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[SERMON] The Truth Will Set You Free - Sermon #001

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Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.05 00:08:00 - [1] Edited by: Archbishop on 05/03/2007 00:07:24 "The Truth Will Set You Free".... six simple words. With the overwhelming success of my previous sermons about the disgusting Gallente I was inspired to begin a new series of sermons on the topics of TRUTH and VIRTUE. What are truth and virtue? Well the Intergalactic Dictionary defines them as follows: Main Entry: truth Pronunciation: \ˈtrnth\ 1 aarchaic : fidelity, constancy b: sincerity in action, character, and utterance2 a (1): the state of being the case : fact (2): the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3)often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics> c: the body of true statements and propositions3 a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality. Main Entry: virtue Pronunciation: \ˈvər-(ˌ)chn\ 1 a: conformity to a standard of right : morality b: a particular moral excellence2plural : an order of angels ù see celestial hierarchy3: a beneficial quality or power of a thing4: manly strength or courage : valor5: a commendable quality or trait : merit6: a capacity to act : potency7: chastity especially in a woman. Each sermon will focus on one truth designed to counter a myth propogated by the enemies of God and Amarr. These lies, told by terrorists and others of the lessor races, do nothing but attempt to mislead and confuse the weak minded bringing anarchy and decay to our society. They will be discussed as "MYTH" versus "TRUTH" and in this format as the truth will counter each lie and show it for what it is as all will come to understand the reality of Amarr and our generous race. Today I bring you SERMON #1 on TRUTH with a topic brought forth by Rodj Blake. SERMON #1 MYTH: Amarrians steal Minmatar from their homes and families. TRUTH: The vast majority of slaves are actually purchased on the open markets in Minmatar space and are in fact sold BY MINMATAR themselves. Even with this though the vast number of slaves in the Amarrian Empire are the result of breeding programs designed to create more beings to enlighten and bring to God. Thus the "stealing" of Minmatar is clearly a lie. SERMON: Where to begin? The age old argument against slavery and the endless fight by the terrorist rabble against the Amarrians. But what is the truth? The truth is clearly spoken above in stating that the majority of Minmatar are legally purchased and even more are bred in Amarrian breeding farms designed to give this race a real future. If they are bred in Amarr are they not citizens of the Empire of a fashion? Certainly they are slaves but Amarr is their home as well. Then it could be said the terrorists are the ones "stealing" slaves when they kill slavers and bring them back to Minmatar space couldn't it? A fact the terrorists seem to have forgotten. But what of those in the Empire now? Well these slaves have already wasted their lives before God by being Minmatar. Now we give them a chance to make something of their lives. This virtue of the Amarr, that of GENEROSITY, is truly evident in all we do. But what of the Minmatar? When faced with the truth above they would simply deny it, call us slavers and threaten to kill us, where we bring peace and enlightenment they bring violence and terror. Who is the more virtuous? Clearly the Amarr in all our actions are the ethical ones. So the myth that the Amarr "steal" slaves is clearly refuted as the truth of our actions is made clear. The truth of God and Amarr will set free the souls of the Minmatar and bring them peace. A truth they can not refute. The Truth Will Set You Free. Archishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.03.05 00:17:00 - [2] Your Beatitude, such expounding of the truth knows no parallel. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Delictum 23216 Official forums
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.05 00:24:00 - [3] Edited by: Verone on 05/03/2007 00:21:02 Originally by: Archbishop the disgusting Gallente I'm flattered, that's the nicest thing anyone other than my finaceT has called me all week. As for the rest? The usual brainwashed drivelling of an old man past his time. 10 points for amusement though, this one is up there with the "sin" of lust. NEWEST MOVIE : VETO FOR HIRE
Occasus Vim Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.05 02:55:00 - [4] Archbishop, How did the Minmatar people come to be an enslaved people? (And by this I am seeking an objective description of the observable/physical events which led to the culture's situation)
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.03.05 03:30:00 - [5] Amarrian loyalists are so cute when they start to go senile. "Invasion? Slave raids? What? Oh, posh. That's a rumor!" _
Occasus Vim Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.05 04:19:00 - [6] Precisely. The relevant historical information is here: The Day of Darkness Nothing more needs to be said.
