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Log-Off = No Warp Out = Status +Freeze½

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Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:02:00 - [1] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 09/03/2007 19:07:14 I have read some postings about the Log-Off problem. Does there really exist a realistic solution? Let's start with some situations where Log-Off is used in an illegal way due panic and human error or just as a common method to +cheat½: 01 you fly a mission, you did some mistakes, you are scrambled or webbed to death, not enough time to escape: LOG-OFF 02 you get scrambled in PvP, you figure out that you will die: LOG-OFF 03 you get heavy DPS by a gang, no time to warp out fast enough: LOG-OFF But we should not forget the critical dark side of technology: 01 unexpected internet connection or power breakdown 02 client crash 03 other crash issues of a common PC CCP never will figure out a way to recognize why the client was disconnected. The actual Log-Off system is a pure self-protection for CCP's business. We have to accept that so far. So what's the logical result for a Log-Off solution? THE HARD AND BRUTAL WAY The client disconnects and EVE will not care. Your ship is ganked by NPC's or scrambled by players and it will not leave the war zone. It will be a free and easy target. Ship's going down but pod will be saved and can't be scanned by probes. If a pod is locked and you Log-Off by +accident½ ... bad timing. Hard but simple said. Result: endless petitions and whinings which is not a solution for CCP's business and will cause high frustration to those unlucky players with unstable internet connections or PC's. This following kind of idea is not worked out for each case. I am not aware of all type of possible complex action is EVE. But one thing is sure: there must be some kind of penalty for logging-off. The ship must stay in position and can't warp-out. So what is a logical conclusion: NO WARP OUT = STATUS +FREEZE½ The client disconnects and your ship will stay on position and keeps the actual damage status but temporary resistance of 100%. The opponent[s] now can decide to stay, camp or leave. They have one advantage now: fixing Armor and Shield while the frozen ship stays in its condition. The +crashed½ pilot is now aware that he will run into trouble if he logs back immediately. If all ships involved in the former fight warp out the ship warps to an 1AU SS. Fair enough. It's now up to him to decide: go back or wait for minutes or the worst case: some safe hours. In this case the +honest½ pilot with the tech error has to live with that fact but he gets after all the chance to survive. If his internet or hardware is such unstable that he has that kind of problem every hour or day he has anyway to find a solution for that to keep fun with EVE. The +cheating½ pilot has the same chance but those kind of tactics are now definitely annoying for him due the following rules: When the pilot logs back he will just have two options: log-off again or get back into combat with a chance of eg. 5 or 10 seconds [CCP has to work that out a critical schedule for the specific ship] to escape/warp and beeing resistant against ALL type of action meanwhile. For that the ship is not aligned to any insta-warp anymore to get sure that the pilot is aware of that risk. The countdown will be started by his decision to move. After the countdown the ship is not protected anymore. Any kind of agression/locking will kill the countdown immediately. The +honest½ pilot now can decide to take the risk of another crash while going on with combat/escape or log-off again to fix his problems. But logging-off eg. the 4rth time without using the other choice you will be ejected and your pod and ship are free targets. The same rule when decided for action but then trying to log-off again. In a mission you get the same options or the chance to stay away from EVE till the next downtime where your ship is handled like in the actual log-off mechanics: warp to a safe 1AU spot and mission reset. A third option could be: after the next downtime your ship will be warped out like now anyway. Let's try to proof now if my idea has some potential or not. Pres
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:04:00 - [2] Originally by: Presidente Gallente I have read some postings about the Log-Off problem. Does there really exist a realistic solution? If you disconnect, currently, YOU DO NOT WARP OUT. The EVE server takes about 30-60 seconds to recognize that you have disconnected, and then warps you out. So you still die. If you ctrl-q, you instantly align and warp out. In other words, people who legitimately disconnect (or pull the plug) are getting penalized far worse than people who actually logoffski. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 09/03/2007 19:11:09 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Presidente Gallente I have read some postings about the Log-Off problem. Does there really exist a realistic solution? If you disconnect, currently, YOU DO NOT WARP OUT. The EVE server takes about 30-60 seconds to recognize that you have disconnected, and then warps you out. So you still die. If you ctrl-q, you instantly align and warp out. In other words, people who legitimately disconnect (or pull the plug) are getting penalized far worse than people who actually logoffski. Hmmm ... my experience over the last months and especially last night in Worlds Collide was different. No aligned insta warp. Crash or killing the process. Logged back within 20 seconds. BC had warped out. So Ctrl-Q and killing EVE in XP is the same?
