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Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:17:00 - [1] OK now i got my emo out of the way, could you please do something with our BS?? Typhoons: ZOMG NANOPHOON PWNZ, maybe but i refuse to fly a 1 trick gimmick ship & they already plan to nerf it/nanos while boosting amarr bs GG, afteer that it'll be useless once again Fix: Make it a AC/drone ship, get rid of the launchers make it a 7/8 turrent ship and give it a fall off and rof bonus Tempests: Ye this owns, cant get enough as it does fleet + close range so well, but sometimes my love for this ship blinds me to the fact other ships can do the same thing but better Fix: shes fine Maelstrom: ......... You really want me to cry dont ya? this ship is so useless for pvp as tempests do long range and short range far better, id imagine its ok for pve. Fix: Stop this shield bonus for a turrent ship!! just doesnt work when you need to worry about tracking, make this ship a arty beast give rof and optimal bonus or to stay inline with the other t3 bs give it shield resistance bonus and remove a mid slot ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Pharos Dei Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:24:00 - [2] lol seriously, thats crap mate... granted the typhoon is percived as a one trick wonder atm, but if you put some thought into it, it can be one of the way better bs's. tempest: one the best bs's in all of eve... good, in fleet, good solo... what else do you want? and the maelstrom: dude, that ship is awesome, great tank great dps... its not the nbe everything ship, but then again none of the new t3 bs's is...
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:27:00 - [3] There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:29:00 - [4] Originally by: maarud There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Found the pilots name: Crux Australis Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:37:00 - [5] "Turrents" is even more annoying than "Fraction". N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Sun Ra OK now i got my emo out of the way, could you please do something with our BS?? Typhoons: ZOMG NANOPHOON PWNZ, maybe but i refuse to fly a 1 trick gimmick ship & they already plan to nerf it/nanos while boosting amarr bs GG, afteer that it'll be useless once again Fix: Make it a AC/drone ship, get rid of the launchers make it a 7/8 turrent ship and give it a fall off and rof bonus Tempests: Ye this owns, cant get enough as it does fleet + close range so well, but sometimes my love for this ship blinds me to the fact other ships can do the same thing but better Fix: shes fine Maelstrom: ......... You really want me to cry dont ya? this ship is so useless for pvp as tempests do long range and short range far better, id imagine its ok for pve. Fix: Stop this shield bonus for a turrent ship!! just doesnt work when you need to worry about tracking, make this ship a arty beast give rof and optimal bonus or to stay inline with the other t3 bs give it shield resistance bonus and remove a mid slot I'm with you on the drone/ac phoon, nanophoon with missiles makes me cry. The tempy is also fine. Now, while normally I would agree with you on the gimping of minmatar by giving them a shield boost bonus, I have to disagree with the maelstrom. Using t2 setups the following is possible: A tank with 15k shields, good resistances, and boosting about 1.2k shields per second (taking into account lowest res at 60%). A tank / gank setup with the same resistances but only 10k shields that does up to 1k dps from 5-15ks and up to 600dps from 5-50ks depending on which ammo you use. A pure gank setup that does the same damage at the above but has dual webs / ecm / etc. sgb wuvs his maelstrom. I've already lost one dedicated tank (took 6 bs to bring it down. I'd tanked more before but guess they were better setup), and i'm now up for gankage I think. Don't forget that the mael, with half of the tempest's bonus but 2 more turret slots and a bigger drone bay, actually does about 5% more damage, giving you the shield boost as a bonus. I'm all for minnie whining since we generally get the short end of the stick (sleipnir / claymore being a case in point compared to the other CS) but the maelstrom pwns in small gang pvp. sgb
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:46:00 - [7] 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Ryysa 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. I'm pretty sure that my ac gank / tank tempy has a shield tank :) Also when i ran the numbers the last couple of times the mael was still ahead on dps due to the extra 2 turrets. Not exactly sure of the math due to being at work but it's something like the extra 25% dps gives you the equivilent of 7.5 turrets compared to the mael's 8. sgb
chris lares	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:06:00 - [9] z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:08:00 - [10] Originally by: chris lares z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success Yes, because as minmatar pilots we want a nos/missile based system that also ignores one of the ship's bonuses. That is in fact the setup, minus a tweak or two, that i used to fly on a nosphoon before I got disgusted with it. sgb

Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:12:00 - [11] Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. I'm pretty sure that my ac gank / tank tempy has a shield tank :) Also when i ran the numbers the last couple of times the mael was still ahead on dps due to the extra 2 turrets. Not exactly sure of the math due to being at work but it's something like the extra 25% dps gives you the equivilent of 7.5 turrets compared to the mael's 8. sgb Actually you were right, now that I think about it. At BS lvl5, you get a 25% ROF and 25% DMG bonus on the tempest, and a 25% ROF bonus on the maelstrom. Due to the ROF bonus being a "reduction" bonus, DPS increases from a 25% rof bonus by 33,3(3)%. Before any bonii are applied, the damage relation is 8:6 Maelstrom:Tempest. Now, let's apply the rof bonii. 81.33(3) = 10.66(6) for the Maelstrom 61.33(3) = 8 for the Tempest. So we got a new relation fo: 10.66(6):8 (Maelstrom:Tempest). Let's apply the additional 25% dmg bonus the tempest gets over the maelstrom. 8*1.25 = 10 So the relation is 10.66(6):10 (Maelstrom:Tempest) That would mean that the Maelstrom does ~6.67% more damage than the Tempest and the Tempest does 6.25% less damage than the Maelstrom. Ofcourse, at bs lvl4 the Maelstrom has a larger advantage. There's a "but" however... With the current metagame, ask yourself, what hurts the target more, 6.6% more dps on battleship sized guns or 2 heavy nos? Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. N.F.F. Recruitment