Vlad Cetes Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.03.05 04:42:00 - [7] If the Minmatar wish to abandon the shackles of slavery the must rise up wit all violence and fury that is needed to defeat the Amarr. By their defeat in battle, the Minmatar have consigned themselves to slavery.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.05 04:58:00 - [8] The "Day of Darkness" is a fairy tale told by Minmatar parents to their youths to bring them to hate the Amarrians before they even meet us. Of course some slaver ships did round up a few Minmatar refugees and bring them to safety in Amarr but I would hardly call it an "invasion". Likewise while these were "slaver ships" they were on a rescue mission to save the downtrodden beasts of Pator and bring them to the holy light of God. I don't even see mention in that propoganda article about "making them slaves". Probably written by a Gallente no doubt. Likewise when you asked "how did the Minmatar become enslaved?" your tone indicates hostility when in fact you should be showing some gratitude. Was it not the Amarr who redescovered Jumpgate technology? Was it not the Amarr who arrived to rescue the Minmatar from themselves? Was it not the Amarr who have selflessly shown God to the heathens and given them the opportunity to reach Enlightenment? You should be grateful. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.05 05:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Archbishop Was it not the Amarr who redescovered Jumpgate technology? Was it not the Amarr who arrived to rescue the Minmatar from themselves? Was it not the Amarr who have selflessly shown God to the heathens and given them the opportunity to reach Enlightenment? You should be grateful. Archbishop Was it not the Amarr who enslaved billions against their will? Was it not the Amarr who worked millions to death in the various mines, plantation, and factories in which they were being "enlightened"? Was it not the Amarr who introduced vitoc? Finally, is it not the Amarr who turn a blind eye to these so called "rogue slavers" who regularly raid Republic and Federation space with ships that (right down to the registration files) scream "Amarr Navy"? Once again the Imperials squeeze out another steaming pile of lies and paint it as the truth. We've all heard this before; if your going to dump another rhetorical bucket of slop and call it a sermon, at least present some new lies for Gal-net viewers to shoot down. -Caesar ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong" - Unknown
Occasus Vim Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.05 05:22:00 - [10] The ability to dismiss history as propaganda is clearly a skill for which the implant technology is readily available in the Empire. Either that, or you are approaching a level of insanity nearly on par with Scagga, who doesn't seem to believe that the Republic exists.
Koshmarnaya Akula Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.05 05:47:00 - [11] I didn't know it was your time of the month.
MirrorGod	Posted - 2007.03.05 07:24:00 - [12] Death to PIE.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:19:00 - [13] Another wonderful sermon, Archbishop. ----------------------------------------------
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:22:00 - [14] Originally by: MirrorGod Death to PIE. Who is this maligned misanthrope? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Delictum 23216 Official forums
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Originally by: MirrorGod Death to PIE. Who is this maligned misanthrope? The dust beneath my feet. ----------------------------------------------
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.03.05 11:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Occasus Vim Precisely. The relevant historical information is here: The Day of Darkness Nothing more needs to be said. Ha! The Matari cannot stop regurgitating this Gallente filth. I have recently spoken out against such calumny, which I will refer you to, the TRUTH Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Delictum 23216 Official forums
T Dave Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:00:00 - [17] Myth: It is beneficial to the life of a human being to be taken into slavery. Truth: All individuals are born free. Free of malice, free of hatred, free of anger, free of 'responsibilities'. Rhetoric perpetuates the myth to the level it currently resides at, whereby all those raised on such falsehoods believe them as 'God-given' truths. This rhetoric occurs on both sides of the equation and varies from person to person. It would be just as wrong to presume all Amarr are slavers as it would be to presume all Minmatar find slavery abhorrent and actively seek to oppose it. The reason for this? Everybody is born free and develops their own attitudes based on their experiences. Slavery denies this. That is a base truth. If it wasn't, such things as Vitoc would not be necessary, nor would such stringent rules for keeping the slaves in line be required. Equally it would be wrong to assume all slavers act the same, but judging on communications one sees and hears on GalNet and through NeoCom journals, the vast majority, unfortunately, do adopt this approach. There exists narrow-mindedness on both sides of the argument, although at the base level the instinct that slavery is wrong appears to be morally and legally correct. If it is not, I suggest we dissolve all empires and become slaves under Concord, and see how it works - if we, descendants of the original Eve travellers, can not cooperate on a level playing field, let's allow the one neutral body we have established to control us. I guarantee nobody would be happy with that scenario. I apologise that I just cannot buy in to all the information pushed out by the Slavers (of whatever race) that such an attitude is beneficial and progressive, but also I cannot always agree with the responses given by the anti-slavers. With such a heated topic it is easy to go too far in an attempt to get victory. "Death to PIE" is not an appropriate attitude, in my humble opinion. It will not solve the problems faced each and every day, and it will not make them go away. -- T Dave
