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Criminal flagging... what a JOKE!! LOL

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Garrack Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2007.03.07 04:44:00 - [1] So we were out mining some omber this evening. Some guy comes along and starts telling us that its someone else's omber and we need to leave, yadda yadda. So thus starts this pretty impressive ballet... - we eject ore for our hauler to grab - he grabs it, pops it into his own can right next to us - he keeps bouncing into the haulers and miners - etc. Good trick. :) So anyway he's criminally flagged so we can whack him now, right? Ha, yeah... and then he docks, grabs the Raven or whatever and comes back out to blow us all to smithereens. :) (no we didnt fall for it, but still) So, basically the whole criminal flag thing seems somewhat pointles... has anyone used this effectively against ore thieves and the like? --- Singing: "I ain't got no siggy..."
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.07 04:46:00 - [2] yes - join a non-npc corp. if someone steals from your can, your entire corp may whack him.
Bigoleed	Posted - 2007.03.07 04:46:00 - [3] Criminals shouldn't be able to dock or eject from their ships while flagged. Maybe just dock - but this baiting stuff blows.
Samirol Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.07 04:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Bigoleed Criminals shouldn't be able to dock or eject from their ships while flagged. Maybe just dock - but this baiting stuff blows. not as badly as pre-flagging. this was the carebear's idea ya know http://www.iknowderek.com/
Thews Mortaza Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.03.07 05:03:00 - [5] Oh, no! You mean you're being PHYSICALLY PREVENTED from having your own trained security response force to deal with surprise ore relocation and redistrabution? No, no you're not. (Sig) Your momma so fat ... when I tried to scoop her to my cargo hold, she don't fit !
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.03.07 05:11:00 - [6] I like the system, it makes hunting macros fun and profitable. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day
Garrack Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2007.03.07 05:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Thews Mortaza Oh, no! You mean you're being PHYSICALLY PREVENTED from having your own trained security response force to deal with surprise ore relocation and redistrabution? No, no you're not. erm... what? lol There's obviously a way to deal with this situation, my point is that merely it's not really any better frmo before the whole flagging thing, so it's kinda amusing. --- Singing: "I ain't got no siggy..."
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.07 05:22:00 - [8] Yeah you shouldn't be allowed to dock or at least change ships until the crim flag is gone. RR. CEO Venture Research and Resources. VRR Homepage
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.07 06:53:00 - [9] This is horrible. Horrible. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along?
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.07 07:15:00 - [10] First: Dont jetcan mine, EVER! The only time jetcan mining is fesable is if you have a hauler on standby that picks upp the ore as fast as you drop it. Second: Ore is whoever takes it, some people will claim otherwise and will try to enforce this... wich is their right, if they manage to drive you off then they are the ones that take it. Thirdly, if you want to use the flagging system you have to be 1% smarter than the other guy, dont have the miner or hauler drop the can, let a combat ship place the can, next cloak him at oprimal range for his guns from the can, let the person get into a bad position, decloak the combat ship, blow the anoying person to smitherines, move to a new position and engage cloak again. Once the perp comes back you are again well hidden and if he is stupid enough to engage the miner or hauler then concord will assist you with taking apart his raven. Most of the people who do what you describe are not looking too closelly as they are underestimating you and thus you should get to see some of them go by by. Naturally if your miner/hauler char is named very similarly and has a very similar pic the chances of a mistaken identity increases tenfold. In short my point here is that you should never get mad, you should never get upset or do somthing rash. Take a step back, take ten breaths and then figure out how to use his method against him, its usually not very hard.

