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Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.12.18 17:42:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Quote: The skill packs were a much lesser issue, and we've decided to allow people to just keep them, no strings attached.
*boggle*
And you WORK for this game? You patently do not know anything whatsoever about it. The guys who got a boodle of skillpacks have *already* made vastly more money than my original Thorax blueprint could ever have produced.
Heh, said with finess as always. Does it really matter if people make a bunch of money off of their good fortune? It's not going to happen any more. Will that topple the whole eve-conomy Baldour? Is such a big ******* deal that you have to whine about it? ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
nono
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Posted - 2003.12.18 19:01:00 -
[32]
Quote:
We've decided to deal with the issue by turning all of the BP's that agents dished out into limited run BP's, with 1 or a few runs as the limit.
The skill packs were a much lesser issue, and we've decided to allow people to just keep them, no strings attached.
I'd hope people just congratulate them on their good fortune, rather than focusing on the fact that now 'others have no chance to catch up'.
That would certainly be the case for BP's, but not for skill packs. The skill packs are not that much more profit-per-minute than mining. Skillpack wise, at most people got away with about 10 times what they should have on an occasional mission, when compared with mining, for the first day of Castor. Agents usually stiff people so bad, that it really shouldn't be much of an issue.
I guess your right Papa. Although I can't remember ever making over 500 million for an entire day of mining let alone what that works out to per minute. Check the market or the spam channel and see just what skills and tools have been selling for in the first two days not including the BP's.
The usual very vocal ones on this forum are mysteriously very quiet all of a sudden don't you think. Reminds me of the last patch with implants. New skills hitting the market in very low volumes only to be bought up and marked up in the extreme.
Truth is you can do something about making BP's limited or one use but skills that have been sold and used you can do nothing besides roll it out. So you will do nothing and the lucky ones keep thier gains.
Yeah I congratulate them on thier good fortune. And I sympathize with CCP on thier coming losses.
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PhD Drax
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Posted - 2003.12.18 22:01:00 -
[33]
This game is all about luck, finding bugs in the system and exploit them... and I didn't even had time to do a single mission during the firts two days so I the looser in this lottery, maybe I lose my accounts to...
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.18 22:31:00 -
[34]
Ok lets look at all the issues and put aside biases one way or the other. The question is does a roll back need to happen or not?
BP's ok fixed soon - papa smurf is taking care of that
agents/standings not fixed but will be soon only power gamers will be able to do anything with agents unless you can do 400+ missions just to keep you standing per week
Mining low grade ores are still able to be gotten by groups of people. Mining rare ores takes sooooo many people that even realistically the mega corps could never accept the losses to make it worth while. Even if you have 30 or 40 battleships and cruisers in one belt you will still loose ships due to the NPC's spawning right on you and killing a ship or two before they can be take out. Haulers will die instantly.............
tech 2 odd way to implement to say the least (changing every rule we have all been working with to date), all producers that spent ages learning skills will now have to get agents to: research, get parts, and beg mega corps for new minerals...... I myself have a second account that has been training non stop to be the best producer and refiner. I can't run two accounts at the same time this much to be of any use. I am talking about trying to run missions while my fighter is engaged in a region war. It will be hard but I will take the challenge to deal with this one as much as possible, I might curse a lot at the computer while doing it but it is a lot more workable than other things.
NPC's ok now this is the biggest problem for the entire patch. NPC spawns are causing huge belt lag on the client side causing ships to be lost without even knowing what happened. The lag issue is better than the past but with this addition it just went sour. NPC spawn amounts are way overboard.
People talk about being more realistic but forget that pirates are normally not going to have the shear resources a mega corp will have. There is no way NPC pirates would be able to have that many battleships and cruisers out in the low sec zones (not talking about edge of space 0.0 systems but .2 to .1 areas). Also how would they ever be able to produce these ships in such mass quantity to replace them every 10 minutes or less. SO realism is a false argument. Pirates would be hit and run factors in belts, not never ending magical beings.
