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Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:09:00 - [1] Heat sinks are low slots and tracking computers mid slots So missile users have BCS for increasing DPS and offensive capability in low but no mid slot module to affect same attributes or similar? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Khaldari KPA Recruiting
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:11:00 - [2] Yeah, missiles really need a mid slot item to improve their tracking and optimal range... At the limit, I guess you could have one to improve explosion radius and missile velocity. Overpowered tho. sgb
Marcus Alkhaar Exotic Dancers Club Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:11:00 - [3] Target Painters ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
Charlize Chips	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:20:00 - [4] Webbers
Disco Flint Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Target Painters qft they also get a nifty gfx in space unlike those dull tracking comps.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:35:00 - [6] Target painters work for guns too. The OP is after a module to mimic tracking computers, which affect optimal range and tracking on guns. The comparable (ish) stats on missiles are velocity or flight time and explosion radius. sgb
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:43:00 - [7] Actually, comparable stats would be explosion velocity and explosion radius. I don't see how these modules are "overpowered" and tracking computers are not... --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:52:00 - [8] Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Grey Area I don't see how these modules are "overpowered" and tracking computers are not... Try using guns for a couple of weeks. Then come back to us about it. And by using them I mean, use them in all kinds of crazy situations. Not shooting NPC battleships to 'test your damage' or something. ------ In Carebear We Trust
Ghostshadow Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... ____________________________________________ A * B = C A = Skill Points B = GPA C = a Constant. Guess what happens to B as A increases.

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ghostshadow Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? ____________________________________________ A * B = C A = Skill Points B = GPA C = a Constant. Guess what happens to B as A increases.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? having the base range much longer than any turret is a pretty good reward for the price of not being able to extend it even more. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Gues what, guns have plenty of diferent ammo to change dmg or range and have more choices to change range from closerange to sniping range. There is also defenders missiles signature radius and explosion velocity penalty for dmg. Guns have tracking problems on short ranges. Guns also dealth more DPS then missiles. And no, more mods to midle slots ? We already have problems with fitting PVP mods like ECM webbers etc. Caldari need as many midleslots as possible for shieldtank.
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:53:00 - [15] Yeah, a missile launcher disruptor is also needed ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.02 15:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? having the base range much longer than any turret is a pretty good reward for the price of not being able to extend it even more. Greater range ? Did you tryed Heavy assaults? And how about DPS from missiles compared to turrets? Yes, missiles are great for PVE, but not as much for PVP, at least not without small fleet engaging from range.
Veneth	Posted - 2007.03.02 16:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Elain Reverse Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? having the base range much longer than any turret is a pretty good reward for the price of not being able to extend it even more. Greater range ? Did you tryed Heavy assaults? And how about DPS from missiles compared to turrets? Yes, missiles are great for PVE, but not as much for PVP, at least not without small fleet engaging from range. Heavy assualts? please try not to use the second shortest ranged missile (only above rockets) when talking about range. that'd be like me complaining about megapulse lasers and multi crystals and not hitting far out. and what she says is true Missiles on standard have a longer range than guns. Firing 1200s with dep. Uranium can't make it to the range my cruise missiles do. (I have 7.5 mil points in gunnery and 700k in missiles)
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:15:00 - [18] Personally, I'd have no problem if Tracking Computers were changed so that they also affect missile tracking and optimal. Hell, give double the bonuses to missiles. Everybody wins! Seriously though, missile's should probably only get a midslot enhancer when there's an equivalent midslot missile disruptor. Or possibly a legitimate Defender system. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:33:00 - [19] Target painters are the only thing similar to what your looking for mate.
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Elain Reverse Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? having the base range much longer than any turret is a pretty good reward for the price of not being able to extend it even more. Greater range ? Did you tryed Heavy assaults? And how about DPS from missiles compared to turrets? Yes, missiles are great for PVE, but not as much for PVP, at least not without small fleet engaging from range. Yeah, I use heavy assaults. Tell me a comparable medium turret (i.e. close range weapon) that does full damage throughout its entire range and can even reach out to 15km. Pulse? Nope. Blaster? Nope. Autocannon? Nope. Thank you and come again. @OP: Target painters. Infinitely more effective for missile than for turrets. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!

Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.03.02 17:57:00 - [21] Sure, as soon as we have missile variants of tracking disruptors.
Siakel	Posted - 2007.03.02 18:01:00 - [22] The equivalent stats for missiles would be Velocity or Flight Time and Explosion Velocity. One to increase range, one to make you do more damage to fast targets. I don't know why anyone thinks it should effect explosion radius, as Tracking Computers don't affect a similar stat. All that aside, however, you can't have Guidance-computers 'til the rest of EVE has Guidance-disruptors. All this would do in EVE as-is would be making Missiles tear small targets to pieces again, with nobody able to counter it because there's no anti-missile EW. Tracking Computers/Enhancers are countered by Tracking Disruptors.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.02 18:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Spike 68 on 02/03/2007 18:03:36 Edited by: Spike 68 on 02/03/2007 18:02:00 Originally by: Kerdrak Yeah, a missile launcher disruptor is also needed tbh this is not far from the truth, ECM most notably how they are used to protect aircraft from guided missiles. on a serious note though the only 2 weapons in the game that are immune to EW are FOF missiles and drones and they are both more or less shorter range. and unlike FOF missiles, to use drones you need to first lock someone now. if you are caldari and want a range boat they have a nice collection of some of the longest range turret ships in the game. (harpy, eagle, vulture, rokh)
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.02 18:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Spike 68 Edited by: Spike 68 on 02/03/2007 18:03:36 Edited by: Spike 68 on 02/03/2007 18:02:00 If you are caldari and want a range boat they have a nice collection of some of the longest range turret ships in the game. (harpy, eagle, vulture, rokh) How dare you ask them to train two weapon systems?! Sorry, couldn't resist. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.02 18:58:00 - [25] The thought actually came from using a scorp for running complexes thinking "ah, cheapo BS can't be that bad" I found that despite the 8 mid slots (for all those ECM's) my DSP sucked balls with 4 launchers and no gunnery skills. My standard tank for raven uses 6 mids, so what could i put in mids like tracking computer to increase my DPS considering I had 2 slots to play with -- Target painter makes sense now since the stuff I was shooting with cruise was actually just swarming frigs and nothing "meaty" to sink my fangs into. (also next time I need to remember to pack drones :S) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Khaldari KPA Recruiting
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Yes missile range skills give more bonus than gun range skills. On the other hand gun dps skills (damage/rof) give more bonus than missile dps skills so by your own reasoning we should remove damage mods for guns... ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 19:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Seriously though, missile's should probably only get a midslot enhancer when there's an equivalent midslot missile disruptor. Or possibly a legitimate Defender system. If you think that puts me off, it doesn't...I fully accept that. And I'm really glad to see you said "OR a defender system"...a lot of people seem to think they should have both. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
LiBraga	Posted - 2007.03.02 20:09:00 - [28] I get all the range I need out of my T2 Heavy Assults..... about 70km last time I checked (yes T2 Ammo). Anyways I'm afraid to say your request for a mid missile upgrade is majorly flawed. As is the post about turrets being able to change range with ammo. Want to extend your range, use javlin missiles. Want to improve the damage, use a target painter (can make a major difference). Then you also have extended missile skills to max out. T2 Heavy Assults are (almost) a OMGBBQSauce weapon with mediocre skills. How about a Cerb spamming out heavy assults at a rate of 1 every 0.4s (roughly) and getting max hits every time, unlike the turret users. Seems like someone wants to improve without skilling for it. Missiles need NO-MORE improvements or mods. Leave it at that. Yes I'm Caldari, Yes I luv my Missiles, The Only Thing I Want Is A Close Range Ship for Caldari that has enough mids to fit a Scram and tank..... so take out 2 lows and put them on the mid!!!!!
