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LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.30 18:57:53 -
[1] - Quote
Planetary Interaction is certainly due for an overhaul. The fact that there are only 5 skills available in order to completely master PI should be all the evidence you need. The information provided in the PI interfaces lack clarity. The controls are crude, lack precision, and require an excruciating amount of clicking. There are some who will say that all this clicking is what keeps the value of PI so high. I will retort by saying that poor game mechanics should not be the driving force in market value. More skills, more structures, and greater initial investment; these are the most effective ways to keep up the value of PI.
There is tremendous potential for enhanced gameplay with PI. Not all EVE players are interested in PvP exclusively, or even at all. Incorporating a strategy / simulator element to EVE could be very positive. The best part is that it has nothing to do with the way that EVE currently works. What players do on the planets would have very little to do with what players do in outer space. Yet a skilled PI player could grow to hold great influence in the EVE universe.
Currently, PI is considered GÇ£passiveGÇ¥ income. Why does it need to stay that way? Is there not room in the EVE universe for other styles of gameplay?
Ideas:
A list of structures and planetary links is desperately needed. Trying to click on a link between two adjacent structures can be one of the ragiest activities in all of EVE.
Being able to toggle between m3 and units would be very nice when calculating space and link capacity.
Skills for increasing CPU and power grid efficiency for all and/or specific structure types.
Skills for increasing extractor head output, and cycle duration.
Skills for increasing processor efficiency and cycle duration
Skills required for advanced and high-tech processors
Skills for increasing storage space, launchpad storage space, POCO storage space, and planetary commodities cargo space in ships.
Skill that multiples the number of planets you can control by the skill level+1, for a total of 36 planets (requires Planetary Consolidation V, and should require an extremely large amount of SP.)
Layout templates would be AMAZING. Perhaps even a template building tool that incorporates a grid for more precise layouts. And when you are looking at a planet, the template will display planet specific stats (CPU and power grid reqs) based on planet size.
Structure fittings would be logical since everything else uses fittings. This opens the door for PI structure modules and rigs (more industrial goodness!)
Obviously we need blueprints for structures, and why do structures just appear out of thin air anyway? ShouldnGÇÖt we be building processors, storage units, extractors, etc?
Habitation modules for workers. More workers increases productivity, or perhaps effect output, efficiency, CPU usage, power grid usage, etc. Workers consume food, luxuries, and other commodities which are currently on the market yet have absolutely zero purpose. LetGÇÖs consume that stuff! (and make that stuff!)
Dare I even suggest giving capsuleers the ability to bombard PI structures from geo-synchronous orbit? This would open the door for PI defensive structures, shields, orbital defense structures, etcGǪ This also gets the POCO owner more involved since theyGÇÖre making ISK from taxes. Maybe they should take a more active interest in protecting their customersGǪ just saying.
Finally, how about security forces (boots on the ground)? When two players are attempting to extract in the same area (within X km) they can attack with squads (think of them like carrier fighter units). This opens the door for security structures, and skills for the units.
These last two suggestions opens the door for bringing DUST back into the picture, while not requiring it. Whether anyone is playing DUST or not, PI players are still creating content for it right here in the EVE universe.
OK haters and thinkers. Fire away! |

Kei Nagasai
X-COM Navy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.30 22:31:04 -
[2] - Quote
To much like common sense, so CCP will stay well clear of it. Keep in mind, these are the same people who think firing a laser at a building makes it yours, buy stocks in laser pointers people, you'll make a mint. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
10
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 07:05:14 -
[3] - Quote
Kei Nagasai wrote:To much like common sense, so CCP will stay well clear of it. Keep in mind, these are the same people who think firing a laser at a building makes it yours, buy stocks in laser pointers people, you'll make a mint. Say it ain't so... |

KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
39
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 12:28:40 -
[4] - Quote
good work, OP. Thoughtful, comprehensive, creative, respectful. All the things I look for in a "how to make it better" post. |

Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
307
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 15:03:18 -
[5] - Quote
I like the concept but there seems to be a lot of development effort. Perhaps something simpler to start.
1. Player built Command Centers. Simply replace the existing NPC stock with BPO's seeded at the same stations.
2. Advanced planetary consolidation skill. Rank 8 skill that increases the number of colonies 1 per level to a maximum of 11. Prerequisite planetary consolidation 5
3. Advanced command center upgrades. Rank 8 skill that increases CPU and Power Grid by 2% per level. Prerequisite command center upgrades 5
4. Re-purpose remote sensing skill to provide a maximum range (in jumps) for colony management. Perhaps 5 jumps per level similar to scientific networking and supply chain management.
5. Anything that could reduce then number of clicks would be a bonus!
It seems to me that this would require relatively little development effort while making PI a viable profession without needing an army of ALTs. The new structures need a LOT of PI, I doubt these upgrades will lead to oversupply.
Not to suggest the other enhancements are without merit but something quick and easy that benefits the new structure gameplay has a better chance of getting on the roadmap. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
13
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 15:30:45 -
[6] - Quote
I tried to combine the easiest, with the most important items first. I agree that we have a better chance of getting the easy stuff first. However, I truly believe that if they put a tenth as much development into PI as they did into citidels, PI would be pretty incredible, and could pave the way for many new aspects of politics and content creation in the future. I've done a little programming in my day, and making a little window thingy with a little bit of aggregate data isn't too terribly hard. Adding skills that affect existing objects would also be fairly simple. Now, a PI template system would probably take a little bit of effort, but since very little effort has been put into PI since forever, maybe it's not too much to ask?  |

Nicola Romanoff
Lineark
30
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 15:32:15 -
[7] - Quote
Some of the points are good; some I think are too far like habitation modules. I would also like to get a few more planets although I think 36 per toon is too much, perhaps a maximum of 9 or 10.
Since they removed NPC pocos in high sec and couple with the abysmal yields in high sec I think that area needs looking at, I donGÇÖt think that in reality having POCO in high sec has produced much in the way of conflict (CCP may have figures to disprove this) but I think that both of those things has really done is kill off high sec PI.
I would like to see more skills for PG and CPU though I think that would be handy as well as templates, and clever routing of goods, also and something that has bugged me for ages is letGÇÖs say I set up a basic factory for toxic metals, I would like all subsequent factories to be toxic metals until I change it to something else.
|

