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Strill
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Posted - 2007.04.24 09:57:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: FuzzBuzz
Originally by: Crusix Bargoth
-One high slot item that sends out 100km pulses every 10 second cycle, these pulses pull them OUT of cloak.
If its an active pilot he just re-cloaks and warps off if detected at range, in-active...motor up and pop him.
-A new probe that does the SAME thing while flying around, just pulls them out and goes "OMGZ YOU FOUND A SHIP D00D!" any recon pilot worth their salt is gone before you get there, thats their place, get in, recon, get out.
-Destroyers and interdictors get a 99% CPU or PG reduction like most other speciallty mods.
The thing is to have it pulse at such a long range that they will pop up on over view, but still have enough time to get out if they're quality pilots.
We need a mod that lets us FIND them, not insta WTFPWN them.
And drone netting isn't the solution, its an annoying way to maybe do something.
Just a thought.
ohh gimp a class of ship to unusefulness?
some of you need to get a clue. why not ask for cloaks to be gone from the game.
these are paper thin ships and your fracking scared of them, they cant do much damage to a alert pilot. unless there in gangs.
Tip1: Covert ops frigs aren't the only ships that can cloak.
Tip2: Titans are not "paper-thin" and can do quite a bit of damage.
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Viashivan
Amarr
FM Corp
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:54:00 -
[62]
I have been on both ends. I have been AFK cloaking myself and I was being AFK-cloaked. For those experiences I'm in favor of nerving cloaks.
Why?
I think the most valid argument against undetectable cloaking is the fact that it is in essence as docking up. With the advantage that there is no bottleneck. This is namely the process of undocking, which is missing therefore no one is able to see whether you undock or not.
Idea for a solution
In order to detect cloaked ships I would suggest this path. In a POS a new structure can be anchored that decloaks all ships in local. The drawback with that structure is that it eats storium form the control tower and is very expensive to run in terms of fuel and the setting up of the POS. More pos requirements like no shield hardeners, as this disturbs the signal, are required as well.
In addition for this structure to be anchored and go online system sovereignty is required. As soon as that structure all ships are uncloaked immediately except for cov-ops/ and force recon ships.
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Caligulus
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:53:00 -
[63]
Another subtle change would be to extend the range at which an object uncloaks a vessel; say 5km. At the very least there should be a probe that can detect the "type" of ship they're in.
If some clown goes afk in a covert ops frig in my system, i'd still go about my business but if it were a force recon or a HAC fit with a proto cloak. I'd reconsider. At least this way you have more options then "hey there's a cloaked hostile in system. Guess I can't really do jack unless I get people to cover my ass while i caerbear or what have you."
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Tonny Jr
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:59:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Caligulus
Another subtle change would be to extend the range at which an object uncloaks a vessel; say 5km. At the very least there should be a probe that can detect the "type" of ship they're in.
If some clown goes afk in a covert ops frig in my system, i'd still go about my business but if it were a force recon or a HAC fit with a proto cloak. I'd reconsider. At least this way you have more options then "hey there's a cloaked hostile in system. Guess I can't really do jack unless I get people to cover my ass while i caerbear or what have you."
So in essence you want to feel safer while carebearing alone in 0.0?
Increasing the uncloak range to 5 km is in my opinion a bad idea, because this would make it a lot harder to sneak by gatecamps. Then again, I personally think gatecamps (in the extent to which they are implemented today) are bad for the game, whereas a lot of people probably don't.
As for the decloaking pulse idea,
if it only affected non cov-op cloaks then I agree it would be a good idea. Otherwise it would just make recon/ cov ops ships a lot easier to lose. Keep in mind outfitting a good cov ops/ recon is easily a very expensive venture, and their ability in combat does not really reflect the amount of money spent. Therefore I think they should retain their advantage towards staying hidden, since this is obviously the niche they're supposed to fill.
As for cov ops being able to launch anti cloak-probes, now there's an interesting idea. Balance it right (many good suggestions in the thread already) and I think we have a winner. |
Dashhammer II
Amarr
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.04.26 06:16:00 -
[65]
I see the problem, but I think it's more of a design flaw instead of a nerf requirement. Let me explain. I've flown covops all over the place. At one point I flew 40 jumps up a pipe that AAA (hostiles) were convoying in the opposite direction. I went through FIVE gate camps and at least four of them knew I was coming. No one could catch me. They tried every trick in the book and nothing seemed to work.
