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RC Denton
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:26:00 -
[1]
So I don't really get what the point of being able walk around in a station and why CCP is so thrilled about it. I'm assuming that there will be additional things to do when walking around in a station, but.....I got into EvE because it's one of the only MMOs actually set in space. The only other one that has anything like it is JTL in SWG and that's a very distant second. So why move away from what I see as the major draw of the game, life in space? I don't want another planet based MMO, it doesnt' excite me to be able to walk around in stations. There's several other games out there that let you do that, and yet I'm playing EvE.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:30:00 -
[2]
Ambulation, or "In-station interaction" will be separate from "EVE in space" (not even on same nodes), and will be completely optional (you don't HAVE to do it to acheive anything for "EVE in space").
One of the major reasons for the developement of the "technology" however comes from the WhiteWolf merger and intention to create a WW-universe-themed separate MMORPG (not having anything to do with EVE) using the same graphic engine. So, really, it's just a bonus, nothing more. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Chewan Mesa
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:33:00 -
[3]
Its nice to socialize in a different way than eve so far did not provide, its some more eye candy, that as it wont influence EVE itself negatively, is something shiny to enjoy, or not if you dont like it.
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RC Denton
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T Ambulation, or "In-station interaction" will be separate from "EVE in space" (not even on same nodes), and will be completely optional (you don't HAVE to do it to acheive anything for "EVE in space").
One of the major reasons for the developement of the "technology" however comes from the WhiteWolf merger and intention to create a WW-universe-themed separate MMORPG (not having anything to do with EVE) using the same graphic engine. So, really, it's just a bonus, nothing more.
Well I guess my major point is why are they spending a great deal of scarce development resources on it instead of the Core game. If you read the writeup about the interview it states that resources that could have been allocated to smartening up the NPCs goes to ambulation which since it is just eye candy mostly seems like a waste to me.
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DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 09/03/2007 00:38:07
Quote: Well I guess my major point is why are they spending a great deal of scarce development resources on it instead of the Core game
Because ultimately it will become part of the core game...
You think space MMO's of the future will have only one setting? WRONG!
Space-Space Station-Planets
Why should EVE not be the first?
Building the homestead
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Solitaire Guillaume
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:45:00 -
[6]
This has been answered a million times, man: They are not 'squandering scant resources' on this project. They have an entire dev team that is working on it - they aren't gonna throw their station artists out the door, down the hall to help code the game, are they? CCP makes plenty of $$ so let them spend it how they want, they are enriching the gaming experience and anyone who can't see that is really quite short-sighted --- Todd C. I Feel Renewed Already |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: RC Denton ...is just eye candy mostly...
Yeah but have you seen that eye candy? Pretty slick looking stuff. Sorry but walking up next to my Zealot (as shown towards the end of the linked vid) is just too cool. May not achieve much but one thing I always missed in EVE was a proper sense of scale. As big as planets are they are too small. As big as stations are they are too small. Flying in my ceptor feels like a fighter jet when in fact it is much, much larger. If nothing else this will help with the immersion factor of being "in" the EVE Universe and I do not see that as a bad thing.
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Toros Revoke
STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:13:00 -
[8]
And I want to see if I really am wearing a bathrobe, if so, I hope goes all the way down.
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Moraguth
Amarr Rangers
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:13:00 -
[9]
Just because you (and hundreds like you) don't want it does NOT mean that me (and hundreds like me) don't want it too.
good game |
Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:14:00 -
[10]
If you don't want to walk around in stations you don't have to. CCP has been quite clear that it will be completely voluntarily and you won't be forced to do it if you don't want to. But they have set a goal of expanding on EVE and creating a huge variety of layers to the game to make it one of the most dynamic and amazing experiences around. You may not like that goal, but that's the goal none-the-less. Ambulation is the first step in creating a multi-layered MMO, and that's what they want.
I know a lot of players wish EVE never changed, and many complain about it not being the same as when they first started. But if EVE and CCP didn't continue to evolve, the game would become stagnant and it would come to an end. CCP would go out of business because it is not one division in a giant corporation that can keep an MMO running despite a dwindling subscriber base. There's a core of hardcore gamers who'd be happy to play the same game, with no changes ever, for years and years. But they are not enought to keep the game running. The majority of EVE players are not like that, and in order to keep attracting new subscribers the game has to grow, diversify, and keep pace with all the new technology that develops and the other MMOs that come out.