Arianne Kass
Garoun Long-Term Capital Management
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 15:48:13 -
[8] - Quote
As per captain Chode: "You mean to tell me that with all the crap that's broken on this ship you start with the ******* ice machine?". PI is a mess but looking at all the other issues EVE has, including the citadels and the still-to-be-released industrial platforms I would certainly not say that "the time has come" for a PI revamp.
That said the single biggest improvement that could be made for player PI participation right now is a single button "restart extraction on all colonies on the same cycle as previous", at the risk of plummeting prices on P1 and P2 materials for myself.
In my experience - sitting in Sov nullsec with very decent tax rates - about half the players I know have stopped milking their PI planets due to the sheer tedium of the PI interface. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
13
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 15:53:37 -
[9] - Quote
Nicola Romanoff wrote:Some of the points are good; some I think are too far like habitation modules. I would also like to get a few more planets although I think 36 per toon is too much, perhaps a maximum of 9 or 10. Obviously CCP would do whatever they feel is best, but I think if someone wants to lock up their skill que for half a year to get that many planets, let them. Who knows what kind of madness could be caused by someone generating that much activity? 36 planets is a full time job! LOL
Nicola Romanoff wrote:Since they removed NPC pocos in high sec and couple with the abysmal yields in high sec I think that area needs looking at, I donGÇÖt think that in reality having POCO in high sec has produced much in the way of conflict (CCP may have figures to disprove this) but I think that both of those things has really done is kill off high sec PI. I agree 100%. Player owned POCOs in high sec have made highsec PI utterly pointless. Who wants to wardec over a crappy garbage planet anyway?
Nicola Romanoff wrote:I would like to see more skills for PG and CPU though I think that would be handy as well as templates, and clever routing of goods, also and something that has bugged me for ages is letGÇÖs say I set up a basic factory for toxic metals, I would like all subsequent factories to be toxic metals until I change it to something else. Little things like this are very useful. The more ideas we can throw at them to mull over, the easier it will be to make some useful changes for us!
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
13
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 16:02:09 -
[10] - Quote
Arianne Kass wrote:As per captain Chode: "You mean to tell me that with all the crap that's broken on this ship you start with the ******* ice machine?". PI is a mess but looking at all the other issues EVE has, including the citadels and the still-to-be-released industrial platforms I would certainly not say that "the time has come" for a PI revamp.
That said the single biggest improvement that could be made for player PI participation right now is a single button "restart extraction on all colonies on the same cycle as previous", at the risk of plummeting prices on P1 and P2 materials for myself.
In my experience - sitting in Sov nullsec with very decent tax rates - about half the players I know have stopped milking their PI planets due to the sheer tedium of the PI interface. EVE will always have ongoing development and issues that need to be resolved. That is exactly why PI has remained the redheaded stepchild for so so so so so so so loooonnnng. I'm saying it's time to put it on the development calendar. It's time to start talking about it. And I think everyone can agree that a few small changes could make a world of difference until a full project team can be allocated to really ramp up PI development.
And that's another really great idea that could be implemented without too much trouble! |

Vincenzo Arbosa
Locust Assets
74
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 20:56:41 -
[11] - Quote
I like all of the above suggestions. Some of them are slight adjustments to ideas that others have made over the years, while others seem fresh and interesting.
I only hope CCP is reading.
"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."-á
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
15
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 22:23:35 -
[12] - Quote
I am positive that there have been many great ideas over the years. Let's compile as many of them as possible in this thread. I plan on throwing together a proposal for a new PI skill tree. I'm sure someone has already done one (or a few). I'd love to see them, revamp them, build upon them, or just stand in awe of them. Definitely don't want to reinvent the wheel, but I couldn't possibly sift through years of neglected forum posts to find those gems.
I'm sure someone from CCP has already looked at the thread. We'll just keep going until they give us the changes we need!    |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
5
|
Posted - 2016.07.09 20:03:33 -
[13] - Quote
One simple change I'd like to see is the ability to save a "layout" of extractor heads in a similar (but 2D) way to how you can save a layout of scan probes.
Rather than having to drag each head individually each time, you'd only have to select the saved layout you want and drag the whole layout to where you want it. |

morion
Lighting Build
103
|
Posted - 2016.07.10 08:42:29 -
[14] - Quote
I never understood why when POCO transitioned to player assets collecting player tax.
Tax collected is used to buy zero Ice fuel to keep the structure operating.
I know terrible game play to just farm free tax.
requires zero thought whether or not the structure is profitable they all are.
|

Morphs hope
Pure Pleassue Seaker What Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.07.11 15:17:08 -
[15] - Quote
Take out the first sentence and this can generally be applied to any or most of eves specialised areas. Trading, research, manufacturing ect. It's a shame all in all as their is scope for so much more but that's not the direction CCP seems to want to follow. |

Hound Halfhand
Repo Industries
33
|
Posted - 2016.07.12 11:39:15 -
[16] - Quote
Add a new structure called a Spaceport. It can only be fitted to a Fortizar or Keepstar. Allows the import of PI from a planet to the structure for a an "import tax" without the player having to go pick everything up from the customs office everyday. Remove the "export" tax from the customs office. It is very misleading anyways. Lots of players view a %5 tax as only 5%, regardless of how much they import from one planet to the next.
Make everything more Sim City like. The longer you have your planets and the better managed they are, the more you produce from them. Also, make everything more realistic such as having domed cities on barren planets, regular cities on temperate planets, robotic factories on storm planets, floating cities on ocean planets, etc.
CCP can add a lot of depth with PI and now that the materials produced are so integral to game play, they have lots of options. |

Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort Test Alliance Please Ignore
140
|
Posted - 2016.07.12 16:51:43 -
[17] - Quote
How about they just get rid of all the different kinds of structures and have it all self contained.
- The command center becomes the only building and can move around the planet.
- There is a radius around it where it pulls resources from.
- You still are limited by CPU and Grid
- You can "Fit" you command center how you want. - A mod for launch pad - A mod for extractor (could have more than one obviously and each one can pull different resources if desired) - A "factory" mod to make what you want. - A "storage" mod to hold stuff.
Note: When I say "mod" I am not meaning a physical mod that you have the transport. Have them still appear out of no where like the current buildings. They could still cost isk.
Keep it fairly simple and use the ship/citadel fitting window as a template to get started. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
17
|
Posted - 2016.07.28 16:15:38 -
[18] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:How about they just get rid of all the different kinds of structures and have it all self contained.
- The command center becomes the only building and can move around the planet.
- There is a radius around it where it pulls resources from.
- You still are limited by CPU and Grid
- You can "Fit" you command center how you want. - A mod for launch pad - A mod for extractor (could have more than one obviously and each one can pull different resources if desired) - A "factory" mod to make what you want. - A "storage" mod to hold stuff.
Note: When I say "mod" I am not meaning a physical mod that you have the transport. Have them still appear out of no where like the current buildings. They could still cost isk.
Keep it fairly simple and use the ship/citadel fitting window as a template to get started.
At first, I absolutely hated this idea. To me, this idea seems to kill the whole concept of planetary interaction. You're basically turning your CC into a giant extractor head and launch pad. Sounds pretty boring to me, like the final nail in the PI coffin.
But then again...
Perhaps, this is the entry level mechanics. For new players, and for players that don't want to invest a great deal of time into their PI. The CC has slots based on the CC skill, and you can fit a myriad of modules based on other skills. In the beginning, you can only fit basic structure modules. It seems logical that storage and launch pad modules would be low power slots, factories would be mid-power, and extractor heads would be high-power. But I still think you should physically install the modules, and that those modules should be made by players (like everything else in EVE.) However, as you increase your skill, you can purchase or manufacture extra buildings (extractors, storage, factories) and place them on the planet. This would free up your CC slots for other modules to boost power, CPU, extractor efficiency, factory efficiency, storage space, etc. Each building would have its' own slots as well (only a few though.)
Perhaps this is the best way to keep PI accessible to the average capsuleer, but still allow PI to grow into something more for the players who prefer that style of gameplay. SimCity didn't become one of the most popular gaming platforms in history by "keeping it simple". You can't tell me that more advanced PI would hurt current subscriptions. I believe it would help to expand it, and in doing so it would create a larger market for courier contracts and greater opportunities for pirates. Juast sayin. |