NPC ships are also way too uber to be even close to anything they should have released at this point in the progression of EVE. The expectation and realistic approach to the new pirates would be slowly having them appear in deep deep deep space around extremely rare ores. Then move them close to regular space over time. While the player base is catching up in technology to deal with this new threat to deep space mining.
Engaging the pirates with battleships or cruisers by themselves is going to lead to loss of ships (no one can argue about this statement unless you have no idea what you are talking about). Combinations of the two will cause loss of ships due to the spawn occurrence of the NPC's to begin with.
The three sides are: 1) Roll back because of the known bug issues (that eve players in total have lost trillions to) and give a blanket fix not favoring anyone. Good points: No one has an advantage everyone starts fresh, combined with fixes. Majority of players will be happy because the economy will not tumble due to mega and other high end minerals sky rocketing in price. Bad points: its a step back for CCP, bad publicity for basically admitting they really messed up.
2) Don't roll back but give all those that can prove they lost ships/items. Good points: players will receive back at least the ships they lost to bugs and not leave the game. Bad points: not everyone will be able to produce logs or evidence to prove it was due to the NPC bug.
3) Don't roll back and keep telling people to just deal with it Good points NONE except the selfish self serving that don't understand this will in the next few weeks trickle down to them and then they will leave the game because it snowballs and hurts them realllllly bad at that point. Bad points Extreme player loss of interest and loss of players (possibly my two accounts if that even slightly concerns anyone at CCP)
So looking at the issues after stepping back to see the whole picture how could you really argue against a roll back. The player base would not consider this egg on your face CCP. More than likely you would receive praise and thanks from many in the player community. For the people that cannot see the light take a step back and think about the game as a whole, not just your little chunk of the pie. Don't be a self serving player and realize that without the rest of the community we would not be able to get much of anything done in this game. DO NOT let this snow |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.18 22:32:00 -
[35]
DO NOT let this snowball gather force and kill EVE.
So would you care to spend the time Papa Smurf or another CCP person and have a rational discussion. I for one would not like to see a cookie cutter response.
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Dontius Tarris
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Posted - 2003.12.19 00:09:00 -
[36]
My gutt tells me CCP is thinking time will solve the problems. They prob noticed all the people playing since the patch and arnt concered with the unhappy responces of the paying customer. The snowball is comming down the hill and I dont see them evan making a attempt to stop it. Im watching the market ships are selling 2x what the insurance paying out, megga is selling at 30k each and no one is really out in 0.0 anymore. The game is dieing and I think CCP pride is the weapon. U know what makes me angry more then anything: Its the fact they relize that the npc in some area's were way to powerful and made the statment We warned you so we arnt going to replace the ships you lost. I hope you had insurance..... CCP is biting the hand's that feed them. Laters!
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.12.19 05:42:00 -
[37]
Quote: ROLL BACK TO 1254 PLZ
/EMOTE ROLLS BACK TO MY COMPUTER AND TRIES TO STOP LAUGHING
During the time since the patch release I've been spending more time in EVE than I did during the last 2 weeks before the patch.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Czar Marcus
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Posted - 2003.12.19 05:54:00 -
[38]
Quote: I can't understand why people are complaining so much. Yes there are a lot of changes. But these changes have made the game more realistic. You can't expect to be good at everything.
You contradict yourself. First you say this is a game, then you say realistic in the same sentence. A game is not supposed to be realistic, that is why it is fun. Add the realism and it begins to suck. Why would I want to work for a hardass boss, to come home and spend the rest of my night working for another hardass boss?
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Qual
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Posted - 2003.12.19 09:58:00 -
[39]
The only way to roll back the skills would be to do a Roll-Back. Dont want that.
I paid some lucky blokes 30M+ for each of my new science skills. That was over half my money in game.
But im A HAPPY MAN! If they do a roll back and these skills become even more rare, will I have to pay 100M+? Thanks, but no thanks. Thats just another evil.
So YOU didn't get lucky... Your problem. DOnt take it out on the rest of us.
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Junko Willsso
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Posted - 2003.12.19 11:11:00 -
[40]
"People talk about being more realistic but forget that pirates are normally not going to have the shear resources a mega corp will have."
Er, they own stations dont they ?
