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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.03.08 15:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 08/03/2007 15:24:36
I was in 0.0 flying around in a ship with the salvage tackle I rigs fitted salvaging all the rats that people were killing. Out there people cant be bother to waste time salvaging or looting their wrecks unless they might drop officer loot so you can basically salvage non stop out there without ever shooting a shot and most of them are battleships that drop a TON of salvage mats or battle cruisers that drop nearly as much.
Rats drop loot much more often than mission spawns so if you realy want to get salvage fast fly to 0.0.
I believe in 20 minutes i had enough materials to build 2 rigs. Battleships drop alot of parts and salvage rigs mean you rarely fail to get components (salvage attempt failure is NOT the same thing, you alwayse get to retry. The rigs reduce the chance of a success that fails to find anthing).
You'll hear all sorts of people claiming you can make more money just ratting and give that as a reason for rigs to be expensive but the simple truth is that alot of the time people are already ratting so the only things floating around are wrecks. Instead of wasting time doing nothing you can do as i did and fly around salvaging.
Unfortunatly i'm not selling any rigs for a while, their going into high class pvp ships for a fleet at the present moment. I was thinking 10-12 mill would be a good price to sell them at as the market is quite saturated with rigs with a price between 20-30 mill.
Oh and i'm sure everyone is aware but the drop tables for salvage was recently expanded, more factions are dropping more of the parts so its much easier to get what you need. Contaminated nanite fluid used to be next to impossible for me to get as sansha rats were very rare near me but since they were added to the sansha faction building armor rigs has been no issue.
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 15:45:00 -
[32]
I read you entire post about t2 and t1 etc and i really don't see the difference between having 1 ship have t1 and the person with more isk having t2. it's just another step and it makes sense.
rigs allow ppl to change their ships in awesome ways and makes anotehr variable in fitting them out. and yes of course the person with the most isk will win in a straight up tank v dps battle, same as it was before.
but...
tactics + brain = win over rigs + T2
DE
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Centurin
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.08 16:52:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
I'm not worried about me. I suck at pvp, i'm aware of that. But i'm also aware of many new players and startup corps who can't afford a rigged fleet who will get smashed over and over and over again solely because they lack the isk to afford the newest greatest rigged fleets.
Its not that they have rigs. Its just that they have way more SPs than you do.
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"It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
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Kuno Hida
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Posted - 2007.03.08 17:34:00 -
[34]
1. Anyone can get rigs given time. The materials required to get them are not monopolized, and cannot be.
2. 'I don't have the time to...'
you then also do not have the time to mine, or to train how to build rigs...since they are so time consuming. If you want the results of someone else's time, you have to pay.
3. If You can afford a Myrmidon (with 4 of those Nos you want removed) you can take a few more days to buy your rigs, or mission some for isk, so you can compete.
Life (and strangely EvE) is unfair. Learn to compete, or don't act so surprised people don't care to hear your views on 'fair'.
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Jamius
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Posted - 2007.03.08 18:15:00 -
[35]
To the OP.
I partially agree with what you are saying and, at the moment, a rich player can indeed seriously kit out their ships compared to a poorer player and rigs further widens their ability to gain the upper hand.
However, I think that if someone does indeed spend more on their ship, it should be better. They are putting more at risk and no matter how good the setup is, they can still easily get popped by greater numbers in cheaper ships.
I recently lost a good Raven setup to a nanophoon. Without focusing on the crazy current nano-ship situation as this is beside the point here, my opponent had spent much much more than me on his overall setup, and combined with him being a good pilot, it's fair enough that he won. He spent more and he risked more and good on him.
I think things will settle down and rigs will become cheaper anyway - it would happen quicker if there was not a multi-stage failure mechanism to salvaging rig parts in the 1st bloomin place (said by angry Jamius alt that has so far failed to get any t2 rig parts succesfully with salvaging at level 5  ).
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.08 18:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
Fun, is not farming the hell out of missions so i can get that one rig that'll finally get me on the same level as those i'm planning on taking on.
Fun is not brown nosing every industrialist i can find on the off chance that they're a t2 rig producer.
Fun used to be throwing some named t1, or some t2 mods on a cruiser/bc i had lying around, and going nucking futz in low sec/null sec.
I'll have to agree with ya there m8. If mods rigs, t2 ships, all didn't cost so damned much, we wouldn't have to farm missions for two weeks just to buy another ship & mods. People in general would pvp more often if it wasn't so isk intensive.
