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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:02:00 -
[31]
And the majority of complaints I see in these forums,,, where apparently what people say is so crucial to the game,,, the secondary issue is a gameplay issue, where the *primary* issue is a bug. Like, corporation management issues, lag, firing from inside shields of POS,, that sort of stuff. The *result* is a gameplay issue, but the *cause* is technical.
And yes, it is rather impossible to say something like that rig pricing thing, because such statements only cause more forum whining because "Oh noes, CCP is going to completely change something, re-give me my isk and skillpoints and monies because I quit now"
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:03:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Akita T
Are we such horrible clients that we don't deserve regular updates ?[/b]
In a master stroke of true irony, I believe you may have hit upon the very answer to your own question.
C.
QFT. Customers are the *last* people to be listened to when it comes to,, well,, anything. I'd be incredibly rich if I had a dollar for every customer I've shot down who came to me thinking they knew how things should be run.
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Tom Shandy
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:06:00 -
[33]
any chance of stopping this dude from posting ?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:07:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/03/2007 01:05:02
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Akita T
Are we such horrible clients that we don't deserve regular updates ?
In a master stroke of true irony, I believe you may have hit upon the very answer to your own question.
There's a difference between men and sheep... some men question their leaders, sheep merely follow.
Originally by: Tom Shandy
any chance of stopping this dude from posting ?
Well, let's put it this way... the day I'd stop posting in here "whining" (as some people would put it) would be the day before I hit "cancel subscription", and I wouldn't post any "I quit" threads before it expires... because that day would have been the day I stopped caring.
The only other way would be to have everything work perfectly, which can't possibly happend.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Customers are the *last* people to be listened to when it comes to,, well,, anything. I'd be incredibly rich if I had a dollar for every customer I've shot down who came to me thinking they knew how things should be run.
Well, you're neither in the house building industry nor a chef. I sure hope you're not a tattoo artist either.
-
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Cailais
Amarr
Domus Fatalis
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:48:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Cailais on 09/03/2007 01:45:50
Originally by: Akita T
There's a difference between men and sheep... some men question their leaders, sheep merely follow.
My point being (nothing about sheep - I havent mentioned them..yet) is that:
1. The tone, nature and attitude of the questions being asked by these 'men' to thier 'leaders' is one that is often so petulant, childish, arrogant, rude and hostile that-
2. The leaders feel disenclined to answer.
& I don't blame them.
C.
www.sefrim.com - sig design - eve mail for details
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cailais
The tone, nature and attitude of the questions being asked by these 'men' to thier 'leaders' is one that is often so petulant, childish, arrogant, rude and hostile that the leaders feel disenclined to answer.
Well, after you go a few weeks or even months without a single response questions regarding a certain issue, or the situation remains unchanged long after a "we'll look into it" and nothing more type of answer is given, you'd kind of tend to be a bit less polite in how you phrase your next complaints.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Customers are the *last* people to be listened to when it comes to,, well,, anything. I'd be incredibly rich if I had a dollar for every customer I've shot down who came to me thinking they knew how things should be run.
And you do that to each and every client, INCLUDING those that come to you with actual issues that require your response ?
I'd hate to be YOUR client.
I love your comprehension there: Allow me to make it easier
Customer I've shot down:
Customer: You should do it this way because of this this and this now dont tell me otherwise.
Myself: bugger off
Client reporting a problem:
Customer: This is a problem, what's wrong?
Myself: Ah, yep, I can see whats wrong. Let me fix it,,,, Done.
OR:
Myself: Hmm,, that's a tricky problem, we've got a couple solutions, here's your options
The bolded part being irellevant to CCP, since this is *their* product, not ours. It's *not* the clients place to be explicitly telling CCP how to implement gameplay features. If it was we'd have intellectual property rights over their software. I'm sure lots of people would love Arkonor in High sec, in fact, judging by the population of empire vs low/0.0 sec, it'd be welcomed by the majority,, but it doesnt get done because it's CCPs call.
