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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Ageanal Olerie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2016.07.25 09:54:03 -
[1] - Quote
Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
316
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:07:03 -
[2] - Quote
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/12215635.jpg
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
338
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:13:23 -
[3] - Quote
Decloaking people in a slow industrial is not that hard. Let's not assume cheats are involved, just because you got caught with too much cargo in a T1 indy. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3449
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:26:48 -
[4] - Quote
If you do a forum search for other threads on this topic you will find out why all your ideas are actually bad for the game and end up punishing the people who aren't ganking while virtually not touching the gankers. |
Major Xadi
Mercenary Logistics Ltd.
59
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Posted - 2016.07.25 10:28:59 -
[5] - Quote
This is the game as created and intended to be. Danger can lurk behind every gate. Play the game.....or don't. But don't call for the fundamental character of the game to be changed. And some folks are just plain good at certain things like piloting their ships. Doesn't mean they are cheating.
You took a loss. Ok, so have many in this game. Sometimes it hurts. I know, a couple losses on my killboard due to my carelessness really hurt. Take a breath, rethink what you're doing and do it smarter. You can be a better player and the game can stay the same.
Seriously, some folks who wander in here seem like they would want the rules of chess to be changed because someone will capture their pieces. They just want to move pieces around a board and be left in peace. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:51:57 -
[6] - Quote
What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? |
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:55:39 -
[7] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
What where you flying and what was the fit? |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
783
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Posted - 2016.07.25 11:56:28 -
[8] - Quote
It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch!
CCP Falcon wrote:Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?
CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.
If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.
Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.
CCP Falcon wrote:Being unprepared and putting all your eggs in one basket to make a nice juicy target for a suicide gank is the joke here, not highsec.
There are a multitude of ways to protect yourself from suicide gankers, people just automatically assume they're "safe" in highsec, then get annoyed when they lose a ship because of their own lack of spatial awareness.
CCP Falcon wrote:I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.
Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.
Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.
That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.
EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3452
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 12:02:18 -
[9] - Quote
xttz wrote:It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch! Quite frankly Falcon is out of touch with the normal players experience with EVE. He belonged to the 1% when he played EVE, and as a Dev the loudest voices he hears are the 1% still. Doesn't invalidate some of his points, but he really has lost touch and some of his quotes aren't actually an appropriate answer. |
Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:03:36 -
[10] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so.
If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. |
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:09:36 -
[11] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
I'm pretty sure we talked in-game and you had a very wrong fit. EVE is a sandbox, everyone could do whatever they want ... sure CCP could deny dock / medical clone to hisec gankers having sec status lower than a value but that won't stop completely the gank at all, but will add some extra work / cost for gankers in order to fix their sec status (buying concord tags), therefore ... MORE ganks!
I do agree that CCP could do more in order to avoid hisec ganks like having concord on-grid for > 0.8 security systems in order to have an immediate action against gankers, but that wouldn't stop gankers either - they'll simply use more ships.
Anyway, there are solutions of course, but CCP won't do anything cause they're just don't care about the player-base - or maybe they will when the PLEX will hit 1.5-2.0 Billion ISK and they'll have less subscribers - ultil then ... stay away from JITA (alternatives: Dodixie, Amarr, Hek) fit your ship properly or just quit the game at all if it doesn't give you any satisfaction / fun at all. Playing should bring joy and satisfaction, if you mined several days for that cargo and you got blown up by a gate camp ... I'm sure that is far from any satisfaction for you ...
CCP won't give a dime, live with it.
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Wrench Conne
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:12:49 -
[12] - Quote
I understand how you feel sort of. The first day I played the game I joined the Horde and was shipped off to the other side of the galaxy away from any sort of security and I regularly mine in systems around O1Y. Take a look at that system, and imagine mining asteroids that are visited at least every half hour by pirates and are almost constantly under attack by people searching for their next gank. This is how the game is played and if you've played any other online MMOs you will have noticed that each of them usually start out awesome but slowly make things easier and easier cause people complain until skill is no longer a factor. This is something that we don't want to happen in this game. |
Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
23
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:16:36 -
[13] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Oddly
LOADS!!!
Firstly, the map will tell you if alot of ships have been lost in a system, can you also check Zkills for the same info, if you see a lot of kills pick another route.
Secondly. Don't be a scrub, invest in a second account as a scout.. if your RL budget doesn't extend to the that, use a trial account.
Third, Don't be a scrub, invest in a blockade runner
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Lucy Icecream
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:22:02 -
[14] - Quote
Safety should not be there. A gun boat should shoot a paper hauler between seconds ... also OK!
The problem is not the system itself. It can't be harder to gank a paper ship , but ...
However the problem is the faction police, which is doing nothing against the bad security status. The written message at entering the space is the only thing which is popping up.
Why is the faction police not putting some extra gate guns at each gate and shoot the pirates after a few seconds? Or scan down the bad guys and follow them in space? Then the ganker have to repair their security status before they can gank again. This should not be a huge problem for both sides.
Why not putting this in player hands and the players can mount additional gate guns for the faction police. Not putting some money on their head ... just buying a gate gun an mount it at any gate to shoot automatically at players with negative (red) security status or enemies of the faction after the warning message. This will offer a new game play and the industrialists can strike back against the PVP (sorry ganking is not really PVP - it is just shooting against moving targets - like a amusement park) guys.
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Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:27:10 -
[15] - Quote
Lucy Icecream wrote:However the problem is the faction police, which is doing nothing against the bad security status. The written message at entering the space is the only thing which is popping up.
This is not correct. They do shoot and point you if you have bad security status. Faction police is just not as almighty as Concord is. On top of that every player can shoot you without Concord intervention if your security status is too low.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2666
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:32:53 -
[16] - Quote
But where was anti-ganking to save the OP?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:33:06 -
[17] - Quote
Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you.
Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? |
Knitram Relik
Running With Railguns
60
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:33:51 -
[18] - Quote
Hi-Sec Gëá Safe-Sec.
The beauty of Eve that most other games lack is simply this: Your decisions can have real consequences. No safety net. This game isn't for everyone because of this. Ask yourself, "Is it for me?" Don't beg to have it changed to suit your play style. Sack up or move on. |
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:35:52 -
[19] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners. |
Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:41:29 -
[20] - Quote
Ramses Davaham wrote:Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners.
How does that answer my question? |
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
459
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:44:51 -
[21] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote:...At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more)..., The psychiatric community has determined that to run a corporation one must be a sociopath. Did you know that?
To find one sympathetic, or empathetic, to a cause, one must first find one capable of sympathy...or empathy. To find those not only incapable of sympathy, or empathy, but ready and able to ridicule anyone with these capabilities, post in this forum.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
977
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:49:53 -
[22] - Quote
Dibz wrote:
Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
In a gank, it's almost never about active tank, but about buffer. Boost your resists, and your raw EHP, as high as you possibly can. You don't need to be ungankable, you just want to make yourself as unattractive a target as possible.
If you do a lot of hauling, invest in a freighter or deep space transport, and put as much tank on it as you can. Do not put billions of isk of cargo in a single run (my rule is, generally, do not put more cargo in the ship than the insurance payout on the hull, but YMMV). Both of these strategies will help to make you less attractive to the people who are ganking for profit, and they are more likely to wait for a softer and/or more valuable target.
It's like protecting your home from thieves. You can't make your house impossible to break into, but you can make it risky enough that most of the larceny inclined will move onto easier targets and leave you be.
There's really nothing you can do to stop the lulz gankers. That's more a case of wrong place wrong time than anything else.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:50:58 -
[23] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Ramses Davaham wrote:Dibz wrote:Swoop McFly wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Tank the hauler and don't put too much stuff into it. 300 million is too much stuff for a T1 hauler. They will only gank you because you make it profitable for them to do so. (ok, some do it for the lulz, but those people usually don't put much effort into it) If you need to move more expensive stuff either use something with more tank (freighter, deep space transporter) or a blockade runner to warp cloaked. If you don't have those ship available use courier contracts to have someone else move it for you. Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors? Odds are OP was not flying a blockade runner...as they are impervious to cargo scanners. How does that answer my question?
It would be obvious if you read my statement. - But if you really want to know - think about it. They likely scanned you 2 -3 systems back...they usually have spotters along well traveled trade routes...and then spring the trap when the time is right.
The fact they can is irrelevant....the solution is to fly smarter....
There are scanning mods that can scan you without requiring a target lock (as far as you notice on your ship that is) - you want to remove the threat? Remove the temptation.
Natuarlly this doesn't stop them from randomly ganking a blockade runner....but they will pick a juicy Inty V over you if they spot a **** ton of cargo on the inty V. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1919
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 12:53:16 -
[24] - Quote
The simple issue is that as a new low skilled player you are in the game purely to be their fun, you supply them with easy kills, easy money and tears, you end up in easy to kill ships because of low SP and because you are casual you have one account so no scout.
A lot of people have decided that being a easy target is meh and have left the game, you might decide that being an easy kill loot pinata is not for you. And who would blame you?
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Swoop McFly
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
16
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Posted - 2016.07.25 12:54:38 -
[25] - Quote
Dibz wrote:Do they usually take the time to scan and evaluate the cargo? Sounds like the OP got almost insta-popped. How much tank would he have needed to counter two gank Vexors?
They have a character sitting on a gate one or two jump down the pipe and scan you there. When you then pass their ganking characters they already know how much you have in your cargo.
The idea with tanking your hauler is that the gankers need more ships to kill you, which of course makes it more expensive for them. That in turn means that it's only profitable for them if you are carrying enough cargo. More tank -> more cargo you can carry before you become a profitable target. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14307
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:00:47 -
[26] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Some things people could do:
-MWD Cloak Trick works fine. - You can Hull Tank a T1 hauler to an outrageous level now. -You should be double wrapping cargo in anything that isn't a blockade runner - Train for Blockade Runner. - Use Tanked DSP with MJD. -THINK
Of course there are more than 2 kinds of people, but for the purpose of this discussion, there really are only 2 kinds of people:
Folks who come in to a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then say to themselves "OK, there is a knowledge deficit here, what do I need to learn to avoid this happening again?".
And
Folks like the OP, who come into a situation, get beaten by people who know more than they do, then run to the highest authority they can find and claim to be a victim of some gross injustice that can only be fixed with heavy intervention from that authority. The bad thing is that sometimes that authority (in this case, CCP) sometimes does given in just to make the 'victims' go away...which other victim types see...which creates more victim types...
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Judaa K'Marr
Power-Hug Training Bootcamp
18
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:01:21 -
[27] - Quote
1st you were carrying too much. Rule of thumb for a t1 haul is 100mil max and even that is pushing it. If you are in the serious business of hauling get an occator and max buffer tank it which evidence shows very seldom die in high sec in non wardecs.
2nd never cloak and burn *away* from the gate, you are just on the same trajectory as the decloaker and they eventually catch up since they are faster. Burn perpendicular to the gate in a random direction or at least aligning to the thing you want with the mwd+trick. Not perfect but better than just burning away like a lemon.
3rd you can do everything right and still lose just write it off as a cost of business. Real haul companies have to take losses. Think of 0.9-0.7 as Eastern Europe. Technically civilized yet really full of mafia and corrupt border guards and hijackings and whatnot, haul companies know they will take a loss eventually. It's the same with your virtual "high sec" haul business. |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
17
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:07:49 -
[28] - Quote
Jean Luc Clermont wrote:Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Oddly LOADS!!! Firstly, the map will tell you if alot of ships have been lost in a system, can you also check Zkills for the same info, if you see a lot of kills pick another route. Secondly. Don't be a scrub, invest in a second account as a scout.. if your RL budget doesn't extend to the that, use a trial account. Third, Don't be a scrub, invest in a blockade runner
You dont need a blockade runner. The cloaky warp trick works just as well in highsec as it does in low.
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Paranoid Loyd
9304
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:18:11 -
[29] - Quote
Yarr!
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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CCP Falcon
13032
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:21:35 -
[30] - Quote
So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:
In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?
I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.
The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it.
The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers.
You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
24
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:27:29 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it. The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers. You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
what he said... only with less words |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13919
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Posted - 2016.07.25 13:40:57 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking:
In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? Is staple of said interaction must be PKing and:
CCP Falcon wrote:I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. ..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26405
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 13:42:40 -
[33] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers? Know your enemy, most gankers use Gallente ships which deal kinetic and thermal damage. Fit for buffer tank, taking into account the above. Know the high risk areas, Uedama, Nairja, etc. Have a set (r)isk limit, for example I never haul more than 3000 isk for every point of EHP that my hauler has. Never go afk, if you need a break, dock up. Never use the autopilot, gankers love it when you do. Set well known gankers, and ganking groups, to terrible standings using the standings mechanic so that they appear red in local. [*] Use a scout, either an alt or a friend and have them equip a web or 2.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2667
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 13:55:59 -
[34] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13919
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:00:18 -
[35] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17032
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:08:07 -
[36] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl.