Raker Plaude
Australian Belt Strippers Apocalypse Now.
4
|
Posted - 2016.07.28 22:26:43 -
[19] - Quote
It keeps in line the system with other systems within Eve (ships, citidels) quite nicely. And you're right Complicated-Named-Poster-above-me, it would allow for some nice ways to expand.
I enjoy the complexity of PI (routing all the goods to the correct places etc) but could see it getting old quickly as you scale up between other accounts. |

Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
150
|
Posted - 2016.07.29 20:02:52 -
[20] - Quote
I really want the ability to streamline PI among multiple coordinating players/corp members/alts. It could really be fun as a group enterprise.
Would love to be able to share links and buildings with corp mates on the same planet to build super factories, super storage, or a great web of extractors.
Would make my life so much less stressful if trusted allies could send my materials to and from the POCO. It would be great if they could also unload things from the POCO and haul it for me.
Right now it's like I go to the PI interface and play a frustrating game of minesweeper by myself for 10-20 minutes where the interface is defective and I'm constantly getting blown up, doing that multiple times per week, then at the end of the week I get to sell a 2-hour video of myself playing minesweeper to people that are too lazy to play it themselves.
|

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6304
|
Posted - 2016.07.29 22:01:29 -
[21] - Quote
Planetary Interaction was a "Jesus Feature". Though adding to it was promised (no racing stripes, i.e. real substantial game-play additions only), ECUs, storage facilities, and POCOs were the extent of it.
Scroll to the end of Dev Blog - Planetary Interaction: Impossible is our middle name and read that. CCP Soundwave left CCP.
CCP Soundwave wrote:Part of the feedback we get from the CSM (and many of you), is that we donGÇÖt put enough development time into features after they are released. In some cases, you are right, weGÇÖre stuck between the evolution of EVE and the rebuilding of feature infrastructure to help it grow. Sadly we canGÇÖt clone ourselves (YET).
So weGÇÖre going to try and give this feature the attention we feel it deserves, dedicating a full development team to continue working on planetary interaction after its release. As Team Pi has primarily been working on planetary infrastructure, they will take on the challenge of improving the feature in the next release as well. So when Team BFF waves goodbye to planetary interaction and moves on, Team Pi will continue to make improvements. I don't think Team PI survived the massive CCP layoffs of post-Incarna.
Planetary Interaction changes brought with Incursion 1.1.0, dated 2011-01-28, was the ECU change. POCOs followed in that same year, and were enabled in hisec in 2013. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
18
|
Posted - 2016.07.29 23:08:04 -
[22] - Quote
This is very useful info. I wasn't around back then, so I'm just not up on my PI politics I suppose.
So basically nothing has been done with PI in over FIVE YEARS, aside from allowing POCOs in high sec.
I'm totally right then. The time has come. Technology has improved tremendously since the olden days. Certainly the servers can handle a more robust PI implementation.
Come on CCP, finish what you started. |

Thomas Lot
Astrocomical Warped Intentions
30
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 14:12:52 -
[23] - Quote
Be careful here though...
I like the difficulty of the interaction and the endless clicking for one reason above all, it makes the number of PI toons at a reasonable level. If PI was made too easy more people would jump in and depress the price of materials to such an extent that time/value would not be worth it any longer. We that have solved the PI user interface and come to terms with a method for ourselves should closely guard our secret passive income! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
19
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 14:47:30 -
[24] - Quote
Thomas Lot wrote:Be careful here though...
I like the difficulty of the interaction and the endless clicking for one reason above all, it makes the number of PI toons at a reasonable level. If PI was made too easy more people would jump in and depress the price of materials to such an extent that time/value would not be worth it any longer. We that have solved the PI user interface and come to terms with a method for ourselves should closely guard our secret passive income! Ahh yes. Back to my favorite argument. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, and I'm absolutely certain that you game design theorists will back me up here - Bad game mechanics should never be the driving force behind player activity. If bad game mechanics is the thing that keeps people from using a particular aspect or feature of the game, it should be fixed.
Also, the whole point of this discussion is about lifting PI out of the "passive" income category, and into the "active" income category. I understand if you see PI as a curious "mini-game", but some of us see the potential for some greatly expanded facets of gameplay. |

Kali Starchaser
BlackheartGamers Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
11
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 15:44:14 -
[25] - Quote
Something I would like to see implemented is a change to having a multi-hour cool-down for expedited transfers from a launchpad to a silo. I literally have 2-4 hour cool-downs when moving my PI around from orbit to my production farms PER SILO. I have 5 silos on one setup. There is a way around the cool-down currently but at the cost of almost 1m ISK at a time to destroy a launchpad and build a new one. At my current rate of building, that is going to cost me over 150m ISK a month just to avoid the cool-down of moving PI into different silos.
What I propose would be the ability to route materials from a launchpad into different silos, working similar to the resource extractors. Say every 15-30 minutes a set amount of m3 is moved from the LP to designated silos, allowing the player to just drop from the POCO to the planet, and let the worker bees move all the materials around without having to come back every 4 hours just to move stuff into ONE silo at a time. Option 2 would be to just do away with the expedited transfer cool-down entirely. It really doesn't seem to serve much purpose that I can understand and is frustrating and a time/money sink that doesn't really need to be there. |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
14
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 18:30:44 -
[26] - Quote
Kali Starchaser wrote:Something I would like to see implemented is a change to having a multi-hour cool-down for expedited transfers from a launchpad to a silo. I literally have 2-4 hour cool-downs when moving my PI around from orbit to my production farms PER SILO. I have 5 silos on one setup. There is a way around the cool-down currently but at the cost of almost 1m ISK at a time to destroy a launchpad and build a new one. At my current rate of building, that is going to cost me over 150m ISK a month just to avoid the cool-down of moving PI into different silos.
What I propose would be the ability to route materials from a launchpad into different silos, working similar to the resource extractors. Say every 15-30 minutes a set amount of m3 is moved from the LP to designated silos, allowing the player to just drop from the POCO to the planet, and let the worker bees move all the materials around without having to come back every 4 hours just to move stuff into ONE silo at a time. Option 2 would be to just do away with the expedited transfer cool-down entirely. It really doesn't seem to serve much purpose that I can understand and is frustrating and a time/money sink that doesn't really need to be there.
Upgrade the links. The Cooldown time on expedited transfers is proportional to how overloaded the link used to do the transfer was when you did it. |

Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1162
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:18:08 -
[27] - Quote
As a POCO owner.... Yes they do generate conflict. The problem is knowing what planets are worth fighting for. A temperate planet near Jita is a gold mine. A random gas planet in nul, not worth it. When RvB lost a portion of POCOs to break-a-wish, 10 POCOs made the majority of our income and losing those hurt. The remaining ones don't make a 10th as much. Some way of seeing the profitability of a hi sec POCO may help drive conflict which would be nice.
Other thoughts... Fuel is a scary idea for 2 reasons... One you are making eve more job like which burns people out. We in RvB were given some random POCOs. Having to fuel the ones in nul would suck. Granted they make no real income anyways but they would suck. The second reason, I dislike punishing random players for the laziness of others. Sure in say a nul alliance you can get mad at some guy for not fueling the jump bridge. But hi sec POCO fuel? It would punish random people just because I was lazy and didn't fuel it. This would have to be something carefully balanced to work (like my Corp makes no tax of the POCO is not fueled, but tax rates don't change and an unfueled POCO doesn't hurt the guy running pi.)
Also... Please can we get a better way to transfer POCOs? I have to transfer each one individually and that can only be done in system where the POCO is located. Plus when looking at assets in space, it tells you how many POCOs you have in a system but it never tells you what planet specifically. So if you have 2 in a system with 12 planets, you have to right click and check each planet to see which has the transfer option. |

Kali Starchaser
BlackheartGamers Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
11
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 00:28:47 -
[28] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:Upgrade the links. The Cooldown time on expedited transfers is proportional to how overloaded the link used to do the transfer was when you did it.
That just killed some of my transfer times from 1.5 hours to 36 minutes, I don't think I've ever been aware you could even upgrade links before. GÖÑ |

Krysenth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 06:40:41 -
[29] - Quote
The biggest thing I would like to see is the ability to OFFLINE infrastructure so that I can retain that infrastructure and then online say, a p0 extraction setup. Then when I want to go back to a production planet setup, I offline my extractors n stuff and then online all the labs. And thanks for the link upgrade tip. Transfer times were making manu-planets an exercise in babysitting. |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
14
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 10:14:04 -
[30] - Quote
Kali Starchaser wrote:Kalido Raddi wrote:Upgrade the links. The Cooldown time on expedited transfers is proportional to how overloaded the link used to do the transfer was when you did it. That just killed some of my transfer times from 1.5 hours to 36 minutes, I don't think I've ever been aware you could even upgrade links before. GÖÑ You're welcome!
You can upgrade them multiple times. Apart from expedited transfer cooldowns, the only time I've ever had to do so is on a really rich planet with an intense extraction cycle where the extractor output per hour at the start of the cycle was more than the link could transfer. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.05 02:48:25 -
[31] - Quote
Krysenth wrote:The biggest thing I would like to see is the ability to OFFLINE infrastructure so that I can retain that infrastructure and then online say, a p0 extraction setup. Then when I want to go back to a production planet setup, I offline my extractors n stuff and then online all the labs. And thanks for the link upgrade tip. Transfer times were making manu-planets an exercise in babysitting.
Being able to OFFLINE a structure (and disable a link) would be AMAZING. Great point! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.05 03:06:37 -
[32] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As a POCO owner.... Yes they do generate conflict. The problem is knowing what planets are worth fighting for. A temperate planet near Jita is a gold mine. A random gas planet in nul, not worth it. When RvB lost a portion of POCOs to break-a-wish, 10 POCOs made the majority of our income and losing those hurt. The remaining ones don't make a 10th as much. Some way of seeing the profitability of a hi sec POCO may help drive conflict which would be nice.
Other thoughts... Fuel is a scary idea for 2 reasons... One you are making eve more job like which burns people out. We in RvB were given some random POCOs. Having to fuel the ones in nul would suck. Granted they make no real income anyways but they would suck. The second reason, I dislike punishing random players for the laziness of others. Sure in say a nul alliance you can get mad at some guy for not fueling the jump bridge. But hi sec POCO fuel? It would punish random people just because I was lazy and didn't fuel it. This would have to be something carefully balanced to work (like my Corp makes no tax of the POCO is not fueled, but tax rates don't change and an unfueled POCO doesn't hurt the guy running pi.)
Also... Please can we get a better way to transfer POCOs? I have to transfer each one individually and that can only be done in system where the POCO is located. Plus when looking at assets in space, it tells you how many POCOs you have in a system but it never tells you what planet specifically. So if you have 2 in a system with 12 planets, you have to right click and check each planet to see which has the transfer option.
The flip-side is this:
if the income is that important to you, you should take a little more care in keeping it. Income can't get any more passive than throwing an icon in space, taking it online, and then never looking at it again...
P r e t t y . . l a z y . . . if you ask me.
If PI was ramped up, it could become vital to maintain POCOs, and thus profitable for the players who do.
There should be a symbiosis between the PI player (producer), the POCO owner (planetary defense), and the couriers (distribution). Sure, there will be jerks who disrupt the balance, but that's what makes it fun, and more expensive.
I have NEVER communicated with the owners of my POCOs. There is no reason to, other than to flag myself for potential ganking. It would be great if the PI players and POCO owners had a reason to communicate.
Take pride in your rig POCO owner! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.10 03:04:35 -
[33] - Quote
Kali Starchaser wrote:What I propose would be the ability to route materials from a launchpad into different silos, working similar to the resource extractors. Say every 15-30 minutes a set amount of m3 is moved from the LP to designated silos, allowing the player to just drop from the POCO to the planet, and let the worker bees move all the materials around without having to come back every 4 hours just to move stuff into ONE silo at a time. Option 2 would be to just do away with the expedited transfer cool-down entirely. It really doesn't seem to serve much purpose that I can understand and is frustrating and a time/money sink that doesn't really need to be there.
I also think that the expedited transfer function is unnecessarily cumbersome in it's current form. I'd like to see an automated process where you can route a product from one storage unit to another (CC and LP as well). The size and frequency of the transfers are based on the upgrade level of the links over which the transfer must travel. If a more substantial skill tree were implemented for PI, then other skills would affect it as well. |

morion
Lighting Build
115
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 14:17:38 -
[34] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As a POCO owner.... Yes they do generate conflict. The problem is knowing what planets are worth fighting for. A temperate planet near Jita is a gold mine. A random gas planet in nul, not worth it. When RvB lost a portion of POCOs to break-a-wish, 10 POCOs made the majority of our income and losing those hurt. The remaining ones don't make a 10th as much. Some way of seeing the profitability of a hi sec POCO may help drive conflict which would be nice.
Other thoughts... Fuel is a scary idea for 2 reasons... One you are making eve more job like which burns people out. We in RvB were given some random POCOs. Having to fuel the ones in nul would suck. Granted they make no real income anyways but they would suck. The second reason, I dislike punishing random players for the laziness of others. Sure in say a nul alliance you can get mad at some guy for not fueling the jump bridge. But hi sec POCO fuel? It would punish random people just because I was lazy and didn't fuel it. This would have to be something carefully balanced to work (like my Corp makes no tax of the POCO is not fueled, but tax rates don't change and an unfueled POCO doesn't hurt the guy running pi.)
Also... Please can we get a better way to transfer POCOs? I have to transfer each one individually and that can only be done in system where the POCO is located. Plus when looking at assets in space, it tells you how many POCOs you have in a system but it never tells you what planet specifically. So if you have 2 in a system with 12 planets, you have to right click and check each planet to see which has the transfer option.
POCO is a industrial infrastructure.
Currently these structure are conflict drivers in a combat not a logistics sense.
being both could be far moor interesting.
Industrial structures that industry characters use that do logistics by nature.
just as with jump fatigue putting the Kibosh on force projection.
Logistics for ownership and tax could have a similar effect.
Solution to not effecting users where you mention being unfuel.
Immediate forfeiture when fuel is depleted and ownership captured apon a full refueling.
Not the one fuel block cycle for compression small POS joke the rorqual got robed of its role for.
But that was also the 50% refine alteration mix with mod compression.
When a user finds POCO off line they simply need fully fuel it and accept ownership and set tax rate.
Or shoot it because its derelict
User in NPC corp refueling would revert back to a npc CO.<--sinking the PI
Further moor say a CO / POCO goes 30 days "unfueled = No use" junk clean up can despawn the thing
Derelict acts as a PI sink too.
TLDR: owning a PI POCO farm could require moor than just a military. |

