You want to think outside the box, but you want to use the most commonly flown frigate in all of eve?

How about start with not a rifter... your already making progress.

fits submitted on battleclinic.

I generally keep my experimentation to cheap ships, for obvious reasons :) The test server is a fantastic place to get practice using unconventional setups.

Just remember, things are very different on TQ! Your "experimental" fit will likely get killed by a gang and the killmail laughed at. So long as you can deal with that eventuality, go nuts and have fun.

-Ed

this is where you went wrong, there are many viable rifter fits. bc usually has the worst of the worst you could imagine

I like to experiment with my rifters, sometimes put MSE instead of web [...] Everybody knows rifters are plated and usually active repped so they load ammo and neut accordingly to exploit resists holes and make repping impossible.

I am also a fan of unexpected setups, together with unexpected ships (read: max gank and huge shield buffer Celestis :D) but the success you'll have with this kind of stuff is limited.

Hi all,

Common rifter fit consists of guns, point, web, ab, plate, dc and gyro. That is what is recommended to newbies and oldies and any differences from this template are generally frown upon (at least that's my impression after reading discussions on fits submitted on battleclinic).

I like to experiment with my rifters, sometimes put MSE instead of web, sometimes I go with full gank like 3 x gyro and rigs for more gank / boosting my resists/shield regen. Reasoning for lack of web is: I am fast enough to catch'em as long as they are not able to warp out, for ganking fit: put max dmg on them and hope regen/resist will hold long enough to kill them.

Everybody knows rifters are plated and usually active repped so they load ammo and neut accordingly to exploit resists holes and make repping impossible.

Isn't it good to have a fit with a little "WTF?" factor? I find it really enjoyable to play with different fits and I am newbie enough to be surprised by some fits and I like to take my "weird" fits for a test drive and I wonder is it just a phase and sooner or later I will end up with the same fits as everobody else and only my skills can make a difference or experimenting on your own is a way to go?

Just to make it clear, I don't ask for your permission or approval (my money, my game - that's my motto). I just wanted to know what more experienced people think.

Second clarification: I am talking about rifters but I think question applies to any ship in Eve so don't grasp on name of ship.

The best way to come up with new (or "experimental") fits is by going out there and finding real needs.

For example, earlier today I found 2 Armegeddons, an Oracle and a Maelstrom bashing a Customs Office in lowsec. Now, I had to come up with a ship that would be able to deal with them (with links on my side). The result was fairly successful - they managed to run due to ECM but I would have been able to kill at least the Oracle and one of the Armageddons if that hadn't happened.

A quick glance at battleclinic shows that the OP is losing a fair number of rifters, so odds are he's doing something wrong, and that something is this:

OP, fly cookie cutter ships for a while. It's not a question of what works and what doesn't, it's an issue with you, and your lack of understanding how to properly PVP. The issue here isn't so much that cookie cutter fits are the best way to fly a ship (often they're not), but without a solid understanding of the various aspects of pvp, you'll never do well with oddly fit ships, even if the idea behind the fit is valid. Fly with some people who know how to pvp, learn from them, and THEN go off and try odd ship fits.

Well, I am losing a lot of ships mostly because I did not follow mine/mission/be-afraid-of-lowsec newbie routine. For example I played hide and seek for a week or two with Tuskers in Hevrice and oops, here you have my win/lose ratio. If you check fits on lost ships you will see that most of them was pretty standard (at least I think they were).

But whatever, I have 4 kills and 30 loses so yes I am losing ships. And of course I make mistakes and of course I don't know every aspect of a pvp. This is my first toon and it is 3 months old, what would you expect? Yes I know: two days old toons are killing titans with their bare hands in null and make lemon juice by squeezing suns, blah blah blah...

My point is that fit everybody uses and everybody expects when seeing rifter at their d-scan or overview is a disadvantage for somebody like me who lack in skills and experience. That is why I dedicated "weird" fits as my ISK sink, just to see what is possible and what can work and in what situations. Like few days ago I made Vengeance pilot go "wtf?" when my rifter with two MSEs just would not die instantly. Of course I lost a ship in that fight but I had my share of fun and gained some experience.

From responses to this thread I can see that along the lines "common fit is good because it's common" there are people like me who just try things out for pure lolz or just out of curiosity so I think I have my answer.

Thanks to everybody who wrote their thoughts or at least read my post.

Cheers :)

Since most people on these forums only PvP in EFT, Schmata I would suggest joining our Public Channel "The Tuskers Public Channel" and showing your fits there. We (along with all our guests, most of them red) will be able to give you actual critique rather than simply telling it's a failfit because it deviates from the norm. Also you might pick up a fair few things there - we discuss PvP pretty much exclusively and in great detail.