Gavit Torash	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:47:00 - [18] A rousing sermon Archbishop. I have made this required watching for my household. Continue in your good work. -- Lord Torash Head of House Torash
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.05 23:53:00 - [19] Thank you Lord Torash I am honored. I shall continue to do the work of God in support of our mighty Empire. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Darina Rea	Posted - 2007.03.06 00:42:00 - [20] Ofcourse the keyword in your lovely sermon here, is the word majority. Let me fetch the whole sentence to put this into perspective shall we? Quote: The truth is clearly spoken above in stating that the majority of Minmatar are legally purchased and even more are bred in Amarrian breeding farms designed to give this race a real future. Now I can't say exactly how many slave there are bred in those farms unfortunatly, however, I'm for a moment assuming that the farm bred slaves are the majority of the legal slavemarket and as such are never kidnapped out of different society. Henceforth this group of slaves is of an enterily different category then the slaves that aren't breeded in captivity. And which leads us to the ultimate conclusion: the truth is that a majority of the total slave population isn't there because they want to be slaves. They have been bred and raised as slaves. The other truth is that the majority of a minority are slaves because they had bad luck and have been kidnapped, sold and are now slaves. The last truth is that the minority of a minority is a slave because they actively choise to be just that. Clearly, the Amarr hold people against their wishes. Also clearly, alot of these people don't even know their wishes. And clearly, this little sermon doesn't dispell the truth that the Amarr buy kidnapped people in the least. _________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) Time is on our side.
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.06 01:29:00 - [21] Ah, the old 'we were saving the Minmatar, they should be grateful' argument. You realize that most Minmatar do not recognize enslavement as 'saving' them, so you would be well advised to try another argument. __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
Eris Davion	Posted - 2007.03.06 01:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Archbishop TRUTH: The vast majority of slaves are actually purchased on the open markets in Minmatar space and are in fact sold BY MINMATAR themselves. I can't quite call this statement a lie, so much as an error by definition. The people who put our brothers and sisters on market as slaves are, by definition, not Minmatar - regardless of what blood may run through their veins. They have forsaken their tribal identity, that which would make them Minmatar, and adopted Amarran behaviours in pursuit of personal gain. That makes them Ammatar. Regrettably, because of the shared genetic similarities, they cannot be easily spotted as the spies and traitors that they are. And due to unfortunate loopholes in interspacial law and the realities of galactic travel, it is even more difficult to prosecute them as such without engaging in vigilante activities.
Sepherim Amarr Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2007.03.06 03:14:00 - [23] A beautiful sermon, Lord Archbishop. Even with some cultivated and interesting replies by those who aren't wrong. But I'll leave you to reply to them, for your wisdom is far greater than mine. --------------------- Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith Ordo Quaesitoris Forum
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.06 14:48:00 - [24] Originally by: T Dave All individuals are born free. Free of malice, free of hatred, free of anger, free of 'responsibilities'..... The reason for this? Everybody is born free and develops their own attitudes based on their experiences. Slavery denies this. That is a base truth. Wrong! It is a base load of b****. None of us has chosen the status we are born to in this life. I did not choose to be created as an Amarr any more than the Minmatar slaves chose to be born slaves. We are all created to the position in life GOD has chosen to give us - who are we to deny this? It is as simple as that. Or did you perhaps imagine that you created your own startingpoint in life by a series of entries into a database? That you chose your own image by some picture processing? A man is born a slave if GOD wills it so. Period. Originally by:** T Dave ....at the base level the instinct that slavery is wrong appears to be morally and legally correct. I take it that what you are saying is that your instincts appear to be correct, simply because they are yours? Or do you claim that we all share the same instincts? I could give the exact opposite quote and it would carry the same weight as yours - actually far more weight as my quote would be backed by endless reason, compassion, sense - and most of all by the will