Ashlar Maidstone
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
249
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 16:17:37 -
[35] - Quote
@OP, every point you made is dead on center, and as an indy/explorer I too find some of the things you high lighted to be true and really just repetitionous in its own right. I too would just love to see PI overhauled to where those of us that do "enjoy" doing PI, to see a better quality of life in the way we work our colonies.
I do have one question tho, how many colonies can you have on one character? I thought it was six (6), but you said 36??? |

Solecist Project
32018
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 17:09:35 -
[36] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:It would punish random people just because I was lazy and didn't fuel it. No, it wouldn't. This is not an EVE like mindset you're putting up for display.
First of all is there no reason to support lazy people.
Conviniences are not necessarily a good thing! Inconviniences on the other hand make people work for what they have and make them value what they are working for. Lazyness should not ever be promoted or supported, because that just breeds bad attitudes (or exposes them). People who do not care about anything anymore because it's all easy/convinient/for the lazy.
You say you would be punished for being lazy.
I say: YOU DESERVE THAT EXACTLY FOR BEING LAZY! Work for your isk. If you can't fuel it then you don't deserve it.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 17:23:48 -
[37] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:@OP, every point you made is dead on center, and as an indy/explorer I too find some of the things you high lighted to be true and really just repetitionous in its own right. I too would just love to see PI overhauled to where those of us that do "enjoy" doing PI, to see a better quality of life in the way we work our colonies.
I do have one question tho, how many colonies can you have on one character? I thought it was six (6), but you said 36???
LOL No. 6 is current max. I suggested 36 as an extension with "Advanced Interplanetary Consolidation" with +5 colonies per level. But Looking back at it, I think that number looks a little high... LOL Maybe +2 or +3... |

Solecist Project
32019
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 18:08:18 -
[38] - Quote
LUH-3417 Ormand wrote:Ashlar Maidstone wrote:@OP, every point you made is dead on center, and as an indy/explorer I too find some of the things you high lighted to be true and really just repetitionous in its own right. I too would just love to see PI overhauled to where those of us that do "enjoy" doing PI, to see a better quality of life in the way we work our colonies.
I do have one question tho, how many colonies can you have on one character? I thought it was six (6), but you said 36??? LOL No. 6 is current max. I suggested 36 as an extension with "Advanced Interplanetary Consolidation" with +5 colonies per level. But Looking back at it, I think that number looks a little high... LOL Maybe +2 or +3... An increase in colonies per account would lead to a reduction of subbed accounts.
I guess he has at least six characters owning pi farms. It's reasonable to assume that a lot of people have several characters committed to PI just for the low-effort-rewards.
slowly i am starting to see the actual magnitutde of how much this game gears towards the lazy and inconvinienceables.
Is that a word? It should be a word!
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
20
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 18:31:21 -
[39] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I guess he has at least six characters owning pi farms. It's reasonable to assume that a lot of people have several characters committed to PI just for the low-effort-rewards.
slowly i am starting to see the actual magnitutde of how much this game gears towards the lazy and inconvinienceables.
Is that a word? It should be a word!
I was suggesting an advanced skill that would allow more dedicated users to have more colonies. But I have heard of people allocating multiple toons for PI. I don't think it's a matter of laziness (in most cases), I think it's a matter of gameplay style. Not everyone is into PvP as dominant mode of play. Some people seek other methods of enjoying the game. I'm not much into PvP (seems like a waste of ISK), but I do enjoy the thrill of danger while lurking about in nullsec and kspace.
And I've never seen anyone use that word, so you are the first! |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
16
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 19:12:46 -
[40] - Quote
Having multiple PI toons - or even PI accounts - is common because PI not only scales well, but scales efficiently.
With one PI toon, you'll find yourself doing a lot of freighting to get the resources you need to build anything significant.
With multiple PI toons, you can base each PI toon in one or two systems, harvest what's good locally, and then only do freighting rarely.
The time investment per character actually goes down as the number of characters goes up. This is why the serious PI producers can have 15+ PI toons (and yes, I *do* know people with that many - there are probably people with more). |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 19:46:04 -
[41] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:Having multiple PI toons - or even PI accounts - is common because PI not only scales well, but scales efficiently.
With one PI toon, you'll find yourself doing a lot of freighting to get the resources you need to build anything significant.
With multiple PI toons, you can base each PI toon in one or two systems, harvest what's good locally, and then only do freighting rarely.
The time investment per character actually goes down as the number of characters goes up. This is why the serious PI producers can have 15+ PI toons (and yes, I *do* know people with that many - there are probably people with more).
Do you think these players would be interested in an expansion of PI complexity, diversity, and functionality? Or do you think the mega-producers want it to stay the way it is? |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
17
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 20:31:45 -
[42] - Quote
LUH-3417 Ormand wrote:Do you think these players would be interested in an expansion of PI complexity, diversity, and functionality? Or do you think the mega-producers want it to stay the way it is? Oh large-scale producers will find ways to make ISK whatever you do. I don't think anyone would object to PI becoming a more engaging & varied form of gameplay though.
I'd like to see POCOs changed to be more in line with the new Citadels, so that they can be upgraded with different modules, that have various "Terraforming" effects on the planets surface, or change the way modules down there operate.
So a Lava Planet might be fitted (for example) with a "Tectonic Destabilizer Rig" that increases the rate at which Felsic Magma hotspots appear and the output from them, but have the drawback that they deplete and move around faster - so players using the planet have to manage their ECUs much more intensively.
Or you could fit the POCO/Citadel with an "Orbital Power Array Downlink Rig" that increases the PowerGrid of any Command Centres on Planet, but reduces their CPU.
Another idea would be a "Suborbital Transfer Routing Rig" that reduces the effect of distance on Links.
With things like this POCO owners would no longer be passive (these things would, of course, need fuel), but active and would have to manage their POCOs (or pay someone to do it for them).
A much smaller thing that needs to be added is BPOs for Command Centres. That's such an obvious change I can't believe it hasn't been done yet. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 20:42:01 -
[43] - Quote
I would also love to see fittings on POCOs. I LOVE the idea of terraforming modules! So good! |

Ashlar Maidstone
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
250
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 20:48:43 -
[44] - Quote
@OP, ok thank you very much, I was wondering what da, LOL! So technically one account is 18 installations times two which would be two accounts then, thank you! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.11 21:16:40 -
[45] - Quote
Ashlar Maidstone wrote:@OP, ok thank you very much, I was wondering what da, LOL! So technically one account is 18 installations times two which would be two accounts then, thank you! There were actually two conversations going on. One was about multi-account PI setups.
The other was where I was suggesting an advanced skill that allows a character to run more colonies.
My intention in this was to incentivize PI multiboxers to consolidate their PI setups into a few toons instead of using so many. If the other skills that I propose were actually implemented, PI would become much more SP intensive, and would then be more difficult to master on multiple toons.
Giving a single toon access to a much larger number of colonies would be a tradeoff against it being so difficult to master PI on multiple toons. |

Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
18
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 00:23:24 -
[46] - Quote
The limiting factor on any PI setup is time, not ISK; any PI account easily pays for its own gametime via PLEX.
I can't see CCP taking any move that will reduce the number of accounts subbed. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
21
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 01:18:39 -
[47] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:The limiting factor on any PI setup is time, not ISK; any PI account easily pays for its own gametime via PLEX.
I can't see CCP taking any move that will reduce the number of accounts subbed.
Agreed.
Although I doubt subs would go down from this. By default, each account generates SP for one toon at a time. By turning PI into an SP sink, you actually increase the market for injectors and MCTs. If I can increase total revenue generated on each account, while making the other two toons in my account available for other activities... I'm not going to drop an account. in fact, I might be more inclined to add an account. And then of course... you can always train up your other toons for PI as well...
Personally, my goal is to make PI competitive. In doing so, we create conflict in space. Plus, we can further pave the way for full DUST integration (hopefully that's still a goal). Create competition on the planet surface, and add functionality that allows players to create the DUST content whether there are DUST players or not. If PI players were already attacking each other with AI units, CCP would have all the content they need to allow DUST to grow organically WITHIN the EVE universe.
And if not... hey, at least PI would still be better, and a much larger SP sink. |

Solecist Project
32029
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 12:20:27 -
[48] - Quote
LUH-3417 Ormand wrote:Solecist Project wrote:I guess he has at least six characters owning pi farms. It's reasonable to assume that a lot of people have several characters committed to PI just for the low-effort-rewards.
slowly i am starting to see the actual magnitutde of how much this game gears towards the lazy and inconvinienceables.
Is that a word? It should be a word! I was suggesting an advanced skill that would allow more dedicated users to have more colonies. But I have heard of people allocating multiple toons for PI. I don't think it's a matter of laziness (in most cases), I think it's a matter of gameplay style. Not everyone is into PvP as dominant mode of play. Some people seek other methods of enjoying the game. I'm not much into PvP (seems like a waste of ISK), but I do enjoy the thrill of danger while lurking about in nullsec and kspace. And I've never seen anyone use that word, so you are the first! I have no idea how you managed to make that leap from lazy people to the rest you wrote. Lazy people are lazy, it doesn't matter what activity they are lazy in. They still demand conviniences which they shouldn't have.
Gameplay style is irrelevant to the game as a whole and being lazy by itself is not a style.
You're mixing two things that don't go together.
Anyhow, don't want to derwil. I am all for an overhaul that adds proper social dynamics and interaction and makes sure that those who deserve it have their POCOs and income. So: not everyone who thinks "i pay so i deserve it".
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
|

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2746
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 12:55:48 -
[49] - Quote
Somebody took over the POCOs in my area of PI ... and lowered the tax, I'm happy with this. 
Not so happy I'm with the crashing prices on half the stuff I produce ... 
I'm my own NPC alt.
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.12 14:05:12 -
[50] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I have no idea how you managed to make that leap from lazy people to the rest you wrote. Lazy people are lazy, it doesn't matter what activity they are lazy in. They still demand conviniences which they shouldn't have.
Gameplay style is irrelevant to the game as a whole and being lazy by itself is not a style.
You're mixing two things that don't go together.
Anyhow, don't want to derwil. I am all for an overhaul that adds proper social dynamics and interaction and makes sure that those who deserve it have their POCOs and income. So: not everyone who thinks "i pay so i deserve it". Sorry, I have a tendency to leapfrog topics.
Laziness is definitely a gaming style. It's where you spend more time whining in forums about how "things would be better if money just appeared in my account, and we need more teleporters" than you do actually playing a game. I don't care much for that gaming style either.
Glad you're on board! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
22
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:56:36 -
[51] - Quote
I think that PI should produce all of the consumer goods that are currently seeded by the NPC market. And then colonies should require a certain amount of those consumer goods in order to continue running at max efficiency. Each planet should be capable of producing some of those goods on their own, but the "best" goods for that type of planet should always come from another planet type.
This would allow for a greater expansion of PI activity, while providing a nerf, or sink, for excessive PI production. Meanwhile, with enough skills and mastery, you should be able to streamline PI into a much more profitable activity than it currently is. |

Freelancer117
so you want to be a Hero
512
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 17:53:32 -
[52] - Quote
http://crossingzebras.com/we-need-to-talk-about-pi/
By Banden Lokemir - great article with 3 quality of life fixes 
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
|

Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
90
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 20:32:31 -
[53] - Quote
Nice to see a sensible discussion for once, however I am suprised an ISD has not moved this thread to 'Players Features and ideas discussions thread'.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
|

Red lensman
BlackSky inc.
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.18 11:32:19 -
[54] - Quote
a lot of high sec custom offices are locked out for any one but the owners to use |

Alessienne Ellecon
Solitude Rangers
62
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 21:20:10 -
[55] - Quote
How about integration with citadels? You could launch commodities from the Command Centre to a citadel nearby (say within 5000km of the planet) load by load if you wanted to avoid an onerous POCO tax. This would be especially helpful if you're a P4 producer. |

MarjoMecra
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 10:30:25 -
[56] - Quote
I would love to see something like "sim city" but for building a big PI chain on a planet. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5956
|
Posted - 2016.10.23 10:53:19 -
[57] - Quote
Remember to design from the start with the ability to interfere with someone else's production in mind.
"Nice clean water source you have there. It would be a shame if someone polluted it."
"Nice space elevator you have there. It would be a shame if someone was to sabotage it."
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
27
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:34:04 -
[58] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:http://crossingzebras.com/we-need-to-talk-about-pi/ By Banden Lokemir - great article with 3 quality of life fixes  Nice article. I like the proposed changes to the GUI. Does nothing to expand PI gameplay though... just pretty pictures and a little less clicking.
It really excited me to see CZ calling for a PI overhaul though. That's HUGE.
Thanks for sharing this! |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
27
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:36:33 -
[59] - Quote
Anke Eyrou wrote:Nice to see a sensible discussion for once, however I am suprised an ISD has not moved this thread to 'Players Features and ideas discussions thread'. I'm pretty sure that CCP, the DEVs, and the ISDs are avoiding PI like the plague. If they acknowledge this thread, they will no longer be able to pretend it doesn't exist...    |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
27
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:40:25 -
[60] - Quote
Alessienne Ellecon wrote:How about integration with citadels? You could launch commodities from the Command Centre to a citadel nearby (say within 5000km of the planet) load by load if you wanted to avoid an onerous POCO tax. This would be especially helpful if you're a P4 producer. I like the idea of converting POCOs into Citidels. Earlier in the discussion it was also suggested that POCOs should be capable of fitting terraforming modules to help with raw planetary resource production. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
27
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:41:27 -
[61] - Quote
MarjoMecra wrote:I would love to see something like "sim city" but for building a big PI chain on a planet. I think there's a lot of people who do. Unfortunately, none of them work at CCP...
|

