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Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 03:52:00 - [1] Firstly lets look at the T1 varients of each races interceptors in order of least mass Executioner (Amarr) Mass: 1,000,000 kg Slasher (Minmatar) Mass: 1,000,000 kg Atron (Gallente) Mass: 1,100,000 kg Condor (Caldari) Mass: 1,150,000 kg This is pretty much the same pattern that is repeted with most ships with minmatar normally lowest mass then amarr or gallente with caldari consistently last this can be seen by compairing all the same tier BC or BS they hyperion being the only exception and the the destroyers and interdictors not all other ship classes are easy to compair but can be used also. Now lets look at the interceptors, again in order of least mass. Malediction (Amarr) : 1,000,000 kg Crow (Caldari) : 1,000,000 kg Crusader (Amarr) : 1,050,000 kg Raptor (Caldari) : 1,075,000 kg Taranis (Gallente) : 1,075,000 kg Ares (Gallente) : 1,100,000 kg Stiletto (Minmatar) : 1,100,000 kg Claw (Minmatar) :1,125,000 kg Now considering the minmatar race is known for its speedy agile light weight craft you would expect them to excell in interceptors where speed and agility is key and considering that caldari are consitently heavy and cumbersome they would be expected to be the heavyest of all interceptors. Yet it is the two minmatar interceptors tht are the heavyest and although they have the highest base speed because of the way MWDs work they are not the fastest of the interceptors losing their only natural advantage. Even without that advantage the claw and to a lesser extent the stiletto are still blighted by all the normal minmatar problems (the locking range as pointed out in another thread a very distinct handicap). Caldari however get longest locking range and one of the 2 lightest interceptors along with a large number of other advantages which make theirs by far the most desirable im not saying it all should be changed locking ranges ect are part of the normal advantages of caldari but the mass is not. Yes i am probably slightly biased but the comments of my corp mates when discussing interceptors does suggest this is something that should be altered.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.08 05:44:00 - [2] Claw and Crow masses should be switched.
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.08 05:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Claw and Crow masses should be switched. Agree'd - the claw is soley dependant on catching its opponent and entering close range combats, where it excells... But the crow is so light, that with faction/t2 mods it can out-strip the claw, unless its also fitted for extreme speed; which stop it using its extra powergrid for tanking etc. to its advantage. lets be honest these days you need 3 I-Stabs on your claw, and you only use like 34-40 PG (even with 200's)... so the 40PG base that allows your JaegerBomb's becomes redundant. On a related note, caldari are supposed to have the lowest PG of al the races in every ship - yet the crow is join 3rd with the ranis, malediction etc. just behind the Claw and 'sader. I mean with AWU you can fit 3x Standard launcher II, shield booster, Mwd, scram then all 3 lo's are free for speed mods... no extra fitting needed! Comon!
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.08 06:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Azerrad InExile Claw and Crow masses should be switched. Agree'd - the claw is soley dependant on catching its opponent and entering close range combats, where it excells... But the crow is so light, that with faction/t2 mods it can out-strip the claw, unless its also fitted for extreme speed; which stop it using its extra powergrid for tanking etc. to its advantage. lets be honest these days you need 3 I-Stabs on your claw, and you only use like 34-40 PG (even with 200's)... so the 40PG base that allows your JaegerBomb's becomes redundant. On a related note, caldari are supposed to have the lowest PG of al the races in every ship - yet the crow is join 3rd with the ranis, malediction etc. just behind the Claw and 'sader. I mean with AWU you can fit 3x Standard launcher II, shield booster, Mwd, scram then all 3 lo's are free for speed mods... no extra fitting needed! Comon! The crow is prolly the only caldari ship in the game that is "best in class". best t2 BC surely isn't caldari. best hac surely isn't caldari. best AF surely isn't caldari. I don't even fly the bloody things, but let caldari have something useful...
Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:04:00 - [5] they have the best mission boats :P
Zirth Caldari The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:09:00 - [6] And the best jamming ships.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:15:00 - [7] And the best T2 Deep Space Transport(that you'd want to actually get shot in). ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:35:00 - [8] longest range sniper snips (rohk, eagle, vulture) anyways, claw and stilleto should be switched for crow and raptor, respectively.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.03.08 07:42:00 - [9] If anything should have less mass it's the Stiletto. Its offense and defense isn't even comparable to the other inties, but it makes a mean tackler. It should outrun all the other inties tbh. Anyone remember?
babylonstew Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Graalum longest range sniper snips (rohk, eagle, vulture) anyways, claw and stilleto should be switched for crow and raptor, respectively. yeah make the raptor even more useless, nice one ------ snip please keep sigs EVE-related. Contact [email protected] if you have any further questions - Karass Sayfo CCp nerfed my sig and all i got was this crummy message ^^^
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:08:00 - [11] Originally by: babylonstew Originally by: Graalum longest range sniper snips (rohk, eagle, vulture) anyways, claw and stilleto should be switched for crow and raptor, respectively. yeah make the raptor even more useless, nice one Raptor isn't useless. My blaster/rocket Raptor has half again the dps of my missile Crow and costs a hell of a lot less to replace. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:15:00 - [12] Originally by: babylonstew Originally by: Graalum longest range sniper snips (rohk, eagle, vulture) anyways, claw and stilleto should be switched for crow and raptor, respectively. yeah make the raptor even more useless, nice one Funny thing is there are a number of people in my corp who fly raptors as it is and yet even though we have a reasonable number of minmatar pilots and claws (5mil) and stilettos (4mil for us) are very cheap no one in the corp has or will fly them other than me and even i have not flown a claw in about 8 months. Stiletto partially redeems itself in being able to fit MWD, Scram, Web and cap injector making it slightly useful.
Danjira Ryuujin	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Zirth And the best jamming ships. Imagine that, Caldari have the best ships for the Caldari Racial EW.
Awox I Fought Piranhas	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Verite Rendition And the best T2 Deep Space Transport(that you'd want to actually get shot in). You're kidding right? Everyone knows the Mastodon is the best Deep Space Transport. Holding slightly less than the Bustard, but with really even resists (only one hole) and a bit faster to boot.
NoNah	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:44:00 - [15] Wait, what are you talking about? Industrials getting shot at? Is it just me or do I not want to get shot in any industrial ever, short of the battlebadger wich is... oh, right, caldari. Caldari got some of the strongest BS's around, Rokh is great for both fleet and small group pvp. Raven is the best for pve. Scorpion the best for EW? BC's, is there anyone around to say the drake is not great? As for command ships, ive never flown any caldari ones, and cant be the judge, but... from what Ive heard the nighthawk is not bad, especially not pve. As for hac's, the Cerb? The caracal in itself is one of the best cruisers, cerb keeps that tradition and brings it into the t2-era. As for recons, they are the only ones able to utlize jammers these days, and, being chancebased and all, its not as stable as the damps of a gallente one for example, but theres no doubt it can get its job done. To the OP, I cant do anything but agree and sign.
JEST3R	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Azerrad InExile Claw and Crow masses should be switched. Agree'd - the claw is soley dependant on catching its opponent and entering close range combats, where it excells... But the crow is so light, that with faction/t2 mods it can out-strip the claw, unless its also fitted for extreme speed; which stop it using its extra powergrid for tanking etc. to its advantage. lets be honest these days you need 3 I-Stabs on your claw, and you only use like 34-40 PG (even with 200's)... so the 40PG base that allows your JaegerBomb's becomes redundant. On a related note, caldari are supposed to have the lowest PG of al the races in every ship - yet the crow is join 3rd with the ranis, malediction etc. just behind the Claw and 'sader. I mean with AWU you can fit 3x Standard launcher II, shield booster, Mwd, scram then all 3 lo's are free for speed mods... no extra fitting needed! Comon! So when you come across a shield boosting Crow, with a cap hungry 20km scrambler and no web and 3 speed mods all you have to do is tank one volley of missiles theen wait for 10-15 seconds and he will be out of cap... At this point an afterburning rifter will be fast enough to can go in and get a web and nos on him and that is the end of the Crow. If not he is still MWDin then I can assure you that the disruptor is off, so just warp away :) You need maxed cap skills and at least 2 CPR's to keep a 20km disruptor and MWD going for any decent length of time. Do most Claw pilots not fit a 400mm plate anyway, surely this mod negates any mass reduction advantage anyway? I would expect for you to be asking for a 3rd mid to make the Claw really excel at close range combat... Or am I getting this wrong? You want to fit 400mm plate, be as fast as an inty setup purely for long range speed and cap sustainability and still do enough close range damage to take out any inty you get in range of, whilst also being the fastest MWDing inty (which you won't even have switched on in close range orbit), yep, makes perfect sense to me.
