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ECM Nerf: Failed

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Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.04 06:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Wrayeth on 04/03/2007 06:38:29 Well, I just had a nice little fight with an ECM/nos domi and his buddy in a raven. I was kicking his ass with my 900 DPS maelstrom, then he jammed me, and I spent 2/3 of the fight (which lasted a minute to a minute and a half) unable to do anything. I thought this was supposed to have been fixed with Kali. -sigh- BTW, if any of the devs are reading this, is there ANYTHING I can do to open up a dialogue with you guys about the current state of the game? It's just not fun anymore - mostly for reasons of game balance - and I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall typing on these forums. EDIT: Greetings to all of the "l33t kiddie" trolls who will be posting in this thread and flaming. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.04 06:51:00 - [2] Were the Raven/Domi using ECM at all? Did the raven have a set of ECM drones out too? Sounds to me like you just got double-teamed by a thought-out duo setup of ECM ships + the lack of luck with avoiding the ECM.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.04 06:55:00 - [3] Edited by: Wrayeth on 04/03/2007 06:51:23 Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Were the Raven/Domi using ECM at all? Did the raven have a set of ECM drones out too? I didn't see any ECM notifications with the raven pilot's name. I also did not get jammed by ECM drones, as those just jam you, without a notification bar. Quote: Sounds to me like you just got double-teamed by a thought-out duo setup of ECM ships + the lack of luck with avoiding the ECM. The dominix and raven are not ECM ships. They're not supposed to be able to use ECM effectively - only dedicated ECM ships are. That was the whole point of the ECM nerf. Without ECM, I would've killed the domi, then either killed the raven or MWDed out of scramble range and warped. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Imechal Ravpeim International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.04 06:57:00 - [4] ECM was nerfed, not removed. Stop whining. You were a battlecruiser going against two BS supporting who knows how many ecm modules and drones.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.04 07:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim ECM was nerfed, not removed. Stop whining. You were a battlecruiser going against two BS supporting who knows how many ecm modules and drones. You fail. I was in a battleship (yes, the maelstrom is a battleship - funny how that works, isn't it?). All the ECM was coming from the domi, not the raven. There were no ECM drones involved. I knew a stupid troll like you would skim the first post without truly reading it, then not even glance at the responses before running his mouth. Hence, the reason I greeted you in the OP. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing* to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Joahanas Stone Caldari Confederation of Red Moon	Posted - 2007.03.04 07:25:00 - [6] there are boosters you can put in low slots to help the ecm's. yes they are less powerfull, but they still exist, they still jam. honestly. you should have run or got reinforcements. It happens. With Kali, the ecm's got reduced by about half the chance on a jam. especially on non ecm main ships. there is always a chance that a jammer will continue to jam even at 20%. its a gamble and you just happened to loose.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.04 07:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Joahanas Stone there is always a chance that a jammer will continue to jam even at 20%. its a gamble and you just happened to loose. I dunno why but I have noticed in this and other MMOs that the random number generators seem to be streaky. Seems you just got the wrong end (from your perspective) of a streak. Try and test with a friend and do multiple runs and see if A) The streakiness I mentioned happens and B) If, after multiple tests, the numbers average out to about what they should be.
Imechal Ravpeim International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.04 08:00:00 - [8] Malestorm... yeah, sorry about that. it's 2am and i was picturing a myrmidon instead for some reason. could have just been bad luck. i wouldnt let one event decide whether or not the nerf was done right. Most people seem to think the nerf was pretty effective. The domi still has what... 5 mid slots? if the raven was tackling and the domi had good skills, plus the best jammers around, and 4 or 5 slots all dedicated to ecm, i should think it will still be effective. rather than crying that nothing happened, why dont you test it out yourself? I'm just calling bad luck on this one. Convo the pilot and ask how many jammers they had, or if they were racial. maybe they'll be nice and give you an answer. at least it's better than being jammed the WHOLE fight, dont you think?
