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If a "pirate doesn't want/try to ransom, is he still a "true" pirate ?

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Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.12 02:54:00 - [1] Assume a purely hypothetical extreme situation where a newbie/carebear jumps into your gatecamp and for whatever unknown reason DOES NOT logoff to save his ship but instead tries to negociate a ransom, and all he gets in return is silence followed by a kill... and all you find in his cargo (if anything) is either courier mission crap or some worthless trinkets. Can you still call the gatecampers "pirates" or another harsher term is more appropriate ? Like, I don't know... gankbears or sociopaths, for instance. Now, assume a more realistic situation... where does the line between pirate and gankbear lie anyway ? _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Ridley Tree The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.03.12 03:01:00 - [2] Depends on ships, situation etc... Solo pirates or a small camp without webs is not going to waste time trying to ransom. A big camp with lots of webs and points, ship scanner/cargo scanner. Now we're talking ransoms. When we get a big camp going with said scanners we'll attempt to ransom pretty much everything BC and up. When we don't have such a camp going we don't. ---
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.12 03:24:00 - [3] like the unicorn and the loch ness monster, the gankbear is a mythical beast handed down through oral tradition to generations of carebears. often, carebears would sit around the campfire and use stories of the horrible bloodthirsty gank bears to scare nub miners away from low sec systems. the story usually goes something like this: you see, young industrialist, not every pod pilot pursues the noble professions of mining, hauling, or mission running. some pod pilots are so low, so empty of anything human, so malicious in their heart that they would rather prey on the hard work of others than work constructively for their own isk. these are the dreaded gank bears, and they are not true pvp'ers, for, as you know, the only real pvp is in 0.0 space. no these gank bears are not pvpers, in fact they spend their whole careers in a risk-free profession where they only fight those they know they can defeat. in fact, any true pvp'er could take out their gatecamp in a frigate if he wanted, but they know the gank bears are cowardly and will run away at the sight of a pvp fitted ship. now, my young ore minded friend, you may wonder, aren't gank bears pirates? NO!!! true piracy must be conducted in an asteroid belt, and a ransom must be offered. if you cannot afford to pay the pirate, he must offer you a more reasonable rate and apologize for being greedy. true, honorable pirates would never pod kill a victim. these gank bears do no such thing! there is no swash in their buckle and no swagger in their stride. they simply sit on gates in huge blobs and kill every hauler and mining barge that crosses their path. do not go to low sec young industrialist, for gank bears are everywhere, and they show no mercy. *** to the OP: pirate kills you, pirate takes your stuff. this is piracy. how hard is that to understand?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.12 03:36:00 - [4] Pirate kills your worthless ship filled with worthless materials, pirate attempts to or downright kills your pod too. Pirate income: close to zero Victim loss: variable, sometimes nearly none, sometimes very high Would have he ransomed you instead, maybe just maybe he would have gotten a lot more as he would have otherwise gotten, and victim would have gotten away cheaper. Oh, but I suppose there are smart pirates and dumb pirates, and the former are in a numerical inferiority compared to the latter, eh ? Or does a shuttle/frig/indy + pod killmail really mean that much more as cold, hard ISK ? So if a "pirate" doesn't pirate for the ISK, is he still a pirate then ? _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.03.12 04:35:00 - [5] You know sometimes after a long day of RL work all I want o do is logg on and kill stuff. There are those times when the hunting grounds are dead and all you find is shuttle, noob ship, frig...etc In that case, NO it is not about the killmail at least not for me. I just want to see sopmething that is not mine go BOOM. Now should I lock siad ship and he states in local he will pay, then I will gladly shoot him a ransom demand...otherwise just plain wrong place wrong time. I absolutely dispise the term "gankbear"(nice story btw above) it sounds more like a term that should be used for a mission runner who casually engages in PVP. Not someone who sits on a gate, hence the term gate-camper. However sitting on a gate does not always mean they are camping the gate. I do sit on a gate often but it is only cause I'm waiting for my tackler to lock down a tgt. Once he does then I jump in warp to him and lay down the DPS. Now mind you that if the tackler is not chasing anything great or just flat out has nothing on scan I will engage another ship on the gate for a quick kill(refer to 1st part of post). my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
Neal Cassady Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2007.03.12 05:05:00 - [6] also, pirates rarely know how much loot youve got in your hold. the other day my buddy killed a noobship with 10 mil in loot recovered
Moridin920 Gallente Dust Echoes FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.12 05:56:00 - [7] Well, I usually pirate solo, and I almost never ransom... Here's why: I can't tell you how many times I've seen the extra 20 seconds it takes to ransom somebody (Honestly, if you expect someone to make the decision to fork over millions and then actually do it in the 5 seconds some people give, you're never getting ransoms that way either. You are just pretending to be giving ransoms, because 9 times out of 10 that's not enough time for someone) turn into 4 of his friends warping in and pounding the hell out of you. Sure, the guy you had down is dead too, but that's not profitable. Also, some people like to self-destruct on you to deny a kill-mail or loot. When I solo, you get no ransom. Period. "Because I do it with one small ship, I am called a terrorist. You do it with a whole fleet and are called an emperor."
