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Recon launchers / Scan Probes effectively useless vs. mission runners

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Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Leandro Salazar For all I know, the signal strength value only directly affects how close you can warp to the target, the detection chance could be something entirely different. The old probing blog suggests that it is exactly as Hoshi says. Probes We will change probes so that they are capable of scanning as singletons and give results on found objects. This means you wonÆt need three probes to create a pizza-alike triangle to find objects within. They are getting scan strength which is used for finding objects. Inaccuracy and scan radius will also be getting some tuning to increase usability of all the probes.
Iudex Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.04 23:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Iudex You post here a lot of numbers but you are wrong on the topic anyways. Missionrunners are not hard to probe out if you know how. Few weeks ago i got probed and killed in a mission. I was not even using drones, to avoid being probed easy, and i was only at the beginning of the missions, didn't even take them much time. There was no way to escape, so don't tell me missionrunners are invulnerable. And if you don't know how, ask your alliance members from shinra corp, they know how, it was them who caught me. You died because you made mistakes. You died because you're new and inexperienced. You died because you're not as smart as you think you are. You died because the pirates got lucky and were able to get within 4 AU of your ship to use a racial probe to find you. Had any of these facts not been met, you would have lived. None of this has anything to do with the probes being broken as an effective tool to find mission runners in a reasonable amount of time. Again a lot of blah blah without anything behind it. You don't know me, how do you want to know what i think ? You obviously don't know how to probe right, how do you want to know that they were only lucky ? I looked up the killboard after i got killed, they got other missionrunners in a short period of time in neighbour systems aswell, so no, it was not the big lucky hit. I made mistakes and i'm inexpirienced ? Maybe, but how do you think you can know this ? If you did lvl 4 missions in 0.0 you would know that you dont't have a lot of free slots to fit ECM, and i told you i even did not use drones. Watch local ? Make cans at warpin spots ? Won't save you at all in certain situations, if the probers know what they do, unless you want to sit all the time in a station once you see hostiles in local (which happens most of the time in certain missionrunner hubs) or scan like a paranoid every few minutes for probes or even sit there and scroll up/down the overview, and no you can't be alligned and ready to warpout all the time, as you have to move towards gates/targets in some missions. Missionrunning in 0.0 or lowsec is far from being save, and if you post "probes are useless against missionrunners" this only shows you don't know how to probe or didn't do missions yourself or are simply telling crap intentionally, in order to influence the devs to nerv lowsec/0.0 missionrunning even more, to a state where every pirate-noob can scan them fast, without skills and effort. L...i...b...e...r...a...t...e.........C...a...l...d...a...r...i........P...r...i...m...e.!
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 06:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Aside from the fact that for other people the probes DO work, there are also two assumptions that you base your case on that I am not sure are true: First that signal strengh value = detection chance. I know Hoshi states this in the most excellent probing guide, but that does not neccessarily mean it is true (No offense, Hoshi). For all I know, the signal strength value only directly affects how close you can warp to the target, the detection chance could be something entirely different. Your 68% example describes a situation to me in which I am pretty sure to have a 100% detection rate (finding a BS in normal space at 6ish AU with 10 AU probes pretty much ALWAYS worked for me). If someone has proof of sig strength being equal to detection chance, please post. Secondly, the alleged 0.01 multiplier on detection chance for deadspace. I don't think any dev has explicitly stated this, or has one? For all I know it could be anything between 0.001 and 0.5... Again, if there is proof, please post it. Adding your extreme bias to the mix makes your case rest on a very unstable basis indeed. I really do think that signal strength = detection chance. For example: I was probing a mission runner using 10 AU probes, the target was a Domi who was armor tanking (observed repairing at a station), so no increased sig res from shield extenders (which would improve my chances) and I'm assuming no ECCM (which would improve his sensor strength, and therefore decrease my chances). I consistantly failed every time to probe the Dominix. However, I would intermittantly find various other ships in the system who were not in the mission and I would also find random drones etc. that were in probe range, but I would not find every drone and every frig in probe range every time. I would find them at a frequency less than 100%, and I'd guess at something like 30% of the time. This is what makes me think that signal strength == detection chance. Notice the double equals sign. In coding "==" indicates an absolute equivilant. No dev has explicitly said what the reduction factor is with respect to probing mission runners. I really wish they WOULD just come out and tell us exactly what it is, and exactly how the mechanics work in relation to probing targets in deadspace. I think that it is extremely unfair that they just leave us in the dark like we are. I really dislike the fact that we can't just use the recon probes to do the probing and have to resort to using a probe that is designed for finding complexes to find mission runners, when they're clearly not designed to do. Really weak. CCP gives us a tool to use and then removes it's ability to do it's job. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.05 08:21:00 - [34] I really dislike the fact that we can't just use the recon probes to do the probing and have to resort to using a probe that is designed for finding complexes to find mission runners, when they're clearly not designed to do. Really weak. CCP gives us a tool to use and then removes it's ability to do it's job. Speak for your self found a raven last night with a 20 au probe in abut 10 mins. also it was the only raven in space Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.05 09:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Aside from the fact that for other people the probes DO work, there are also two assumptions that you base your case on that I am not sure are true: First that signal strengh value = detection chance. I know Hoshi states this in the most excellent probing guide, but that does not neccessarily mean it is true (No offense, Hoshi). For all I know, the signal strength value only directly affects how close you can warp to the target, the detection chance could be something entirely different. Your 68% example describes a situation to me in which I am pretty sure to have a 100% detection rate (finding a BS in normal space at 6ish AU with 10 AU probes pretty much ALWAYS worked for me). If someone has proof of sig strength being equal to detection chance, please post. Secondly, the alleged 0.01 multiplier on detection chance for deadspace. I don't think any dev has explicitly stated this, or has one? For all I know it could be anything between 0.001 and 0.5... Again, if there is proof, please post it. Adding your extreme bias to the mix makes your case rest on a very unstable basis indeed. Of course you have 100% chance of finding a battleship at 6 au with a 10 au probe. If you do the math correctly it will work out to a signal strength of around 1.6-1.7 Anything above 1 = 100% It's the op that has made some mistakes in his math, not sure where (the 2.718(( part is wrong as is should say 2.718^-(( but even that is not enough to get the answer the op is getting). With the numbers he has stated in the op it comes down to 153% chance if the target is not in dead space and 1.5% if it is. Add 5 heavy drones and the compound chance of finding at least one of them becomes 7.63% A 10au probe has a 10 min flight time, you should be able to pull of around 15 scans in that time that gives you an 80% chance of picking up either the domi or the one of the drones in that time. Of course because of the drones the domi becomes the easiest target to find, if it had been a raven with medium drones instead we get 55% chance in the same time. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 09:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Leandro Salazar Aside from the fact that for other people the probes DO work, there are also two assumptions that you base your case on that I am not sure are true: First that signal strengh value = detection chance. I know Hoshi states this in the most excellent probing guide, but that does not neccessarily mean it is true (No offense, Hoshi). For all I know, the signal strength value only directly affects how close you can warp to the target, the detection chance could be something entirely different. Your 68% example describes a situation to me in which I am pretty sure to have a 100% detection rate (finding a BS in normal space at 6ish AU with 10 AU probes pretty much ALWAYS worked for me). If someone has proof of sig strength being equal to detection chance, please post. Secondly, the alleged 0.01 multiplier on detection chance for deadspace. I don't think any dev has explicitly stated this, or has one? For all I know it could be anything between 0.001 and 0.5... Again, if there is proof, please post it. Adding your extreme bias to the mix makes your case rest on a very unstable basis indeed. Of course you have 100% chance of finding a battleship at 6 au with a 10 au probe. If you do the math correctly it will work out to a signal strength of around 1.6-1.7 Anything above 1 = 100% It's the op that has made some mistakes in his math, not sure where (the 2.718(( part is wrong as is should say 2.718^-(( but even that is not enough to get the answer the op is getting). With the numbers he has stated in the op it comes down to 153% chance if the target is not in dead space and 1.5% if it is. Add 5 heavy drones and the compound chance of finding at least one of them becomes 7.63% A 10au probe has a 10 min flight time, you should be able to pull of around 15 scans in that time that gives you an 80% chance of picking up either the domi or the one of the drones in that time. Of course because of the drones the domi becomes the easiest target to find, if it had been a raven with medium drones instead we get 55% chance in the same time. Domi didn't have any drones out while I was probing (he was looting), and sorry for mis interpreting your formula, I thought that 2.718 was an approximate constant for the log, but I guess I missed subracting the rest? (missed the minus sign?) In regard to drones: comparing the sig res/sensor strength of drones compared to a battle ship (Domi for instance, the relative signal strength factor for the BS is huge compared to that of even a heavy drone. Drones should be virtually non existant when it comes to probing them out in deadspace. So I guess it's a bug? So getting back to the probe chances: assuming no drones, and a 10 AU probe and a Dominix w/ standard sig res/sensor strength, I should have about a 6-7% chance of finding it per probe cycle assuming all applicable astrometric skills at level four or more? I think I'm going to start doing experiments and see if I can just use regular 10 AU probes and record how many ships I can find within 10 minutes. If it works correctly then I should get an 80% return according to your math. The most frustrating thing for me is that there seems to be no clear answer to what the hard numbers are. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.05 10:07:00 - [37] You say the drones have minimal impact but the compound chance of finding at least 1 out of 5 heavy drones is higher than finding the domi itself. Btw seems I did make some mistakes in my math just above as well, so here is the correct math. Domi signal size: 19.1 Domi finding chance: 1.53% Heavy drone (single) signal size: 5.7 Heavy drone (single) finding chance: 0.46% Heavy drone (5 drones) finding chance: 1-((1-0.0046)^5) = 2.23% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance: 3.76% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance with 15 scans: 43.7% Domi (without drones) finding chance with 15 scans: 20.6% ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 10:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Hoshi You say the drones have minimal impact but the compound chance of finding at least 1 out of 5 heavy drones is higher than finding the domi itself. Btw seems I did make some mistakes in my math just above as well, so here is the correct math. Domi signal size: 19.1 Domi finding chance: 1.53% Heavy drone (single) signal size: 5.7 Heavy drone (single) finding chance: 0.46% Heavy drone (5 drones) finding chance: 1-((1-0.0046)^5) = 2.23% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance: 3.76% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance with 15 scans: 43.7% Domi (without drones) finding chance with 15 scans: 20.6% TYVM for the stats! 15 scans @ ~35 sec/scan is a little over 7m or so. I'm going to try and give recon probes another go and see if I can even break 20% success within 1 probe's lifetime. Personally I feel that a 2.23% chance per scan cycle is way too low to be effective. I have extremely bad luck when it comes to chance based anything, and for some reason it always feels like I'm not even having average success when it comes to actually finding mission runners. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Alyth Gallente The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.05 10:52:00 - [39] First of all, not a carebear. PvP is expensive when you aren't that good at it . What you are basically saying is because you can't do it, it can't be done. *******s. I have been probed down 3 times in the last week alone while inside my mission and I commend those guys for putting the effort into it. Also, the only mission runners that die are the people that go into lowsec without having at least a minimal PvP tank. Those people deserve it. Only lost one ship due to being probed and even then it was only because some 'friends' ran the hell away....still managed to tank for 3 minutes and pop one of em ------------------------------------------------- We are recruiting! Have a look here for more information.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.05 10:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Hoshi You say the drones have minimal impact but the compound chance of finding at least 1 out of 5 heavy drones is higher than finding the domi itself. Btw seems I did make some mistakes in my math just above as well, so here is the correct math. Domi signal size: 19.1 Domi finding chance: 1.53% Heavy drone (single) signal size: 5.7 Heavy drone (single) finding chance: 0.46% Heavy drone (5 drones) finding chance: 1-((1-0.0046)^5) = 2.23% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance: 3.76% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance with 15 scans: 43.7% Domi (without drones) finding chance with 15 scans: 20.6% TYVM for the stats! 15 scans @ ~35 sec/scan is a little over 7m or so. I'm going to try and give recon probes another go and see if I can even break 20% success within 1 probe's lifetime. Personally I feel that a 2.23% chance per scan cycle is way too low to be effective. I have extremely bad luck when it comes to chance based anything, and for some reason it always feels like I'm not even having average success when it comes to actually finding mission runners. err you didnt scan for drones ? no wounder you where haveing such horid luck. also the amount of t2 drones floating in space makes for some nice extra cash Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.05 10:59:00 - [41] Originally by: Bellum Eternus TYVM for the stats! 15 scans @ ~35 sec/scan is a little over 7m or so. I'm going to try and give recon probes another go and see if I can even break 20% success within 1 probe's lifetime. Personally I feel that a 2.23% chance per scan cycle is way too low to be effective. I have extremely bad luck when it comes to chance based anything, and for some reason it always feels like I'm not even having average success when it comes to actually finding mission runners. I know that in theory you should be able to do more than 15 scans in a probes life time but you need to take into account the time it takes to interpret the results (specialy if there are other drones/ships in range which you are not interested in) and the time it takes you start a new scan. That will cost you at least a few sec per scan. I counted with 40 sec per scan which assumed covert ops 5, signal acquisition level 4 and no rigs and 4 sec delay between scans, best case scenario with level 5 and rigs you can probably get the scan time down to just below 30 sec including the delay. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
