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ShadowRat
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Posted - 2007.03.05 09:18:00 -
[1]
Is there bug or misunderstanding that mining foreman skill dont help in mining ice?
1. this give bonus to amount of ore so if I mine 1 ice block that dont help (rounded to 1).
2. It is possible to change it to reduce time cycle for ice stripers?
3. In theory: with mackinaw + stripe miners + mods(mining upgrade?)/gang/skill bonuses it is possible to get 3 ice blocks per 1 stripminer?
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Atherus Shadowstorm
Caldari
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.05 13:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Atherus Shadowstorm on 05/03/2007 12:59:25
1. As i understand it. The ice amout gets rounded down same as most other things in eve. therefore even with Foreman 5 (10%) It will still get rounded back down to 1 unit.
2. Yes. There are 2 things which decrease ice harvester cycle time. Ice Harvesting Skill itself and the Ice Havesting Upgrade Module.
3. Never actually tried it but based on the numbers in Halada's Mining Guide The best you can get is 2 poer strip for a total of 4 per barge. But like i said never actually tried it myself
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Serpreme
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Posted - 2007.03.05 14:01:00 -
[3]
implants that cut off 3% cycle time
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Ceramik
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.05 20:42:00 -
[4]
Get someone in a BC to use a warfare link that decreases cycle time.
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Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.05 22:51:00 -
[5]
In addition to the rounding issues, ice harvesters are set up such that most of the mining yield bonuses have zero effect on them.
Otherwise it would be easy to get a Mackinaw to 3 units/cycle/ice harv - Astro V + Mining V = 1.25^2 = over 1.50.
But none of the mining yield skills affect ice harvesters in any way. The only reason to train mining foreman for ice miners is as a prerequisite for Mining Director, as the ice mining ganglink reduces cycle time.
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Ezra Cornell
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CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.05 23:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: CrayC on 05/03/2007 23:39:07
 Originally by: ShadowRat
3. In theory: with mackinaw + stripe miners + mods(mining upgrade?)/gang/skill bonuses it is possible to get 3 ice blocks per 1 stripminer?
Nope. Not possible. 
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ShadowRat
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Posted - 2007.03.05 23:50:00 -
[7]
Are you shure about that? :D
Try stop your ice harvesters after half of cycle in Mackinaw... what you got? 1 ice cube :D So this mean that minig yeald is counting here too.
Mining barke 5 lev, exhumer lev 4,minig lev 5 , 2x LCM (yes! laser) and you easy get 3 ice cubes from 1 strip.... 6 in two... It is possible to get 8 with gang modules and implants to ... yield amount...
If this work you can gain some bonuses from time and yield of ore...
Think about this ... I will try tomorrow with tests...
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Atherus Shadowstorm
Caldari
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.06 13:49:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Atherus Shadowstorm on 06/03/2007 13:48:35
First off the fact that the mackinaw harvests 2 ice per cycle has nothing to do with mining etc
But the fact that the mack has an in-built 100% yeild bonus for ice.
So unlike with 1 unit it can be split over time. Every other ship in the game however can only harvest 1 unit per cycle.
Secondly (and im not sure if you just mixing terms or actually think this) Strip Miners and Ice harvesters are 2 seperate modules. Strip miners cannot harvest ice and Ice harvesters cannot Mine Ore.
The ONLY module which can harvest ice is the Ice Harvester Module.
Because of this all your other arguements about laser upgrades and mining skill dont matter since they dont count towards Ice Harvesters.
Finally And kinda repeating myself, here are ALL 4 Things which affect Ice Harvesters :
1 Ice harvesting Skill (Reduce Cycle Time)
2. Ice harvesting Upgrade Module (Reduce Cycle Time)
3. Ice Harvesting Mining foreman Link (Reduce Cycle Time)
4. Ice Mining Implants (Reduce Cycle Time)
There is noting in the game aside from the Inbuilt Mackinaw bonus which can increase the amount of ice per cycle you can get
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Mona X
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.06 15:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Atherus Shadowstorm
Finally And kinda repeating myself, here are ALL 4 Things which affect Ice Harvesters :
1 Ice harvesting Skill (Reduce Cycle Time)
2. Ice harvesting Upgrade Module (Reduce Cycle Time)
3. Ice Harvesting Mining foreman Link (Reduce Cycle Time)
4. Ice Mining Implants (Reduce Cycle Time)
5. Ice Harvester II. :D
6. Mining Foreman Mindlink (with Link)
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:46:00 -
[10]
Nice addition, but Atherus' point still stands.
NO yield boni on Ice Mining, just cycle-time reductions.
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Mereena
Minmatar
Lonestar Industries Academy
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Posted - 2007.03.07 08:02:00 -
[11]
With all skills maxed (gang,exhumer,ice mining) and the best implants (Yeti and gang mining) used you get the ice mining cycle on a mack (with t2 ice miners and 2x t1 ice mods) down to 239.xx sec.
Compare that to your current cycle and you will see, everything works as intended.
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ShadowRat
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Posted - 2007.03.07 08:38:00 -
[12]
Still mining foreman dont give you bonus to mining ice.
I make some test and ice harvester 'ore' amount is rounded to 1 but in 0.5 steps ... taht give you 1 ice per half cycle in Mackinaw.
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Sphynix
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Posted - 2007.03.07 13:03:00 -
[13]
Ice miners don't mine "ore", they mine "ice".
Until you can figure that one out you will never figure out the basic difference between the 2 systems.
Ore miners increase volume over time.
Ice miners increase time over volume.
Translated = Ore gets bigger yields, ice gets faster yields.
What your real complaint should be is something more like.
Its not really fair that mining foreman effects Ore mining but not Ice mining. It should effect both equally, by also reducing cycle time on the ice miner.
Just because you get a special bonus from 1 ship doesn't mean that everything else in the game should also give a similar bonus, just because...
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Ratuu
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Posted - 2007.03.07 15:57:00 -
[14]
You can only get 4 ice cubes per cycle with the mackinaw. 3 with a covetor or a hulk.
The ship, skills, mods and implants used in conjunction with ice mining affect the cycle time.
For example.
Currently I have Exhumers V, Ice harvesting V, I fly a mackinaw with 2x T2 Ice miners fitted.
My gang mate has mining director IV and uses the ice harvesting link on a BC.
I have a cycle time of 286 seconds = 2 minutes 46 seconds.
This will improve with the use of implants on my part and my mining director improving his director skill to V and using a mindlink implant.
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ShadowRat
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Posted - 2007.03.08 09:40:00 -
[15]
Thx a lot for yours replays...
But i ask little diferent things here :)
I wonder why 'ice ore' is taken different like normal ore. You as a miner lost a lot of skils added yield eg.. minning and astrogeology. Almost with this two skils (and mining foreman with I start this thread) you lost around 60% (at lev V)of bonus in yield, that is HUGE loss..
Why when you use in example guns all bonuses from weapon modification, tracking, range, speed ... lot of diferent things take place here... but in mining NO :)
You say Fighting is Fighting, mining is mining... ok
But think about this. Maybe there is something that CCP can change.
Thx again for your answers.
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Atherus Shadowstorm
Caldari
Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.08 13:58:00 -
[16]
The honest answer to that last q is that only CCP really knows why so few things affect ice harvesting compaired with ore mining.
My personal best guess is that they want to limit the availability of the products from refining ice. Most importantly Strontium and Liquid ozone used for Seige mode for dreads and cyno fields respectively.
So are trying to vastly limit the ability of even the specific ice mining ship to a small amount over what is quite a long time considering even T1 strips only have a 180sec cycle compaired to the 250 - 300 secs for ice harvesters
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