of GOD. Originally by: T Dave ....I suggest we dissolve all empires and become slaves under Concord, and see how it works .... let's allow the one neutral body we have established to control us. You said it yourself, CONCORD is a manmade construction. We Amarr claim we should all be guided by the will of GOD. There is an immense difference. We Amarr believe that you may well have your own free will and make your own decisions in life - as long as they do not conflict with the will of GOD. Originally by: T Dave With such a heated topic it is easy to go too far in an attempt to get victory. "Death to PIE" is not an appropriate attitude, in my humble opinion. Surprisingly, I agree with you on that one. Note however, that the only ones using such battlecries are the Minmatar terrorists. You will hear no true Amarr shout "Death to the Minmatar" while many Minmatar can be heard to shout "Death to the Amarr". We are a compassionate race, and our actions are dictated by such good sentiments rather than a feeling of blind hatred. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
0utllaw Minmatar Misfits Enterprises The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.03.06 16:21:00 - [25] Edited by: 0utllaw on 06/03/2007 16:18:30 Originally by: Archbishop Thank you Lord Torash I am honored. I shall continue to do the work of God in support of our mighty Empire. Archbishop CONGRATULATIONS Archie, you managed to screw up the easiest job ever. You work for a nonexistant employer and you still manage to suck at your job. Noone reads the garbage you spill on the masses they just skim through it looking for more flaws in your rediculous religion. He's a simple tip. Gather your friends and useless followers, fly out as far away from the cluster as you feeble amarrian dogs can and plunge yourselves into a sun to "purify" youself for your meeting with your god. It's the best thing you could do. However, I'm sure you'll mess that up too. There are medications out there for senile old bats such as yourself. I suggest investing some ISK into them
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.06 17:15:00 - [26] Originally by: 0utllaw Edited by: 0utllaw on 06/03/2007 16:18:30 Originally by: Archbishop Thank you Lord Torash I am honored. I shall continue to do the work of God in support of our mighty Empire. Archbishop CONGRATULATIONS Archie, you managed to screw up the easiest job ever. You work for a nonexistant employer and you still manage to suck at your job. Noone reads the garbage you spill on the masses they just skim through it looking for more flaws in your rediculous religion. He's a simple tip. Gather your friends and useless followers, fly out as far away from the cluster as you feeble amarrian dogs can and plunge yourselves into a sun to "purify" youself for your meeting with your god. It's the best thing you could do. However, I'm sure you'll mess that up too. There are medications out there for senile old bats such as yourself. I suggest investing some ISK into them You really should learn to embrace reality. The reality that the Amarr are God's chosem people. The reality that the Empire is the most successful nation in human history. The reality that the Empire has been guided by God into the largest nation in the cluster. The reality that we're all still waiting for your leader to try to make good on her promise that she would burn the Empire to the ground when all that we've seen from her so far is the equivalent of a slightly wet match. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Thomas Maleficus Caldari Maleficus Inc	Posted - 2007.03.06 22:46:00 - [27] You want truth? How about this then Archbishop? I am against slavery of any sort. I don't care if it is legal in your empire, I don't care if the slaves were born in your empire. I care only that the people the Amarr enslave have no free will, no choice to move on and make their own life, no choice but to follow the will of your "god". I will kill anyone to end slavery. Your laws mean nothing to me and I will kill you should the chance arise but only because you pratice and support slavery. I may not be a part of the Ushra'Khan at the moment but that does not mean I have ended my own crusade against slavery. Now, tell me Archbishop, is that honest enough. I never fought slavery under any such pretenses as you presented. The fact is, if it were reversed, and it was you who were enslaved, I would be fighting for your freedom as well. I don't hate your people anymore Archbishop, I only hate what you do.
Eris Davion	Posted - 2007.03.07 03:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Wrong! It is a base load of b****. None of us has chosen the status we are born to in this life. I did not choose to be created as an Amarr any more than the Minmatar slaves chose to be born slaves. We are all created to the position in life GOD has chosen to give us - who are we to deny this? Which god, Amarran, and why does his idea of where we start so often have little to do with where we end? My father was born on one of your slavecamps, and died a free man of moderate wealth on a Gallente agricultural colony. I was born on that farm; through hard work, the sponsorship of a tribe I hardly knew and the simple gift of being pod-capable earned a scholarship in the Republic Military School. Now I fly podships in support of that tribe and the Republic, and though a pauper by podpilot standards the isk I earn in a single day would allow my entire surviving family to retire in luxury if they so wished. Do you honestly think your** god would have allowed that, had he any true power?