Sure we could just fly tech1 fitted cruisers (and I do sometimes), but chances are you'll just lose the ship... good tactics or not.
The addition of rigs certainly doesn't help, since we now need to spend another 100m on our rigs to keep our ships on par with the competition. My pvp Myrmidon is worth somewhere between 300 and 400m, and it's not even faction fitted... just tech2 gear and a few armor rigs.
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2007.03.08 18:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kruel
Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi
Fun, is not farming the hell out of missions so i can get that one rig that'll finally get me on the same level as those i'm planning on taking on.
Fun is not brown nosing every industrialist i can find on the off chance that they're a t2 rig producer.
Fun used to be throwing some named t1, or some t2 mods on a cruiser/bc i had lying around, and going nucking futz in low sec/null sec.
I'll have to agree with ya there m8. If mods rigs, t2 ships, all didn't cost so damned much, we wouldn't have to farm missions for two weeks just to buy another ship & mods. People in general would pvp more often if it wasn't so isk intensive.
Sure we could just fly tech1 fitted cruisers (and I do sometimes), but chances are you'll just lose the ship... good tactics or not.
The addition of rigs certainly doesn't help, since we now need to spend another 100m on our rigs to keep our ships on par with the competition. My pvp Myrmidon is worth somewhere between 300 and 400m, and it's not even faction fitted... just tech2 gear and a few armor rigs.
QFT there.
sgb
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icechip
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Posted - 2007.03.08 19:15:00 -
[38]
I dont see the complaint here , basically rigs ,are like adding new shiney rims to your car.
This is def a whine, Im only a 6 month old char, i have rigs, i built it myself cost me 2 mill for a warhead catalist rig, for my drake. So what the wine,
The rigs ,make ships less cookie cutter.
If your *****ing now wait till they release Heat!
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Jefferson Dubois
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.08 19:21:00 -
[39]
With very little research and travel you can buy all the salvage parts you need for a rig and build it yourself for 10 million and resell it for 20-30 million. No mission running or billion dollar wallet needed. It all comes down to hustle.
Can't knock the hustle.
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easei
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 19:59:00 -
[40]
Go to jita/(motsu might be better?) and look at the price of salvaged parts. Note that with the exception of cap/speed/cargohold rig parts they are only a few thousand isk per unit. You can build yourself shield/armor/electronics rigs for cheap, then look at the prices people charge for them. If you have truble making isk buy parts in bulk and sell the rigs you don't use. When I can assemble a rig for like 5-10 mil, turn around and make a 15-20 mil profit on them, why not. Basically if you can't be bothered to make your own, you deserve to pay the resellers tax.
And tech 2 ships/parts Read the dev blog here Linkage They realized invention didn't make the prices drop as much as they wanted so they are uncapping datacores and increasing skillbook drops. Soon you'll be able to make tech 2 part for yourself with a little bit of training.
Also just wondering why you rule out pirating in terms of rigs, are pirates not allowed to fit rigs on their ships? Or are they just more skilled and therefore don't need them to kill people? Admitting that rigs have less to do with a ship then your ability to pilot it.
I haven't fit a single rig to any of my ships (even my mission/ratting raven), not because I can't afford it, but because in my experience pvping/(and PVE) I've never needed to. PVP in my experience has been getting slaughterd or slaughtering, close fights are few and far between. The small percentages that rigs give as a bonus would not have in any way saved me (or the people I shot) from destruction.
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Kyreax
Deepspace Exploration Biscuit Repair Associates
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Posted - 2007.03.08 20:52:00 -
[41]
meh.
Our wee little corp has gathered over 10,000 pieces of salvage casually since salvage was released. It just takes time. Rigs are cheap, save a few. most in the 20 mil a piece range.
We've built a few as well, and sold them for profit.
Rigs are just another way for players with low skill points to compete with high sp players. I kinda like the flavor they add...it makes some ships more surprising to fight.
I'm not sure where you're getting the 200m figures from. Rigs have dropped way down since they came out. I'm sure there's more tweaks to be made.
just my 2 cents
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Ratey
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Posted - 2007.03.08 21:45:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Ratey on 08/03/2007 21:42:03
For fun, driving around over 9k/s with a stock MWD II in my inty.
oh yah, prices? I salvage and make my own. The BPOs are cheap.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.08 22:17:00 -
[43]
THE O.P. IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT TWO THINGS:
* IN A RIGGED-VS-UNRIGGED COMBAT, THE RIGGED SHIP WILL WIN MOST OF THE TIME, EVEN WITH A CLASS DIFFERENCE
* RIGS SIMPLY COST WAY TOO MUCH RIGHT NOW
Problem is, CCP stated several times already that they INTENDED rigs to be affordable for just about anybody on just about any ship (maybe with the exception of T1 frigates, but that's about it).
