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Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:17:00 - [1] OK now i got my emo out of the way, could you please do something with our BS?? Typhoons: ZOMG NANOPHOON PWNZ, maybe but i refuse to fly a 1 trick gimmick ship & they already plan to nerf it/nanos while boosting amarr bs GG, afteer that it'll be useless once again Fix: Make it a AC/drone ship, get rid of the launchers make it a 7/8 turrent ship and give it a fall off and rof bonus Tempests: Ye this owns, cant get enough as it does fleet + close range so well, but sometimes my love for this ship blinds me to the fact other ships can do the same thing but better Fix: shes fine Maelstrom: ......... You really want me to cry dont ya? this ship is so useless for pvp as tempests do long range and short range far better, id imagine its ok for pve. Fix: Stop this shield bonus for a turrent ship!! just doesnt work when you need to worry about tracking, make this ship a arty beast give rof and optimal bonus or to stay inline with the other t3 bs give it shield resistance bonus and remove a mid slot ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Pharos Dei Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:24:00 - [2] lol seriously, thats crap mate... granted the typhoon is percived as a one trick wonder atm, but if you put some thought into it, it can be one of the way better bs's. tempest: one the best bs's in all of eve... good, in fleet, good solo... what else do you want? and the maelstrom: dude, that ship is awesome, great tank great dps... its not the nbe everything ship, but then again none of the new t3 bs's is...
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:27:00 - [3] There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:29:00 - [4] Originally by: maarud There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Found the pilots name: Crux Australis Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:37:00 - [5] "Turrents" is even more annoying than "Fraction". N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Sun Ra OK now i got my emo out of the way, could you please do something with our BS?? Typhoons: ZOMG NANOPHOON PWNZ, maybe but i refuse to fly a 1 trick gimmick ship & they already plan to nerf it/nanos while boosting amarr bs GG, afteer that it'll be useless once again Fix: Make it a AC/drone ship, get rid of the launchers make it a 7/8 turrent ship and give it a fall off and rof bonus Tempests: Ye this owns, cant get enough as it does fleet + close range so well, but sometimes my love for this ship blinds me to the fact other ships can do the same thing but better Fix: shes fine Maelstrom: ......... You really want me to cry dont ya? this ship is so useless for pvp as tempests do long range and short range far better, id imagine its ok for pve. Fix: Stop this shield bonus for a turrent ship!! just doesnt work when you need to worry about tracking, make this ship a arty beast give rof and optimal bonus or to stay inline with the other t3 bs give it shield resistance bonus and remove a mid slot I'm with you on the drone/ac phoon, nanophoon with missiles makes me cry. The tempy is also fine. Now, while normally I would agree with you on the gimping of minmatar by giving them a shield boost bonus, I have to disagree with the maelstrom. Using t2 setups the following is possible: A tank with 15k shields, good resistances, and boosting about 1.2k shields per second (taking into account lowest res at 60%). A tank / gank setup with the same resistances but only 10k shields that does up to 1k dps from 5-15ks and up to 600dps from 5-50ks depending on which ammo you use. A pure gank setup that does the same damage at the above but has dual webs / ecm / etc. sgb wuvs his maelstrom. I've already lost one dedicated tank (took 6 bs to bring it down. I'd tanked more before but guess they were better setup), and i'm now up for gankage I think. Don't forget that the mael, with half of the tempest's bonus but 2 more turret slots and a bigger drone bay, actually does about 5% more damage, giving you the shield boost as a bonus. I'm all for minnie whining since we generally get the short end of the stick (sleipnir / claymore being a case in point compared to the other CS) but the maelstrom pwns in small gang pvp. sgb
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:46:00 - [7] 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Ryysa 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. I'm pretty sure that my ac gank / tank tempy has a shield tank :) Also when i ran the numbers the last couple of times the mael was still ahead on dps due to the extra 2 turrets. Not exactly sure of the math due to being at work but it's something like the extra 25% dps gives you the equivilent of 7.5 turrets compared to the mael's 8. sgb
chris lares	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:06:00 - [9] z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:08:00 - [10] Originally by: chris lares z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success Yes, because as minmatar pilots we want a nos/missile based system that also ignores one of the ship's bonuses. That is in fact the setup, minus a tweak or two, that i used to fly on a nosphoon before I got disgusted with it. sgb

Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:12:00 - [11] Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa 5% more damage is only at bs lvl4 iirc. At lvl5, tempest pulls ahead. However, AC tempest is armortanked, so you can stuff a lot more gyros into maelstrom, increasing it's damage over the tempest significantly more than 5%. I'm pretty sure that my ac gank / tank tempy has a shield tank :) Also when i ran the numbers the last couple of times the mael was still ahead on dps due to the extra 2 turrets. Not exactly sure of the math due to being at work but it's something like the extra 25% dps gives you the equivilent of 7.5 turrets compared to the mael's 8. sgb Actually you were right, now that I think about it. At BS lvl5, you get a 25% ROF and 25% DMG bonus on the tempest, and a 25% ROF bonus on the maelstrom. Due to the ROF bonus being a "reduction" bonus, DPS increases from a 25% rof bonus by 33,3(3)%. Before any bonii are applied, the damage relation is 8:6 Maelstrom:Tempest. Now, let's apply the rof bonii. 81.33(3) = 10.66(6) for the Maelstrom 61.33(3) = 8 for the Tempest. So we got a new relation fo: 10.66(6):8 (Maelstrom:Tempest). Let's apply the additional 25% dmg bonus the tempest gets over the maelstrom. 8*1.25 = 10 So the relation is 10.66(6):10 (Maelstrom:Tempest) That would mean that the Maelstrom does ~6.67% more damage than the Tempest and the Tempest does 6.25% less damage than the Maelstrom. Ofcourse, at bs lvl4 the Maelstrom has a larger advantage. There's a "but" however... With the current metagame, ask yourself, what hurts the target more, 6.6% more dps on battleship sized guns or 2 heavy nos? Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. N.F.F. Recruitment
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:17:00 - [12] Originally by: chris lares z0mg typhoon setup for sun r4: High Slots: 4 heavy dim nos 2 medium nos 1 medium neut 1 heavy missile launcher or probe launcher Med Slots: 100mn ab t2 heavy cap injector t2 web disrupter Low Slots: dual t2 large armor rep 3 hardners (kinetic, thermal and explosive) energized adaptive nano membrane t2 and a damage control t2 :] thats my pvp phoon setup mate try it. Ive had gr8 success Why bother?? just fly a domi, it has more drones, the drones do more damage and you can ecm at the same time Im not saying its not possible to fit phoons and maelstroms just other races ships can do the same only ALOT better, minmatar ships mostly seemed half-arsed to me ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:20:00 - [13] Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. So basically if your not in a hugh ass gang the maelstrom is just as useless as a shield tanked acpest, and if you are in a hugh gang do u really need a big tank? thats why i think shield resist bonus > shield boost ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 09/03/2007 13:11:52 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Ryysa Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. So basically if your not in a hugh ass gang the maelstrom is just as useless as a shield tanked acpest, and if you are in a hugh gang do u really need a big tank? thats why i think shield resist bonus > shield boost Funny you should say this because yesterday AAA demonstrated to us precisely why a Maelstrom with a massive tank is a fantastic gang ship.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:26:00 - [16] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. Sure but you'd have to omit speed boost for a decent tank or scram and ravens dont need to worry about tracking & range ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:29:00 - [17] Seriously, don't whine about mael too much, ask sgb on how to use it in a gang environment. He has won quite many fights due to using it EXACTLY as he should :) N.F.F. Recruitment