The first one was the simple 'Tackler grab' which I countered by the (never fail) maxspeed/mwd/cloak buttons in that order, super fast. Once you hit max speed you begin to come out of cloak, once you hit your mwd, it doesn't need to remain active, that first pulse of acceleration will pull you incredible distances with inertia alone. The third button puts you back into cloak. If you are used to doing it, you can come out of a gate and only appear on thier overview for .1 seconds before warping away. Of course, since you were cloaked when you warped off, they don't actually know that you warped away and will probably search the area untill you disappear from local.
The second was similiar to the first, with more ships and an interdictor. You know how it goes, you load into a system and realize you are in a bubble, surrounded by at least 3 interceptors that are anxiously bouncing around by the gate. Same thing here too really, max/mwd/cloak and then everyone targets you and hits 'intercept target' hoping to run smack into you while you are cloaked however, since you had hit your mwd before hitting cloak, you are now at least 18k away from where you used to be and you giggle as they all crash into each other in that spot where you were.
The third was the opposite, it was a group sitting with a large deployable on the outbound gate with drones out. Man that was fun, it was like running a guantlet of drones and inties (while cloaked) untill one of them uncloaked me and I just MWD the rest of the way to the gate. SURPRISE!
The fourth was similiar.
The fifth is what got me. A very clever man set up a large on an outbound gate and warped from the gate I'd be coming in from to the gate I'd be leaving at. Feeling rather invincible I popped into the system and warped to the next gate, hitting his bubble and coming out of warp 500m from him. At which point he activated all of his smartbombs. I guess I had upset them by busting through the first four and they weren't going to let me get away just yet.
It's... rather unfortunate that his tactic is the ONLY way to kill a covops. But the covops shouldn't be nerfed, not in the slightest. It was origenally intended to do just what it's name implies. It is supposed to be a super-exetreme-ultra-undetectable recon ship. And it is, the problem is that it is impossible to be trully hidden if you show up in local. How can a scout sneak up on an enemy position and collect intel if everyone knows he's there but just can't kill him? It's a bit rediculous really. Still, if they know that he's around, they should have a mod or a tactic that'll kill him. Something that is a real threat. On the other hand, they should counter this by allowing covops to disappear from local after cloaking themselves. This would allow for some rather incredible feats of intel gathering and at the same time, it would let fleet commanders kill covops that they've either seen or know are in the area.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.26 07:23:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tonny Jr
Originally by: Caligulus
Another subtle change would be to extend the range at which an object uncloaks a vessel; say 5km. At the very least there should be a probe that can detect the "type" of ship they're in.
If some clown goes afk in a covert ops frig in my system, i'd still go about my business but if it were a force recon or a HAC fit with a proto cloak. I'd reconsider. At least this way you have more options then "hey there's a cloaked hostile in system. Guess I can't really do jack unless I get people to cover my ass while i caerbear or what have you."
So in essence you want to feel safer while carebearing alone in 0.0?
Increasing the uncloak range to 5 km is in my opinion a bad idea, because this would make it a lot harder to sneak by gatecamps. Then again, I personally think gatecamps (in the extent to which they are implemented today) are bad for the game, whereas a lot of people probably don't.
As for the decloaking pulse idea,
if it only affected non cov-op cloaks then I agree it would be a good idea. Otherwise it would just make recon/ cov ops ships a lot easier to lose. Keep in mind outfitting a good cov ops/ recon is easily a very expensive venture, and their ability in combat does not really reflect the amount of money spent. Therefore I think they should retain their advantage towards staying hidden, since this is obviously the niche they're supposed to fill.
As for cov ops being able to launch anti cloak-probes, now there's an interesting idea. Balance it right (many good suggestions in the thread already) and I think we have a winner.
And you just want to feel safer when flying a recon in 0.0 alone?
And features and ideas has a few threads with ideas for cloak finding mechanisms you all might find interesting.
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Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Sofring Eternus
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Posted - 2007.04.26 08:09:00 -
[67]
I wanted to expand on the idea of how people show up in local is because the jump gates alert people.
Perhaps all the corp chatter and alliance chatter etc also requires the jump gate to keep in constant communication with your ship, thus once your ship is out of communication ie: logged off, it then removes you from the local listing.