Darquies Shade	Posted - 2007.03.04 08:25:00 - [9] Speaking from a peep who's in a blackbird 90% of the time ECM did get the nerf. After Kali, I had to take off the 1600 plate and T2 repper, and put on the ecm amps. still haven't put any rigs on as of yet(rigs, the new implants for ships) but i have noticed, that on average i'm not hittin my jamms 1/4 of the time(really suxx, when everybody knows your an ECM pilot. . . ECM = Primary) ok, now do i think that the ecm got the Nerf bat really Hard? Yes i do(but i am a ECM guy so i'm probally biased). Now do i think they should had hit the ecm issue with NON ecm ships Harder? you better believe it. imho puttin ECM mods on non ecm ships should be like trying to armor tank in a Blackbird(and not the 1600 plate way either). But with ECM Luck has a role in it(as with a few things in eve) I mean imagine if i went up against a Snipe Tempest, but he had horrible luck that he missed every shot(which is stastically possible) What it sounds like is what others has already said, you were unlucky. and if the fight lasted a minute and a half(20 sec cycle time / 90 seconds = 4) he would have had 4 chances(if only using 1 ecm) to jamm ya, sounds like he probally had some racials(when i have to take a chance, i go with caldari and minmatter, cause i can use tracking disruptors for 2 races) Bottom line, it mainly sounds like you were really unlucky tonight. my overall oppinion, increase the jamming strength higher for ECM dedicated ships, and further bring down the points on jammers(so it's dang near impossible to use jammers on non dedicated ECM ships, But then again since i'm a ECM guy, i'm more than likely biased ________________________________________________ I Protect The Helpless From The Heartless
Chewan Mesa Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.04 08:32:00 - [10] Also speaking from an ECM-ship pilot, the nerf hit exactly the right lvl, a Rook/Scorp is still viable, but a lot, and really a lot, less effective than before. Multispecs on other ships are near to useless. However, as you probably know, its chance based, so 2 multies can still jamm you if you're unlucky. Fit an ECCM and you wont have any problems anymore.
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2007.03.04 08:33:00 - [11] Ouch mate, that really sucks. But it sounds like they just got REALLY REALLY REALLY LUCKY! :(
Sylai	Posted - 2007.03.04 09:29:00 - [12] Yeah... no offense man... but I agree with the above poster. I'm more inclined to agree that the Domi jamming you, or w/e was jamming you, got really freaking lucky... Since jamming is based on a percentage of success, there are times this stuff happens. For example, even when I go around in my Scorp (I specialized in ECM Warfare) testing my ECM on corpmates, there are times I seriously can't seem to jam anyone, no matter how many mods or w/e I have on them... and then trying another time, I suddenly start jamming them for the next 10 freaking minutes. Percentages work in crazy ways... it happens sometimes... shrug we all have bad luck once in a while, I'm sorry to say, this time was just another case of really bad luck on your part.
Sylen Caldari Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2007.03.04 09:29:00 - [13] Oops... god damn it.. I keep forgetting to switch my alt character option out... The above post was mine ^^;;... ---------------------------------------------------- A Hamster One, A Hamster Two, A Hamster... Hey where'd that third one go? Sees Hamster floating in space... SOB!!
GLok Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.04 09:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 04/03/2007 07:04:53 Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim ECM was nerfed, not removed. Stop whining. You were a battlecruiser going against two BS supporting who knows how many ecm modules and drones. You fail. I knew a stupid troll like you would skim the first post without truly reading it, then not even glance at the responses before running his mouth. Hence, the reason I greeted you in the OP. Firstly thats a very key point to the retardness of these forums. That wasnt a troll at all, theres something called an insult and it most certainly isnt a troll. Saying "You Fail" is in the same playpen so dont get off on saying that crap ok? Now ive sorted out that. Dominix can either fit 3 multi, or 3 racial, either of these still have the percentage, if he wants to nerf his fitting, by fitting 3 jammers then fine. At least it wasnt 1 heh? --------------------
Semtex89	Posted - 2007.03.04 10:38:00 - [15] He might have fitted 7 ecm amps in the low slots.. That would give him 11 ecm strength on the jammers if he had signal dispersion at lvl 5.. (Or is there a stacking penalty to the amps?)
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:00:00 - [16] Luck has, and will always be a factor with ECM. It doesn't matter how many ECCM mods you got, nor how many ECMs he has. It is just a matter of rolling the dice and waiting for the outcome. ECM has been nerfed, some say its even been nerfed too hard. I haven't had any "problems" with ECM in Kali, so my conclution is that the ECM nerf is indeed working.
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:03:00 - [17] ecm is fine, you were unlucky. non ecm ships have much less chance of jamming you than before, though they still can.
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:18:00 - [18] Wrayeth, if u think ECM is bad then try to be on the receiving end of ECM-Drones. Gonna need a good long hard look to find something remotely as overpowered as those are tbfh.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Humpalot Originally by: Joahanas Stone there is always a chance that a jammer will continue to jam even at 20%. its a gamble and you just happened to loose. I dunno why but I have noticed in this and other MMOs that the random number generators seem to be streaky. Seems you just got the wrong end (from your perspective) of a streak. Try and test with a friend and do multiple runs and see if A) The streakiness I mentioned happens and B) If, after multiple tests, the numbers average out to about what they should be. random number in computer are streaky. You are correct. They are in fact not random at all, but pseudo random. After the first number is draw all the following ones can be pre-determinated EXACLTY ad infinitum if you have the same algorithm. So its pretty common on many LOW CPU USAGE random number generator to have batches of numbers that are close to each other. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Redglare's Demise Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:27:00 - [20] Yeh.. ECM drones jammed me 4 times in a row last week. Made me very sad.