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryysa Seriously, don't whine about mael too much, ask sgb on how to use it in a gang environment. He has won quite many fights due to using it EXACTLY as he should :) It went pop eventually but not before a large rzr gang got their asses kicked due to calling me primary for the 2nd, 2rd and 4th minutes of the battle, after which I had 2% structure and they had run out of ships ^^ I need to get me another one of those, maybe I'll invest in a faction booster this time... You're right about a shield tanked ac pest being a bit pointless now we have the mael. I hadn't thought about it that way, but since i don't use a tempy now i have the mael you're probably right! 2 nos is good but i dunno, i like the extra little bits of damage here and there, they all mount up. Anyway to sum up - tempest = good. Mael = excellent. Phoon = pointless unless you ignore the bonuses... sgb P.S. lol at the dude who says you can get a damage monster from the phoon with split weapons system and 6 damage mods in lows. I tried that setup (trained t2 torps for it actually) and with good skills including maxed turrets and maxed drones I got about 750dps with full t2 damage ammo. My tempy does about 950 and my mael just over 1000dps. Split bonus sucks, nuff said. sgb
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:38:00 - [19] Only nub FC dont switch targets if you can see your gang cant out dps their tank, i mean comon they sat there for 4mins shooting the same ship ? ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. Sure but you'd have to omit speed boost for a decent tank or scram and ravens dont need to worry about tracking & range I still maintain that dealing with tracking is easier than dealing with low explosion velocity and even missile velocity, especially against fast ships which everyone is flying these days. At least you can do something about tracking. Having said the Phoon does have to deal with both ;) Artillery perhaps? Artillery tends to have more in common with torps than guns. Sit still and shoot like a Raven. I think you're chucking the idea out before you've even tried it tbh. It's easy to fall back on the tracking and range thing: "Fit guns." "Can't! Tracking" "But it really doe..." "Can't! Tracking, range!" "I'm going to the shop" "Can't! Tracking & range, too fast, no tracking!" :P

Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:40:00 - [21] Originally by: smallgreenblur sgb P.S. lol at the dude who says you can get a damage monster from the phoon with split weapons system and 6 damage mods in lows. I tried that setup (trained t2 torps for it actually) and with good skills including maxed turrets and maxed drones I got about 750dps with full t2 damage ammo. My tempy does about 950 and my mael just over 1000dps. Split bonus sucks, nuff said. sgb Not to mention the phoons cruddy grid, tho it mite not be so bad with rigs.... ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 13:50:00 - [22] Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:48:36 sgb: You fit torps and expect dps? I take it you're not a Caldari pilot :P. Ravens very rarely out dps anything and they still take BS down fast. 8 weapon alpha strike, big hits with damage of your choice, doesn't sound to bad to me especially for a tier 1 BS. If it runs into grid problems then fair enough. Like I say I don't know much about the Phoon.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:12:00 - [23] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:48:36 sgb: You fit torps and expect dps? I take it you're not a Caldari pilot :P. Ravens very rarely out dps anything and they still take BS down fast. 8 weapon alpha strike, big hits with damage of your choice, doesn't sound to bad to me especially for a tier 1 BS. If it runs into grid problems then fair enough. Like I say I don't know much about the Phoon. Also u can fit a temepst with 4 launchers 4 ac's easier and do more damage, and shield tank better lol, but thats pointess as ur better off with 6 ac's and 2 launchers Trust me any setup you can come up with on a phoon 90% of the time a pest will do it better ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Centurin Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:25:00 - [24] BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:34:00 - [25] Typhoon really could use a buff sicne the nanonerf is comming. But maesltrom is nice. Granted. Rokh has a better bonus, but maesltrom is far more beutiful. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:39:00 - [26] how can you whine about minmatar and not mention the poor nidhoggur? it needs love. lots of it.
Wizie Minmatar 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Wizie on 09/03/2007 15:42:35 Originally by: Centurin BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. Keep your BOB/Rest of Eve propaganda out of the ships and modules forum. Typhoon is not an awesome ship. Infact without nanos it still sucks. In gangs, you are better off with Tempest/MAelstrom. Solo, without nanos, you are still better off with Tempest/Maelstrom AC/Siege setup with drones, relys on 40% of dmg from drones of which you can only replace 2. After that every drone you lose is an amt of dps you dont get back most of the time. Grid issues... ac/siege IIs, mwd/cap injector 1 rep... hard enough to fit. Dual rep almsot impossible to fit without rigs and RCU IIs The phoon needs a fix, people got onto the nano bandwagon and forgot about the issues it has/had. Admitedly, I was one of those people. However, that does not change the fact that the phoon will need some work. The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Miss CJB Gallente In White Suits	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:55:00 - [28] i tryed a phoon out on the test serve, had 10 BS 1 v 1's with it, and i havent lost one yet. and that was without nanos or mwd's. whalst still backing a full rack of tackling (web, scram). this BS is underrated, and worth its waight in gold Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Taiatia ([email protected])
Kar Anshral	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Wizie Edited by: Wizie on 09/03/2007 15:42:35 Originally by: Centurin BOB must be getting lax on their recruiting requirements if their members are posting stuff like this. Keep your BOB/Rest of Eve propaganda out of the ships and modules forum. 'nuff said. Originally by: Wizie Typhoon is not an awesome ship. Infact without nanos it still sucks. In gangs, you are better off with Tempest/MAelstrom. Solo, without nanos, you are still better off with Tempest/Maelstrom Yeah, I'd say even more, with current nosferatu balance a tempest is preferred over a Maelstrom, 6% extra dps(and better shield tank) is not worth the loss of 2 utility highslots with nosferatu imo. Originally by: Wizie AC/Siege setup with drones, relys on 40% of dmg from drones of which you can only replace 2. After that every drone you lose is an amt of dps you dont get back most of the time. Grid issues... ac/siege IIs, mwd/cap injector 1 rep... hard enough to fit. Dual rep almsot impossible to fit without rigs and RCU IIs The phoon needs a fix, people got onto the nano bandwagon and forgot about the issues it has/had. Admitedly, I was one of those people. However, that does not change the fact that the phoon will need some work. got nothing much to add here, if it would have some more grid would be good, so you can fit a bigger ac's with the siege(or d425 with stronger tank) Originally by: Wizie The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers How can you suggest changes to the nidhoggur unless you have tried it? Does it have issues? Oh yeah. Things i'd look at to change: the remote shield/armor bonus, a duration reduction is a bad bonus. It does increase the hp/s but at the same time it increases cap/s too and that's the last thing that you want when it comes to the capital remote shield/armor boosters, though I do like the idea behind the bonus but better bonuses would be either cap reduction for the remotes or increased boost amount(my preference is going to cap reduction, increasing time that the nidhoggur can boost gives it imo an interesting support role, where the thanatos is gank and chimera/archon are tank). Second problem I have with nidhoggur is the cpu(and secondary grid). Both cpu and grid of nidhoggur are lower then of thanatos, while chimera has lowest grid but highest cpu and Archon has highest grid and lowest cpu. Nidhoggur slot layout suggests shield tank but when you attempt to fit a shield tank you quickly run into the cpu barrier, ending up with either unfitted high slots or co-processors in the lows(which are pretty much required to be used for other stuff,like cap recharge already). There is the option of armor tanking the nidhoggur which makes it easy to get enough cap recharge but your resists will be lacking and if you want to use all capital sized mods you might run into grid issues(eg. can't fit 2 cap reps with 2 cap remote reps and 3 dcu). The grid issue is not that bad though, low cpu however is an issue.
