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Joahanas Stone Caldari Confederation of Red Moon	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:16:00 - [1] I was wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas in hunting down cloaked ships. If there is anything in the game that ****es me off more than a cloaked AFK alta left in a system to annoy the crap out of people, I can not think of it. Maybe the DEV's could come up with a speciallized scan prob to help locate cloaked ships, like warp within 15k. then a group can just run around poping smart bombs in hopes of uncloaking them. This would also not nerf the specialized covert ops, they would just be able to stay cloaked and warp away. the ships not ment for cloaks would end up uncloaking to run, or sweating as ships looked for them. On the flip side, might actually make smart bombs more usefull. To me, the cloak just seems a little too untouchable. No one should be perfectly safe floating AFK anywhere in 0.0
LoKesh Amarr SH Brotherhood R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:37:00 - [2] I do agree that there should be a way to hunt down people who stay AFK at a safespot while cloaked. Hunting down anyone just temporarily cloaked, maybe not. Perhaps a probe that could detect cloaked ships, but that had a huge cycle time? 45 minute base or more.
Joahanas Stone Caldari Confederation of Red Moon	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:50:00 - [3] My thoughts for this are not pointed towards the people that are actively using cloaks. But just having something that can be mounted to give a slightly inaccurate location. for instance. cloak ship watching gate camp or station. The prob would give a location approx 10 to 20k from possible location. ships that can not fly well cloaked might be in some trouble, ships that can fly at normal rate would easily be able to warp off or motor away from searching group. therefore, if you are paying attention being the cloaked ship, you can work around and re position your self. If you are sitting at Burgerking, well... you might loose a ship.
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:09:00 - [4] Get a bunch of ships to spread out over a reasonably large area (spread in all 3 dimensions, not just 2) and have them all launch light drones. Have each pilot at random tell their drones to attack different targets (each person should have each of their 5 drones attack different targets) and continually do this to create a fluid drone net that will probably decloak anyone that just so happens to be in the middle of all their flight paths (or warps in there). ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Joahanas Stone Caldari Confederation of Red Moon	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:21:00 - [5] cool, good idea. I also found this while looking through the scanning sticky Cloaked ships At the time of writing it is NOT possible to probe for cloaked ships. A dev said in a blog it would be possible to probe for them but it seems they either changed their mind, forgot about it or haven't got it to work yet. Sounds like it is viable in the future.
Xerrik Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.10 22:46:00 - [6] For me trying to find a cloaked ship would be like a desroyer trying to find a submarine in World War 2 era where you got a "rough" idea and had to use depth charges to try to "hit" it. Heck it'd make a good use for destroyers again wouldn't you think? I like the idea of an inaccurate scanner but why stop there? maybe add in "sonar" probes? all these would have to be used to try and determine the general area of where a cloaked ship might be. If the ship is afk it'd be easier to locate while an active ship would be both on the move and able to try and evade with a fairly good sucess rate (still). In a brief summary: 1.) inaccurate "radar/sonar scanner" with or without probes designed to find cloaked ships. 2.) add a new destroyer or add the feature into the old one for better resolution/ faster scan times vs cloaked ships They say you can't do it... But that doesn't always work.
Decrepus Raiders of the Lost Cans	Posted - 2007.03.10 23:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Xerrik For me trying to find a cloaked ship would be like a desroyer trying to find a submarine in World War 2 era where you got a "rough" idea and had to use depth charges to try to "hit" it. Heck it'd make a good use for destroyers again wouldn't you think? I like the idea of an inaccurate scanner but why stop there? maybe add in "sonar" probes? all these would have to be used to try and determine the general area of where a cloaked ship might be. If the ship is afk it'd be easier to locate while an active ship would be both on the move and able to try and evade with a fairly good sucess rate (still). In a brief summary: 1.) inaccurate "radar/sonar scanner" with or without probes designed to find cloaked ships. 2.) add a new destroyer or add the feature into the old one for better resolution/ faster scan times vs cloaked ships Agreed! I had the same idea in my head (as opposed to making it a salvager ships like the other smackards). I would also say NOS resistance/immunity but no one would probably agree with me lol
Crusix Bargoth Amarr Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 01:34:00 - [8] -One high slot item that sends out 100km pulses every 10 second cycle, these pulses pull them OUT of cloak. If its an active pilot he just re-cloaks and warps off if detected at range, in-active...motor up and pop him. -A new probe that does the SAME thing while flying around, just pulls them out and goes "OMGZ YOU FOUND A SHIP D00D!" any recon pilot worth their salt is gone before you get there, thats their place, get in, recon, get out. -Destroyers and interdictors get a 99% CPU or PG reduction like most other speciallty mods. The thing is to have it pulse at such a long range that they will pop up on over view, but still have enough time to get out if they're quality pilots. We need a mod that lets us FIND them, not insta WTFPWN them. And drone netting isn't the solution, its an annoying way to maybe do something. Just a thought. Originally by: Kaathar Rielspar nerf ponies!!1one
Kolwrath	Posted - 2007.03.11 02:14:00 - [9] Please Read this Thread about this issue and stop whining about a player not even playing you tin foil hat poster boy.
