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Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.07.09 05:39:28 - [1] - Quote So is it better to have a Buffer fit or high Passive Shield regen ? I am using a Navy Drake running lvl 3 missions, but whenever I try lvl 4s I have GTFO. I have a 140 Passive regen with my current fit and around 30k EHP. So should I build up my resist better or just keep training for a bigger amount of Shield HP ?
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 2656	Posted - 2016.07.09 05:43:36 - [2] - Quote Post your fit?
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.07.09 06:26:11 - [3] - Quote 8 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launchers 2 T2 Large Shield Extenders 1 T2 Shield recharger 1 10 MN Afterburner 1 Dread Guristas Thermal Dissispation Amp 1 T2 EM Ward Amp 2 T2 Shield Power Relay 2 T2 Ballistic Control Systems 3 T2 Shield Purgers I change out resist as needed. 46k EHP
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 2656	Posted - 2016.07.09 07:35:16 - [4] - Quote As a general rule, shield rechargers are crap. You'd get much more (20% or so) tank with an invuln there. Your real problem is probably just not killing things fast enough. Heavy missiles without a damage bonus -- even with 8 launchers -- don't push that much damage. It looks like that fit caps at 241 with max skills, which is under half what I'd look for in a basic L4 boat. There used to be a rule of thumb that said L4s needed tank + damage to be about 1000; while the NDrake can probably do L4s slowly it will never really do well. You could try HAMs I suppose but at the end of the day it's just not an impressive boat.
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.07.09 07:36:45 - [5] - Quote Ok, thanks for the reply and I will start saving up for a BS then
Zakks Caldari Provisions Caldari State 46	Posted - 2016.07.09 10:06:30 - [6] - Quote I had the same issue flying a Drake. Find a partner to run missions with, or cash in on the 90-day multiple training deal from CCP and make your own I think today is the last day, it is on your launcher. Train for a Raven, or better yet train for the Tengu as it will allow you much more PvE content than just missions. Here was my passive fit. Swap resists and drones as needed. Sometimes I would use a web instead of the meta shield extender too. Keep moving to reduce incoming damage. [Drake, LML Passive] Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Hornet II x5
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 169	Posted - 2016.07.09 14:31:12 - [7] - Quote Aesgeir Blackwolf wrote: Ok, thanks for the reply and I will start saving up for a BS then To answer your original question a buffer tank is for PVP. It is made to absorb a high amount of damage for a short period of time. A passive or active tank is made to absorb a relatively low amount of damage over a long period of time. I have a noob with 1.5 mil sp and flies a gila cruiser. Its about a 320 mil isk fit has a 560 dps rat spec tank and 425ish dps with his skills. He can perma run 3 hardeners and an AB without a cap booster. Max skills its 640 dps tank and spank. I use a rattlesnake personally for most ratting. Though it will take a while to skill into. A raven with low skills is only a little better than a drake. Its a decent improvement with higher skills. I dont recall having any issues when i was noob running level 4s in a raven except "worlds apart" i think it was. It was slow as hell though. The big question i have for you, that no one else bothered to ask( that i saw) is are you managing rat aggro? As in are you saving the spawn triggers for last and taking out already spawned groups in an order that gets you the least amount of aggro? This is vital for mission running so you dont get overwhelmed with unnecessary DPS. You can use this site to check missions. what damage to do/tank, the spawns, their triggers, anything that may be special about the mission( such as the angel extravaganza bonus room requires a certain tag to enter) . Though the mission index seems to be down right now due to looking like a coding issue.