In the meantime I suggest ignoring those who say you need a great deal of experience before you should use fits that differ from the norm. Experimenting with different fits in different situations will give you much more experience with different modules, different flying styles than simply flying the same fit over and over again. Also, no serious PvP corp actually pays attention to your K:D ratio.

Reg: your Rifter fit..

Honest, informational and exactly what I would expect as a review of my fit. Thanks a lot.

That was used in a duel after I simply asked on local who will help me to test my fit.

Now I fly different fit that goes with 147 dps but has minimal tank, so it is all about gank, basically just opposite idea to this double shielded weirdo. Will it work? Don't know, gonna test it either in a arranged duel or during lowsec roam. I suspect fast death from bigger ships/more skilled/more experienced opponents but, once again, pure lolz are worth it

The problem with this line of thought is that it will take you YEARS to learn how to pvp, assuming you ever learn at all.

I don't agree with this. Just because its unconventional doesn't mean that he won't learn anything from it (win or lose). I think this ( http://www.fadedgiant.net/html/edison_thomas_alva_quotes.htm ) is an appropriate page of quotes about this conversation.

Here's a few:
- "There's a better way to do it. Find it."
- "Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless."
- "I have not failed 700 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work."

-Liang

Now I see why my double MSE fit is weak and probably I won't use it any time soon, if ever.

That being said I doubt that just asking for reliable newbie fit and get it from vets would prevented me from reinventing this wheel. Putting something together in EveHQ, something that seems ok and than log in and take it into space. ISKies lost on failfits don't matter because I don't play SpaceTycoon and it is not about earning money, even imaginary ones.

Even failfits are source of knowledge about game. It is not about that you can explain to me why shield regen is bad or sth diferent, it is about me seeing this failure in action and about seeing what is happening to a ship and to his tank when something bigger or just better punches a lot of oomph into piece of crap "reinvented" by me.

Here's the thing: You even demonstrated this point by saying that you were going to go full gank on your next rifter. You knew that the dual MSE was a bad fit, but you didn't know WHY. There may well be a dual MSE fit that's actually viable, and you'd never know, because you looked at this one specific fit, found that it sucked, and moved on to a vastly different fit, never once seeing if there was a fit that was almost like yours, but not quite, that worked. The dual MSE jaguar for example is a rather nice ship, if you're looking for something tankier. But when you have the skills/isk to fly one, you won't, because you'll think back to how poorly the dual MSE rifter did, assume that this was because the premise behind the ship was flawed, and ignore other similar options based on that faulty belief.

It's also worth noting that you're shooting yourself in the foot by picking a ship and trying different possible roles into which to shoehorn it, rather than picking a role, and then a ship to match it.

Jeez, it is like you would say: "you painted a rock with gold paint, you failed to sell it so next time you will have actual gold nugget you will remember previous fake-gold failure and you won't even try to sell it."

I am a newbie but for f**k sake not an idiot.

To be honest currently I have 3 rifters fitted and it is not that failure with shields put me in completely opposite camp of full gank. I just wanted to see how much dps I can squeeze out of my skills and modules. After all it is not like die from being curious, last time I checked it was a game :)

As for the being a newbie but not being an idiot comment, you actually remind me a lot of this comic:
http://xkcd.com/675/

You're looking to revolutionize something that you don't even properly understand, and the odds of you ever managing to do so are somewhere between slim and none. Learn how to pvp, THEN change the way people do it by coming up with kickass fits that differ from the norm.

It's also worth noting that you're shooting yourself in the foot by picking a ship and trying different possible roles into which to shoehorn it, rather than picking a role, and then a ship to match it.

Everything was an experimental fit at one point, your fits may become the next flavour-of-the-month.

Just never know.

If everyone thought like that can you imagine how boring EVE would be.

If OP is interested, I've had a good deal of success with ecm burst rifters. Maybe not so much "wtf" factor, but lots of tears from opposing frigate/af/inty pilots!

Fits should be a result of a strategy and not just EFT numbers. Coming up with a workable strategy only happens if you have a good understanding of PVP mechanics, the different ship types and targets you intend to run into. So experimental fits born out of a simple desire to be "different" are doomed to fail if not backed by knowledge and experience. Understanding how the majority of your targets fit&fly and then making a counter to that CAN work and while that can still be an out of the box/experimental fit the reasoning and logic behind it will be very different.

Lots of people come up with stupid things, but if it works it's not stupid. The trick is to realise what is stupid and what isn't, preferably before you put it into practise.