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zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:22:00 - [1] flame if you wish, but i have thought about this for some time. ships larger than cruisers should cost 10 times as much. a battleship that is larger than a RL aircraft carrier shouldn't cost 120 million bucks when it's RL counterpart costs 4.5 bn. then it would be a considerable investment that people would take more seriously, and not be willing to dump enmasse into the fray. these larger ships should also have considerably more armor, along the lines of 3 times the current levels. they should have some inate but not insane armor and systems repair abilities, maybe a resident fleet of small fast drones that makes external repairs. these drones would be extremely difficult to target and hit. but you could take out this set of drones and disable a ships ability to repair itself. armor and hull rep modules should be limited to dedicated repair and logistics vessels. just my opinion. but having 120 million isk battleships somehow makes them less impressive. ------------------------------ If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin.
Crydawner	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:28:00 - [2] buy a dreadnought?
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:31:00 - [3] How are you comparing isk to RL money? And why are you only doing it for BS? I think I'm gonna sell my house and buy me a frigate-sized spaceship! (Or would that cost a lot more than a house?) =AFK=
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. ------------------------------ If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin.
BluWine	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:33:00 - [5] Can I have your stuff? (Did I do it right?)
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Estel Arador How are you comparing isk to RL money? And why are you only doing it for BS? I think I'm gonna sell my house and buy me a frigate-sized spaceship! (Or would that cost a lot more than a house?) I made the comparison for context. my point is that these ships no longer have a wow factor, they are too easy to get into and too easy to replace. and yes, I believe a frigate the size of a house should cost more than a house. ------------------------------ If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:38:00 - [7] 120mil for a bs is a lot to some people. Buying a dread is not in everyone's price range by FAR. The changes you suggest would leave behind a large number of players. Maybe you've played for a while, or just grinded ISK more than the average player and so think things are too cheap but I think you need to take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture.
Crydawner	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:41:00 - [8] Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. i am a new player and earning 4 billion to simply buy a ship bigger than a cruiser would take, in a cruiser, a stupidly long time! and what happens when ya lose it :P? i think you have too much money
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:54:00 - [9] Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS?
Crydawner	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 Motherships coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 Dreadnoughts coming into an engagement.
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.03.08 09:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Crydawner Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 Motherships coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 Dreadnoughts coming into an engagement. buy a titan?
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:14:00 - [12] Edited by: zibelthurdos on 08/03/2007 10:14:49 Edited by: zibelthurdos on 08/03/2007 10:14:30 Originally by: Crydawner Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? I am a new player and earning 4 billion to simply buy a ship bigger than a cruiser would take, in a cruiser, a stupidly long time! and what happens when ya lose it :P? I think you have too much money I didn't say a battleship should cost 4 billion, I said it should in my opinion cost 10 times what it currently costs. or for example, approx 1.2 billion for a raven. ------------------------------ If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin.
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: Crydawner Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 Motherships coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 Dreadnoughts coming into an engagement. buy a titan? do you think it should be easy for anyone to pour through 5 battleships in a week due to large fleet engagements simnply because they live in 0.0? or do you think it better that people should have to take a moment to consider what the loss would do. rather than (Squish, pop into backup raven #6, Back to the front line) and yes, i do know people who own 6 fitted battleships. ------------------------------ If you ain't dyin, you ain't tryin.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:27:00 - [14] Yeah, there comes a point in this game where ship loss is meaningless. I reached that point about a year ago and now I don't really care if my ship goes pop, there will be another waiting for me in the corp hanger. But the OPs idea would make the game too hard for new players. It took a lot of effort to get my first Megathron and I was pretty chuffed when I finally undocked it. If the cost was 10 times as much I would not have bothered, in fact I would not have bothered paying my subs.
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:31:00 - [15] hm, my main lives in 0.0 and there i have usually 1 fitted pvp BS that gets pwned during 1 or 2 weeks. when that happenes, i fly a cruiser for a while, because i cannot afford another BS. Im not the guy who grinds everyday to get money for another BS. Those who like to grind and go through 5 BSs a week - so should it be. If a BS would cost 1,2b like u suggest, i wont ever buy a BS but those who grind would. Nowadays i cant afford a dread, but the grinding people can. It doesnt matter what u do, some people will always have many expensive toys, others dont. Maybe you play too long to understand the view of a casual playing noob? I know many people who can only play at the weekend or for an hour daily (which is, for a computer game, a lot IMO). A BS is a lot of money for a real noob (not a vet who starts over).