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1303	Posted - 2016.07.09 14:44:37 - [8] - Quote Aesgeir Blackwolf wrote: Ok, thanks for the reply and I will start saving up for a BS then One piece of advice for when you fly your first battleship, do not overestimate it. I lost my first battleship in a "Duo of Death" mission which is one of the easiest ones. The Drake used to work with the regen fit but they nerfed the Drake 2 weeks after the first release and a couple of times more after. My advice, buffer tank and keep your distance. Your target calling should be small to large, always and forever. That target calling is one of the first things you have to keep in mind, there no exceptions, even in pvp. You will have some trouble in the "Vengeance" mission(s) with that named NPC with the high bounty tag on him. You can do it ina Drake but you need to shoot the small stuff and the other battleship first, then you need to get really close to the named one before you start shooting, it helps a lot. Guristas / Angel Extravaganza. You will need to loot every mission to collect a Guristas and Angel Diamond tag. They do not drop in the missions but in storyline ones. If you get offered a "Enemies Abound 1/5" do yourself a favor, decline them. They will tank your Gallente standing. I still cannot enter Gallente highsec without getting hunted by the Federation Navy. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.07.09 16:36:46 - [9] - Quote I do appreciate everyone taking there time on helping me with tips and advice.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 909	Posted - 2016.07.09 16:44:01 - [10] - Quote elitatwo wrote: My advice, buffer tank and keep your distance. Your target calling should be small to large, always and forever. That target calling is one of the first things you have to keep in mind, there no exceptions, even in pvp. You will have some trouble in the "Vengeance" mission(s) with that named NPC with the high bounty tag on him. You can do it ina Drake but you need to shoot the small stuff and the other battleship first, then you need to get really close to the named one before you start shooting, it helps a lot. Guristas / Angel Extravaganza. You will need to loot every mission to collect a Guristas and Angel Diamond tag. They do not drop in the missions but in storyline ones. If you get offered a "Enemies Abound 1/5" do yourself a favor, decline them. They will tank your Gallente standing. I still cannot enter Gallente highsec without getting hunted by the Federation Navy. So much so wrong here I do not even know for sure where to start so I will simply go in order you posted them. Buffer tank For a high SP player who has serious mission experience and who is blitzing them I can see this. As a general rule and for low SP players active tanks for missions will always be a better option. Target calling or target preference as some call it. Again this depends on so many things there is no one way to do it. When running level 4's in a dessie or an assault frigate the small stuff has to die first with priority to anything that has ewar of any kind. On the other hand with a BS or a Marauder in the same mission you have to turn that target priority upside down since you will likely be able to tank an eniter pocket full of the small stuff it is the bigger ships that can hurt you so they have to die first. The angels and guristas extravaganza missions. The tags needed for the bonus room can and often do drop from NP killed in the mission. Not that running a story line to get them is a bad idea, however because the loot fairy has never been kind to you does not mean that it does not happen. Going back to the OP. SP has a huge affect on your ability to run missions. I can and often do run level 4's in an assault frigate for the challenge but then the character I do that with has more than 100 million skill points and is all applicable skills to level 5 for the ships and fits I use. If you were to try it you would likely die very quickly.. Level 4's in a BC will always be a challenge and to be honest with you it would be better to stick with level 3's for now. The ISK and LP earned per gaming session will be higher and you will not have the risks of ship associated with running 4's in a Drake. For the future I suggest that you set your sights on a Cal Navy Raven for your first level 4 ship, find a fit that you think you want to try and then continue to run level 3's until you can afford it.
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.07.09 17:05:04 - [11] - Quote Donnachadh could you give me an example for the Raven fit ? I was thinking of going with the NS instead because of the Shield bonuses.
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1303	Posted - 2016.07.09 20:04:15 - [12] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: ... On the other hand with a BS or a Marauder in the same mission you have to turn that target priority upside down since you will likely be able to tank an eniter pocket full of the small stuff it is the bigger ships that can hurt you so they have to die first.. What? Your best advice is to buy a 4 gazillion isk boat to sit still and press FONE all day? Sorry that you have so few skillpoints, I only has 200 million (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) of those. There no flaw in my assessment and the next bigger boat would be the Raven, not the Navy Raven. I get that some of you like sitting still somewhere and pressing FONE all day is a fun thing to do but flying a boat is a tad more rewarding and teaches you stuff in a fun way. You are trying to teach someone with very little experience that it is very good to avoid all kinds of ewar and expecting all combat situations to be same "save" way. With that experience he will end up in null somewhere and be very surprised to see his 4 gazillion boat explode when he sits in a Sanctum, surrounded by 12 black ops and 33 proteus. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Noah Reese 10	Posted - 2016.07.09 22:10:35 - [13] - Quote The drake just won't do, yes it can do lvl 4 but the lack of dps and focus on tank (thus wasting too many slots) means it'll struggle and you'd do a lot better speed running lvl 3. There'll always be people who say it'll work "fine" but it just really doesn't. as stated above get yourself the bigger brother, Raven. If you have some cash to spend you can choose between the Navy Raven and the Navy Scorp, in this case I'd opt for the Navy Scorp as it's less of a fickle beast and easier to use. Just remember that for any missile ship to work well you need rigor/flare rigs and/or guidance modules, if a fit lacks those it's not a good fit.