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
27
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:44:51 -
[62] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Remember to design from the start with the ability to interfere with someone else's production in mind.
"Nice clean water source you have there. It would be a shame if someone polluted it."
"Nice space elevator you have there. It would be a shame if someone was to sabotage it."
Just imagine if you could produce ground units, and defensive buildings. Yes indeed, let's imagine a competitive world of militarized planetary interaction. |

Vladdy Tepes
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 23:03:01 -
[63] - Quote
Arianne Kass wrote: In my experience - sitting in Sov nullsec with very decent tax rates - about half the players I know have stopped milking their PI planets due to the sheer tedium of the PI interface.
Same here, its not even worth the time any longer |

Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
531
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 23:39:14 -
[64] - Quote
Not hating, but not enthusiastic either, here's why.
PI is already clicky intensive, and it's also cumbersome to move stuff about, now adding skills wouldn't add anything it would only make a process that is already in need of streamlining even worse.
I believe being able to move raw materials from the planet to a Citadel for tier products would make a much better experience (keep the ability to produce them on planet so players have a choice), instead add skills needed for tier products that go hand in hand with the Citadels such as an industry specialist for PI and Citadels so that Citadels are more of a place of commerce and industry, a place where things happen, a place of relevance rather then another object in our universe.
Those skills do nothing but add to an already cumbersome process. |

Puar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 00:54:05 -
[65] - Quote
I like my billions keep out the average player |

Hound Halfhand
Repo Industries
33
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 15:06:57 -
[66] - Quote
I agree with this thread 100% even though I didn't read the whole thing. PI will be a premium feature available to only Omega clones. That alone should mean it needs to get second a look. People love the idea of developing industry on planets. It should be a complete career path, not secondary income.
I also agree there needs to be a link between citadels and PI. Possibly a freight yard where you can launch it right from a customs office to a module on the Fortizars without needing to haul it in an Epithal. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
29
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 19:06:53 -
[67] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Not hating, but not enthusiastic either, here's why.
PI is already clicky intensive, and it's also cumbersome to move stuff about, now adding skills wouldn't add anything it would only make a process that is already in need of streamlining even worse.
I believe being able to move raw materials from the planet to a Citadel for tier products would make a much better experience (keep the ability to produce them on planet so players have a choice), instead add skills needed for tier products that go hand in hand with the Citadels such as an industry specialist for PI and Citadels so that Citadels are more of a place of commerce and industry, a place where things happen, a place of relevance rather then another object in our universe.
Those skills do nothing but add to an already cumbersome process. I totally agree that the the PI interface needs to be completely redone before anything else. However, there is a lot of grumbling that easier PI would drive down the profitability. I believe that this is also true. The point that I've been trying to make is that poor game mechanics should not be the driving factor in the value of PI products. By adding an entire career path of skills and structures to master, we can make PI scalable for the players who truly wish to take that path. The players who only run PI casually will need to put a little more investment into their "passive income", but will be rewarded with less clicking in order to do it. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
29
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 19:26:27 -
[68] - Quote
Hound Halfhand wrote:I agree with this thread 100% even though I didn't read the whole thing. PI will be a premium feature available to only Omega clones. That alone should mean it needs to get second a look. People love the idea of developing industry on planets. It should be a complete career path, not secondary income. I didn't know that PI will be Omega only. That's great news. Hopefly it's a sign that development on PI is coming soon!
Hound Halfhand wrote:I also agree there needs to be a link between citadels and PI. Possibly a freight yard where you can launch it right from a customs office to a module on the Fortizars without needing to haul it in an Epithal. There has been a lot of talk in this thread about the pros and cons of being able to move PI products to station without using a ship. Some say that being able to move your PI straight to market without needing to undock makes it far too easy. I'm inclined to agree with that position.
I think that the current POCO structures should be migrated over to the Citidel model. You should be able to dock in a POCO, and you should be able to transfer PI from the planet up to the POCO remotely. However, a POCO should not have a market, and the only way to get the PI out to market is to undock and move it. However, once the PI products are in the POCO, you should be able to initiate contracts for transporting it. This way, the players who do not wish to take the risk of moving their own PI can pay another player to do it for them. This will also help keep the cost of PI higher. Transporting PI should be a very lucrative endeavor. |

LUH-3417 Ormand
Gallente Distribution Manufacturing Mining
30
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 14:56:17 -
[69] - Quote
Something else I just noticed: When you "STOP PROGRAM" on an ECU, it forgets which material program it was running. It's very annoying to go back into the ECU and have no idea what was going on. Sometimes it's easy to remember, but sometimes not so much. This is an easy fix that could be taken care of in the next patch. If only someone from CCP was paying attention... |

Now Life
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2016.11.12 01:18:24 -
[70] - Quote
which may also be an improvement is corp access to launch the PI to the Poco like you can deliver corp research / build jobs when the person is not in range or have no time to play eve
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Fayyad
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 23:36:38 -
[71] - Quote
A lot of great ideas, thanks for creating the thread.
Aside from expanded/improved PI gameplay I would not mind seeing PI incorporated into the notification system. "Options" (meaning I can turn it on/off) for being notified when ECU stop extracting and Custom Office events like owner & tax changes or its under siege would be useful from the planets I operate on. |

Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 00:22:35 -
[72] - Quote
Wonderful thread.
I agree with most ideas stated here but to be more on the point,
When I started mining back at the day in order to get 100% refining you only needed refining 4 or 5 iirc and refining effi to 2 + standings. so there was no point to train some skills. then they updated mining and made those skills relevant again.
Same now with industrial command ship and drone mining, it's slower but the ability to mine decently with huge ore load and good tank is priceless for me, I always wanted drone mining.
PI for me is kinda simple, I just do it because it's a waste no to due to the easy skill requirements. I make tens of millions daily without moving a muscle or any effort. I would love to see it become a serious profession.
BUT about the "migration idea". I proposed few years\months back this system:
you can build a spaceport on your colony which take more resources then launchpad, then you can "launch" convoys from your colony to some destination on range based on your skill. those convoys are npc ships which other players can gank. so you can either risk it for gankable automated convoys or make and effort, pay tax and use a poco with launchpad. |

Fishton Muldoon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.11.22 12:29:02 -
[73] - Quote
WTB the CO window not closing randomly when Transfer is clicked, the bloody 'Still processing, please wait less than a second' popup heading for an early bath and a (more) resizable CO window.
Cash waiting. |

Valentine King
Zarnfell
13
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 16:00:18 -
[74] - Quote
Interesting discussion - even more interesting to hear through 'rumour control' that CCP are aware of players earning literally Trillions of ISK from passive incomes (was released in a statement by CCP some time ago) and are playing around with a number of options for a PI overhaul, including the idea of turning it into real-time harvesting like ores and ice........ |

Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
583
|
Posted - 2016.12.18 18:14:12 -
[75] - Quote
Valentine King wrote:Interesting discussion - even more interesting to hear through 'rumour control' that CCP are aware of players earning literally Trillions of ISK from passive incomes (was released in a statement by CCP some time ago) and are playing around with a number of options for a PI overhaul, including the idea of turning it into real-time harvesting like ores and ice........ This. I don't see any way CCP is going to make it easier to make passive income.
If CCP did improve PI quality of life, it likely means the price would drop to the point it's not worth doing. |