Mc Bane Caldari DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.03.12 07:12:00 - [8] are you calling me stupid? im not stupid. yeah i forget where i put things sometimes, but who dosent? dont call us gankbears call us ambushers. your walking down the street minding your own.. then haaayaaa!! krarate chop to the neck. NOW WHO IS STUPID, YOU JUST GOT AMBUSHED! ammmbushhh, did i spell that right?
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.12 07:40:00 - [9] why hello thar. todays lesson is ransoming in a gatecamp. the situation is, newbie jumping in and not moving, asking to be ransomed. a) it's a hauler. DENIED b) cruiser or the like not enough isk to be worth ransoming c) t2 ship it's not a newbie. pop and loot the nice t2 and/or faction mods d) BC or BS ransom can happen depending on how i'm feeling, if the moon is right and the like. a common course of action would be though: Pirate1: hey see local, maybe we should ranso.. Pirate2: F1, F2, F3, ... Pirate3: F1, F2, F3, ... Newbie: Bastards! You aren't pirates! Pirate2: huh? there you have it.
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.03.12 07:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Keta Min why hello thar. todays lesson is ransoming in a gatecamp. the situation is, newbie jumping in and not moving, asking to be ransomed. a) it's a hauler. DENIED b) cruiser or the like not enough isk to be worth ransoming c) t2 ship it's not a newbie. pop and loot the nice t2 and/or faction mods d) BC or BS ransom can happen depending on how i'm feeling, if the moon is right and the like. a common course of action would be though: Pirate1: hey see local, maybe we should ranso.. Pirate2: F1, F2, F3, ... Pirate3: F1, F2, F3, ... Newbie: Bastards! You aren't pirates! Pirate2: huh? there you have it. Yeah, it's pretty much the same here. Haulers definitely go pop, Cruisers always die, BC's and HAC's/CS's get ransomed if we can be sure they won't get back to the gate and we decide on BS's based on age. Also the bigger the camp, the more people you can ransom because you have enough webs and points to be able to immobilise them while still being able to tackle incomings, and the sentries aren't as much of an issue. In smaller camps more people get nuked. ----- My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow
tiller OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.12 08:58:00 - [11] Sometimes it's just gut feeling... In a small gang yesterday after DT we caught a CNR at gate, after being tackled the guy offered 300m isk, he said it was all he had. As we didn't have a ship scanner handy we all agreed to take the risk of splitting his ship open to see what dropped, BINGO, 1.15bill isk of officer mods dropped.... As others say here though, in a large static camp with dedicated webbers / tacklers we ransom anyone that will produce more isk than just the loot alone. All pods over 6 months or so are ransomed also.. Just one golden rule, never ransom a hauler. A hauler who wants to pay is a hauler worth *****ing open by force
Riho Gallente Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.03.12 09:49:00 - [12] cba to read evry reply... but heres my answer enyways :P i dont pirat much.. but i feel that if the pirat wants just to kill the target.. hes STILL a pirat... becouse he kills your ship and still takes our mods/cargo. i hardly EVER ransom... becouse i get smacked to high heaven when i do that. but i have met some very nice ppl tho :) who dont smack and who speak to me in a nice manner... those guys get a ransom and its usually a very small one :)... haulers i dont ransom... they are to fragile when im flying around in my astarte.... havent gotten one yet sofar.. but i can immagine i can kill it in 2 volleys or something :P so its kinda hard to shoot them to hull and ransom :P Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- <------ Hijack free space :) -----------------
Hypatia Iola Caldari Warhounds	Posted - 2007.03.12 10:40:00 - [13] the only "gankbear"-esque thing i see are the 15-20 man gatecamps. ever. that said, i'm honestly more and mre inclined to say "well shucks" about those too, because eventually i'll be pulling fleets through at a time, and then the fun will begin. so honestly i have no problems with anyone who doesn't loggksi, and only a small problem with those who do. that said, i'm quitting eve... can i have YOUR stuff? kidding of course.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.12 11:07:00 - [14] Early on I used to try and extend everyone the courtesy of a ransom demand. Now I just rip them apart unless they convo me or scream for mercy in local. Additionally, if we were planning on ransoming, and they do something annoying like scream for help in local, or stall, or swear at me, etc., then they get terminated with extreme predjudice. This is assuming that they're worth ransoming at all. 90% of the time it's just more fun to blow it up. If it's not a BS, a command ship or a faction ship or something, it's probably going to go pop. Life Begins at -10! FIX RECON PROBES
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.12 11:13:00 - [15] i ransom every thing if i can usealy its met by a ** off Originally by:** Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Dr Slice OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.03.12 11:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Hypatia Iola ... because eventually i'll be pulling fleets through at a time, and then the fun will begin. Well, the fun won't necessarily begin. Please see the following Diagram
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.03.12 11:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Dr Slice Originally by: Hypatia Iola ... because eventually i'll be pulling fleets through at a time, and then the fun will begin. Well, the fun won't necessarily begin. Please see the following Diagram wub wub slicey <3 Tbh - most of us pirates are griefers, nothing more nothing less, i pirate cuz i enjoy it, not because i need to make profit. So i prefer a killmail to the ISK. Pirate just sounds more acceptable compared to griefer. G o> INFOD Director.