And once again I'll iterate. It's not our place to tell CCP to implement gameplay features, but it is our place to report bugs. Bugs *cause* gameplay problems, and these bugs arent necessarily easily fixable without breaking other game aspects. Bugs *do* involve technobabble, and it's BAD PR to swamp customers with that sort of stuff.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:06:00 -
[39]
EVE needs more documentation so I can yell "RTFM" at people 
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Cailais
Amarr
Domus Fatalis
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cailais
The tone, nature and attitude of the questions being asked by these 'men' to thier 'leaders' is one that is often so petulant, childish, arrogant, rude and hostile that the leaders feel disenclined to answer.
Well, after you go a few weeks or even months without a single response questions regarding a certain issue, or the situation remains unchanged long after a "we'll look into it" and nothing more type of answer is given, you'd kind of tend to be a bit less polite in how you phrase your next complaints.
I can understand that. Yes, it can be frustrating, but being impolite is likely to be counter productive.
I make the general assumption that the same arguments touted here in the forums ('solution vs solution' - 'this the the priority - no this is!') occur within CCP.
Working on that assumption, multiplied by all the potential problems a organisation faces as routine and the 'why' starts to become self evident. Is that an excuse? I've no idea as I don't work for CCP, perhaps they dont care / are down the pub, perhaps not. What I am certain of is that screaming might get me what I want, but it will be given in exasperation and frustration just to shut me up, in the equally certain knowledge that the next scream is about to come moments later. (think tantrum throwing toddlers)
-On that basis, yeah theyre probably down the pub.
C.
www.sefrim.com - sig design - eve mail for details
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:45:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE needs more documentation so I can yell "RTFM" at people
QFT
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If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Karinith
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE needs more documentation so I can yell "RTFM" at people
That's a hell of an understatement. EVE needed more documentation 2-3 years ago. Just look at the item database on the main site. 3 months later and the stuff introduced by Revelations patch is still not published on the item database. Not to mention that there are virtually no guides or manuals for like 90% of the game's functionality.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Karinith
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE needs more documentation so I can yell "RTFM" at people
That's a hell of an understatement. EVE needed more documentation 2-3 years ago. Just look at the item database on the main site. 3 months later and the stuff introduced by Revelations patch is still not published on the item database. Not to mention that there are virtually no guides or manuals for like 90% of the game's functionality.
No manual could communicate the depth of understanding required to use any of it anyway.
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If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:35:00 -
[44]
/signed OP
It's incredibly frustrating to many people. Flamers can all go die somewhere.
A lot of people aren't just interested in slapping on a MWD and some nano(?) and chasing people around going "pew pew pew".
If you're not interested in this, seems CCP doesn't like you.
List of modules not working that I've found:
Targetting computer.
ECM Drones.
Repair Drones.
Target painter drones.
Sensor Dampener Drones.
If we could get a fix time on some of this stuff (multiple patches have passed without them being looked at) that would be great.
Also: I put a petition in a number of weeks ago for a phantom R&D job that is taking up a queue slot for me but doesn't appear. Still no answer.
RR.
CEO Venture Research and Resources.
VRR Homepage |
Karinith
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Karinith
Originally by: Dark Shikari
EVE needs more documentation so I can yell "RTFM" at people
That's a hell of an understatement. EVE needed more documentation 2-3 years ago. Just look at the item database on the main site. 3 months later and the stuff introduced by Revelations patch is still not published on the item database. Not to mention that there are virtually no guides or manuals for like 90% of the game's functionality.
No manual could communicate the depth of understanding required to use any of it anyway.
Bull****. What documentation do we have regarding logoff timers, how carriers work, drone mods, the contract system, corp and alliance management, etc.
It would not be an impossible job to do had CCP properly maintained documentation from the beginning. Now they have a huge snowball of crap that needs to be written down that'll take a large team lots of time and lots of money to do.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Akita T
So many "why" questions, not a single answer.
"Because we don't have the time", "something else is more important", "it works anyway" or "we just don't care enough" are NOT answers.
Not acceptable ones anyway.
Why isn't the truth acceptable? CCP is in the business of making money. They make money despite these shortcomings, so until you addicts decide to let your wallets speak, they have no incentive to work harder for you. It's really simple.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Why isn't the truth acceptable? CCP is in the business of making money. They make money despite these shortcomings, so until you addicts decide to let your wallets speak, they have no incentive to work harder for you. It's really simple.