Sun Ra Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Sun Ra on 09/03/2007 16:59:15 Originally by: Wizie The less said about the Nidhogur the better. I have all cap ship skills (prereq) trained up to 3 or 4. But will not train up Minmatar carrier/dread. Until the carrier is fixed. Otherwise, at some point when I have the time to train up Gal BS 5 (26 days) I'll just do gallente carriers Wizie o/ Yup i have gal bs5 and cald bs5 ive been considering getting either ones dread over min version I may have underesmited the mael abit but i really dont feel comfortable flying a close range ship without a web and scram and worry about does my gang have enough ppl to web/scram for me, its why i dont fly ravens even tho i have torp/crusie 5 and cald bs5 ATUF RIP - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'

Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:06:00 - [31] Maelstrom is the arty platform for minmatar now. The 8 turrets means it has a higher burst damage, who cares if it doesnt have a ROF bonus, in most fleet engagements, you'll rarely get 2 shots off, let alone three on the same ship. Otherwise, minmatar is pretty frickin nice now. Their hacs are solid, slipnir is ***in, hurricane is fun, and tempest is still pretty mean with AC's. Im not even going to mention their frigs, which are all pretty solid. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever**
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Maelstrom is the arty platform for minmatar now. The 8 turrets means it has a higher burst damage, who cares if it doesnt have a ROF bonus, in most fleet engagements, you'll rarely get 2 shots off, let alone three on the same ship. Otherwise, minmatar is pretty frickin nice now. Their hacs are solid, slipnir is *****in, hurricane is fun, and tempest is still pretty mean with AC's. Im not even going to mention their frigs, which are all pretty solid. ? what? It DO have a ROF bonus If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Miss CJB i tryed a phoon out on the test serve, had 10 BS 1 v 1's with it, and i havent lost one yet. and that was without nanos or mwd's. whalst still backing a full rack of tackling (web, scram). this BS is underrated, and worth its waight in gold the problem is, Its very very hard to fit and has a very low HP buffer. Make it closet to tempest on HP and would be fine. Or give a bit more powergrid. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:23:00 - [34] Edited by: smallgreenblur on 09/03/2007 17:20:35 Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:48:36 sgb: You fit torps and expect dps? I take it you're not a Caldari pilot :P. Ravens very rarely out dps anything and they still take BS down fast. 8 weapon alpha strike, big hits with damage of your choice, doesn't sound to bad to me especially for a tier 1 BS. If it runs into grid problems then fair enough. Like I say I don't know much about the Phoon. oooookay... I made this post in reply to your post as quoted below: Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. You made a post saying the phoon was a high damage ship. Then you said you can't use torps to get high damage. Can you see the problem here? sgb
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Maelstrom is the arty platform for minmatar now. The 8 turrets means it has a higher burst damage, who cares if it doesnt have a ROF bonus, in most fleet engagements, you'll rarely get 2 shots off, let alone three on the same ship. Otherwise, minmatar is pretty frickin nice now. Their hacs are solid, slipnir is ***in, hurricane is fun, and tempest is still pretty mean with AC's. Im not even going to mention their frigs, which are all pretty solid. ? what? It DO have a ROF bonus That you are. Im absolutely confused about this ship then. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever**
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:25:00 - [36] Edited by: smallgreenblur on 09/03/2007 17:23:22 Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Maelstrom is the arty platform for minmatar now. The 8 turrets means it has a higher burst damage, who cares if it doesnt have a ROF bonus, in most fleet engagements, you'll rarely get 2 shots off, let alone three on the same ship. Otherwise, minmatar is pretty frickin nice now. Their hacs are solid, slipnir is ***in, hurricane is fun, and tempest is still pretty mean with AC's. Im not even going to mention their frigs, which are all pretty solid. ? what? It DO have a ROF bonus That you are. Im absolutely confused about this ship then. It's a small gang autocannon / tanking platform. It fricking rocks. Originally by:** Miss CJB i tryed a phoon out on the test serve, had 10 BS 1 v 1's with it, and i havent lost one yet. and that was without nanos or mwd's. whalst still backing a full rack of tackling (web, scram). this BS is underrated, and worth its waight in gold This would be more impressive if you had done it on tranq. I have no idea what setup you were using, but whatever it was (ruling out nos and torps/drones) then any other close range bs fitted in a similar style will beat it. It just can't deal out the dps. Please, for the love of god, GET RID OF THE SPLIT BONUS. That is all. sgb
Ka'kelam	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:04:00 - [37] Okey doke ybuddy... Bs's are okay. Vaga is one of the best HAC Jag a very good AF Inty's are great we have the best dictor in the game recon's arn't bad Rifter probabily the best frig. The only thing we have that really sucks are our carriers. Otherwise we arn't doing bad. no ship is perfect. It's called balance.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:51:00 - [38] I agree with everything tbh. The Typhoon is nice but way to little PG. A 7/8 AC slot high slot setup would be excellent with its drone bay, and perhaps a tad more pg. The Tempest is... impossible to describe really. Everytime i want to fly one i remember that everything is just plain better at what it does. Maelstrom... crap.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:58:00 - [39] Originally by: smallgreenblur I'm all for minnie whining since we generally get the short end of the stick (sleipnir / claymore being a case in point compared to the other CS) but the maelstrom pwns in small gang pvp. sgb What is wrong with the Sleipnir and Claymore? Sleipnir is roughly equivelent to the Absolution[it has slightly more gank and slightly more tank, while being much faster at the expense of very very little range]. Its not the solo monster the astarte is, but nothing is really. It doesnt tank as well as a nighthawk, but it certianly ganks better. The Claymore is worse than the Vulture and the Eos, but that is because the vulture has the best large gang role, and the Eos is horribly overpowered for a fleet command ship. It certianly makes the Damnation look like a joke though. What makes these ships bad? Originally by: Ryysa There's a "but" however... With the current metagame, ask yourself, what hurts the target more, 6.6% more dps on battleship sized guns or 2 heavy nos? Btw, shieldtanking an acpest in pvp = meh, maybe before the stacking nerf. You need 4 slots for scram, web, mwd, injector on an acpest. Unless you fly in huge gang where everyone does everything for you - but in that case, maelstrom is obviously the better choice. The while the 2 NOS are nice, it comes at the expense of tank. The Maelstrom can fit a full rack of 800 repeater IIs with 3 falloff rigs while maintaining a 6 slot injected tank[counting the DCII in the lows]. Its a different type of ship, that is for sure. But if you arent soloing, you dont need those mid slots to keep targets from leaving as much. Smaller ships can do that. This is the sole thing that keeps the armageddon from completly sucking. And the Maelstrom does it with an active tank instead of a plated one.[albiet a lot more expensive] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:35:00 - [40] Theres a big difference between simple dps and effective high damage sgb. Very high dps ships tend to be stuck doing thermal and kinetic. 1000 theoretical dps from a ship which can choose its damage in all 8 slots is not something to scoff at tbh. I'm told you need 2 power grid rigs to properly fit a Phoon for damage.

smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.11 06:48:00 - [41] Originally by: welsh wizard Theres a big difference between simple dps and effective high damage sgb. Very high dps ships tend to be stuck doing thermal and kinetic. 1000 theoretical dps from a ship which can choose its damage in all 8 slots is not something to scoff at tbh. I'm told you need 2 power grid rigs to properly fit a Phoon for damage. Trust me, it's not worth it. Not when I can fit an unrigged maelstrom for much better dps. Phoon cannot choose its damage in all 8 slots. I can choose 4 slots (seige launchers), after which it kinda dies. Either you use minnie t2 ammo (exp and kin), or you swap to emp of phased plasma and take a dps hit. I would love to see the math for a 1k dps phoon that can choose its damage in all 8 high slots. sgb
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.11 06:52:00 - [42] Originally by: Goumindong What makes these ships bad? The claymore has a good tank. But that's all it has. It has no dps whatsoever. I would love to be able to use this ship in ANY configeration apart from "mids - tank, highs - nil dps a/cs and 3 gang mods." Sleip has ok dps, providing you want to do exp and kin damage and take as much time getting through untanked shields as you do through tanked armor... It can't tank and tackle either. sgb
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.11 07:26:00 - [43] Edited by: Goumindong on 11/03/2007 07:29:24 Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Goumindong What makes these ships bad? The claymore has a good tank. But that's all it has. It has no dps whatsoever. I would love to be able to use this ship in ANY configeration apart from "mids - tank, highs - nil dps a/cs and 3 gang mods." Sleip has ok dps, providing you want to do exp and kin damage and take as much time getting through untanked shields as you do through tanked armor... It can't tank and tackle either. sgb Yea, but the Damnation also has pitiful DPS and has to sacrifice tank in order to gank[what little it has]. The Vulture is good[if it could use a bit more damage] and the Eos is ridiculous in comparison to them all. Neither the Absolution or Nighthawk can tackle, tank and gank. Each must pick two. And the Sliepnir has more raw DPS than both of them. The Sliepnir can change ammo to phased plasma to eat through shields though the Nighthawk definitly trumps it in this area. The Absolution doesnt have a choice it just stops at armor in comparison to both the Sliepnir and Nighthawk while the Sliepnir and Nighthawk both keep chewing. Going the same speed through untanked shield as through tanked armor is a bonus, not a penalty ;) Maybe the problem, like the teir 1 Battlecruisers, is not that the Sliepnir and Claymore suck, but that the Gallente equivelents are just plain stronger in solo combat? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.11 07:32:00 - [44] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: welsh wizard Theres a big difference between simple dps and effective high damage sgb. Very high dps ships tend to be stuck doing thermal and kinetic. 1000 theoretical dps from a ship which can choose its damage in all 8 slots is not something to scoff at tbh. I'm told you need 2 power grid rigs to properly fit a Phoon for damage. Trust me, it's not worth it. Not when I can fit an unrigged maelstrom for much better dps. Phoon cannot choose its damage in all 8 slots. I can choose 4 slots (seige launchers), after which it kinda dies. Either you use minnie t2 ammo (exp and kin), or you swap to emp of phased plasma and take a dps hit. I would love to see the math for a 1k dps phoon that can choose its damage in all 8 high slots. sgb Against an omni hardend shield tank, phased plasma is 2.6% worse than EMP agaisnt the shield. Not counting the range boost which will likly remove that 2.6% due to the slight falloff movement. Against a shield tank that has an EM hardener fitted, which is typically fitted before a thermal hardener, phased plasma whollops EMP. Against one with both[not including rigs] it will lose only by a small amount. If rigs are used to boost thermal and not EM, its still a better deal to use the phased plasma. There is pretty much no reason to ever use EMP over Phased Plasma. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.03.11 08:32:00 - [45] Quote: Typhoon: 4 dual 425 II 4 siege II ab II faint warp prohibitor (20k) web medium electrochemical injector large rep II internal force field array exlosive hardener II kinetic hardener II n-type thermic hardener energized adaptive nano membrane II 1600mm rolled tungsten Sturdy AC setup from an old friend. This competed well in straight slugging matches with T2 Blasterthrons before Void L got reduced from 60 to 56 damage (most of this setups damage comes from torps and drones so the Hail L reduction barely effects it), even when only using T1 heavy drones vs. fully T2 tooled up Blasterthrons with T2 drones. The Typhoon could maybe do with a bit of shield HP's being swapped into armour, but otherwise it is good without nanos. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Alyth Gallente The Ninja Coalition Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 10:02:00 - [46] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: welsh wizard Theres a big difference between simple dps and effective high damage sgb. Very high dps ships tend to be stuck doing thermal and kinetic. 1000 theoretical dps from a ship which can choose its damage in all 8 slots is not something to scoff at tbh. I'm told you need 2 power grid rigs to properly fit a Phoon for damage. Trust me, it's not worth it. Not when I can fit an unrigged maelstrom for much better dps. Phoon cannot choose its damage in all 8 slots. I can choose 4 slots (seige launchers), after which it kinda dies. Either you use minnie t2 ammo (exp and kin), or you swap to emp of phased plasma and take a dps hit. I would love to see the math for a 1k dps phoon that can choose its damage in all 8 high slots. sgb 6s or so RoF (it could be less, this is from memory), 18.2x Damage mod on 720s? I'll take that and like it thanks....
mematar Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.11 10:30:00 - [47] Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.03.11 10:41:00 - [48] I would be a happy panda if they gave a mining bonus to the carrier. I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP.
Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.03.11 12:48:00 - [49] sorry to go a bit of-topic but ive been wondering something im a new player, playing minmatar. and readin this forum i always hear, race X is good at this, race Y is good with that... i keep hearing minmatar is good at PVP, but why? ive seen multiple posts about the non specialised approach alot of the ships have, effectivly limit its tanking ability for example is the only thing mini ships got going for them their speed and alpha strike ? or am i missing something ? :)
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.11 14:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Darqion Zenix is the only thing mini ships got going for them their speed and alpha strike ? or am i missing something ? :) Yes you are. It's just that the minmatar forum brigade is a strong one. For example you'll very frequently hear minmatar whine about their small capacitator that makes their ships useless. When in fact minmatar and gallante has pretty much exactly the same cap. As well as CPU/grid. As for the phoon... WTF? Gabriel Karade is quite on it. It's the biggest paradox there is in EVE: Ppl whine whine whine about how good an armor tanked dominix is and whine whine whine about how useless a typhoon is. When the obvious fact is that these 2 ships are pretty much exactly the same. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me

smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:32:00 - [51] Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:35:00 - [52] Exceopt that a 10% bonus to drones is far better than a split weapon bonus that affect 4 guns with each one. remove guns ROF bonus and put a drone bonus, or an armor resist bonus and no one wil complain about it ever again. Or somethign like 5 rof bonus to missiles and 5% damage bonus to explosive missiles ( so caldari dotn start to whine). And give it 5 launchers. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:38:00 - [53] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb care to explain how the astarte will keep up with sleipnir dps when the sleipnir can rule range and keep at 18 km ? Sacrifice 1 middle for a 20km scram. And the sleipnir can laugh at the astarte. At 18 km astarte damage will be pathetic for slaipnir tank with only 4 tank slots (2 Invul II, 1 L. Shield Booster II, 1 DC II) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:39:00 - [54] Originally by: dalman It's the biggest paradox there is in EVE: Ppl whine whine whine about how good an armor tanked dominix is and whine whine whine about how useless a typhoon is. When the obvious fact is that these 2 ships are pretty much exactly the same. Yeah the phoon and the domi are on a par. Which is why I stopped flying the typhoon 3 years ago and trained up gallente bs 4. Lets see... Domi gets a 25% bonus to all of its high slots and 50% more damage to drones. The phoon gets a 25% bonus to all of its high slots and... oh no wait that's all it gets. SPLIT WEAPONS BONUS KILLED MY INNER CHILD. sgb
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:54:00 - [55] LOL YEAH MINNIE SUCK, BOOST MINNIE!! ___________________________________
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.11 17:13:00 - [56] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb care to explain how the astarte will keep up with sleipnir dps when the sleipnir can rule range and keep at 18 km ? Sacrifice 1 middle for a 20km scram. And the sleipnir can laugh at the astarte. At 18 km astarte damage will be pathetic for slaipnir tank with only 4 tank slots (2 Invul II, 1 L. Shield Booster II, 1 DC II) Because dps at 18ks is really going to break an even half-assed astarte tank. Not to mention the fact that the astarte will have a mwd on, making it both possible (althouth unlikely against a skilled pilot) to get into web range, and also extremely easy to get away. Do you guys actually fly minmatar ships? They are not as bad as some of the whiners make out, but the phoon is broken except for nano-bs purposes, and the other ships are generally outclassed by their equivilent in other races. sgb
