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Daniel Westelius
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.06.13 23:43:27 -
[1] - Quote
The Tech 2 Triage Module used to provide a 20% capacitor need reduction bonus to all Remote Armor/Shield Repairers and Energy Transfers. It no longer does. Was this an intended change ? A Stealth nerf ? I do not see it addressed in any patch notes, but I could have easily missed it. FAX Machines are currently too cap hungry in regards to remote repairers energy consumption. You can barely keep 1 remote repairer going constantly without running out of capacitor, maybe 2 remote repairers if you have 2-3 Capital Cap Boosters fitted. It used to be that I could run 3 with little issue. If any CCP dev could shed some light on this issue it would be very much appreciated. That bonus alone made training for the Tech 2 Triage module worthwhile skilling towards. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2137
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Posted - 2016.06.14 02:36:50 -
[2] - Quote
I think one of the goals of the far reaching cap changes may have been to make them more likely to explode. Taking away the cap bonus may be part of it.
I would say it would be best to see how they actually perform when deployed in a significant number before we start judging their performance.
TL/DR But, EFT says isn't a reason for anything |
Daniel Westelius
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.06.14 02:52:30 -
[3] - Quote
They are already pretty paper thin on the tank. An Apostle for instance can only tank about 20,000 DPS, which is about a 40 man Cruiser/Battlecruiser gangs worth of DPS. They basically made a logistics ship that cannot do its job of logistics because it caps itself out running only 2 remote repairers. Just running those 2 modules on their own caps out the ship in under 5 minutes. If you have to run a 3rd remote repper or cap transfer, let alone your local tank, you are capped out pretty quickly. Basically in under a minute or two. |
Daniel Westelius
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.06.14 02:54:20 -
[4] - Quote
.... Accidental post. Sorry. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1254
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Posted - 2016.06.14 05:18:22 -
[5] - Quote
Daniel Westelius wrote:They are already pretty paper thin on the tank. An Apostle for instance can only tank about 20,000 DPS, and that is with taking an Exile Booster and Armor Links running, which is about a 40 man Cruiser/Battlecruiser gangs worth of DPS. They basically made a logistics ship that cannot do its job of logistics because it caps itself out running only 2 remote repairers. Just running those 2 modules on their own caps out the ship in under 5 minutes. If you have to run a 3rd remote repper or cap transfer, let alone your local tank, you are capped out pretty quickly. Basically in under a minute or two.
You don't seem to do this very often but in case you have to run your triage reps for longer than 5 minutes you lost the fight anyways.
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Daniel Westelius
Shadow State Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.06.14 15:01:14 -
[6] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Daniel Westelius wrote:They are already pretty paper thin on the tank. An Apostle for instance can only tank about 20,000 DPS, and that is with taking an Exile Booster and Armor Links running, which is about a 40 man Cruiser/Battlecruiser gangs worth of DPS. They basically made a logistics ship that cannot do its job of logistics because it caps itself out running only 2 remote repairers. Just running those 2 modules on their own caps out the ship in under 5 minutes. If you have to run a 3rd remote repper or cap transfer, let alone your local tank, you are capped out pretty quickly. Basically in under a minute or two. You don't seem to do this very often but in case you have to run your triage reps for longer than 5 minutes you lost the fight anyways.
Yeah, but then again, that is with maxed out skills and assuming your carriers are rolling with your fleet gate to gate. Most people will only have Carrier lvl 4 for example reducing your cap life to 4 minnutes, and also in most cases your are cynoing in your FAX Machines just like any other capital, so your capacitor will be be @ 30% to start with making your cap life a lot lot shorter. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1255
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Posted - 2016.06.14 16:24:43 -
[7] - Quote
Daniel Westelius wrote:... Yeah, but then again, that is with maxed out skills and assuming your carriers are rolling with your fleet gate to gate. Most people will only have Carrier lvl 4 for example reducing your cap life to 4 minnutes, and also in most cases your are cynoing in your FAX Machines just like any other capital, so your capacitor will be be @ 30% to start with making your cap life a lot lot shorter.
Here comes the part I am curious about. Prior to Citadel we didn't have FAX carriers and everyone was flying Archons. Did an Archon have a better cap life prior to Citadel or do you feel that the new FAX carrier have less?
This is something I cannot tell since I haven't flown an Archon before Citadel and I only got to fly a triage Chimera on SiSi because of the price tag of such a ship.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10041
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Posted - 2016.06.14 17:27:20 -
[8] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Here comes the part I am curious about. Prior to Citadel we didn't have FAX carriers and everyone was flying Archons. Did an Archon have a better cap life prior to Citadel or do you feel that the new FAX carrier have less? The former.