Karma Coma	Posted - 2007.03.02 20:10:00 - [29] Why are you people even trying to compare missiles and turrets? They are two completely different systems in game. and as to the person complaining about missile damage... when i can use one ammo to hit anywhere from 0-200km you can do my damage hows about that? until then quite your whining for the sake of whining. Bottom line is missiles have TPs and yes they do work on turrets but they were made for missiles. dont like it? train for turrets.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.02 21:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 02/03/2007 21:26:41 Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Seriously though, missile's should probably only get a midslot enhancer when there's an equivalent midslot missile disruptor. Or possibly a legitimate Defender system. If you think that puts me off, it doesn't...I fully accept that. Nah, I know where you stand on this, as it's not the first time we've been down this road. I just point it out to for all the people thinking that module parity with guns would be a 100% great thing for missile users. Another thing Caldari missile lovers should be aware of is that a midslot tracker may not help you as much as it will other missile ships, notably Khanid mkII, assuming that happens. Quote: And I'm really glad to see you said "OR a defender system"...a lot of people seem to think they should have both. Yeah, I really think that working Defenders is the better way to go, although it has it's problems. (Limited missile slots and possibly server load considerations being the main ones, I think.) I'd like to keep missiles and guns feeling very different in practice...even though it inevitably leads to circular threads like this one. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

Jre Grido	Posted - 2007.03.02 21:35:00 - [31] I want a mid slot module that totally destroys your missile's range and ability to do any damage to small ships then.
Khavi Vetali Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.02 21:39:00 - [32] Edited by: Khavi Vetali on 02/03/2007 21:39:07 n/m...know absolutely nothing about missles ;p Originally by: Itanis "Hello there mate, I'm dreadfully sorry, but I'm going to have to sodomize you with howitzers. Have a lovely day!"
Dragon Lord Caldari Helion Production Labs	Posted - 2007.03.02 23:43:00 - [33] Edited by: Dragon Lord on 02/03/2007 23:41:58 Edited by: Dragon Lord on 02/03/2007 23:40:52 target painter and a webber. Missiles are king in pve but they tend to suck bad in pvp because to kill ur target 1v1 u need to be in close and personal, so close range guns ftw. Once ur in optimal which u need to be anyway to scram them you can unleash twice the dps of any missile ship. Yes fair enough the missile ship would have been hitting you with missiles till u get in range however due to the missiles lower dps your tank will more than likely last and your hugely superior dps would then rip the missile boat a new hull. Second in pvp groups theres normally a tackler or two and some range ships. The great thing about tacklers is they keep your target moving v slow and stop them warping out. In this situation you can easily have your gun ship postioned in optimal and unleash ur max dps on your target. Again this dps is far higher than you could ever get on a missile boat. Also guns hit instantly which makes a huge difference at longer range. Fleet battles are the worst u wanna finish a target off so u fire ur missiles only problem is someone just shot it and boom missed kill. targets can also warp out on u. And if there fast and at range missiles suck against them yet guns will insta pop them due to minimal transversal. Anyway theres a few examples of why gun ships tend to rule pvp. Im not saying missile ships cant pvp but with the mechanics of fleet, group and solo pvp gun ships will always be far better. However this is ballanced by the fact missiles rule pve. So what am i getting at? well stop *****ing about missiles being overpowered or guns being overpowered there different both with advantages and disadvatages. You wanna be amoung the best in pve? then missiles will always be the way to do it. You wanna be among the best in pvp? then guns are the only way you will be. Ive only been playing for 10 months and only flown caldari missile boats so i know what im talking about regarding missiles. But please anlighten me if i have somthing wrong about guns.