Therefore they can easily afford BShips
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Estios
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Posted - 2003.12.19 11:31:00 -
[41]
Patch = GREAT
Game was begginning to bore me and do my head in before patch. All you people whining, I dont get you ? Roll back to 1254 ? WTF - in 1254:
Agent missions meant nothing any longer after full set of implants.
Mining was SO easy it was silly. I could mine in 0.0 alone all day long.
NPC hunting involved sitting at 50km and chaining them for hours on end until the screen was littered with cans.
PVP was NOT skilled particulary as pretty much everyone used a Battleship and sat in lag camps at JIP's. If you happened to get caught at a JIP you stood no chance and died before your screen loaded.
Which part of the above are you so keen to roll back to ??
Mining is now a chore and requires team work.
NPC Hunting is now dangerous.
PVP can now be fun and frigs have a role etc
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Feral
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Posted - 2003.12.19 12:47:00 -
[42]
Let see: "I cant fit a mwd and all my uber guns anymore as the mwd requirements have been incresed" -- Stick a couple of rcu1's in your low slots. Works for me.
"Travel has been slowed down" -- really? I'm finding it faster than before. There again, I have a mwd fitted. See above.
"Its impossible to maintain your corp ratings with the decay unless you do 400+ missions a week." -- try reading the patch notes. Ratings only decay if you dont do any agent work.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2003.12.19 13:56:00 -
[43]
Quote: please do not ramble on fourms. you think they take rolling back lightly, thats prolly the thing they should do LEAST. no, that in fact should not even be an option at all right now.
I remember a rollback from the days before Armageddon. Believe me, you do not really want a rollback.
But yes, the roll-out was not good, too much changed - smaller patches would do better in the future. ____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Beldaws
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Posted - 2003.12.19 14:06:00 -
[44]
I think the patch has made the game much better.
I do think that the afterburner/mwd problem needs to be tweeked a bit but I like the concept in general.
I also think that the NPC rats need to be toned down a little too. At this point they are overkill for someone flying a tech 1 ship.
Once tech 2 ships are available then increase the NPC difficulity.
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.12.19 15:14:00 -
[45]
Quote: Patch = GREAT
Game was begginning to bore me and do my head in before patch. All you people whining, I dont get you ? Roll back to 1254 ? WTF - in 1254:
Agent missions meant nothing any longer after full set of implants.
Mining was SO easy it was silly. I could mine in 0.0 alone all day long.
NPC hunting involved sitting at 50km and chaining them for hours on end until the screen was littered with cans.
PVP was NOT skilled particulary as pretty much everyone used a Battleship and sat in lag camps at JIP's. If you happened to get caught at a JIP you stood no chance and died before your screen loaded.
Which part of the above are you so keen to roll back to ??
Mining is now a chore and requires team work.
NPC Hunting is now dangerous.
PVP can now be fun and frigs have a role etc
Spot on...
Tal
What goes around comes around...
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vixit
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Posted - 2003.12.19 17:42:00 -
[46]
No Rollback.. This is the greatest patch of all...
and for the people who lost a ship, bad luck they warned about the heavier fire pirates can give and they told to be carefull out there
This is great! and yes i mine a lot and this makes it more a speciality than for just everyone tot do
CU in EvE
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EvilDoomer
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Posted - 2003.12.19 17:44:00 -
[47]
NO WAY!!!! This patch has alot of nice stuff. Bugs yes, Awesome yes. Alot of changes YES!!! Re-learning yes! But in a rating from 1 to 10 !
9.5 from me. I love most all of the changes. CCP keep up the great work. {fix the bugs asap } but Awesome overall work.!! Thanks EvilDoomer
Chicago Mobsters
** Ghost Fleet Pilot **
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Usharin Silverberg
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Posted - 2003.12.19 17:57:00 -
[48]
Intoccabile, if you haven't worked it out already - NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
New patch best thing that ever happened top eve. So its got bugs...and? CCP will sort them out, things will settle and the whining will die down (hang on, this is the eveonline forum...hmmm...scratch that last bit, what was I thinking)
Do what everyone else is doing, experiment, enjoy learning all over again - life is to be experienced, so is eve!