VanNostrum Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.08 12:02:00 - [17] lets face it, Caldari are technologicly superior to other races their T2 ships are bound to be better than their counterparts (and obviously more expensive) That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter. It is a combat drone used by carriers.
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:14:00 - [18] Originally by: JEST3R Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Azerrad InExile Claw and Crow masses should be switched. Agree'd - the claw is soley dependant on catching its opponent and entering close range combats, where it excells... But the crow is so light, that with faction/t2 mods it can out-strip the claw, unless its also fitted for extreme speed; which stop it using its extra powergrid for tanking etc. to its advantage. lets be honest these days you need 3 I-Stabs on your claw, and you only use like 34-40 PG (even with 200's)... so the 40PG base that allows your JaegerBomb's becomes redundant. On a related note, caldari are supposed to have the lowest PG of al the races in every ship - yet the crow is join 3rd with the ranis, malediction etc. just behind the Claw and 'sader. I mean with AWU you can fit 3x Standard launcher II, shield booster, Mwd, scram then all 3 lo's are free for speed mods... no extra fitting needed! Comon! So when you come across a shield boosting Crow, with a cap hungry 20km scrambler and no web and 3 speed mods all you have to do is tank one volley of missiles theen wait for 10-15 seconds and he will be out of cap... At this point an afterburning rifter will be fast enough to can go in and get a web and nos on him and that is the end of the Crow. If not he is still MWDin then I can assure you that the disruptor is off, so just warp away :) You need maxed cap skills and at least 2 CPR's to keep a 20km disruptor and MWD going for any decent length of time. Do most Claw pilots not fit a 400mm plate anyway, surely this mod negates any mass reduction advantage anyway? I would expect for you to be asking for a 3rd mid to make the Claw really excel at close range combat... Or am I getting this wrong? You want to fit 400mm plate, be as fast as an inty setup purely for long range speed and cap sustainability and still do enough close range damage to take out any inty you get in range of, whilst also being the fastest MWDing inty (which you won't even have switched on in close range orbit), yep, makes perfect sense to me. Firstly for a claw to get within range of any interceptor when fitted with a 400mm plate that ceptor also has to be close range or badly skilled and even then its not going to be able to hold the other ceptor there to kill it. However a mass change for the claw would not make it as fast as long range intys even with maxed navi skills and a T2 MWD my alt could get a plated claw up to a maximum of 4.5km/s without a command ship, speed rigs or a snake set that is definitely not enough to catch the long range ares or crows of my corp mates that even though their skills are not maxed already do about 6km/s again just T2 MWD no rigs ect and all inertia stabs ect are just T1 there is no way changing its mass to that of the crow would get it up to 6km/s with a plate fitted. Minmatar are the speed race its their strength so why in the ship class that is most dependent on speed should minmatar be the possibly the slowest? Also from the T1 versions claw increases its mass by 12.5% and stiletto by 10% the only other ship to even increase in mass does so by a bare 5% and only 2 stay the same mass the crow actually has a ruduction in mass of about 13% even if the crow was the mass of the claw or the stiletto it would still be a mass reduction on the condor.
ADR1AN Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Random Womble Firstly for a claw to get within range of any interceptor when fitted with a 400mm plate that ceptor also has to be close range or badly skilled and even then its not going to be able to hold the other ceptor there to kill it. However a mass change for the claw would not make it as fast as long range intys even with maxed navi skills and a T2 MWD my alt could get a plated claw up to a maximum of 4.5km/s without a command ship, speed rigs or a snake set that is definitely not enough to catch the long range ares or crows of my corp mates that even though their skills are not maxed already do about 6km/s again just T2 MWD no rigs ect and all inertia stabs ect are just T1 there is no way changing its mass to that of the crow would get it up to 6km/s with a plate fitted. Minmatar are the speed race its their strength so why in the ship class that is most dependent on speed should minmatar be the possibly the slowest? Also from the T1 versions claw increases its mass by 12.5% and stiletto by 10% the only other ship to even increase in mass does so by a bare 5% and only 2 stay the same mass the crow actually has a ruduction in mass of about 13% even if the crow was the mass of the claw or the stiletto it would still be a mass reduction on the condor. Ask your corpmates how long they can maintain the MWD and 20km scram for with all inertial stabs in their lows, certainly not long enough to kill a 400mm plated Claw, which means that they will be unable to kill you. Now, were the Claw made fast enough so it could get in range of a Crow, it is irrelevant, because the Crow will just web you and move out of range again. As I said, i'm surprised you are trying to get the crow changed when the Taranis will beat a Claw everytime close range due to having the the web...seriously, if you are using it for close range, speed is not nearly as important as 3 mids...