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.03 00:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Veneth Originally by: Elain Reverse Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ghostshadow Originally by: Kagura Nikon Missiles do not have and do not need the modules because their skills are much more effective than the guns skills. Just look how much you can increase your guns range with skills and how much on missiles... Look how much you can increase your guns range with AMMO, and look at missiles....... increase range but gimp damage at the square of the range increse... no thank you. The gun larger DPS is also only achieved when using the lowest range guns.. so thanks for remembering that to us! we weren't talking about DPS, we was talking about range. And you were complaining that missiles get better skills for range, even though after training those two skills there is no other way to increase range. (except for the 3 or 4 ships that get bonuses to missile velocity). guns can fit 2-3 tracking computers and change thier ammo to DRASTICLY increase thier range. missiles have no option. Besides, missiles are boring as hell. Why do you think I'm caldari flying amarr/gallente ships? having the base range much longer than any turret is a pretty good reward for the price of not being able to extend it even more. Greater range ? Did you tryed Heavy assaults? And how about DPS from missiles compared to turrets? Yes, missiles are great for PVE, but not as much for PVP, at least not without small fleet engaging from range. Heavy assualts? please try not to use the second shortest ranged missile (only above rockets) when talking about range. that'd be like me complaining about megapulse lasers and multi crystals and not hitting far out. and what she says is true Missiles on standard have a longer range than guns. Firing 1200s with dep. Uranium can't make it to the range my cruise missiles do. (I have 7.5 mil points in gunnery and 700k in missiles) why to use assaults ? because they do more dmg then normal missiles. How much you can hit with cruise ? 500 or so ? guns can hit fot 1200+ and firing faster and you cant shoot them down with defenders. Try to PVP 1v1 with missile ship vs gunship and i will bet who get poped. Missiles are not for solo PVP.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.03 00:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Dragon Lord Edited by: Dragon Lord on 02/03/2007 23:41:58 Edited by: Dragon Lord on 02/03/2007 23:40:52 target painter and a webber. Missiles are king in pve but they tend to suck bad in pvp because to kill ur target 1v1 u need to be in close and personal, so close range guns ftw. Once ur in optimal which u need to be anyway to scram them you can unleash twice the dps of any missile ship. Yes fair enough the missile ship would have been hitting you with missiles till u get in range however due to the missiles lower dps your tank will more than likely last and your hugely superior dps would then rip the missile boat a new hull. Second in pvp groups theres normally a tackler or two and some range ships. The great thing about tacklers is they keep your target moving v slow and stop them warping out. In this situation you can easily have your gun ship postioned in optimal and unleash ur max dps on your target. Again this dps is far higher than you could ever get on a missile boat. Also guns hit instantly which makes a huge difference at longer range. Fleet battles are the worst u wanna finish a target off so u fire ur missiles only problem is someone just shot it and boom missed kill. targets can also warp out on u. And if there fast and at range missiles suck against them yet guns will insta pop them due to minimal transversal. Anyway theres a few examples of why gun ships tend to rule pvp. Im not saying missile ships cant pvp but with the mechanics of fleet, group and solo pvp gun ships will always be far better. However this is ballanced by the fact missiles rule pve. So what am i getting at? well stop *****ing about missiles being overpowered or guns being overpowered there different both with advantages and disadvatages. You wanna be amoung the best in pve? then missiles will always be the way to do it. You wanna be among the best in pvp? then guns are the only way you will be. Ive only been playing for 10 months and only flown caldari missile boats so i know what im talking about regarding missiles. But please anlighten me if i have somthing wrong about guns. Finaly someon who understand Misile vs Gun problems
Dragon Lord Caldari Helion Production Labs	Posted - 2007.03.04 18:37:00 - [36] Hmm guess my limited understanding of guns is correct since knowone has flamed my post yet. I wouldnt say that the gun/missile problem is not a balancing problem its just they both have different advantages. The two should never realy be compared btw as they are so different from each other. But if you look at the very best pvpers in eve they all use gun ships and thats for a very good reason. Before javs were nerfed this was not 100% the case but since the nerf only the specialized missile users will do pvp with a missile boat and that is more than likely because they gun skills suck bad. But as ive already said all the best pvers tend to use missile boats. I love my cnr for pve it can rip through angel ganza lvl4 in 30mins. But it is very well setup and never in a million years would i use it for pvp. As I said pve missiles pvp guns its that simple and its the advice id give any player new or old.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.03.04 18:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Spoon Thumb The thought actually came from using a scorp for running complexes thinking "ah, cheapo BS can't be that bad" I found that despite the 8 mid slots (for all those ECM's) my DPS sucked balls with 4 launchers and no gunnery skills. sgb stops reading thread here


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