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Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.19 19:48:00 -
[49]
You people that do not undestand this patch is going to have long reaching problems may want to rethink your love of castor.
OK first loss of massive amounts of ships will drive rare minerals through the roof. Have fun trying to get any mega in the next month or two. If you do it will be somewhere near 100k isk per each. My corp will not be selling our mega that we used to sell. Now it has become a very guarded commodity. We are partly a manufacturing corp so selling any mega is bad business.
The people that like Castor will realize too late that: the problems those of us have that are the beginning of the chain in all manufacturing and rare ore mining will visit you soon. We are having a hell of a time out there and its costing a lot of money and ships. If you do something to loose you ship we would be happy to sell you one for double or tripple the price prior castor. But you will have to wait, the line is long and our corp members will be at the front of that line.
So get it yet, you haven't even seen the problems yet, but you will.
So only fix will be roll back and then patch with a fixed castor patch. This will restabilize the economy. If the massive amounts of ship losses to NPC spawning bugs had not happened (yes bugs they admitted to the distrobution problems) mega would not have shot up sooooo high. The other part that CCP cannot completely fix will be the bp's making people sooo uch money its insane. These things have changed hands so many times and there is litterally so many out there now that they will never be able to track all the money back down and reverse it. SO the people that realized the exploit and used it right away will still be so rich its crazy.
So before you discount a roll back look at the entire global set of problems and what they will cause. Look past your own nose and see what is really happening. |
Deacon Iscariut
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Posted - 2003.12.19 20:54:00 -
[50]
lets see.........
I've had to go from mining .3 and .2 to the much more fun areas such as .5 Now there's no omber in any of these .5 and above systems. From 5 miner II's on the Thorax to 3 Lost 2 cruisers and now i find the price I have to pay for them has doubled on some.(such as the Moa)
Gee....what fun
I killed Kenny, You Bastard
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dutchfreak
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Posted - 2003.12.20 17:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: dutchfreak on 20/12/2003 17:38:16 Ok i've been playing soem more now this week, and yes, things got though... Also because i started a new Char a few weeks ago, and my defence isnt as good as it used to be (had to go from mining .3 to .6 systems) But that was mostly my own fault. As for the speeds... geez my indy is slow now... that was really a bummer. I didnt read all the reactions at this forum yet, but the once who like me, mined .3 or less secure systems and now cant do i anymore need to shut up in my opinion, sure i dont like it i have to go back to mining Veldspar for now, but hell, with some of the right training (i want to use my ogres once more) ill adapt and survive it. we do need some tuning though. rats may be a little TOO though, but i havent tried my ogres yet
as for Deacon Iscariut, you cant use 5 miner II on a thorax? how bad are your skills? i can easily use 5 of em with my thor, and see that my cap runs steady...
On the whole, Castor aint that bad, exept for the traveling speeds, and agents (which i dont use) oh i have to add here, i havent got any 10MN ab's on yet, furthermore i think its no more than fair i had to go back to a .6 system. Come on.. mining .4 with 4 Scout drones? thats toooo easy guys!
What im trying to say is, yes its a hard start again, yes we do need tuning. But EvE is still a great game to play! ... but thats just my humble opinion
*waiting to get flamed*
------------------------ Remember, my child: Without innocence the cross is only iron, hope is only an illusion & Ocean Soul's nothing but a name...
The Child bless thee & keep thee forever ------------------------ |
Rasmus
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Posted - 2003.12.20 23:19:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Rasmus on 20/12/2003 23:36:28 Edited by: Rasmus on 20/12/2003 23:22:38
Dalman said: Quote:
/EMOTE ROLLS BACK TO MY COMPUTER AND TRIES TO STOP LAUGHING
During the time since the patch release I've been spending more time in EVE than I did during the last 2 weeks before the patch.