Ghan Tylous Caldari The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.07 08:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Fester Addams First: Dont jetcan mine, EVER! The only time jetcan mining is fesable is if you have a hauler on standby that picks upp the ore as fast as you drop it. Second: Ore is whoever takes it, some people will claim otherwise and will try to enforce this... wich is their right, if they manage to drive you off then they are the ones that take it. Thirdly, if you want to use the flagging system you have to be 1% smarter than the other guy, dont have the miner or hauler drop the can, let a combat ship place the can, next cloak him at oprimal range for his guns from the can, let the person get into a bad position, decloak the combat ship, blow the anoying person to smitherines, move to a new position and engage cloak again. Once the perp comes back you are again well hidden and if he is stupid enough to engage the miner or hauler then concord will assist you with taking apart his raven. Most of the people who do what you describe are not looking too closelly as they are underestimating you and thus you should get to see some of them go by by. Naturally if your miner/hauler char is named very similarly and has a very similar pic the chances of a mistaken identity increases tenfold. In short my point here is that you should never get mad, you should never get upset or do somthing rash. Take a step back, take ten breaths and then figure out how to use his method against him, its usually not very hard. Read the OPs post again. He said "we were mining" so he had a hauler buddy. But yeah, it shouldn't be possible to dock or change ships once flagged. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Samirol Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.07 08:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Ghan Tylous Originally by: Fester Addams First: Dont jetcan mine, EVER! The only time jetcan mining is fesable is if you have a hauler on standby that picks upp the ore as fast as you drop it. Second: Ore is whoever takes it, some people will claim otherwise and will try to enforce this... wich is their right, if they manage to drive you off then they are the ones that take it. Thirdly, if you want to use the flagging system you have to be 1% smarter than the other guy, dont have the miner or hauler drop the can, let a combat ship place the can, next cloak him at oprimal range for his guns from the can, let the person get into a bad position, decloak the combat ship, blow the anoying person to smitherines, move to a new position and engage cloak again. Once the perp comes back you are again well hidden and if he is stupid enough to engage the miner or hauler then concord will assist you with taking apart his raven. Most of the people who do what you describe are not looking too closelly as they are underestimating you and thus you should get to see some of them go by by. Naturally if your miner/hauler char is named very similarly and has a very similar pic the chances of a mistaken identity increases tenfold. In short my point here is that you should never get mad, you should never get upset or do somthing rash. Take a step back, take ten breaths and then figure out how to use his method against him, its usually not very hard. Read the OPs post again. He said "we were mining" so he had a hauler buddy. But yeah, it shouldn't be possible to dock or change ships once flagged. if i am pirating in low sec, there isnt a reason why i shouldnt be able to dock in my interceptor, get my battleship, and go fight outside the station while flagged. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=486081
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.07 09:02:00 - [13] Get your own battleships stored in a station within the system. When he come back with his raven, destroy it. Problem solved. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Ghan Tylous Caldari The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.07 09:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Samirol if i am pirating in low sec, there isnt a reason why i shouldnt be able to dock in my interceptor, get my battleship, and go fight outside the station while flagged. Well if you want to pirate and the penalty for it would that you can't dock, not my problem, its yours I just stated my opinion. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Jarjar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.03.07 11:08:00 - [15] Fit warp scramblers on one of the mining ships and have reinforcements standing by? "In Communist China ISK buys YOU!!" - random bio
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.07 11:26:00 - [16] Every time a carebear whines due to some more intelligent and vindictive person causing them discomfort and aggrivation, an angel gets it's wings. Please, think of the angels. Everyone is having a stupid contest, and you're in first place! FIX RECON PROBES
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.07 12:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Detrol on 07/03/2007 11:58:59 Originally by: Bigoleed Criminals shouldn't be able to dock or eject from their ships while flagged. Maybe just dock - but this baiting stuff blows. You clearly haven't thought this through. Criminals? Define criminals.... someone with negative security rating or just someone who is criminally flagged? And even then, you do realise that if the hauler or his corp fights back that they do become criminally flagged? So they can't dock and change ships either. How is this gonna help them? Also baiting only works when you fall for it. He's getting more frustrated than you if you don't fall for his bait.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.07 12:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Roemy Schneider yes - join a non-npc corp. if someone steals from your can, your entire corp may whack him. I am almost sure it require they are in gang with you when the ore is stolen and part of your corp to get the right to fire without CONCORD intervention. If he bas bumping your ships you can try a harassement petition. It is a bit hard to know what the reply to a similar petition will be (the bad abit of CCP not to give precedent). Bumping is classed as harassement or not depending on a lot of factor, included if the bumper is in a NPC corp or not. As you had aggro from the theft probably the GM will class the bumping as "irrilevan", but it not a given.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.07 12:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Fester Addams First: Dont jetcan mine, EVER! The only time jetcan mining is fesable is if you have a hauler on standby that picks upp the ore as fast as you drop it. They were not jetcan mining, they were jettin fot the hauler, but the thief was bumping the hauler away. Originally by: Fester Addams Second: Ore is whoever takes it, some people will claim otherwise and will try to enforce this... wich is their right, if they manage to drive you off then they are the ones that take it. Thirdly, if you want to use the flagging system you have to be 1% smarter than the other guy, dont have the miner or hauler drop the can, let a combat ship place the can, next cloak him at oprimal range for his guns from the can, let the person get into a bad position, decloak the combat ship, blow the anoying person to smitherines, move to a new position and engage cloak again. Once the perp comes back you are again well hidden and if he is stupid enough to engage the miner or hauler then concord will assist you with taking apart his raven. Most of the people who do what you describe are not looking too closelly as they are underestimating you and thus you should get to see some of them go by by. Good suggestion.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 12:20:00 - [20] Covert ops ships, stealth bombers work well for this problem OP. It also helps if you have a BS in system just to ** him off. You can also reverse bait his arse....Have two haulers, one named slightly diffrent from the other. @nd hauler stays in station. When you spring your trap all haulers and miners dock. He goes to get a big ship to shoot you, the 2nd hauler that has not been in the belt...comes out to collect the ore and junk. With luck he fires at that hauler...HELLOOOOO Concord!!! Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate** or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.