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 14:09:00 - [20] Getting into range to kill a crow is not the issue for a start even though a crow might not be able to run a MWD forever it does infact have a higher base cap than the claw and so would be able to run the MWD for longer than a claw could. The reason why this thread is not discussing giving the claw a third med so it can web as well or giving the stiletto an extra low or high instead of a med is because most uses of interceptors these days are based on speed not on interceptor to interceptor dogfights and it is odd that the race that in general is the lightest and quickest loses its main feature in the ship type that best suits it.
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.09 04:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Random Womble Getting into range to kill a crow is not the issue for a start even though a crow might not be able to run a MWD forever it does infact have a higher base cap than the claw and so would be able to run the MWD for longer than a claw could. The reason why this thread is not discussing giving the claw a third med so it can web as well or giving the stiletto an extra low or high instead of a med is because most uses of interceptors these days are based on speed not on interceptor to interceptor dogfights and it is odd that the race that in general is the lightest and quickest loses its main feature in the ship type that best suits it. I have to disagree - my stileto with a sensor booster and mwd/scram/web is a gem for catching covert ops ships at gates. You have a scan res of nearly 2000, so you can lock so fast that they cant re-cloak. It's the easist 80mil i've ever made. alot of crow's use speed rigs these days, menaing the low's can go to cap recharging. its not hard to tank a named MWD and faint 20k scram with (admittedly) max cap skills and prop jamming etc. and only 2 cap mods, be it rigs or relay's.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.09 06:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Tunajuice Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Azerrad InExile Claw and Crow masses should be switched. Agree'd - the claw is soley dependant on catching its opponent and entering close range combats, where it excells... But the crow is so light, that with faction/t2 mods it can out-strip the claw, unless its also fitted for extreme speed; which stop it using its extra powergrid for tanking etc. to its advantage. lets be honest these days you need 3 I-Stabs on your claw, and you only use like 34-40 PG (even with 200's)... so the 40PG base that allows your JaegerBomb's becomes redundant. On a related note, caldari are supposed to have the lowest PG of al the races in every ship - yet the crow is join 3rd with the ranis, malediction etc. just behind the Claw and 'sader. I mean with AWU you can fit 3x Standard launcher II, shield booster, Mwd, scram then all 3 lo's are free for speed mods... no extra fitting needed! Comon! The crow is prolly the only caldari ship in the game that is "best in class". best t2 BC surely isn't caldari. best hac surely isn't caldari. best AF surely isn't caldari. I don't even fly the bloody things, but let caldari have something useful... "Best in class"leads to imbalance,most ships do have a specialization,whether being unseen etc... Even if the crow gains weight it still has the ability to outrun a claw if the pilot isnt fully maxed out,which means its missiles hit the enemy,whereas his turrets cannot hit the crow,but switched same end result besides the fact the turrets hit the crow. Now back to "best in class"raven isnt the best in class,normally most people hate flying the thing for pvp,but,when they go out ratting or mission running its two thumbs up! Just as most people wont take a blasterthron mission running due to the mwd gimpage,but that doesnt mean it sucks at pvp. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Lady Ann Caldari War Hawks	Posted - 2007.03.09 08:49:00 - [23] I agree here. Interceptor masses should be reviewed! Minmatar frigs should be far more faster than others. All caldari ships are very slow with biggest mass in their class and bad agility. Why interceptors break that rule ? I support idea where all interceptors should have equal mass, so only their base speed will matter. Thats sounds fair. Really whats the point of Claw higher base speed if Crusader has a bit low but far lighter, and with mwd has same speed as claw? /signed Ceptors should be reworked!
