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Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
81
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 23:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello friends. I am not here to discuss politics or ideology or any of that. I am here simply to discuss one thing: asteroids. I am doing this half out of a desire to arouse chuckles from my friends, and half out of a desire to merely discuss a trade I've not engaged in for awhile.
I was a miner for about a year, and travelled around much of the cluster to survey resources. I've mined in every patch of space I've been in, if only to collect data or build a shuttle or something. The rocks tell an interesting story, you see. A story of empires, ancestors, workers, toil, and triumph.
First, let us not imagine different areas of space as being so different. As far as physics and nature goes, there is not anything making Republic space different from State space.
I first began mining in high-security Republic space. To be specific, Josekorn. I noted that all throughout Republic space, both high and low security space, only certain minerals are available. Namely tritanium, pyerite, mexallon, and isogen. Not a bit of nocxium, megacyte, or zydrine is to be found. Meanwhile in a system of similar security status in the Empire was plentiful in nocxium by way of pyroxeres, but in turn lacks an isogen source. Why is this?
To put it simply, uneven mineral resource distribution across the cluster occurs because of human activity. One cannot find arkonor, for example, in high-security space simply because it is valuable, and the empires have long since mined the arkonor out of high-sec. Meanwhile, differences in construction techniques mean some empires rely on different mineral types in heavier amounts than others. This explains why one can find isogen from Omber in Republic or Federation hisec, but not in Empire or State hisec.
How does this impact you and I? To put it simply, all ships and modules are built with materials found from asteroids. These days, mining is not a very profitable venture for a capsuleer. It is much more efficient to gather resources by way of scavenging from the wrecks of downed ships and reprocessing the surviving equipment, which is how much of the high-security market for megacyte and zydrine is satisfied. And to a larger extent, the uneven distribution of mineral resources also impacts the common person living planet-side: commodities, vehicles, and even some building are made up of metals made from asteroid ores. Indeed, the very livelihood of the cluster depends on its industrial backbone. |

Khazarn Areth
The Black Pigs The Black Pigs Alliance
30
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Posted - 2011.12.21 00:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:How does this impact you and I? To put it simply, all ships and modules are built with materials found from asteroids. These days, mining is not a very profitable venture for a capsuleer. It is much more efficient to gather resources by way of scavenging from the wrecks of downed ships and reprocessing the surviving equipment
This is indeed how i do it as i have little experience in the way of mining and with a large demand for spare minerals needed to create modules and even whole new ships (quite a common need in my line of work) i find it safer recycling my kill rather than sitting out in a low/null security belt mining and waiting for someone to come along and vaporise me with a well aimed pulse shot. Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood |

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
39
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Posted - 2011.12.21 01:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rek Jaiga wrote:the uneven distribution of mineral resources also impacts the common person living planet-side
When I was young we had some foreign dissidents on Khanid Prime once protesting about the uneven distribution of wealth. They called themselves "the 99.999%."
I was but a child, but took great pleasure when the riot police descended upon them with truncheons in hand.
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Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
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Posted - 2011.12.21 02:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mining is relaxing work for me and scanner probes enable me to find lonely places to mine where minerals can be obtained that are not normally available in the asteroid fields. For example, as I write this, I am mining Omber in Amarr space. (Gravimetric site). |

Mikkel Lybecker
Gradient Electus Matari
44
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Posted - 2011.12.21 02:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Damn I'm falling asleep here. This is like lectures at Pator Tech. Didn't we all do Resources I in university days? |

Raederelle
Gradient Electus Matari
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 03:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:Mining is relaxing work for me and scanner probes enable me to find lonely places to mine where minerals can be obtained that are not normally available in the asteroid fields. For example, as I write this, I am mining Omber in Amarr space. (Gravimetric site).
I don't know why anyone would mine Omber right now, scanned belt or no. The price per volume of the minerals is terrible.
It has long irritated me that I don't have access to Pyro, however. I know that mining is somewhat looked down upon these days, but I think there is still room for mining specialists. If all the hulks mining Veld vanished tomorrow, the market would cry out for Tritanium and the price would quickly shoot up, maybe even rivaling that of Morphite. |