Rapala Armiron
Arton Yachting and Angling Club Domain Research and Mining Inst.
59
|
Posted - 2016.12.19 18:21:45 -
[76] - Quote
Nicola Romanoff wrote:Some of the points are good; some I think are too far like habitation modules. I would also like to get a few more planets although I think 36 per toon is too much, perhaps a maximum of 9 or 10.
Since they removed NPC pocos in high sec and couple with the abysmal yields in high sec I think that area needs looking at, I donGÇÖt think that in reality having POCO in high sec has produced much in the way of conflict (CCP may have figures to disprove this) but I think that both of those things has really done is kill off high sec PI.
I would like to see more skills for PG and CPU though I think that would be handy as well as templates, and clever routing of goods, also and something that has bugged me for ages is letGÇÖs say I set up a basic factory for toxic metals, I would like all subsequent factories to be toxic metals until I change it to something else.
I think you are wrong about highsec pi being dead. I own a fair number of lowsec pocos (approximately 20 or so) and a handful (maybe 3 or so) of hs ones. The highsec pocos are consistently used and outperform all of the lowsec ones combined even though the tax rates are drastically different. Its not even close.
BTW if anybody is looking for good pi rates in lowsec domain area I'm happy to provide  |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
204
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 05:39:21 -
[77] - Quote
from my viewpoint and experience with base management games i feel PI is a bit lacking in terms of base building. i mean, we use a third party structure for it (POCOs) to access our exports and we get the view of a whole planet just for adding a bunch of structures that are never seen or dont seem to have any kind of coverance regarding the planet.
i thing the main fantasy of being a "Planetary Manager" cannot be made unless there's a tie between sovereignty mechanics and planetary mechanics. i mean, planet management would have more sense in a game like this if planets were actually taken in account for territorial purposes.
for example, instead of instancing planetart colonies for players, we could have a complete mechanic of shown the planet as a 2D map for players which the territorial borders put by each colony on it, there could be a complete RTS minigame there that would define things like player to player trade or warfare, not only just putting a command center and start linking some industrial structures, instead building a fully working colony on the planet, which is managed by a player and by extension a corporation and then an alliance.
planets on NPC space wouldnt be contestable but would be for public use by players, of course, POCOs would still exist with the consequently pvp control around them and taxing, POCOs would pass from being glorified containers to a complete fleshed out structure that allows for more planetary related stuff like setting commodity trade on the planet, resource interchange between players and permits for raiding or taking over other player colonies.
now, regarding to colony to colony combat, this would also be supported by being able to make planetary bombardments from space using the old planetart bombardment ammo that was related to DUST514, the ammo could be used each cycle to bombard the target colony's structures or transport links in order to sever the connections or completely destroy the structures in order to leave open space for taking.
how this extends onto solar system sov? well, for example, in FW each planet would count for the system control, pilots could help to bombard the other faction's planetary infrastructure in order to put their own until they have a 100% control of the planets in a system, not counting non aligned industrialists that would be safe of invading for all purposes, however, they would have to pay a permit in order to mantain protection from the faction owning the system.
in Nullsec the thing is the same, instead of being based around the TCU there could be systems where several factions would be claiming colonies for them. it could be a 3v3 or a free for all wreckage for planetary control, which would ensure isk expenditures on structure defense, repairs, and mantainance, eventually with enough man power a faction would be able to take control of all the planets in a system which would then mean sovereignty over that system (of course counting the existing structures in space for this).
as for Wormhole space, im not really sure how it would workout, specially because Anoiki arent meant to be territories controlled by player's i think, they seem more of a wild expanse. however, since there are already alliances living in wormhole space, i think it makes sense that they can hold sovereignty over a wormhole by sake of planetary control over the system, they may not have sov structures but the resources to keep complete control over all the planets in their systems.
and of course there could be audacious people making raids to steal stuff from them. |

Valentine King
Zarnfell
13
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 18:07:06 -
[78] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:we could have a complete mechanic of shown the planet as a 2D map for players which the territorial borders put by each colony on it, there could be a complete RTS minigame there that would define things like player to player trade or warfare, not only just putting a command center and start linking some industrial structures, instead building a fully working colony on the planet, which is managed by a player and by extension a corporation and then an alliance.
And I can just see the CCP team now, fainting in the office at the thought of all that scripting.....
 |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
204
|
Posted - 2016.12.20 19:14:21 -
[79] - Quote
its not like im suggesting planetary landing and base building. it would certainly be more complicated than the hacking/minesweeping game that they added for exploration.
some of the old structures would be present, you still need a launchpad to send your commodities to the POCO. however, i was thinking on extra modules and mechanics in order to make the colony building more organic:
1. the command center is the basic and most important structure on a colony, if your command center gets destroyed your colony is lost basically.
2. command centers serve as the basic energy and computation nexus in a colony, however, there are new ways to expand the powergrid, energy plants are a new structure that extends the avaliable powergrid for structures at a cost of CPU on the command center, depending on the planet there could be different energy sources.
3. a datacenter is the contrary of the energy plant, its an structure that increases the CPU grid of the colony at the cost of powergrid, i dont know the aplications but it could serve as "mini command centers" that could be used to extend the connections of a colony.
4. most resources would be avaliable on the same place for players, i mean, instead of having to manage extractor heads and links you could have one or two extraction stations for each resource you need, the location would mean you have less or more of a certain resource when building there. people would be fighting for the best spots, and all resources would deplete overtime to a minimum amount that would replenish after a time. the idea is to capitalize on the missing space by allowing several resources to be located on the same territory. you know, like in a real base management game.
5. habitational complexes are a new structure that adds a new resource to colonies, Workforce, while the world of eve has several automated systems there's still a need for manpower so having colonists on the complex could give a bonus to extraction or manufacturing speed. along with offense and defense power for the colony.
6. defensive upgrades are a new type of component that can be added to planetary structures, players can invest isk into adding armor layering to structures in order to defend them from EM and Thermal weaponry, shield generators create a protection field around structures that protect them from Kinetic and Explosive weapons. you can install both on a structure but each upgrade has a powergrid or CPU cost (dont know how that works, bust still, its for gameplay purposes).
7. offensive structures are things like barracks, which are used to train military, bunkers which you know, house military for local defense. turrets for detection and larger defense, AI defense complexes deploy planetary drones that help for offense, defense or support operations.
8. the trade port is a new planetary structure that allows players to set trading orders on their colonies and on POCOs, players in space can buy or sell commodities to and from planets and bring/take the commodities from the custom office's storage. trade ports also manage trading routes, a new type of link that can be done between players for interchanging resources after setting a trading agreement at the POCO.
9. raids are a type of offensive permit given to players that is paid at the POCO with consent from the owning faction, a raid consists on a military intervention over time on a target colony in order to steal some resources and manufactured commodities from the targeted structures.
10. evictions are an offensive permit given to players at the POCO, they are more expensive but allow a player to attack another colony, extended evictions allow a player to destroy other colonies for freeing space or for potential future expansion of their own colonial territory.
i dont know what else is missing for this new system |
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