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.11 02:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Crusix Bargoth -One high slot item that sends out 100km pulses every 10 second cycle, these pulses pull them OUT of cloak. If its an active pilot he just re-cloaks and warps off if detected at range, in-active...motor up and pop him. -A new probe that does the SAME thing while flying around, just pulls them out and goes "OMGZ YOU FOUND A SHIP D00D!" any recon pilot worth their salt is gone before you get there, thats their place, get in, recon, get out. -Destroyers and interdictors get a 99% CPU or PG reduction like most other speciallty mods. The thing is to have it pulse at such a long range that they will pop up on over view, but still have enough time to get out if they're quality pilots. We need a mod that lets us FIND them, not insta WTFPWN them. And drone netting isn't the solution, its an annoying way to maybe do something. Just a thought. ohh gimp a class of ship to unusefulness? some of you need to get a clue. why not ask for cloaks to be gone from the game. these are paper thin ships and your fracking scared of them, they cant do much damage to a alert pilot. unless there in gangs. here is a tip, lock a cloaked ship and it cant cloak 2. stealth bombers have to wait for there missiles to hit before they can cloak again, thats if they want to actually do some damage. give covert op ships the abilty to use prototype cloak AND warp then some of your silly ideas can be justified but not when paying 75m for a cloak on a ship that will die in one volley aint. you aint catching a afk cloaker if you cant get close to him and deactivate it. why you ask? cloakers aint stupid enough not to set speed to max and **** off afk. my buzzard does 375/s with couple cheap named nanos, by the time you have "scanned" him down and warped he is out of reach.

freya james	Posted - 2007.03.11 03:09:00 - [11] Absolutly agree with Fuzz Buzz.........cloakers neveer go "afk"! They go afk while moving in a direction that has no "warp points" so go ahead and get ur scan probe or what not........but we wont be there when u get there.
SumDum Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 11:29:00 - [12] Coming from someone that spends most of his time under the protection of a cloak, I think the ideas about the destroyer specializing in hunting cloakers are great thoughts. Destroyers need love, and people that sit AFK for hours in a system in a cloaked ship should expect to come back to a nice view of the station through freshly cloned eyes. In other scifi interpretations of cloaking devices, they do not seem to be impenetrable, and usually could be detected if a concentrated effort was applied. Adding cloaking probes would not destroy covert ops ability to scout under protection of cloak, if balanced correctly this would only keep jerks from sitting in a system cloaked attempting to keep people docked or whatever psychological torments they are hoping to achieve by their presence.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2007.03.11 11:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Kolwrath Please Read this Thread about this issue and stop whining about a player not even playing you tin foil hat poster boy. What she says...
Phish1 Liberty Forces Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 12:18:00 - [14] Originally by: FuzzBuzz my buzzard does 375/s made me lol
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.11 12:43:00 - [15] I've lost count of how many times I've posted this, but I'm going to post it again: The problem isn't that cloakers are afk in your system, the problem is that you know they're there in the first place! A covert can't do anything but cloak and gather intel. They can't even cloak properly because of local so all they do is gather intel. Ohnoes, he's looking at me, tell him to stop mummy! ----- My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow
Chafin2	Posted - 2007.03.11 13:20:00 - [16] I think it all depends really on the area of effect missiles that CCP was talking about releasing for the stealth bombers. I know they've been wanting to kill the "blob mentality" of fleet battles. If they do release something along these lines and they are effective enough to become a concerning factor on the battlefield, people will really start to whine that cloaked ships are too hard to reveal. Following that CCP will most likely release modules that can detect and force cloaked ships into the open and probably create a new class of ship, or modify a currently existing one, that will specialize in using those modules. Theres actually a large vat of untapped forms of combat in EVE that have yet to be pulled off successfuly that can revolutionize how fighting is done in EVE. AOE missiles, cloaked ships that actually pose a threat beyond "insta-popping frigates", mobile force field generators (either 360 degree bubble fields that allready exist in the game or a lock and shoot-through-able flat wall) for fleet on fleet battles...whatever, the possibilities are great. Only real problem is balancing the new releases with what we have now. I just sometimes wish that there was more to the game than "break the tank".
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.03.11 13:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Wild Rho on 11/03/2007 13:19:48 Having cloaks require fuel to run the module would be a viable approach (with the specialist covert ops ships being far more efficient fuel consumption wise). It would help turn the cloak into a tactical module that you use when needed rather than somthing you can run 24/7 and go afk with.