Elinara Yamamoto Latex Entosis Insignificant Others 43	Posted - 2016.07.10 02:48:59 - [14] - Quote For this specific ship and purpose, I would active tank it. Different ships do different things, one of the few PvE ships I passive tank is my Gila.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 170	Posted - 2016.07.10 03:45:26 - [15] - Quote Quote: My advice, buffer tank and keep your distance. Your target calling should be small to large, always and forever. That target calling is one of the first things you have to keep in mind, there no exceptions, even in pvp. Thats terrible advice dont tell newbies that. First you dont buffer tank for pve unless your running a speed/kite tank Then the buffer is for the random times a hit lands. A buffer tank doesnt recover fast enough passively(shield) to tank waves of ships. If your blitzing with good skills and know what your doing then yeah you can get away with it. Second, that is not how target selection should go in pve. In pve, you ALWAYS shoot the trigger ship last, It doesnt matter if its a frig or a battleship. And while its usually a battleship it is sometimes a smaller ship. In fact i think one or two of the waves in extravaganza is a frig trigger in the first room. Angels i think it was. Otherwise your pecking order is as follows( this is assuming your using a BC/BS and not blitzing): 1) Anything scramming webbing or target jamming you. Scrams first 99% of the time, then jams, then webs. 2) Neuts( though i dont think their are any of these in level 4s), these may have to be first in certain situations in others you just tank them . 3) All other EWAR 4) Battlecruisers( except triggers). Battlecruisers have paper thin tank but do decent dps, You can knock them out quick and remove some of your DPS load. ( If you can kill them fast enough without drones put drones on frigates from here on out unless trigger is a frigate then leave that one) 5) Cruisers for basically the same reason as battlecruisers. 6) Elite ships or battleships( i usually go by what class the trigger is in and do it last) You will want to tag team with your drones on these. 7) anything left on the field 8) Trigger 9) Rinse and repeat. In PVP: its situational but usually something like: 1) Dictors and HICs 2) Points/tackle OR 3) Logi ( this is sometimes switched with the first two depending on situation) 4) Ewar 5) DPS These are both general guidelines. However it really is situational, mostly in pvp. For example today, my fleet was popping DPS when both logi and HICs were still on the field. The situation on the field made killing DPS more of a priority than the 2 HICS or the few t1 logis. Quote: For the future I suggest that you set your sights on a Cal Navy Raven for your first level 4 ship, find a fit that you think you want to try and then continue to run level 3's until you can afford it. I would disagree with this mostly because i wouldnt even bother with a navy raven. The rattlesnake cost less, tanks better, has better dps and dps application, the drone bonuses literally allow you to tank an entire room just using the drones( especially true with faction drones which have higher HP). Its only drawback is the duel train( which isnt that bad) in racial ships and weapons( you should be training drones up regardless of race anyway). A few years ago when a rattlesnake was like 800 million and navy raven was still around 400-500 mil I would of probably said go ahead and go with the raven ( though i really dislike ravens) , but now i would go from drake to a standard raven to a rattlesnake later on when i have decent drone skills and both caldari and gallente BS to 3 at least.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 911	Posted - 2016.07.10 21:20:33 - [16] - Quote elitatwo wrote: What? Your best advice is to buy a 4 gazillion isk boat to sit still and press FONE all day? Sorry that you have so few skillpoints, I only has 200 million (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) of those. There no flaw in my assessment and the next bigger boat would be the Raven, not the Navy Raven. When or where did I say they had to buy a 4 gazillion ISK ship? That is your assumption because it fits your purpose what ever that purpose is. All I stated was that target priority will change depending on the situation and I used myself and running level 4's in an assault frigate or dessie versus running them in a BS or marauder as an example. And yes there is a major flaw in your assessment. You stated that small ships are first and always will be first on the target priority list and that is not true. Target priority will be affected by the mission, the ship, it's fit and the players skill point level as well as their knowledge of missions in general, the mission they are currently running inn specifics and their preferred method of running missions. Even for the same player / character combination target priority for a torp fit Golem will be different than that for a sniper fit rattlesnake or Domi. The target priority for either of them will be different than for blitzing the same mission in a Machariel. And the target priority for running the same missions in an assault frigate or a dessie will be different than any of the others. elitatwo wrote: I get that some of you like sitting still somewhere and pressing FONE all day is a fun thing to do but flying a boat is a tad more rewarding and teaches you stuff in a fun way. Again this is your assumption, I never