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.11 20:07:00 - [57] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb SGB, you are selectivly blind. 1) The absolution has roughly the same resistance to minmatar tech 2 ammo on armor as the minnies do to amarr on shield[not count ship bonus due to rep bonus on minnie]. On armor its a joke. The differecen is that if minmatar want to shoot thermal damage[Which, along with EM will be the absolutions lowest resist] it can! And if Amarr wants to shoot explosive damage... it cant. 2) When fitting for gang work, the sliepnir has the most DPS and the best tank of all the command ships. I mean, have you ever considered that the Absolution, which has the next best tank compared to the Sliepnir cant even hope to fit an XL equivelent booster? Which is equivelent to two large armor repairers[when boosted with an SBII]. At best the absolution is going to have two MARIIs for half the repping speed and about 80% of the repping efficiency. And in order to have this, its got to sacrifice significant amount of gank. The Sliepnir is a great ship. Its not a solopwnmobile, but aside from the gallente ships, none of the other command ships are either. And, as its primary role as a gang ship, It does in fact bring both damage and tank to the table, in prodigius amounts ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.11 22:15:00 - [58] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: dalman It's the biggest paradox there is in EVE: Ppl whine whine whine about how good an armor tanked dominix is and whine whine whine about how useless a typhoon is. When the obvious fact is that these 2 ships are pretty much exactly the same. Yeah the phoon and the domi are on a par. Which is why I stopped flying the typhoon 3 years ago and trained up gallente bs 4. Lets see... Domi gets a 25% bonus to all of its high slots and 50% more damage to drones. The phoon gets a 25% bonus to all of its high slots and... oh no wait that's all it gets. SPLIT WEAPONS BONUS KILLED MY INNER CHILD. sgb Uh, what? Are you flying your domi with 6x large hybrids? If not, then why don't you compare your domi with a similiar set up phoon? And then also, note how you go "whine whine split bonus on phoon that I can't use". But note that the dominix is also a case of split bonus that you can't use! If you are running your domi with 6x L hybrids I'm very surprised, cause there are many other ships much better suited for that (you can't fit a real armor tank cause of grid, and shield tanking it isn't really that hot unless you know the hostile(s) will arrive in range. But basicly, for a non-nano phoon you should fit a 7-slot armor tank IMO. Depending on if you're in a gang or solo, you can pick an ac-missile setup (that with drones does respectable DPS without damage mods) or a nos-missile/ac setup that very well rival a typical nos-domi. Note that your phoon has one more slot than the domi, and the high base-speed of the phoon is indeed very useful to dictate range. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.11 23:09:00 - [59] Here is the single answer needed to this whole thread: -If you are hopeless at pvp but you insist on pvping and hence go into battle activating everything and hoping for the best, oblivious to whats going on around you, then minmattar is the crappy race. -If you know what you are doing and are going to win or lose on really slim margins taken advantage of to the max, then minmattar is the best race. Now as to why minnie guys whine so much on the forums: Simply their ships are impossible to use effectively for noobs and as a result they are trained in the fine arts of whinage from a noob age. You cant teach an old dog new tricks... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.11 23:17:00 - [60] I dont know, people complain about matar ships sucking but when you look at each ship type matar ships hold a top or near top spot in each one. bar maybe a couple. frigate - rifter is uber Inty's - close but matar ones are very good. AF's - same again cruisers - stabber & ruppy both good, rup considered one of the best. BC's - both pretty awesome, nothing to complain about. BS's - Phoon, currently overpowered. Hope it does not get nerfed too much. Still a good damage platform when not nanoed. and so on... When you think about it they are quite uber, but the drawback is they do require a lot of skills to use. Mostly because some shield tank and others armor tank. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?

Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.03.11 23:32:00 - [61] i wonder at what level the "suckage" of a low skilled minie pilot starts to show. i havent PVPed yet but doing missions in minmatar ships hasnt been that hard yet and my skills are FAR from special. tho i think htat if you know what you want, you can become good due to specialisation to one certain ship offcourse
Kehmor Caldari The Movement	Posted - 2007.03.12 00:26:00 - [62] uh the mael pwns. Like really, I wish i could fly one. Heres a hint, don't use artillery and don't try and fly it solo.
Dai Kyoko	Posted - 2007.03.12 00:29:00 - [63] pest killer fitting: 6 arti II-2 nos mwd-20k+ scram- 3 muon damps 2 gyro II-1 LAR II-2 istabs-1 exp hardner 2 ccc-1 agility rig if it fits (not 100%) sit 20km away from your target and just hammer them.. speed means you can run, damps mean you dont get hit, artis mean you choose range, 20+ scram keeps you in control.. use this setup when hunting for top results -------------------------------- Quantity of ore stolen today - 30k m3
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.12 01:31:00 - [64] Originally by: Dai Kyoko pest killer fitting: 6 arti II-2 nos mwd-20k+ scram- 3 muon damps 2 gyro II-1 LAR II-2 istabs-1 exp hardner 2 ccc-1 agility rig if it fits (not 100%) sit 20km away from your target and just hammer them.. speed means you can run, damps mean you dont get hit, artis mean you choose range, 20+ scram keeps you in control.. use this setup when hunting for top results I wonder if a good AF pilot would kill you solo... a wolf with a small nos or Iskur porbably would Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.12 02:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Dai Kyoko pest killer fitting: 6 arti II-2 nos mwd-20k+ scram- 3 muon damps 2 gyro II-1 LAR II-2 istabs-1 exp hardner 2 ccc-1 agility rig if it fits (not 100%) sit 20km away from your target and just hammer them.. speed means you can run, damps mean you dont get hit, artis mean you choose range, 20+ scram keeps you in control.. use this setup when hunting for top results I wonder if a good AF pilot would kill you solo... a wolf with a small nos or Iskur porbably would Not with two heavy NOS, that will pretty much neutralize two tacklers. Though to be honest, i dont know just how valuable 1200 arties are going to be with only two gyros. I mean, ive killed things with 1200s before, but nothing of serious size, and anything that isnt that large is not going to be hit at close range without a web. At least, if its paying attention. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.12 02:47:00 - [66] Why are you suggesting using artilleries to orbit at 20km? You can do the same thing with autocannons and barrage, and you'll a.) actually hit your target, because autocannon tracking doesn't suck like artillery tracking does, and b.) hit harder, since autocannons are short-ranged weapons. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.12 03:22:00 - [67] Originally by: Wrayeth Why are you suggesting using artilleries to orbit at 20km? You can do the same thing with autocannons and barrage, and you'll a.) actually hit your target, because autocannon tracking doesn't suck like artillery tracking does, and b.) hit harder, since autocannons are short-ranged weapons. I am not, I am questioning the choice ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.12 04:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Goumindong I am not, I am questioning the choice Sorry - forgot to quote the guy who suggested the setup. That's the person I was referring to. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Ecky X The Aforementioned	Posted - 2007.03.12 05:30:00 - [69] I think the problem with Minmatar BATTLEships becomes obvious when you try to compare them to Gallente ships. You generally can't go head to head with them, you'll lose (if you don't have a lot more SP). Other Minmatar ships are fine. Typhoon vs Dominix: Domi has a damage bonus for drones, Typhoon has more highslots, so they are equal in damage. Domi and Typhoon both have 7 lowslots, so they can tank the same, right? Well, not if you want to use torps on your Phoon. Domi and Phoon both have .... wait a second, the Dominix has more midslots! Typhoon vs Megathron: To start, Blasters do 25% more base damage than autocannons, at the expense of cap use. Mega has 3000 more powergrid, same midslots, and your damage mods affect ALL of your weapons. To get similar damage with a Typhoon, you need to use twice the number of lowslots. Typhoon has a bigger drone bay? Uhuh, yea, the Mega can use 5 heavy drones too. Tank? Phoon has less powergrid, needs more lowslots for damage mods. Tempest vs Megathron: Mega does more damage with its highslots, has a stronger tank, can hold more drones. Tempest has an additional highslot for... what, a NOS? One NOS won't make much of a difference... and an extra midslot. If you're going to be going 1v1 with a Mega, throwing a racial ECM on there might give you an edge, but otherwise the Megathron will kick your butt. For sniping? Tempest does a great job, but really... whats to stop your enemy from warping away? This isn't a very effective form of PvP. Hyperion: Same as Megathron Maelstrom: No good for solo. Great tank, but ewar can be a lot more useful than tank in many cases. It has its uses, and fills some roles Minmatar didn't have a ship for. Tanking, and tanking. Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. But, I don't think Minmatar Battleships are bad. You just have to play sneaky. In small gang fights, I often stick 2 large remote armor reps on my Pest. Pretty nasty suprise for an enemy gang. It has an extra midslot for ewar. Don't underestimate how useful an ECM can be.... even if you can only jam your enemy 25% of the time, you're reducing his damage by 25%. You can also easily fit a sensor booster without gimping the rest of your setup, which can be very useful. The Tempest is Minmatar's classic Battleship. With the Typhoon, you have to play dirty. I use it mostly in fast moving frig and Cruiser gangs, with nanofibers. It does everything a Cruiser can do, but better. Maelstrom - I use it for 2 things: mining, and station games. It really bothers people when you undock to a 10-man gang outside of a station, and engage... blow one of the weaker ones up, and then tank the rest until you can dock up again. It could make good bait, perhaps.
