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The 10 resons why Technetium needs a nerf

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force 587	Posted - 2011.12.20 16:13:00 - [31] - Quote Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: list responded to below #1. Technetium moons are the most centralised moons in EVE #2. The Regions in where Technetium is located forms a geographic island witch greatly benefits its defenders That is inaccurate. All the moon minerals in that rarity class are "racial-themed" moon minerals found in abundance only in the assigned race's NPC spawn spots. #3. A techitium cartel has been formed witch doesnt sell under 100,000 ISK p/u due reson #1 #7. The NIP between the Techcartel allows people to build tech funded supercapital production risk free If that would be indeed true, Technetium would sell for over 250k ISK/unit by now, more than either Dysprosium or Promethium ever sold for. If anything, Technetium is quite undervalued due to most current holders falling knee over fist into being the fastest ones to unload the stuff and get as much ISK as they can... quite often, Tech moon owners sell to TRADER BUY ORDERS, and the traders give the impression of a "cartel". So, what do you know, YOU could be a part of the so-called cartel yourself. Just set up a few buy orders first, then you can begin. #4. The income compared to other R32 moons is so much more hugh that there need to be somthing broken #5. The hugh income from #3 & #1 has a too big effect on 0.0 politic situation. #9. 1 R32 moon has 6 x more value than the most profitable R64 moon yet the R64 is more rare #8. The unfair ISK income makes it unpossible to break the Tech Cartel #11. There must be something wrong if even the holders say the gain too much isk form the moons #12. 269 X 14,540 million = 3900,5 Billion isk go-¦s into 2-3 Allainces EACH MONTH Did you really need 6 points to make a single point ? The income compared to any other moon (especially R64) is high enough to be "broken", yes. But that's nothing new. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1207775 -> Posted - 2009.11.02 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9513 -> continuation on these forums We've known about it for 2 years and warned CCP repeatedly this would happen. CCP finally acknowledged it as a mild priority issue a few months ago, but there have been no practical results yet, nothing was implemented. We'll just have to wait some more. It's not like they don't know. #6. After the T2 material change, T2 ships got more expensive whitchs has negative effect on pvp #10. Someone was sleeping the last T2 ship materiala got change Yes, again, see linked threads. It wasn't exactly easy properly balancing material needs with moon mineral rarity, but yes, they could have made a slightly better job. However, the problem is that if they wanted to remove moon mineral bottlenecks, they would have either had to kill the entire T2 manufacture system from reactions to components and restart from scratch, or they could have tweaked needed build material amounts so much that it would have become nearly unrecognizable (much more than what they already did), either way, that would have made a lot more T2 component producers angry, and for good reason. Also, actually, T2 ships got cheaper, raw-materials-wise. It's just that they got more expensive in terms of manufacture-hours and reactor-hours needed. But that means more cash (relatively speaking) for people that run reactions and component manufacture lines, which is actually a GOOD thing. And, again, both Dysprosium and Promethium used to sell for more per unit. Even if it was not a perfect solution, it was better than NOT changing anything. Yes, they could have done better, but they didn't exactly do all that bad either. Cheap alchemy reactions for the entire second tier of moon minerals is probably one of the better options, but it needs to have attractive enough numbers to matter. If the current alchemy ratios are used, it's not exactly a slam dunk, they need to buff it even more (at least for R32 alchemy). http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force 587	Posted - 2011.12.20 16:19:00 - [32] - Quote ALSO... Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: 2x harvesting arrays on 1 moon, harvesting 200 per hour Moon mining does not work that way. You can only have 1 harvester per mineral type, regardless of anything else. So just about any numbers you posted need to be cut in half. ... And yeah, moon mining does not introduce any new ISK into the economy whatsoever. Wherever did you get that crazy idea that that do from? In fact, it HELPS DESTROY quite a decent amount of ISK due to the fact moon minerals are heavily traded at several stages of production (usually war, wadvanced and component, then as finished product), and thus the NPCs claim their broker fees and sales taxes. Also, a good portion of the reaction towers still use PI fuel derived from planets with NPC customs offices, which also charge taxes, and then the fuel is also taxed when sold on the market. There's also the taxes for manufacture lines, since most T2 components and T2 items are still produced in NPC stations. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection
Vigo Carpath Power Limited GREATER ITAMO MAFIA 0	Posted - 2011.12.20 17:40:00 - [33] - Quote Akrasjel Lanate wrote: Florestan Bronstein wrote: #1. I don't have a tech moon. no further reasons required. Yea But to the point, Tech moons need to be rebalanced equaly for all regions. Go away Obama
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 430	Posted - 2011.12.20 17:52:00 - [34] - Quote Pak Narhoo wrote: Best offered idea I think the player base came up with was make them deplete and spawn new "veins" of moon goo elsewhere on other moons, which may, or may not lead to more fighting over territory. Best idea I've seen in this thread so far. I agree that rebalancing distribution so that the price of tech drops is just homogenizing the market and removing reasons to contest territory. There will always be a bottleneck, or there will be a stagnant and uninteresting market.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force 591	Posted - 2011.12.21 10:10:00 - [35] - Quote Moving ("depleting") veins of moon minerals from moon to moon at random is just way too erratic to be worth bothering with, and there would be no fighting for any territory, since the valuable ones will come to each territory eventually. And also, why bother disgorging alliance X if the valuable stuff is gone in a few weeks or months anyway, when you could just hold still and exploit it whenever it rotates into your space ? It only becomes a game of "let's notice if our POS got a new interesting mineral" or "let's scan all moons in the system again, maybe we got something". Which is far lamer than what we have now, however unpleasant the current situation might be. In fact, if anything, that particular way of handling it is the worst possible one leading not only to no additional fighting, but to a more likely situation where we have even less fighting than we do now. Not only that, but you would need to seriously, seriously buff the amount of "technetium tokens" in play if you don't want those technetium wandering deposits to become several times more valuable than they already are AND T2 prices to slowly but surely climb like mad in price. Why ? Because, let's face it, a good deal of technetium moons would go unexploited for quite a while thanks to the fact nobody found their new location yet. And even a small drop in available quantities will spark a major price surge, so as soon as the first ones deplete, the scarcity kicks in and prices start climbing. No, if you're serious about moon mineral scarcities, you have two halfway decent choices. The first one is a more efficient alchemy and spread across many more minerals. The second one is adding ways to obtain moon minerals that are not related to POS harvesters but stuff like, say, comet mining with a ship. You can do either or you can do both. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2011.12.21 11:02:00 - [36] - Quote And here i thought that null wars are there just for people to not get bored to hell and canceling the accounts. Organized By few people who actually owns it.
Xolve Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 275	Posted - 2011.12.21 17:31:00 - [37] - Quote I wonder if this post would have ever happened if the OP was in an alliance that actually DEFENDED their space. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