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:17:00 - [12] Originally by: chris lares z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success Why bother?? just fly a domi, it has more drones, the drones do more damage and you can ecm at the same time Im not saying its not possible to fit phoons and maelstroms just other races ships can do the same only ALOT better, minmatar ships mostly seemed half-arsed to me ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:20:00 - [13] Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. So basically if your not in a hugh ass gang the maelstrom is just as useless as a shield tanked acpest, and if you are in a hugh gang do u really need a big tank? thats why i think shield resist bonus > shield boost ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. So basically if your not in a hugh ass gang the maelstrom is just as useless as a shield tanked acpest, and if you are in a hugh gang do u really need a big tank? thats why i think shield resist bonus > shield boost Funny you should say this because yesterday AAA demonstrated to us precisely why a Maelstrom with a massive tank is a fantastic gang ship.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:26:00 - [16] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. Sure but you'd have to omit speed boost for a decent tank or scram and ravens dont need to worry about tracking & range ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:29:00 - [17] Seriously, don't whine about mael too much, ask sgb on how to use it in a gang environment. He has won quite many fights due to using it EXACTLY as he should :) N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryysa Seriously, don't whine about mael too much, ask sgb on how to use it in a gang environment. He has won quite many fights due to using it EXACTLY as he should :) It went pop eventually but not before a large rzr gang got their asses kicked due to calling me primary for the 2nd, 2rd and 4th minutes of the battle, after which I had 2% structure and they had run out of ships ^^ I need to get me another one of those, maybe I'll invest in a faction booster this time... You're right about a shield tanked ac pest being a bit pointless now we have the mael. I hadn't thought about it that way, but since i don't use a tempy now i have the mael you're probably right! 2 nos is good but i dunno, i like the extra little bits of damage here and there, they all mount up. Anyway to sum up - tempest = good. Mael = excellent. Phoon = pointless unless you ignore the bonuses... sgb P.S. lol at the dude who says you can get a damage monster from the phoon with split weapons system and 6 damage mods in lows. I tried that setup (trained t2 torps for it actually) and with good skills including maxed turrets and maxed drones I got about 750dps with full t2 damage ammo. My tempy does about 950 and my mael just over 1000dps. Split bonus sucks, nuff said. sgb
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:38:00 - [19] Only nub FC dont switch targets if you can see your gang cant out dps their tank, i mean comon they sat there for 4mins shooting the same ship ? ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. Sure but you'd have to omit speed boost for a decent tank or scram and ravens dont need to worry about tracking & range I still maintain that dealing with tracking is easier than dealing with low explosion velocity and even missile velocity, especially against fast ships which everyone is flying these days. At least you can do something about tracking. Having said the Phoon does have to deal with both ;) Artillery perhaps? Artillery tends to have more in common with torps than guns. Sit still and shoot like a Raven. I think you're chucking the idea out before you've even tried it tbh. It's easy to fall back on the tracking and range thing: "Fit guns." "Can't! Tracking" "But it really doe..." "Can't! Tracking, range!" "I'm going to the shop" "Can't! Tracking & range, too fast, no tracking!" :P

Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:40:00 - [21] Originally by: smallgreenblur sgb P.S. lol at the dude who says you can get a damage monster from the phoon with split weapons system and 6 damage mods in lows. I tried that setup (trained t2 torps for it actually) and with good skills including maxed turrets and maxed drones I got about 750dps with full t2 damage ammo. My tempy does about 950 and my mael just over 1000dps. Split bonus sucks, nuff said. sgb Not to mention the phoons cruddy grid, tho it mite not be so bad with rigs.... ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:50:00 - [22] Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:48:36 sgb: You fit torps and expect dps? I take it you're not a Caldari pilot :P. Ravens very rarely out dps anything and they still take BS down fast. 8 weapon alpha strike, big hits with damage of your choice, doesn't sound to bad to me especially for a tier 1 BS. If it runs into grid problems then fair enough. Like I say I don't know much about the Phoon.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:12:00 - [23] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:48:36 sgb: You fit torps and expect dps? I take it you're not a Caldari pilot :P. Ravens very rarely out dps anything and they still take BS down fast. 8 weapon alpha strike, big hits with damage of your choice, doesn't sound to bad to me especially for a tier 1 BS. If it runs into grid problems then fair enough. Like I say I don't know much about the Phoon. Also u can fit a temepst with 4 launchers 4 ac's easier and do more damage, and shield tank better lol, but thats pointess as ur better off with 6 ac's and 2 launchers Trust me any setup you can come up with on a phoon 90% of the time a pest will do it better ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Centurin Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:25:00 - [24] BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:34:00 - [25] Typhoon really could use a buff sicne the nanonerf is comming. But maesltrom is nice. Granted. Rokh has a better bonus, but maesltrom is far more beutiful. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:39:00 - [26] how can you whine about minmatar and not mention the poor nidhoggur? it needs love. lots of it.