Yes, we all have Dalman. It takes twice as long to mine, twice as long to sell the minerals, twice as long to get them to the the buy order, twice as long to find an affordable ship to replace the one you lose when your full coverage insurance sticks it to you.... wake up Dal....not everyone wants to be in a big megacorp such as yourself. Once you guys lose enough of those Apoc's that it really starts hurting, you'll be over in "I hate Castor thread" as well. The PR for eve said that solo play was one of my options. That's what I paid for and I spent my REAL time training to do just that. Adapt is one thing, start over and relearning a different game is another. serious serious tuning is needed here, or people such as yourself are going to get really bored as more and more people drop their accounts. Have fun producing T2 by yourself!
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Sarena Sparrow
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Posted - 2003.12.21 09:26:00 -
[53]
patch sux. the game is more of a headache than fun. Logging in doesnt even sound fun anymore. I just keep checking the boards hoping that the devs will come to their senses and post something about changing the rat spawn problem(they have admitted it is a mistake so dont even try to flame me for that), MWD nerf(self explanatory), Agent nerf (slower standings increase), mining nerf(miners use cap now, impossible to mine in 0.0), etc. This really blows. I just hope there is another company out there that will pick up where Eve left off.
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Qual
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Posted - 2003.12.23 11:24:00 -
[54]
"OK first loss of massive amounts of ships will drive rare minerals through the roof. Have fun trying to get any mega in the next month or two. If you do it will be somewhere near 100k isk per each. My corp will not be selling our mega that we used to sell. Now it has become a very guarded commodity. We are partly a manufacturing corp so selling any mega is bad business."
Prices will go down. The Mega is out there. In large numbers. You just have to find it...
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Papa Cerb
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Posted - 2003.12.23 13:58:00 -
[55]
Are You all participating in some "Uber whiner contest"? Pull Your head out of ass and start to play or go play The Sims. Castor is the best thing in EVE since I am playing this game. before Castor Eve was like sunday walk in the park - stable 10M per hour without any risk. Before patch i mined all for scorp in one day alone in 0.0. That was awful. Now it only gets interesting to play this game and not to leave.
I personally want to thank TomB for new NPC pirates and PapaSmurf for new agent system!
Oh and more for whiners - my m8es mined 35k megacyte in last 2 days in 0.0, just a 4 people gang. Learn to play and stop whine! ______________________________________________________________________ Do I look like pirate? |
Sarena Sparrow
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Posted - 2003.12.23 14:42:00 -
[56]
Quote: Are You all participating in some "Uber whiner contest"? Pull Your head out of ass and start to play or go play The Sims. Castor is the best thing in EVE since I am playing this game. before Castor Eve was like sunday walk in the park - stable 10M per hour without any risk. Before patch i mined all for scorp in one day alone in 0.0. That was awful. Now it only gets interesting to play this game and not to leave.
I personally want to thank TomB for new NPC pirates and PapaSmurf for new agent system!
Oh and more for whiners - my m8es mined 35k megacyte in last 2 days in 0.0, just a 4 people gang. Learn to play and stop whine!
were all UBER impressed...NOT.
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Dashriprock
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Posted - 2003.12.28 04:55:00 -
[57]
Because its impossible to deep core mine and npc demand has gone dry miners will have no isk or ore.
when miners run dry then manafacturing goes bey bey.
the only people who will actually be able to survive this patch are pirates and that spells the end of eve online
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Dashriprock
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Posted - 2003.12.28 05:09:00 -
[58]
Also we have to have some sense of realizm on npc pirates. At this point guristas have a bigger armada than all the empires combine. Which is just perposterous
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GFLTorque
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Posted - 2003.12.28 14:35:00 -
[59]
Quote:
New patch best thing that ever happened top eve.
Actually the little yellow button on your HUD that you click to autopilot was the best patch imo. Call me an old-timer but frankly /cmd autopilot on having to be typed into the chat channel all the time was a hassle.
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Sidyous
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Posted - 2003.12.28 19:10:00 -
[60]
All I got to say so far is that risk and reward don't match up as there are 0.0 systems where (since the patch) the rarest ore is kernite and 20 NPC pirates spawn ranging from 8k to 85k (last count) and the loot does not even make up for it most of it is basic from what I found and to me it doesn't make sense that pirates would protect such low grade ores with such a well armed fleet. -----------------------------------------------
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