Sit down love.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14312
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:09:55 -
[37] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in. CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. Cant jump clone to high.
Yep, that sure does sound like fun in a game that is supposed to be dangerous all the time.
I have a better idea, how about people learn to play (surviving, and thwarting the schemes of those who want to kill you is a big part of the game) rather than trying to figure out how to get CCP to punish people who spent the time to learn how to play?
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14312
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:10:46 -
[38] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What abo0ut ban on high sec for one month CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. You were literaly just told by a dev that your safety is your responsibility, and that tje punative measures taken here are in excess of irl. Sit down love.
Highlighted the problematic (for some people) word there.
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
239
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:xttz wrote:It's time for the weekly Falcon Punch! Quite frankly Falcon is out of touch with the normal players experience with EVE. He belonged to the 1% when he played EVE, and as a Dev the loudest voices he hears are the 1% still. Doesn't invalidate some of his points, but he really has lost touch and some of his quotes aren't actually an appropriate answer.
The 1%? What is this America and income equality debate? If you were to take all the alts of players that live in null and low out of high sec, you would notice a very large drop in actual high sec residents. A majority of the players that live in low and null, and many that live in high sec would consider what Falcon says on this matter to be very much in touch with the community. In fact many players think that high is TOO safe for the income you can make there.
The misconception is that because people see "bears" complain on the forums often about being ganked, killed, or how hard/unfair the game is that that is the general consensus of the player base. And thats untrue. 99% of the people that post on the forums are:
1) Forum regulars, including trolls, that will post/debate various topics and help others with questions. 2) Newbies asking questions 3) People complaining about the game or a game mechanics. These,9 times out of 10, are bears...usually high sec bears that think this game should be more like WoW and less like Eve. Dumbed down, hand holding, with a dev protection blankie surrounding their frail being.
Only a very very small portion of the player base is represented here. CCP tried the carebear route a few years ago. Spending time on a feature that had no business in a game of internet spaceships, because bears whined about wanting it. It went over very badly with the eve player base.
If you want to automatically be the hero of the story, Eve is not for you. If you want AI to guide you through a story, Eve is not for you. If you want the game to create content for you, Eve is not for you. If you want to dress your character up and walk around and interact with others in a social setting as if you were at a virtual club, Eve is not for you. If you want simple linear skills and gameplay, eve is not for you. If you want to play solo, eve is not for you. If you want a "safe place" while you play, eve is not for you. If you want to gain the rewards from pve without incurring any risks from other players, eve is not for you. If you are so attached to your pixels that you cannot stand the thought of losing them, eve is not for you. If you think you can change the game to fit YOUR playstyle rather than adapting to the game's playstyle, eve is not for you. If you think high sec is there so you can carebear in peace and safety, eve is not for you and you are delusional.
If you think any of the above things should be features of eve and think you are in the majority, you are severely mistaken. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:12:08 -
[40] - Quote
After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. |
|
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
84
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:16:05 -
[41] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
Because that's how the game as been since friggin' day 1? This horse has been beaten and ground into a pulp. There are so many ways you can protect yourself. I used to live in HS and we were attacked in belts, at gates, in missions. We didn't cry or complain. We looked at what happened, how they did it, and adapted. Y'know like everyone else the first decade of the game. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
239
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:16:30 -
[42] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17033
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:18:14 -
[43] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. Oh so its the devs fault that you cant reconcile with eves nature now? Grow up.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13920
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:19:27 -
[44] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in. CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. Cant jump clone to high. Yep, that sure does sound like fun in a game that is supposed to be dangerous all the time. I have a better idea, how about people learn to play (surviving, and thwarting the schemes of those who want to kill you is a big part of the game) rather than trying to figure out how to get CCP to punish people who spent the time to learn how to play? Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
Responsibility is not a button, it must have consequences and you know how they look in real.
Question is, we go for realism or just a mocking caricature of it? Now its just a caricature.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1922
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:20:43 -
[45] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
Actually that is on the way to happening, note that the OP even suggested a more meaningful penalty:
Quote:the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
Which was completely ignored by the Dev.
Many of us see CONCORD as a joke, it is akin to 15 minutes community service for a murder in RL. Consequences...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14313
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:23:50 -
[46] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it.
I'm a miner and a social player and a pve player. Why would CCP lose me because someone at CCP explained the nature of the game to people who are obviously clueless?
Most of us who are PVE focused understand the pvp nature of the game, and embrace it, and even use it (nothing is better than using NPCs to kill a pvp player who is trying to kill you while you pvp, I've done so doing Guristas MAZE and Angel Cartel Naval Shipyard).
That folks like you can't get with the program is a personal issue, not one involving all pve players. CCp is treating us just fine, they give us tools to screw with pvp nerds all day long.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26407
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:25:53 -
[47] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game. It won't happen, many of the hisec miner/social/PvE players are also wardeccers, pirates and gankers or are well aware of the nature of the game and plan accordingly.
I'm one of those that plans accordingly, kindly desist from associating me with people who want the game to change to suit them.
Quote:I think developers really deserve it. What they deserve more customers that embrace the niche nature of their product, and less customers like you.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:28:21 -
[48] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39
Well,
It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on.
I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec.
I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc.
So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game".
So that said developers can figuratively spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes belonging in a racist way. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14318
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:22 -
[49] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. Oh so its the devs fault that you cant reconcile with eves nature now? Grow up.
There are always people like that, most of the arguments had on this forum is with people who can't (as you say) "reconcile with eves nature".
We can tell them all day that this is their problem, we can show them how we (those who can accept what the game is) are way happier day to day than they are, and how we enjoy the game more and consider it time and money well spent. But that won't change a thing, because the problem is so deeply with them (ie they are the kind of people who can't really be happy with anything) that no outside perspective can help them.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17034
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:38 -
[50] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39 Well, It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec. I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc. So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game". So that said developers can figuratively spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes belonging in a racist way. Explain the racism o madam snowflake
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13921
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:29:40 -
[51] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game. It won't happen, many of the hisec miner/social/PvE players are also wardeccers, pirates and gankers or are well aware of the nature of the game and plan accordingly. I'm one of those that plans accordingly, kindly desist from associating me with people who want the game to change to suit them. Quote:I think developers really deserve it. What they deserve more customers that embrace the niche nature of their product, and less customers like you. You are developing product to suit needs of your consumers, consumerbase is developed by whole market.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2668
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:30:23 -
[52] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:30:28 -
[53] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39 Well, It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec. I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc. So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game". So that said developers can spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes believing in a racist way.
Ironic - considering the arrogance is all on you. Learn to read before you start mouthing off at things you don't understand. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14318
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:31:44 -
[54] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: racist way.
Dude, Hisec is not a RACE. Even is it was, High Sec Lives still wouldn't matter...
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2668
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:34:39 -
[55] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. The only good highsec miner is a dead highsec miner (or a CODE compliant one obviously).
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:35:18 -
[56] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE.
Nah, I really don't cry at all and I really don't care about what you do or not on your catalyst, you can spend all your life exploding yourself in hisec if it makes you happy.
What is disgusting is to see all those forum heroes, including you, taunting hisec players with the support of game developers.
This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game.
I know some of them and they would not do because actually gank rate is ridicolously slow in-game despite what gankers write here, so basically it's marginal. |
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
17
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:35:20 -
[57] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:But where was anti-ganking to save the OP?
lolz EXACTLY. That should be the main takeaway from the OP's post. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
86
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:38:22 -
[58] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote: Same as wardec vs established industrial corporation in High. Very funny indeed. They l;earned how to play the game also. But they learned not to be gankers and wardec spammers. Yes, I am as realistic as it goes, all the way. Mre than Falcon would ever allow the game to be probably, but he is community manager.
No, they did not learn how to play the game. You are not an isolated player in this multiplayer sandbox and you compete with other players even if you only do mining and industry. There are a ton of options on how to do this in a way that makes you almost untouchable for other players already. Yet you still come to the forums and cry for more safety.. there is nothing wrong with the game, you are simply really really bad at EVE. Nah, I really don't cry at all and I really don't care about what you do or not on your catalyst, you can spend all your life exploding yourself in hisec if it makes you happy. What is disgusting is to see all those forum heroes, including you, taunting hisec players with the support of game developers. This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I know some of them and they would not do because actually gank rate is ridicolously slow in-game despite what gankers write here, so basically it's marginal.
It's not taunting if they're just telling how it is. That is the nature of the game. End of story. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
341
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:38:47 -
[59] - Quote
Fine. I'll take some prison time for suicide ganking, but then you also need to stop Highseccers from leaving a corp that is wardecced.
Like you guys say, there need to consequences for your actions, so there should also be consequences for making a corp you can't defend. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13921
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:41:11 -
[60] - Quote
Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26411
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:42:36 -
[61] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:What they deserve more customers that embrace the niche nature of their product, and less customers like you. You are developing product to suit needs of your consumers, consumerbase is developed by whole market. Eve is a niche product, it's aimed at filling a small part of the market that demands things that are not the norm; Eve has always appealed to a minority of gamers, you only need to look at the overall trend in the customer base to see that, it was never meant to appeal to people that don't like the nature of it.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
ugh zug
113
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:42:53 -
[62] - Quote
reason concord protection exist is to deter attacks in highsec, but only that.
it's realistic.
if you look at rl the police act as a deterrent for criminals to do as they please, so they don't stop crime from happening they only show up after the fact.
pirates like most criminals are looking for easy money.... if you happen to fly in a low ehp ship and fill the cargo with 30x the value of the hull then naturally you're just asking for it.
Want me to shut up?
Remove content from my post,1B.
Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2670
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:42:57 -
[63] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable.
On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
239
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:46:54 -
[64] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. See post #39 Well, It's a game but even being it a game it's quite disgusting to see all those pvp forum heroes being racists with players that prefers to stay in hisec to do mining industry and so on. I do it only with one of my characters and I think Eve is pathetic on that side and developers are incredibly lazy to update missions and so on despite their arrogant way to point out players weaknesses in hisec. I also think they are lucky because maybe this one is the only game that allows some activities to be done with a really slow pace ( mining, industry and so on ) and it can be played on old pc. So there are many "old" players that have family and children and so on that can play here on Eve because it allows them to play in a "relaxed" way, totally different from "console style" or "action style game". So that said developers can figuratively spit on "carebear" face letting other forum heroes belonging in a racist way. Im ok with you being able to carebear it up in high sec. I am even more ok with "Ima Wreckyou" from code, who posted above, to be able to gank you, wardec you, scam you, make you pay "protection money", and any other thing "Ima Wreckyou" wants to do to you while you enjoy your stay in high sec.
I tell this all the time to highsec bears... if you dont like high sec and the nature of it, then move to null. It pays better and is generally safer.
If you havent noticed, CCP's updates to content only really ever affects high sec by proxy a majority of the time. There is a reason for this. CCP doesnt really want you to hang out in high sec forever. They want you to venture out into the actual game. CCP is very big on players playing without restrictions from the actual game. High sec is a huge restriction to gameplay intended to somewhat protect new players by discouraging harming new players. However CCP encourages you to get out of high sec without actually forcing you out of high sec because they want you to play the game.
Eve is a niche game, for niche players. CCP purposely tries to be different than other game companies and for eve to be different from other games. They want Eve to be a different experience, not a clone of "X". People come here and complain because its different and want to change it, to be more similar to mainstream titles. No one here wants it to be like a mainstream title, thats why we play it.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13922
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:47:50 -
[65] - Quote
I will call this particular chauvinism, a CCPnism. Sounds somewhat like syphilis.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14326
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:50:31 -
[66] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I will call this particular chauvinism, a CCPnism. Sounds somewhat like syphilis.
Chauvinism? Again, how is understanding the game, and accepting that as individuals it is our personal responsibility to keep our selves safe some form of "chauvinism"?
Why would you choose to play EVE if you don't even like what EVE is?
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1922
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:51:51 -
[67] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: I am even more ok with "Ima Wreckyou" from code, who posted above, to be able to gank you, wardec you, scam you, make you pay "protection money", and any other thing "Ima Wreckyou" wants to do to you while you enjoy your stay in high sec.
In about three different threads, CODE and CODE aligned players are begging for the Skiff to be nerfed
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
19
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:53:39 -
[68] - Quote
Yes this topic has been beaten to death so will try not to post anymore on this topic but:
I strongly disagree with Loci Lollipop.