Take Pirates of the Burning Sea or Star Trek Online. Both of those are new games that will be blending third-person typical MMOs with ship combat. Yes, Pirates is with cannon-ships and Star Trek is a different universe, but those are just examples of how new MMOs are starting to introduce multi-layered MMOs instead of just the typical third-person raid/quest MMOs out there. They are the next generation and if EVE does not keep pace, it will become outdated and it will die. That's just the way it works, sorry. ----------------------------------------------------
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Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:28:00 -
[11]
I'm interested in ambulation just to see what my characters look like in whole - hopefully they're as I imagine them, that'd be nice.
Although do you have any say in it? Like if they're tall, short, wide, thin, etc? Just curious. ] |
Synapse Archae
Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:36:00 -
[12]
Its very simple, really. The technology was already being developed for the new MMO CCP is building for white wolf. They needed a test environment for walking avatars to be put into that game. Since it was already going to be done and would benefit from being practiced once, they put it into eve.
There are in fact more resources being spent on eve, not less, because otherwise those programmers and artists would be working on the white wolf MMO and not eve. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor. |
Solitaire Guillaume
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jex Jast I'm interested in ambulation just to see what my characters look like in whole - hopefully they're as I imagine them, that'd be nice.
Although do you have any say in it? Like if they're tall, short, wide, thin, etc? Just curious.
Kieron mentioned to me that players will indeed remake their avatars along with clothing selection. He also bounced around the idea that your avie could "eat too much" and so gain weight/be fat and have to do something to lose that weight. More to come in my article - when I get a chance to write it, gotta go party with CCP first downtown S.F.! I Feel Renewed Already |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:02:00 -
[14]
I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jex Jast I'm interested in ambulation just to see what my characters look like in whole - hopefully they're as I imagine them, that'd be nice.
Maybe you missed my Linkage earlier in this thread. Give you an idea of what the whole thing looks like (streaming movie). Pretty slick I think.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:13:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Humpalot on 09/03/2007 02:09:21
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
Yeah, that would be cool. Have a few people on a list for this.
Hell...I'd be thrilled if I could just look out a window to see if those gankers are sitting there waiting for me.
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Ket Halpak
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
+ 1 level to vocabulary, I endorse this statement.
I like the idea of being able to hold a corp meeting and having everyone located in the corp office and watching a speaker and the suchlike. The higherups in a corp usually devote more of their gametime to organising stuff and spend a lot of time looking at their ship in station, so it would be nice to have some new scenery to stare at!
____________________________________Any views expressed in the above post are my own and not those of my corp unless otherwise stated as such. If you are reading the above post, the |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ket Halpak
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
+ 1 level to vocabulary, I endorse this statement.
Speaking of which, the best two-word phrase ever is "spontaneous autodefenestration". Like this, for example.
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:47:00 -
[19]
Because because because because becaaaaaause
Because of the wonderful things he does -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Ket Halpak
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 02:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Ket Halpak
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
+ 1 level to vocabulary, I endorse this statement.
Speaking of which, the best two-word phrase ever is "spontaneous autodefenestration". Like this, for example.
I see a possiblity of simulating a real bar with this. CCP should make the avatars a little tipsy after consuming too much spiced wine the bartender can defenstrate my ass.
____________________________________Any views expressed in the above post are my own and not those of my corp unless otherwise stated as such. If you are reading the above post, the |
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Neon Genesis
Gallente The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:13:00 -
[21]
They have said it will never be a timesink, so relax, if you don't want to partake then it won't effect you.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:24:00 -
[22]
If I had a million isk for every person I've heard say "I'd play Eve if you could get out of your ship and actually see your character" I'd be a rich man - and these aren't people avoiding the game because it's too complex, they're people avoiding the game because there aren't enough social tools. Given that Eve gets the tech pretty much free (as it's needed for WoD anyway), the effort that'll be expended to allow all these extra socially-minded players into the game is well worth it IMO, as they're exactly the sort of people that will be good for the game.
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Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:44:00 -
[23]
Don't get me wrong, the eye candy looks fabu here, but I'd really like it if they could also spare some time to address glitches that have been in the game from the very start. New content is good but fixing existing content is also good.
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Crydawner
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius If I had a million isk for every person I've heard say "I'd play Eve if you could get out of your ship and actually see your character" I'd be a rich man - and these aren't people avoiding the game because it's too complex, they're people avoiding the game because there aren't enough social tools. Given that Eve gets the tech pretty much free (as it's needed for WoD anyway), the effort that'll be expended to allow all these extra socially-minded players into the game is well worth it IMO, as they're exactly the sort of people that will be good for the game.
+1 :)
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Yendri
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
won't that also involve depressurisation of the station, however? :)
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maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.09 12:57:00 -
[26]
Could bring a whole new perspective to the game.
Assaults on stations, gun fights, Assinations, like go get those pirates that hide in NPC stations.