dot me	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:05:00 - [42] Edited by: dot me on 05/03/2007 11:08:52 Originally by: Bellum Eternus The most frustrating thing for me is that there seems to be no clear answer to what the hard numbers are. and i'd say thank god they don't answer to guys like you. because then it would be just a matter of arguing "i want more then 20%" - "hell no .. i want less then 10%" basicly what you are saying is that the chances of finding a mission runner are too low, and you are demanding them to be higher. 1. your math is incorrect.(proven) 2. your assumption is incorrect. since other people are constantly probing people in mission space, the chances are not as low as you are making them look(or would like them to look). 3. what you are asking is wrong. basicly you are asking for a sure kill. i am sure that this is coming out of a string of bad luck and frustration. and you don't want this anymore. you are making it sound as if all you have got so far is nothing, but that's not the truth. the truth is you haven't got enough to satisfy you. right .. i'd be satisfied if i'd get me an officer every day or so .. sure .. who wouldn't? hell i'm pritty sure that mission runners don't want to be probed out at all. edit: ask yourself not why the chances are so low but why should they be higher.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:23:00 - [43] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Hoshi You say the drones have minimal impact but the compound chance of finding at least 1 out of 5 heavy drones is higher than finding the domi itself. Btw seems I did make some mistakes in my math just above as well, so here is the correct math. Domi signal size: 19.1 Domi finding chance: 1.53% Heavy drone (single) signal size: 5.7 Heavy drone (single) finding chance: 0.46% Heavy drone (5 drones) finding chance: 1-((1-0.0046)^5) = 2.23% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance: 3.76% Domi + 5 heavy drones finding chance with 15 scans: 43.7% Domi (without drones) finding chance with 15 scans: 20.6% TYVM for the stats! 15 scans @ ~35 sec/scan is a little over 7m or so. I'm going to try and give recon probes another go and see if I can even break 20% success within 1 probe's lifetime. Personally I feel that a 2.23% chance per scan cycle is way too low to be effective. I have extremely bad luck when it comes to chance based anything, and for some reason it always feels like I'm not even having average success when it comes to actually finding mission runners. err you didnt scan for drones ? no wounder you where haveing such horid luck. also the amount of t2 drones floating in space makes for some nice extra cash No, I always scan for drones, the Domi just didn't have any deployed due to the fact that he was done w/ the mission and salvaging. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:31:00 - [44] Originally by: dot me Edited by: dot me on 05/03/2007 11:08:52 Originally by: Bellum Eternus The most frustrating thing for me is that there seems to be no clear answer to what the hard numbers are. and i'd say thank god they don't answer to guys like you. because then it would be just a matter of arguing "i want more then 20%" - "hell no .. i want less then 10%" basicly what you are saying is that the chances of finding a mission runner are too low, and you are demanding them to be higher. 1. your math is incorrect.(proven) 2. your assumption is incorrect. since other people are constantly probing people in mission space, the chances are not as low as you are making them look(or would like them to look). 3. what you are asking is wrong. basicly you are asking for a sure kill. i am sure that this is coming out of a string of bad luck and frustration. and you don't want this anymore. you are making it sound as if all you have got so far is nothing, but that's not the truth. the truth is you haven't got enough to satisfy you. right .. i'd be satisfied if i'd get me an officer every day or so .. sure .. who wouldn't? hell i'm pritty sure that mission runners don't want to be probed out at all. edit: ask yourself not why the chances are so low but why should they be higher. They should be higher because I have to resort to using something else other than the intended tool for the job to get any reasonable result. If the probes worked and were effective in a timely fashion, I wouldn't need to use regular scan probes now would I? Using scan probes I can get the results I want, fairly consistantly, and in a reasonable amount of time (5-10 minutes etc.). With recon probes, I get zero results no matter how long I work at it (the entire time someone is running a mission and then leaves unprobed, which can be upwards of two hours). My math is wrong? OK, I was off by less than 1%. Sue me. My assumption is incorrect? I'd bet that the majority of players being probed out on missions is due to people using racial scan probes and not recon probes. I never use a recon probe if I have the option to use a scan probe. What Im asking is wrong? Again, you're incorrect. Why should I have to resort to using scan probes when recon probes are supposed to be the correct tool for the job? Recon probes are ineffective and need to be improved. Scan probes should be used to find plexes, recon probes for ships. But that isn't to say nerf scan probes until they're useless to find ships either. Just fix the recon probes. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Kay Brack Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.05 12:40:00 - [45] I trained for scanning within the last 2 weeks to try out the new exploration content. I have added ships and drones to the scan group just in case i can grab some "trash" to defray probe costs. I find it interesting that while ive only found 3 exploration sites i have literally found dozens of acceleration gates. Of note is that probe deviation is of little consequence when a hit in any deadspace effectively drops you at the mission runners front door so to speak.