Pre-Citidel, the Archon was the undisputed king of [triage] carriers because of its MUCH higher cap life (both in max cap amount and cap recharge) and armor resistance bonus.
The cap life on an Archon was so good that even with a regular Tech 1 Triage module, a "standard" Triage Archon (4 Cap Rechargers, 1 Cap Power Relay, 3 CCCs, the rest tank and RR) could run 3 (and sometimes 4) remote reps while being cap stable OR run two local reppers for more than 10 minutes. It was not uncommon to be able to run everything for about 5 minutes or so while in Triage Mode.
No other carrier came close to this.
Now we have FAXs. And it looks like the DEVs balanced them according to the OTHER carriers, not the Archon.
Daniel Westelius wrote:They [FAXs} are already pretty paper thin on the tank. An Apostle for instance can only tank about 20,000 DPS, and that is with taking an Exile Booster and Armor Links running, which is about a 40 man Cruiser/Battlecruiser gangs worth of DPS. Uhhhhhhhhhhh... how is being able to tank 20 battleships (or 40 cruisers) having a "pretty paper thin" tank?????
In a small to medium gang setting, that is PRETTY FRIGGIN GOOD.
Oh... but "in a fleet setting that tank is a 'piddling amount' and won't last against alpha." No ****. Local repping and Triage in general is bad in a fleet setting.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2916
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Posted - 2016.06.14 17:38:29 -
[9] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Uhhhhhhhhhhh... how is being able to tank 20 battleships (or 40 cruisers) having a "pretty paper thin" tank?????
In a small to medium gang setting, that is PRETTY FRIGGIN GOOD.
Oh... but "in a fleet setting that tank is a 'piddling amount' and won't last against alpha." No ****. Local repping and Triage in general is bad in a fleet setting.
If it was scaled to fleet settings, it would still be broken once a fleet action goes over the "balanced" sweet spot it was balanced for anyway. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10041
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Posted - 2016.06.14 17:48:09 -
[10] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: Uhhhhhhhhhhh... how is being able to tank 20 battleships (or 40 cruisers) having a "pretty paper thin" tank?????
In a small to medium gang setting, that is PRETTY FRIGGIN GOOD.
Oh... but "in a fleet setting that tank is a 'piddling amount' and won't last against alpha." No ****. Local repping and Triage in general is bad in a fleet setting.
If it was scaled to fleet settings, it would still be broken once a fleet action goes over the "balanced" sweet spot it was balanced for anyway. Indeed. And balancing local repping around fleet warfare makes it unbalanced in small scale warfare.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2831
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Posted - 2016.06.20 09:46:56 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: Uhhhhhhhhhhh... how is being able to tank 20 battleships (or 40 cruisers) having a "pretty paper thin" tank?????
In a small to medium gang setting, that is PRETTY FRIGGIN GOOD.
Oh... but "in a fleet setting that tank is a 'piddling amount' and won't last against alpha." No ****. Local repping and Triage in general is bad in a fleet setting.
If it was scaled to fleet settings, it would still be broken once a fleet action goes over the "balanced" sweet spot it was balanced for anyway. Indeed. And balancing local repping around fleet warfare makes it unbalanced in small scale warfare.
not only that but the apos and minik are built to buffer out of triage and tag off they manage this far better than local repping. If you want an active tank FAX use the minmatar/gal.
but triage was nerffed hard in more ways than just this. You see carriers repping outside of triage was gamebreaking in large numbers so they killed capital RR in and out of triage just to make sure
Citadel worm hole tax
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1260
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Posted - 2016.06.20 10:25:27 -
[12] - Quote
Thank you Sha!
Okay I didn't know that about the Archon. What I can talk about is my little experience with the Chimera before the changes. She used to be shield triage carrier and I was able to rep for quite a while even while local tanking.
Two weeks ago I tried out the Apostle and I haven't figured out a good way to fit one but I can tell you that even without any local tanking, you cap yourself out very quickly.
First your cap is low compared to what I had on my Chimera and the remote reps are hungry like there is no tomorrow. That night it worked out but I had to use triage for one cycle.
(Just don't tell anyone that last remote rep cycle killed your own and you cannot rep for an hour or two...)
My guess is, they "balanced" that boat around the new capital plates which can work if nothing is shooting the logi - please ignore the logi, thank you everyone
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4486
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Posted - 2016.06.20 17:19:20 -
[13] - Quote
Cap boosters are your friends now. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1260
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Posted - 2016.06.20 18:51:44 -
[14] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Cap boosters are your friends now.
I know they are. I was given a the order to fly dat boat, I was not in charge of fitting it. Haven't you ever been given a boat and a marching order?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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