Chr0nosX	Posted - 2007.03.12 23:45:00 - [18] Ransoming takes into account too many factors: Do they have stabs? Are their friends coming? Are they convoing or asking for help with locals? Do they have expensive loot?
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.03.13 01:29:00 - [19] ransom or not, provided the people in question have "done you over" in some way means their a pirate. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.03.13 01:44:00 - [20] So, would any of you have any sugestions as to how/why/what you could change (at a minimum) to make ransoming easier ? For instance, what if the "pirate" can activate a "ransom request" option once a target is locked, and that target can then select "surrender" at any time before he blows up ? What would a "surrender" do ? Well, it would OFFLINE all offensive/ewar/cloak modules the victim has, and set maxspeed to 0 m/s, and disable the ability to self-destruct or online any modules... then would give the "ransom request" initiator a free, 100% accurate cargo/ship scan window without the need to have any cargo/ship scanner equipped. The pirate can (if he wants) then select a "let him go" option... after negotiations. Wether the pirate kills you now or not is his problem, you already surrendered _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Thomas Torquemada Minmatar Universal Peace Corp	Posted - 2007.03.13 02:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Akita T So, would any of you have any sugestions as to how/why/what you could change (at a minimum) to make ransoming easier ? For instance, what if the "pirate" can activate a "ransom request" option once a target is locked, and that target can then select "surrender" at any time before he blows up ? What would a "surrender" do ? Well, it would OFFLINE all offensive/ewar/cloak modules the victim has, and set maxspeed to 0 m/s, and disable the ability to self-destruct or online any modules... then would give the "ransom request" initiator a free, 100% accurate cargo/ship scan window without the need to have any cargo/ship scanner equipped. The pirate can (if he wants) then select a "let him go" option... after negotiations. Wether the pirate kills you now or not is his problem, you already surrendered would work nice in a 1v1 situation, however a pirate no2 upon seeing the victims mods all go offline would just blow him up himself. UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide! Peace My Brothers...
Nyabinghi Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.13 04:47:00 - [22] There has been talk for years of making ransoming more feasible and attractive but nothing CCP could ever come up with would appease those who love to bask in the glory of podding anyone weaker than them. Ransoming requires more effort than your average pirate is willing to put out. Kinda like the high school bully who would rather beat up other kids for their lunch money than go out and get a paper route. ***
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.03.14 12:55:00 - [23] The better question is, does it matter at all? Some whiney saucebag carebears might feel a little better about their merciless destruction by disqualifying the offending pilots as pirates, but it really doesn't change anything, does it? And by the way, I rule you. ---------------------- Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.14 14:37:00 - [24] If you're trying to define pirates then i guess you have to compare them to a RL situation. and most pirate myths and tales speak of seabearing pirates simply destroying vessels and taking the loot. don't remember hearing a tale of a pirate that said "yarrrr pay me 100 golden shillings and thee can go on ya merry waaaaay yarrrr" DE
Chuck Mussolinia Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.14 15:09:00 - [25] Usually Pirates are too lazy to ransom. Another reason could be that a select body of pirates ransom and then kill the targets... I know I have paid people to let me through the gates and ended up being shredded by their corpmates saying "You paid Him not me" -------------------------------- Chuck Mussolinia Owner of 5000 Exotic Dancers Owner of 2500 Janitors Owner of 1 Prostitute Human Traffiking FTW
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:08:00 - [26] Originally by: Hypatia Iola the only "gankbear"-esque thing i see are the 15-20 man gatecamps. ever. Isn't that "true" PvP, 0.0 style? --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
easei Energy.	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:25:00 - [27] Randsoming is all about exposure. I really have no inclination to sit still for 30 seconds -1 min while having to explain the transfer isk function. This is just going to go bad on a gate (guns + people jumping in) or in a crowded system after the targets screaming for help in local. Last I checked there was no pirate code of honor therefore they can grief / gank as much as they want it'll still be classified as pirating. Energy Recruitment
Serret Nevets Puppets on Steroids	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:09:00 - [28] Lables are sooo pre-Kali. And the Infod pic is pretty funny Spanking or being spanked... it's up to you.
Balor Rand Caldari Continuum Rift	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:41:00 - [29] Quote: Last I checked there was no pirate code of honor therefore they can grief / gank as much as they want it'll still be classified as pirating. I don't know if pirate codes truly existed in real life. They probably did, you can't run any kind of operation like that without some sort of rules. Its human nature, where more than one person gathers for a specific purpose, rules, if not set purposefully, will evolve. As for a code of honor ... who knows ... probably ... every human has their limits on what they're willing to do. Wikipedia Article - Pirate code of the Brethren Balor Rand I'd rather slam my d**k in a sliding glass door than salvage.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:56:00 - [30] Who cares? La famiglia, l'anima, la causa.

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