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Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2016.08.09 04:17:38 - [1] - Quote I know WiC has been brought up before but would there be any community support if CCP gives consideration to dropping project Nova and building the WiS content to be something akin to a ME style shooter? It seems the most flexible means of putting in shooter game play which you can add on all sorts of exploration and PvE things. Hell if revenue is the issue you could even make it accessible by some sort of plex like "permit". (Damn Caldari and their strict gun laws)
Lex Gabinia Res Repetundae 95	Posted - 2016.08.09 04:20:00 - [2] - Quote This should be fun.
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 418	Posted - 2016.08.09 04:32:58 - [3] - Quote We can only dream @lunettelulu7
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 55961	Posted - 2016.08.09 04:49:25 - [4] - Quote CCP might do it in a few years after more players have un-subbed. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 314	Posted - 2016.08.09 05:16:39 - [5] - Quote WiS would have been a slightly interesting pretty thing. A signature :o
Serene Repose 2618	Posted - 2016.08.09 05:45:36 - [6] - Quote LOL!!! WiS. I love it. We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3501	Posted - 2016.08.09 06:01:01 - [7] - Quote CCP are already building a PC shooter
Arkoth 24 Phayder 210	Posted - 2016.08.09 07:47:23 - [8] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP are already building a PC shooter Let's face it: EvE is the only good thing CCP made. You may call it an accident. All other project were just a waste of money or even never came out from development like WoD. And now they are sitting on EvE unable or being too afraid to create anything else. DUST was closed. Gunjack? It's not even a game. Valkyrie? It would be just another DUST for small bunch of OR-users: launch, make some money, close. As 'bout WiS - there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing" if CCP will even talk 'bout it one more time, so enjoy your Captain's Quarters. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14290	Posted - 2016.08.09 07:52:49 - [9] - Quote They will stick to Nova. But having an avatar exploration module in EVE would be freaking avesome. Imagine meeting someone in station in bar, playing roulette, drinking rum. Then he proposes you a deal, because he dont want to go alone to this site he heard about is in wormhole few systems far. Then you both jump in Asteros, and undock. You go to this wormhole he have bookmarked, and jump thru. Then imagine docking in some abandoned wormhole structure, exploring with this guy, but he gets shot by someone else who already was there, docked from diferent point, and he dies and its over for him, his spare clone is dead and he have to undock or he can observe by drone camera what is going on, or he can defend the structure from outside. You shoot the killer, then you shoot some more sleeper drones inside, hack a door and get the treasure worth hundreds of milions, escaping trapped room that starts to shrink, by shooting the security modules on walls in certain order. Then you buy more fancy exploration suit with all this money in some shop, and then you go to bar with strippers and rum. Better than Star Citizen! Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 210	Posted - 2016.08.09 08:06:56 - [10] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Imagine... It hurts. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure

Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 723	Posted - 2016.08.09 08:35:08 - [11] - Quote Together with atmospheric flight, I think WiS is the only true new area of play the game can expand into. More space that is coming with player built stargates will just be great and all, but really just another flavour of what we already have. I hope CCP put it back on the roadmap at some point, but I'm still happy playing what we have at the moment.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 212	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:05:44 - [12] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Together with atmospheric flight, I think WiS is the only true new area of play the game can expand into. More space that is coming with player built stargates will just be great and all, but really just another flavour of what we already have. I hope CCP put it back on the roadmap at some point, but I'm still happy playing what we have at the moment. Even F2P Star Trek crap got FPS-like missions, planet landing, walking in ship, and WiS of course. And it works: people like it. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14293	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:11:37 - [13] - Quote Just when I think about that now, everything what I have wrote earlier about this avatar exploration module, could be used in Nova as a mixed PvE/PvP mode, but the space flight would be presented only with cutscenes. The thing about identyfying sites and their availibility: It would be acquired from capsuleer NPC as missions, and they would spawn the same mission location for many players. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3502	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:27:30 - [14] - Quote Dust was actually quite an enjoyable experience, and to my understanding did actually turn a slight profit for CCP by it's end of life. It wasn't exactly a blockbuster sure, but it was a solid game, most of the disappointment came from the far reaching features they wanted to put in and failed to put in. As for Star Trek, it works because that's what people expect from star trek. EVE is not Star Trek nor should it attempt to replicate it just for the sake of 'well they have it so we should'. I'm not against meaningful WiS, but right now it's not integrable into EVE without breaking a lot of suspension of disbelief. For example, if you were to away mission to a planet, what would really happen in EVE is you would have your ship blown up while you were on the planet, making it somewhat pointless. Not that you can actually get out of your pod currently while in a ship anyway. So, lets see where CCP go with the Shooter, if it's got any open world aspects we'll see if it's got nice promise, or if it's just a lobby shooter.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 212	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:43:45 - [15] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Dust was actually quite an enjoyable experience... It was a shooter for console. Shooter. For console. Nevyn Auscent wrote: As for Star Trek, it works because that's what people expect from star trek. EVE is not Star Trek nor should it attempt to replicate it just for the sake of 'well they have it so we should'. WiS got nothing with Star Trek, with New Eden, with any other crap. It's just a way to gain experience and people interaction. Nevyn Auscent wrote: I'm not against meaningful WiS, but right now it's not integrable into EVE without breaking a lot of suspension of disbelief. For example, if you were to away mission to a planet, what would really happen in EVE is you would have your ship blown up while you were on the planet, making it somewhat pointless. Not that you can actually get out of your pod currently while in a ship anyway. Oh, c'mon. What happens with your ship when it's docked and you're out of pod? Common sense - use it. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14293	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:44:51 - [16] - Quote Maybe they could put at least a social module as a lobby for capsuleers and mercenaries. A joining point for two games. And some games there and strippers. Usual pleasure hub stuff. But its all a wishfull thinking I am afraid... Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14293	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:45:59 - [17] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: Oh, c'mon. What happens with your ship when it's docked and you're out of pod? Common sense - use it. Is docked inside. Invulnerable. And you would use a spare clone installed in exploration bay module in ship. After death of the spare clone the ship could be moved out of dock. You would never leave capsule. Your mind would be journeying between clones. With all those "would be" is one issue, CCP is capable of thinking, but they would need cash. Lots of it. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Geronimo McVain McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc 165	Posted - 2016.08.09 09:53:27 - [18] - Quote IMHO they should "abuse" the players more. Give them something like an SDK for missions or making interior for citadels. Corp painting for ships? The talent is out there, they just need to use it. Missions need to be approved by CCP but more boring then the actual ones is next to impossible.
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3372	Posted - 2016.08.09 10:00:11 - [19] - Quote yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Arkoth 24 Phayder 212	Posted - 2016.08.09 10:20:07 - [20] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Arkoth 24 wrote: Oh, c'mon. What happens with your ship when it's docked and you're out of pod? Common sense - use it. Is docked inside. Invulnerable. And you would use a spare clone installed in exploration bay module in ship. I know the answer. But Nevyn Auscent don't even try. Nana Skalski wrote: CCP is capable of thinking, but they would need cash. Lots of it. They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. Lan Wang wrote: yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations Better be docked than grind hundreds of the same beacons for a candy in the can. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure

Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3372	Posted - 2016.08.09 10:36:21 - [21] - Quote because grinding beacons for candy is literally the only thing you can do in eve Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2016.08.09 10:47:21 - [22] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations Ah yes but consider this. With a more active and violent walking component you could probably kill them while they're in there. I realize the likelihood of them giving Nova up is small to nonexistant but it does seem like there is at least some interest in using WiS to fill the gap which Dust was supposed to fill. Which sadly it never did.
NotTheSmartestCookie New Order Logistics CODE. 160	Posted - 2016.08.09 10:59:35 - [23] - Quote Noroswen wrote: Ah yes but consider this. With a more active and violent walking component you could probably kill them while they're in there. I realize the likelihood of them giving Nova up is small to nonexistant but it does seem like there is at least some interest in using WiS to fill the gap which Dust was supposed to fill. Which sadly it never did. It would be hilarious to see how every time a miner would try to approach one of the beautiful people he would be shivved by the guards and his corpse thrown out of the airlock. The tears would flow so hard that PI would break down due to all planets being transformed into Oceanic World (Salty). Unfortunately CCP will continue to invest millions of dollars to sell thousands of 5$ VR games. (And with CCPs track record I don't see a unicorn-sized buyout by Facebook happening either.) Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time. Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3. Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Yokai Mitsuhide Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 7084	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:09:21 - [24] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. Have you played Valkyrie? It's actually one of the best VR experiences I have had. Not sure what you have against consoles but them putting games on other platforms isn't a legitimate issue.
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 31957	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:27:19 - [25] - Quote I was wondering why there was no WiS related thread open. It's like, like, hell, a fly in your appartement you just can't get rid of. Sometimes it just waits outside the room ... ... and when you think it's gone ... ... it's comes right back buzzing around your face. ^_^ Let them implement WiS, or not - the players will sort out the rest. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14300	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:30:54 - [26] - Quote Quote: They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. No. Its something else than that. Its not Dev's, its managament. They are only doing their job. Someone else thinks in what direction it have to go financially. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 213	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:31:10 - [27] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: because grinding beacons for candy is literally the only thing you can do in eve Did you ever try to talk to someone? Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: Have you played Valkyrie? I'm hetero, sorry. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14301	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:38:44 - [28] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: because grinding beacons for candy is literally the only thing you can do in eve Mmmmm candies. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Tao Dolcino EVE University Ivy League 583	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:41:56 - [29] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: They will stick to Nova. But having an avatar exploration module in EVE would be freaking avesome. Imagine meeting someone in station in bar, playing roulette, drinking rum. Then he proposes you a deal, because he dont want to go alone to this site he heard about is in wormhole few systems far. Then you both jump in Asteros, and undock. You go to this wormhole he have bookmarked, and jump thru. Then imagine docking in some abandoned wormhole structure, exploring with this guy, but he gets shot by someone else who already was there, docked from diferent point, and he dies and its over for him, his spare clone is dead and he have to undock or he can observe by drone camera what is going on, or he can defend the structure from outside. You shoot the killer, then you shoot some more sleeper drones inside, hack a door and get the treasure worth hundreds of milions, escaping trapped room that starts to shrink, by shooting the security modules on walls in certain order. Then you buy more fancy exploration suit with all this money in some shop, and then you go to bar with strippers and rum. Better than Star Citizen! That's the game i've always dreamed of. And as roleplayer too. CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 31958	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:56:22 - [30] - Quote Tao Dolcino wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: They will stick to Nova. But having an avatar exploration module in EVE would be freaking avesome. Imagine meeting someone in station in bar, playing roulette, drinking rum. Then he proposes you a deal, because he dont want to go alone to this site he heard about is in wormhole few systems far. Then you both jump in Asteros, and undock. You go to this wormhole he have bookmarked, and jump thru. Then imagine docking in some abandoned wormhole structure, exploring with this guy, but he gets shot by someone else who already was there, docked from diferent point, and he dies and its over for him, his spare clone is dead and he have to undock or he can observe by drone camera what is going on, or he can defend the structure from outside. You shoot the killer, then you shoot some more sleeper drones inside, hack a door and get the treasure worth hundreds of milions, escaping trapped room that starts to shrink, by shooting the security modules on walls in certain order. Then you buy more fancy exploration suit with all this money in some shop, and then you go to bar with strippers and rum. Better than Star Citizen! That's the game i've always dreamed of. And as roleplayer too. Awesome! Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia

Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 11:59:37 - [31] - Quote Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: Arkoth 24 wrote: They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. Have you played Valkyrie? It's actually one of the best VR experiences I have had. Not sure what you have against consoles but them putting games on other platforms isn't a legitimate issue. I haven't had the chance to. Honestly I have nothing against Valkyrie or Nova. Nova however will likely not do any better than Dust. Valkyrie looks like an awesome experience, but the VR fighter sim is not exactly a crowded market in comparison to FPS games. Dust was supposed to be Eve on the ground for many folks. What it became was a lobby shooter that had little to compete with similar games. Nova will be much the same, even if it is a good shooter there are loads of good shooters out there.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 215	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:01:40 - [32] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! You just described every single FPS. Sometimes you can be even blown up with proximity explosives. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:13:06 - [33] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Awesome! Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! Warp through the wrong gate, Warp Bubble/ Ganked Podded Its not like you can't devise mechanics to minimize this without restricting it.
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 31960	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:35:15 - [34] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! You just described every single FPS. Sometimes you can be even blown up with proximity explosives. Spawncampers get booted from servers and this is EVE, it'll be worse here. And spawncamping is the closest equivalent to headshotting someone who enters a structure. I don't mind anyway. It wouldn't be everywhere of course, but people would whine a lot about it either way. "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3372	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:39:35 - [35] - Quote jita would be funny... Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Hengle Teron Order In Disorder Curatores Veritatis Alliance 60285	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:41:17 - [36] - Quote It's like people want some completely different game...
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3372	Posted - 2016.08.09 12:50:31 - [37] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14310	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:04:52 - [38] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 216	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:06:45 - [39] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: And spawncamping is the closest equivalent to headshotting someone who enters a structure. I don't mind anyway. It wouldn't be everywhere of course, but people would whine a lot about it either way. All of these problems can be (and already were) easily solved in FPS-style (like after-spawn inluvnerability or even non-combat areas for interaction and trading), but discussing it here is pointless, 'cause no one believe we will ever have something like this in EvE. CCP needs to be really, really fearless to implement it. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14393	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:08:47 - [40] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too IMO it's that some people are never really satisfied. I've experienced the exact same thing in other games. -When i played Mechwarrior 3 and Mechwarrior 4 and (briefly) Mechwarrior Online it was "I want Elementals (armored Infantry), I want tanks, I want dropships and aerospace fighters!!" -When I played World of Tanks it was "This game could use some infantry" -When I played X-Wing vs Tie fighter it was "I wish i could land and have a lgiht sabre fight" (plot twist, when SWG and SWTOR came out the XvT guys generally refused to play them lol). -I've even heard off people complaining in world of warships that "marines landing on stuff" would make that game 'better". Whats funny and sad is that people acknowledge that CCP has only really done one thing well (spaceships) while at the exact same time saying that CCP needs to add walking around to the game, despite the fact that it's been tried and abandoned. What makes them think CCP would do better this time? EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them.

Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3376	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:09:44 - [41] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. that would be better if i could go sailing with it Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14393	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:10:12 - [42] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: CCP needs to be really, really ~~fearless~~delusional and unwilling to learn from the past to implement it. Fixed that for you.
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 8529	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:11:20 - [43] - Quote Not this crap again... At least it's not another ganker whine thread. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14393	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:13:11 - [44] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Not this crap again... At least it's not another ganker whine thread. It's a part of the EVE Forum Triumvirate though. Ganking, afk claoking, and WiS. Three Immortal Horses that can never be beaten enough to die..
Arkoth 24 Phayder 216	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:13:57 - [45] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them. Citadels are ugly. Really. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Major Trant 287 Marine Regiment 1454	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:32:29 - [46] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Quote: They need to learn how to not throw it away for console, mobile, VR, and other "fast cash" projects. If they need easy cash - kick out the guy who's recoloring same dressing gowns for years, and make some new cool outfits for cash store. No. Its something else than that. Its not Dev's, its managament. They are only doing their job. Someone else thinks in what direction it have to go financially. No! It was the Dev's fault. The management had the vision it was the Dev's that couldn't provide more Psssssssssss
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:32:34 - [47] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too IMO it's that some people are never really satisfied. I've experienced the exact same thing in other games. -When i played Mechwarrior 3 and Mechwarrior 4 and (briefly) Mechwarrior Online it was "I want Elementals (armored Infantry), I want tanks, I want dropships and aerospace fighters!!" -When I played World of Tanks it was "This game could use some infantry" -When I played X-Wing vs Tie fighter it was "I wish i could land and have a lgiht sabre fight" (plot twist, when SWG and SWTOR came out the XvT guys generally refused to play them lol). -I've even heard off people complaining in world of warships that "marines landing on stuff" would make that game 'better". Whats funny and sad is that people acknowledge that CCP has only really done one thing well (spaceships) while at the exact same time saying that CCP needs to add walking around to the game, despite the fact that it's been tried and abandoned. What makes them think CCP would do better this time? EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them. Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience. As for CCP, aside from Dust they really haven't done anything but spaceships. World of Darkness never really existed, Valkyrie is space ships of a different bent, and Gunjack is well in space at least? For those who see this as another WiS thread, which it is, my point is that even if Nova becomes a good shooter it will never be anything special. Taking that energy and building ambulatory content can likely be monetized and improve your flagship product. Additionally the Eve shooter which they are determined to make does not have to be an FPS. There are other options which can fit well with their existing products.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14310	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:33:39 - [48] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. that would be better if i could go sailing with it Everything you need and even more. Yes, i would prefer that over everything else. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Hengle Teron Order In Disorder Curatores Veritatis Alliance 60297	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:49:13 - [49] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: It's like people want some completely different game... yeah i know its like buying a racing car then thinking mmm this would be better if it could go offroad too Why not. that would be better if i could go sailing with it Everything you need and even more. Yes, i would prefer that over everything else. I would question its sports car capabilities though.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14312	Posted - 2016.08.09 13:59:58 - [50] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: I would question its sports car capabilities though. But it still have this powerful engine. And you cant outrun the projectiles. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.