Ok so let's take your idea and all the other anti-ganking people's idea and make high-sec 100% safe.
Ok you probably made some ice miners happy but then what? Long-term you've damaged eve and taken away what makes it unique. The whole point of eve is that it's dangerous. That's why we like it right?! I understand where some are coming from I really do. I'm not a miner but I move items sometimes as a trader and have been ganked. Yes it sucks feels bad. You feel embarrassed, feel like you've wasted your time etc etc. But you know what? You step back for the night and come back the next time and learn from it and do better. That's why we enjoy eve. It's harsh but it teaches you how to better yourself in game. It's awesome. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:54:26 -
[69] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist.
Only in your dreams.
I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine.
|
Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
158
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:54:44 -
[70] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism. Wrong, it's a question of attitude. Being a carebear is an attitude, not a playstyle.
If your attitude is that you shouldn't have to do anything to protect yourself in hisec because CCP should make hisec safe for you then people are going to deride you; firstly because you're a carebear, and secondly because Eve is not that kind of game and never has been.
I am Ralph's junk DNA.
|
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13923
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:57:45 -
[71] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I will call this particular chauvinism, a CCPnism. Sounds somewhat like syphilis. Chauvinism? Again, how is understanding the game, and accepting that as individuals it is our personal responsibility to keep our selves safe some form of "chauvinism"? Why would you choose to play EVE if you don't even like what EVE is? You seem to not realize what I like and what I dont like. Playing the game suggests I at least somewhat like it, but do I have to like everythiong about it? Of course no. What counts is do I feel like playing the game or not, because of things that I like or not like.
That I express my feelings about the gameplay now, doesnt mean I did not had in mind all of it for a long long time. Just now seems to be good moment to say something.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26414
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:59:54 -
[72] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. Most nullsec players have hisec alts, I'd wager real cash money on most lowsec and wormhole players having them too; the number of players that solely play in hisec is probably much lower than you imagine.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:00:17 -
[73] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine.
An opinion is not a fact.....good thing too considering how utterly moronic it is. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:01:32 -
[74] - Quote
Ramses Davaham wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. An opinion is not a fact.....good thing too considering how utterly moronic it is.
Moronic you say to your mother....
|
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
20
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:01:44 -
[75] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine.
No. PL would even start mining if the price of ore/ice got high enough. You are replaceable. |
Revis Owen
The Conference Elite CODE.
394
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:01:53 -
[76] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I really don't cry at all and I really don't care
Why are you waving your hand at us in Jedi mind-trick fashion? It doesn't work IRL.
Agent of the New Order
http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html
If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2671
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:02:14 -
[77] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. lead the way!
Don't forget to contract me your stuff before you go
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
343
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:02:43 -
[78] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. Sure, it's all doom and gloom. EvE has been dying since 2003.
The real question is, why do you guys keep playing a game that clearly creates discomfort for you?
Do you like self-inflicted pain and misery? Why don't you just quit and end the suffering, if it really is so bad?
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:05:26 -
[79] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. lead the way! Don't forget to contract me your stuff before you go
Nah, I don't lead the way because I know how marginal is hisec gaking actually.
I love Eve and I am not a carebear, as you call them, but I respect others playstyles totally and I would never have the arrogance of telling them "learn to play", even if they enjoy mining on a venture from morning to night.
They pay subscription ( or plex or whatever ) exactly as as everyone else. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13923
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:05:29 -
[80] - Quote
I see more CCPnists come to the resccue of falling state of gameplay.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26415
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:06:08 -
[81] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. lead the way! Don't forget to contract me your stuff before you go No 'tis mine, I called dibs on it already, along with her SP and corpse
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
20
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:06:08 -
[82] - Quote
Plus I don't get the big problem. You can always mine in a Skiff/Procurer and fit it for tank and make it hard to be ganked. CCP has given miners the tools it's not like you have nothing.
I'm not an anti-ganker but lots of people run to two mining accounts at once. So as an example instead of doing that you could have one character mining and another in a falcon with some kind of ecm if a ganker comes in. That might work. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
645
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:08:03 -
[83] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. We can start with you and see how it goes from there.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:08:56 -
[84] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. Sure, it's all doom and gloom. EvE has been dying since 2003. The real question is, why do you guys keep playing a game that clearly creates discomfort for you? Do you like self-inflicted pain and misery? Why don't you just quit and end the suffering, if it really is so bad?
No discomfort.
Simply disgusted by someone's attitude and because it's a forum I want to say it eve if it annoys you ( or even if it's pleasurable for you, I don't care at all )
Sounds simple.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1922
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:09:09 -
[85] - Quote
Nostromo Fidanza wrote:Plus I don't get the big problem. You can always mine in a Skiff/Procurer and fit it for tank and make it hard to be ganked. CCP has given miners the tools it's not like you have nothing.
I'm not an anti-ganker but lots of people run to two mining accounts at once. So as an example instead of doing that you could have one character mining and another in a falcon with some kind of ecm if a ganker comes in. That might work.
I think you will find the OP was talking about being ganked in a T1 Indy.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13923
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:13:02 -
[86] - Quote
Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
346
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:20:45 -
[87] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: Simply disgusted by someone's attitude and because it's a forum I want to say it eve if it annoys you ( or even if it's pleasurable for you, I don't care at all )
Disgusted? Maybe that is a bit extreme don't you think.
Some people like mining, some people like suicide ganking. It has become way easier to go about your business safely in highsec, while on the other hand it has become way harder to do activities like suicide-ganking. Yet, highsec players wants even more. They want complete safety. Complete safety would be detrimental for EvEs economy, since destruction creates demand.
Sure, it's sad that the OP got their ship ganked, but as many people have pointed out in this thread, it was the OPs own fault. Many countermeasures could have been taken to avoid this loss. But still it is not enough and we need even more safety mechanics, because for some reason suicide-ganking is not a valid option in a sandbox.
I understand, that you try to say that every way of playing the game is viable. But maybe, some highsec players should see suicide-ganking as a viable way of playing the game as well and consider figuring out ways to avoid losses, instead of crying on the forums for CCP to provide more safety mechanics.
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14329
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec.
And there it is!
Don't play the way you like, play the way (and in the place) that Nana Skalski prefers you to play. The "playstyle chauvinism" you claimed existed does exist, only it comes from you, not the gankers. You revealed your self with your comment, you are against a totally legal and valid playstyle.
Even when I did play in High Sec, I didn't expect others to stop playing their way because I didn't like it. I knew that it was on me to take care that they didn't kill me. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2673
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:21:18 -
[89] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. lead the way! Don't forget to contract me your stuff before you go No 'tis mine, I called dibs on it already, along with her SP and corpse Meh, I am always too late :-) . Are you really sure you want to inject part of here brain into yours?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:22:48 -
[90] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ramses Davaham wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. An opinion is not a fact.....good thing too considering how utterly moronic it is. Moronic you say to your mother....
That's what someone says when they have noting to show for it....keep on trolling.....it's what your good at when you get ganked after all. |
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13923
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:25:32 -
[91] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec. And there it is. Don't play the way you like, play the way (and in the place) that Nana Skalski prefers you to play. The "playstyle chauvinism" you claimed existed does exist, only it comes from you, not the gankers. You revealed your self with your comment, you are against a totally legal and valid playstyle. Even when i did play in High Sec, I didn't expect others to stop playing their way because I didn't like it. I knew that it was on me to take care that they didn't kill me. Not chauvinism at all, compromise. They will play like they want, only change will be where. Gankers will gank, carebears will care, averyone happy.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14329
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:27:32 -
[92] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec. And there it is. Don't play the way you like, play the way (and in the place) that Nana Skalski prefers you to play. The "playstyle chauvinism" you claimed existed does exist, only it comes from you, not the gankers. You revealed your self with your comment, you are against a totally legal and valid playstyle. Even when i did play in High Sec, I didn't expect others to stop playing their way because I didn't like it. I knew that it was on me to take care that they didn't kill me. Not chauvinism at all, compromise. They will play like they want, only change will be where. Gankers will gank, carebears will care, averyone happy. '
So, your idea of "compromise" if you get what you want and the people you don't like get screwed? Sounds a whole lot lie something a guy we all know would say. A guy whose name Starts with T...
...And suitibly ends with "Rump".
|
Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
388
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:30:02 -
[93] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So, your idea of "compromise" if you get what you want and the people you don't like get screwed? Sounds a whole lot lie something a guy we all know would say. A guy whose name Starts with T...
...And suitibly ends with "Rump".
But how can anyone get screwed? We're going to make America great again. I heard it on TV. It has to be true if it was on TV. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17038
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:32:50 -
[94] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec. And there it is. Don't play the way you like, play the way (and in the place) that Nana Skalski prefers you to play. The "playstyle chauvinism" you claimed existed does exist, only it comes from you, not the gankers. You revealed your self with your comment, you are against a totally legal and valid playstyle. Even when i did play in High Sec, I didn't expect others to stop playing their way because I didn't like it. I knew that it was on me to take care that they didn't kill me. Not chauvinism at all, compromise. They will play like they want, only change will be where. Gankers will gank, carebears will care, averyone happy. throwing the "undesirables" out of your sec isnt a compromise, its about as far from a compromise as is possible.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Keebler Wizard
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:40:19 -
[95] - Quote
The right ship with the right fit would help? A 93k ehp passive occator will make a pretty rough time for anyone trying to gank it. I've yet to see one person try. Hauls 61k m3 |
Chronos Thiesant
Deep Sky Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:48:41 -
[96] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Let ganker gank another ganker for fun for all eternity. \o/
In low sec.
Just going to throw this out there, most gankers gank for more than just "lulz". If I were a ganker would I prefer to go after a freighter hauling a billion in loot, or a fellow ganker in low?
One is pointless meaningless arena style pvp, the other is appropriating a players hard work through valid mechanics. Mechanics which, as this thread shows, are endorsed by the Devs. |
FearlessLittleToaster
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:55:31 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?
So that being said will you go talk with the design team about bubble immune insta-warping interceptors please? I can unflag myself for PvP for about 25m Isk.
And yes, I know I'm a jackass for beating this dead horse. But it makes me so mad I just have to keep kicking it to see if it will twitch.
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1447
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:59:01 -
[98] - Quote
I've just been looking at the news. Then i skimmed this thread. The people complaining about hisec need to shut up.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
224
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 15:59:23 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? That goes both ways however. When glaring loopholes in the mechanics of looting in highsec are left wide open for years and on top of it the survivability of the wreck gets the mother of all buffs, I can see how some people get the impression of favouritism taking place.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Skettis Arthie
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:02:31 -
[100] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it. The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers. You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
Comparision between real-(life|law) and eve is stupid at best, eve is a game and it should be fun and satisfying for gamers who play it.
Game mechanics allows a criminal to use hisec empire stations (home), allows a criminal to use hisec empire clone bays - that is very wrong! If a player is an outlaw then restrict his access to empire stations and services, that would be logical! Make them pay for tags in order to fix their sec-status or be on-the-run all the time in order to not get blapped by faction militia - it will be costly and challenging, it will not stop hisec ganking but won't be stupid as it's now.
The OP is very right, CCP is actively protecting hisec gankers giving them (by game mechanics) same rights and benefits as a law-abiding citizen of new eden.
If I'm in the mood, I could easily buy 100 catalysts and ship them to systems surrounding rookie systems and just pop the new players like flyes and still be in order with EULA and station services.
In every single MMO out there if you're an outlaw then you're on your own (even in the old space sim Freelancer), in EVE ... gankers are protected by the "sandbox". |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2674
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:09:18 -
[101] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? That goes both ways however. When glaring loopholes in the mechanics of looting in highsec are left wide open for years and on top of it the survivability of the wreck gets the mother of all buffs, I can see how some people get the impression of favouritism taking place. Just wanted to note that if anti-ganking would actually stop failing all the time at every possible opportunity we would not have yet another whine thread about someone who lost a ship to gankers. While you are here once again crying for changes in your favor people are dying out there and no one is even trying to stop it.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14332
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:09:23 -
[102] - Quote
Skettis Arthie wrote:
Comparision between real-(life|law) and eve is stupid at best, eve is a game and it should be fun and satisfying for gamers who play it.
And it is, for people who find what it offers enjoyable. For me, when I lived in high sec, that was PVEing (mission running mostly) while not dying to gankers, baiters and can-flippers. THAT is the game for PVE focused players, PVEing despite opposition.
The real problem is that you have people who think that they should be able to play a game (that was built with minimal protections for players vs other players) in total peace and safety. It's the belief people like that (like you) have that is wrong, not the game's mechanics.