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:32:00 - [16] One thing - the ISK is not the dollar. InterStellar Kredits are just that - an interstellar trade standard designed for use on an industrial and macro-economic level. As such, the value of a single ISK is much higher than the dollar or the pound. Think about it: with three ISK, you can buy ten cubic centimeters of a material that can only be extracted from asteroids, is chemically unstable at atmospheric pressures, and is the primary construction material in starship hulls because of its light mass and high tensile strength. Try buying something like that with three dollars sometime. Even a plain old frigate, at 250,000 ISK is a piece of military hardware that would cost something like 40 million dollars. Using that as a constant, unless my math skills have failed me badly, that means that a single ISK is worth something like 160 dollars. Still think the ships need to be made more expensive? That battleship doesn't cost $120,000,00, it costs $19,200,000,000. A megathron is worth about twenty billion real world monies, without modules. ISK ain't dollars. I dun da maffs dat pruve it. :D ***
Jex Jast Go for the booty	Posted - 2007.03.08 10:40:00 - [17] Originally by: infraX Edited by: infraX on 08/03/2007 09:37:33 120mil for a bs is a lot to some people. QFT Oh and I find it funny that the "buy a [insert bigger ship] got hijacked by someone else, but the following poster didn't notice and assumed it was the OP defending again. ============= Gate Camp: Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Think of it like fishing with a machine gun while in a tent full of people that won't shut up on ts
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Jex Jast Originally by: infraX Edited by: infraX on 08/03/2007 09:37:33 120mil for a bs is a lot to some people. QFT Oh and I find it funny that the "buy a [insert bigger ship] got hijacked by someone else, but the following poster didn't notice and assumed it was the OP defending again. i noticed it, but i wanted the joke to be continued
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.03.08 11:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Stitcher One thing - the ISK is not the dollar. InterStellar Kredits are just that - an interstellar trade standard designed for use on an industrial and macro-economic level. As such, the value of a single ISK is much higher than the dollar or the pound. Think about it: with three ISK, you can buy ten cubic centimeters of a material that can only be extracted from asteroids, is chemically unstable at atmospheric pressures, and is the primary construction material in starship hulls because of its light mass and high tensile strength. Try buying something like that with three dollars sometime. Even a plain old frigate, at 250,000 ISK is a piece of military hardware that would cost something like 40 million dollars. Using that as a constant, unless my math skills have failed me badly, that means that a single ISK is worth something like 160 dollars. Still think the ships need to be made more expensive? That battleship doesn't cost $120,000,00, it costs $19,200,000,000. A megathron is worth about twenty billion real world monies, without modules. ISK ain't dollars. I dun da maffs dat pruve it. :D Ahh, but your math skills have failed you badly. 0.1 m^3 = 100,000 cm^3
Zirth Caldari The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:00:00 - [20] I should really just ignore your post... But, A dollar is about 116 japanese yen. Japanese people are not complaining stuff in America costs 116 times less either, because it doesn't. You can't compare isk and dollars 1:1. Further more there's also dreads, and carriers, that are large ships that are alot harder to take down, have powerful fighers and can dish out alot. A small fleet of repairing drones, without a way to self repair when they're dead, and only an increase of 3 times the current levels is just stupid. There's a great working system right now with which there's nothing wrong. You'd need huge ammounts of content adjusting, screwing over thousands of players that calculated ship setups, payed for them, invested in them and took them seriously. And you go change the entire drone and tanking system.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:08:00 - [21] Originally by: William Hamilton Originally by: Stitcher One thing - the ISK is not the dollar. InterStellar Kredits are just that - an interstellar trade standard designed for use on an industrial and macro-economic level. As such, the value of a single ISK is much higher than the dollar or the pound. Think about it: with three ISK, you can buy ten cubic centimeters of a material that can only be extracted from asteroids, is chemically unstable at atmospheric pressures, and is the primary construction material in starship hulls because of its light mass and high tensile strength. Try buying something like that with three dollars sometime. Even a plain old frigate, at 250,000 ISK is a piece of military hardware that would cost something like 40 million dollars. Using that as a constant, unless my math skills have failed me badly, that means that a single ISK is worth something like 160 dollars. Still think the ships need to be made more expensive? That battleship doesn't cost $120,000,00, it costs $19,200,000,000. A megathron is worth about twenty billion real world monies, without modules. ISK ain't dollars. I dun da maffs dat pruve it. :D Ahh, but your math skills have failed you badly. 0.1 m^3 = 100,000 cm^3 headsmack ... Seems like I always get volumes screwed up. ***
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Banana Torres Yeah, there comes a point in this game where ship loss is meaningless. I reached that point about a year ago and now I don't really care if my ship goes pop, there will be another waiting for me in the corp hanger. Talk to your industry and logistics guys :P The effort's still there, it's just that your corp is preventing you from being exposed to it. Even if you're making so much money you don't even need to think about it in purely economic terms, someone still has to get the minerals, build the ship and move it to your corp hangar so you can use it.