It's true. But the game has too many cool points, I would really prefer it didn't come to that. If the only way to make a point is to stop playing, everybody loses. no?
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Akita T
It's a "constructive criticism".
It boils down to "talk to us more".
They are bob alts, duh!
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Karinith
It would not be an impossible job to do had CCP properly maintained documentation from the beginning. Now they have a huge snowball of crap that needs to be written down that'll take a large team lots of time and lots of money to do.
Ever played Alpha Centauri? The mechanics of that game are relatively simple compared to EVE, and it's manual was 200 pages.
I'd anticipate an EVE manual to take over 300 standard pages. Your everyday noob is going to give that the big finger. It's a lot better for the players to learn off each other after the handful of tutorials guide you into the early stages of the game.
Quote:
It's true. But the game has too many cool points, I would really prefer it didn't come to that. If the only way to make a point is to stop playing, everybody loses. no?
^^ Exactly. I'm tired of peoples rants about how their eve life has come crashing down due to a couple bugs or problems. It's not difficult to work around these things in a way that doesnt adversely affect your playing style. So many people knock their head against a wall before realising they can just walk around it.
I mean,, the bug which causes missiles to not do any damage while your ship is aligning for warp is a pain, but it's not the be all end all of my career being a missle-***** and all.
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Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:59:00 -
[50]
The top leaders in BoB 100 percent knew about this cheating long before. It is impossible for someone not to discuss what they did to their corp leaders after so many months. Id say bob leaders are more at fault than the actual person who stole the bpo, because they knew about it.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 04:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nim9i5
BoB [...] cheating
This is not a thread discussing incidents already addressed many times before in the recent past.
It's over, new internal rules and regulations are supposedly in place to prevent that from happening again, damage was contained as well as it could have been expected to be... just get over it.
This is thread about the myriad issues that don't have anything to do with "person X doing this and that", issues about gameplay, lack of documentation, incorrect description, old bugs that were never fixed or keep cropping up again, about insufficient communication in general, about issues that are either ignored or downplayed regardless of the number of people asking about them on a regular basis.
Keep thread on-topic, please.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Wrayeth
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.03.09 04:28:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 09/03/2007 04:25:40
I've been trying to find a way to open a dialogue with anyone on the CCP staff about game balance for a long time. The game just isn't fun anymore, and there are some serious issues that need addressing. Unfortunately, I've had no luck in my endeavor, so now I often don't even bother logging on...and when I do, I spend at least 75% of my online time utilizing EVE as a glorified pay-subscription chat service.
-sigh-
This is what I hate about online games (and real life, for that matter) - it's impossible to open a dialogue with anyone in a position to get things done. You just have to put up or shut up, and I, frankly, am just tired of it.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
As well
Train
Another
Race |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 05:06:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Wrayeth
I've been trying to find a way to open a dialogue with anyone on the CCP staff about game balance for a long time. The game just isn't fun anymore, and there are some serious issues that need addressing. Unfortunately, I've had no luck in my endeavor, so now I often don't even bother logging on...and when I do, I spend at least 75% of my online time utilizing EVE as a glorified pay-subscription chat service.
[...]
it's impossible to open a dialogue with anyone in a position to get things done. You just have to put up or shut up, and I, frankly, am just burnt out by it.
You, me, and a good deal of other "above average lifespan" subscribers.
What was it last time, 7 or 9 months average account lifespan ?
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Pudgy McFudge
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Posted - 2007.03.09 07:59:00 -
[54]
Eve is a giant friggin complicated mess. Its full of loop holes and problems and flaws. You do the best you can to filter out the misinformation and you adapt and struggle to thrive. Just when you think you got it all figured out things go and change and you fall in the mud. Then you kinda cry and pout and pity yourself for a second. You look around and you see people continuing, if not as easily and seamlessly as before, to do what they have always tried to do and you say to yourself, "No one is going to help me up." So you just get back out there and do it. You adapt and you struggle to thrive. You are not all powerful and no one owes you anything you dont already have. There are people who dont need you and there are people you dont need and more often than not never the twain shall meet.