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.12 06:59:00 - [70] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb care to explain how the astarte will keep up with sleipnir dps when the sleipnir can rule range and keep at 18 km ? Sacrifice 1 middle for a 20km scram. And the sleipnir can laugh at the astarte. At 18 km astarte damage will be pathetic for slaipnir tank with only 4 tank slots (2 Invul II, 1 L. Shield Booster II, 1 DC II) Because dps at 18ks is really going to break an even half-assed astarte tank. Not to mention the fact that the astarte will have a mwd on, making it both possible (althouth unlikely against a skilled pilot) to get into web range, and also extremely easy to get away. Do you guys actually fly minmatar ships? They are not as bad as some of the whiners make out, but the phoon is broken except for nano-bs purposes, and the other ships are generally outclassed by their equivilent in other races. sgb Yeah, because it's not like the Sleipnir is faster and gets a range bonus or anything... Oh, and it totally doesn't hit the galente's t2 weakspot dmg type with its guns. Nope, not at all. ----

goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.12 07:37:00 - [71] Ok first off,i will leave nonaphoons out of this...Its obvious why. As for the tempest,that thing could either have a killer tank,a nice gank,or a nice alpha strike....I mean you have two bonuses to your arts/autos. And the maelstrom,it is possible to pvp with it,but it might be difficult and may require a tackler...But,its a killer mission runner,nice shield tank,good damage with arts,could do all damage types etc... Now for the rest of the ships... Vaga-nice hit and run Munnin-good dps/alpha strike but is kinda like riding the short bus armor tanking. Huggin-webbing is nice. Rapier-webbing and cloak is nic-er. Stabber-nice hit and run like the vaga. Rupture-nice passive armor tank. scythe= Nidhogger-could use work i guess. Naglfar-good dps kinda gimp tank. stiletto-4 mids.....Enough said. Claw-errr plates? rifter-very fast frig. vigil-even faster. thrasher-nice alpha strike. Sabre-IT HAS 7 TURRETS \o/. So on and so forth,you might say i didnt add in their gimpness,well,if something has a quality which is nice then it has a purpose. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.03.12 08:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Ecky X I think the problem with Minmatar BATTLEships becomes obvious when you try to compare them to Gallente ships. You generally can't go head to head with them, you'll lose (if you don't have a lot more SP). Other Minmatar ships are fine. Typhoon vs Dominix: Domi has a damage bonus for drones, Typhoon has more highslots, so they are equal in damage. Domi and Typhoon both have 7 lowslots, so they can tank the same, right? Well, not if you want to use torps on your Phoon. Domi and Phoon both have .... wait a second, the Dominix has more midslots! Typhoon vs Megathron: To start, Blasters do 25% more base damage than autocannons, at the expense of cap use. Mega has 3000 more powergrid, same midslots, and your damage mods affect ALL of your weapons. To get similar damage with a Typhoon, you need to use twice the number of lowslots. Typhoon has a bigger drone bay? Uhuh, yea, the Mega can use 5 heavy drones too. Tank? Phoon has less powergrid, needs more lowslots for damage mods. Tempest vs Megathron: Mega does more damage with its highslots, has a stronger tank, can hold more drones. Tempest has an additional highslot for... what, a NOS? One NOS won't make much of a difference... and an extra midslot. If you're going to be going 1v1 with a Mega, throwing a racial ECM on there might give you an edge, but otherwise the Megathron will kick your butt. For sniping? Tempest does a great job, but really... whats to stop your enemy from warping away? This isn't a very effective form of PvP. Typhoon vs Dominix, the Dominix requires an RCU II to fit the smallest tier of large blasters and a 5-slot (single repairer) armour tank, the Typhoon as I pointed out earlier can fit 4x Siege II, 4x 425mm II and a 7-slot armour tank. In terms of a Blaster-Dominix that 5th midslot is no longer the advantage it used to be... Typhoon vs. Megathron, you're better off not trying to compete with the damage output of the Megathron, the setup I posted does a good 400+ dps less than a decent Ion II Megathron (5-slot tank, 2 damage mods), but a fight between the two is pretty evenly matched (actually favours the Typhoon slightly) if you go for the 7-slot tank option. Tempest vs. Megathron, granted the extra mid-slot isn't quite as useful as it once was, though the biggest killer of Tempest pilots I find, is charging straight into web range and trying to have a stationary slugging match... To be honest, the Typhoon makes a better BS killer in a close range configuration, though the Tempest is better vs. smaller ships (two nosferatu, majority of damage output from ACÆs rather than torpedos) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
SengH Black Omega Security GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.03.12 08:01:00 - [73] Originally by: Kehmor uh the mael pwns my wallet. Like really, I wish i could afford fly one. Heres a hint, look @ the price of t2 artillery and get a clue Fixed. For the price of 2 t2 fitted maels you can get a machariel.
Dai Kyoko	Posted - 2007.03.12 08:07:00 - [74] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Dai Kyoko pest killer fitting: 6 arti II-2 nos mwd-20k+ scram- 3 muon damps 2 gyro II-1 LAR II-2 istabs-1 exp hardner 2 ccc-1 agility rig if it fits (not 100%) sit 20km away from your target and just hammer them.. speed means you can run, damps mean you dont get hit, artis mean you choose range, 20+ scram keeps you in control.. use this setup when hunting for top results I wonder if a good AF pilot would kill you solo... a wolf with a small nos or Iskur porbably would Ever tried to get in range and stay there with 3 damps, 5 med drones, 2 nos sapping away at you? Originally by: Wrayeth Why are you suggesting using artilleries to orbit at 20km? You can do the same thing with autocannons and barrage, and you'll a.) actually hit your target, because autocannon tracking doesn't suck like artillery tracking does, and b.) hit harder, since autocannons are short-ranged weapons. who said anything about orbiting ? -------------------------------- Quantity of ore stolen today - 30k m3
SwitchBl4d3 Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.12 08:07:00 - [75] Everything is balanced, you may have to find where the balance lies, but everything is balanced. Originally by: Stavros BUNGLE IN JUNGLE? J tHX OMG YEAH CHICKEN WINGS K? LOLLER SKATESWIHT LUBE K? MIUOINKEYT!!!