Avanda Redblade 13. Enigma Project 20	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:02:57 - [51] - Quote I approve this product and/or service. (please help support the off-topic quotes of the past)
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3376	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:04:15 - [52] - Quote wiped what i wrote and cant be bothered retyping Loyalist to Angel Cartel* Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14394	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:08:10 - [53] - Quote Noroswen wrote: Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience. "Gamers" is a generalization. What I like isn't what others like and vice versa. You have these pie in the sky "I want everything, all in one game!" gamers and you have people like a lot of us EVE players who say "do the one thing you do well, and screw the rest". You could call folks like that 'minimalists' for lack of a better word. EVE is a game enjoyed by such minimalists (it is 'no-nonsense' to it's core, that what I love about it), and less so by the 'immersion' types (like role players, there is a reason the role play community is so small in EVE compared to other games like SWTOR which has whole role play servers). Not everyone wants to be 'encompassed' or immersed in a game. Mainstream MMO players DO want to get lost in their games, want to suspend disbelief for a bit and become their avatars. EVE attracts the people it does (and turns off mainstream MMO players) not because it's hard, but more because it's a less immersive "chess game with spaceships" experience. The WiS crowd (most of which are role player types to begin with) want WiS because it feeds more into what they already want. Those of us who actually like what EVE is now understand that WiS would dilute the game in an unfavorable way. Personally I think those people who want to be immersed in some kind of fantasy situation where they can pretend to be some guy in the future are better off playing Star Trek Online or waiting for a finished Star Citizen rather than expecting CCP to foolishly modify their game away from it's already winning (for more than a decade) formula.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:21:53 - [54] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Noroswen wrote: Well the idea that releasing a game is a kind of fire and forget product is a little dated. Asking for improvements or new features to make the game, well, bigger? More encompassing? In-depth? I'm unsure of what the right word would be, is just a natural desire of gamers to have an immersive experience. Practicality of such desires aside of course, I don't think it is a bad thing to want that kind of experience. "Gamers" is a generalization. What I like isn't what others like and vice versa. You have these pie in the sky "I want everything, all in one game!" gamers and you have people like a lot of us EVE players who say "do the one thing you do well, and screw the rest". You could call folks like that 'minimalists' for lack of a better word. EVE is a game enjoyed by such minimalists (it is 'no-nonsense' to it's core, that what I love about it), and less so by the 'immersion' types (like role players, there is a reason the role play community is so small in EVE compared to other games like SWTOR which has whole role play servers). Not everyone wants to be 'encompassed' or immersed in a game. Mainstream MMO players DO want to get lost in their games, want to suspend disbelief for a bit and become their avatars. EVE attracts the people it does (and turns off mainstream MMO players) not because it's hard, but more because it's a less immersive "chess game with spaceships" experience. The WiS crowd (most of which are role player types to begin with) want WiS because it feeds more into what they already want. Those of us who actually like what EVE is now understand that WiS would dilute the game in an unfavorable way. Personally I think those people who want to be immersed in some kind of fantasy situation where they can pretend to be some guy in the future are better off playing Star Trek Online or waiting for a finished Star Citizen rather than expecting CCP to foolishly modify their game away from it's already winning (for more than a decade) formula. That is a fair assessment, the term gamers is a generalization. However I use the term immersion perhaps incorrectly. Eve is an immersive experience. No not in the sense that Star Citizen is with it's physics and first person depth. Eve is immersive in a different way, it is very much a world unto itself. It has politics, economics, its own rules and is dynamic. I cannot think of a better way to describe it than immersion. I hesitate to agree with your minimalist notion though. Eve is anything but minimal. There are any number of different ways to play this game with none of them being wrong. So the idea of adding another layer doesn't seem to me to be the sole domain of role players. Especially if this new layer is given the same kind of approach in terms of variety which the rest of eve has. Essentially I reject the notion that well done WiS content would dilute the game. Rather I think it would enhance it.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14396	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:37:12 - [55] - Quote Noroswen wrote: That is a fair assessment, the term gamers is a generalization. However I use the term immersion perhaps incorrectly. Eve is an immersive experience. No not in the sense that Star Citizen is with it's physics and first person depth. Eve is immersive in a different way, it is very much a world unto itself. It has politics, economics, its own rules and is dynamic. I cannot think of a better way to describe it than immersion. Immersion is relative. Most gamers wouldn't call EVE immersive, mainly because of the lack of avatar gameplay. Quote: I hesitate to agree with your minimalist notion though. Eve is anything but minimal. There are any number of different ways to play this game with none of them being wrong. So the idea of adding another layer doesn't seem to me to be the sole domain of role players. Especially if this new layer is given the same kind of approach in terms of variety which the rest of eve has. If there is so much to do, so many ways to play, what is the jsutification of another 'layer'? The desire to see another layer added ignores history. CCP tried it. They failed. the reaosn they failed has a lot to do with hubris, but IMO it has a lot more with losing focus. EVE is good imo because it focuses on one main thing (space ships) and every.single.other.thing in the game (except Project Discovery, which is a special case) revolves around that one main thing. Everything you can do in a station while docked is still a matter of space ships. WiS dilutes EVE by making the game about something other than space ships. While people are screwing around in a station they aren't in space. EVE has enough non-space gameplay (the markets and production), it does not need more. Quote: Essentially I reject the notion that well done WiS content would dilute the game. Rather I think it would enhance it. Anything that takes any focus away from spaceships hurts EVE. Again, I think that people who want a more complete (less focused imo) sci fi experience should look for that in STO or SC rather than advocating CCP do something they have proven they can't. CCP has trouble making SPACESHIP pve content (see "Drifter incursions", which don't exist anymore), what makes you think they could get Wis right?
helana Tsero Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 583	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:38:55 - [56] - Quote As much as I like the idea of a fully fledged WIS in Eve.. I cant see it being technically possible without it turning into another huge dev time consuming star citizen type project with a release date of 2030. One thing many advocates are forgetting.. EVE is not run on a fps engine. You cant create fps/avatar exploration content easily within the eve client. However.... What could be done.. fairly easily and without taking significant dev time away from space. an Expanded CQ - a shelf to display heads of pvp kills. - a trophy rack for 1000 pvp kills, 5000 missions run, x number of ore mined, modules/ships produced etc etc - some content on the screens like a monthly in character eve news show on player content in game and how to get involved. Essentially CQ could help memorialize the playing experience and encourage players to join in player run activities. "...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave." \| zoonr-Korsairs \| Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" \| Rafeau \|
Serene Repose 2619	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:49:07 - [57] - Quote All I can say, all you "imaginers", let us know when your new game releases. And, good luck with the crowd funding! (Or is this something "they" can do...for you?) We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:57:34 - [58] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Noroswen wrote: Immersion is relative. Most gamers wouldn't call EVE immersive, mainly because of the lack of avatar gameplay. I agree it is very relative which was my earlier point that simply because eve lacks some sort of realistic physics does not make it any less immersive Quote: If there is so much to do, so many ways to play, what is the jsutification of another 'layer'? The desire to see another layer added ignores history. CCP tried it. They failed. the reaosn they failed has a lot to do with hubris, but IMO it has a lot more with losing focus. EVE is good imo because it focuses on one main thing (space ships) and every.single.other.thing in the game (except Project Discovery, which is a special case) revolves around that one main thing. Everything you can do in a station while docked is still a matter of space ships. WiS dilutes EVE by making the game about something other than space ships. While people are screwing around in a station they aren't in space. EVE has enough non-space gameplay (the markets and production), it does not need more. I fail to see where they have really tried it. CQ got a bad reputation because it was both unfinished, and lets face it immediately after it was released the community lit the game on fire due to overprices items and other scandals. Other than to round out CQ they haven't touched it since (Rightfully because they where fixing other things which they had neglected). Lets say we don't consider that for a moment though, if you fail at something the first time you should give up? Quote: Anything that takes any focus away from spaceships hurts EVE. Again, I think that people who want a more complete (less focused imo) sci fi experience should look for that in STO or SC rather than advocating CCP do something they have proven they can't. CCP has trouble making SPACESHIP pve content (see "Drifter incursions", which don't exist anymore), what makes you think they could get Wis right? Eve's strength isn't Spaceships. Yes they are the bulk of the game play but take out many of the things which truly separate eve from other games and the Spaceships in Eve are kind of unimpressive. So that additional layer could add to the things which make Eve great, which I do not believe is the Spaceships. As for CCP I cannot defend their track record. They **** up. I do not believe though that mistakes are grounds for giving up. Frankly the notion that CCP has screwed up something in the past so why bother trying again is a bit, lazy. Additionally CCP has the resources. They are going to be devoted to creating an FPS experience. If that experience is going to exist why not do it in a manner which compliments its origins instead of breaks away from them?
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14315	Posted - 2016.08.09 14:59:51 - [59] - Quote When we compare EVE and others like Elite and SC, you can see that its all a battle of APC's rather than who drives porshe and who HMMWV. They try to push for as much features/firepower as possible to dictate the conditions on battlefield. And even when CCP is standing strong with EVE, they are constantly shoot at and their vehicle is looking less impressive with every piece of stuff added to the rivals. I remember when in CSM notes someone started with asking what car EVE is, like they perceive it. I would rather ask them: where do you want to go with that campaign and with that vehicle, because there are others out there ready to shoot you in the head. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14397	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:05:46 - [60] - Quote Noroswen wrote: Additionally CCP has the resources. They are going to be devoted to creating an FPS experience. If that experience is going to exist why not do it in a manner which compliments its origins instead of breaks away from them? They are creating a stand alone FPS game, not one built on the bones of an old game. Have you not noticed that every time CCP introduces new content other things get broken? Where you around for the 1st WiS failure? The old saying that "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". CCP is a company with one big product, while you think they are being lazy, I know they are being smart by refraining from screwing up that main product. CCP almost failed several times screwing with EVE (and several more by ignoring EVE altogether). Now they are doing it right, letting EVE be the flagship and limiting their expansive tendencies to in universe (rather than in game) properties . Again, there are other games if what you want is walking around.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14397	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:14:44 - [61] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: When we compare EVE and others like Elite and SC, you can see that its all a battle of APC's rather than who drives porshe and who HMMWV. They try to push for as much features/firepower as possible to dictate the conditions on battlefield. And even when CCP is standing strong with EVE, they are constantly shoot at and their vehicle is looking less impressive with every piece of stuff added to the rivals. I remember when in CSM notes someone started with asking what car EVE is, like they perceive it. I would rather ask them: where do you want to go with that campaign and with that vehicle, because there are others out there ready to shoot you in the head. Lets just ignore the fact that every time a new game comes out it's supposed to kill EVE. So far that list inculdes: Earth and Beyond (ie "E&B is gonna be so much better than EVE, EVE will be dead in 6 months because of griefing!!!") Jumpgate Black Prophecy SWG SWTOR Elite STO And yet EVE is still here and most of that list is defunct. Fortunately for us, those that are left seem to be as "Dying" as EVE.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14315	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:20:59 - [62] - Quote What do you mean by killing? My shoot you in the head term was about completely outclassing the competition. You forgot one thing with Star Citizen and Elite, they are still out there to "kill" EVE. They were/are slowly killing it. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14397	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:23:50 - [63] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: What do you mean by killing? My shoot you in the head term was about completely outclassing the competition. You forgot one thing with Star Citizen and Elite, they are still out there to "kill" EVE. They were/are slowly killing it. Prove it.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:24:19 - [64] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: They are creating a stand alone FPS game, not one built on the bones of an old game. Have you not noticed that every time CCP introduces new content other things get broken? Where you around for the 1st WiS failure? The old saying that "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". CCP is a company with one big product, while you think they are being lazy, I know they are being smart by refraining from screwing up that main product. CCP almost failed several times screwing with EVE (and several more by ignoring EVE altogether). Now they are doing it right, letting EVE be the flagship and limiting their expansive tendencies to in universe (rather than in game) properties . Again, there are other games if what you want is walking around. Well I suppose you and I are on different sides of the aisle on this. I never meant to imply in any way that I see CCP as lazy quite the opposite. Nor do I mean to ignore their past failures. I think if they devoted time to it they could get it right. I do understand and respect your arguments.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14315	Posted - 2016.08.09 15:50:55 - [65] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: What do you mean by killing? My shoot you in the head term was about completely outclassing the competition. You forgot one thing with Star Citizen and Elite, they are still out there to "kill" EVE. They were/are slowly killing it. Prove it. Maybe you could watch some You Tube channels and watch for yourself how they are developing the stuff, exactly where CCP dropped it? I thought its obvious and everyone interested can see it for themselves. Its not like all our gaming future is determined by only one game and company. And its crazy to think they will completely clean up all the EVE servers, because this is still different game than other two. But people have moved, they will move, they are moving. In the best option for EVE, they will not log as often as earlier. In the worst option, they will cancel subscription because of the common reasons I see everywhere: not enough time, not worth the money. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14397	Posted - 2016.08.09 16:12:58 - [66] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: What do you mean by killing? My shoot you in the head term was about completely outclassing the competition. You forgot one thing with Star Citizen and Elite, they are still out there to "kill" EVE. They were/are slowly killing it. Prove it. Maybe you could watch some You Tube channels and watch for yourself how they are developing the stuff, exactly where CCP dropped it? I thought its obvious and everyone interested can see it for themselves. Its not like all our gaming future is determined by only one game and company. And its crazy to think they will completely clean up all the EVE servers, because this is still different game than other two. But people have moved, they will move, they are moving. In the best option for EVE, they will not log as often as earlier. In the worst option, they will cancel subscription because of the common reasons I see everywhere: not enough time, not worth the money. And they will most likely be back like they always do in every other game I mentioned. Because What EVE offers is unique. EVE players are a real good example of people who don't really know what they want. When Star Trek Online was announced some proclaimed the end of EVE "because STO will let you walk around, and it will control griefing" STO does all that, and EVE is still here, because many of the vocal EVE players who went to play it and swore they would not come back, slinked right back when they realized it was a shallow experience. many of those people were pve/industrial types who hated "PVP being forced on them" as well as not having an avatar to 'identify with". Yet back to EVE they came despite it not having all those things they thought they wanted. That's because identifying with your avatar is generally unimportant, and the dangers present in EVE gives the experience VALUE that those other games (where you lose little except time) don't generate. That's why all the talk about SC (A dream) and No Man's Sky (which is turning out to be a joke) won't matter either. Because , again, people don't understand what is important to them. You seem to be one of them. BTW, "EVE is dying because these other games are coming so CCP better give me WiS" is simply a combination of anxiety ("I don't want my game to shut down") and manipulation ("this will scare CCP into giving me what I already want). Most of us can see right through it, which is why there is all this opposition to even the idea of WiS. If you WiS types could stop the counter-productive scare mongering, you might make some progress.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2016.08.09 16:32:03 - [67] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: BTW, "EVE is dying because these other games are coming so CCP better give me WiS" is simply a combination of anxiety ("I don't want my game to shut down") and manipulation ("this will scare CCP into giving me what I already want). Most of us can see right through it, which is why there is all this opposition to even the idea of WiS. If you WiS types could stop the counter-productive scare mongering, you might make some progress. I realize this was not directed at me but I never used that as a basis for my argument.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14318	Posted - 2016.08.09 16:52:56 - [68] - Quote Quote: BTW, "EVE is dying because these other games are coming so CCP better give me WiS" is simply a combination of anxiety ("I don't want my game to shut down") and manipulation ("this will scare CCP into giving me what I already want). Most of us can see right through it, which is why there is all this opposition to even the idea of WiS. If you WiS types could stop the counter-productive scare mongering, you might make some progress. You are not able to see thru what motivates me. I will clear this issue. I have 4 years more of training time in EVE. I can stay logged out for 4 years, until my subscription runs out here. I already bookmarked myself in the future of EVE, that I will be here, at least from time to time. But I am afraid I will really have to move to other game and not log on for months because EVE as good as it is, could not stand up to my expectations. Community is already not something what keeps me here. Maybe some particular players only. You can stay playing it, but its not for everyone and your friends will stop at some point and move elsewhere. If you would try to stay, you will feel lonely in MMORPG. SC with its multiplayer allows stil for a group play. I am trying to rise above the usual "naah, meh" stance that would result in marginalization of players like me and in effect EVE in long term, and I present my oppinion for how to fight for brighter future of EVE and CCP. This WiS thing is not new at all, and it will never worn out. So its not like I am here because I dont care. If I woudnt care, you would not see me here posting this stuff over and over. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14319	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:10:53 - [69] - Quote Fot petes sake, why we do have those avatars? Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Beta Maoye 124	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:13:35 - [70] - Quote WIS will be a waste of development time and money if it is created just for the purpose of 'walking' in station. It will be abandoned and deserted quickly if it has no reason for players to use. The WIS concept has to be embedded in a larger game plan and framework in order to be meaningful. Nova is supposed to be a decent FPS game that should be stand on its own feet. While the primary goal is to create a successful FPS game, the secondary goal should be the readiness to merge with the EVE world. I hope there will be some high level plans in the beginning for both worlds such as shared market, space station combat, naval boarding combat and planetary lading operation. CCP please don't forget the lessons from DUST. Don't let those obstacles that prevent DUST from merging with EVE to get in the way of Nova. I look forward to shoot inside a Citadel.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14397	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:22:27 - [71] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Quote: BTW, "EVE is dying because these other games are coming so CCP better give me WiS" is simply a combination of anxiety ("I don't want my game to shut down") and manipulation ("this will scare CCP into giving me what I already want). Most of us can see right through it, which is why there is all this opposition to even the idea of WiS. If you WiS types could stop the counter-productive scare mongering, you might make some progress. You are not able to see thru what motivates me. I will clear this issue. I have 4 years more of training time in EVE. I can stay logged out for 4 years, until my subscription runs out here. I already bookmarked myself in the future of EVE, that I will be here, at least from time to time. But I am afraid I will really have to move to other game and not log on for months because EVE as good as it is, could not stand up to my expectations. Community is already not something what keeps me here. Maybe some particular players only. You can stay playing it, but its not for everyone and your friends will stop at some point and move elsewhere. If you would try to stay, you will feel lonely in MMORPG. SC with its multiplayer allows stil for a group play. Found and highlighted not only your problem, but the central problem with most people on this forum dissatisfied weith EVE (but somehow not enough to leave). It comes down to expectations. I like EVE because I don't expect it to be anything other than what it is. You dislike it because it's not what you THINK it should be. That's a personal issue and no one can do anything about that. But I bring it up because it proves what is for me a central point in many discussions I've had here: The problem isn't the game, it's you. I'm enjoying the hell out of EVE. As for 'feeling lonely', well, speak for yourself I've met many people in EVE, i've made some friendships with people who used to play and no longer play, I play other games with a couple of them, Planetside, League of Legends and World of Warships. There is nothing wrong with those other space games, but they can't give me what EVe gives me, which is FREEDOM from undue restraint (even though I don't gank and scam and what-not, I like knowing I could if I wanted without some nanny arsed game GM jumping my bones for it like you'd get in those other games). I have no need to be some space here with a machine gun fighting deck to deck on some space fighter. Quote: I am trying to rise above the usual "naah, meh" stance that would result in marginalization of players like me and in effect EVE in long term, and I present my oppinion for how to fight for brighter future of EVE and CCP. This WiS thing is not new at all, and it will never worn out. So its not like I am here because I dont care. If I woudnt care, you would not see me here posting this stuff over and over. And I dont think CCP is not scared already. Any marginalization is self inflicted. WiS was a dumb idea that CCP tried and abandoned in favor of a leaner, more focused experience. That's what they should keep doing, not pursue some fantasy "I want to walk to a virtual bar and drink a drink I can't taste" WiS stuff.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:23:48 - [72] - Quote Beta Maoye wrote: WIS will be a waste of development time and money if it is created just for the purpose of 'walking' in station. It will be abandoned and deserted quickly if it has no reason for players to use. The WIS concept has to be embedded in a larger game plan and framework in order to be meaningful. Nova is supposed to be a decent FPS game that should be stand on its own feet. While the primary goal is to create a successful FPS game, the secondary goal should be the readiness to merge with the EVE world. I hope there will be some high level plans in the beginning for both worlds such as shared market, space station combat, naval boarding combat and planetary lading operation. CCP please don't forget the lessons from DUST. Don't let those obstacles that prevent DUST from merging with EVE to get in the way of Nova. I look forward to shoot inside a Citadel. Well put. Which leads me back to my original post. Why not use the assets which have already been created, both in the FPS realm and with the carbon engines and use them to create a WiS capacity which has potential to enhance eve. Judging from the look of CQ a mass effect inspired game could be made viable and without a lot of bells and whistles.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:33:29 - [73] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: Quote: BTW, "EVE is dying because these other games are coming so CCP better give me WiS" is simply a combination of anxiety ("I don't want my game to shut down") and manipulation ("this will scare CCP into giving me what I already want). Most of us can see right through it, which is why there is all this opposition to even the idea of WiS. If you WiS types could stop the counter-productive scare mongering, you might make some progress. You are not able to see thru what motivates me. I will clear this issue. I have 4 years more of training time in EVE. I can stay logged out for 4 years, until my subscription runs out here. I already bookmarked myself in the future of EVE, that I will be here, at least from time to time. But I am afraid I will really have to move to other game and not log on for months because EVE as good as it is, could not stand up to my expectations. Community is already not something what keeps me here. Maybe some particular players only. You can stay playing it, but its not for everyone and your friends will stop at some point and move elsewhere. If you would try to stay, you will feel lonely in MMORPG. SC with its multiplayer allows stil for a group play. Found and highlighted not only your problem, but the central problem with most people on this forum dissatisfied weith EVE (but somehow not enough to leave). It comes down to expectations. I like EVE because I don't expect it to be anything other than what it is. You dislike it because it's not what you THINK it should be. That's a personal issue and no one can do anything about that. But I bring it up because it proves what is for me a central point in many discussions I've had here: The problem isn't the game, it's you. I'm enjoying the hell out of EVE. As for 'feeling lonely', well, speak for yourself I've met many people in EVE, i've made some friendships with people who used to play and no longer play, I play other games with a couple of them, Planetside, League of Legends and World of Warships. There is nothing wrong with those other space games, but they can't give me what EVe gives me, which is FREEDOM from undue restraint (even though I don't gank and scam and what-not, I like knowing I could if I wanted without some nanny arsed game GM jumping my bones for it like you'd get in those other games). I have no need to be some space here with a machine gun fighting deck to deck on some space fighter. Quote: I am trying to rise above the usual "naah, meh" stance that would result in marginalization of players like me and in effect EVE in long term, and I present my oppinion for how to fight for brighter future of EVE and CCP. This WiS thing is not new at all, and it will never worn out. So its not like I am here because I dont care. If I woudnt care, you would not see me here posting this stuff over and over. And I dont think CCP is not scared already. Any marginalization is self inflicted. WiS was a dumb idea that CCP tried and abandoned in favor of a leaner, more focused experience. That's what they should keep doing, not pursue some fantasy "I want to walk to a virtual bar and drink a drink I can't taste" WiS stuff. I think you've inadvertently validated why there is support for this. I am not personally dissatisfied with eve nor do I believe everyone who wants good WiS is. But there really isn't another game to go to which offers what eve does. Spaceships can be had in lots of games. But the kind of freedom Eve offers cannot be found else where. No one is trying to threaten the type of experience you have when you play eve. What they are trying to do is expand that experience, not for you the person who has no interest in it, but for the people who do. Because as you pointed out that undue restraint is what makes Eve special. So by taking that quality and applying it to WiS content which is also leaner and focused you create a better game. While I am not one of the Eve is dieing crowd Eve has survived this long pr+¬cises because it is a game which constantly seeks to improve. Even if it has failed at this previously. The eve you play now is not Eve in 2003. So who is to say that well designed WiS content wouldn't further the game to be something more in the future?
Beta Maoye 124	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:49:47 - [74] - Quote Noroswen wrote: Beta Maoye wrote: WIS will be a waste of development time and money if it is created just for the purpose of 'walking' in station. It will be abandoned and deserted quickly if it has no reason for players to use. The WIS concept has to be embedded in a larger game plan and framework in order to be meaningful. Nova is supposed to be a decent FPS game that should be stand on its own feet. While the primary goal is to create a successful FPS game, the secondary goal should be the readiness to merge with the EVE world. I hope there will be some high level plans in the beginning for both worlds such as shared market, space station combat, naval boarding combat and planetary lading operation. CCP please don't forget the lessons from DUST. Don't let those obstacles that prevent DUST from merging with EVE to get in the way of Nova. I look forward to shoot inside a Citadel. Well put. Which leads me back to my original post. Why not use the assets which have already been created, both in the FPS realm and with the carbon engines and use them to create a WiS capacity which has potential to enhance eve. Judging from the look of CQ a mass effect inspired game could be made viable and without a lot of bells and whistles. I don't know about the engine things. However, I noticed, apart from technical challenges, other obstacles includes undue influences from stakeholders inside and outside the game. Human factors are often more difficult to be tackled than technical problems. I don't want Nova to follow the ****** tracks of DUST.
Lex Gabinia Res Repetundae 99	Posted - 2016.08.09 17:58:39 - [75] - Quote Noroswen wrote: I think you've inadvertently validated why there is support for this. I am not personally dissatisfied with eve nor do I believe everyone who wants good WiS is. But there really isn't another game to go to which offers what eve does. Spaceships can be had in lots of games. But the kind of freedom Eve offers cannot be found else where. No one is trying to threaten the type of experience you have when you play eve. What they are trying to do is expand that experience, not for you the person who has no interest in it, but for the people who do. Because as you pointed out that undue restraint is what makes Eve special. So by taking that quality and applying it to WiS content which is also leaner and focused you create a better game. While I am not one of the Eve is dieing crowd Eve has survived this long pr+¬cises because it is a game which constantly seeks to improve. Even if it has failed at this previously. The eve you play now is not Eve in 2003. So who is to say that well designed WiS content wouldn't further the game to be something more in the future? How does the WiS content influence the greater EVE universe? It seems to me it becomes a game within a game that kind of stands alone as a half measure FPS. Which leads me to ask why we need an FPS wrapped inside a spaceship game. I also beta tested and played Earth and Beyond so I've experienced the *get out of ship to retrieve missions" playstyle. It really became just a time sink after the first few times. To be clear, I am not against WiS just on principal either. It just seems we might end up with a split universe if done poorly.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14319	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:00:34 - [76] - Quote Quote: Found and highlighted not only your problem, but the central problem with most people on this forum dissatisfied weith EVE (but somehow not enough to leave). It comes down to expectations. I like EVE because I don't expect it to be anything other than what it is. You dislike it because it's not what you THINK it should be. First, why we dont leave? You seem not to realize why people could stay here? Be serious, think. Friends, spaceships, actual features, many others.... Expectations. You know its that some people had expectations all the time they were playing EVE? Time when they played Elite on 8-bit computer? Its all about the expectations that can be fulfilled. And I don not dislike the game. Stop with this counterpropaganda thing, its fanboy stuff. I like it, but my expectations were always greater but EVE was always more closer to it than everything else. But situation is changing. Those who dont adapt, will be put to their quickly forming niche inside niche. I know some creatures that still after millions of years stay in their niche and does not evolve. Lovely. PS: its this crustacean on the left. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:12:19 - [77] - Quote Lex Gabinia wrote: How does the WiS content influence the greater EVE universe? It seems to me it becomes a game within a game that kind of stands alone as a half measure FPS. Which leads me to ask why we need an FPS wrapped inside a spaceship game. I also beta tested and played Earth and Beyond so I've experienced the *get out of ship to retrieve missions" playstyle. It really became just a time sink after the first few times. To be clear, I am not against WiS just on principal either. It just seems we might end up with a split universe if done poorly. A fair question. I suppose my opinion on it comes down to how I have always viewed eve. Remember that whole Butterfly effects video they did way back when? A bit over the top of course but still some truth. Consider the scenario, someone locks down a supercap. They are logically going to put out a call in their corporation who will undoubtedly flock like moths to the flame. Maybe the owner has some friends as well and the situation potentially escalates. It's happened to most of us at some point right? So who's to say a well designed WiS system couldn't expand this? I never played Earth and Beyond myself so I cannot comment as to the time sink nature of it. I also don't want to get bogged down in potential mechanics because that discussion could go on forever. As to why you would want the WiS in the first place it simply comes down to flexibility. Many people like Nana Skalski have no interest in it and that is fine. It seems though that others do want the ability to disembark do something, Embark and do something else. I know there are purists out there but as I stated earlier Eve today is not the Eve of yesterday. That is why Eve is still around. A well made WiS may help it survive and be a better Eve of tomorrow.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14319	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:25:05 - [78] - Quote Quote: As to why you would want the WiS in the first place it simply comes down to flexibility. Many people like Nana Skalski have no interest in it and that is fine. You have mistaken me with someone else. And if SC will flop on its **** and crush its skull on the gutter (not really happening at that point), I will not cry, because I will still have EVE. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:39:33 - [79] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Quote: As to why you would want the WiS in the first place it simply comes down to flexibility. Many people like Nana Skalski have no interest in it and that is fine. You have mistaken me with someone else. And if SC will flop on its **** and crush its skull on the gutter (not really happening at that point), I will not cry, because I will still have EVE. You are absolutely right I did, I meant Jenn aSide. My apologies I wasn't paying close enough attention.
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14319	Posted - 2016.08.09 18:46:27 - [80] - Quote Quote: I know there are purists out there but as I stated earlier Eve today is not the Eve of yesterday. That is why Eve is still around. A well made WiS may help it survive and be a better Eve of tomorrow. It was when EVE got the greatest updates and hype was the greatest when the amount of players was rising, there were talks about WIS, planetary flight, and many other things, and CCP assured us we will get there. No one was thinking it will be like that, with Monocles and other stuff that was left behind, and this demo on earlier fanfest we got, was only making people feel cheated. Like in "I gave my monies for this stuff? CCP didn deliver. And they want even more monies now?" Its a long story why they needed the monies from monocles in the first place, for PSSHHHH WoD perhaps?... Who really knows... Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.