It opens up a world of new game play to the game and brings the immersion level to a new high.
I personally can't wait.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 13:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jollyreaper Don't get me wrong, the eye candy looks fabu here, but I'd really like it if they could also spare some time to address glitches that have been in the game from the very start. New content is good but fixing existing content is also good.
which is why they're doing both.
The team hired to do the walking in stations project was hired specifically for the job. Their presence does not take manpower and resource away from the bug-hunters and the guys responsible for fixing up the game's issues.
in other words, it's not a question of "sparing time" - CCP are sufficiently large to be able to hire multiple teams to work on multiple projects at the same time. ***
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Cavy Dan
Gallente Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.03.09 13:17:00 -
[28]
My Avatar mus have a tight, metallic bodysuit, so I can show off my Gallente Manliness. ----------------------------------------------- My Band's new Demo: Linkage to Site |
Jaggeh
Gallente Furious Angels
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Posted - 2007.03.09 14:20:00 -
[29]
i endorse WIS on the grounds that i can A) Defenestrate people (thanks DS) B) jimmy open your ship with a crowbar and steal your rigs C) kill you and use a spoon to remove your implants.
That is all --------------------------------------- Furious Angels are recruiting Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:12:00 -
[30]
I wish people would bloody read the threads before posting in them
For the last time:
CCP are NOT taking resources away from other areas of EVE development to do this. The team working on it are completely new, and were hired for the specific purpose of creating the WIS functionality. ***
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: BoBoZoBo It show me that they are using EVEtime to develop content for OTHER games... not cool IMHO.
Or you can look at it from the other side and say that, given that they need the tech anyway for the WoD game, they're using WoD time to develop content for Eve, no?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: BoBoZoBo It show me that they are using EVEtime to develop content for OTHER games... not cool IMHO.
Or you can look at it from the other side and say that, given that they need the tech anyway for the WoD game, they're using WoD time to develop content for Eve, no?
But then what would they whine about?
...walking in stations, whoa oh... -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Asestorian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:59:00 -
[33]
Walking in Stations is cool.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is cool.
---
---
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.09 17:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Asestorian Walking in Stations is cool.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is not using up valuable resources from other parts of EVE.
Walking in Stations is optional. You don't have to get out your ship if you don't want to.
Walking in Stations is cool.
He lies. Lies!
Walking in Stations's artists could be fixing bugs for main Eve content! Walking in Station's bugfixers could be doing art for main Eve content! Walking in Statios not optional!1 Walking instations cool, therefore must see it, therefore have to do it to see it, therefore not optional, therefore UNCOOL! Therefore don't have to see it, therefore is ok, cool. But therefore must see it, so unCOOl! um yeah
...
!
...
I hope by posting this astounding logic as a token whine I have made redundant the need for any anti-ambulation posters to respond to the above quoted completely correct points. -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.03.09 18:19:00 -
[35]
What about those people whose's avatars are just floating heads? It was the Jin-Mei males I think, a brief bug let them create an avatar without a body.
Would be a touch weird to just see disembodied heads floating around in stations. ---
Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
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Garonis
Caldari Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.03.09 19:30:00 -
[36]
I'm sorry, how can getting out of your pod, and going to your corp's office and having a simulated beer with your buddies after a successful op NOT be cool? It's already been stated that the WIS will not detract from in space EVE. It's already been stated that it would be voluntary. I personally love the idea, with one caviat... IF they enact WIS and a combat system, will we start to see twitch kiddies running around the station yelling LOLOLOL I PWNZD J00 n00b! LOLOL 111!!!!!!! eleventy eleven!!
That would be a detraction, thats the worst thing I could think of. This is my sig ^^ |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.03.09 20:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Garonis IF they enact WIS and a combat system, will we start to see twitch kiddies running around the station yelling LOLOLOL I PWNZD J00 n00b! LOLOL 111!!!!!!! eleventy eleven!!
Thus you get your corpmates in station, grab a bunch of energy shotguns, and gank that noob.
Since he's out of pod, he shouldn't jump to his new clone, right?
Which is why I doubt they'll have a combat system...they'd need a hell of a coverstory to keep everyone alive.
Or maybe they'll just do some implant thing. In which case they'd probably give you the implants for free so as not to cause more whining. ] |
RC Denton
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Posted - 2007.03.09 20:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Stitcher I wish people would bloody read the threads before posting in them
For the last time:
CCP are NOT taking resources away from other areas of EVE development to do this. The team working on it are completely new, and were hired for the specific purpose of creating the WIS functionality.