Issler Dainze Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord 387	Posted - 2011.12.21 20:22:00 - [38] - Quote Moons need to deplete and then present other types of minerals (RP excuse - we mined the ore vein, but found another of something else). so that there is no static locaion to perma-own and become wealthy. This would promote more conflict to gain control of the new areas where valuable assets appear. This would be an easy fix to this problem and make 0.0 a lot more interesting and dynamic. Brings back a reason for constant moon scanning too! Also all R64s should be available via alchemy. Finally, all types of moon goo should be available in some form of dynamic transient harvestable item, like comets which I have been begging for forever, put those good ones in the low sec and guess what, low sec becomes more than a ghost town! So many birds stunned with a simple flying ice ball! Issler
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 330	Posted - 2011.12.21 20:53:00 - [39] - Quote Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: I agree with you partly. R32-¦s and R64-¦s are worth fighting aslong as they have enough value. At the moment only Technetium is worth fighing over. I totaly agree with tech being bothleneck and being the most localised moongoo. As a director myselve, 2b moon value isnt worth it, 3b is a bit more interesting, 4b is interesting, 5+ ish B for any R64 is worth fighting. With value, pos investment must be conciderd aswell. A 2b moon, requirs a pos and fuel, pos 1b, fuel 300m a month? So generally what you're saying is that you're unwilling to commit to a moon unless it makes a certain amount? We took most of the NC's tech moons, then they took them back, so we went and took 70 Neo moons instead, the income from that was nearly 100 billion a month (about 1.4 bil per moon give or take). You see, moons do change hands, if you try for them. The problem AAA has is that you sit at the bottom of the world in the most worthless space imaginable and cry about how unfair the game is instead of ....wait for it.....maybe you should sit down this could be shocking....moving out of Catch. There is absolutely nothing stopping AAA from leaving Catch forever and moving into one of the more advanced regions of the game that offer more to its alliance and members
Tore Vest Vikinghall 106	Posted - 2011.12.21 20:57:00 - [40] - Quote Yeah... Its time to nerf something again. Nerf rifters allso
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 330	Posted - 2011.12.21 20:58:00 - [41] - Quote Issler Dainze wrote: Moons need to deplete and then present other types of minerals Spoken like somebody who's never had to go scan down moons, also it removes the desire to fight over space. By the time you probe the moons, set up the miners and get everything going the moon moves, so you have to tear everything down and start again. Regional conflicts would simply die, why bother fighting over space, just wait for the moons to come back around, or even worse, by the time a war gets under way, the moons have moved making the war a moot point
Shadowsword The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva 79	Posted - 2011.12.21 21:03:00 - [42] - Quote Tippia wrote: Akrasjel Lanate wrote: But to the point, Tech moons need to be rebalanced equaly for all regions. Not really, no, but perhaps it's time to shift the T2 bottleneck to some other kind of gooGÇª better yet, unnerf alchemy. It was, after all, created to ease up the past dyspro bottleneck. If alchemy's efficiency was increased by 500-1000%, it would do wonders for dealing with present and future moon goo bottlenecks. It would also nerf alliances's passive income, which is a good thing.
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 321	Posted - 2011.12.21 21:35:00 - [43] - Quote Tore Vest wrote: Yeah... Its time to nerf something again. Nerf rifters allso If only your posting could be nerfed.
Ghoest 38	Posted - 2011.12.21 21:53:00 - [44] - Quote The OP has a point. The best solution is to just add some more rech moons in other 0.0 areas. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force 592	Posted - 2011.12.21 21:56:00 - [45] - Quote You could also seed w-space with moongoo, since all of it is blank. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection
Xayder The 9th Legion 6	Posted - 2011.12.21 22:12:00 - [46] - Quote I have a tech Moon, located in a nice 0.0 pipe Willing to rent it :D
Tore Vest Vikinghall 106	Posted - 2011.12.21 22:13:00 - [47] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Tore Vest wrote: Yeah... Its time to nerf something again. Nerf rifters allso If only your posting could be nerfed. Sry... Leave rifters alone.... Nerf drakes Better now ?
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 323	Posted - 2011.12.21 22:35:00 - [48] - Quote No, I'm still wishing your posting could be nerfed.