Malus NalJa'ka Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:16:00 - [23] Well my friend, you didn't think it through long enough ... "The rich get richer while the poor get poorer" comes to mind ... Disclaimer: Any spelling or grammatical errors are none of your business and/or made on purpose
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2007.03.08 13:23:00 - [24] So...basicly you want new players to have a harder time getting a BS and CCP to boost your existing BS? Since you can get a dread like snap that? I like it! How about on the same patch, they make the Omen the new uber expensive superduper ship...just 'cause i happen to fly one
Jackie Fisher Caldari Caldari Navy Support	Posted - 2007.03.08 14:58:00 - [25] You are are on very dodgy ground trying to compare Eve to RL warship costs. For startes nobody has built a battleship for c. 60 years so how can you compare the costs to current RL carriers? I'd also wager that when people were building battleships they were priced close to cruisers than they are in Eve. Caldari Navy Support
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:21:00 - [26] Originally by: zibelthurdos armor and hull rep modules should be limited to dedicated repair and logistics vessels. Hmm. I mean I largely disagree with you that battleships at their current costs are "less impressive", but I think the above line got passed up by many. And as much as I think RL to EVE comparisons are entirely ridiculous, for the sake of discussion I'm going to make one related to the quote above. In "RL", it's possible to perform at-sea repairs on vessels to a point. Engine damage, for instance. But major hull damage? Drydock time. Now I'm not suggesting that we all be forced to dock to repair our ships, but what's the harm in giving logistics a purpose? By far, they're the class of ships I see the least in this game, largely replaced by command ships and their bonuses. What if combat resulted in a certain amount of shield, armor, and hull damage that was unrepairable in space by repair modules on those ships, and could only be repaired in dock or by logistics ships? Maybe to do so would require some kind of supply (isotopes?) so suddenly being a roaming fleet meant you needed to maintain a logistics and supply chain to make sure your ships were kept in tip-top shape? Just some thoughts. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: Crydawner Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 Motherships coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 Dreadnoughts coming into an engagement. buy a titan? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 titans coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 MS coming into an engagement. ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Belloc Slunv Amarr CCCP INC	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Belloc Slunv on 08/03/2007 15:31:39 You guys got it wrong...It's 15USD to 150mil ISK. EDIT: Took out the ratio because I failed at math. (No, really..I did)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:47:00 - [29] Originally by: zibelthurdos crap ISK != $ 120M is a lot for some people, so STFU The affordibility and the commonality of any given ship class is going to increase over time as the number of players inceases and the number of richer/older characters increases. Thus to continually keep BSes as relatively rare ships, you have to cut them off from a progressively larger chunk of the new players. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.08 15:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Splagada Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: Crydawner Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: zibelthurdos Originally by: Crydawner buy a dreadnought? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 dreads coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 battleships coming into an engagement. buy a MS? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 Motherships coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 Dreadnoughts coming into an engagement. buy a titan? i could, easily. and that is my point. it shouldn't be that easy. if it weren't that easy you wouldn't have 14 or 15 titans coming into an engagement. instead you would have 14 or 15 MS coming into an engagement. Buy a mobile planet-destroying outpost? - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.

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