Khergit Deserters Crom's Angels 4579	Posted - 2016.08.10 02:40:42 - [81] - Quote The DUST experiment really was next-gen gaming thinking. Two co-meshed games, enmeshed together with each other. That makes the sad part even more tragic. CCP's a comparatively small company I guess, they didn't have an army operation for developing, deploying, making it the hyped-up seemless experience everybody was pre-ordering and waiting to buy. But anyway, I still think some kind of WiS scripted or non-scripted adventures could help the game get and retain some new players. Common observation of friends cajoled into trial accounts in EVE: Evening 1: "Beautiful space art! Spaceships design is amazing..." Evening 2: "Wait, is there a way to manually control your ship? You mean, no twitch at all?" Evening 3: "Can I get out of this ship and see my char? Is my char just my ship?" These are not dumb people or impatient people. They're just new people checking out any kind of internet game, and deciding whether they want to check it out again tomorrow after work/school. EVE's bath water is a little murky, but that's because of the precious lil baby in it. Just because MMO players are used to being twitch-based or having chars Pvping with toons with boots on the ground doesn't mean they're noob/dumb. It just means that's what they're used to when they test drive a new MMO. Start the bubble machine! -Lawrence Welk
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 3330	Posted - 2016.08.10 03:31:05 - [82] - Quote Woop woop! In at page 5 on WIS megathread 271-b.
Tao Dolcino EVE University Ivy League 585	Posted - 2016.08.10 04:12:28 - [83] - Quote Beta Maoye wrote: Nova is supposed to be a decent FPS game that should be stand on its own feet. While the primary goal is to create a successful FPS game, the secondary goal should be the readiness to merge with the EVE world. I hope there will be some high level plans in the beginning for both worlds such as shared market, space station combat, naval boarding combat and planetary lading operation. Except that a lot of people don't have a VR equipment, don't want to buy one, and don't want to use one. It's whole different thing to sit quietly at the pc with a keyboard and a mouse or to use this kind of equipment. Things are not automatically better just because they are new. Gadgets don't make a game deeper. CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
Arkoth 24 Phayder 220	Posted - 2016.08.10 08:55:27 - [84] - Quote Khergit Deserters wrote: The DUST experiment really was next-gen gaming thinking. Two co-meshed games, enmeshed together with each other. Two games under the one client would be just enough. Just let people switch to FPS right from the station, the citadel, the any-other-docking-bay - and everyone will be happy: you can mess on the ground or never leave your capsule and don't give a drek to new game. Some interaction would be fine too, like resourses collected from ground combat or making and selling ammo and equipment for troops in space, but it's just a dream, you know. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2016.08.10 10:58:31 - [85] - Quote Khergit Deserters wrote: The DUST experiment really was next-gen gaming thinking. Two co-meshed games, enmeshed together with each other. That makes the sad part even more tragic. CCP's a comparatively small company I guess, they didn't have an army operation for developing, deploying, making it the hyped-up seemless experience everybody was pre-ordering and waiting to buy. But anyway, I still think some kind of WiS scripted or non-scripted adventures could help the game get and retain some new players. Common observation of friends cajoled into trial accounts in EVE: Evening 1: "Beautiful space art! Spaceships design is amazing..." Evening 2: "Wait, is there a way to manually control your ship? You mean, no twitch at all?" Evening 3: "Can I get out of this ship and see my char? Is my char just my ship?" These are not dumb people or impatient people. They're just new people checking out any kind of internet game, and deciding whether they want to check it out again tomorrow after work/school. EVE's bath water is a little murky, but that's because of the precious lil baby in it. Just because MMO players are used to being twitch-based or having chars Pvping with toons with boots on the ground doesn't mean they're noob/dumb. It just means that's what they're used to when they test drive a new MMO. Well what made Dust so tragic wasn't that it didn't work, it was that CCP made mistakes which forced it into being a completely separate game. This is despite constant protests from the community. Things like PS3 exclusive or skirmish 2.0 turned the game from what should have been an awesome FPS w/meta game into a lobby shooter which lacked all of the best qualities of most lobby shooters. Now unfortunately they've given up on all of the great meta stuff to make a good lobby shooter. That is the real tragedy. Tao Dolcino wrote: Except that a lot of people don't have a VR equipment, don't want to buy one, and don't want to use one. It's whole different thing to sit quietly at the pc with a keyboard and a mouse or to use this kind of equipment. Things are not automatically better just because they are new. Gadgets don't make a game deeper. I believe you are confused. Nova has not been touted as VR unless I am mistaken. Was there an article I missed because the last news I heard on Nova was just a PC shooter no VR or any accoutrements.
Arkoth 24 Phayder 221	Posted - 2016.08.10 12:00:07 - [86] - Quote If Nova will ever come out from development, the only way for it to be successful is to be not "another shooter". 'Cause there are a lot of shooters already, and Nova can't match 'em all. Let's take Planetside 2 with it's large open maps and a lot of vehicles and aircrafts. What Nova will be able to give in comparison? A CCP label? An EvE trademark? In the other hand, making FPS connected to EvE not by label only may be something what was never made before, and people would like it. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 542	Posted - 2016.08.10 21:37:18 - [87] - Quote No, the F/T Person shooter needs to be much more like a Space Western/Kinghts, ala, Firefly/Serenity, Honor Harrington or BSG ground stuff. Stations need to be scary places with security that's tied to their space security status. Going planetside means there are 'stations' planetside as well as PI stuff. Have military engagements to take down PI installations like out of StarCraft, not via FPS. Let the DUST orbital bombardment tactics mesh with an active Strategic game instead of a shooter. Then you can have EVE proper entities engage in both offense and defense of space above an active warzone. There is massive stuff that could be done with what exists RIGHT NOW. I know CCP is aware of this. I think they are a little gun shy after so many marginal products after EVE. I think that might be able to be mitigated if they actually engaged us, the player base, rather than guess as what we might like. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14364	Posted - 2016.08.11 10:18:53 - [88] - Quote Quote: I think that might be able to be mitigated if they actually engaged us, the player base, rather than guess as what we might like. I think its completely obvious for DEVS what we want, but I wonder how much of that cant be even touched because they are like programmin in PYTHON, with hands tied behind their backs by lack of any creative tools and someone who know how it works and tells them it will all fall apart when they will push it for more code. But nothing can explain the new scanner mess with overly bright prob bubbles and hidden underneath them signature dots. I liked how they overhauled Industry UI, already waiting for them to overhaul PI in such way. WIS if it would be considered would be on the last page of their internal development programme I am afraid. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Algarion Getz Aideron Corp 191	Posted - 2016.08.11 11:56:02 - [89] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP are already building a PC shooter ... with no connection to the EVE universe. Its a separate game. CCP doesnt want success for their FPS games. First they made Dust 514 exclusive for the outdated PS3, (shortly before the new console generation was released) and now they think they will be successful with making the 123,923,393th standard FPS game on PC. They are again wasting millions of EVE's revenues.
Ramona Taggart Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.08.11 14:00:21 - [90] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: And yet EVE is still here and most of that list is defunct. Fortunately for us, those that are left seem to be as "Dying" as EVE. Hmm.

Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 544	Posted - 2016.08.11 15:25:23 - [91] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: I think its completely obvious for DEVS what we want, but I wonder how much of that cant be even touched because they are like programmin in PYTHON, with hands tied behind their backs by lack of any creative tools and someone who know how it works and tells them it will all fall apart when they will push it for more code. But nothing can explain the new scanner mess with overly bright prob bubbles and hidden underneath them signature dots. Overhauls. I liked how they overhauled Industry UI, already waiting for them to overhaul PI in such way. There are even more things, WIS if it would be considered would be on the last page of their internal development programme I am afraid. I'd be surprised if their server side code was in Python. I could see the code on our clients done that way but server side should be something more normal like C Sharp or something faster. I haven't dug into how the code is done, but it seems to be quick enough. I'm also not sold on the idea that they hear us enough. They actually have several 'buffers' between the normal player base and themselves (most Devs do this for reasons of sanity). IF the CSM was doing it's job properly, then yes, the Devs would be hearing us well enough. However, after reading the minutes of the meeting with the Devs, it seems like the CSM do a good job of representing themselves and their views or their factions views but fail to represent everyone's views. I can't blame them either, that's a hard job and for most people it would make being a CSM rep not worth it. So, just from my observations, there seems to be a kind of tone deafness that exists with the Devs and with the products they choose to pursue. The new FPS is an example. They seem to be trying to undo the mistakes of DUST and stick with conventional FPS wisdom. It might have some success but it will also just be an "also ran". I would never commit to coding into an environment where it's almost impossible to shine. Going up against Halo, CoD and various other FPS's (MMO or not) just doesn't scream success to me. Doing that with a hard integration with EVE would set it apart from all those others and make EVE attractive to a whole new group of players. Is there a risk of failure? Sure, but it's at least the same as the risk of failure trying to compete separately. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2016.08.11 16:12:01 - [92] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: So, just from my observations, there seems to be a kind of tone deafness that exists with the Devs and with the products they choose to pursue. The new FPS is an example. They seem to be trying to undo the mistakes of DUST and stick with conventional FPS wisdom. It might have some success but it will also just be an "also ran". I would never commit to coding into an environment where it's almost impossible to shine. Going up against Halo, CoD and various other FPS's (MMO or not) just doesn't scream success to me. Doing that with a hard integration with EVE would set it apart from all those others and make EVE attractive to a whole new group of players. Is there a risk of failure? Sure, but it's at least the same as the risk of failure trying to compete separately. Precisely! All the more reason to consider tying the shooter aspects into WiS. I will admit it may not be the best way from both a technological standpoint as well as a separate identity, I just don't know. But it would likely be the simplest way to achieve a melding of the two play styles. I mean for crying out loud lets not ever get hung up on the FPS part of it. If you really wanted to you could justify a MechWarrior style game. I'm not advocating that I am merely pointing out that the shooter aspect need not be limited to First Person. Find what would work best with Eve both stylistically and technically and go with it. If that means WiS turns into something Mass Effect like so be it, throw some bad dancing and slow elevators in there and you got yourself some content!
Rain6637 NulzSec 34112	Posted - 2016.08.11 17:54:01 - [93] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations what about walking in space then? **** that would be kind of awesome but totally frivolous ~~just like WiS~~ Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14408	Posted - 2016.08.11 18:13:00 - [94] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations what about walking in space then? **** that would be kind of awesome but totally frivolous ~~just like WiS~~ EVA explorations is and was the ONLY iteration of WiS that would have made sense for EVE. Even I was excited by the idea, but it was unworkable and had to die. They didn't say as much, but I think they finally realized the limits of what you can tack onto EVE and make it all work. It's a much better idea to do separate products to cater to separate people, even if some people won't like it. Nova is the future of leg based EVE related gameplay and here's hoping they keep it separate from EVE itself. Eventually I'd like to see CCP add some kind of atmospheric flight to Valkyrie, which would be the spiritual success of another failed feature .
Rain6637 NulzSec 34112	Posted - 2016.08.11 19:35:48 - [95] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Lan Wang wrote: yes we need more excuses to stay docked in stations what about walking in space then? **** that would be kind of awesome but totally frivolous ~~just like WiS~~ EVA explorations is and was the ONLY iteration of WiS that would have made sense for EVE. Even I was excited by the idea, but it was unworkable and had to die. They didn't say as much, but I think they finally realized the limits of what you can tack onto EVE and make it all work. It's a much better idea to do separate products to cater to separate people, even if some people won't like it. Nova is the future of leg based EVE related gameplay and here's hoping they keep it separate from EVE itself. Eventually I'd like to see CCP add some kind of atmospheric flight to Valkyrie, which would be the spiritual success of another failed feature . whoa was that a radial menu Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14391	Posted - 2016.08.11 21:17:02 - [96] - Quote Looks like yes, it was! They actually had it in this demo, years before they added it to the game. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 545	Posted - 2016.08.11 22:18:17 - [97] - Quote I have no idea how I'm ending up opposite Jenn all the time now, normally I'm right there with her... SWTOR showed it was 'possible' to combine T/F PS, starship combat and dogfight/fighter combat. Yes, they have to be separated by server and a mechanism but they can exist in the same game. Now SWTOR made a lot of mistakes with it's implementation and offering, but it still showed it was possible. EVE could easily exist across a T/F PS, RTS and spaceship MMO universe. Lets try a little imagination, maybe think of it as an 'ad' for the game. You're flying along in your blingy starship when a small gang of frigates and destroyers way more powerful than yours traps and pins you down. They demand ISK, they demand goods. Not wanting to lose your ship, you give in... they blow you to space plasma anyway. Your clone comes back and you start hunting them down, not only in the stars, by in their stations. You walk up to a seedy bar where one of them is engaged in a conversation with another capsuleer across the table. They don't recognize you, you're just another punk capsuleer in wasted space. You draw your weapon and blow their grey matter all over the back wall, another one down. Sure the authorities question you, and you show them your Kill Right on the capsuleer, they pat you on the back and say "Good Shot" then let you pay your 1,000 ISK bill to the bar for the clean up of the mess. You know of a planet where another one keeps all his industry at. You launch your forces into a landing on the planet and start assaulting the industrial bases, reducing his extractors, warehouses, launchpads and command posts to rubble. Hurt them in the pocketbook. Then you retire back to your reincarnated blingy starship with a new found respect for the lack of honesty among pirates and will go down fighting looking forward to your revenge... EVE, where you don't get mad, you get even. It works in theory, but Jenn could be correct in that the implementation might be beyond CCP's abilities. So, I think it's possible but the political will to make it happen would be something entirely different. A good book that has a lot of these elements built into it is by David Weber: Field of Dishonor and the entire Honor Harrington series is a good template fit for EVE and what the various levels it could operate on could look like and how they'd interact. Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26585	Posted - 2016.08.11 22:32:54 - [98] - Quote ^^ +1 just for the Honorverse reference. The books manage to combine a lot of naval heritage and historical tactics into a scifi setting, which isn't surprising when you consider David Weber is a military history buff. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Vortexo VonBrenner Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning 2406	Posted - 2016.08.11 22:35:51 - [99] - Quote WiS will happen whether anybody wants it or not. shrug The question is will ccp faceplant hard on it worse than they did before. If EvE is ever killed it will be suicide. EvE security zones in pictures EvE quick reference pdf A wise man sums up EvE Smoke me a Kipper...
Hal Morsh Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem 536	Posted - 2016.08.11 22:38:59 - [100] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! You just described every single FPS. Sometimes you can be even blown up with proximity explosives. Ever seen tribes ascend. You land a mortar on someone and they will fly into smoking pieces. Omar Alharazaad > Pretty much any time you blow something up in space it's bound to annoy someone or something.

Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 43	Posted - 2016.08.12 01:18:14 - [101] - Quote I may get flamed for it, but I used to be heavily into Sims 2. Even if there is no real game play, I would spend billions and billions to play the doll house in space. :p I think there is a potential there. See how many people bought SOE combat suits for their toons. Customisable Captain's quarter, ability to decorate & modify the interiors & buy/place new stuff, some nice clothes with real varieties to suit all tastes, more gestures & animations, etc, etc. Well this may not be what most people would consider as EVE, and it's a totally different game play and I already admit this is nothing more than a 'doll house in space'. But the ISK sinks for this will be substantial I believe. Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697 Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
Arkoth 24 Phayder 227	Posted - 2016.08.12 08:27:10 - [102] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: SWTOR showed it was 'possible' to combine T/F PS, starship combat and dogfight/fighter combat. Yes, they have to be separated by server and a mechanism but they can exist in the same game. Now SWTOR made a lot of mistakes with it's implementation and offering, but it still showed it was possible. As i said before already, STO showes it too. You can fight in space in your ship, you can get FPS-like missions on planets and stations, or you can just visit a bar, a garden, or a lecture. All of those may run on different servers and different engines, it's different games in whole, but for player it's still the one game, where he can switch from one activity to another. It would be better then just make another dull stand-alone FPS - we had DUST already, and now it's dead. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 552	Posted - 2016.08.12 16:32:58 - [103] - Quote I don't have issues with any of the Sim games or other 'database' driven games like the flash ones of Farmville, etc. My spouse is addicted to those things and I have to fight for computer time to play EVE, SWTOR and WoW (I have subscriptions to all 3). EVE is driven by databases as are all MMO's, it's the nature of the beast. None of this means that EVE can't learn and grow from other games as well as invention within it's own ranks. I've said this before but I have experience in creating Internet games and balancing very tough game decisions. What I learned there taught me that the more open you keep your mind, the better off the game is. When you hear a good idea, jump on it and hold it up as such. The corollary to that is, if you have a good idea, don't be so married to it that you can't see others change it and turn it into something better. The idea that EVE has to stay the same way all the time is an idea that will kill the game. I think it's fine to take something and add it on to try it out and see how it plays. If everyone hates it, you change it or dump it, and move on. The trick is, you keep everyone informed and in the know. Pay attention to how the idea is taken in the forums, on Reddit, or other media forms. You can modify it if someone sees something you didn't. All of that is good design and interaction. The opposite is keeping quiet and suddenly springing something on your player base and then staying so married to it that it becomes part of the game. The entire watchlist debacle demonstrates what happens when you take something away without putting something back in it's place that solves the reason why it was taken away! Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game -- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
Noroswen The Scope Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2016.08.12 18:21:46 - [104] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: The idea that EVE has to stay the same way all the time is an idea that will kill the game. It's also not true. As I have mentioned several times Eve today is not Eve from 2009, or Eve from 2003.
Toobo Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium 46	Posted - 2016.08.13 04:23:17 - [105] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: I The trick is, you keep everyone informed and in the know. Pay attention to how the idea is taken in the forums, on Reddit, or other media forms. You can modify it if someone sees something you didn't. All of that is good design and interaction. The opposite is keeping quiet and suddenly springing something on your player base and then staying so married to it that it becomes part of the game.! I like lots of things you said, but I don't like the idea about needing to follow eve stuff on reddit and twitter or whatever to keep up to date with what CCP is doing. Sure I accept them as good coomunication playform for player driven stuff, but when I see some eve development relates stuff on reddit before I see it in the forums or dev blog, I don't like it :p To each to their own, but I prefer to see eve stuff on eve forums... Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697 Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
Jaxon Grylls Institute of Archaeology 113	Posted - 2016.08.13 10:59:36 - [106] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: ...there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing". What colour do you want then? Could you have meant "dying" or "dieing" ?
Arkoth 24 Phayder 241	Posted - 2016.08.16 08:01:04 - [107] - Quote Jaxon Grylls wrote: Arkoth 24 wrote: ...there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing". What colour do you want then? Could you have meant "dying" or "dieing" ? "EvE dyeing" is a catchphrase. Let's respect the tradition. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 14467	Posted - 2016.08.16 11:35:12 - [108] - Quote From this site you can see that some work was outsourced, I suppose its about outsourcing it to the Atlanta WoD team as described in this article. The team that was fired after few years after Incarna expansion and WoD cancelation. They would need to add more people to company in the first place, like in my post. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
Goatman NotMyFault Lubrication Industries Band of Boogers 244	Posted - 2016.08.16 22:34:34 - [109] - Quote EVE died because CCP didnt dare to keep developing WiS after the Incarna screwup. WiS will never come, cuz CCP has given up on keep in EVE alive. They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income. The time of EVE has passed.....
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 56088	Posted - 2016.08.17 05:10:50 - [110] - Quote I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside. Back in 2011 and 2012 there were a lot of different threads posted about WiS Avatar game content which usually turned into a forum war and got locked due to debates between pro and anti WiS players. However those threads contained various ideas for Avatar WiS game content as well as Avatar Exploration content so CCP has no shortage of ideas. CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones. Seeing how the community couldn't agree on the topic and due to the 2011 Summer Of Rage as well as problems with data programming, in my opinion CCP became gun shy about issuing any kind of statement pertaining to working on WiS Avatar game content. Even though they said the idea was shelved, as far as we know they could still be working on it now. All of this was back when CCP was releasing DUST 514 (First Person Shooter) on Ps3 Console while working on World Of Darkness (Third Person Avatar Game) project. Currently both of those are now classified as failed, one due to picking the wrong medium for market and the other due to poor programming causing inability of game interaction. I only hope CCP learned from their mistakes on those projects. Now it seems to me in order to have the experience of Eve being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe, players have to sub to various game aspects of Eve Online. That in my opinion is the main problem. Everything should be locked and tied together with Eve Online and each aspect of game play content, both in space and planetside, should be accessed through the Captains Quarters. Hopefully one day that becomes a reality. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle

Arkoth 24 Phayder 242	Posted - 2016.08.17 07:57:14 - [111] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside. This. The solid universe is better than separated game aspects like spaceships navigation, dogfighting and ground assault in any way. DeMichael Crimson wrote: CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones. The current mechanics of security levels is proved to be successful, so, for my opinion, there's no need to look for something else. While walking-in-station areas may be restricted for any kind of agression and used for people interaction, trading and resting only (HiSec level), planetary and exploration areas may be free-for-all and be entered for one's own risk. Evelopedia via Wayback Machine \| Open petition against Evelopedia closure
Slade Wilsson The Raza. Red Dream Citizens 0	Posted - 2016.08.21 00:22:42 - [112] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5XOOpjyC5w We wanna WIS!
Khergit Deserters Crom's Angels 4614	Posted - 2016.08.21 14:51:59 - [113] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: I love the idea of Eve Online being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. The only way for that to happen is for CCP to add Avatar Game play content for both in space and planetside. Back in 2011 and 2012 there were a lot of different threads posted about WiS Avatar game content which usually turned into a forum war and got locked due to debates between pro and anti WiS players. However those threads contained various ideas for Avatar WiS game content as well as Avatar Exploration content so CCP has no shortage of ideas. CCP did indeed listen but the main problem was nobody could agree on the specifics pertaining to it. Some players wanted all locations to be a 'shoot em up free for all action' while others wanted the content to follow existing game mechanics pertaining to system security levels (High, Low and Null Sec). Some players not only wanted the ability to kill other Avatars, they also wanted the ability to steal and or destroy personal assets as well, including jump clones. Seeing how the community couldn't agree on the topic and due to the 2011 Summer Of Rage as well as problems with data programming, in my opinion CCP became gun shy about issuing any kind of statement pertaining to working on WiS Avatar game content. Even though they said the idea was shelved, as far as we know they could still be working on it now. All of this was back when CCP was releasing DUST 514 (First Person Shooter) on Ps3 Console while working on World Of Darkness (Third Person Avatar Game) project. Currently both of those are now classified as failed, one due to picking the wrong medium for market and the other due to poor programming causing inability of game interaction. I only hope CCP learned from their mistakes on those projects. Now it seems to me in order to have the experience of Eve being a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe, players have to sub to various game aspects of Eve Online. That in my opinion is the main problem. Everything should be locked and tied together with Eve Online and each aspect of game play content, both in space and planetside, should be accessed through the Captains Quarters. Hopefully one day that becomes a reality. DMC Good condensed summary of the history, and good points raised as well. Start the bubble machine! -Lawrence Welk
Tokyo Drifter School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 20	Posted - 2016.08.21 23:46:27 - [114] - Quote Goatman NotMyFault wrote: They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income. The time of EVE has passed..... I don't support "WIS" and I wouldn't get any use for a "Barbie in space" update but I do understand the frustration of hisec players content wise. I just want to point out that the devs behave the same way toward everyone. The most eager EvE players aren't happy about most of the changes either (Fozzie Sov, nullsec income barely better than Incursion, nerf to ratting etc). If this **** stays like that a large portion of the so called fanatics will continue to stop playing all together instead of just unsubbing alts.
Goatman NotMyFault Lubrication Industries Band of Boogers 252	Posted - 2016.08.22 00:00:18 - [115] - Quote Tokyo Drifter wrote: Goatman NotMyFault wrote: They only some work to keep the most eager and fanatic EVE players happy... which gives some Subscriptions Income. The time of EVE has passed..... I don't support "WIS" and I wouldn't get any use for a "Barbie in space" update but I do understand the frustration of hisec players content wise. I just want to point out that the devs behave the same way toward everyone. The most eager EvE players aren't happy about most of the changes either (Fozzie Sov, nullsec income barely better than Incursion, nerf to ratting etc). If this **** stays like that a large portion of the so called fanatics will continue to stop playing all together instead of just unsubbing alts. Wis would attract alot of New players and give EVE additional alternative content. The current problem is too little content and a very narrow and specialiced path of content, slowly driving away more and more players. CCP screwed it up so many times in different ways, so i truly belive that EVE will just keep shrinking and be left With a small bunch of old players that refuses to leave EVE because they feel they cant loose all the assests and time they have invested in EVE. And yes, ure right, the most eager players HATE changes cuz it threathen their style of play.
Arnogh Weristrighis Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.11.17 03:25:06 - [116] - Quote Hello. While I may be new to the game and only be able to play it because it went free (my financial situation doesn't let me pay for sub of anything, even Spotify, Netflix or some Twitch guy I enjoy), but I think WIS would greatly benefit the game, even if it'd be social aspect only, at least at first (i.e. no combat "out of ship"). To the people who says that they can't possibly do this, because their side projects failed, well, they've already did. Kinda. It's called captain's quarters. It works reasonably well, the only thing they would need to add is ability to run and jump because the walk speed is just awful. Then they need to do "station level" and make it possible to meet other players there, i.e. just expanding the foundations that are already in the game. Normally, as a programmer and a game developer myself, I'd probably scoff at "oh, just add multiplayer to this and make other people show up"... if Eve was a singleplayer game. But it being a multiplayer game, and single-server, persistent MMO world, no less (a feat that no other MMO doubled, unless I don't know of one that did it as well), means they already have most of netcode written, all they'd need would be just to reuse and adapt it for WIS. Yes, it would take time, but compared to other stuff they have to do in order to just keep the game running (professional assessment by the way, tried to write several multiplayer, just multiplayer, like 2-4 people, games and netcode always prevented me from doing anything but hot seats, it's that hard), not to mention make new content and updates, it would be peanuts by comparison, since basic WIS engine (captain's quarters) is already done and most netcode, if they're writing it in a modular way with good methodologies, and given the fact the game hasn't yet spontaneously combusted, they do, can be reused. Heck, they could probably refit some netcode from DUST.
Flamespar WarRavens Imperium Eden 1356	Posted - 2016.11.17 06:53:30 - [117] - Quote Personally I'd prefer Nova to be incorporated into EVE. Given that both games are free to play now, and we have the new downloading system. Players can play the part of EVE they want (FPS or space) and only download that part (or both) EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3443	Posted - 2016.11.17 11:08:56 - [118] - Quote Because nothing says 'Science Fiction' quite like trying on clothes and walking around. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3695	Posted - 2016.11.17 11:20:24 - [119] - Quote Arnogh Weristrighis wrote: well, they've already did. Kinda. It's called captain's quarters. It works reasonably well, the only thing they would need to add is ability to run and jump because the walk speed is just awful. no its terrible really Alliance Logo Design Service -- Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 728	Posted - 2016.11.17 11:39:49 - [120] - Quote Toobo wrote: I may get flamed for it, but I used to be heavily into Sims 2. Even if there is no real game play, I would spend billions and billions to play the doll house in space. :p I think there is a potential there. See how many people bought SOE combat suits for their toons. Customisable Captain's quarter, ability to decorate & modify the interiors & buy/place new stuff, some nice clothes with real varieties to suit all tastes, more gestures & animations, etc, etc. Well this may not be what most people would consider as EVE, and it's a totally different game play and I already admit this is nothing more than a 'doll house in space'. But the ISK sinks for this will be substantial I believe. I've got hundreds of hours on Sims 3. Would be awesome I agree. @lunettelulu7

mkint 1228	Posted - 2016.11.17 12:54:02 - [121] - Quote I go the other way. With ANY wis, it means they are basically supporting 2 completely separate games with the associated costs of doing so, one of which they have basically no experience with as a company and make basically zero dollars off of. Remove the space barbie that's there altogether. It's basically un salvageable. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3443	Posted - 2016.11.17 13:03:37 - [122] - Quote mkint wrote: I go the other way. With ANY wis, it means they are basically supporting 2 completely separate games with the associated costs of doing so, one of which they have basically no experience with as a company and make basically zero dollars off of. Remove the space barbie that's there altogether. It's basically un salvageable. Pretty much. The reasons CCP had for working on WiS were 1) a test engine for WoD and 2) a microtransaction catwalk to show off your shoes and monocles. Both are now irrelevant since WoD was scrapped and ship skins took priority over the clothing store. There's no business case for CCP to justify spending millions of dollars creating WiS. Please let the corpse of the deceased rest in peace. Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 19788	Posted - 2016.11.17 15:08:17 - [123] - Quote Its alive! Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 729	Posted - 2016.11.17 18:12:10 - [124] - Quote With all the hours you guys spend waiting for an FC tell you when to undock I would think you'd want something to do other than a ship spin counter lol. Eve is really missing out. @lunettelulu7
DaReaper Net 7 Cannon.Fodder 2900	Posted - 2016.11.17 20:10:17 - [125] - Quote I want Ambulation, not incarnia. CCP's first attempt at walking in stations was actually pretty great, but they scrapped it. As said above, there is not much of a business reason right now for WiS, so its most likely not going to happen. But still i wish it would OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 57275	Posted - 2016.11.17 22:34:12 - [126] - Quote DaReaper wrote: I want Ambulation, not incarnia. CCP's first attempt at walking in stations was actually pretty great, but they scrapped it. As said above, there is not much of a business reason right now for WiS, so its most likely not going to happen. But still i wish it would Aww come on man, not much of a business reason right now ? When a business offers more variety with available options, that always brings in more customers. Now granted those customers may show up just for one specific thing but after a while they'll usually try out some of the other options as well. More Options = More Customers = More Money DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
John WarpingSlow 111	Posted - 2016.11.17 23:15:45 - [127] - Quote DaReaper wrote: I want Ambulation, not incarnia. CCP's first attempt at walking in stations was actually pretty great, but they scrapped it. If I recall correctly, most of WiS was done up in the previous graphics engine before Carbon, and would need much effort to bring it forward to today's standards. Read up on the "Summer of Rage" and you'll get an idea why this is... unlikely. If you're really curious to see what might have been, there's a Fanfest 2008 presentation by Torfi Olafsson (currently Creative Director for CCP, but at the time he was the Senior Producer) on YouTube: Walking in Stations Here's some interesting time markers: Leaving the captain's quarters and heading for the promenade: 33:30 "The Door" really was intended to open. Shops in installable sockets: 37:00 The bar & bartender: 38:40 The dancer: 40:30 Minigames (Table games) including "SecWars": 43:25 (This would have been an opportunity to have actual in-game betting between players, controlled by the gaming engine)
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 96	Posted - 2016.11.17 23:40:30 - [128] - Quote John WarpingSlow wrote: DaReaper wrote: I want Ambulation, not incarnia. CCP's first attempt at walking in stations was actually pretty great, but they scrapped it. If I recall correctly, most of WiS was done up in the previous graphics engine before Carbon, and would need much effort to bring it forward to today's standards. Read up on the "Summer of Rage" and you'll get an idea why this is... unlikely. If you're really curious to see what might have been, there's a Fanfest 2008 presentation by Torfi Olafsson (currently Creative Director for CCP, but at the time he was the Senior Producer) on YouTube: Walking in Stations Here's some interesting time markers: Leaving the captain's quarters and heading for the promenade: 33:30 "The Door" really was intended to open. Shops in installable sockets: 37:00 The bar & bartender: 38:40 The dancer: 40:30 Minigames (Table games) including "SecWars": 43:25 (This would have been an opportunity to have actual in-game betting between players, controlled by the gaming engine) The summer of rage was about 2 things. The greed is good Nex store and them wasting development time and money on WiS All in all it accomplished nothing other than lowering subscription numbers. After all they stopped WiS and made Dust 514 (and keep building crap for the outskirts of this game) and we have the NES store instead of a NEX store.
John WarpingSlow 111	Posted - 2016.11.18 00:15:18 - [129] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: The summer of rage was about 2 things. Those two things were definitely part of it, and then we had these "gems" as well: - Graphic card meltdowns - Crashing clients - Crashing servers and serious downtime - Users with relatively new machines/graphic cards being told: "Those don't meet our new minimum standards, upgrade." (Hooboy, I'll be that was real popular at the time.) Any one or two of these issues would have been difficult, but manageable. All of them together? 50% of the customer base revolted and left. Painful, but at least CCP got a wake up call that they needed. We got the Hilmar apology+promise to listen and do better, the customer base that was left responded positively, and that's pretty much the point you could see that WiS's goose was cooked and it was extremely unlikely that it would ever see development resources again. Pity about that, as the video I linked showed, there were some interesting ideas in there. Ah well, water under the bridge at this point. A lot of people still enjoy EVE. In order to continue doing so, CCP must successfully strike a balance between core product development and their R&D on their side projects. Here's hoping they do.
Arnogh Weristrighis Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.11.18 01:09:54 - [130] - Quote John WarpingSlow wrote: [quote=DaReaper]If I recall correctly, most of WiS was done up in the previous graphics engine before Carbon, and would need much effort to bring it forward to today's standards. Only COD kids care about graphics nowadays. The models can be improved over time after WIS would be released.