dot me	Posted - 2007.03.05 13:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Bellum Eternus THE CAREBEARS HAVE THEIR TOOLS TO DO THEIR JOB, GIVE US BACK OUR TOOLS SO WE CAN DO OURS. you have the tools and means. but you are too damn lazy and want the easy way out. others do it(they have already posted how but you seem to know better then them) you can't. get a clue.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.06 08:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Kay Brack I trained for scanning within the last 2 weeks to try out the new exploration content. I have added ships and drones to the scan group just in case i can grab some "trash" to defray probe costs. I find it interesting that while ive only found 3 exploration sites i have literally found dozens of acceleration gates. Of note is that probe deviation is of little consequence when a hit in any deadspace effectively drops you at the mission runners front door so to speak. Think for a second why you're finding mission runners. It's because you're using scan probes, not recon probes. Stop using those Quest probes for a minute and start using Snoop of Fathom probes. Your scan results will dry up instantly. Now try to find a mission runner that is more than 4 au away from any celestial object, and in a position that is on the far side of any warpable object... Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.06 08:39:00 - [48] My assumption is incorrect? I'd bet that the majority of players being probed out on missions is due to people using racial scan probes and not recon probes. I never use a recon probe if I have the option to use a scan probe. dunno over 60 mission ganks useing normal probs they dont seam broken. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.06 11:06:00 - [49] Originally by: Lilan Kahn My assumption is incorrect? I'd bet that the majority of players being probed out on missions is due to people using racial scan probes and not recon probes. I never use a recon probe if I have the option to use a scan probe. dunno over 60 mission ganks useing normal probs they dont seam broken. I started trying this 2 days ago, fist day using recon probes. I found a mission runner after the mission was finished. I mapped some of the system using random "I'll just warp to that guy @9AU and see where he is" tactics The second day with the semi-mapped system I was able to use the directional 16AU scanner tool to narrow down the direction/area, drop a 10 AU probe close by and verify when I hit warp that I was indeed getting closer. I dropped a 5AU probe when I was close and managed to invade 3 missions total in under 60 mins. Which may or may not be good - but its my second day - give me a break (1 of those missions I busted was a random Drone @ 4.8AU - dropped me right onto a Accel Gate.) I am still just playing with this. But it has great potential for low sec - its a bit harder work for me looking for War Victims ..err.. Targets in high-sec. but with some carefull planning and patience I dont see it being too big an issue. Not sure about all the math - but I like pressing buttons Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
dot me	Posted - 2007.03.06 13:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now try to find a mission runner that is more than 4 au away from any celestial object, and in a position that is on the far side of any warpable object... the answer has already been given to you in this thread. get mission bookmarks.