I would invite you to do the same. Here is the full paragraph as an excerpt from the interview with Magnus Bergson the CMO of CCP:
"The game's AI and encounters have remained largely static since launch, with NPCs reacting in a fairly dumb way. However recently several developers mentioned changes to the AI system of the game, when can we expect to see these changes? Unfortunately, the NPCs currently in space won't be "educated" any time in the near future. While these changes are looked for, Mangus stated unequivocally that they'd be spending their time putting their energies into the NPCs on the stations for the Ambulation Project; touching those in space would require a change to the core code of the game and they avoid this whenever possible. It simply comes down to resource allocation and they see a richer game experience occurring by creating depth in the Ambulation Project then by touching the older content due to time constraints. "
My reading never advanced past the third grade level but using the term "resource allocation" to explain why we will be able to walk around in a station with admitedly no impact to the actual game vs increasing the "smartness" of NPC rats seems to me to be saying "we've allocated resources that could have been used on making the NPCs smarter into allowing you to walk around the station". I don't have anything specifically against walking around in the station, but I do have problems with them forgoing addressing a core system issue (stupid rats) to put in eye candy and I'm using this forum to express my opinion to CCP and the player base.
Cool sig btw. Galaxy Quest ftw.
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 21:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: RC Denton I don't have anything specifically against walking around in the station, but I do have problems with them forgoing addressing a core system issue (stupid rats) to put in eye candy and I'm using this forum to express my opinion to CCP and the player base.
How big a priority is npc AI? Everyone keeps hitting each other over the head with the notion that "Eve is a PVP game". Avatars give players more options for interactions. Since the "real game" is against other players, I can see why avatar development has a higher priority than npc AI. Station environments should facilitate all sorts of player actions, from socializing to strategizing to scamming.
I don't see how smarter rat AI will improve pvp.
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Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.09 21:47:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Marquis Dean What about those people whose's avatars are just floating heads? It was the Jin-Mei males I think, a brief bug let them create an avatar without a body.
Would be a touch weird to just see disembodied heads floating around in stations.
*WAVES*
My avatar sometimes renders without a torso. If it continues to do so, I demand CCP let me change my character name to Phantom Torso! And I'll name my corporation the Guild of Clamatious Indent.
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.09 22:07:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Stitcher I wish people would bloody read the threads before posting in them
For the last time:
CCP are NOT taking resources away from other areas of EVE development to do this. The team working on it are completely new, and were hired for the specific purpose of creating the WIS functionality.
Yesh.. but there is only so much attention one can give to something.
Unless they are doubling the number of chiefs and CEOs there as well =========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
Heraklitus Nomidzon
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.09 23:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
rofl, agreed.
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samkeir
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Posted - 2007.03.10 00:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: RC Denton So I don't really get what the point of being able walk around in a station and why CCP is so thrilled about it.
Because it doesn't require any game-balncing effort, looks pretty and won't fk up everything else. Ultimately it's just eye-candy: so it won't need loads of effort balancing but looks "pretty" when they sell it externally. Sure, they could assing the resources ti fixing the problems with big-fleet combat - but that;s hard work and only satisfies people who are already playing. Attraacting new player is FAR more important - why make the game smooth for people who are already committed to paying $ per mothy when you can attract new people?
the latest blog on the subject confirms this perspective - full of good-motives about making large-fleet combat better but tottlay and utterly lacking in detaail of how that will be acheived. Yes - knowing that the developers are aware of the fact that large-scale combat is totally broke nis nice, but some plan to fix it would be nice. Instead we get platitudes, a commitment NOT to introduce faction warfare (a horribly misguide diea - no complaaints there) and a load of BS about how the game needs to be made tio work properly - with no info on how that is going to be acheived. Oh, and demos of how new lag-inducing graphics will be implemented.
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Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.10 00:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: RC Denton So I don't really get what the point of being able walk around in a station and why CCP is so thrilled about it.
Because all our Wives will join when they can see their pretty avatars and spend all their time having tea in stations.
All the men can go out and have real fleet battles, all the wives will stay in station looking pretty and chat, and they won't bother us to come to bed at 10:00 PM. CCP gets twice the subscription, the players can PvP in peace without wife aggro, and the wives are happy because they can chat with the other pretty characters in the stations. ----- /ash Fancy Sigs are for Fancy People |
Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.03.10 00:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ash Vincetti
Originally by: RC Denton So I don't really get what the point of being able walk around in a station and why CCP is so thrilled about it.
Because all our Wives will join when they can see their pretty avatars and spend all their time having tea in stations.
All the men can go out and have real fleet battles, all the wives will stay in station looking pretty and chat, and they won't bother us to come to bed at 10:00 PM. CCP gets twice the subscription, the players can PvP in peace without wife aggro, and the wives are happy because they can chat with the other pretty characters in the stations.