Steffles University of Caille Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2016.11.18 01:29:54 - [131] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Whats funny and sad is that people acknowledge that CCP has only really done one thing well (spaceships) while at the exact same time saying that CCP needs to add walking around to the game, despite the fact that it's been tried and abandoned. What makes them think CCP would do better this time? EVE is an old game, tacking new crap on has never worked, even seemingly simple stuff like Citadels seemed to have stretched them. Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
Steffles University of Caille Gallente Federation 48	Posted - 2016.11.18 01:35:48 - [132] - Quote John WarpingSlow wrote: Read up on the "Summer of Rage" and you'll get an idea why this is... unlikely Please stop the "Summer of Rage" garbage. Its embarassing. There was no "Summer of Rage". There were a bunch of nerds shooting an indestructible monument and some people unsubscribed because of microtransanctions. Goons and CSM (pretty much the same people) took advantage of the microtransactions fallout to push their agenda for non WIS which they had been pushing for many months solely because Goons wanted more attention to be paid to what they wanted. End of Story. Summer of Nerdy Goon Whinage is more accurate. Hey CPP - Time we put highsec back to how it was originally designed - http://i.imgur.com/GT0T0oS.jpg
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 57279	Posted - 2016.11.18 05:45:14 - [133] - Quote Steffles wrote: John WarpingSlow wrote: Read up on the "Summer of Rage" and you'll get an idea why this is... unlikely Please stop the "Summer of Rage" garbage. Its embarassing. There was no "Summer of Rage". There were a bunch of nerds shooting an indestructible monument and some people unsubscribed because of microtransanctions. Goons and CSM (pretty much the same people) took advantage of the microtransactions fallout to push their agenda for non WIS which they had been pushing for many months solely because Goons wanted more attention to be paid to what they wanted. End of Story. Summer of Nerdy Goon Whinage is more accurate. The Incarna Expansion of 2011 failed to deliver the WiS (Walking In Stations) that was promised years ago in 2006 known as Ambulation. The Incarna Expansion basically became the catalyst which, when combined with resulting events after deployment and previous in-game problems, ended up being 'The straw that broke the Camel's back' prompting player outrage and mass un-subs which quickly became known as 'The Summer Of Rage'.. Despite what some players may say, WiS was not the reason for 'The Summer Of Rage'. There's a lot of other issues that contributed to it which I've listed here in no particular order. 1. CCP ignoring 'The 1001 Papercuts' thread - large list of broken game mechanics and unfinished content since 2003. 2. Numerous expansions constantly being rushed out half finished, untested and bugged breaking existing content. 3. CCP introducing NEX Store and MT - selling overpriced items for real money bypassing player market and production. 4. Threat of 'Gold Ammo' and 'Gold Ships' enabling 'Pay to Win' exploitation. 5. CCP dividing their development resources to work on 3 different projects at the same time. 6. The 'Fearless Newsletter' leaked memo - Greed is good. 7. CCP statement of Eve Online being viewed as the Golden Goose. 8. 3rd party Developers being demanded to pay real money to CCP for providing free Eve Online applications to players. 9. CCP failure to keep and maintain their promise of 'Commitment to Excellence'. 10. Showing players 'The Door' and removing player option of choice, forcing player participation in Captains Quarters. 11. CCP attempting to diffuse the situation with excessive thread locking and banned accounts. 12. Lack of communication from CCP resulting in poor Public Relations due to ignoring the player base. 13. Releasing poorly written un-optimized code in a major expansion resulting in various client side issues. 14. Hilmar's statement - "Watch what they do, not what they say." Basically Hilmar's statement became the rally cry for the mass un-subs. Those un-subs combined with a large loan payment being due resulted in CCP downsizing their company and placing the other projects on the back burner in order to refocus resources on fixing various issues in Eve. A couple of expansions after Incarna (mostly 'Fix-it' patches), CCP once again tried revisiting WIS / Avatar Ambulation intending to incorporate it into exploration. Even though there were a lot of ideas presented to CCP to turn it into meaningful game content, the player base got into a rage war and couldn't agree on the basic game mechanics governing Avatar game content. Since 'The Summer Of Rage' was still a sore subject, CCP ended up dropping the project ..... again. In my opinion I believe CCP became 'Gun Shy' and didn't want another episode of Incarna events to happen. Anyway, hopefully CCP will revisit WIS / Avatar Ambulation in the future. I don't expect it to be anytime soon, at the very least it'll be a few years from now, probably be even longer. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Mark Marconi Ministry of War Amarr Empire 98	Posted - 2016.11.18 05:47:33 - [134] - Quote -Removed- My mistake.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 57279	Posted - 2016.11.18 05:51:49 - [135] - Quote Mark Marconi wrote: -Removed- My mistake. lol, I was just gonna say it's #6 on the list which is set up in no particular order. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 19880	Posted - 2016.11.18 07:40:26 - [136] - Quote Now is the time to expand universe. \o/ Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Vigirr 44	Posted - 2016.11.18 08:08:07 - [137] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: CCP are already building a PC shooter Let's face it: EvE is the only good thing CCP made. You may call it an accident. All other project were just a waste of money or even never came out from development like WoD. And now they are sitting on EvE unable or being too afraid to create anything else. DUST was closed. Gunjack? It's not even a game. Valkyrie? It would be just another DUST for small bunch of OR-users: launch, make some money, close. As 'bout WiS - there are too many freaks who will whine constantly 'bout "EvE dyeing" if CCP will even talk 'bout it one more time, so enjoy your Captain's Quarters. The mistake people make is that they see CCP as one entity, which it isn't. Through time you can distinguish 4 versions of CCP with different devs, motives and goals. > 1999 - 2007ish: CCP of old with Oveur and people who dared to be different, didn't do the carebear PC thing and who were very talented and creative. They made EVE, this is the CCP we remember and loved > 2007-2011: a CCP who doesn't care for EVE itself, they just want more subs so they can do other things. They were caretakers at best with horrible ideas. The one notable thing from that era is Apocrypha which was mostly done by an ex-player, in a remarkably short development time. The rest is all terrible and ultimately resulted in Incarnage, the summer of rage. This CCP was incapable of creating anything decent >2011-2014: the "oh crap" CCP where they realised that ignoring your customers and the goose that lays the golden eggs you buy your cocaine with isn't really good business sense. Lots of stuff got done but realistically it was CCP catching up and making up for lost dev time. They started working on Valkyrie but most of it had to be redone later anyway 2014- now: the Seagull era, more than a caretaker and dares to change stuff that cause short term problems but offers long term solutions. I might not always agree with the decisions as such but it's obvious this CCP has a vision and puts in lots of effort to make EVE a better game. This CCP might be able to create something new and get away with it
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 19887	Posted - 2016.11.18 08:20:07 - [138] - Quote I have seen that they always upgraded the game, but often left those upgrades in the form they delivered, not really caring about them later and only redoing them long after everyone seen how broken they can be, but left some things very rudimentary to this day, just like with PI or WIS. See in particular how much time we had to wait until they reworked FW, or Structures, or Industry. As if all this chase for more features left no time for iterations, and they had to prioritize in the long run. And those features requiring a lot of work were first to be dropped, and last to be iterated on later. =ƒòæ =ƒÆ¦=ƒôï=ƒôè And some features required a lot of backgrond work, not really visible in client. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Arnogh Weristrighis Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.11.18 13:46:01 - [139] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: As if all this chase for more features left no time for iterations, and they had to prioritize in the long run. And those features requiring a lot of work were first to be dropped, and last to be iterated on later. =ƒòæ =ƒÆ¦=ƒôï=ƒôè And some features required a lot of background work, not really visible in client until they delivered stuff working in new environment. Yeah, sounds like average gamedev for me. Though again, as I was saying, graphics don't need to be good at first, they can improve on them later. As for the code side, well since they've got that demo that someone else showed up in this thread, they could probably reuse that code with little modification to get the WIS up & running. Though about walking thing, they'd really need to add running and jumping, otherwise moving around stations would suck. I don't expect AssCreed-like parkour (would be fun though if they'd manage to do that, especially if they introduce ground combat), but just ability to run and jump over smaller obstacles. So yeah, it would be quite easy to adapt that old code and add WIS. Probably would take a month or two (dunno if their netcode and client/server internals changed between then and now and if so by how much), but compared to the things they have to do just to keep game running, it's peanuts.
mkint 1230	Posted - 2016.11.18 13:50:43 - [140] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: And some features required a lot of background work, not really visible in client until they delivered stuff working in new environment. This seems to be a running theme with CCP: "Oh, we're doing a massive upgrade to the NPC AI that will close the gap between PVE and PVP fits!" -come out with wormholes, the sleeper AI doesn't affect the vast majority of PVE "Oh, we're restructuring the mission system so we can have much more elaborate storylines in mission!" -puts out some epic arcs, only one of which sees any traffic as it's treated as part of the tutorials. "Oh, we're putting together a new mission and NPC authoring system so we can revamp missions and put out new content easier and faster" -absolutely nothing happens with any of this work. "New AI again" -incursions, mostly the same AI as sleepers but in highsec, abandoned after a few minor balance tweeks. "New AI again" "new AI again" And the majority of PVE is still done with the original AI in belts, anoms, and missions. What other systems have had the same story? An entire continent of fallow fields. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.

Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 19906	Posted - 2016.11.18 13:51:00 - [141] - Quote Jogging, jumping, shooting, doing stuff around. A lot of stuff. Actually thinking more about those things, and these thoughts are quickly starting to overwhelm my little, feeble mind. =ƒÿô Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 19906	Posted - 2016.11.18 13:54:33 - [142] - Quote mkint wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: And some features required a lot of background work, not really visible in client until they delivered stuff working in new environment. This seems to be a running theme with CCP: "Oh, we're doing a massive upgrade to the NPC AI that will close the gap between PVE and PVP fits!" -come out with wormholes, the sleeper AI doesn't affect the vast majority of PVE "Oh, we're restructuring the mission system so we can have much more elaborate storylines in mission!" -puts out some epic arcs, only one of which sees any traffic as it's treated as part of the tutorials. "Oh, we're putting together a new mission and NPC authoring system so we can revamp missions and put out new content easier and faster" -absolutely nothing happens with any of this work. "New AI again" -incursions, mostly the same AI as sleepers but in highsec, abandoned after a few minor balance tweeks. "New AI again" "new AI again" And the majority of PVE is still done with the original AI in belts, anoms, and missions. What other systems have had the same story? An entire continent of fallow fields. =ƒÿ¦ OMG you are right! Maybe they are still working on it, one code line a day. Then starting over from scratch when it doesnt work at all as expected. =ƒÿ¦ Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
mkint 1230	Posted - 2016.11.18 14:02:30 - [143] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: mkint wrote: Nana Skalski wrote: And some features required a lot of background work, not really visible in client until they delivered stuff working in new environment. This seems to be a running theme with CCP: "Oh, we're doing a massive upgrade to the NPC AI that will close the gap between PVE and PVP fits!" -come out with wormholes, the sleeper AI doesn't affect the vast majority of PVE "Oh, we're restructuring the mission system so we can have much more elaborate storylines in mission!" -puts out some epic arcs, only one of which sees any traffic as it's treated as part of the tutorials. "Oh, we're putting together a new mission and NPC authoring system so we can revamp missions and put out new content easier and faster" -absolutely nothing happens with any of this work. "New AI again" -incursions, mostly the same AI as sleepers but in highsec, abandoned after a few minor balance tweeks. "New AI again" "new AI again" And the majority of PVE is still done with the original AI in belts, anoms, and missions. What other systems have had the same story? An entire continent of fallow fields. =ƒÿ¦ OMG you are right! Maybe they are still working on it, one code line a day. Then starting over from scratch when it doesnt work at all as expected. =ƒÿ¦ that... that wasn't my point. My point is if they ever do another WIS, they'll probably do what they already almost did with WIS. Make a brand new system that has nothing to do with the old one, and leave the old one cluttering up all our hard drives, the new one basically inaccessible to basically everyone. They'd make a new citadel that costs 1,000X as much as the current biggest one, and make that the only place you can newWIS. It's the CCP Way. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.
Skydell Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 679	Posted - 2016.11.18 14:18:44 - [144] - Quote Arkoth 24 wrote: DUST was closed. I noticed 0 pilots in one of the new corp systems. That's kind of a bummer. I have 100,000 Marines I was hoping I could unleash on the little buggers one day.
Arnogh Weristrighis Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2016.11.18 20:26:56 - [145] - Quote mkint wrote: There's a reason why that old code was abandoned. There's a reason why the current implemented code was abandoned. And that reason was crying manbabies that thought this will destroy content that's already there. And compared to what they need to actually maintain game in a working condition and making other content, WIS is peanuts in comparison. Also, this game might as well not have any NPC enemies, since it's so heavily PVP focuses (if you're in EVE for PVE, you're doing it wrong). NPC mining/NPC frigates should stay in just so players have some heist opportunities, but IMO sleepers and other NPC enemies should be removed as they're easy to kill and easy to run away from. Yes, this is controversial, but really, if they can't make NPC challenging, they could just as well remove them completely and then give players some tools to take over systems, even in highsec and maintain their presence there, so fights would be actually challenging. Back to WIS, I think CCP would do well by bringing it back. If you don't like it, you just wouldn't use it and play the game as you always were. Meanwhile those who'd like it could get into it. I know a thing or two on how software get made. I've been deving since I was 10yo (now I'm 26), so based on my experience and given the size of CCP as a company and the fact that WIS content existed at one point (and probably is stowed away somewhere, perhaps even in the client itself, just made inaccessible), it would really take them one to two months to get WIS running again, mostly spent on adjusting old WIS code to current codebase so it would work (as most of graphical assets related to WIS are already made as shown in that video someone linked earlier). Nana Skalski wrote: Jogging, jumping, shooting, doing stuff around. A lot of stuff. Actually thinking more about those things, and these thoughts are quickly starting to overwhelm my little, feeble mind. =ƒÿô Well, I'd be fine if it would be just jogging and jumping. Those things are easy to code in a multiplayer context - running is just speed change and animation change and jumping is just movement on the Y axis ;). As for doing stuff around, they could add some casino games where you could bet and win ISK, perhaps some arcade games as well and billiard (pool most likely, though I'd love to see snooker as well). But things that aren't necessary for working WIS can be added in a future patch, which includes combat and more advanced in-station entertainment.
PopeUrban El Expedicion Flames of Exile 220	Posted - 2016.11.18 23:18:10 - [146] - Quote WiS will happen eventually. After the structure revamp, completion of the NPE revamp, whatever systems they are attaching to those player built stargates (new space with new mechanics of some sort) and after the release of legion/nova/whatever they call it these days. At that point they'll have updated first person assets, two games that are making money, and a reasonable framework to use it as an integration point between them. So, basically, don't hold your breath. They made a decision a while back to actually start finishing projects before working on new ones, and we have a pretty clear timeline for the currently planned projects.
Hal Morsh Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem 557	Posted - 2016.11.18 23:31:44 - [147] - Quote http://imgur.com/a/Ql3Jc Yes to WiS. Being sapient can drive us mad.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 45793	Posted - 2016.11.18 23:33:04 - [148] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: http://imgur.com/a/Ql3Jc Yes to WiS. Is that your butt Hal? You sexy man. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Khenza Vektara Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.11.19 13:07:20 - [149] - Quote I've long been a fan of the WiS concept and would love to see it implemented. EVE's character creation is top shelf and it's a pity that the end result is so underutilized. Even if just from a sociological standpoint, having a more fully formed avatar experience in game would add some interesting layers to the interaction that's pretty much limited to ship to ship combat. And then of course there's the whole revenue stream for CCP, as it's a proven fact (phenomenon?) that players tend to dump credits into habitat customization and personalization when there's actually something for their avatar to do. If nothing more, it'd be a fantastic experiment. I hear the roar of the big machine Two worlds and in between Hot metal and methedrine I hear your empire down
Bibosikus Air 208	Posted - 2016.11.19 13:51:55 - [150] - Quote WIS/fps + ccp = bad. it's simple math. *Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.*

Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 774	Posted - 2016.11.19 14:05:59 - [151] - Quote Even if it's just a bunch of different 'hangout' venues for our characters, or kind of like now how you can walk to your PI button or your fitting window; that's all it needs to be. (Maybe walk to a mission agent?) All you old money saying that WiS is bad and not good for Eve .. are you kidding me? Video games are more and more microtransaction based everyday. Especially now that we're free to play. Money on the table. @lunettelulu7
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 20030	Posted - 2016.11.19 15:06:36 - [152] - Quote Just add what SC citizens had to pay for with heavy cash when they have done kickstarter. Multiplayer. This. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
mkint 1233	Posted - 2016.11.19 16:32:43 - [153] - Quote Lulu Lunette wrote: Money on the table. Is this even true? Are there people out there who say "Gee, I sure hate internet spaceships, but I would pay for an internet spaceships game if they had a bigger captain's quarters."? Or I guess with a little less hyperbole, would this bring in enough new players, help retain current players that would otherwise leave, or bring back old players in enough numbers to financially justify the huge costs in building and maintaining this? Keep in mind, CCP had to fire 1/3 of it's employees when it turned out space barbie didn't work out, and that was how many employees it took to fail at it. The doubling of the company's workforce to do something like this right isn't a small investment. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 776	Posted - 2016.11.19 17:02:56 - [154] - Quote mkint wrote: Lulu Lunette wrote: Money on the table. Is this even true? Are there people out there who say "Gee, I sure hate internet spaceships, but I would pay for an internet spaceships game if they had a bigger captain's quarters."? Or I guess with a little less hyperbole, would this bring in enough new players, help retain current players that would otherwise leave, or bring back old players in enough numbers to financially justify the huge costs in building and maintaining this? Keep in mind, CCP had to fire 1/3 of it's employees when it turned out space barbie didn't work out, and that was how many employees it took to fail at it. The doubling of the company's workforce to do something like this right isn't a small investment. The first part of your argument makes hilariously no sense. The structure is mostly there, it's probably not that big a thing to add to it. Like how they add clothes. @lunettelulu7
Khenza Vektara Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2016.11.19 17:26:39 - [155] - Quote mkint wrote: Lulu Lunette wrote: Money on the table. Is this even true? Are there people out there who say "Gee, I sure hate internet spaceships, but I would pay for an internet spaceships game if they had a bigger captain's quarters."? Or I guess with a little less hyperbole, would this bring in enough new players, help retain current players that would otherwise leave, or bring back old players in enough numbers to financially justify the huge costs in building and maintaining this? Keep in mind, CCP had to fire 1/3 of it's employees when it turned out space barbie didn't work out, and that was how many employees it took to fail at it. The doubling of the company's workforce to do something like this right isn't a small investment. I'm guessing that a robust socially interactive in-game avatar WiS feature could bring in new players to a certain degree, especially those who only know EVE as "that spreadsheets in space game". It would certainly make EVE a fuller experience (and the lulz would be epic and non stop, considering it'd be like these forums but with avatar to avatar face time) but you do have a good point about the cost effective angle for CCP. I suppose time will tell... I hear the roar of the big machine Two worlds and in between Hot metal and methedrine... I hear your empire down
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 20033	Posted - 2016.11.19 17:27:33 - [156] - Quote The money is on the table, but the table is going apparently to another castle for now. Something like 140 M $ I evaluate. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Arnogh Weristrighis Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.11.20 13:42:05 - [157] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Just add what SC citizens had to pay for with heavy cash when they have done kickstarter. Multiplayer. This. I think it would be funny to see how those people who had to pay 10000$ react if someone would say them there is something like that in other game for free. :P Oh god... Would literally do anything to see those SC(ammed) people cry an ocean after learning about it. Let's face it, Star Citizen is never coming out, at least not for foreseeable future. It's basically modern Duke Nukem Forever. There are bunch of techdemos related to it, but that's all. Not actual game. Hell, even No Man's Sky is better than SC by virtue of NMS actually being released. And that's saying something.
Jade Blackwind 1208	Posted - 2016.11.20 14:04:44 - [158] - Quote The idea of WiS just refuses to die, doesn't it? A simple dead horse doesn't qualify in that case. It's apparently some sort of a really sturdy undead skeletal horse enchanted with blunt damage immunity, so no amount of bashing can bring it down for long. Well, F2P actually happened, so who knows, WiS also might one day.
Alessienne Ellecon Solitude Rangers 65	Posted - 2016.11.20 19:02:15 - [159] - Quote It won't die because a significant number of people really do want it back. I signed up after Incarna, and I want the stuff I missed. People talk about the Gallente pleasure hub and other things and if there's even a remote possibility of being able to go beyond the captain's quarters into a third-person Citadel environment, I'm all for it.
mkint 1234	Posted - 2016.11.20 23:41:58 - [160] - Quote Alessienne Ellecon wrote: It won't die because a significant number of people really do want it back. I signed up after Incarna, and I want the stuff I missed. People talk about the Gallente pleasure hub and other things and if there's even a remote possibility of being able to go beyond the captain's quarters into a third-person Citadel environment, I'm all for it. The pleasure hub was replaced by WIS. WIS is part of the reason it's gone. That was lost when they got a new artistic director and the visual style went from a unique eccentric and kinda funny playfulness, to soulless boring grimdark. "yay, we can finally wear leather jackets AND NOTHING ELSE." It used to be there were several different station hangars, Gallente being the one where pop culture would have lived. All the most interesting flavor was thrown in the trash to pave the way for WIS. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun.

Jade Blackwind 1210	Posted - 2016.11.21 00:42:42 - [161] - Quote mkint wrote: That was lost when they got a new artistic director and the visual style went from a unique eccentric and kinda funny playfulness, to soulless boring grimdark. Just for reference for the new people here, that's what we're talking about: Figure 1 Figure 2 Figure 3 etc. Oh, and think of the Achura! Achura alts were FOTM for a while at the time, so ... Achura . ...Different people, different tastes, I guess.
Another Posting Alt Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2016.11.21 00:56:09 - [162] - Quote Jade Blackwind wrote: Oh, and think of the Achura! Achura alts were FOTM for a while at the time, so ... That was mainly for the Minimal Charisma, back before you could set your own attribute map.
Lateris 63	Posted - 2016.11.21 01:00:50 - [163] - Quote To the original point. Of course we are going to leave the CQ's as an avatar at some point. 0/
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 519	Posted - 2016.11.21 05:23:48 - [164] - Quote Noroswen wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Awesome! Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! Warp through the wrong gate, Warp Bubble/ Ganked Podded Its not like you can't devise mechanics to minimize this without restricting it. so im confused, do you want to play a submarine simulator or a CoD clone? and no, you can only have 1. Just Add Water
Nana Skalski Taisaanat Kotei 20191	Posted - 2016.11.21 08:59:49 - [165] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Noroswen wrote: Solecist Project wrote: Awesome! Enter structure. BOOM HEADSHOT! You died. So exciting! Warp through the wrong gate, Warp Bubble/ Ganked Podded Its not like you can't devise mechanics to minimize this without restricting it. so im confused, do you want to play a submarine simulator or a CoD clone? and no, you can only have 1. These are your words. Game industry says you can have two, spaceships and interiors. Since Starflight and Space Rogue by Paul Neurath. Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò =ƒÜÇ Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him. GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
Steve Mittal The Deathjesters Moose Partners 1	Posted - 2016.11.21 11:14:47 - [166] - Quote Jade Blackwind wrote: mkint wrote: That was lost when they got a new artistic director and the visual style went from a unique eccentric and kinda funny playfulness, to soulless boring grimdark. Just for reference for the new people here, that's what we're talking about: Figure 1 Figure 2 Figure 3 etc. Oh, and think of the Achura! Achura alts were FOTM for a while at the time, so ... Achura . ...Different people, different tastes, I guess. It would be fine if they brought back the assets like the bandolier, the head/hair stuff for the amarr etc. Right now everyone is the same style of boring.


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