stated how to run missions. Why don't you spend the next few days and run level 4 missions in an assault frigate or a dessie and then come back and we can discuss this press F1 and ignore it theory. If you did I am sure you would come to appreciate that there is something very satisfying about warping into a pocket, hitting bastion and F1 and watching stuff explode. Then again maybe the idea of running level 4 missions in an assault frigate is more challenge that you are willing to accept, but you should try it. Setting that aside there are many valid reasons to use bastion that do not include sitting still and pressing F1, just a couple that come to mind are dealing with little things like tracking disruption or even for a bit of extra tank if you get caught by an gank squad. Another that you would understand and appreciate if you spent some serious time with new players as they transition to level 4's is called full pocket agro. There are several missions where fulll pocket agro can challenge a 3 slot marauder tank even with bastion running. And these are likely to be the missions that the new players have the most trouble with because they do not understand the triggers, or because the mission has timed waves that they cannot clear fast enough you know because low tank, low dps etc. And so they end up overwhelmed and facing full pocket agro in a ship / fit that simply cannot handle it. I know for many in this game the normal route is to tell the to simply hit the quit mission button but that is not my style. It is far better for them to warp in and out as needed while you work as a team to thin it out to the point where they can finish it themselves and sometimes to do this you need to be able to pop bastion and press F1. elitatwo wrote: You are trying to teach someone with very little experience that it is very good to avoid all kinds of ewar and expecting all combat situations to be same "save" way. Again I have no idea what your problem is or why you are confused. Where did I tell them they should avoid ewar? With many BS fits and I am talking about T1 or in the case you mention a faction BS they can safely ignore ALL ewar EXCEPT those with energy neutralizers and even then with some ships and fits and in some missions you can ignore even that because the ewar simply does not matter. Setting all of that aside the only place I specifically mentioned ewar was in combination with running missions in an assault frigate or a dessie and there my only comment was the small stuff needs to die first. Since the vast majority of the ewar that can cause problems in level 4 missions is associated with the NPC frigates killing them first is not ignoring ewar it is in fact dealing with it in a violent fashion and watching it explode into irrelevance. elitatwo wrote: With that experience he will end up in null somewhere and be very surprised to see his 4 gazillion boat explode when he sits in a Sanctum, surrounded by 12 black ops and 33 proteus. No he will not because the OP likely has a brain cell or two active and will realize that the advice they are being given now is specific to the situation they face now, that being that they are stepping up into level 4 missions for the first time. However if we want to take this to your level and carry it into nul sec sites and the OP follows your advice of SMALLEST SHIPS FIRST ALWAYS AND FOREVER they will likely explode in a cloud of space dust because they choose the wrong targets to shoot first. You see because even in nul sec it all comes down to adapting your target priority to the situation you face instead of blindly believing that smallest first is ALWAYS best.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 911	Posted - 2016.07.10 21:22:26 - [17] - Quote Elinara Yamamoto wrote: For this specific ship and purpose, I would active tank it. Different ships do different things, one of the few PvE ships I passive tank is my Gila. Not to argue with the Gila but the Rattlesnake can offer a monster passive tank as well, should you desire to go that route.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 911	Posted - 2016.07.10 21:33:18 - [18] - Quote Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I would disagree with this mostly because i wouldnt even bother with a navy raven. The rattlesnake cost less, tanks better, has better dps and dps application, the drone bonuses literally allow you to tank an entire room just using the drones( especially true with faction drones which have higher HP). Its only drawback is the duel train( which isnt that bad) in racial ships and weapons( you should be training drones up regardless of race anyway). For a person / character that has been in the game longer I would not argue the Rattle it is a favorite of mine as well. However in this specific case when you look at the situation as a whole the Rattle is definitely not the best option. First reason is that ALL skills trained to fly a Raven or Navy Raven are skills they will need for the Rattle anyway and short stopping into the Raven or Navy Raven gets them into a solid level 4 ship considerably faster. Second reason is the additional training need to make a Rattle work well. With the need fto train the battleship skill for both Caldari and Gallente combined with the need for a solid sweet of drones skill, preferably the ability to use all T2 drones that Rattle is better suited as a longer term goal with the Raven / Navy Raven being a good intermediate step.