This is the only reason I am for the ambulation project. My wife has specifically stated that she would play if she could see her character and 'not be stuck in a little pretend spaceship all the time'.
So imo.. GO AMBULATION!
-=^=-
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:00:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Soporo on 10/03/2007 01:02:35 It'll be fine...as long as there arent any retarded EMOTES, or RINGS, or DANCING, or MARRIAGE...
As for the allocation...no idea, but for sure there was plenty of money spent/spending on it, that could theoretically have been spent elsewhere...
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Toros Revoke And I want to see if I really am wearing a bathrobe, if so, I hope goes all the way down.
lmao! i hope this char (doesnt) wear anything at all
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: RC Denton "The game's AI and encounters have remained largely static since launch, with NPCs reacting in a fairly dumb way. However recently several developers mentioned changes to the AI system of the game, when can we expect to see these changes? Unfortunately, the NPCs currently in space won't be "educated" any time in the near future. While these changes are looked for, Mangus stated unequivocally that they'd be spending their time putting their energies into the NPCs on the stations for the Ambulation Project; touching those in space would require a change to the core code of the game and they avoid this whenever possible. It simply comes down to resource allocation and they see a richer game experience occurring by creating depth in the Ambulation Project then by touching the older content due to time constraints.
I'm afraid this doesn't actually invalidate my point, despite what you may think.
Why? Because the people involved in creating Ambulation will be animators, modellers, mappers and texturers - all very different schools of creation to AI coding. AI coders do not do in-station animations, modelling and design, nor do animators, modellers and designers program artificial intelligences. the two are basically incompatible.
As such, the people working on the WIS project WILL be a different team working on different aspects of the game. Their operation on that project will have no bearing on code-related aspects of the game (bug-fixing, AI, etc) because they aren't coders.
Now, I won't speculate as to where those designers might have gone. The point is that any re-allocation of resources was minor at best ***
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Calprimus
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Billy Sastard
Originally by: Ash Vincetti
Originally by: RC Denton So I don't really get what the point of being able walk around in a station and why CCP is so thrilled about it.
Because all our Wives will join when they can see their pretty avatars and spend all their time having tea in stations.
All the men can go out and have real fleet battles, all the wives will stay in station looking pretty and chat, and they won't bother us to come to bed at 10:00 PM. CCP gets twice the subscription, the players can PvP in peace without wife aggro, and the wives are happy because they can chat with the other pretty characters in the stations.
This is the only reason I am for the ambulation project. My wife has specifically stated that she would play if she could see her character and 'not be stuck in a little pretend spaceship all the time'.
So imo.. GO AMBULATION!
Same as mine, and in addition, she would like the option to craft cloths and uniforms.
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Viruz Chu
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jaggeh i endorse WIS on the grounds that i can A) Defenestrate people (thanks DS) B) jimmy open your ship with a crowbar and steal your rigs C) kill you and use a spoon to remove your implants.
That is all
you want to open a ship with a crowbar? thats like trying to break into fort Knox with a toothpick..
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Viruz Chu
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Posted - 2007.03.10 01:22:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jaggeh i endorse WIS on the grounds that i can A) Defenestrate people (thanks DS) B) jimmy open your ship with a crowbar and steal your rigs C) kill you and use a spoon to remove your implants.
That is all
you want to open a ship with a crowbar? thats like trying to break into fort Knox with a toothpick..
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Chimu Quien
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Posted - 2007.03.10 02:09:00 -
[52]
Ambulation.
How utterly pointless.
*yawn*
ZZzzzzzzzzz.....
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The Fates
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.03.10 02:22:00 -
[53]
I can't see how this would be any worse than any of the other changes coming.
Originally by: Sun Tzu In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.03.10 02:36:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Chimu Quien Ambulation.
How utterly pointless.
*yawn*
ZZzzzzzzzzz.....
I'm simply going to paste from my post in one of the other threads on this subject, referring to the meeting features hinted at in the video.
Quote: I can think off the top of my head any number of ways that this can be used as a tool to create more player interaction in EVE; for example, if this in the game, along with integrated voice... how about face to face meetings between leaders of different corps? You not only have speech at your disposal, but you could also easily have body language and other similar channels of communication.
That would be a very powerful tool for negotiations and would, in my opinion, make the entire thing worth it. EVE is about more than flying around and blowing things up.
Visualize this: Simply EVEmail or private convo the leader of another alliance/faction, and say "meet us at (insert neutral system) at 1800 EVE time". You fly to the station, and go to a conference room reserved for you, or an office you have there, or whatever. They show up; you can talk immediately, you have direct in-game control over who is there, and no fiddling with third party out-of-game programs. Advanced social interaction that is as easy as forming a gang.