Ms Freak Amarr NCN Corp Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.03.06 13:51:00 - [51] Maths is all very well and good i personaly dont have any problem scanning anything. It takes time yes, but i think its a good balance. Just look at what happened when you could insta scan people is missions? Low-sec mission running stopped. Period! Myself, with lvl 4 skills (Cov-ops, 2 Grav Rigs, Lvl 4, astrometric, pinpointing, signal whatsit and the other one), i can probe out a mission runner with 1 maybe 2 snoop probes, even done it with fathom before now!! The maths may say its near impossible but in reality it very much isnt. If people come and run missions in our little pocket of space it doesn't take long to get rid of them
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.06 14:57:00 - [52] There is no threat of dying from any carebearing. Ctrl Q > *. Shamis
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.06 15:03:00 - [53] Originally by: dot me Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now try to find a mission runner that is more than 4 au away from any celestial object, and in a position that is on the far side of any warpable object... the answer has already been given to you in this thread. get mission bookmarks. Precisely. You're missing my point. That is a work-around. A hack. Something to do when everything else that should work, doesn't. For all the imbiciles out there who think that I don't know how to use a scanner, don't know how to employ bookmarks to my advantage, and generally don't know what the ** I'm doing, GET A *** CLUE. I know what I'm doing. I know how to use work arounds to solve the problem. That's not my point. The point is that I shouldn't have to resort to using every other probe in existance except the correct one to find the occasional mission ***. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.06 15:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: dot me Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now try to find a mission runner that is more than 4 au away from any celestial object, and in a position that is on the far side of any warpable object... the answer has already been given to you in this thread. get mission bookmarks. Precisely. You're missing my point. That is a work-around. A hack. Something to do when everything else that should work, doesn't. For all the imbiciles out there who think that I don't know how to use a scanner, don't know how to employ bookmarks to my advantage, and generally don't know what the ** I'm doing, GET A *** CLUE. I know what I'm doing. I know how to use work arounds to solve the problem. That's not my point. The point is that I shouldn't have to resort to using every other probe in existance except the correct one to find the occasional mission *. you shoud be useing any tools at hand to get the job done limteing and whineing that your tools are no good when others like me have no problems makes you tantrums look silly. Originally by:** Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Gallente Citizen 1356 Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.03.06 15:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Quote: If it's virtually impossible to use the option we were given in the first place (recon probes) to persue mission runners, then what is CCP telling me about my chosen profession? Well considering how many people ARE successfully probing, you must be doing something wrong :P I have a probing network in place in my old home that created tons of overlap, some areas even covered by 3 probes, using 5 AU, 10 AU and 20 AU probes and roughly 12 bookmarks. And it works. I also know the local pirates have been probing people out using 10AU probes quite regularly. If probing was as easy as you apparently want it, all mission runners would once again go back to highsec, and when CCP nerfs that, leave EVE. Of course, that is exactly what you want, so I guess you at least have a good reason for your whining... QFA. The OP is an ass. Make probing mission runners easy 'enough' and they will all just completely leave low sec. Or just leave the game. Have fun then!
Kay Brack Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.06 16:05:00 - [56] My point was i AM a nube to scanning. I trained some of the skills and am not by any stretch of the imagination "good" at it yet. I stumble upon mission deadspaces quite often not trying to find them. Knowing what i do now about scanning i HIGHly doubt i would ever consider low sec mis running.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.06 16:17:00 - [57] 1. Use multiple probes 2. Use it in systems with multiple missions runners (say 10 mission runners within 10 AU, odds are 1 - (1 - 0.0068)^10 = 6.6% chance of success. 3. Use multiple scans 4. Do a few missions yourself, make safespots at the popular mission spots, and launch your probes from there. It seems you are just too lazy or lack ingenuity and simply want good results for little effort. Killing mission runners will often give you better rewards than for scanning out and defeating hidden exploration complexes, why should it be a lot easier than that? There is not just a risk-vs-reward scale in Eve, it is risk/effort/ingenuity-vs-reward. The 10% chance at detecting you desire is not risky for you, doesn't take a lot of effort or ingenuity, but the rewards are great. Simply said, you suggestion is not balanced.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.06 16:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Bellum Eternus For all the imbiciles out there who think that I don't know how to use a scanner, don't know how to employ bookmarks to my advantage, and generally don't know what the ** I'm doing, GET A ***** CLUE. If you do know how to do all these things, the only conclusion can be that you are too lazy to do them. Once again, potential profits are high, risks are minimal, thus it should require a lot of effort and ingenuity. You think that is wrong. You think such rewards should simply be handed to you and CCP should change the rules to suit your tastes. I think they coined a particular word for that kind of behaviour.
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.06 18:01:00 - [59] Edited by: Sorted on 06/03/2007 18:03:54 Originally by: Bellum Eternus For all the imbiciles out there who think that I don't know how to use a scanner, don't know how to employ bookmarks to my advantage, and generally don't know what the ** I'm doing, GET A *** CLUE. I know what I'm doing. I know how to use work arounds to solve the problem. That's not my point. The point is that I shouldn't have to resort to using every other probe in existance except the correct one to find the occasional mission ***. Guess I missed the point, I am well aware of your abilities. I was just trying to explain how I have used the current recon probes and system to find mission runners. I thought that you were having trouble with the recon probes, I'm not and I only started using them 48 hours ago. So I presume your point is that you want the sig higher for ships in a deadspace (i.e so its eaiser?) Giz a clue. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Xune The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.12 16:03:00 - [60] signed, even with probing skills at 4+ its a timesink and probe waste. Even if your within 1 au the chanche to probe them is a joke.

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