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.07 09:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Thomas Maleficus You want truth? How about this then Archbishop? I am against slavery of any sort. I don't care if it is legal in your empire, I don't care if the slaves were born in your empire. I care only that the people the Amarr enslave have no free will, no choice to move on and make their own life, no choice but to follow the will of your "god". All slaves actually have both free will and choices to make as you would put it. Any slave can choose from the following options - to embrace the proper way of GOD, to live his life in slavery or to die refusing both those options. Originally by: Thomas Maleficus I will kill anyone to end slavery. Your laws mean nothing to me and I will kill you should the chance arise but only because you pratice and support slavery. That perhaps is the great difference between us. We try our best to reform those opposing us, so that they may lead lives of value and respect. You simply kill those you disagree with. Tell me, which is the barbaric method? All slaves have a life to lead and a future to look forward to. Those whom you kill have nothing. No future. You have taken away all that they ever may have become. Originally by: Thomas Maleficus ... is that honest enough? Honest yes, but also incredibly barbaric. Words such as these convince me more than ever that your race is indeed in need of a period of "Educational Slavery". Originally by: Thomas Maleficus I don't hate your people anymore Archbishop, I only hate what you do. What we do is live out the will of GOD. If you hate what we do, you hate GOD. If you hate GOD you cannot but hate his chosen people. I pity you. That pity will not save you from the lasers of the righteous however - wether they be fired by me or others like me. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.07 09:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Eris Davion Which god, Amarran, and why does his idea of where we start so often have little to do with where we end? Because GOD wills it so. On the day of judgement GOD can then look upon the way you have used your life for good or evil and judge you accordingly. Those who have moved the furthest in their lives are also those that will either recieve the greatest rewards or the greatest punishments. Originally by: Eris Davion My father was born on one of your slavecamps, and died a free man of moderate wealth on a Gallente agricultural colony. I was born on that farm; through hard work, the sponsorship of a tribe I hardly knew and the simple gift of being pod-capable earned a scholarship in the Republic Military School. Now I fly podships in support of that tribe and the Republic, and though a pauper by podpilot standards the isk I earn in a single day would allow my entire surviving family to retire in luxury if they so wished. Then look upon the way you lead your life and see wether GOD will look upon it kindly or in anger. Judgement will fall accordingly. Originally by: Eris Davion Do you honestly think your god would have allowed that, had he any true power? GOD is the lord of us all wether you acknowledge the fact or not. You have chosen you path in life. And you will feel GOD's power on your day of judgement. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.07 10:27:00 - [31] Edited by: Kabajashi San on 07/03/2007 10:24:29 Oh Cleric, logic is not your strong side, is it? Let me sum up your little babbling: "The statement that Amarr enslave Matari by force is wrong because the vast majority of the slave is born on farms or bought on the market" Tell me, wouldn't ONE slave stolen by an Amarr make that above statement true? So if I bring you ONE Amarr crossing the border to catch a free Matari and turn him into a slave would you admit that this hole selmon is but another puny intent of silencing your crying conciousness which cannot stand your constant violation of basic morality? Wouldn't an Amarr buyer of a slave in border space be the reason that this slave is captured in the first place and by this causing it? When even your own selmon states that above statement is indeed a true statement, was it really a clever idea to pester us with it? I mean you are the first who should be capable of understanding the concept of universal truth as it seems to be the principle you are basing your little fantasy show on. Or are you preaching your mindless followers that God is true except some little sidethings of minor relevance? Maybe you should really keep your little preachings to your little chapel in your little empire where people don't contradict and just say yes, yes and no, no, enslaved by their twisted minds. When you wouldn't have to stand for the test of your gibbling.