But no, you just see shiney things and people walking. In other words, some of you people simply have little or no imagination.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.10 02:39:00 -
[55]
Flying spaceships.
How utterly pointless.
*yawn*
ZZzzzzzzzzz..... -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
RaWBLooD
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Posted - 2007.03.10 02:59:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Flying spaceships.
How utterly pointless.
*yawn*
ZZzzzzzzzzz.....
ya lets go throw fireballs at goblins and use our sword skills to smash titan golems
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Decrepus
Raiders of the Lost Cans
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Posted - 2007.03.10 04:49:00 -
[57]
They made me a capusuleer because I am a detriment to everyone I come in physical contact with.
I do not welcome this feature.
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Tonkin
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.10 04:57:00 -
[58]
all you will be able to do is walk around. if they introduce comabat into it, thats when u start destroying the space theme.
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Freelanc3r
Caldari Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.10 05:28:00 -
[59]
To make being camped in station more interesting ?
I seriously doubt all this station walking is going to be just fluff there will be content to go with it to make them worthwhile and interesting. Space combat will always be the focus of EVE so I wouldnt worry that it will become a planet based MMO, these stations are just an addition to the pew-pew that goes on outside the stations.
People need to stop jumping to conclusions over a 1minute video of something that will be in development for over a year. -----------------------------------
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Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.10 06:39:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mortania on 10/03/2007 06:36:11
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: RC Denton "The game's AI and encounters have remained largely static since launch, with NPCs reacting in a fairly dumb way. However recently several developers mentioned changes to the AI system of the game, when can we expect to see these changes? Unfortunately, the NPCs currently in space won't be "educated" any time in the near future. While these changes are looked for, Mangus stated unequivocally that they'd be spending their time putting their energies into the NPCs on the stations for the Ambulation Project; touching those in space would require a change to the core code of the game and they avoid this whenever possible. It simply comes down to resource allocation and they see a richer game experience occurring by creating depth in the Ambulation Project then by touching the older content due to time constraints.
I'm afraid this doesn't actually invalidate my point, despite what you may think.
Why? Because the people involved in creating Ambulation will be animators, modellers, mappers and texturers - all very different schools of creation to AI coding. AI coders do not do in-station animations, modelling and design, nor do animators, modellers and designers program artificial intelligences. the two are basically incompatible.
As such, the people working on the WIS project WILL be a different team working on different aspects of the game. Their operation on that project will have no bearing on code-related aspects of the game (bug-fixing, AI, etc) because they aren't coders.
Now, I won't speculate as to where those designers might have gone. The point is that any re-allocation of resources was minor at best
Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
Money spent is money spent. This is money that could be making our game better. Instead it is money being spent on making this game more like Earth and Beyond or Star Wars Galaxies. w00t! I loved those games!
---
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.10 06:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Yendri
Originally by: Dark Shikari I will endorse this development if they allow us to defenestrate people.
won't that also involve depressurisation of the station, however? :)
Airlocks have windows. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander
Got Corp? |
Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.10 07:50:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 10/03/2007 07:47:40
Originally by: Mortania Edited by: Mortania on 10/03/2007 06:36:11
Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
Money spent is money spent. This is money that could be making our game better. Instead it is money being spent on making this game more like Earth and Beyond or Star Wars Galaxies. w00t! I loved those games!
Il give you the benifit of the doubt and assume your Pretending to be dense. part of the CCP/WhiteWolf Buyout was CCP committing to build an mmo with the Worlds Of Darkness IP. this is a big project. that, in your example, 3.5mil isk and certainly more is going to be spent on this un-named game project. full stop. the programmers, the money and the design is ALL BEING USED, PAID OR CODED FOR THE WOD GAME. repeat this to yourself. 12 times, then go on reading.
the ambulation project is the testbed. they are taking the money they are spending on something Else and Also making eve better, or at least trying. so in summary.. read before you speak, try not to make a fool of yourself and WIS is something your going to pay for, so you might as well Get something for it.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.10 08:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mortania
Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
I don't believe it's that simple. You can't just hire more and more programmers to do more and more stuff. Eventually it becomes a mess because they all have to work together and share code/notes/etc.
That said, I really don't think that limit has been reached. I'd really like to see them fix the basic things that are currently a "low priority". I'm not sure their priorities are very wise.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.10 08:12:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain Edited by: Tek''a Rain on 10/03/2007 07:47:40
Originally by: Mortania Edited by: Mortania on 10/03/2007 06:36:11
Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
Money spent is money spent. This is money that could be making our game better. Instead it is money being spent on making this game more like Earth and Beyond or Star Wars Galaxies. w00t! I loved those games!