If you don't find EVE fun, rather than trying to make it unfun for the rest of us (game changes aimed at Gankers don't diminish their fun, but it sure takes the fun out of it for those of us that never asked for any help to combat gankers), consider either adapting to the game as it is, or finding another game. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3899
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:09:28 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:..... In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players?
Ah, so many reasons.
1) Sandbox? Lets look at a real sandbox. When my 4 year old goes and plays in a sandbox, I do not worry that 15 other 4 year olds will suddenly pop up with AK-47's and shoot. Could it happen? I guess its possible. But its not something one has to worry about and prepare for.
2) The game already provides 100% safe options: Do not undock, or do not log in. Ganking provides an incentive for players to not undock, or just not log in. CCP Falcon, why do you think its a good thing for the game environment to be set up in a way that such incentives develop? What gain does CCP get from players not logging in?
3) This is not about stopping all player interactions, its about one specific interaction: Ganking. CCP Falcon, why do you find ganking so fantastically valuable to Eve? Ganking must be a tiny part of the total ship loss, so how could its removal cause any major change Eve as a whole? Specifically, what horrid thing do you think would happen if ganking became impossible?
CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place.
Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17038
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Posted - 2016.07.25 16:10:38 -
[104] - Quote
Rookie griefing is actually against the eula love.
Who gives a **** aboit what other mmos do, none of fhem are eve, go run back to yoir comfort zone if you dont like the way eve puts your safety in your hands.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
240
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:11:41 -
[105] - Quote
What is interesting is pvpers generally fit their pve ships for survivability. Bears instead use the space to maximize profit. I see indy ships get ganked all the time that are all cargo and no other modules. Many arent rigged and those that are, are rigged for cargo.
Freighters have the option of cargo expanders, nanos, or bulkheads and 9 out of 10 the ones that land on the KB are fitted for max cargo. Gankers dont kill bears, greed kills bears. I fly around high low and null in indies on various alts sometimes carrying reasonably valuable loot and never get ganked. I properly tank my ships for the amount of isk im hauling. And for high value loot, use small insta warp and sometimes cloaky ships....ill even fly cloaked in high sec as if im moving cargo through null. Sure i have to make a few more trips here and there. But i never lose my cargo.
Greed kills. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14332
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:14:20 -
[106] - Quote
Skettis Arthie wrote: If I'm in the mood, I could easily buy 100 catalysts and ship them to systems surrounding rookie systems and just pop the new players like flyes and still be in order with EULA and station services. That would cost me just around 200M isk which is ... very affordable to do it daily without any issues.
BTW, you should do this. If you did, you'd actually be helping the newbros and player retention.
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William Aiderone
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.07.25 16:21:05 -
[107] - Quote
OP, I'm sorry to say this but you should just give up and consider playing other games with nicer communities. From my experience you will get nothing good at all from this thread.
I tried to give some feedback the other day since all my friends quit eve early, partly because of broken mechanics like the ones you are mentioning. But all I got was that same "L2P you carebear" attitude, even though all I had done in EVE was lowsec pvp and wh-exploration... It's what I personally enjoyed doing in EVE.
They lost six subs from me and my friends and even though CCP won't admit it, I'm sure the majority of players trying eve out quit partly because of these mechanics. Before this thread gets locked you will hear "L2P carebear" and "well, banning pvp all out in new eden would break the game" like there is no scale at all to work with... Either gank new players and HS players til they quit or have zero player interaction. Nice reasoning.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve. Best of luck if you decide to stay. And gl having a meaningful discussion in here, you'll need it. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2675
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:24:56 -
[108] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve. Can I have your stuff? You can't take it with you to star citizen.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14334
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:26:19 -
[109] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: eve puts your safety in your hands.
That's exactly what they don't like, while at the same time that is the exact draw of this game for people like me and you.
It's why there can be no compromise. Either EVE rewards knowledge, a sense of personal responsibility and willingness to learn, or it does not. There is and can be no in-between that "makes everyone happy". |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
442
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:31:09 -
[110] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
We do it all the time. It kinda whips like this: you sit at zero on the gate (or on top / below it). Sit STILL (don't orbit), because otherwise you'd have to re-align whereas from a stnadstill position your velocity vector goes straight where you need it.
This is the important bit: when something breaks gatecloak and cloaks up again, it remains visible to us for 1 second (even if it looks 'instantaneous' to you).
So what do we do? We double click on the overview (filtering out the purple in there helps because you know where the target will be in the list) to approach your location.
Mind you, when you cloak up, we have nothing to approach anymore so our thrusters shut down. To fix that, I have "Full Throttle" on a hotkey, to allow me to double-click and then hit the gas to keep going even after you cloak.
While you're still aligning, we come in 2km range of you and you decloak.
We then ctrl-click you, double click again (or orbit- whatever you fancy) lest we burn 37km off and out of range; hit F2 and yell "Point! BBQ"
As you can see, it is not an automated process. It takes a little practice getting it right; sometimes you have to eyeball it; sometimes double-clicking on the overview doesn't work but you have a rough idea where it was so you can double-click in space and maybe get lucky that way.
Using a fast-aligning ship is important because you only have a sec to align to the last known location; a ceptor, daredevil works exceedingly well but I've had decloaks on my nano Scythe.
Other tricks for decloaking include jetissoning bookmarks to create containers 12km around the gate, sitting around the gate @ 10km with drones out; and in highsec you might even get decloaked by other players, NPCs (customs frigates for example) or previous wrecks.
Fly safe! |
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Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
390
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:32:46 -
[111] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:OP, I'm sorry to say this but you should just give up and consider playing other games with nicer communities. From my experience you will get nothing good at all from this thread.
I tried to give some feedback the other day since all my friends quit eve early, partly because of broken mechanics like the ones you are mentioning. But all I got was that same "L2P you carebear" attitude, even though all I had done in EVE was lowsec pvp and wh-exploration... It's what I personally enjoyed doing in EVE.
They lost six subs from me and my friends and even though CCP won't admit it, I'm sure the majority of players trying eve out quit partly because of these mechanics. Before this thread gets locked you will hear "L2P carebear" and "well, banning pvp all out in new eden would break the game" like there is no scale at all to work with... Either gank new players and HS players til they quit or have zero player interaction. Nice reasoning.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve. Best of luck if you decide to stay. And gl having a meaningful discussion in here, you'll need it.
"if you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to noone"
CCP understands that phrase, I think.
My first month in EVE I took my first rifter, which I loved into LS and just derped around. Someone killed that ship with a rookie ship getting the final blow, as embarrassing as it is. I convoed the person asking what I did wrong. They spend the next 45 minutes explaining the game to me and helping me improve. They loved to help, but because I wanted help and wanted to learn.
A while later I set up my first POS in a WH. It was quickly taken down by an established WH corp. I talked to them for a while and they explained WHs to me and how to do well there. Even though they could easily have not let me go, they let me get a few expensive ships out of that WH because I wanted to learn and listened to advice.
That is EVE. L2P carebear is what is said to people who don't realize this is a complex game and refuse to learn from people who have more experience. The EVE community is by far the most helpful of any game I've played, but you have to want to lose ships and learn as you go. Hell, I've given away a LOT of ISK in the few years I've played to new players simply because they want to learn the complexities of the game.
If you and your friends don't want that kind of game, that's fine, but understand what the game is. If your buddies talked to the gankers who killed them and honestly wanted to learn, I bet they would be given ISK, help on how to fly better, and even an invite to a corp because they listened instead of rage-quitting. |
Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:32:56 -
[112] - Quote
I don't really expect the OP to read my post, but I felt like adding a few cents to the conversation.
Namely, your mistake is that you're still in High-Sec.
Now, bear with me for a moment. While I'm not going to try to imply your loss of "days of hard work" akin to 300m ISK is insignificant to you, in the grand scheme of things, it is insignificant. Consider what you had said yourself in your first post: these gankers made a profit of 3 billion in that same period of time. This alone should indicate to you that there are far better ways to balance time:money.
However, assuming that the notion of you preying on unsuspecting or careless players leaves as bad a taste in your mouth as there seems to be in acknowledging that such even exists, you probably don't want to "contribute to the problem" that you perceive. In keeping with the industry-centric theme, I would strongly encourage you to venture AWAY from High-Sec and consider Null or Wormhole space for your mining, and to do so among the company of other pilots who can at a minimum keep you company, or at best, provide guns or other deterrents.
First and foremost about mining in Null/WH systems is that the quality of ore and minerals tends to be distinctly better than High Sec. Using the default settings on http://eve-calculator.com/mining/income_calculator/ore.html shows that Veldspar varieties range between 35 and 39 million ISK per hour. This would need to be adjusted to your ship's qualities of course, but for sake of argument, let's stick with the defaults for now. Compare that 35m for Veld to Arkonor (46m), Bistot (47m), and Crokite (58m), all of which appear in WH mining sites in varying amounts. Mercoxit, though still rare even in WH sites, does appear periodically and cashes out at 122m/hour. Mining in Null sec is similar, but depends very much on how "deep" in Null you go. The lower the security rating of the system (they can go to -1.0), the better the general quality of mining ores you'll see. It is especially important to note that ALL wormhole systems function as if they are the lowest security rating (-1.0).
While Null and WH sites are "not-safe" and are truly open PVP areas with no automatic security, they do tend to benefit from their general seclusion. Mining sites deep in Null alliance-controlled territory provide a sense of safety and security in that wandering alliance members may spot roaming gangs long before they pose a threat to you. Further, given the functionality of the standings system and Local channels, the moment you notice names not flagged the way you've got friendlies marked serves as an instant way of telling when a threat is present, allowing you the time to engage a warp back to a Citadel or POS. Wormholes do not benefit from Local notification and tend to require more "active" means of watching your surroundings. Probes in space can be used to watch for new signatures (new Wormholes especially) with more accuracy than the overlay system, and your directional scanner can be used to look for ships in space. Paranoia pays off, here, and unrecognized hits should generally be a good indication that it's time to return to your Citadel or POS.
Now, in addition to mining, WH and Null sec provide vastly superior Planetary Interaction resources. When I'm not absolutely lazy about it, I've been able to make about 1 billion a month, per account (and that's with still being somewhat lazy) in what is largely passive income that just happens in the background. To further supplement mining, you can even consider gas harvesting to pass your time. In WH systems, Gas sites need to be scanned down using probes, giving you an extra layer of "protection" and additional time to notice the probes in space before any actual combat may occur against you.
On top of all of this is a huge supply of potential ISK by means of killing NPCs or scanning and running hacking/Arch sites. In both Null and WH space, the "days of hard work for 300m isk" can become "a few hours watching my scanner while chatting with my buddies on TeamSpeak for 300m isk."
EVE has a theme about risk and return, but it's a lot more complicated than that. The perceived risk/safety tends to be wildly misleading, especially in high-sec. High sec tends to make people think they are safe, when in reality, they tend to be less so than the "full pvp" systems of Null or WH space. This is due to your exposure rate to other players. In HS, you're constantly surrounded by players, MANY of whom mean you harm. Null sec regions are vast, and the deeper you go, the further you distance yourself from potential enemies (usually). WH systems and the mechanics that they operate in tend to require deliberate efforts to find and harass you, all of which are detectable IF YOU ARE LOOKING for them.
As you grow in your EVE career and your income grows with it, you'll begin switching to stronger, more specialized ships. Your T1 industrial never stood a chance. Train for and purchase a Deep Space Transport or a Blockade Runner if you wish to run your own cargo. Alternatively, consider doing the bare minimum of hauling yourself and contract the job to move it to market. I tend to never move my goods/loot from the first HS connection to the Wormholes I live in. Rather, there are people out there who are more than willing to pay a billion isk collateral to haul my PI or minerals for 800k-1m ISK per jump. Paying 23 million isk to have SOMEONE ELSE in a freighter move a billion worth of loot 23 jumps that I get paid for even if he dies halfway is certainly worth the 23m isk I offered for the task.
I used to fly with a corp that harassed me about doing PI in Deep Space Transports. Sure, they cost me ~200 million each, but I've managed to escape would-be assailants numerous times, including 2x Proteus and a Stratios. Be vigilant, be paranoid, but most importantly, be properly prepared. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26417
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:47:09 -
[113] - Quote
Skettis Arthie wrote:Eve is a game and it should be fun and satisfying for gamers who play it. It is, for those of us that enjoy it.
I don't enjoy World of Warcraft, I don't like the mechanics, I don't find it to be fun or satisfying, thus I don't play it; I also don't lobby Blizzard to change their game so that I can enjoy it, because that would be selfish and a giant middle finger to the people that do enjoy it.
