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Noroswen
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.08.09 11:59:37 -
[31] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Arkoth 24 wrote:
They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store.
Have you played Valkyrie? It's actually one of the best VR experiences I have had. Not sure what you have against consoles but them putting games on other platforms isn't a legitimate issue.
I haven't had the chance to. Honestly I have nothing against Valkyrie or Nova. Nova however will likely not do any better than Dust. Valkyrie looks like an awesome experience, but the VR fighter sim is not exactly a crowded market in comparison to FPS games. Dust was supposed to be Eve on the ground for many folks. What it became was a lobby shooter that had little to compete with similar games. Nova will be much the same, even if it is a good shooter there are loads of good shooters out there. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
215
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:01:40 -
[32] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died.
So exciting! You just described every single FPS. Sometimes you can be even blown up with proximity explosives.
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Noroswen
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:13:06 -
[33] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
Awesome!
Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died.
So exciting!
Warp through the wrong gate, Warp Bubble/ Ganked Podded
Its not like you can't devise mechanics to minimize this without restricting it.
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
31960
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:35:15 -
[34] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died.
So exciting! You just described every single FPS. Sometimes you can be even blown up with proximity explosives. Spawncampers get booted from servers and this is EVE, it'll be worse here. And spawncamping is the closest equivalent to headshotting someone who enters a structure.
I don't mind anyway. It wouldn't be everywhere of course, but people would whine a lot about it either way.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3372
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:39:35 -
[35] - Quote
jita would be funny...
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Hengle Teron
Order In Disorder Curatores Veritatis Alliance
60285
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:41:17 -
[36] - Quote
It's like people want some completely different game... |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3372
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Posted - 2016.08.09 12:50:31 -
[37] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game...
yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14310
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:04:52 -
[38] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
216
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:06:45 -
[39] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:And spawncamping is the closest equivalent to headshotting someone who enters a structure.
I don't mind anyway. It wouldn't be everywhere of course, but people would whine a lot about it either way. All of these problems can be (and already were) easily solved in FPS-style (like after-spawn inluvnerability or even non-combat areas for interaction and trading), but discussing it here is pointless, 'cause no one believe we will ever have something like this in EvE. CCP needs to be really, really fearless to implement it.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14393
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:08:47 -
[40] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too
IMO it's that some people are never really satisfied. I've experienced the exact same thing in other games.
-When i played Mechwarrior 3 and Mechwarrior 4 and (briefly) Mechwarrior Online it was "I want Elementals (armored Infantry), I want tanks, I want dropships and aerospace fighters!!"
-When I played World of Tanks it was "This game could use some infantry"
-When I played X-Wing vs Tie fighter it was "I wish i could land and have a lgiht sabre fight" (plot twist, when SWG and SWTOR came out the XvT guys generally refused to play them lol).
-I've even heard off people complaining in world of warships that "marines landing on stuff" would make that game 'better".
Whats funny and sad is that people acknowledge that CCP has only really done one thing well (spaceships) while at the exact same time saying that CCP needs to add walking around to the game, despite the fact that it's been tried and abandoned. What makes them think CCP would do better this time? EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them.
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Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3376
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:09:44 -
[41] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not.
that would be better if i could go sailing with it
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14393
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:10:12 -
[42] - Quote
Arkoth 24 wrote: CCP needs to be really, really fearlessdelusional and unwilling to learn from the past to implement it.
Fixed that for you.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8529
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:11:20 -
[43] - Quote
Not this crap again...
At least it's not another ganker whine thread.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14393
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:13:11 -
[44] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Not this crap again...
At least it's not another ganker whine thread.
It's a part of the EVE Forum Triumvirate though. Ganking, afk claoking, and WiS. Three Immortal Horses that can never be beaten enough to die..
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
216
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:13:57 -
[45] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them. Citadels are ugly. Really.