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 436	Posted - 2016.07.11 00:40:59 - [19] - Quote buy a gila actually but a rattlesnake. The reason why doing so is smart is because most high end missioning ships etc get their dps from very long to train ship skills and or maximum support skills, meaning that you need a close to all V character to do well with them, the role bonus on gurista hulls makes that trivial as all your damage comes from there. A all t1 fit rattlesnake takes less time to train in then a t2 fit drake and still does amazing dps with an amazing tank, so go for those. And they also are cheap as ****. throw in 2 faction ogres or whatever damage type you need and you are set
elitatwo Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance 1306	Posted - 2016.07.11 09:29:44 - [20] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: ... Setting all of that aside the only place I specifically mentioned ewar was in combination with running missions in an assault frigate or a dessie and there my only comment was the small stuff needs to die first. Since the vast majority of the ewar that can cause problems in level 4 missions is associated with the NPC frigates killing them first is not ignoring ewar it is in fact dealing with it in a violent fashion and watching it explode into irrelevance. That was still marauder specific. The reason I said, he should shoot the smaller ships first, is that when he flies a Drake or a battleship, he doesn't want to get webbed or pointed, both are bad always. I did a "Silence the Informant" in a Harpy once, thank god I had null s with me. Anyhow I was assuming that one of his corpmates or someone he talked to will have pointed him to the eve-survival page that all unexperienced pilot should use, sometimes even experienced ones. Triggers can be bad, especially in w-space but only a few level 4 missions have those. The first 5 rooms of the "Angel Extravaganza" for example has battleship triggers and up until room 5, triggering one wave is not too terrible. A "Blockade" on the other hand is completely different wheelhouse. The first waves (of 5) have a battleship trigger, except for the last wave where the trigger is a destroyer. A "The Assault (Sansha)" have time triggers but they are all spawn at range and slowboating to the gate (accelerate without a propulsion mode) will keep newer pilots alive while they shoot the closest targets. I don't know about the SOE missions because they want me to shoot the Amarr and I cannot bring myself to do that. Can't argue about the Rattlesnake since she and the Nightmare are my beloved level 4 ships. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 177	Posted - 2016.07.11 12:04:58 - [21] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I would disagree with this mostly because i wouldnt even bother with a navy raven. The rattlesnake cost less, tanks better, has better dps and dps application, the drone bonuses literally allow you to tank an entire room just using the drones( especially true with faction drones which have higher HP). Its only drawback is the duel train( which isnt that bad) in racial ships and weapons( you should be training drones up regardless of race anyway). For a person / character that has been in the game longer I would not argue the Rattle it is a favorite of mine as well. However in this specific case when you look at the situation as a whole the Rattle is definitely not the best option. First reason is that ALL skills trained to fly a Raven or Navy Raven are skills they will need for the Rattle anyway and short stopping into the Raven or Navy Raven gets them into a solid level 4 ship considerably faster. Second reason is the additional training need to make a Rattle work well. With the need fto train the battleship skill for both Caldari and Gallente combined with the need for a solid sweet of drones skill, preferably the ability to use all T2 drones that Rattle is better suited as a longer term goal with the Raven / Navy Raven being a good intermediate step. I did mention skilling into a regular raven first. I think its fine for a stop into a better ship and for your first battleship. I just didnt agree with going to the navy raven, as its more expensive and isnt as good as the rattlesnake. Instead i would stay in the regular raven a little longer( a month or two should be all you need depending on how many drone skills you trained prior and during raven training) then go into a rattlesnake. My newbie im training into a rattlesnake gets about half the dps and 1/3 of the tank as my main who is nearly max skilled in sub caps. What i normally do when i want to skill a new character into a ship is create a t2 fitted version in eft at all level 5s. I then work on the skills eft tells me i need to make that fit work with all t2. Once i can do an all t2 version of that ship, i switch to my actual build which is faction/deadspace for some or all of the ship. I find it works well and keeps my training focused on the ship and fit i want to fly next. Then when im not training for a new ship/fit ill work on random combat skills that will improve combat performance.