Quote:Game mechanics allows a criminal to use hisec empire stations (home), allows a criminal to use hisec empire clone bays - that is very wrong! If a player is an outlaw then restrict his access to empire stations and services, that would be logical! Please explain how it would be logical for the Empires to alienate thousands of players? Bear in mind that capsuleers are for all intents and purposes gods who throw WMDs at each other, for fun.
Quote:Make them pay for tags in order to fix their sec-status or be on-the-run all the time in order to not get blapped by faction militia - it will be costly and challenging, it will not stop hisec ganking but won't be stupid as it's now. This is how it already works
Quote:If I'm in the mood, I could easily buy 100 catalysts and ship them to systems surrounding rookie systems and just pop the new players like flyes and still be in order with EULA and station services. That would cost me just around 200M isk which is ... very affordable to do it daily without any issues. Yeah you could, however that's specifically targeting newbies, something gankers don't do. Someone would be along to slap you down in short order, the only question is would CCP get to you before other players did.
Quote:In every single MMO out there if you're an outlaw then you're on your own (even in the old space sim Freelancer), in EVE ... gankers are protected by the "sandbox". And?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
William Aiderone
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:47:44 -
[114] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:OP, I'm sorry to say this but you should just give up and consider playing other games with nicer communities. From my experience you will get nothing good at all from this thread.
I tried to give some feedback the other day since all my friends quit eve early, partly because of broken mechanics like the ones you are mentioning. But all I got was that same "L2P you carebear" attitude, even though all I had done in EVE was lowsec pvp and wh-exploration... It's what I personally enjoyed doing in EVE.
They lost six subs from me and my friends and even though CCP won't admit it, I'm sure the majority of players trying eve out quit partly because of these mechanics. Before this thread gets locked you will hear "L2P carebear" and "well, banning pvp all out in new eden would break the game" like there is no scale at all to work with... Either gank new players and HS players til they quit or have zero player interaction. Nice reasoning.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve. Best of luck if you decide to stay. And gl having a meaningful discussion in here, you'll need it. "if you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to noone" CCP understands that phrase, I think. My first month in EVE I took my first rifter, which I loved into LS and just derped around. Someone killed that ship with a rookie ship getting the final blow, as embarrassing as it is. I convoed the person asking what I did wrong. They spend the next 45 minutes explaining the game to me and helping me improve. They loved to help, but because I wanted help and wanted to learn. A while later I set up my first POS in a WH. It was quickly taken down by an established WH corp. I talked to them for a while and they explained WHs to me and how to do well there. Even though they could easily have not let me go, they let me get a few expensive ships out of that WH because I wanted to learn and listened to advice. That is EVE. L2P carebear is what is said to people who don't realize this is a complex game and refuse to learn from people who have more experience. The EVE community is by far the most helpful of any game I've played, but you have to want to lose ships and learn as you go. Hell, I've given away a LOT of ISK in the few years I've played to new players simply because they want to learn the complexities of the game. If you and your friends don't want that kind of game, that's fine, but understand what the game is. If your buddies talked to the gankers who killed them and honestly wanted to learn, I bet they would be given ISK, help on how to fly better, and even an invite to a corp because they listened instead of rage-quitting.
Thats pretty much how I played the game as well for the 8 months I was subbed. It was great. I have no issues with that what so ever. And yes pvpers in lowsec are great, we allways said gf and sometimes gave eachother tips n tricks. I wouldn't want to change that part at all, as far as I can see it's a great system. That is not what I'm talking about though... |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
443
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:51:27 -
[115] - Quote
Dibz wrote:What can a solo hauler do in this situation to counter the threat posed by gate campers?
Well, here's what you do: (1) even before you undock: CHECK YOUR SHIP. Tank yes/no? Align time? Warpstab strength? Several schools of thought are viable: you can fit stabs (a DST has 2 off the bat) because nobody's gonna infinipoint you. You can fit for align speed (polycarbon housing, inertial stabs) which in combination with the cloak/MWD trick works wonders. Or you can fit for tank and hope CONCORD will bail you out. Pick one. (you can also go for cargo capacity, just THINK before undocking the thing).
(2) when you exit a gate, you have one minute of gatecloak. Use it to DScan, check your overview, check local chat, eg: SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Make a decision based on that. Sure it may look safe and a bomber could decloak and point you anyway-- but he won't be holding you for long enough I promise. So the question becomes: can I go for it (can I tank their deeps?), can I make a run for it (do they have decloakers? fast lockers?), do they have enough points to beat my stabs? Do they have a heavy bumper... that kind of question.
(3a) if you think you can go for it, get your fingers in position (MWD, cloak are always on the same keys with my setup- just make sure you're ready to perform your manoever flawlessly).
(3b) if you don't think it's wise to proceed, With that cloak, MWD and BURN BACK TO GATE. You don't have to jump through right away tho-- you might want to let them aggress first, you might still align while remaining within jump distance of the gate and warp off; but being near the gate is a good thing either way.
(3c) if you have friends on comms, HOLD YOUR GATECLOAK and get them moving best speed to your location.
(4) if they didn't get you and you slowboated out / jumped back, you may want to check ZKill for activity up ahead. Dock up somewhere and come back later-- but don't just carry on as you were. If they warp after you (and probably beat you to the next gate) you'll be in trouble all over again!
So yes... there are some things You can do. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14335
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 16:51:36 -
[116] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Skettis Arthie wrote:Eve is a game and it should be fun and satisfying for gamers who play it. It is, for those of us that enjoy it. I don't enjoy World of Warcraft, I don't like the mechanics, I don't find it to be fun or satisfying, thus I don't play it; I also don't lobby Blizzard to change their game so that I can enjoy it, because that would be selfish and a giant middle finger to the people that do enjoy it.
But but but, I pay 15 bucks, Im a customer and the fact that lots of other people exist and are also customers means nothing to me! CCP should give me what I want (total safety and freedom from the consequences of my own choices!), because, again, 15 bucks. I don't care if what I want goes against the game and would probably lead to it's destruction.
(Did I paraphrase the other side's argument well enough here, or do I need to add more snark and self-delusion???) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26417
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:00:27 -
[117] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, Don't hold your breath
Quote:hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve Both would require the game to actually exist outside of a few tech demos and the ongoing entertaining drama as people realise they've been bent over and given a good seeing to without a kiss or lube.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17039
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:01:18 -
[118] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Skettis Arthie wrote:Eve is a game and it should be fun and satisfying for gamers who play it. It is, for those of us that enjoy it. I don't enjoy World of Warcraft, I don't like the mechanics, I don't find it to be fun or satisfying, thus I don't play it; I also don't lobby Blizzard to change their game so that I can enjoy it, because that would be selfish and a giant middle finger to the people that do enjoy it. But but but, I pay 15 bucks, Im a customer and the fact that lots of other people exist and are also customers means nothing to me! CCP should give me what I want (total safety and freedom from the consequences of my own choices!), because, again, 15 bucks. I don't care if what I want goes against the game and would probably lead to it's destruction. (Did I paraphrase the other side's argument well enough here, or do I need to add more snark and self-delusion???) You forgot "think of the newbies" , "eve is dying (purple this summer","STAR CITIZEN WILL LOVE ME THE WAY YOU NEVER WILL!!!1!!1!1" and newly added to the list of mewling and theeth gnashing ... Racism.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
445
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:03:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:William Aiderone wrote:Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead, Don't hold your breath Quote:hopefully that game and community isn't as toxic as in eve Both would require the game to actually exist outside of a few tech demos and the ongoing entertaining drama as people realise they've been bent over and given a good seeing to without a kiss or lube.
Not even out yet and already scammed by devs ... that game is going places! |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12631
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:05:25 -
[120] - Quote
OP, your SP weren't ganked - can I have them, please?
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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William Aiderone
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:06:22 -
[121] - Quote
Last posts...
What a mature way to argue for your point of view... |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
243
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:08:12 -
[122] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: Ah, so many reasons.
1) Sandbox? Lets look at a real sandbox. When my 4 year old goes and plays in a sandbox, I do not worry that 15 other 4 year olds will suddenly pop up with AK-47's and shoot. Could it happen? I guess its possible. But its not something one has to worry about and prepare for.
That depends on where your sandbox is. If your sandbox is in america where the govt holds your hand, allows you to sue for spilling coffee on your lap( due to your own carelessness of trying to hold said cup between your legs on a car seat and putting sugar and creamer in it), and creates a new law every time some stubs a toe outlawing what they stubbed their toe on...then sure its a safe place to play.
On the other hand if your sandbox is in the middle east or africa, not only might the other kids have ak-47s but a mortar might land on the sandcastle you just built and take the sandcastle and you both out.
You are trying to play in a sandbox located in a war zone but want the same protection afforded to you as if you were living in a bunker in rural America. If you want your sandbox to be a cozy place to call home where your 4 year old can build sandcastles without playing catch with RPGs and Mortars, then its up to you to make your sandbox that way.
Quote:2) The game already provides 100% safe options: Do not undock, or do not log in. Ganking provides an incentive for players to not undock, or just not log in. CCP Falcon, why do you think its a good thing for the game environment to be set up in a way that such incentives develop? What gain does CCP get from players not logging in? Yes, we all play a pvp game but dont log in because we MIGHT get ganked. That makes a lot of sense. You either accept you are trying to pve in a pvp game and take the necessary precautions, you accept that its a pvp game and risk it, you accept that its pvp game and dont play it, you dont accept its pvp game and cry when you do get ganked, or you dont accept its a pvp game and try to change it to be space farmville.
Accept the fact that you play a pvp game and pvp happens and then learn to deal with pvp...or dont and stop playing.
Quote:3) This is not about stopping all player interactions, its about one specific interaction: Ganking. CCP Falcon, why do you find ganking so fantastically valuable to Eve? Ganking must be a tiny part of the total ship loss, so how could its removal cause any major change Eve as a whole? Specifically, what horrid thing do you think would happen if ganking became impossible? Ganking is good for the game because: 1) It removes loot from the game. 2) It removes ships and modules from the game, which are produced by the same people that usually whine about the pvp aspect. They fail to understand the basic concept that pew pew creates demand for their loot and stuff they make with the 42,000 blueprints they own. 3) It gives people an incentive to leave high sec. Some people dont get that the ideal goal is to leave high sec. The game is set up to encourage you to leave high sec, including the ganking aspect and the corps/alliances that wardec 500 corps/alliances at a time.
Also one of the key features of eve is a player's fist interacting with your face when you dont want wear the appropriate protection(AKA: helmet, AKA:Tank) to prevent that interaction. Also you are not the only one that plays this game. You may not enjoy all the interactions in it but you have a choice: you can accept you will not enjoy all the interactions and play anyway or you can just not play. However this is NOT Burger King, you cannot have it your way. You take it the way it comes or dont take it.
Quote:That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Real world law enforcement is reactive not proactive. I would hardly call TSA law enforcement. They are more like glorified security guards on a power trip( and to much power). While they reduce the likelihood of terrorist boarding a plane or a plane going down, they are not a 100% guaranteed preventive measure... Much like a Kevlar vest will not prevent you from dying from a gunshot. It only increases you odds of survival.
I think all bears need to watch the movie "Lord of War" and focus on the main character and what he does. THAT is what you do in eve. You are the Lord of War in Eve. With stuff blowing up, your services are not needed. Sometimes what is blowing up is you.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12633
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:17:15 -
[123] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Last posts...
What a mature way to argue for your point of view...
OP has SP
I want said SP
QED
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Nostromo Fidanza
Blueprint Mania
20
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:19:43 -
[124] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:..... In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? Ah, so many reasons. 1) Sandbox? Lets look at a real sandbox. When my 4 year old goes and plays in a sandbox, I do not worry that 15 other 4 year olds will suddenly pop up with AK-47's and shoot. Could it happen? I guess its possible. But its not something one has to worry about and prepare for. 2) The game already provides 100% safe options: Do not undock, or do not log in. Ganking provides an incentive for players to not undock, or just not log in. CCP Falcon, why do you think its a good thing for the game environment to be set up in a way that such incentives develop? What gain does CCP get from players not logging in? 3) This is not about stopping all player interactions, its about one specific interaction: Ganking. CCP Falcon, why do you find ganking so fantastically valuable to Eve? Ganking must be a tiny part of the total ship loss, so how could its removal cause any major change Eve as a whole? Specifically, what horrid thing do you think would happen if ganking became impossible? CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec.
Ok the lames are in full force now.
Let's not compare what goes on in a video game to shooting kids with AKs. Please?? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17043
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:20:24 -
[125] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Last posts...