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.09 11:30:00 - [24] Leave the crow alone ! It's the only ship that we can 1v1 in without any problem and is the best in the whole department. Shouldn't chronicles justify why crow is so good ? Maybe there you'll find the answers.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Dragy Leave the crow alone ! It's the only ship that we can 1v1 in without any problem and is the best in the whole department. Shouldn't chronicles justify why crow is so good ? Maybe there you'll find the answers. its deffo not okay if only one ship wihtin the game dominates a whole shipclass in all aspects m8. if the ships where better balanced there would be more challange for u and me. u would need to think more about ur ship decision and its ups and downs for the intended purpose u want to comit to. i dont flame u here but i think that u should be able to fight dogfights in all interceptors regardless of race or weapon system and have a pretty good time doing so. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Reto Originally by: Dragy Leave the crow alone ! It's the only ship that we can 1v1 in without any problem and is the best in the whole department. Shouldn't chronicles justify why crow is so good ? Maybe there you'll find the answers. its deffo not okay if only one ship wihtin the game dominates a whole shipclass in all aspects m8. if the ships where better balanced there would be more challange for u and me. u would need to think more about ur ship decision and its ups and downs for the intended purpose u want to comit to. i dont flame u here but i think that u should be able to fight dogfights in all interceptors regardless of race or weapon system and have a pretty good time doing so. If i invest 200mil in a frig it needs to be worth it, end of story.
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.10 05:02:00 - [27] Edited by: Maeltstome on 10/03/2007 05:01:58 Edited by: Maeltstome on 10/03/2007 05:01:12 Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Reto Originally by: Dragy Leave the crow alone ! It's the only ship that we can 1v1 in without any problem and is the best in the whole department. Shouldn't chronicles justify why crow is so good ? Maybe there you'll find the answers. its deffo not okay if only one ship wihtin the game dominates a whole shipclass in all aspects m8. if the ships where better balanced there would be more challange for u and me. u would need to think more about ur ship decision and its ups and downs for the intended purpose u want to comit to. i dont flame u here but i think that u should be able to fight dogfights in all interceptors regardless of race or weapon system and have a pretty good time doing so. If i invest 200mil in a frig it needs to be worth it, end of story. Price isn't an argument. Player drievn market means that value doesnt determine effectivness. If i spent 200 mil on an anti-ceptor claw then it would decimate your crow. Sadly that 200mil would be wasited against a bigger ship for tackling, where-as your crow would still perform excellently. "i win" crow setup... no one ship should have a setup that makes it best in class for pretty much everything, all at the same time.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.10 10:21:00 - [28] Edited by: welsh wizard on 10/03/2007 10:23:41 No they absolutely shouldn't you whinging Minmatar gits! The Crow is the product of superior Caldari Frigate engineering, the culmination of years of warfare against the Gallente scum (my roleplay bit). It's a fantastic tackle ship but only wins inty 1v1's versus a poor opponent as a good opponent can always get away or bob you into web range. As someone else said, let Caldari have a best in class and one fast ship. Best snipers, best jamming ships, these things don't make the ships best in class do they? Yeah the Eagle is well good... Live with it. edit: As for this crap about the Crow being easy to fly, rubbish! The micromanagement required to fight another interceptor or successfully tackle a nos ship is difficult to master. "But tracking, tracking, its all about tracking, turret ships can't track whinge, moan" etc. Also complete tosh, just approach the Crow, if you spent anywhere near as much on your ship as he did in his you'll either web him and kill him or track him given the nature his ship flies when another inty approaches. The very best he can hope for is getting out alive. Try fighting a Crow in rail ranis or a quick Claw then come back here with your "nerf all Caldari pvp ability because they have good mission runner!" threads.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.10 11:06:00 - [29] Edited by: welsh wizard on 10/03/2007 11:06:18 Meanwhile, aboard the Minmatar flagship MSS NanoI-stabLOL'zers.... Ensign: "Sir! You should come and see this." Captain: "What is it Ensign?" Ensign: "Long range scanners have picked up a Caldari pilot in a Crow sir. Normally I wouldn't think much of it sir, but he appears to be having fun!" Captain: "Fun you say? Well this is most irregular, set a course for his quadrant Ensign" Ensign: "Sir, thats not all, it gets worse!" Captain: "How could it possibly get any worse Ensign?" Ensign: voice audibly trembling "He appears... appears to be alone Captain!!" Captain: "OMFGWTFLMAOBERJEEBERS!! Quick Ensign, red alert! To the nerf mobile!"