Roads have pot holes.
If the united states switched over to the metric system before they fixed all the pot holes in the roads people would whine and moan and groan, but no one would commit suicide because honestly, it's not that serious.
I haven't been playing since release. I'm not all that serious and i almost never post on these forums. However, i have played a few MMOGs. I will never forget the day that i petitioned CCP because i lost my ferox due to a graphics bug and a few days later i got a very polite response and my ship back. You see, CCP tries and they are trying. However this thing they have created and you are paying them to take part in is far more intricate and comlicated than most of us are willing to try to understand. Eve is so complicated it is pobably the most lifelike MMOG available and I dont think any other company has the guts to try to top this game. I'm glad i found this game and it's worth every penny of my subscription, sunny or not. I stay out of the grocery store on suday morning and i stay out of Jita. I dont go into bad neighborhoods with a bunch of jewelry on and i dont fly a hauler in low sec (without stabs but you get the idea).
The largest and most intricate virtual playground on the internet and you are complaining about typos?
The world isnt perfect and it isnt fair and neither is Eve, but they are bothing doing the same thing...
...changing.
P.S. TYPOS???
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.09 08:11:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Angellyne
Yep, kind of amazing if you think about it, seeing some of the simple little typos and things in a game this old  .
You can't tell me it would take a developer more than 5 minutes to fix an item description. It's not code, it's plain text editing. That's about 80 little corrections in an 8-hour day, assuming an hour to drink your lunch. 
It's that kind of gung-ho 'privateer' attitude that screws up large, team-based projects. Teams have to work together and they have to stick to agreed, assigned tasks. It's just unfortunate that when people on such a project sit down to agree on tasks they choose the most important ones first.
In practice changing spelling mistakes is usually okay but it's still a dangerous path for a developer to start down on.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.09 08:14:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Andrue on 09/03/2007 08:10:48
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Akita T
Are we such horrible clients that we don't deserve regular updates ?
In a master stroke of true irony, I believe you may have hit upon the very answer to your own question.
C.
QFT. Customers are the *last* people to be listened to when it comes to,, well,, anything. I'd be incredibly rich if I had a dollar for every customer I've shot down who came to me thinking they knew how things should be run.
I wouldn't go that far. Customer feedback and interaction can be very useful but it always has to be run through a filter and customer suggestions should be treated as nothing more than that. Developing software requires the ability to spot underlying, fundamental designs and customers rarely see them and have little ability to predict them.
It's not restricted to software of course. Plumbers, electricians etc. probably have the same problem. The customer just says "I want a tap here and a toilet here" and it's up to the plumber to work out the best way to lay pipes and how to adhere to planning regulations.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature.[/b] |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.03.09 09:13:00 -
[57]
Fear....
Its the same in any MMO. The more they post the greater the expectations of the playerbase. If you disappoint your playerbase to many times, you end up hurting yourself. So like with most MMOs they just don't post a lot on issues they don't hold dear to themselves.
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Nero Ya'ng
Caldari
YaFa Empires
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Posted - 2007.03.09 09:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kylania
... CCP talks to us quite lot really, more than some of my family does to me!
...
u spend to much time online tbh :P
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Sgt Blade
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 09:29:00 -
[59]
atleast the devs write a blog now and then and we have many poeple who work for ccp who post on the forums....
last i heard from a mate was that WoW players only get messages from the devs when they are gettin a patch.... and all that includes is "patch day on XX/XX/XXXX"
so im pretty sure ccp 'talk' to us more then most games if not all all games out there atm
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr Navy Runners
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Posted - 2007.03.09 09:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Valeo Galaem
There have been 442 dev blogs since the game went live in May of 2003, almost 4 years ago...
Thats over 2 dev blogs per week!!! Not to mention the frequent involvement in player discussions and feedback.
Dev blogs with plans and intentions don't mean a lot to me without even a hint at a timeframe for them. I jumped for joy over the Amarr blog but have yet to hear about even a minute change on the test server. Yay, a rolechange for the Apoc, not even a hint at what role he's leaning towards, we're just left guessing and calling eachother names over it in Ships and Modules.
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