Zezman Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2007.03.11 13:27:00 - [18] Originally by: SumDum Coming from someone that spends most of his time under the protection of a cloak, I think the ideas about the destroyer specializing in hunting cloakers are great thoughts. Destroyers need love, and people that sit AFK for hours in a system in a cloaked ship should expect to come back to a nice view of the station through freshly cloned eyes. In other scifi interpretations of cloaking devices, they do not seem to be impenetrable, and usually could be detected if a concentrated effort was applied. Adding cloaking probes would not destroy covert ops ability to scout under protection of cloak, if balanced correctly this would only keep jerks from sitting in a system cloaked attempting to keep people docked or whatever psychological torments they are hoping to achieve by their presence. BEST SIG EVER
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.03.11 13:54:00 - [19] I always liked the idea of some kind of system wide decloaking pulse. Long cycle time, to prevent 'cycle decloaking' but what it literally does, is decloak everything. If you're at keyboard, this is inconvenient, but not a killer - recloak, and you're done.
Draaki	Posted - 2007.03.11 14:16:00 - [20] Why do pilots automatically show up in local chat upon entry to a system anyway?

FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.11 14:37:00 - [21] ok, for some of these modules, like the pulse decloaker, something would have to be buffed in covert ops 5000m decloak field 2 second delay in recloaking after disabling cloak manually ALL covert ops ships can warp with cloak enabled instant cloak, no animation, or even quicken the animation one of the biggest threats to a covert oper imo is a nanoceptor, those mofos are to quick and if you decloak when something like a pulse fires, you can besure the ceptor is heading for you at 15km
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.11 15:18:00 - [22] A cloaked AFK in a system several AU away from you is no threat. It only becomes a threat when it warps near to you. Any module that instantly decloaks a cloaked ship will be overpowered - a module that shows the cloaked ship JUST to the ship with the module fitted, would be bearable - but will still require buffing of cloaked ships as follows; Covert ops ships; Allowed to use from cloak Passive targeter Target painter Cargo scanner Normal ships; Recalibration time removed Penalty to scan resolution removed All cloaked ships; Remove from local. After that, I think we'd have balance again --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.11 17:01:00 - [23] "No threat" is not really an argument for or against cloaks. Just because a ship "cannot do anything" while cloaked it does not make them balanced. A barge or indy do not represent any "threat" either and do not rececieve a survivability boost because of that. Also, a cloaked ship can be a very significant threat without uncloaking once. A cloaked scout shadowing your fleet can very well be the reason you loose an engagment. I would agree though that an instant decloaking device would be too strong, especially at gatecamps. I wouldn't see any problem with a 5 minute probe/decloaking pulse, though.
SumDum Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.12 05:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Damien Smith I've lost count of how many times I've posted this, but I'm going to post it again: The problem isn't that cloakers are afk in your system, the problem is that you know they're there in the first place! A covert can't do anything but cloak and gather intel. They can't even cloak properly because of local so all they do is gather intel. Ohnoes, he's looking at me, tell him to stop mummy! You know, I normally don't get involved in this crap, but your elitist attitude just rubbed me the wrong way today. I don't care how many times you have posted that, you will probably post it a few more times. Not everyone has the time to dig through archived posts to know that YOU have posted a response this stupid so many times in the past. What's the problem with local? Take ship, approach stargate > traffic control systems register ship as it approaches and uses said stargate > ship removed from local listing because traffic control computers have determined ship is no longer in system. Gate activation > ship enters system. Traffic control computers know ship has entered system because it used the damn gate. Presence is announced in local as an aid to travelers regardless of affiliation. A very civilized system. I will give you and your Titanic sized ego a couple moments to ponder why this might just possibly be so before I post another response to your extremly simplistic and insulting post. Also, look mommy he's looking at me? Ok, let's strip your skill points down to the bare minimum, stick you in a bloated mining barge and see how you like cloaked hostiles in your system. yes the system is setup to cater to care bears, it is also setup for unbridled PvP. Just because people want a way to attempt to locate and or decloak a cloaked AFK hostile does not mean you need to post your self serving comments about how many times you have posted a response to their idiotic theories before. take the time to consider all sides before you start bashing other people for having a thought or two. How to pwn
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.12 10:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Hoshi on 12/03/2007 10:18:04 Originally by: SumDum What's the problem with local? Take ship, approach stargate > traffic control systems register ship as it approaches and uses said stargate > ship removed from local listing because traffic control computers have determined ship is no longer in system. Gate activation > ship enters system. Traffic control computers know ship has entered system because it used the damn gate. Presence is announced in local as an aid to travelers regardless of affiliation. A very civilized system. So the pilot should stay in local list after he logs off or get podded then? Because there is no way for traffic control to know that he is not there anymore when either of these things happen. I think you should read up a bit on some dev posts, the fact is that local was never intended to be an information gathering tool and that invalidates your entire argument that it's supposed to work as some real life traffic control. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