What a mature way to argue for your point of view... Not doing so, i have argued calmly and eloquently on this topic many many times before in many many threads, ingame and at meets . This whine thread doesnt deserve that. We are just entertaining ourselvs at this point.
This thread was here when i first came to the forums and im certain it will still be here when i leave for the last time.
Nothing new or even remotly usefull was tabled as to why the status quo shouldnt be so and the only usefull thing to come of it at all was another good Falcon quote.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
392
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:25:21 -
[126] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Thats pretty much how I played the game as well for the 8 months I was subbed. It was great. I have no issues with that what so ever. And yes pvpers in lowsec are great, we allways said gf and sometimes gave eachother tips n tricks. I wouldn't want to change that part at all, as far as I can see it's a great system. That is not what I'm talking about though...
It's 100% the same thing as what you're talking about. My entire point was the community is only toxic to entitled clueless new people who don't want to learn from vets. In pretty much all other MMOs I have played I have been heavily PvE. Adjusting to the fact that PvP is everywhere (yes, including HS) is a learning curve. Get over the curve instead of asking CCP to change the game. That's the point. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12633
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:35:53 -
[127] - Quote
This thread is a carbon copy of the dozens that preceded it, and the end result will be exactly the same - no change in the game (for none is ultimately necessary in this case), possibly a couple of cancelled accounts from those that simply cannot accept the way that this game is, and, at the end, things will continue much as they have done, with the hopeful exception that a few people who have read this thread but weren't aware before will now take better precautions in safeguarding their ingame possessions.
Remember: Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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William Aiderone
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:39:48 -
[128] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:Thats pretty much how I played the game as well for the 8 months I was subbed. It was great. I have no issues with that what so ever. And yes pvpers in lowsec are great, we allways said gf and sometimes gave eachother tips n tricks. I wouldn't want to change that part at all, as far as I can see it's a great system. That is not what I'm talking about though... It's 100% the same thing as what you're talking about. My entire point was the community is only toxic to entitled clueless new people who don't want to learn from vets. In pretty much all other MMOs I have played I have been heavily PvE. Adjusting to the fact that PvP is everywhere (yes, including HS) is a learning curve. Get over the curve instead of asking CCP to change the game. That's the point.
So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless?
Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13929
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:44:57 -
[129] - Quote
Only CCP can kill EVE, considering that even players who supposedly dont like this game play it.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14335
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 17:45:49 -
[130] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:Thats pretty much how I played the game as well for the 8 months I was subbed. It was great. I have no issues with that what so ever. And yes pvpers in lowsec are great, we allways said gf and sometimes gave eachother tips n tricks. I wouldn't want to change that part at all, as far as I can see it's a great system. That is not what I'm talking about though... It's 100% the same thing as what you're talking about. My entire point was the community is only toxic to entitled clueless new people who don't want to learn from vets. In pretty much all other MMOs I have played I have been heavily PvE. Adjusting to the fact that PvP is everywhere (yes, including HS) is a learning curve. Get over the curve instead of asking CCP to change the game. That's the point. So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless?
Answer: yes
I've had more friends than that try eve and quit. What I learned is that EVE just wasn't for them. There is nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong is the idea that something is wrong with the game rather to the real truth, which is that this kind of thing just won't appeal to many people...and things that DO appeal to many people tend to suck.
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Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
395
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Posted - 2016.07.25 17:48:16 -
[131] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless?
Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive.
If I get behind the wheel of a car and don't stop at a red light, did I get hit because of bad mechanics by the traffic light?
If you ever have a sympathetic ear, it's mine. I have no interest in high sec PvP. I think wardeccing and ganking is an easy way to get kills, and I'd personally rather see people challenge themselves by going after people who fight back.
That being said, I don't want to change EVE just because I personally don't enjoy one aspect of it. I don't like highsec PvP, so I don't live in HS and don't do PvP there. My advice to your friends? Learn the game mechanics. If someone is paying attention to the game, they will never be ganked.
So to summarize if it isn't clear, define bad mechanics. That in and of itself is subjective. To a cap pilot who wants to jump across the map, not letting him/her cyno through HS is a bad mechanic. To a gas miner with no combat skills, having sleepers spawn after 15 minutes is a bad mechanic. To a nullsec carrier ratter, not being able to turn off stargates is a bad mechanic. You have to look at all playstyles before you say what is and isn't a bad mechanic. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
87
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:04:48 -
[132] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:Thats pretty much how I played the game as well for the 8 months I was subbed. It was great. I have no issues with that what so ever. And yes pvpers in lowsec are great, we allways said gf and sometimes gave eachother tips n tricks. I wouldn't want to change that part at all, as far as I can see it's a great system. That is not what I'm talking about though... It's 100% the same thing as what you're talking about. My entire point was the community is only toxic to entitled clueless new people who don't want to learn from vets. In pretty much all other MMOs I have played I have been heavily PvE. Adjusting to the fact that PvP is everywhere (yes, including HS) is a learning curve. Get over the curve instead of asking CCP to change the game. That's the point. So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless? Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive.
But is it bad mechanics if it's working as intended. See the other dozen posts in this thread alone at how to avoid being ganked. If your friends won't learn or refuse to learn then yeah... |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
298
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:09:23 -
[133] - Quote
These threads are cancer.
Has everyone in the gaming community just lost any interest in danger? In excitement? I've been jumped on gates and lost more than the OP and the salt just made me hungry for blood. In some cases I even managed to kill them back using my Kill Rights, and that made it feel worthwhile.
I mean, Elite: Dangerous community made a Private Group called Mobius that kicks anyone who attempts to PvP, and their membership is in the tens of THOUSANDS.
What is with this modern mindset of "lay me in the no-PvP cradle and rock me to sleep while singing lullabies"? How is that in any way fun?
Without the ever-present risk of Tanks just be bored. Danger = Excitement = FUN.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Dibz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:10:54 -
[134] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:So yes... there are some things You can do.
I didn't say there weren't. But thanks for your answer. |
Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
17
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:12:47 -
[135] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote: Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive.
Been a few more than 1-2. I certainly tried, even down to offering suggestions on what to do or where to go (Null or WH space). HS isn't "safe" and that's what people need to realize. In some cases, it's more unsafe than Null or WH space due to the constant exposure to people who want to blow up your space pixels. You can find periods of relative lulls outside empire space, and the payouts are better, too. |
William Aiderone
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:24:39 -
[136] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless?
Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive. If I get behind the wheel of a car and don't stop at a red light, did I get hit because of bad mechanics by the traffic light? If you ever have a sympathetic ear, it's mine. I have no interest in high sec PvP. I think wardeccing and ganking is an easy way to get kills, and I'd personally rather see people challenge themselves by going after people who fight back. That being said, I don't want to change EVE just because I personally don't enjoy one aspect of it. I don't like highsec PvP, so I don't live in HS and don't do PvP there. My advice to your friends? Learn the game mechanics. If someone is paying attention to the game, they will never be ganked. So to summarize if it isn't clear, define bad mechanics. That in and of itself is subjective. To a cap pilot who wants to jump across the map, not letting him/her cyno through HS is a bad mechanic. To a gas miner with no combat skills, having sleepers spawn after 15 minutes is a bad mechanic. To a nullsec carrier ratter, not being able to turn off stargates is a bad mechanic. You have to look at all playstyles before you say what is and isn't a bad mechanic.
While I don't agree with the analogy about the red light... We can agree that the whole bad mechanic part is subjective. For instance if we take OP's example. Those highsec gankers most likely think that it's a great mechanic that they can steal loot for billions of ISK free of risk and with little effort. And certainly it gives a feeling of danger in HS which I don't want to kill. And obviously from many others players perspective it's a bad mechanic.
But regardless of perspective... And even though everyone know where I stand, if I refrain from saying one or the other is right... Is it that far fetched that this is probably causing a lot of players to quit, who could've loved eve for it's awesome pvp? I know atleast a few of my friends would've thrived in eve, atleast in lowsec. Must it all be all black and white, can there be no improvements for new players and HS residents without killing eve? I find that hard to belive.
Anyway, I just wanted to give my feedback about what I saw as a deterrent for new players, or atleast it was for my friends. I've lingered in these forums longer than I had planned. Gl and have a nice day everyone. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14338
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:26:18 -
[137] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:These threads are cancer.
Has everyone in the gaming community just lost any interest in danger? In excitement? I've been jumped on gates and lost more than the OP and the salt just made me hungry for blood. In some cases I even managed to kill them back using my Kill Rights, and that made it feel worthwhile.
I mean, Elite: Dangerous community made a Private Group called Mobius that kicks anyone who attempts to PvP, and their membership is in the tens of THOUSANDS.
What is with this modern mindset of "lay me in the no-PvP cradle and rock me to sleep while singing lullabies"? How is that in any way fun?
Without the ever-present risk of ganks I'd just be bored. Danger = Excitement = FUN.
Welcome to the modern "no stress" Western World. Aka The fall of Rome Mk II. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14338
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:30:39 -
[138] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Is it that far fetched that this is probably causing a lot of players to quit, who could've loved eve for it's awesome pvp?
If they couldn't stand the loss of some ship, what makes you think they'd like pvp? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17047
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:31:12 -
[139] - Quote
Snowflake generation incomming , man the cats and the nados! Fit the ishkurs for sig tanking ,prep your tear buckets ladies and gentlemen GO GO GO!!!!
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5002
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:36:37 -
[140] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote: Looking at a list of kills two ganker characters (and at least two or three support characters) had made over the course of a day ganking small industrials , they had made at least 2 - 3 billion ISK in dropped cargo (not including the losses from destroyed items).
They got me, and I did everything you can do including cloaking up at burning away from the gate when I saw them sitting on the gate. One of their support characters used some technique (perahps automated) , to see me in the brief second I appeared before my cloak engaged and zipped straight toward me in a remarkably fast ship, which stopped once my cloak engaged, but they were able to then manually hit their thrusters and get within range to decloak me. Frankly I don't see this being done and so very effectively wihout some sort of automated assistance.
With two Vexors they had my tanked gallente industrial destroyed in mere seconds. Well before CONDORD arrived in a 0.9 system.
At any rate, not only are they able to make billions from the hard effort many of these other players put in over days (I lost 300 million in minerals that took me many days to mine, and some others lost considerably more), but they were doing this in 0.8 and 0.9 systems! Systems where they could then immediately dock up after CONCORD destroyed their ships to wait out their timers, get into fresh ships, and head back to the gate for their next victim.
It's long past time you put your foot down CCP and make this sort of ganking in High-sec considerably less viable. Including things like CONCORD podding the gankers, the NPC stations being off limits to them (including if they have medical clones there, which if they do, that clone will be automatically moved to a low or null sec system).
Decloaking in a fast moving ship, usually an interceptor, is indeed a thing.
Sorry for loss, but...working as intended.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
484
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Posted - 2016.07.25 18:37:07 -
[141] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:These threads are cancer.
Has everyone in the gaming community just lost any interest in danger? In excitement? I've been jumped on gates and lost more than the OP and the salt just made me hungry for blood. In some cases I even managed to kill them back using my Kill Rights, and that made it feel worthwhile.
I mean, Elite: Dangerous community made a Private Group called Mobius that kicks anyone who attempts to PvP, and their membership is in the tens of THOUSANDS.
What is with this modern mindset of "lay me in the no-PvP cradle and rock me to sleep while singing lullabies"? How is that in any way fun?
Without the ever-present risk of ganks I'd just be bored. Danger = Excitement = FUN.
What you find boring we find fun, what you find fun we find a pain in the ass.
You play how you want to, go ahead, but don't knock others for playing how they want to.
BTW, This thread isn't cancer...cancer is a vile disease that so far has killed 7 members of my family, including my Mother and Grandmother. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12633
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:38:02 -
[142] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote: who could've loved eve for it's awesome pvp? I know atleast a few of my friends would've thrived in eve, atleast in lowsec. Must it all be all black and white, can there be no improvements for new players and HS residents without killing eve? I find that hard to belive.
All of this talk of loving lowsec and PVP and danger and risk sounds dangerously like backpedalling.
As you yourself insist that the world is more like a variety of greys rather than black and white, so too are there different levels of PVP interaction in this game. I would imagine that you could categorise them as running the gamut from supercap fights in Null to...unobservant and unaware T1 haulers being ganked in high sec by observant and aware players.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5002
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:44:35 -
[143] - Quote
William Aiderone wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:William Aiderone wrote:So when five of out five of my friends decide to quit eve partly due to bad mechanics there can't be any improvements to the game/new player experience without killing eve and when I'm giving feedback about this issue I'm entitled and clueless?