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:12:00 - [76] Originally by: SwitchBl4d3 Everything is balanced, you may have to find where the balance lies, but everything is balanced. Balance this: ///////////////// Rupture 4x 220mm II's with hail 2x small nos (to keep web n scram running) MWD Scram web SAR II Gyro II EANM DCU 1600mm rolled tungusten + 1x Valkyrie II & 4x Warrior II's AWU 5 needed, but fits with AWU 4 if you downgrade 1 gun to dual 180mm. ///////////////// BOOST MINMATAR^TM!!!!eleven! ___________________________________
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:33:00 - [77] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Kehmor uh the mael pwns my wallet. Like really, I wish i could afford fly one. Heres a hint, look @ the price of t2 artillery and get a clue Fixed. For the price of 2 t2 fitted maels you can get a machariel. Price of arties is irrelevent since you want to be fitting autocannons on your gang maelstrom. Personally, i am going to wager that a lot of people would rather have two tech 2 fitted battleships than one faction battleship without anything fitted on it. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Darqion Zenix i wonder at what level the "suckage" of a low skilled minie pilot starts to show. i havent PVPed yet but doing missions in minmatar ships hasnt been that hard yet and my skills are FAR from special. tho i think htat if you know what you want, you can become good due to specialisation to one certain ship offcourse It starts to show when you go pvp :) Missions are easy up to level 4, at which point you should really use a raven. sgb
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:47:00 - [79] Originally by: Ren Tales Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: mematar Sleipnir sucks? Did I hear that somewhere while reading? Sleipnir will rip Astarte and Eos apart in 1on1, same for Absolution. No it won't. Reason being it does less dps that both astarte and eos, and needs to sacrifice tank for tackling. Absolution just has too high resistances to minnie t2 ammo to do anything to it, on the other hand Absolution dps isn't that great. Don't get me wrong, the sleip is a great ship. It's just not on a par with the other CS. 720s are nice with it, providing your target is cruiser sized and sitting stil: I'll take out cruisers in one volley sometimes. On the other hand, cruiser arty platforms have to be within 30ks to be effective, at which point you might as well fit for close range autocannons and a better tank anyway. The sleip simply needs too much cap to function on a par with the other command ships (mwd and xl booster together really hurt). sgb care to explain how the astarte will keep up with sleipnir dps when the sleipnir can rule range and keep at 18 km ? Sacrifice 1 middle for a 20km scram. And the sleipnir can laugh at the astarte. At 18 km astarte damage will be pathetic for slaipnir tank with only 4 tank slots (2 Invul II, 1 L. Shield Booster II, 1 DC II) Because dps at 18ks is really going to break an even half-assed astarte tank. Not to mention the fact that the astarte will have a mwd on, making it both possible (althouth unlikely against a skilled pilot) to get into web range, and also extremely easy to get away. Do you guys actually fly minmatar ships? They are not as bad as some of the whiners make out, but the phoon is broken except for nano-bs purposes, and the other ships are generally outclassed by their equivilent in other races. sgb Yeah, because it's not like the Sleipnir is faster and gets a range bonus or anything... Oh, and it totally doesn't hit the galente's t2 weakspot dmg type with its guns. Nope, not at all. Falloff with barrage is about 20ks with excellent skills. So 18ks is getting to the 30% miss mark. dps at optimal with barrage is about 550. So you're looking at about 450-500 dps. Realistically, a tanked astarte will have filled the exp hole in his armor with a t2 exp hardner, and probably an EANMII on top of that, giving him about 60-65% exp resistance. So, pulling the numbers out of my head, you'll be doing about 200-250 dps to him. How much does a single MARII rep? And how many astartes have just the one on? Bearing in mind that you're using barrage ammo so you will have taken about 20-30 seconds to get through his shields. The faster base speed is useful, but i've taken out 4k/s crows in my 1.5k/s rupture. It's not as easy at it looks to keep that kinda range difference with only a few hundred meters per second speed advantage. I'm not saying the sleipinir can't win 1v1 vs an astarte. I'm saying to do so you need to be 1) a highly skilled pilot. 2) lucky enough not to land in web range (if you do you are dead since you can't fit a web and a scram and a mwd and a tank) 3) lucky enough for him to not be near a gate / station and just tank and dock/jump and 4) if you are in a random belt or something, good enough that he won't just mwd at you, then away from you, get out of scram range and warp off. I've flown the sleip a lot, and with some other skilled minnie pilots. It's a good ship, but it doesn't come near the astarte or eos's dps or the absolution / nighthawk's tank. The lack of tackling also gimps it. sgb
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.12 10:31:00 - [80] What are you nuts? Its not a linear drop. Its a curve. A high skilled Sleipnir with barrage and falloff rigs can have 18 km falloff. That is 65% of its base damage. At that range it will COMPLETELY outdps the astarte (remember its a shield tanker so for sure 3 gyro II). And you will NEVER see any sleipnir without an MWD (in fact the only minmatar ship i consider to not use MWD is the maesltrom). That and an extra NOS to help things go faster down the drain. It takes a lot of time but the astarte will have its tank broken and it won't break slepnir tank. Granted that is a 7 minutes or more fight... On the Tempest vs Megathron.. who teached you to use an Autopest? An autopest WILL DECIDE range against a megathron. So it will employ same trick and fight at about 18-19 km where it outdamages the Megathron. The 2 (not 1) extra NOS will pretty much be all the difference between victory and defeat. Also youd mid slot may be a tracking disruptopr that will tip the range balance even more to your side. Minmatar ships for sure are not get close sit there and fire until something dies (well maybe the maesltrom is the exception , but that ship is nuts ). You need to be more subtle and pacient. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.12 10:43:00 - [81] Originally by: Kagura Nikon What are you nuts? Its not a linear drop. Its a curve. A high skilled Sleipnir with barrage and falloff rigs can have 18 km falloff. That is 65% of its base damage. At that range it will COMPLETELY outdps the astarte (remember its a shield tanker so for sure 3 gyro II). And you will NEVER see any sleipnir without an MWD (in fact the only minmatar ship i consider to not use MWD is the maesltrom). That and an extra NOS to help things go faster down the drain. It takes a lot of time but the astarte will have its tank broken and it won't break slepnir tank. Granted that is a 7 minutes or more fight... Please read my post again? The sleip gets 70% of base damage at 18ks (which is what I put). It will completely out dps the astarte (correct). It will have a mwd (usually, although there are some nice gang setups without). It will have a nos (gang mod actually, not much point in a nos if you're fighting at 18ks). I agree with all of that. However, for the reasons I stated above the sleipnir will still generally not beat an astarte. Here are the reasons summarized: 1) the astarte's tank is equal to the sleip's dps at 15-20ks. 2) the astarte just needs one web cycle to screw the sleip over. 3) if the sleip stays out of web range the astarte can either try and catch him out (see point 2) or simply mwd towards then away and warp off. Not even counting engagements on gates and station (disengage and tank). The sleip is a good gang ship, but not as good as the astarte. The sleip is a bad solo ship. The sleip has an ok tank, but not as good at the nighthawk or absolution. The sleip has good dps but not as good as the astarte. You seeing my point yet? sgb