T Dave Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.07 10:32:00 - [32] Octavinus My friend, you really must calm down and take a step back from your self-righteous podium. I feel your response to my statements was a tad on the aggressive side - you will only cause yourself harm with such frustrations! As to your last note, referring the 'Death to PIE' chant as made by some, I do not for one minute claim that I hear that from both sides, I am just illustrating it is not a valid point. Whilst it may not appear so to you (judging by your energetic responses) I truly try to stay as far removed from such side-taking as is possible, rather I prefer to see us all as one race (as I believe we are) that are going through various phases of denial that are somewhat necessary to the evolution of our species onto a higher level. However, I must disagree with your arguments. When one is born - as in fresh-from-the-womb born - one does not have any conception of the outside world, solar system, or universe. One is free from worry, free from fear, and free from anger. Everything is new. That is freedom. Of course, social conditioning is what limits such freedoms, and there are factions on all sides that are guilty of this - the hardline Amarr who condition the benefits of slavery and the belief in a higher being, to the hardline Minmatar who preaches that all Amarrians are evil, etc etc. I, from a personal point of view, just struggle to adapt to your idea of a God, which is what your entire rebuttal depends upon. Whilst I would not want to disparage your beliefs, I feel I must point out that they are, just that, beliefs. Maybe I am not as familiar with the scripts as perhaps I should be (if you have any links I could follow up on and expand my knowledge I would be most grateful) but it seems that dependence on there being one single higher being who is in charge of everything is difficult to fathom - surely such a being, if they truly were in control and had that power (as you seem to believe he / she does) would have arranged things better when they started out to avoid all these petty disputes we suffer now - or does he / she lack such foresight? I am not trying to be facetious though, and I apologise if I come across as such. You are more than entitled to hold your beliefs, as are the Minmatar entitled to theirs, and as I am entitled to mine. I just personally find beliefs based on logic easier to swallow. But, please, my enquiry to official papers and readings are genuine, as I feel it is just one more area in which my knowledge is lacking. I have an Amarrian girlfriend, but, alas, she does not share your beliefs with such ferocity and does not have such a grasp of literature to help teach me. Now, if you will excuse me, I have a party to get to. Faithfully, -- T Dave
T Dave Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.07 10:33:00 - [33] Edited by: T Dave on 07/03/2007 10:30:15 Edit: Double Post -- T Dave
Thomas Maleficus Caldari all professions	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:28:00 - [34] Quote: Honest yes, but also incredibly barbaric. Words such as these convince me more than ever that your race is indeed in need of a period of "Educational Slavery". So compassion for my fellow man is barbaric? And how exactly do you plan to enslave my race then. Persist in such hostile verbal attacks and you will find your throat crushed under my boot you hateful little worm. I don't buy this garbage about your God, you only hide behind that lie to justify slavery, an act which has no justification. You can only dream of enslaving the Caldari race, it will never happen I assure you of that. At least I can be honest about my motivations, where as you twist my words to make it seem that I am saying somthing I am not. I have said quite clearly that I do not believe in slavery and I oppose those who would enslave their fellow man. This has nothing to do with your religion from my point of view, your religion is irrelevant to me and therefore has no bearing on my decision to fight against slavery. Archbishop asked for truth and he got it, nice to see he can't repy to me himself and instead you have felt it necessary to be his talking head.
Eris Davion	Posted - 2007.03.07 21:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Eris Davion Which god, Amarran, and why does his idea of where we start so often have little to do with where we end? Because GOD wills it so. On the day of judgement GOD can then look upon the way you have used your life for good or evil and judge you accordingly. Those who have moved the furthest in their lives are also those that will either recieve the greatest rewards or the greatest punishments. Ah, one answer to two questions. You are as stingy as a Nefantyr; no wonder they fit in so easily to your culture of oppression. Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Eris Davion Do you honestly think your god would have allowed that, had he any true power? GOD is the lord of us all wether you acknowledge the fact or not. You have chosen you path in life. And you will feel GOD's power on your day of judgement. Perhaps, preacher. And perhaps the image of shock on your face as my gods stand atop the corpse of yours will be my reward for a life well-lived.
Koshmarnaya Akula Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.03.08 00:03:00 - [36] I hear they make absorbent padding for these issues.