Issler Dainze Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord 387	Posted - 2011.12.21 23:13:00 - [49] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Issler Dainze wrote: Moons need to deplete and then present other types of minerals Spoken like somebody who's never had to go scan down moons, also it removes the desire to fight over space. By the time you probe the moons, set up the miners and get everything going the moon moves, so you have to tear everything down and start again. Regional conflicts would simply die, why bother fighting over space, just wait for the moons to come back around, or even worse, by the time a war gets under way, the moons have moved making the war a moot point We got all our moons before there were easily found list of all moon resources so I have scanned myself blind. Right now I'm not sure what anyone does with a moon probe anymore. I don't propose that they deplete monthly but over time and eventually they deplete entirely (the more I think about it maybe the just end up with crappy yields and the material is "discovered" with good yield on a new moon, rinse and repeat). The the fight moves somewhere else every couple of months. For the amount of ISKs a tech moon makes there will be searching and fighting for sure! Isn't a more dynamic 0.0 what everyone claims to want? Issler
Lord Zim Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 323	Posted - 2011.12.21 23:27:00 - [50] - Quote Let's make things even more dynamic, let's make planets deplete their resources entirely and "magically" have them appear on a different planet.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 158	Posted - 2011.12.22 00:11:00 - [51] - Quote let's have mission stations vanish from systems and reappear in others
Emuar Vak'Atioth War Veterans 0	Posted - 2011.12.22 01:36:00 - [52] - Quote Tippia wrote: Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: those 3900 billion isk pumped in the ecomoy devide trough 5b = 780 moons worth fighting over, tech issue solved, more stuff to fight over, cheaper pvp ships, problem fixed. Not a single ISK is being injected into the economy through moon mining btw. finally an intelligent person The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1881	Posted - 2011.12.22 15:42:00 - [53] - Quote how did nobody mock this idiot on the first page for not knowing literally the first thing about moon mining: you can't mine the same mineral twice on a single moon.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1881	Posted - 2011.12.22 15:45:00 - [54] - Quote Issler Dainze wrote: Also all R64s should be available via alchemy. "let me offer my suggestions on how to radically rebalance a segment of the game I have absolutely no knowledge of, as evidenced by my calling for something that has been in the game for years"
Hemmo Paskiainen Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 64	Posted - 2011.12.22 21:45:00 - [55] - Quote Weaselior wrote: how did nobody mock this idiot on the first page for not knowing literally the first thing about moon mining: you can't mine the same mineral twice on a single moon. ssst, dont tell ccp or they dont fix it wthin next year. funny though it took 640 vieuw before someone actualy noticed it CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 150	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:29:00 - [56] - Quote Technetium is stupid and broken but having to moonscan the whole of eve every couple of months because the minerals switched again would be even more, and would solve none of the issues with it. Also laffo at the idea that we have a Tech Cartel NIP whilst we've spent the whole week blowing up and stealing White Noise's moons in Branch.
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen 101	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:38:00 - [57] - Quote If a powerful group has taken all the moons, or several groups own them and have made some kind of pact, then what is broken? That is the very nature of eve, politics and military might in action. It may suck, and make it tough for anyone else to muscle in, but they've made it to that position by themselves. If the income was distributed across other moons, they'd just take them too. If you want it, bundle up with a group of badasses, and coordinate attacks in many places at once, then share the wealth amongst your new cartel. TLDR: HTFU
Xolve Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League 304	Posted - 2011.12.22 22:41:00 - [58] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Technetium is stupid and broken but having to moonscan the whole of eve every couple of months because the minerals switched again would be even more, and would solve none of the issues with it. Also laffo at the idea that we have a Tech Cartel NIP whilst we've spent the whole week blowing up and stealing White Noise's moons in Branch. Oh- we're doing that for Tech? I thought that was just for fun. shrug they didn't want Branch anyway Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
Dr Karsun Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor 41	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:04:00 - [59] - Quote I think a lot of you are missing a core point of real life and eve economy. The golden rule says "the one who has the gold, makes the rules". Do you know how long have those moons producing those ammounts of isk been in the same hands? A long time is an anwser satisfactory for me... Now imagine, what kind of money reserves those alliances got. If you scatter the moons they will still be in the exact same hands... Hire a thousand or two thousand people to scan for those moons for the next month all over new eden? Whatever.... So what? They won't even blink throwing a 100m/h for those people. And when they see where they are, they gonna own the system and you won't even dare to put a finger on the tech moon. Ther's no way you can stop this trend now, unless something becomes internally broken in the system. It's like the USA and the hunt for oil. At all cost, everywhere, no matter the losses. Because it's worth it. Hire mercs? Sure... Send own troops? Not really, but also no problem. If something can change the current situation it's the economical crysis, but I can't imagien what would have to happen to diminish the moon goo value, except making it easy accessible in huge quantities to everyone. And that is probably one of the worst ideas possible. "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1887	Posted - 2011.12.22 23:34:00 - [60] - Quote Dr Karsun wrote: I think a lot of you are missing a core point of real life and eve economy. The golden rule says "the one who has the gold, makes the rules". Do you know how long have those moons producing those ammounts of isk been in the same hands? A long time is an anwser satisfactory for me... bzzt wrong the vast majority of tech moons changed hands in the collapse of the nc relatively recently

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