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.12 20:13:00 - [82] Edited by: Goumindong on 12/03/2007 20:12:00 Originally by: smallgreenblur Edited by: smallgreenblur on 12/03/2007 19:57:36 Woah at which point did I say the abso out-ganks the sleip? The sleip is better at gank than the abso, but worse at tanking. It's worse at ganking than the astarte but slightly better at tanking. The issue I have with it is that, like the maelstrom it is an excellent gang ship, but it can't be used solo. Not effectively, at any rate. I would like at least on occasion for minnie ships to be armor tankers, or at least passive resist shield. i know this messes up the symmetry of the races, but I'm getting annoyed at 'having' to fit a shield tank. I am well aware of the benifit of gank/tank, i use it a lot, but being the 'flexible race' and having that as the only fitting is bloody annoying. sgb Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest, Rifter, Tyhpoon can all fit just fine armor tanks[and some can fit very strong ones, like the phoon, and the cane]. The Vagabond could as well with 5 lows and 4 mids while having a hawt tackling setup[fast, light, injected, double rep, low DPS is the tradeoff with strong armor tank] if it werent so bloody expensive. Blame the ship for being easily the best HAC when setup for speed as opposed to being a bad fit for an armor tanking solo boat[especialy since its so fast its armor resistances are perfectly taylored for dealing with the ships likly to hit it at its orbit area] Not every ship should be able to armor tank or shield tank. Be glad that the ones that armor tank do it well, and the ones that sheild tank do it well. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Crux Australis Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.12 20:37:00 - [83] Originally by: maarud Originally by: maarud There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Found the pilots name: Crux Australis Wow 1st (and probably) last time in which I get mentioned on eve-o for something 'meritory' hehe. I remember those fights, they were fun, veeeeery close and all of them had quite an unexpected result (I would prolly have won even if by few hundreds of HPs; tbh, I am still asking myself why I wasn't getting raped :P ) Not that I have had my 5 secs of celebrity I can crawl back under my hole. /me bows and fades in the daek... Originally by: Tuxford Sure play gallente and caldari if you like, just don't be upset when I waste your ass in a hurricane.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.12 21:05:00 - [84] My only gripe with the phoon is fitting limitations..bit more base pg/cpu and it will be fine.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.12 22:25:00 - [85] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 12/03/2007 20:12:00 Originally by: smallgreenblur Edited by: smallgreenblur on 12/03/2007 19:57:36 Woah at which point did I say the abso out-ganks the sleip? The sleip is better at gank than the abso, but worse at tanking. It's worse at ganking than the astarte but slightly better at tanking. The issue I have with it is that, like the maelstrom it is an excellent gang ship, but it can't be used solo. Not effectively, at any rate. I would like at least on occasion for minnie ships to be armor tankers, or at least passive resist shield. i know this messes up the symmetry of the races, but I'm getting annoyed at 'having' to fit a shield tank. I am well aware of the benifit of gank/tank, i use it a lot, but being the 'flexible race' and having that as the only fitting is bloody annoying. sgb Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest, Rifter, Tyhpoon can all fit just fine armor tanks[and some can fit very strong ones, like the phoon, and the cane]. The Vagabond could as well with 5 lows and 4 mids while having a hawt tackling setup[fast, light, injected, double rep, low DPS is the tradeoff with strong armor tank] if it werent so bloody expensive. Blame the ship for being easily the best HAC when setup for speed as opposed to being a bad fit for an armor tanking solo boat[especialy since its so fast its armor resistances are perfectly taylored for dealing with the ships likly to hit it at its orbit area] Not every ship should be able to armor tank or shield tank. Be glad that the ones that armor tank do it well, and the ones that sheild tank do it well. Yeah I guess, I'm just griping that all the minnie 'shiny' ships - mael, sleip, clay - have to shield tank or you lose the massive bonus. At least with a passive bonus you still get it even without fitting any modules. sgb
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.12 23:00:00 - [86] Edited by: Goumindong on 12/03/2007 22:57:32 That is fair, I feel the same way on a lot of things. On the other hand, you could get an ammo use reduction bonus on your autocannons instead ;) Heck, Gallente get the same type of bonus, but in order to use it most effectivly, they have to sacrifice part of the other, ganking, bonus that their ships get. Then again, i shouldnt be doing the "it could be worse" thing since the Abaddon was definitly CCP/Tuxfords way of saying "Hey, it could be worse, the bonus could not be there!" ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Famine Aligher'ri V i L e DREAD.	Posted - 2007.03.13 00:34:00 - [87] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 13/03/2007 00:31:54 Minmatar is fine, it has awesome DPS at longer ranges with short range gunnery. Just can't utilize it as well without faction warfare. V i L e - Recruiting Pirates
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:02:00 - [88] Yeah, amarr def need a boost to that rather pointless bonus you get to most of your ships. Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 13/03/2007 00:31:54 Minmatar is fine, it has awesome DPS at longer ranges with short range gunnery. Just can't utilize it as well without faction warfare. Minmatar are ok now, but I still feel slightly gimped by the fact that we are the fastest race yet our tackle and our tank are in the same slots... sgb
Kaleeb S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.03.13 22:50:00 - [89] Well my main concern is the pest, Seriously why bother flying it when you have the hyperion that does way more dmg, isnt much slower and tanks a hell a lot better. Tempest needs something extra without making it too powerful. On that note all tier II bs's are pretty much redundant now
Lesican Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:30:00 - [90] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. It rips holes in planets, but requires excellent fitting skills/drone skills/ missiles and guns. Thats why I love minmatar ships though, takes skill to fly how they where designed.

Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.14 01:41:00 - [91] Edited by: Arian Snow on 14/03/2007 01:38:48 edit 'pffft' bugged boards ... ----------------------------------------------- I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:14:00 - [92] Originally by: Lesican Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. It rips holes in planets, but requires excellent fitting skills/drone skills/ missiles and guns. Thats why I love minmatar ships though, takes skill to fly how they where designed. sgb cries at having to use SIX low slots and EIGHT high slots to get slightly less dps than a blasterdomi or blaster mega, and slightly more dps than an A/C tempy or maelstrom.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:40:00 - [93] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Lesican Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 09/03/2007 13:17:48 Hang on, you still think Minmatar are underpowered as a whole? Haha. Can't you (not directed at anyone in particular) use your Typhoons 8 highs for weapons instead of nos and all those lows for damage instead of nanos/i-stabs? I honestly have no idea and don't claim to be an expert, but to me the Typhoon looks like a damage monster. It just seems that everyones too busy flying 'flavour of the month' to try it out. 8 weapons, 6 damage mods, 5 heavy drones and a mid slot tank, gank or tank, the old fashioned way. Possible? I'm listening. Obviously no tackle so you'd fly it like a Raven. It rips holes in planets, but requires excellent fitting skills/drone skills/ missiles and guns. Thats why I love minmatar ships though, takes skill to fly how they where designed. sgb cries at having to use SIX low slots and EIGHT high slots to get slightly less dps than a blasterdomi or blaster mega, and slightly more dps than an A/C tempy or maelstrom. On the plus side you have nearly full control of your damage type. On the other plus side, the metagame fitting suggests that the two strongest builds for a phoon are going to be a nano ship or a 7 slot tank with NOS. Which means that in medium sized gangs you are unlikly to be called primary early in the battle so you can put your very high DPS that you can flip around to different damage types to its best use since heavy tank ships and nano-ships are unlikly to be called primary early on[due to low DPS and difficulty in killing] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:45:00 - [94] Originally by: Crux Australis Originally by: maarud Originally by: maarud There is a pilot in your corp called "Crux.." something, can't remember last name. Ask him for phoon setups. When I was in BYDI (under a diffrent char) I saw him go toe to toe with a blaster mega and it was a complete standoff... and this is vs one of the best mega pilots i have ever seen. Found the pilots name: Crux Australis Wow 1st (and probably) last time in which I get mentioned on eve-o for something 'meritory' hehe. I remember those fights, they were fun, veeeeery close and all of them had quite an unexpected result (I would prolly have won even if by few hundreds of HPs; tbh, I am still asking myself why I wasn't getting raped :P ) Not that I have had my 5 secs of celebrity I can crawl back under my hole. /me bows and fades in the daek... I'm a pretty experienced Typhoon pilot, but I'm always open to new set-ups. I'm also "+" to BoB, would you mind mailing me your set-up in game?


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