The price range should have been at most 2-3 mil ISK for the most expensive (versatile and/or powerful) ones, and WAY under 1 mil for the "specialised" ones.
Problem is, CCP screwed up, royally.
They screwed up the salvage drop rates.
People (including me) have been screaming their lungs out (or typing their fingers out, whatever) even since BEFORE Kali/Revelations hit TQ (from SiSi testing) about several things:
* that rigs are completely imbalanced in benefits compared to eachother
* that stack-nerfing in same "stack" as modules (instead of separately) further increase this previous issue
* that the specific combination between an annoying collection process, low component drop rates and the specific material manufacture "composition" (type and amount) will generate rig prices that are far above "affordable" for most people
Were we right ? Yes.
Did they say they wanted rigs to be what they're not? Yes.
Did they listen to us ? No.
Will they listen now ? UNLIKELY.
Things like this **** me off badly, but hey, we're kind of getting used to being screwed over on a daily basis, aren't we ?
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MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.03.08 23:46:00 -
[44]
So you need rigs? Thats not true. Without rigs you can still easily win against all the players that engage your tanking bs and suddenly your force recons decloak...The uber rig power isnt gonna stop that 
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Shismo
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:11:00 -
[45]
It does seem kind of silly that a mass of rubber bands and chewing gum holding togeather a bunch of scrap parts cost more than a ship=P
I was under the impression that rigs where going to simply be an added level of customization, in the sense that everyone would be able to have every single ship full up with rigs, and that the point was people being able to further specialize their ships, to the point that the rigs themselves arent even anything extra as far as effort goes, only a choice that says "i want my genericshiptype to be THIS kind of ship" and then you dig around for the rigs to do it.
I can see, like everything else in the game, there perhaps being some elite super rare expensive rigs, but i was under the impression that the rig slots where going to be filled as part of the initial ship-fitting process, even on an ibis.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shismo
I was under the impression that rigs where going to simply be an added level of customization, in the sense that everyone would be able to have every single ship full up with rigs, and that the point was people being able to further specialize their ships, to the point that the rigs themselves arent even anything extra as far as effort goes, only a choice that says "i want my genericshiptype to be THIS kind of ship" and then you dig around for the rigs to do it.
That's EXACTLY what the devs SAID they wanted rigs to be, when they were being tested on SiSi and the (now closed down) "Kali test" forum section was fired up and working overtime.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Qolde
Minmatar
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:30:00 -
[47]
I'm going to sound rude.
This is an MMORPG. Not an FPS.
If you want a fair fight: Go play on the test server.
If you want to spend more time shooting: Go play on the test server.
If you want less risk in PvP: Go play on the test server.
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Shismo
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Qolde
I'm going to sound rude.
This is an MMORPG. Not an FPS.
If you want a fair fight: Go play on the test server.
If you want to spend more time shooting: Go play on the test server.
If you want less risk in PvP: Go play on the test server.
Well, considering its an mmoRPG, how about we dont want a bunch of fried circuit boards and scrap metal glued togeather to cost more than a brand new space craft?
While i agree with your above points, rigs are just stupid the way they are now, and its clear they arent ment to be the way they are now. (or my bantam wouldnt have three rig slots)
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Kur'Dekaija
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.03.09 08:50:00 -
[49]
why are ppl whining? do 1-2 lvl 4 mission and you got yourself enough isk for most type of rigs?? or do what everyone else have been saying, make them yourself. Ive casually ratted in a crappy 0.0 system(12 belts) for 2 days, 1-2 hours at a time and I got enough parts to make 1 rig. I even had to share the belts.
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Qolde
Minmatar
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.14 22:27:00 -
[50]
They are too expensive. I agree with that. I decided to get into building them, and found out something. You have to travel to the ends of the universe to get the different pieces at fair prices. Traders know this, and they buy where they are cheap, then sell them for more where they are rare, taking a fair amount of pieces out of circulation for people who are looking to build rigs.
It's fair I guess, but that's the reason why they are so expensive. Also, people don't regularly take salvagers to pvp. Makes the pieces even rarer. Nobody wants to salvage their NPC wrecks, because they can't just dock and sell them for a good price, and nobody wants to travel through 9 regions looking for good prices to buy these things that nobody wants to waste time acquiring, since they can't sell them for a good price.
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