Btw you 1-2 guys in this forum who actually calmly argue your points of view instead, well done contributing to something constructive. If I get behind the wheel of a car and don't stop at a red light, did I get hit because of bad mechanics by the traffic light? If you ever have a sympathetic ear, it's mine. I have no interest in high sec PvP. I think wardeccing and ganking is an easy way to get kills, and I'd personally rather see people challenge themselves by going after people who fight back. That being said, I don't want to change EVE just because I personally don't enjoy one aspect of it. I don't like highsec PvP, so I don't live in HS and don't do PvP there. My advice to your friends? Learn the game mechanics. If someone is paying attention to the game, they will never be ganked. So to summarize if it isn't clear, define bad mechanics. That in and of itself is subjective. To a cap pilot who wants to jump across the map, not letting him/her cyno through HS is a bad mechanic. To a gas miner with no combat skills, having sleepers spawn after 15 minutes is a bad mechanic. To a nullsec carrier ratter, not being able to turn off stargates is a bad mechanic. You have to look at all playstyles before you say what is and isn't a bad mechanic. While I don't agree with the analogy about the red light... We can agree that the whole bad mechanic part is subjective. For instance if we take OP's example. Those highsec gankers most likely think that it's a great mechanic that they can steal loot for billions of ISK free of risk and with little effort. And certainly it gives a feeling of danger in HS which I don't want to kill. And obviously from many others players perspective it's a bad mechanic. But regardless of perspective... And even though everyone know where I stand, if I refrain from saying one or the other is right... Is it that far fetched that this is probably causing a lot of players to quit, who could've loved eve for it's awesome pvp? I know atleast a few of my friends would've thrived in eve, atleast in lowsec. Must it all be all black and white, can there be no improvements for new players and HS residents without killing eve? I find that hard to belive. Anyway, I just wanted to give my feedback about what I saw as a deterrent for new players, or atleast it was for my friends. I've lingered in these forums longer than I had planned. Gl and have a nice day everyone.
Right now, the only analysis of this says, No, player who are killed "illegally" (i.e. ganked) are subscribed longer than players killed legally (war decs) and players not killed at all. People have complained about the analysis, but IMO, it looks rather decent to me.
CCP looked at 80,000 accounts (and to be clear they picked players, not alt accounts). They then looked at people lost a ship in their first 15 days--i.e. new players. They classified the ship losses into the following categories:
1. Legal--i.e. a war dec, dual, etc. 2. Illegal--i.e. the player was ganked.
What they found was that the players who were ganked stayed longer than those who were legally killed, and those who were legally killed stayed longer than those who were not ganked.
Now, the presentation did not go into the statistical significance of these results (that I recall). It could be that these differences are statistically insignificant and the time these players stayed in game was on average the same in all the categories.
Further, the percentage of new players that are ganked is around 1%.
So, it is unlikely that this is causing a loss of players or a player retention issue. It might, but right now the only analysis we have says no it is not an issue.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:44:40 -
[144] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Snowflake generation incomming , man the cats and the nados! Fit the ishkurs for sig tanking ,prep your tear buckets ladies and gentlemen GO GO GO!!!!
*Looks around*
.( .__.).
.(.__. ).
.( .__.).
Oh, you optimist you. If only they would be here.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Memphis Baas
1799
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
My 2 cents:
1. Gate camp is at least 2-3 people, and you're solo, so in principle you don't have much of a chance. On top of the numbers, the gate campers have prepared a trap (It's a trap!), which gives you even less of a chance. So you got caught.
2. On the other hand, these things happen at well known locations in high-sec, because that's where the highest traffic is. And the map reveals the location if you set it up correctly. And there are plenty of guides and advice on how to avoid or minimize your losses, including "use a scout". So your chances as a solo pilot are quite a bit higher than in other MMO's, where 3 vs. 1 is a death sentence.
3. I guess the specific game mechanics are vague, but they are:
- the keyboard shortcut to target-lock a ship is ctrl-click - the keyboard shortcut to fly towards a ship is double-click
So if someone ctrl-tripleclicks your ship in the overview, they'll lock you AND fly to your position.
Cloaking mechanics are like this:
- you have to drop the gate invisibility in order to activate your cloaking device, this makes you visible for 1 second - if you're targeted, you stay visible - if anyone gets within 2.5 km of you, you lose your cloak because of the proximity
So guess what, an interceptor ctrl-tripleclicking you during the 1 second when you're visible in the overview, and being able to move to your location at 3-4 km/s before you have a chance to move away, that's smart tactics, preparation, and planning. The guy did his job.
You just blindly walked into a trap, and now you're asking CCP to change the game to help you survive that.
They can't fix st... well, you know how that goes. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5003
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 18:51:37 -
[146] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:These threads are cancer.
Has everyone in the gaming community just lost any interest in danger? In excitement? I've been jumped on gates and lost more than the OP and the salt just made me hungry for blood. In some cases I even managed to kill them back using my Kill Rights, and that made it feel worthwhile.
I mean, Elite: Dangerous community made a Private Group called Mobius that kicks anyone who attempts to PvP, and their membership is in the tens of THOUSANDS.
What is with this modern mindset of "lay me in the no-PvP cradle and rock me to sleep while singing lullabies"? How is that in any way fun?
Without the ever-present risk of ganks I'd just be bored. Danger = Excitement = FUN. What you find boring we find fun, what you find fun we find a pain in the ass. You play how you want to, go ahead, but don't knock others for playing how they want to. BTW, This thread isn't cancer...cancer is a vile disease that so far has killed 7 members of my family, including my Mother and Grandmother.
Here is the thing...you can play how you want, but you cannot prevent players from interacting with you....even if that interaction is a PITA.
That is the very nature of this game.
The default mode of this game is simple:
You can shoot anyone, anywhere, at anytime in game so long as you accept the consequences. That is I can undock and shoot you immediately in HS so long as i accept that I will in turn lose my ship. If I fit my ship so that I can destroy yours before the consequences are metted out...that is the game working as intended.
My first day in game I fully expected to be shot upon undocking the first time. I was a noob, but I had read enough to know that Eve was a rough and tumble game. Later I learned that kind of thing is rather rare in starter systems.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
978
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:00:39 -
[147] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:This is the reason I think it would be well deserved if all hisec players would go "on strike" for some months or leave the game. I would probably start mining since the ore would now be much more valuable. On the other hand there are a lot of highsec miners and industrialists which are perfectly capable of operating with gankers in the system. They are even glad we kill of their stupid competition who are too dumb to play the game and get killed in their untanked and unprepared ships. I don't know how many times I got a stack of free Catalysts and a thank you from a happy local highsec industrialist. Only in your dreams. I have the opinion the game would be closed after maybe a couple of month without the income of all the hisec players that I really think are much more than what you imagine. Most nullsec players have hisec alts, I'd wager real cash money on most lowsec and wormhole players having them too; the number of players that solely play in hisec is probably much lower than you imagine.
I actually have more hisec alts than I do nullsec characters. (About a 5 to 1 ratio, tbh)
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
|
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
83
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:01:20 -
[148] - Quote
soooo... you fail at EVE and it's all their fault right? Riiiiiight... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5003
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:05:16 -
[149] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:..if you see this in that light, as real life model, let these criminals in game prisons for some time, that would be a quick way of getting rid of them. How about 15min? What about ban on high sec for one month, gates would not let you in. CONCORD pods you and you wake up in prison colony in low sec. Cant jump clone to high.
So much for the sandbox....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5006
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:18:07 -
[150] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism.
No, it is called realizing what kind of game we are playing.
And playing a game is a choice. Nobody is forcing you into this type of game.
You, on the other hand are like the house guest from Hell who won't leave, constantly complains about the house you are staying in, and wants to change stuff that is not yours.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:28:26 -
[151] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism. No, it is called realizing what kind of game we are playing. And playing a game is a choice. Nobody is forcing you into this type of game. You, on the other hand are like the house guest from Hell who won't leave, constantly complains about the house you are staying in, and wants to change stuff that is not yours. You are also guest here, dont forget that. Its not your home. Is just a game. And stuff. All is CCP stuff. And sandbox too. Must be regulated with some laws to not become litter. As in your neighborhood.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
449
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:31:44 -
[152] - Quote
No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:36:01 -
[153] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec.
Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some).
Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law.
Warren v. District of Columbia.
The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens.
In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.).
In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:36:35 -
[154] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:37:45 -
[155] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lolipops, Its not racism, its called playstyle chauvinism. No, it is called realizing what kind of game we are playing. And playing a game is a choice. Nobody is forcing you into this type of game. You, on the other hand are like the house guest from Hell who won't leave, constantly complains about the house you are staying in, and wants to change stuff that is not yours. You are also guest here, dont forget that. Its not your home. Is just a game. And stuff. All is CCP stuff. And sandbox too. Must be regulated with some laws to not become litter. As in your neighborhood.
I'm not asking them to change the game in a fundamental way, though, now am I?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5007
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:39:01 -
[156] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
Not in your vision of the game though. You want to remove consequences.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
450
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:39:09 -
[157] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences.
Those Vexors died, yes? If they didn't, OP was under a wardec and there shouldn't be consequences. The blame is clearly on the industrial pilot who didn't know what to do. That's okay- he'll know better next time.
|
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
349
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:40:02 -
[158] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:No. No stinking law. Too much of that cr4p IRL -- in my game I want freedom.
Just accept the loss, LEARN how to improve your piloting skill and move on. Remember, consequences, actions have consequences. Getting killed for flying around with too much cargo in an intanked T1 industrial with no scouts or other security measures, sounds like a fine consequence in my mind...
But I suppose, only gankers needs consequences in their gameplay. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:40:39 -
[159] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down. If they will not help you next time, you can be so crazy happy about that.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
42
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:41:12 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:So again with this topic coming up, I have to ask the super simple question that I ask many of our players who are unhappy with highsec ganking: In a sandbox game that's designed purely around player interaction, cause and effect, action and reaction, why should the game provide you with a 100% safe option, and why should there be a position in EVE where you're isolated from interaction with other players? I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement. The issue here isn't the mechanics of the game, but as people have pointed out, the fact that you put too many eggs in one undefended paper thin basket and didn't appropriately protect and secure it. The in game map, as well as word of mouth, your overview, enabling sound and a myriad of other tools in game can assist you in avoiding taking a loss like this in future. Some of those options are available solo if that's how you choose to play, or you can look to hire a scout or be part of an organization that will in the very minimum of circumstances give you safety in numbers. You should take this as an expensive lesson, and make sure that you fit appropriately to carry valuable cargo in future.
CCP Falcon
I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works. They act on the principle of an eye for an eye, actually a lot more severe than real world law enforcement.
For only one of your multiple personalities what if the punishment was for the whole account |
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
450
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:44:30 -
[161] - Quote
Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14347
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:47:46 -
[162] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down.
This is not accurate as far as law enforcement is concerned. In the United States a law enforcement agency owes general duty to the public rather than to individuals unless special circumstances arise (for example, if I arrest someone, that is a special circumstance, I have to protect them from harm, at least till i turn them over to the jail).
People misunderstand Warren v DC all the time so you are not alone. The case means yes police have to help the general public, no police are not your personal bodyguards.
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:52:37 -
[163] - Quote
Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. They should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
21
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 19:58:51 -
[164] - Quote
zus wrote:For only one of your multiple personalities what if the punishment was for the whole account
This is a terrible idea and one hell of a slippery slope. You might as well suggest they extend "punishment" across ALL accounts related to a person doing it. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
249
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:05:39 -
[165] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Gankers accept the consequences of their actions. Gankers know full well what will happen when they gank. The problem is Pver's wont accept full responsibility for their actions nor accept the consequences of those actions. Rather than adapt to the game and the rules around ganking and what makes good gank targets, they blatantly ignore the rules around ganking, tanking their ship, and making sure the value of their cargo isnt to high to make them a target. Instead of making multiple trips and being significantly safer from ganking, they try to make one trip with all their golden eggs in their paper basket going through the ghetto.
Their greed, laziness, and unwillingness to adapt to the situation causes them to die. IE: Darwinism at work. Failure to adapt means you die.
|
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
349
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:06:39 -
[166] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship.
When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags.
But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced.
|
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1154
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:07:40 -
[167] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:After I read developers answers like the one above I think they deserve to lose every single hisec miner/social/pve player, I would be extremely curious to see what would happen to this game.
I think developers really deserve it. As an occasional highsec miner and regular highsec pve player I care to disagree with you.
I think Falcon nailed it once again and did a great job in responding to the ops whine post in a measured and friendly way. Customer service at its best.