Boromeus	Posted - 2007.03.10 13:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Zirth And the best jamming ships. LIES!!!
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.10 16:14:00 - [31] Originally by: Maeltstome Edited by: Maeltstome on 10/03/2007 05:01:58 Edited by: Maeltstome on 10/03/2007 05:01:12 Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Reto Originally by: Dragy Leave the crow alone ! It's the only ship that we can 1v1 in without any problem and is the best in the whole department. Shouldn't chronicles justify why crow is so good ? Maybe there you'll find the answers. its deffo not okay if only one ship wihtin the game dominates a whole shipclass in all aspects m8. if the ships where better balanced there would be more challange for u and me. u would need to think more about ur ship decision and its ups and downs for the intended purpose u want to comit to. i dont flame u here but i think that u should be able to fight dogfights in all interceptors regardless of race or weapon system and have a pretty good time doing so. If i invest 200mil in a frig it needs to be worth it, end of story. Price isn't an argument. Player drievn market means that value doesnt determine effectivness. If i spent 200 mil on an anti-ceptor claw then it would decimate your crow. Sadly that 200mil would be wasited against a bigger ship for tackling, where-as your crow would still perform excellently. "i win" crow setup... no one ship should have a setup that makes it best in class for pretty much everything, all at the same time. If you can't beat a 30mil-worth crow in a claw that you invested 200mil something ain't right here. Either you read and practise how to do ceptor 1v1's or how to fit a ceptor 1v1. Don't forget that howies have the worst tracking from all long range guns and since minmatar race is building their ships from metalscrap they have no possibilities to invent a good interceptor class ship.
Spaced Skunk D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.10 16:16:00 - [32] /signed Minny inty masses should be lowest not highest tbh.
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.10 16:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Spaced Skunk /signed Minny inty masses should be lowest not highest tbh. If you take into consideration the technology and chronicles, you're wrong.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.03.10 16:31:00 - [34] /signed supid that claw is so slow \|- My Sig loggedoffskied -\| Save Radar Scanner Man!
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.10 16:46:00 - [35] Originally by: SasRipper /signed supid that claw is so slow Claw is the fastest ceptor, but with biggest mass ...
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.03.10 17:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Spaced Skunk /signed Minny inty masses should be lowest not highest tbh. If you take into consideration the technology and chronicles, you're wrong. In-game role play shouldnt get in the way of in-game balance.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.03.10 18:02:00 - [37] Am I the only one who thinks 1mil+ kilograms is a bit frackin much for a 1 man ship? Thats like the weight of an apartment building. CCP needs to work on their numbers of Mass and Volume and Size and the other things that are really off. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.10 21:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Spaced Skunk /signed Minny inty masses should be lowest not highest tbh. If you take into consideration the technology and chronicles, you're wrong. In-game role play shouldnt get in the way of in-game balance. Actually if you look at ALL ships, CCP is developing 'em thanks to in-game role play. So there's nothing wrong here tbh.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.10 21:39:00 - [39] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 10/03/2007 21:38:32 Originally by: Majin82 Am I the only one who thinks 1mil+ kilograms is a bit frackin much for a 1 man ship? Thats like the weight of an apartment building. CCP needs to work on their numbers of Mass and Volume and Size and the other things that are really off. Have you looked at the size chart? Frigate-sized ships are pretty good sized, they're not one-man ships.
nabort Evil Proctologists	Posted - 2007.03.10 21:54:00 - [40] Despite being a Minmater pilot, i dont think the claw really needs a mass reduction. I fly taranises , crusaders and claws. I find that my taranis is the slowest, then crusader, then claw. The crusader has more speed potential but has to have 1/2x CPRs to function properly for a long time, giving the claw an extra speed mod in the lows. However, i do think the crow needs to be knocked off its pedestal a bit, caldari having something fast...surely not???
easei Energy.	Posted - 2007.03.10 22:08:00 - [41] You can decrease the mass of the claw all you want it'll still be a POS tackling/dueling ceptor with 2 mids and 17km base lock range. The stiletto is a "gang" tackler not ceptor dueler, and gets an extra mid slot. balances out IMO. So instead of nerfing other races ceptors why not just fix the problem with the claw so it can be made an effective arty platform...faster tracking, longerlock range, slightly more cap/sec.