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
54
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Posted - 2011.12.21 04:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Rek Jaiga wrote:the uneven distribution of mineral resources also impacts the common person living planet-side When I was young we had some foreign dissidents on Khanid Prime once protesting about the uneven distribution of wealth. They called themselves "the 99.999%." I was but a child, but took great pleasure when the riot police descended upon them with truncheons in hand.
Ugh, nasty little creature--did you take pleasure in pulling the wings off flies, too
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Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
81
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 06:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Khazarn Areth wrote:This is indeed how i do it as i have little experience in the way of mining and with a large demand for spare minerals needed to create modules and even whole new ships (quite a common need in my line of work) i find it safer recycling my kill rather than sitting out in a low/null security belt mining and waiting for someone to come along and vaporise me with a well aimed pulse shot.
I find the same things being done here in the lowsec warzone. It is much quicker and safer, even, for me to scavenge through wreckage and gather resources like that than to undock a specialized mining ship. I do, however, sometimes have need of a Scythe-class cruiser for mining that pesky mineral that always seems to run out: mexallon. Everything I scavenge seems to be low in the stuff, and plagioclase being what it is...mexallon is just a pain. But every new ship built and given to my comrades is worth it.
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Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
81
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 06:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Raederelle wrote:Edaine Numenor wrote:Mining is relaxing work for me and scanner probes enable me to find lonely places to mine where minerals can be obtained that are not normally available in the asteroid fields. For example, as I write this, I am mining Omber in Amarr space. (Gravimetric site). I don't know why anyone would mine Omber right now, scanned belt or no. The price per volume of the minerals is terrible. It has long irritated me that I don't have access to Pyro, however. I know that mining is somewhat looked down upon these days, but I think there is still room for mining specialists. If all the hulks mining Veld vanished tomorrow, the market would cry out for Tritanium and the price would quickly shoot up, maybe even rivaling that of Morphite.
Back when I used to be a dedicated miner, Omber had the best ISK-per-cubic meter ratio. It would sometimes drop below ISK/m^3 as compared to scordite, surprisingly. Not sure how the market is now because I gather resources for personal or corporate production rather than selling.
Yes, pyroxeres would be a rather nice ore to have in Republic space. As I said, though, it is clear that all the well-known belts have long since been stripped of the stuff. As Edaine pointed out though, there are undiscovered belts that one may scan down which at times contain rarer materials. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
81
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 06:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Rek Jaiga wrote:the uneven distribution of mineral resources also impacts the common person living planet-side When I was young we had some foreign dissidents on Khanid Prime once protesting about the uneven distribution of wealth. They called themselves "the 99.999%." I was but a child, but took great pleasure when the riot police descended upon them with truncheons in hand.
Odd to compare the two scenarios. One is caused by a history of industrial processes and the other by a theological regime's policies. |

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 13:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Admission time: I am a terrible businessman, but I enjoy mining and exploring. I usually pick what I mine by what I happen to find and not if I can make much doing it. The name of my mining hulk, by the way, is "Fiscal Malfeasance." That's sort of my business model.  |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
82
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 00:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well there's nothign wrong with mining for its own sake Edaine. I personally don't sell minerals, but rather use them for construction. On the off chance I am mining for ISK, I'll just mine Concentrated Veldspar and sell the resulting tritanium; very simple and relaxing. |

ValentinaDLM
Unofficial Master Kuvakei Fan Club
420
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 00:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rek Jaiga wrote:Well there's nothign wrong with mining for its own sake Edaine. I personally don't sell minerals, but rather use them for construction. On the off chance I am mining for ISK, I'll just mine Concentrated Veldspar and sell the resulting tritanium; very simple and relaxing.
Also, ice and gas products come almost solely from mining, unless of course you can find industrial ships transporting said materials and acquire them by force. So, it is certainly a required activity, and worthy of investing time and energy into.
I do miss mining with you Rek, it can be a good time and it is an inexpensive way to produce ships and ammo. |

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 00:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Today. its hemorphite and Jaspet in 0.6 space. Occasional Sansha show up, but defensive drones take care of them. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 04:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
ValentinaDLM wrote: Also, ice and gas products come almost solely from mining, unless of course you can find industrial ships transporting said materials and acquire them by force. So, it is certainly a required activity, and worthy of investing time and energy into.
I do miss mining with you Rek, it can be a good time and it is an inexpensive way to produce ships and ammo.
This is true; I hadn't considered the non-mineral resources such as ice and the like. Those truly can be claimed only by the dedicated miner.
I miss mining with you too. |

Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
55
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 06:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:
When I was young we had some foreign dissidents on Khanid Prime once protesting about the uneven distribution of wealth. They called themselves "the 99.999%."
I was but a child, but took great pleasure when the riot police descended upon them with truncheons in hand.
This explains quite a lot. It also proves my Psychology professors were correct about the predictors of psychopathy.
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 15:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
I had my very first wormhole mining experience today. It was not profitable money-wise but it was very profitable experience-wise and excitement-wise. The wormhole could not handle an exhumer, so I took in an Arbitrator fitted with scanners, miners II's, Warrior II's, Shield extenders, etc. I wanted a stable power setup and reasonable defense. I mined Arkonor, but had to quit as the hole became unstable. I was attacked by sleepers but the Warriors did their job. The little I was able to mine didn't amount to much. I need more skills to do this right. It wasn't the typical ho hum mining run. |

Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
12
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:I had my very first wormhole mining experience today. It was not profitable money-wise but it was very profitable experience-wise and excitement-wise. The wormhole could not handle an exhumer, so I took in an Arbitrator fitted with scanners, miners II's, Warrior II's, Shield extenders, etc. I wanted a stable power setup and reasonable defense. I mined Arkonor, but had to quit as the hole became unstable. I was attacked by sleepers but the Warriors did their job. The little I was able to mine didn't amount to much. I need more skills to do this right. It wasn't the typical ho hum mining run.
Let me put it this way: You almost never see anything other than ABCM mined in wormhole space. The rest of the minerals just get left on the table due to hauling problems.
Also: Be glad it was only Sleepers that jumped you. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 19:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Well he was mining ABCM ore, notably Arkonor. But yes, for mining such ores you'll want a dedicated hauling ship because of the sheer amount of space they take up, particularly when you look at the amount needed to get anything useful by refinement.
Edaine, I'm quite surprised the Sleepers didn't destroy your ship. I've heard they're quite powerful. But at least you learned something new. |

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
17
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 19:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is probably some kind of stealth complaint that the Amarr "stole all the resources" of the Pator system. |

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 21:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rek Jaiga wrote:Well he was mining ABCM ore, notably Arkonor. But yes, for mining such ores you'll want a dedicated hauling ship because of the sheer amount of space they take up, particularly when you look at the amount needed to get anything useful by refinement.
Edaine, I'm quite surprised the Sleepers didn't destroy your ship. I've heard they're quite powerful. But at least you learned something new.
I had to warp out, repair my drones and warp back in to finish. Yes, sleepers are tough, but I think the class of wormhole I was in was a lower class where the sleepers are less dangerous. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 23:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:This is probably some kind of stealth complaint that the Amarr "stole all the resources" of the Pator system.
And this is probably some kind of stealth attempt to derail the topic.
Rek Jaiga, Original Post wrote: Hello friends. I am not here to discuss politics or ideology or any of that.
|

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 00:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
OK, I just got done mining my first Fullerite C-32 from Wormhole X702. I got away with 30 units but almost got destroyed. These sleepers were more dangerous than the others. If you could get a hulk load of this stuff, you'd make a bundle. Just 30 units/150m3 is over 400000 ISK at below regional unrefined. I don't know about going back right now. Warrior II's are not a match for these sleepers. Shields go down real fast. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 02:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:OK, I just got done mining my first Fullerite C-32 from Wormhole X702. I got away with 30 units but almost got destroyed. These sleepers were more dangerous than the others. If you could get a hulk load of this stuff, you'd make a bundle. Just 30 units/150m3 is over 400000 ISK at below regional unrefined. I don't know about going back right now. Warrior II's are not a match for these sleepers. Shields go down real fast.
If it is truly profitable you might want to take a heavy escort along to protect your harvesting ops. That is, assuming you are concerned about profit and willing to destroy the Sleepers. |

Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 03:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Right now, this is for the adventure mainly. It is also to try and find a way to out-smart these sleeper dudes. I found a way to do a little cat and mouse with them. Two clouds C-32 and C-28 were 141 km apart. You can get the group to chase you back and forth and get one to two cycles in before you have to leave. Sometimes if they are 100km distant, they won't target for a while and you can get more. Someone with decent equipment could do well with this. This was my first time cloud mining. I also found another wormhole into null sec from the wormhole space I was in. I harvested about 2.8 mil ISK worth of gas while playing in the wormhole system. I could have made more in a high sec asteroid field but it wouldn't have been as interesting.
I think for the capsuleer, scarcity of experience may be as important as the scarcity of the material mined. After today, I will seek to do most of my mining in wormhole space. It is just more interesting.
|

Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 03:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:Right now, this is for the adventure mainly. It is also to try and find a way to out-smart these sleeper dudes. I found a way to do a little cat and mouse with them. Two clouds C-32 and C-28 were 141 km apart. You can get the group to chase you back and forth and get one to two cycles in before you have to leave. Sometimes if they are 100km distant, they won't target for a while and you can get more. Someone with decent equipment could do well with this. This was my first time cloud mining. I also found another wormhole into null sec from the wormhole space I was in. I harvested about 2.8 mil ISK worth of gas while playing in the wormhole system. I could have made more in a high sec asteroid field but it wouldn't have been as interesting.
I think for the capsuleer, scarcity of experience may be as important as the scarcity of the material mined. After today, I will seek to do most of my mining in wormhole space. It is just more interesting.
That's either a Bountiful or a Vast Frontier Reservoir, and it's no wonder you had to bail fast. Those sites are extremely challenging if not impossible to solo, even in a very well tanked combat ship. (I once had a Drake get neuted out in that sort of site.) Bring yourself + at least 1 if not 2 friends in well tanked BCs to clear the site, THEN start harvesting gas (as the site only has a single wave of Sleepers).
Fair warning: C32 is BULKY. (5m3/unit) You will need a high-capacity hauler or multiple hauler trips in order to deal with larger (5000 unit) C32 clouds. |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 13:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote: I think for the capsuleer, scarcity of experience may be as important as the scarcity of the material mined.
Truer words haven't been spoken. It is good that pilots more experienced with wormhole space have spoken here though; those wildlands are quite mysterious to many. From what I've noticed though, anything worthwhile that you can harvest is going to take up a lost of space, which forces you to rely on hauling. Nature doesn't smile on us in this regard!
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Edaine Numenor
Disciples of Ston
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 14:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well, it happened. While in wormhole space trying to scan down a site to mine, I got jumped, squashed and podded. Woke up blinking back in Duripant. While my crew knew the risks of our exciting journeys to mine wormhole space, they are dead now and that is a loss that takes me back to ask a lot of questions. I will train for and obtain cloaking technology before going back.
Why does the humiliation of a capsuleer pilot usually involve the death of other "mere mortals?" Seems I should of thought this through more carefully. RIP crew of "Crap Collector." |

Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
83
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 15:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Edaine Numenor wrote:Well, it happened. While in wormhole space trying to scan down a site to mine, I got jumped, squashed and podded. Woke up blinking back in Duripant. While my crew knew the risks of our exciting journeys to mine wormhole space, they are dead now and that is a loss that takes me back to ask a lot of questions. I will train for and obtain cloaking technology before going back.
Why does the humiliation of a capsuleer pilot usually involve the death of other "mere mortals?" Seems I should of thought this through more carefully. RIP crew of "Crap Collector."
You should always keep your eyes on the directional scanner! Every low or nullsec miner knows this. If it was a cloak-capable ship, then yeah you had little to no chance of making out of there with your ship intact and crew alive. However, did you store ECM drones? They can be life-savers, literally.
It's an unfortunate part of our trade, Edaine. I've been told by wise people that it's part of the leadership role we play; be more careful next time. |

Raphael Saint
Imperium Aeternum
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.29 02:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm somewhat late to the party and I know the topic has moved on slightly, but as a past miner (I owe my capsuleership to it and still dabble in the trade), I'd be remiss if I didn't correct your initial claim of a lack of a good isogen source readily available (as opposed to the hidden sources of Omber) in the Empire
Kernite is freely available in 0.7 and lower, is quite a good source of isogen, and an even better source of that mexallon you mentioned to be in want of. It was my "cash crop" so to speak in my earliest days as a capsuleer and still today occaisionally enjoys the top slot for ISK/m3 in the Empire.
Quote:OK, I just got done mining my first Fullerite C-32 from Wormhole X702. I got away with 30 units but almost got destroyed. These sleepers were more dangerous than the others. If you could get a hulk load of this stuff... As an aside to Mr. Numenor, I think you'll find it quite impossible to harvest gas with a hulk, or any ship lacking turett hardpoints for that matter. |
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