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:14:00 - [4] your idea sounds ok but ur info is totally wrong. if someone is scrambled they stay there for 15 minutes if they log off. if someone logs before they explode then their pod can easily be scan probed out. u get heavy dps from a gang and u log off u warp just as fast as if u hit warp yourself and again can easily be probed out. doing research ftw DE
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Presidente Gallente I have read some postings about the Log-Off problem. Does there really exist a realistic solution? If you disconnect, currently, YOU DO NOT WARP OUT. The EVE server takes about 30-60 seconds to recognize that you have disconnected, and then warps you out. So you still die. If you ctrl-q, you instantly align and warp out. In other words, people who legitimately disconnect (or pull the plug) are getting penalized far worse than people who actually logoffski. Hmmm ... my experience over the last months and especially last night in Worlds Collide was different. No aligned insta warp. Client crashed. Logged back within 20 seconds. BC had warped out. Depends how the client crashes, in my experience. If the client is able to send a signal to the server saying "I crashed", the warpout is instant. However a while back (over a year ago so things might have changed) I disconnected as my kestrel landed on a gate. Over thirty seconds later, I was popped by an apoc. This was before probes. --23 Member-- EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard
Slate Fistcrunch Direct Intent The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:16:00 - [6] My observations of testing with my alt are in line with Dark S's statements. When you get disconnected, the server has a timeout while it waits to see if it's a bump in the intertubes or if it's a total disconnect. When you press ctrl-q, a kill connection message is sent to the server and the log out process starts immediately. Hence, legitimate disconnects are more vulnerable than when the server knows you pressed ctrl-q. If CCP wanted to keep people from logging out to avoid PVP battle, they could implement a whole slew of solutions, which have been discussed from one end of this forum to the other.
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:18:00 - [7] Originally by: DarkElf your idea sounds ok but ur info is totally wrong. if someone is scrambled they stay there for 15 minutes if they log off. if someone logs before they explode then their pod can easily be scan probed out. u get heavy dps from a gang and u log off u warp just as fast as if u hit warp yourself and again can easily be probed out. doing research ftw DE So beeing scrambled is ruling your fate? I never had the chance till today to test that case.
Slate Fistcrunch Direct Intent The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:19:00 - [8] In response to the comments that you stay in the game for 15 minutes, this happens only if you manage to attack them BEFORE they press ctrl-q. If they press ctrl-q as soon as you enter system or as soon as they jump through the gate and land in your large mobile bubble, then you have 2 minutes to find them and kill them which realistically means about 60 seconds to break whatever tank they have if you have a prober already in position with good probing skills. Otherwise they just disappear in front of your eyes while you have them sitting in front of you scrammed and being pounded on.
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 09/03/2007 19:20:00 Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch My observations of testing with my alt are in line with Dark S's statements. When you get disconnected, the server has a timeout while it waits to see if it's a bump in the intertubes or if it's a total disconnect. When you press ctrl-q, a kill connection message is sent to the server and the log out process starts immediately. Hence, legitimate disconnects are more vulnerable than when the server knows you pressed ctrl-q. If CCP wanted to keep people from logging out to avoid PVP battle, they could implement a whole slew of solutions, which have been discussed from one end of this forum to the other. But what will sent when you kill the process or just close the EVE Window? The fact that there are more ways to kill the client or break the connection to the server will make the case complicated.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari However a while back (over a year ago so things might have changed) I disconnected as my kestrel landed on a gate. If you were still in warp while your client crashed/disconnected, you would not be warped out but stay wherever your warp leads to. It's always been that way from what I can remember.
Dukath Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:22:00 - [11] The first part of a solution is for the server to detect the difference between ctrl-q and a disconnect. And not for the reason most people think, but simply to make the game more fair and make it better at the same time. Timeout cause by a crash or an ISP problem: ship emergency warps like it does now. CTRL-Q or any normal way of quitting the game: no emergency warp, the ship remains where it was until the timer is over then it disappears. This will not solve people janking their cable to quit or any other lameness. But what this will do is put those people on the same level as the genuine disconnects and crashes. This will make the game more fair. As an added benefit it will now be possible to safely logoff inside a POS, even with aggression timer. Since you will no longer warp away from the protection of the pos bubble but stay safely inside until the timer is gone you won't have to keep an eye on the aggro timer, you can logoff fairly fast if a RL issue comes up. So please CCP, make a distinction between a regular quit and a disconnect.
Ikasu Gallente The Durandal Organization	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:30:00 - [12] It actually is possible for Eve to make this distinction, at least to an extent. Make it so that if you D/C by any in game method, such as ctrl + q or pressing esc and then quit, it sends a quit small signal to the server which reads it as a consensual disconnection. A disconnect, however, immedicantly cuts off any conversation with the server, and would therefor look differant then a log out.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:28:00 - [13] sighs They obviously know about this. They obviously can think of all the dozens of solutions people have given left right and center about it. They still say nothing about it officially or do anything to deal with it. Exploit my ass. It's a "feature." - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."

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