Anderi Bourdieu Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.03.07 13:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Roemy Schneider yes - join a non-npc corp. if someone steals from your can, your entire corp may whack him. I am almost sure it require they are in gang with you when the ore is stolen and part of your corp to get the right to fire without CONCORD intervention. READ ________________________________________________ Captain Anderi Bourdieu - Hadean Drive Yards
Garrack Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2007.03.07 14:04:00 - [22] Edited by: Garrack on 07/03/2007 14:03:39 Ok, first, I'm not whining. Sheesh. I said it was a clever tactic, and I even told the guy doing it as much. I find the interworkings of the complex game mechanics and how people get around them to be a fascinating topic. This is merely a discussion of that. Some more clarification (though I do see some people picked it up)... 1. We weren't jetcan mining, we were ejecting ore into the can only long enough for the hauler to pick it up. 2. The person in question was bouncing the hauler out of the way and moving ore to his own can the second we popped a can out. 3. He then would also cleverly name the cans things like "Mining is not allowed here, get out." Funny. Annoying, but funny. The fact is we didn't anticpate it and all of my combat ships were a good distance away. I was perusing the market to see if I could put together something quickly, but just didn't find the right combo of stuff. Next time, we'll be ready. In my opinion, if you're in low-sec, all bets are off, but the truth is were he in my alliance's space there's pretty much no way in hell he'd get away with something like this and we would have destroyed him on sight... the trick here is he's just using the game mechanics of Empire space to fit his purposes, and doing a nice job with it too. And yeah, I think the Empire space mechanics are a little flawed. Clearly they are intended to make it so that miners can defend themselves in some reasonable way from ore thiefs, but in the end the result is that they'll lose just as badly as before the new criminal flagging rule was put in place. Again, this is not a whine, it's a discussion of mechanics. At which point, you almost might as well just put it back to the way it was... then if someone takes your ore and you want to attack them, ok, fair enough, but you obviously are gonna pay for that decision. --- Singing: "I ain't got no siggy..."
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.07 14:19:00 - [23] People should learn how that is a profitable situation. Get a miner ship mining.. and a pair corp mate cloaked very close with gangk battleships... the rest you can discover by yourself. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Sir Erighan Caldari Blue Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:04:00 - [24] ThereÆs absolutely no reason why you shouldnÆt jet-can mine. If youÆre mining in a system that has 100+ pilots, then yeah, maybe itÆs not a good idea. I constantly have 7-10 cans floating in space and have never been robbed by an ore thief. Sure, it may be luck, but itÆs also because of common sense. And if I do get robbed, so be it. IÆll mine again in a different system and let the cycle continue. ItÆs also a good idea to keep a PvP ship in the system your mining in for those rare occasions you do get robbed.
Santa Claw Federation of Synthetic Persons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Garrack And yeah, I think the Empire space mechanics are a little flawed. Clearly they are intended to make it so that miners can defend themselves in some reasonable way from ore thiefs, but in the end the result is that they'll lose just as badly as before the new criminal flagging rule was put in place. Again, this is not a whine, it's a discussion of mechanics. The game mechanic works fine. Jetcan flagging gives you the option to defend yourself. If you or your corporation arent`t able to defend yourself than that your problem. Nobody stops your from protecting the minner with 2-3 BS.
Corvinus Drax	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:18:00 - [26] Could you just take a Giant Secure Can with you in the hauler to the belt and drop the ore into that instead of jettisoning cans from the miner? Of course you would need to anchor it and set a password, but then the transfer of ore to the hauler should be completely safe. Of course, they can still try to shoot the can or you and your hauler, but then Concord will provide you with a nice fireworks display.
Trask Kilraen The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:19:00 - [27] The answer to this one seems obvious... If you are criminally flagged, then your own cans are fair game. That'd stop the can flippers cold.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Trask Kilraen The answer to this one seems obvious... If you are criminally flagged, then your own cans are fair game. That'd stop the can flippers cold. Ohh, I LIKE that idea.... stealing from a thief is not stealing... it's LIBERATING! ;)
Joop The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Sir Erighan ThereÆs absolutely no reason why you shouldnÆt jet-can mine. If youÆre mining in a system that has 100+ pilots, then yeah, maybe itÆs not a good idea. I constantly have 7-10 cans floating in space and have never been robbed by an ore thief. Sure, it may be luck, but itÆs also because of common sense. And if I do get robbed, so be it. IÆll mine again in a different system and let the cycle continue. ItÆs also a good idea to keep a PvP ship in the system your mining in for those rare occasions you do get robbed. Thx for the info. Will go to my locater agent and ask him to find you
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.03.07 15:34:00 - [30] I find it ironic that the title of this thread deals with the "joke" that is criminal flagging, when the OP never actually took advantage of nor was disadvantaged by criminal flagging. He merely is complaining that he might have been. There's a lot of that kind of "it could possibly happen so therefore we'll just act as if it did" going around these days. Bring security with you, join a player corp, simply don't jettison till the guy gets bored and goes away, move belts. There's a ton of things you can do to prevent situations like what might have happened. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO



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