Il give you the benifit of the doubt and assume your Pretending to be dense. part of the CCP/WhiteWolf Buyout was CCP committing to build an mmo with the Worlds Of Darkness IP. this is a big project. that, in your example, 3.5mil isk and certainly more is going to be spent on this un-named game project. full stop. the programmers, the money and the design is ALL BEING USED, PAID OR CODED FOR THE WOD GAME. repeat this to yourself. 12 times, then go on reading.
the ambulation project is the testbed. they are taking the money they are spending on something Else and Also making eve better, or at least trying. so in summary.. read before you speak, try not to make a fool of yourself and WIS is something your going to pay for, so you might as well Get something for it.
So, it is your contention that development, debugging, implementatin, maintenance and expansion of this feature will never come from a pool of money that could ever have been used for improving the core EVE experience?
Have you played the game with a fresh perspective in a long while? There are so many bugs that we just LIVE with or have hacked work arounds for; official documentation of features is about the worst of any live MMO out there; fleet lag, database lag, market lag, wallet lag, lag lag.
I love this game, most enjoyable MMO on the market pretty much ever. I thought I would MISS this feature when I switched from E&B beta to EVE live; but I didn't. In fact, it was a massive improvement.
Yeah sure, it's entirely optional now. But, if it's really expensive to maintain (which it will be with it's own servers, own bugs, and lag issues), someone will eventually decide it needs to be integrated into the main game in some way. Even CCP can and does change their minds (I still wish I could find the original dev quote stating that EVE wouldn't have walking in stations ever).
No, I'm not going to quit over it; but neither will I sit around and just quietly accept it when CCP does something or proposes something that I don't agree with. My $15 a month entitles me to as much forum posting and opinion making as everyone else. Go on, love the feature. I don't. Nor am I deluded into thinking its FREE!!! ---
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Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.03.10 08:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Mortania
Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
I don't believe it's that simple. You can't just hire more and more programmers to do more and more stuff. Eventually it becomes a mess because they all have to work together and share code/notes/etc. You've read the quote, you responded in the thread:
That said, I really don't think that limit has been reached. I'd really like to see them fix the basic things that are currently a "low priority". I'm not sure their priorities are very wise.
Agreed. Too many devs is often a problem, read The Mythical Man Month for some great insight into why more != better.
That said, 3 college grads working at CCP could write more documentation for EVE-O that you could shake stick at in a long Icelandic summer. A stalwart group of 8 junior coders and 1 senior coder could rewrite the UI system from the ground up in about 5 months. A pack of near minimum wage outsourced QA guys could track and write a pile of bugs so high 60 programmers would be kept busy for years fixing them.
So yeah, we're in agreement, CCP isn't at it's limit. Management focus? I think they've exceeded it, what with China, CCG, WW, WOD, etc. It feels like they've lost touch with their core product. It doesn't get the attention of the core orginal devs that it used to. Many/most of them have moved up or on from daily interaction of their bread and butter.
Originally by: Magnus Bergsson @ this year's GDC
"With so much focus paid on 0.0 space, it's often easy to forget that some players intentionally avoid the strife and spend time in Empire where gangs are not of importance. Because of this, there's no advantage or impetus to join a gang. I asked Magnus what was in the pipeline to change this? His reaction was amusing. He was honestly surprised as, like many EVE developers, he had moved on from Empire and lives in 0.0; it simply hadn't occurred to him that many players weren't ganging up since in 0.0 space gangs are essential to survive."
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.10 12:16:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Stitcher on 10/03/2007 12:18:24 Edited by: Stitcher on 10/03/2007 12:17:21
Originally by: Mortania Money is entirely liquid. While CCP chose to spend (let's pull a number out of the air) 3.5M ISK creating Ambulation, they could have just as easily spent that amount hiring more programmers, designers, producers, testers or hardware making the core game better.
Money spent is money spent. This is money that could be making our game better. Instead it is money being spent on making this game more like Earth and Beyond or Star Wars Galaxies. w00t! I loved those games!
I concede the point the point about money being fluid... but I definitely don't agree with you on the "more like E&B or SWG" thing. CCP have a history of managing to pull off new additions to the game with flare, style and competence. They're clearly as excited about this project as I am, if not more so... and that probably means it won't be a half-baked failure, especially if they're throwing even only half of the money you seem to be suspecting at it.
The big failure of the E&B and SWG teams was that they stopped caring about their project and moved onto something else. CCP are devoted to, and enthusiastic about EVE. You can practically see pure gaseous fanboyism wafting from every dev blog or CCP staff post. With that degree of enthusiasm applied, I really can't believe that this feature is going to make the game suck - they'll be taking every effort to enhance the game.
