 BPO that people think is producing an item that's way too expensive, sit in jita and calculate the price of the components and the price the item's going for. Check that for something other than your dinky smartbomb and get back to me. Jealousy really is not a good thing. But then I am sure if you had been the person who got a Cap recharger II BPO 12 months ago you would have sold them for 80k each - because you are much better than anyone else and even though otherpeople would have continued to sell theirs for 15 mil plus each you would never have sold over 80k each. I pronounce you renamed as "Pinochio"
Gort Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.05 08:01:00 - [75] Will we all feel so much better when pilots are flying cheap HACs and command ships solely, and the T1 cruiser/bc market is gone and forgotten? Regards, Gort Low-tech sig: "When in doubt, empty the magazine."

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