If you want out of local, perhaps it should also require you to lose all communication channels ie: Radio Silence, to avoid detection.
I think CovOps ships should have zero penalties for fitting a cloak, and they should then implement some anti-cloak scans or probes or what have you.
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Morph01
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Posted - 2007.04.26 09:59:00 -
[68]
well, if you ask me, cloaks should be nerfed.
well, maybe not cloaks, but we should be able to probe AFK cloakers.
cause tbh, what's the point on ppl that have 3+ accounts and use few of those for harassing other ppl. and the problems aren't covert ops, problems are recon ships.
2 recon ships can kill every BS (take arazu and rapier for instance, or falcon with it's ECM bonuses, or even pilgrim with NOS bonuses).
the problem is that there are ppl who just log in one of their alts, wapr him to SS, cloak themselves and go afk for the rest of the day.
we should get probes that would detect cloaked ships and we can warp there, but it's scanning time would be at least one hour.
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The Rincewind
Reign in Blood
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.26 10:23:00 -
[69]
Edited by: The Rincewind on 26/04/2007 10:19:37
Originally by: LoKesh
I do agree that there should be a way to hunt down people who stay AFK at a safespot while cloaked. Hunting down anyone just temporarily cloaked, maybe not.
Perhaps a probe that could detect cloaked ships, but that had a huge cycle time? 45 minute base or more.
if u mean a chance to probe a cloaked ship which stays on 1 position and is not approaching the deep..... so u can warp on 0 meter on it and decloak the ship, then u re right.
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Johnny Gurkha
Caldari
Villains
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Posted - 2007.04.26 12:31:00 -
[70]
CCP should introduce a new type of smartbomb with an increased range that uncloaked ships are invulnerable to - imagine sending a few destroyers into a belt or safespot to "depth charge" it before your gang warps into it 
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annab
Amarr
FireStar Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:06:00 -
[71]
Personally as a force recon user. I think cloaks should be left as they are.
The draw backs to fitting a cloak, local and ship armor means they have a nerf. Adding decloaks means they remove these perbuilt nerfs.
Decloakers would be cool but you need to look at what we get as well. unseen on Local, more armor and shild, no reclibartion time, maybe lock targets while cloaked. Sounds about fair. 
The main problem is some warping to a safe spot and leaving the computer for 23 hours. This is the same as afk in a station it wastes server bandwidth. I think everyone can agree to that.
There are two ways to fix this.
1. Log out timer maybe waiting an hour. If the user dosen't move the mouse/touch the keyboard.
Problem some one could make a device to move the mouse. However 90% wouldn't spend the time making one.
2. Flash a message on screen that your ship has been powered down. Local is removed for that ship and all modules turn off. You can scan him/her with normal probs. When he presses turn on the ship powers up local comes back and the modules can be used again. Maybe with a power up timer. Say 30 sec no warp or high slot useage and no drone usage.
Problem macros to press on and doesn't remove station afk.
There is no 100% way to remove afk but it should not nerf the people who want to make a cuppa. So 30 mins to an hour is a good limit. An hour to make a cup of tea/lunch is more than enough time.
This is by no means perfect at removing afk players and its fair to both camps cloaks and non-cloaks as it does not hurt them just the afks.
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Sailon
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Posted - 2007.04.26 13:07:00 -
[72]
i agree anti cloak things on cheaper cloakers with protocloak or t2 version but covert cloak should be immune all this. Anti-cloaking devices should work like this: more cheaper the cloak is more easier its scan down for uncloak but it would have have not any effective on covert cloak ship
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2007.04.26 18:27:00 -
[73]
my sugestion was to create tier 2 interdictors and as a nateral trait can see cloaked ships!
and then build a mod and skill to fix a mod to the ship that will highlight a cloaked ship to gang members!
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Sirad
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Posted - 2007.05.05 19:44:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Sirad on 05/05/2007 19:43:04
I still haven't seen an answer on how to find a cloaked player that is in bed sleeping.
ps.. I will leave my 2 accounts running 23 hours a day to just help out.
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Xerrus
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Posted - 2007.05.05 20:56:00 -
[75]
Has anyone noticed this category in the contracts tab?
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Mifter Hogdido
Amarr
LEG1ON
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Posted - 2007.05.05 23:11:00 -
[76]
In reply to the OP: No. Get used to it, deal with it, whatever, stop trying to nerf every damned thing in the game just because you get owned by it.