Powerpulse	Posted - 2007.03.08 03:01:00 - [37] Hmm I wonder what religion the Amarr one so closley resembles in the annals of human history. Pure dictatorship with only SOME having the vision of GOD while everybody is only their to do their whims. Seems like a home made brew of self righteous ego polishing with a touch of megalomania. Also anybody that wants to conquer always claims its for the better of somebody even it is not. Also in assuming the role of being the executor of Gods will one really assumes the personhood of God in what they are doing. Since all their logic is unassailable due to their being is such a higher place then anybody else they are secure in the delusion that they can somehow alone do what the Creator of the universe does quiet well without them. Any person claiming to do the WILL of GOD without showing ALL the attributes and POWER of God is a fraud and should be treated as such. ALSO have you ever noticed that GOD works a lot faster with actions then with words. Words are the way we try to tie down and make ours what is His in the first place. Actions are what make people and empires not words. The amarr empire in its years of actions has proven that its words are a mere cover for the self righteous profiteering of a few over the deaths of many. This will not change as anybody who disagrees is branded by the system as a heretic and therefore has no GOD insight even though they may be exactly that are are trying to serve his purpose. Arrogance is easy to come buy. Its price though is often at the misery of people around it and it has no end. Weeping and gnashing of teeth as the immature beat your children to death in front of you as you beat theirs is a true hypocrisy. If you are going to spill your values and don't want them thrown back in your face with the same force that you throw then think twice about what you are doing. Also the zealot does not care for any kind of common understanding. To them having an open mind to what is around them and understanding something other then themselves is foreign. One can still be a strong believer in something and still disagree with the end result of a differing ideal. The truth is that TRUTH in itself is more often the enlightenment of an error or misunderstanding of an ideal or fact. The reason why truth cannot be local to any one person BUT GOD is that GOD has all the angles covered and can see everything from every side. WE as races cannot claim that thus we all struggle. The sand box is very small overall in this great universe we live in. Throwing sand at your neighbors and claiming its better then their sands absurd. Its all the same sand and comes from the same universe. So is claiming that people in slavery are somehow in as good a situation or better or deserve to be their. They are no different then you except they are controlled to such a point that they are not taught they have choice. If one bases an empire on the WILL of GOD then also remember this. Those who choose to SPEAK and ACT on his behalf and MURDER and KILL and DESTROY his other sons and daughters in his name are in for a FAR worse recompense for what they do. Since its culture that your are fighting against and not the flesh then perhaps convincing through actions of wanting to help and change would be better then bashing peoples heads in with a battleship. It is easy to preach sermons and spout the they are wrong mutterings of generations of brainwashing. Even if their may be some good values to what is said. ITS harder to sit and listen and adjust for the better of those around you that GOD created as well as you and TREAT them with the same mercy that GOD treats you when you SIN and fall astray. As you are still here dealing with your lacks in life perhaps you could be a true witness of GOD and treat them with the same mercy GOD treats you. Anything less then that is a mockery of who you are and the Ajar empire. so the question is do you have the COURAGE to be better then your are. Or are you going to be a Coward and continue to mock that which you don't understand. You see its not hard to understand where you come from. It just seems you have a very hard time understanding what the immature think or don't care. Now I know you are going to go oh looks its a caldari what does he care. Simple I don't judge a man by his race or blood or cultures. I judge a man by his actions in front of me and behind me. And thus I am judged by mine and mine alone. So you will be judged for all of yours and for the lack of actions that should have been taken long ago. Set the mimatar free and free yourselves from your own self imposed slavery of self righteous megalomania that in the end run has not only destroyed what you used to be and made of mockery of who you are. But has also caused an insurmountable in calculation the misery to the mimatar people. I wish you all good day and good journey
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.03.08 06:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Archbishop TRUTH: The vast majority of slaves are actually purchased on the open markets in Minmatar space and are in fact sold BY MINMATAR themselves. Even with this though the vast number of slaves in the Amarrian Empire are the result of breeding programs designed to create more beings to enlighten and bring to God. Thus the "stealing" of Minmatar is clearly a lie. I'm looking at the market in Molden Heath right now. Odd. Can't seem to find any slaves for sale. Nor any buy orders placed by wholesome Amarrians looking to help us poor Minnies out with a nice spot of factory work, a free bed and a character-building daily beating. How very strange. -Eva- Re-Awakened Technologies Inc is recruiting - join channel RTI-IC for detail