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Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1454
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:32:29 -
[46] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Quote:They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. No. Its something else than that. Its not Dev's, its managament. They are only doing their job. Someone else thinks in what direction it have to go financially. No! It was the Dev's fault. The management had the vision it was the Dev's that couldn't provide more Psssssssssss
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Noroswen
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:32:34 -
[47] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too IMO it's that some people are never really satisfied. I've experienced the exact same thing in other games. -When i played Mechwarrior 3 and Mechwarrior 4 and (briefly) Mechwarrior Online it was "I want Elementals (armored Infantry), I want tanks, I want dropships and aerospace fighters!!" -When I played World of Tanks it was "This game could use some infantry" -When I played X-Wing vs Tie fighter it was "I wish i could land and have a lgiht sabre fight" (plot twist, when SWG and SWTOR came out the XvT guys generally refused to play them lol). -I've even heard off people complaining in world of warships that "marines landing on stuff" would make that game 'better". Whats funny and sad is that people acknowledge that CCP has only really done one thing well (spaceships) while at the exact same time saying that CCP needs to add walking around to the game, despite the fact that it's been tried and abandoned. What makes them think CCP would do better this time? EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them.
Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience.
As for CCP, aside from Dust they really haven't done anything but spaceships. World of Darkness never really existed, Valkyrie is space ships of a different bent, and Gunjack is well in space at least?
For those who see this as another WiS thread, which it is, my point is that even if Nova becomes a good shooter it will never be anything special. Taking that energy and building ambulatory content can likely be monetized and improve your flagship product. Additionally the Eve shooter which they are determined to make does not have to be an FPS. There are other options which can fit well with their existing products. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14310
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:33:39 -
[48] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. that would be better if i could go sailing with it Everything you need and even more.
Yes, i would prefer that over everything else.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Hengle Teron
Order In Disorder Curatores Veritatis Alliance
60297
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:49:13 -
[49] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. that would be better if i could go sailing with it Everything you need and even more. Yes, i would prefer that over everything else. I would question its sports car capabilities though. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14312
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:59:58 -
[50] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote: I would question its sports car capabilities though.
But it still have this powerful engine. And you cant outrun the projectiles.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Avanda Redblade
13. Enigma Project
20
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:02:57 -
[51] - Quote
I approve this product and/or service.
(please help support the off-topic quotes of the past) |
Lan Wang
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
3376
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:04:15 -
[52] - Quote
*wiped what i wrote and cant be bothered retyping
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14394
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:08:10 -
[53] - Quote
Noroswen wrote:
Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience.
"Gamers" is a generalization. What I like isn't what others like and vice versa. You have these pie in the sky "I want everything, all in one game!" gamers and you have people like a lot of us EVE players who say "do the one thing you do well, and screw the rest". You could call folks like that 'minimalists' for lack of a better word.
EVE is a game enjoyed by such minimalists (it is 'no-nonsense' to it's core, that what I love about it), and less so by the 'immersion' types (like role players, there is a reason the role play community is so small in EVE compared to other games like SWTOR which has whole role play servers).
Not everyone wants to be 'encompassed' or immersed in a game. Mainstream MMO players DO want to get lost in their games, want to suspend disbelief for a bit and become their avatars. EVE attracts the people it does (and turns off mainstream MMO players) not because it's hard, but more because it's a less immersive "chess game with spaceships" experience.
The WiS crowd (most of which are role player types to begin with) want WiS because it feeds more into what they already want. Those of us who actually like what EVE is now understand that WiS would dilute the game in an unfavorable way. Personally I think those people who want to be immersed in some kind of fantasy situation where they can pretend to be some guy in the future are better off playing Star Trek Online or waiting for a finished Star Citizen rather than expecting CCP to foolishly modify their game away from it's already winning (for more than a decade) formula. |
Noroswen
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:21:53 -
[54] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Noroswen wrote:
Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience.