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:38:00 - [21] The problem is with ECM being chance based. Even if the chance is 1/1000 it still is possible to be jammed for 1000 times in a row. Just not very propable. In large scale engagements this pretty much doesn't matter, since the numbers even it out, but in 1vs1 it's annoying. You could always just fit WCS and warp out though... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Sedai Hara Caldari The Forsakened Companions	Posted - 2007.03.04 11:56:00 - [22] As the poster above me siad, its chanced base. Even though its 1/1000 you can be jammed 1000 times in a row "theoreticly"(sry for hijack) Non-the-less, its chances must have been realy bad as its not a ECM ship. But you said it was a 1 min to 1.5 min battle? and you where jammed 2/3s of it? well lets say the domi had 4 racial jammers (i sure bet he had that tbh) now each jamm for 20 secs if sucessfull. 2/3 of the time would be like 1 minuit then. thats 3 jams, and if he is a experienced jammer, he could have timed the jams so nice. he could (with ALOT of luck, and your bad luck) jam you that much. And he might have realy good EW skills + low-slot ECM modules and why not even ECM rigs? And to say its not fixed is not true, how maay ECM/NOS domis do you see out there now? Not many, i havent seen any since KALI.(no i dont live in jita:P)How many jamming ships do you see anyway? there is almost no scorpions left in fleets nor is BBs THAT effective anymore, but usefull still. Originally by: Tuxford Speed is fun and all but this is getting silly, yes we are addressing it, yes I have a blog coming about it. 2007-02-05 end of the nano-era
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.04 13:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Semtex89 (Or is there a stacking penalty to the amps?) /me gives Semtex89 a cookie. There is.
Jerick Ludhowe Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.04 14:29:00 - [24] You're whining about a module that is now almost completely useless on non ecm oriented ships. You seem to want these modules simply removed from the game and honestly that's just a dumb and bad idea. Just like pre kali these modules are based on a dice roll (luck) and it just so happens that the dice(ie) rolled in the guys favor. I do have a couple questions for you still though. Q: Is it possible that the domi was using racial jammers (how long were you sitting around in local) Q: Is it possible that the domi was using low slot modules or rigs to boost the effectivness of these jammers. Q: Is it possible that the Domi had 3+ jammers fitted Now regaurdless of what the answers are to these questions I'm going to give you a bit of advice. Stop crying, suck it up, move on, and get them back. Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got"
nico wurz250 The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.04 15:20:00 - [25] Fit the counter modules and stop all ecm, there is no problem about this. -
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2007.03.04 15:53:00 - [26] Edited by: Khadur on 04/03/2007 15:51:26 I hear you, i was out in my typhoon (With counter ecm stuff) the other night in low sec trying to get some 1v1 action. I found two ravens, i picked the fight and it starts with jamming, got he's friend to half armor then he warp out when i'm jammed and some more jamming later he returns with full shield. wtf ccp Edit spelling =(
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.04 16:09:00 - [27] The real problem with ECM is the duration. One single stroke of luck can take a ship completely out of the fight for 20 secs. Which is awfully long in a PvP fight. Maybe if the duration was reduced to 10 secs... (and cap use accordingly) --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
GLok Caldari Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.04 17:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Leandro Salazar The real problem with ECM is the duration. One single stroke of luck can take a ship completely out of the fight for 20 secs. Which is awfully long in a PvP fight. Maybe if the duration was reduced to 10 secs... (and cap use accordingly) HI my name is hp boost how can i help you? i wait ive already solved your problem. --------------------
Spiderweb Caldari Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.04 19:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 04/03/2007 06:38:29 Well, I just had a nice little fight with an ECM/nos domi and his buddy in a raven. I was kicking his ass with my 900 DPS maelstrom, then he jammed me, and I spent 2/3 of the fight (which lasted a minute to a minute and a half) unable to do anything. I thought this was supposed to have been fixed with Kali. -sigh- BTW, if any of the devs are reading this, is there ANYTHING I can do to open up a dialogue with you guys about the current state of the game? It's just not fun anymore - mostly for reasons of game balance - and I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall typing on these forums. EDIT: Greetings to all of the "l33t kiddie" trolls who will be posting in this thread and flaming. Its people like you who ruin the game and by all means I pray and hope you get podded and killed and podded repeatedly without a second to breath while you try to crawl in bed in sever agony and pain and decide to commit MMO suicide by starting to play WOW. ----------------------------------------------- "For today, the arm of Unity clenched its fist..."
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.04 19:31:00 - [30] Get out of a newb corp then you may have some merit ;P To be fair.. 2 BS s 1 BS.. you should lose. Weather then nos you down, they damp you down, they ECM you down.. they should still win rather easily. Just smile and move on... can't win every fight. If you hate the game that much, plenty of other games to play.

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