SumDum Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.12 11:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 12/03/2007 10:18:04 So the pilot should stay in local list after he logs off or get podded then? Because there is no way for traffic control to know that he is not there anymore when either of these things happen. I think you should read up a bit on some dev posts, the fact is that local was never intended to be an information gathering tool and that invalidates your entire argument that it's supposed to work as some real life traffic control. So...killmails are just an out-of-game tool then? The information couldn't possibly be diseminated back to a traffic control system. Log off is log off, whataya gonna do. Devs don't want it as an information tool for who is in system, they why put flags on characters? Really dumb idea to add features to something they don't want in the game. I don't have time to read through dev blogs to find out how they didn't intend to use what for what. Simple fact is, local exists like it or not. Nerf it, and a whole new system crops up. This discussion started over anti-cloak techniques, which I am sure have been debated to the ends of the earth like everything else here. Does that mean that it invalidates every single thread about it til the end of time? It's funny how people will cling to the security blanket of cloak and lash out at any attempts to bring up a discussion about being able to penetrate it, thats all. I love my cloak, but I shouldn't be able to go afk in space for hours on end without risking being probed down by someone, simple as that. How to pwn
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.12 12:05:00 - [27] Originally by: SumDum I love my cloak, but I shouldn't be able to go afk in space for hours on end without risking being probed down by someone, simple as that. And when you can find a way to detect AFK cloakers that doesn't as a side effect make the life of every non-AFK cloaker in the game absolute hell, maybe we'll actually get somewhere. There are many valid reasons for cloaking that do NOT in fact involve PVP - the new exploration system being one of them. Exploration takes an AGE to get results. The last thing you need is everbody and his dog chasing you around while you do it - especially as the tell-tale local channel makes it quite clear to everyone that you are in system. Since there is no system that will guarantee your cloaker is AFK, then it's not justifiable to introduce a system that will detect ALL cloakers, and certainly not without cloaked ships receiving a substantial boost to their lamentable performance in return. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.
SumDum Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.12 12:25:00 - [28] Good point Grey, I haven't done much exploration probing yet. And I suppose sitting there long enough for the probe to finish would mos def get you killed, since you can't warp and have a probe succeed. How to pwn
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.12 14:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Aramendel on 12/03/2007 14:48:58 Originally by: SumDum Devs don't want it as an information tool for who is in system, they why put flags on characters? Really dumb idea to add features to something they don't want in the game. Because you could already get the information, although only by the more tendious and lag-induing way of doing show info for all players in the system. Basically, that change did nothing to the information content of local, but made it less tendious & unfun to get that information. The devs stated multiple times that they are not that happy with local as it is now, that is a plain out fact. Ignore it or accept it. However, they cannot simply remove it either. While local gives a bit too much information too fast without it we would be at the other extreme. So it has to be replaced with something else, not removed. And, while the devs are not happy with local I think they neither that unhappy with it to give the design of a replacement a high priority. So whileit most probably will be changed eventually it will still take a fair bit of time for this to happen. In the meanwhile nothing speaks against making small adjustments which improve gameplay, especially if they are low effort ones like adding flags to the avatars in local. Originally by: Grey Area And when you can find a way to detect AFK cloakers that doesn't as a side effect make the life of every non-AFK cloaker in the game absolute hell, maybe we'll actually get somewhere. Something like that has (at least partly) already been suggested. For example: Anti cloak pulse. Deployable structure, about the same size as a medium bubble. 5 minute anchoring time. Once anchored it does automatically once a systemwide pulse which decloaks all ships. Once used it is either destroyed (should then be relativly inexpensive to produce though) or has to be unanchored and anchored again to get another pulse. If you are in a cloaked ship & not afk you shout "ohnoes!", wait 5 seconds and cloak again and warp to another SS for the worst case that they timed a scanprobe to be finished at the same time the de-cloaking pulse happens.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.17 22:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Aramendel For example: Anti cloak pulse. Deployable structure, about the same size as a medium bubble. 5 minute anchoring time. Once anchored it does automatically once a systemwide pulse which decloaks all ships. Once used it is either destroyed (should then be relativly inexpensive to produce though) or has to be unanchored and anchored again to get another pulse. If you are in a cloaked ship & not afk you shout "ohnoes!", wait 5 seconds and cloak again and warp to another SS for the worst case that they timed a scanprobe to be finished at the same time the de-cloaking pulse happens. No, no, no, no, no. You may think you have limited this module by making it a five minute anchoring time...but what's to stop every anchor capable ship in a fleet firing one off? 10 ships with that ability in a fleet and you're decloaking EVERY cloaked ship in the system once every 30 seconds. No thanks. --- I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment.



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