Wizie Minmatar 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Wizie on 09/03/2007 15:42:35 Originally by: Centurin BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. Keep your BOB/Rest of Eve propaganda out of the ships and modules forum. Typhoon is not an awesome ship. Infact without nanos it still sucks. In gangs, you are better off with Tempest/MAelstrom. Solo, without nanos, you are still better off with Tempest/Maelstrom AC/Siege setup with drones, relys on 40% of dmg from drones of which you can only replace 2. After that every drone you lose is an amt of dps you dont get back most of the time. Grid issues... ac/siege IIs, mwd/cap injector 1 rep... hard enough to fit. Dual rep almsot impossible to fit without rigs and RCU IIs The phoon needs a fix, people got onto the nano bandwagon and forgot about the issues it has/had. Admitedly, I was one of those people. However, that does not change the fact that the phoon will need some work. The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Miss CJB Gallente In White Suits	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:55:00 - [28] i tryed a phoon out on the test serve, had 10 BS 1 v 1's with it, and i havent lost one yet. and that was without nanos or mwd's. whalst still backing a full rack of tackling (web, scram). this BS is underrated, and worth its waight in gold Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Taiatia ([email protected])
Kar Anshral	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Wizie Edited by: Wizie on 09/03/2007 15:42:35 Originally by: Centurin BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. Keep your BOB/Rest of Eve propaganda out of the ships and modules forum. 'nuff said. Originally by: Wizie Typhoon is not an awesome ship. Infact without nanos it still sucks. In gangs, you are better off with Tempest/MAelstrom. Solo, without nanos, you are still better off with Tempest/Maelstrom Yeah, I'd say even more, with current nosferatu balance a tempest is preferred over a Maelstrom, 6% extra dps(and better shield tank) is not worth the loss of 2 utility highslots with nosferatu imo. Originally by: Wizie AC/Siege setup with drones, relys on 40% of dmg from drones of which you can only replace 2. After that every drone you lose is an amt of dps you dont get back most of the time. Grid issues... ac/siege IIs, mwd/cap injector 1 rep... hard enough to fit. Dual rep almsot impossible to fit without rigs and RCU IIs The phoon needs a fix, people got onto the nano bandwagon and forgot about the issues it has/had. Admitedly, I was one of those people. However, that does not change the fact that the phoon will need some work. got nothing much to add here, if it would have some more grid would be good, so you can fit a bigger ac's with the siege(or d425 with stronger tank) Originally by: Wizie The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers How can you suggest changes to the nidhoggur unless you have tried it? Does it have issues? Oh yeah. Things i'd look at to change: the remote shield/armor bonus, a duration reduction is a bad bonus. It does increase the hp/s but at the same time it increases cap/s too and that's the last thing that you want when it comes to the capital remote shield/armor boosters, though I do like the idea behind the bonus but better bonuses would be either cap reduction for the remotes or increased boost amount(my preference is going to cap reduction, increasing time that the nidhoggur can boost gives it imo an interesting support role, where the thanatos is gank and chimera/archon are tank). Second problem I have with nidhoggur is the cpu(and secondary grid). Both cpu and grid of nidhoggur are lower then of thanatos, while chimera has lowest grid but highest cpu and Archon has highest grid and lowest cpu. Nidhoggur slot layout suggests shield tank but when you attempt to fit a shield tank you quickly run into the cpu barrier, ending up with either unfitted high slots or co-processors in the lows(which are pretty much required to be used for other stuff,like cap recharge already). There is the option of armor tanking the nidhoggur which makes it easy to get enough cap recharge but your resists will be lacking and if you want to use all capital sized mods you might run into grid issues(eg. can't fit 2 cap reps with 2 cap remote reps and 3 dcu). The grid issue is not that bad though, low cpu however is an issue.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Sun Ra on 09/03/2007 16:59:15 Originally by: Wizie The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers Wizie o/ Yup i have gal bs5 and cald bs5 ive been considering getting either ones dread over min version I may have underesmited the mael abit but i really dont feel comfortable flying a close range ship without a web and scram and worry about does my gang have enough ppl to web/scram for me, its why i dont fly ravens even tho i have torp/crusie 5 and cald bs5 ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'



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