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 436	Posted - 2016.07.11 12:19:40 - [22] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I would disagree with this mostly because i wouldnt even bother with a navy raven. The rattlesnake cost less, tanks better, has better dps and dps application, the drone bonuses literally allow you to tank an entire room just using the drones( especially true with faction drones which have higher HP). Its only drawback is the duel train( which isnt that bad) in racial ships and weapons( you should be training drones up regardless of race anyway). For a person / character that has been in the game longer I would not argue the Rattle it is a favorite of mine as well. However in this specific case when you look at the situation as a whole the Rattle is definitely not the best option. First reason is that ALL skills trained to fly a Raven or Navy Raven are skills they will need for the Rattle anyway and short stopping into the Raven or Navy Raven gets them into a solid level 4 ship considerably faster. Second reason is the additional training need to make a Rattle work well. With the need fto train the battleship skill for both Caldari and Gallente combined with the need for a solid sweet of drones skill, preferably the ability to use all T2 drones that Rattle is better suited as a longer term goal with the Raven / Navy Raven being a good intermediate step. That is just not true, a all 0 char gets 600dps from a rattler, which is close to what a all V raven does. You dont need skills for the rattler, as long as you can use meta rhmls, t2 bcus and ddas and t1 heavy drones you will do very good dps. A rattler is tanky enough not to die even with scrub skill.
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.07.11 16:51:14 - [23] - Quote I think I will just keep training skills for another month or 2 before stepping into a BS. I have listened to all the arguments for what ship to use and not to use. I think once my skills are better the Rattlesnake seems to be the way to go. So by the time i get to using it I should have enough Isk to put some better resist mods and T2 Rigs of some sort on it. I don't want to just buy my first expensive ship and loose it all because of a silly mistake. Thanks again for all the info and tips Aesgeir
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 179	Posted - 2016.07.11 20:45:48 - [24] - Quote Aesgeir Blackwolf wrote: I think I will just keep training skills for another month or 2 before stepping into a BS. I have listened to all the arguments for what ship to use and not to use. I think once my skills are better the Rattlesnake seems to be the way to go. So by the time i get to using it I should have enough Isk to put some better resist mods and T2 Rigs of some sort on it. I don't want to just buy my first expensive ship and loose it all because of a silly mistake. Thanks again for all the info and tips Aesgeir I would recommend going with a raven first. A rattlesnake is not a ship you want to lose to rats because you are inexperienced and/or lack the skills to get you out of a situation. A t2 fitted snake will run around 800 mil with t2 rigs, with t1 rigs it will run you around 500-550 mil. If you bling it out expect 1-3 billion depending on bling( assuming you dont get crazy and start using officer mods). The snake really shines when you uses deadspace and faction as the hull bonuses greatly enhance the added effects of the mods. The raven you can get completely fitted for less than half the cost of a basic snake. probably pushing around 225 mil-240 mil with t1 rigs. If you lose it, its not as big of a deal. Also level 4s will earn you a decently better income. Your killing higher bounty rats and the missions pay a little more as well. So you can earn money faster in a raven than a drake. And you are getting use to level 4s in a ship that has less tank and spank and is cheaper. If you can handle level 4s in a raven, you will have an easy time in a snake with decent skills for it.