Cpt Fina Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.11 02:27:00 - [42] The crow does not need a nerf. Just because your allaround setup won't do the job doesn't mean that the crow is unbeatable. Fit any inty to kill a crow and it will.
Toolivus	Posted - 2007.03.11 08:19:00 - [43] The stiletto really needs to lose some weight. That the most pure and efficent tackleceptor is also the second most fat-assed and relatively slow doesn't make too much sense.
MinRray Minmatar PaxLuce AbjectioNati Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 12:19:00 - [44] agreed about the big masses of minmatar ceptors , they should be slightly lower , not to become a WTFPWN ceptor . i dont care about the current crow , just about the matar ones . also ... i don't know if u guys noticed but take a look at ur claw's wings after jumping through a gate and it is cloaked and when it decloaks and u have the normal ship model , the claw's wings are different models ... bug ... feature ? ; just watch the wings when it is cloaked after jumping a gate :) ... personally i like the cloaked model better "war ... war never changes"
MinRray Minmatar PaxLuce AbjectioNati Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 21:49:00 - [45] btw i am the only one who is seeing the claw's wings :) ? "war ... war never changes"
Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.13 20:10:00 - [46] No i seen it too - the same happens with all T2 ships. There are 2 slightly different models for each hul at T2, but only one 'cloaked model' - the same happens with the wolf and jag. When you think about it, the claw is basically a rifter, but faster base speed and a slightly different slot layout. Make it a 4-3-3 and you have a faster rifter with a bit more PG and less PG. I doubt i'd mind that.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.13 21:59:00 - [47] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 13/03/2007 21:57:32 Originally by: Xelios If anything should have less mass it's the Stiletto. Its offense and defense isn't even comparable to the other inties, but it makes a mean tackler. It should outrun all the other inties tbh. /signed /me <3 my Stiletto. It's name is Sycorax. It wants to go faster. Lots faster. One of the Minmatar interceptors should get a 5% velocity bonus per level. Probably Claw, but I don't care much either way. I prefer the Stiletto but maybe if the Claw had a velocity bonus I'd like it better. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 10/03/2007 21:38:32 Originally by: Majin82 Am I the only one who thinks 1mil+ kilograms is a bit frackin much for a 1 man ship? Thats like the weight of an apartment building. CCP needs to work on their numbers of Mass and Volume and Size and the other things that are really off. Have you looked at the size chart? Frigate-sized ships are pretty good sized, they're not one-man ships. You are wrong my friend, Frigates are 1 person ships, flown by you, the pod pilot. Before PODs you are correct, they had a small crew, but with the invention of the POD they are 1 man. Either way, they are not big enough in size to account for a mass of over 1mil KG. An Nimus Class Air Craft Carrier doesn't even weight 1 mil KG. So again, CCP needs to work on the numbers for the ships in this game. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:44:00 - [49] Edited by: Arian Snow on 14/03/2007 01:43:09 I agree that the Stiletto at least should get a mass reduction! Its a very slow ceptor. I dont know what CCP has in store with istabs but as it is now a Claw doesn't depend on a plate these days. I fit Istabs to keep up and tackle as fast as I can. Both the Claw and the Stiletto is flawed! The stilleto has absolutely crap damage output and its too slow. The Claw only has 2 midslots which isn't great for any tackler! And its heavy as hell which is bad because it cant keep its close orbit very well so it relies on Barrage to do the damage, and 7.5km scramblers can loose their target too easily! Also, the Crow can with its 3 midslots easily keep a 20km disrupter going... Cap injectors do exist in EVE or haven't you noticed? The Claw cannot use injectors with only 2 midslots... ----------------------------------------------- I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.03.14 04:10:00 - [50] Oh commeon, Caldari is known for their superiority in small atack ships and ceptors fall to that cathegory.
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Elain Reverse Oh commeon, Caldari is known for their superiority in small atack ships and ceptors fall to that cathegory. Depends hwo you look on it - the kestrel is heavy and slow despite its firepower. The merlin is a bit faster and has a tanking bonus. Only the condor is nippy - and its terrible at combat, but the crow is fast and awesome in combat. Go figure.

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