"Gamers" is a generalization. What I like isn't what others like and vice versa. You have these pie in the sky "I want everything, all in one game!" gamers and you have people like a lot of us EVE players who say "do the one thing you do well, and screw the rest". You could call folks like that 'minimalists' for lack of a better word. EVE is a game enjoyed by such minimalists (it is 'no-nonsense' to it's core, that what I love about it), and less so by the 'immersion' types (like role players, there is a reason the role play community is so small in EVE compared to other games like SWTOR which has whole role play servers). Not everyone wants to be 'encompassed' or immersed in a game. Mainstream MMO players DO want to get lost in their games, want to suspend disbelief for a bit and become their avatars. EVE attracts the people it does (and turns off mainstream MMO players) not because it's hard, but more because it's a less immersive "chess game with spaceships" experience. The WiS crowd (most of which are role player types to begin with) want WiS because it feeds more into what they already want. Those of us who actually like what EVE is now understand that WiS would dilute the game in an unfavorable way. Personally I think those people who want to be immersed in some kind of fantasy situation where they can pretend to be some guy in the future are better off playing Star Trek Online or waiting for a finished Star Citizen rather than expecting CCP to foolishly modify their game away from it's already winning (for more than a decade) formula.
That is a fair assessment, the term gamers is a generalization. However I use the term immersion perhaps incorrectly. Eve is an immersive experience. No not in the sense that Star Citizen is with it's physics and first person depth. Eve is immersive in a different way, it is very much a world unto itself. It has politics, economics, its own rules and is dynamic. I cannot think of a better way to describe it than immersion.
I hesitate to agree with your minimalist notion though. Eve is anything but minimal. There are any number of different ways to play this game with none of them being wrong. So the idea of adding another layer doesn't seem to me to be the sole domain of role players. Especially if this new layer is given the same kind of approach in terms of variety which the rest of eve has.
Essentially I reject the notion that well done WiS content would dilute the game. Rather I think it would enhance it.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14396
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:37:12 -
[55] - Quote
Noroswen wrote:
That is a fair assessment, the term gamers is a generalization. However I use the term immersion perhaps incorrectly. Eve is an immersive experience. No not in the sense that Star Citizen is with it's physics and first person depth. Eve is immersive in a different way, it is very much a world unto itself. It has politics, economics, its own rules and is dynamic. I cannot think of a better way to describe it than immersion.
Immersion is relative. Most gamers wouldn't call EVE immersive, mainly because of the lack of avatar gameplay.
Quote: I hesitate to agree with your minimalist notion though. Eve is anything but minimal. There are any number of different ways to play this game with none of them being wrong. So the idea of adding another layer doesn't seem to me to be the sole domain of role players. Especially if this new layer is given the same kind of approach in terms of variety which the rest of eve has.
If there is so much to do, so many ways to play, what is the jsutification of another 'layer'?
The desire to see another layer added ignores history. CCP tried it. They failed. the reaosn they failed has a lot to do with hubris, but IMO it has a lot more with losing focus.
EVE is good imo because it focuses on one main thing (space ships) and every.single.other.thing in the game (except Project Discovery, which is a special case) revolves around that one main thing. Everything you can do in a station while docked is still a matter of space ships. WiS dilutes EVE by making the game about something other than space ships. While people are screwing around in a station they aren't in space.
EVE has enough non-space gameplay (the markets and production), it does not need more.
Quote: Essentially I reject the notion that well done WiS content would dilute the game. Rather I think it would enhance it.
Anything that takes any focus away from spaceships hurts EVE. Again, I think that people who want a more complete (less focused imo) sci fi experience should look for that in STO or SC rather than advocating CCP do something they have proven they can't.
CCP has trouble making SPACESHIP pve content (see "Drifter incursions", which don't exist anymore), what makes you think they could get Wis right?
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
583
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:38:55 -
[56] - Quote
As much as I like the idea of a fully fledged WIS in Eve.. I cant see it being technically possible without it turning into another huge dev time consuming star citizen type project with a release date of 2030.
One thing many advocates are forgetting.. EVE is not run on a fps engine. You cant create fps/avatar exploration content easily within the eve client.
However....
What could be done.. fairly easily and without taking significant dev time away from space.
an Expanded CQ
- a shelf to display heads of pvp kills. - a trophy rack for 1000 pvp kills, 5000 missions run, x number of ore mined, modules/ships produced etc etc - some content on the screens like a monthly in character eve news show on player content in game and how to get involved.