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.08 17:51:00 - [39] Mr. Powerpulse, you have some major fallacies in your thinking. Originally by: Powerpulse Also in assuming the role of being the executor of Gods will one really assumes the personhood of God in what they are doing. Where does this 'leap of logic' come from? Originally by: Powerpulse Any person claiming to do the WILL of GOD without showing ALL the attributes and POWER of God is a fraud and should be treated as such. Say again? Any person claiming to do the WILL of HIS WIFE without showing ALL the atrributes and POWER of his spouse is a fraud? Any person claiming to do the WILL of HIS PRESIDENT/DEAD FATHER/GENERAL without showing ALL the atrributes and POWER of said person is a fraud? Can't you see that this line of reasoning is nonsensical. Originally by: Powerpulse ALSO have you ever noticed that GOD works a lot faster with actions then with words. Here now stands mr. Powerpulse, noticing and interpreting the works of God! It is almost like he is speaking for God, no wait, he misses the required attributes and power so he cannot, right? I'm confused. Originally by: Powerpulse The amarr empire in its years of actions has proven that its words are a mere cover for the self righteous profiteering of a few over the deaths of many. Profit in Death? How, I fail to understand. Profit in slavery? Non-enslaved workers are much more efficient. We do not profit, we make sacrifices. Originally by: Powerpulse Weeping and gnashing of teeth as the mimatar beat your children to death in front of you as you beat theirs is a true hypocrisy. If you are going to spill your values and don't want them thrown back in your face with the same force that you throw then think twice about what you are doing. Again I'm confused. If some Amarr beats a Matari child, you think it legal and justified for any Matari to beat any Amarr child? Sort of a racist version of 'eye-for-an-eye'? Barbarian. Originally by: Powerpulse Also the zealot does not care for any kind of common understanding. To them having an open mind to what is around them and understanding something other then themselves is foreign. The fact that others call Amarr zealots does not make it so. Are you admitting to zealotry yourself? Because you seem to have your mind pretty much made up already, and seem not prepared to understand the nature of Amarr society and religion from what I read here. Originally by: Powerpulse Its all the same sand and comes from the same universe. So is claiming that people in slavery are somehow in as good a situation or better or deserve to be their. I guess by that definition there is also no good reason not to enslave people. Sand is sand after all, enslaved or not enslaved, no one situation is better or more deserving than the other according to you. You see now why your logic confuses me? Originally by: Powerpulse Since its culture that your are fighting against and not the flesh then perhaps convincing through actions of wanting to help and change would be better then bashing peoples heads in with a battleship. Tell me any argument that will convince you to accept me enslaving you, and I'll call back the battleships myself. Oh, that's right, you're a zealot and not open to what you think is foreign, right? Or is it all just the same sand? You are making me so confused.... Originally by: Powerpulse It is easy to preach sermons and spout the they are wrong mutterings of generations of brainwashing. Speaking from your experience as a zealot then I gather? Originally by: Powerpulse Simple I don't judge a man by his race or blood or cultures. I judge a man by his actions in front of me and behind me. On the contrary, you seem to be making sweeping generalized statements about Amarr people and culture, and not judging the actions of individuals. I'm willing to entertain your experiment though, judge me by my actions then. What actions did I take that makes you think I am a self-righteous megalomaniac?
Powerpulse	Posted - 2007.03.09 00:31:00 - [40] ( Just as a side note its a game so I know no resolution will come to anything its just a circular debate :) (1) I do not respond to people who just take pieces out of a full article and nit pick at it with questions. (2) In doing (1) you are deliberatly destroying the flow of understanding and or opionion that was brought into the conversation from the previous sentences. (3) A good debate takes into consideration ALL of a document in ALL of its meaning not just parts that can be snipped out and made to look different then thier initial intent. LOTS of reputations and peoples personal characters have been destroyed that way. If you would like for me to response I encourage you to go through my whole document in order and ask in the flow of the document the questions you have. Also a good discusion is based on looking for an answer not setting up a strawman argument to get a response. (5) I dont do strawman arguments that basic understandings already have an answer to. (b)basic meaning the answer is pretty obvious to most people and if not so then apologies up front. IF you feel you can accomplish these things then I will proceed from thier. As with yourself making the initial statement is just fine. Anybody who disagrees has to bring the burden of proof through more then rhetoric and name calling to convince the original party. SINCE the AMARR believe so much in doing that then DISPROVE what I have said. Otherwise you can let it stand and ignore it or prove it wrong. That choice and Action is yours to take. Also you will notice I did not bring your origninal document into questioning. What I was question the mentality behind it without cutting bits and pieces from it. Good travels and have a good day.

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