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 436	Posted - 2016.07.11 22:53:22 - [25] - Quote The only dfference is the hullprice, why buy a raven ever if by spending 250mil more you get a vastly superior ship in every regard? The buy a raven first thing is stupid, its actually easier to lose a raven then a rattler because the rattler isnt a piloting heavy ship like the mach or even the barghest, even with scrub skills it puts out enourmous dps and tanks a shiton. The raven tanks nothing nor is its dps even close to that of a rattler. This isnt pvp where you have to actually be good to do stuff, its lvl 4s, watch a video of your mission and if you die you probably are braindead. Lastly, the ravens damage comes from missile skills and the bs skill, so due to the role bonus the rattlesnake is vastly superior for newer players. A all 0 (i.e no skills at all, so just the base numbers) rattler does aprox. the same damage as a all V cruise raven, twice as much with actual skills, all while tanking a lot more. So, just buy a rattlesnake, get a pith x type x-large booster (cause its like 80mil and with 1 mission specific hardener you tank 1k) and fit the rest however you like. People always tell you that you need max bs skill to fly pirate bs and so on, you dont, if you can sit in the ship and it does more dps/ank then your previous one use it instead (for pve, for pvp you ought to have at least all IV).
Aesgeir Blackwolf Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.07.12 04:04:10 - [26] - Quote I am going to be buying a Rattlesnake just because it is only 400 something mill compared to the Navy Scorp which is 600 something right now. I found a good lucky drop today running a Guristas Scout Outpost so I made 400 mill off of that. I have bought a few Resist mods to put on the Rattler. So my main thing is then for now what type of Rigs should I put on it ? By the end of the Month I will have all my Missile skills at lvl 4s and Heavy Missiles at 5. My Drone skills are only 3 but I will work on them and Shields next month for sure before anything else.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 180	Posted - 2016.07.12 13:00:18 - [27] - Quote Aesgeir Blackwolf wrote: I am going to be buying a Rattlesnake just because it is only 400 something mill compared to the Navy Scorp which is 600 something right now. I found a good lucky drop today running a Guristas Scout Outpost so I made 400 mill off of that. I have bought a few Resist mods to put on the Rattler. So my main thing is then for now what type of Rigs should I put on it ? By the end of the Month I will have all my Missile skills at lvl 4s and Heavy Missiles at 5. My Drone skills are only 3 but I will work on them and Shields next month for sure before anything else. You have several options when it comes to rigs depending and it depends both on your fit, how you want to play and your skill levels.examples: 1) I use t2 shield purgers which is for a passive tank. But i run sites and anoms exclusively in 0.0 solo. I also hate having to turn shield boosters on and off constantly and carrying cap boosters around( rather carry a few thousand more missiles) 2) Shield extender rigs and shield resist rigs are used for active tanks when the tank is more important than dps output( usually lower skill pilots). I dont recommend resist rigs for missions because you have to switch damage resist often, so you wont get the full effect of a resist rig many times. Note: shield rigs increase sig radius. On a BS this really isnt important. On a smaller kiting/speed tank ship such as a VNI this would be a big no no. 3) Drone rigs: Various drone rigs can be used depending on, again, your fit and use. Drone rigs have the drawback of using more CPU which can making fitting tight. To me, drone rigs are the least useful but i also do not use sentry drones. i use heavies instead as they have better damage application and tank far better. 4) Missile rigs: Various missile rigs you can use depending on your fit and preference. Missile rigs are used for more dps and better damage application of missiles and to increase the range of short range high damage missiles. I use cruise missiles as i dont like chasing rats around a deadspace to kill them and using torps for example requires you to be in their face. Which usually means they are applying full damage to you. missile rigs also suck more cpu which can make fitting harder. 5) Other rig options usually reserved for tight fit pvp ships or low skilled pve players are rigs that increase your PG and CPU, If you active tank, cap control circuit rigs may also be an option. The best advice i can give you is use one of the two ship fitting programs( EFT or pyfa both have threads in this sub forum) and learn how to fit ships yourself. You will have a far better understanding of the game, ship capabilities and weaknesses, among a lot of other useful knowledge you gain from learning to fit your own ships. This is extremely useful if you ever pvp. Much of the advice you get here on actual fits will be from eft/forum warriors competing to give the most efficient fit even though they rarely do the most efficient task at making isk( thus throwing the whole efficiency thing out the window). I learned early on that its better to create my own fits based on a rough idea of how others fit the same ship. I just customize the fits for what i am doing, how much isk i want to spend, and my playstyle( which when it comes to pve is quite relaxed and lazy). The truth is there are as many right ways to fit a ship as there are wrong ways to fit one. Just like in my profession, carpentry, there are just as many right ways to build a house as there are wrong ones.