Essentially CQ could help memorialize the playing experience and encourage players to join in player run activities.
"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave." | zoonr-Korsairs |
Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
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Serene Repose
2619
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:49:07 -
[57] - Quote
All I can say, all you "imaginers", let us know when your new game releases. And, good luck with the crowd funding!
(Or is this something "they" can do...for you?)
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Noroswen
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2016.08.09 14:57:34 -
[58] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Noroswen wrote:
Immersion is relative. Most gamers wouldn't call EVE immersive, mainly because of the lack of avatar gameplay.
I agree it is very relative which was my earlier point that simply because eve lacks some sort of realistic physics does not make it any less immersive Quote:
If there is so much to do, so many ways to play, what is the jsutification of another 'layer'?
The desire to see another layer added ignores history. CCP tried it. They failed. the reaosn they failed has a lot to do with hubris, but IMO it has a lot more with losing focus.
EVE is good imo because it focuses on one main thing (space ships) and every.single.other.thing in the game (except Project Discovery, which is a special case) revolves around that one main thing. Everything you can do in a station while docked is still a matter of space ships. WiS dilutes EVE by making the game about something other than space ships. While people are screwing around in a station they aren't in space.
EVE has enough non-space gameplay (the markets and production), it does not need more.
I fail to see where they have really tried it. CQ got a bad reputation because it was both unfinished, and lets face it immediately after it was released the community lit the game on fire due to overprices items and other scandals. Other than to round out CQ they haven't touched it since (Rightfully because they where fixing other things which they had neglected). Lets say we don't consider that for a moment though, if you fail at something the first time you should give up? Quote:
Anything that takes any focus away from spaceships hurts EVE. Again, I think that people who want a more complete (less focused imo) sci fi experience should look for that in STO or SC rather than advocating CCP do something they have proven they can't.
CCP has trouble making SPACESHIP pve content (see "Drifter incursions", which don't exist anymore), what makes you think they could get Wis right?
Eve's strength isn't Spaceships. Yes they are the bulk of the game play but take out many of the things which truly separate eve from other games and the Spaceships in Eve are kind of unimpressive. So that additional layer could add to the things which make Eve great, which I do not believe is the Spaceships.
As for CCP I cannot defend their track record. They **** up. I do not believe though that mistakes are grounds for giving up. Frankly the notion that CCP has screwed up something in the past so why bother trying again is a bit, lazy.
Additionally CCP has the resources. They are going to be devoted to creating an FPS experience. If that experience is going to exist why not do it in a manner which compliments its origins instead of breaks away from them? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14315
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 14:59:51 -
[59] - Quote
When we compare EVE and others like Elite and SC, you can see that its all a battle of APC's rather than who drives porshe and who HMMWV.
They try to push for as much features/firepower as possible to dictate the conditions on battlefield. And even when CCP is standing strong with EVE, they are constantly shoot at and their vehicle is looking less impressive with every piece of stuff added to the rivals.
I remember when in CSM notes someone started with asking what car EVE is, like they perceive it.
I would rather ask them: where do you want to go with that campaign and with that vehicle, because there are others out there ready to shoot you in the head.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14397
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Posted - 2016.08.09 15:05:46 -
[60] - Quote
Noroswen wrote:
Additionally CCP has the resources. They are going to be devoted to creating an FPS experience. If that experience is going to exist why not do it in a manner which compliments its origins instead of breaks away from them?
They are creating a stand alone FPS game, not one built on the bones of an old game.
Have you not noticed that every time CCP introduces new content other things get broken? Where you around for the 1st WiS failure? The old saying that "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". CCP is a company with one big product, while you think they are being lazy, I know they are being smart by refraining from screwing up that main product.
CCP almost failed several times screwing with EVE (and several more by ignoring EVE altogether). Now they are doing it right, letting EVE be the flagship and limiting their expansive tendencies to in universe (rather than in game) properties
. Again, there are other games if what you want is walking around.
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