I find it impossible not to be excited at the prospect of this feature and am choosing to assume that it isn't going to wreck the game.
What it will contribute to the game beyond coolness factor, roleplay opportunity and eye candy remains to be seen... but for those three added benefits alone, I endorse this product and/or service. ***
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.10 18:42:00 -
[67]
Why is CCP wasting time and money on these forums rather than fixing the game! Shut down the forums and get to work!!
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Hana Brenecki
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Posted - 2007.03.11 00:57:00 -
[68]
Hey, looky at this:
Quote: If I had a million isk for every person I've heard say "I'd play Eve if you could get out of your ship and actually see your character" I'd be a rich man - and these aren't people avoiding the game because it's too complex, they're people avoiding the game because there aren't enough social tools. Given that Eve gets the tech pretty much free (as it's needed for WoD anyway), the effort that'll be expended to allow all these extra socially-minded players into the game is well worth it IMO, as they're exactly the sort of people that will be good for the game.
Someone else actually gets it. How awesome. Can't remember who originally wrote this, but let's get married.
As for the 'resources' argument, erm... no. I know from working in a big corporation myself, that if you hire more people and throw more money at a delicate ongoing technical problem (i.e bugfixing), it more often than not just stuffs everything right up. Plenty of real-world examples of this.
And bugfixing isn't being neglected anyway. Hey, do you reckon the next patch will contain:
1. Walking In Stations 2. Bugfixes
I'm betting we'll see 2. before we see 1.
But even if it was true that bugfixing was being neglected, (which it's not) Ambulation is probably far more important for the continued life of the game than bugfixing anyway, whether you like it or not, for a whole host of blatantly obvious reasons, most of which are alluded to by the paragraph I quoted above, hence saving me pages of typing. Damn I love that guy.
Okay, flame away now, I have my flame-proof goggles on.
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Stitcher
Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.11 03:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Hana Brenecki As for the 'resources' argument, erm... no. I know from working in a big corporation myself, that if you hire more people and throw more money at a delicate ongoing technical problem (i.e bugfixing), it more often than not just stuffs everything right up. Plenty of real-world examples of this.
I do believe you just echoed my own statement... nice to have it confirmed by someone with a professional understanding (as opposed to my own amateurish interest).
The big sources of complaint over Ambulation seem to come from three sources:
1: The "It'll turn this game into Earth and Beyond or Star Wars Galaxies" crowd 2: The "There's no point to it... it'll be boring" crowd 3: The "It takes time, money and focus away from more important issues" crowd.
In response:
1: I don't believe it will. CCP have always put a lot of effort into getting new features as right as (and usually better than) what we could reasonably expect of them. I can't predict that the addition of this feature will in any way be detrimental to the game, especially as it will be entirely optional. And without dance animations (except, as I've said before, hopefully of the variety that involves a pole and an athletic lady), it won't detract from EVE's more "mature" style next to some other MMOs
2: This depends purely on what the player is looking for. Sure, there'll be nothing in the way of pew-pew, and all the stuff you can do in-station can be done from the pod as well... but this feature is more or less 100% roleplay-oriented, which I can't help but endorse. There simply isn't enough RP in this game for my tastes. Besides, sometimes, Eye candy for the sake of eye candy is reason enough.
3: This complaint, I think, mostly stems from an incomplete understanding of business finance, and the mechanics of game design.
Quote: But even if it was true that bugfixing was being neglected, (which it's not) Ambulation is probably far more important for the continued life of the game than bugfixing anyway...
QFT. Without future development and adaptation, game experiences become stagnant after a while, which is one of the reasons why MMOs and other multiplayer games usually have far more replay value than single-player games. Still, without updates, upgrades, new features, innovation and adaptation, eventually even the best and most interesting MMOs in the world become stagnant and players start to lose interest. Ambulation is a step (ahaha.) in a new direction for EVE - one that could potentially see it blossom into something a lot bigger and more interesting than its initial concept. Contrary to some people's believes, I'd say it would be entirely possible to implement all kinds of extra game features without ever abandoning the core concept of the game.
Quote: Okay, flame away now, I have my flame-proof goggles on.
The goggles, they do.... something? ***
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Wulfstan
Caldari The Sweeney
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Posted - 2007.03.11 11:08:00 -
[70]
I'm offloading a large stock of trousers from my van, parked around the back of Caldari Navy Plant, Jita.
Tech II "Purple Loon" variants also available.
Just back in stock, Caldari Navy trousers and Imperial Flares.
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Celeste Coeval
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Posted - 2007.03.11 12:10:00 -
[71]
Ambulation - Why not?
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein |
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