The Bigpuns Touring New Eden Haven. 205	Posted - 2016.07.12 16:37:53 - [28] - Quote Couple of points from above that I just want to argue.... 2) Shield extender rigs are for buffer tanks, not active. And a thermal resist rig will be useful against all rats except angels, and even then, it might save you some damage in AE bonus room. 3) Heavy drones do more paper damage, but lose about a third of it to travel time. Sentries, while having to maybe trade off damage type with range and application, can be useful at all ranges. And tank doesn't matter when it's sitting right next to you to be recalled at will when being shot at.
Kitty Bear Harbingers of Chaos Inc Brute Force Solutions 1552	Posted - 2016.07.14 13:28:53 - [29] - Quote The Bigpuns wrote: Couple of points from above that I just want to argue.... 2) Shield extender rigs are for buffer tanks, not active. And a thermal resist rig will be useful against all rats except angels, and even then, it might save you some damage in AE bonus room. 3) Heavy drones do more paper damage, but lose about a third of it to travel time. Sentries, while having to maybe trade off damage type with range and application, can be useful at all ranges. And tank doesn't matter when it's sitting right next to you to be recalled at will when being shot at. re 3) Sentry Creep.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 196	Posted - 2016.07.14 15:13:09 - [30] - Quote The Bigpuns wrote: Couple of points from above that I just want to argue.... 2) Shield extender rigs are for buffer tanks, not active. And a thermal resist rig will be useful against all rats except angels, and even then, it might save you some damage in AE bonus room. 3) Heavy drones do more paper damage, but lose about a third of it to travel time. Sentries, while having to maybe trade off damage type with range and application, can be useful at all ranges. And tank doesn't matter when it's sitting right next to you to be recalled at will when being shot at. 2) You can use the operational solidifer and cap safeguard rigs too. And yes extender rigs can be used for active tank. I prefer extenders and using the already high EHP of a BS as a buffer, so i can cycle my booster less and use it to just top off. If i was active tanking something smaller i would use one of the ones i mentioned possibly. I rather use cap for other things and i absolutely hate using cap charges in pve. If i was going to resist rig for mission i would agree with you on thermal. However, im against using resist rigs in general except to plug a resist hole on a few select pvp ships/fit. I use a passive fit snake by the way, as i like doing things the easy way( and im terrible about remembering to turn things off such as boosters) 3)Heavy drones do more paper damage and have far superior tracking than sentries. Tracking on T2 caldari: vespa 0.78, Wasp 0.642, Warden 0.012. A wasp has only slight worse tracking than a vespa. A warden tracks like a sloth. My Wasps can 2 volley an orbiting frig, a warden would likely have to be traded out for something smaller and that is unbonused. Sentries are for sniping. They are made to deploy blap targets from a long range and pick up and GTFO quickly. That is not practical in deadspace areas with accel gates since the gate sticks you where it wants you which can be 10-20 KM from the rats in some cases and rarely more than 60 km. They require tracking mods to be even half decent at short range to apply damage. And they are literally sitting ducks. So when they do get targeted you have to reel them in and relaunch them. Granted reeling in is pretty much instant. But having to watch them, reel them in, relaunch, and tell them to attack again takes maybe 5-10 seconds. They require you to take aggro and keep aggro which means you have to be able to tank the room/waves. It also means you have to keep aggro. And even using weapon systems, you cant keep aggro, they will still switch targets some. Heavy drones have better dps and better tracking. meaning overall they apply DPS better. I dont need to switch drones out ever. My null snake has 4 wasps, 5 med ECM drones and 5 warriors. The latter two are specifically in case i get tackled by a player. I kill everything with the wasp. I can literally warp in, lock something, send drones after it, Hardeners on, and go make a sandwich, go to the bathroom, watch tv, write my memoirs, etc. I dont have to baby sit them. I dont need tracking mods or to switch to mediums or lights for anything. I can literally get away with half the tank i would need using sentries. So my lows are filled with damage mods and i even have some room in some cases for drone speed mods in the mid if i want. When it comes to real eve application, heavies are better for pve. And pvp really depends on how your using the ship they are on and what type of ship you expect to be fighting.

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