Remove insurance.
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2687
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:14:58 -
[168] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? We are getting closer with you... every day.. with every post.. you can almost see the light... we are not far away now.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
88
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:17:35 -
[169] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing.
They do live in lawless space. They live in SPACE. We call 0.0 space lawless because of no police, but in reality most of New Eden is fairly lawless. In HS you have scamming, war, trade wars, etc. That very lawless. From an in-game perspective the most lawful areas would be planets and stations that are governed a little bit better. The whole premise of the game is the fact you live in a very lawless spacescape and the further out from the Empires it just gets worse. You do know the title itself stands for Everyone verses Everyone and the second you sign up you are told ****'s rough. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:29:18 -
[170] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship. When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags. But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced. These are jokes, not consequences. Lawles nature, lawless place for it.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5011
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:39:11 -
[171] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: I don't see the logic in CONCORD being anything more than a deterrent, the same way as any real world law enforcement agency operates. They're punitive rather than than proactive in their law enforcement, just the same as real world law works.
That IS NOT the way real world law enforcement is set up. What do you think all those TSA agents are doing at airports? They are not providing consequences for blowing up an aircraft, they are there to stop it from happening in the first place. Even in game you have done so many changes that make ganking harder; increased hit points for freighters, faster CONCORD response times, and so on. CCP has been a little proactive against ganking. CONCORD is also proactive in that it does not allow capital ships into high sec. Well, just to add something regarding police and RL (I know this is a game...still, this might surprise some). Here in the U.S. the police do NOT have to help anyone. That is in fact, the law. Warren v. District of Columbia. The ruling in that case was that the police do not have to provide police service to citizens. In essence, IRL, the police are under no obligation to help you in anyway (if you live in the U.S.). In game, CONCORD will always show up (if you are in HS and under a war dec) and make sure to burn the aggressor's ship down. This is not accurate as far as law enforcement is concerned. In the United States a law enforcement agency owes general duty to the public rather than to individuals unless special circumstances arise (for example, if I arrest someone, that is a special circumstance, I have to protect them from harm, at least till i turn them over to the jail). People misunderstand Warren v DC all the time so you are not alone. The case means yes police have to help the general public, no police are not your personal bodyguards.
Yes, the police have a duty to the general public, but no duty to any specific individual. So if a police officer sees you getting mugged he is under no obligation to help you as you are an individual.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17063
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Posted - 2016.07.25 20:43:35 -
[172] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? Give it time, just wait. The next time an edge gets rounded and we wail and gnash our teeth to no avail do you think they will be happy then? Will that be enough? Will that be the one that quiets them?
We both know the answer to that, its why we respond to every one of these godforsaken children.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:43:48 -
[173] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Come one dudes. Don't make me stand up for the gankers. I really don't like 'em but there was no exploit here. It was a legit gank with legit consequences and the pilot was in error. Case close, aye? We are getting closer with you... every day.. with every post.. you can almost see the light... we are not far away now. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626 High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. Pyrrhic victory.
The days of such reigns must end fast.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5012
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:46:52 -
[174] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Maekchu wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. As in they should live in lawless space if they really want such freedom. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them.
Panaja Paukonsuo, what have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. They lose their ship, they lose sec status and they get a 15 min timer. These are the consequences for the ganker. The victim only losses their ship. When they lose enough sec status, EVERYONE can shoot at them until they either grind it back up or pay rather expensive tags. But I suppose that is not enough. More consequences for gankers and less for carebears. Seems fair and balanced. These are jokes, not consequences. Lawles nature, lawless place for it.
And yet they are significant enough to prevent ganking from being ubiquitous.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2691
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:54:11 -
[175] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. You are a good example of what's wrong with Highsec. Every thread people like you make brings more of our critics over to our camp. Your demands are so unreasonable and beyond an understanding what EVE is that more and more people are starting to see the light and that James 315 was right all along.
You can not win this, as we will fight for EVE as long as the servers are up and do our best to eradicate the bot-aspirant disease from this brilliant game. And as we all know, the CODE always wins, always!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5012
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 20:55:47 -
[176] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:High sec is saved many times by you all, every gank brings you closer to victory. You are a good example of what's wrong with Highsec. Every thread people like you make brings more of our critics over to our camp. Your demands are so unreasonable and beyond an understanding what EVE is that more and more people are starting to see the light and that James 315 was right all along.
Which pisses me off.
Somebody get James 315 an editor dammit!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:03:04 -
[177] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:[quote=Nana Skalski]You can not win this, as we will fight for EVE as long as the servers are up and do our best to eradicate the bot-aspirant disease from this brilliant game. And as we all know, the CODE always wins, always! You will win, but not what you want, Pyrrhic victory, as I said. Having such dedication will bring you closer to it even faster.
And your bot disease is non existent. All lies.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
486
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:05:23 -
[178] - Quote
This has been beaten to death.
While I completely understand CCP Falcon's position and support most of it, there are some leaps to rationality that are implied but not supported. Some have pointed those out but it's easy enough to give him a pass on it because you still understand what he was getting at.
As to HiSec ganking. You have two options:
Fit a ship appropriately to wait for the cavalry to arrive.
-or-
Remove the reward and increase the risk for the would-be pirates.
How you choose to do the above things is really up to you. It's part of the learning curve and part of the game. Yes, people like this really suck the fun out of the game for the creator sorts but that's fun for them. So, you can either give them the gank and the tears, or just give them the gank, say nothing and walk away to try again. Maybe you'll do better next time. Personally, I'd hunt their sorry butts down with my free shot at them and make them pay double for taking me on. You have to increase their cost/risk or they will never learn.
Don't be a victim, get even.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
2
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Posted - 2016.07.25 21:10:29 -
[179] - Quote
Hi-Sec needs to be purged of the greedy miners that just sit in belts days after day AFK mining for their PLEX(s).
Only through destruction can there be creation....
All praise James 315! |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1054
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:10:48 -
[180] - Quote
This is a great thread! It has everything! 8 pages of pure entertainment!
We got clueless carebears recommending mechanics that are already in the game, Dracvlad playing a sad song for the poor noobies on his tiny violin, and this:
"Anyway, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen instead..."
HAAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*gasp*
PFFFFFFFFF LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Sonya Corvinus
Static-Noise Upholders
396
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:13:57 -
[181] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/BeSOi5C.png |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:15:54 -
[182] - Quote
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
502
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:19:14 -
[183] - Quote
I like where this thread is heading. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
456
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:30:18 -
[184] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them. What have you done for High sec for now? Nothing.
What have YOU done for Highsec? According to ZKill, ... Nothing. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17063
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:33:10 -
[185] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Why gankers should not accept consequences of their actions. I mean CONSEQUENCES. I would be better CONCORD Leader than all of them. What have you done for High sec for now? Nothing. What have YOU done for Highsec? According to ZKill, ... Nothing. Check Bagrat Skalski, nana is just a toy
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13931
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:36:45 -
[186] - Quote
Not a toy, an aspect of truth.
And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
630
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:37:17 -
[187] - Quote
I love this thread. I love this game. So much commitment from players on both side of the debate. Not many games out there that can have such opposite groups so passionate about it.
Suggests to me, the current balance is about right. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
457
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:45:22 -
[188] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing.
I could tell you what I think I'm seeing, but then you'd mistake me for "one of them". All I'm saying is ... if you think you can do a better job in this player driven game, by all means start up a service to scout/escort industrials complete with logi, scouts, webber and ECM.
Run the math, see what you can charge people for this service, bang pots and pans to get some customers, build up a solid reputation -- then I will take this for anything but idle banter. |
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
504
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 21:49:06 -
[189] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing. I could tell you what I think I'm seeing, but then you'd mistake me for "one of them". All I'm saying is ... if you think you can do a better job in this player driven game, by all means start up a service to scout/escort industrials complete with logi, scouts, webber and ECM. Run the math, see what you can charge people for this service, bang pots and pans to get some customers, build up a solid reputation -- then I will take this for anything but idle banter.
And finally, when you happen to give webs to a 50 billion freighter, WRECK THE EVERLASTING **** OUT OF HIM!
Just make sure you have you own freighter alt close at hand to scoop the loot. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13933
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:06:00 -
[190] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing. I could tell you what I think I'm seeing, but then you'd mistake me for "one of them". All I'm saying is ... if you think you can do a better job in this player driven game, by all means start up a service to scout/escort industrials complete with logi, scouts, webber and ECM. Run the math, see what you can charge people for this service, bang pots and pans to get some customers, build up a solid reputation -- then I will take this for anything but idle banter.
That is not my way of playing this game. I have my own ways. Appealing to me.
You can all ignore what I do, what I say. Cant ignore it? Maybe you should. Will be easier to understand when time will come. Its not that its something important. Its nothing.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
464
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:07:03 -
[191] - Quote
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
253
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:15:20 -
[192] - Quote
If the complaining bears in this thread were as passionate about learning game mechanics, fitting their ships properly, and preventing ganks/defending themselves in game as they are about "CCPLEASE PROTECT ME!" they would be so invincible, so untouchable, so powerful....
...That pvpers would just melt before them...
...but easier to just complain cause we can do that while mining on six accounts. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5019
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:19:52 -
[193] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing. I could tell you what I think I'm seeing, but then you'd mistake me for "one of them". All I'm saying is ... if you think you can do a better job in this player driven game, by all means start up a service to scout/escort industrials complete with logi, scouts, webber and ECM. Run the math, see what you can charge people for this service, bang pots and pans to get some customers, build up a solid reputation -- then I will take this for anything but idle banter.
Pearls before a swine Brokk. Your suggestion borders on emergent game play. Heck it is emergent game play. And everyone knows Nana Skalski is not here for emergent game play.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Jasmine Deer
Perkone Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:22:35 -
[194] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:This is a great thread! It has everything! 8 pages of pure entertainment!
It doesn't have everything.
Man, I miss Veers.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13933
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:34:00 -
[195] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:And you do not see everything, even when you think you see nothing. I could tell you what I think I'm seeing, but then you'd mistake me for "one of them". All I'm saying is ... if you think you can do a better job in this player driven game, by all means start up a service to scout/escort industrials complete with logi, scouts, webber and ECM. Run the math, see what you can charge people for this service, bang pots and pans to get some customers, build up a solid reputation -- then I will take this for anything but idle banter. Pearls before a swine Brokk. Your suggestion borders on emergent game play. Heck it is emergent game play. And everyone knows Nana Skalski is not here for emergent game play. I dont need emergent gameplay, I dont need gameplay at all. I leave it all to you. I will watch how you all perform, CODE especially.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
275
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:47:43 -
[196] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:I love this thread. I love this game. So much commitment from players on both side of the debate. Not many games out there that can have such opposite groups so passionate about it.
Suggests to me, the current balance is about right.
All the more reason they're going to give it another nerf.
A signature :o
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
488
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:58:48 -
[197] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:If the complaining bears in this thread were as passionate about learning game mechanics, fitting their ships properly, and preventing ganks/defending themselves in game as they are about "CCPLEASE PROTECT ME!" they would be so invincible, so untouchable, so powerful....
...That pvpers would just melt before them...
...but easier to just complain cause we can do that while mining on six accounts.
That's not how this works and you know it. If they did that, CODE would go around claiming victory while they wrung their hands wondering what to do with their lives because the carebears got smart. Most creator sorts don't have the chops for ship to ship PvP and the poachers know it.
The way this works for HiSec Carebears if they really want to solve the issue is they get together, put up some bait ships and then pound the snot out of any would-be gankers. You turn the game around on them and make the poachers into the hunted. Then we get to really see what 'stuff' the gankers are made out of. We know what they claim HiSec haulers and miners are made out of, I'd like to see this put back in their court.
Heck, it might be interesting for a Merc corp to offer up a subscription service to Corps to help with this "hunting service". I know several corps that would rather pay a hunter than pay a racketeer.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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CCP Falcon
13051
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 22:59:51 -
[198] - Quote
Skettis Arthie wrote: If I'm in the mood, I could easily buy 100 catalysts and ship them to systems surrounding rookie systems and just pop the new players like flyes and still be in order with EULA and station services. That would cost me just around 200M isk which is ... very affordable to do it daily without any issues.
In this instance you'd more than likely still be considered as griefing new players, and you'd still be liable to losing your accounts.
Honestly, it's not rocket science to protect your assets and not fly with all your eggs in one basket.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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CCP Falcon
13051
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 23:04:27 -
[199] - Quote
And on that note, this thread is being closed.
There are of course valid points on both sides of the argument, but when people are behaving like tools, are trolling and are bringing real life politics into the discussion, then the discussion is over and done with.
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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