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Herman Letchenstein
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.05 23:18:00 -
[77]
Go back AFK...
Originally by: Mifter Hogdido
In reply to the OP: No. Get used to it, deal with it, whatever, stop trying to nerf every damned thing in the game just because you get owned by it.
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Mifter Hogdido
Amarr
LEG1ON
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Posted - 2007.05.05 23:41:00 -
[78]
I rarely use my covert ops. Stop being such a noob asking for everything in the game that you either A) SUCK at using, or B) Get OWNED by daily, to be nerfed, just because YOU are not skilled enough to use it yourself.
Pathetic. 
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Selko Embries
QUANT Corp.
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Posted - 2007.05.06 01:37:00 -
[79]
Everyone asking for a module that affects everything is local really needs to understand that no Module should affect everything in local. I would argue that no module should affect anything outside of 250km. Especially something meant to find the submarines of Eve.
I have long been in favor of expanding the destroyers role to let them hunt for covert ops ships. But it shouldn't be easy and should require the destoyer to be in visual range. I propose the following:
1. a set of probes that can help get you close to a recon ship.
2. a module like active sonar that can get you inside the 2km range required to uncloak a stealth boat. (2km is still just about right to decloak me)
3. A change to local to prevent the blatant intel gathering that occurs now.
A system wide pulse is just rediculous and far to powerful to allow into any MMO, much less this one.
Just because you are pure evil,
doesn't mean you can't be rolemodel. |
Tammahawk
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Posted - 2007.08.01 16:00:00 -
[80]
personally you calf's need to stop wining about cloaks, its what the ship was intended for, and in no way should it be nerfed in any way as it is some people are using some exploit to find them now. and there shouldnt be i know from personal experience with out a single strand of dought, there is some way to find cloak ships , i watched a enh in his pos sitting there, all the sudden i seen him coming at me at high speed i moved quickly and thank god i was fast enough to evade him, i though maybee he was lucky, and just was moving around but when he landed in the exact spot were i was sitting, there aint no way he coulda done that its an exploit and it needs to be fixed, whats the sense of having a cloak if it does not work?, if it could be found it makes it a useless ship and i vote for no cloaking ships at all then you can take my ship and trash it if thats the case, u feel that threatened by a lil buzzard i feel bad for ya, must make ya feel like a big man to find a weaponless lil cov op ship, geeze the lameness of the people who want cloaks nerfed, get a life would ya, im in total favor of leaving every damn mod or ship in eve alone, cut the childish nerfing crap all together, everyone has an option to skill and use every ship and mod so why nerf ?, just because ur a lamer that got ganked by some other type of ship?, kinda lame if ya ask me, learn to play and stop wining if someone got ya with a certain ability, then train it your self and stop sniveling, my 2 isk Tammahawk
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Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr
Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.08.01 16:55:00 -
[81]
I have another idea... look in the CCP made guide for Moon Scanning. Right in there, they endorse AFK cloaking:
"This is where the cloaking device on your industrial comes in handy. At the end when you are still waiting for the last few results, warp to a safespot and cloak. By cloaking others looking for you with scan probes will not find you and you can peacfully go afk or jot down the results on paper."
Zhuge Liang, and ISD Forum Moderator made that post.
It's not broken. If they are AFK, they can't hurt you. Stop this nonsense.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.01 18:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Grey Area
No, no, no, no, no. You may think you have limited this module by making it a five minute anchoring time...but what's to stop every anchor capable ship in a fleet firing one off? 10 ships with that ability in a fleet and you're decloaking EVERY cloaked ship in the system once every 30 seconds. No thanks.
Every minute actually, at least after the initial 5 minutes. Takes 5 min to unanchor and 5 mins to anchor.
And, as said, if it's a one-use item such a behaviour would be rather wasteful and pointless vs a non-afk cloaker.
From what I've read, the most annoying afk cloakers are the ones that hide in people's home systems and continually harass industrial activity. I therefore think it would make more sense to add this as some sort of POS structure, with a limit of one per system (like cyno jammers), requiring fuel & level 3 sovereignty (5 weeks)
I'm tempted to suggest having them go off automatically once per hour (with random deviations  ), as well as a manual activation option with a 10 minute cooldown.
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
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