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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Duckeye
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Posted - 2007.03.15 12:19:00 -
[91]
What if you kept the effects of bumping the same but added limitations. Just make mass the primary factor that determines who moves when one ship bumps into another. It's a serious hassle to try to warp out of a busy dock in a freighter because all the stupid frigates get in the way, I'd rather just plow through them all and push them out of my way because I'm bigger lol. No damage, just a little nudge...
As for it's application to jacking up a ships warp process, if ccp could add a little bit of coding they could make it so that the only way to move a bigger ship off it's warp course is to ram/push against it with many smaller ships that equals greater mass as a collective than the target ship...this way, with the current state of ship masses, 10 battleships pushing against a dreadnought at the same time will keep it from lining up to warp off.
It may not be perfect but it's not as complicated as ramming damage and something like this is the only way I can see that will make both sides happy...of course with a bit of tweaking. With the nano's getting nerfed and the bigger ships becoming slower, as they should be, I think it's something that should be looked into.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.03.15 12:20:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: Gamesguy
Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/03/2007 23:00:21
Originally by: Erim Solfara
e=1/2mv^2
Carbonized lead shell, 1kg (from ID), velocity what? According to wikipedia, 1,800 m/s is about the limit with chemical propellants, but that's with air resistance.
So call it 3000m/s to be generous?
1/2 x 1 x 3000 x 3000
4,500,000J
Horribly flawed premise. The Schwerer Gustav was an rl 80cm(800mm) artillery piece that fired a shell weighted in at 7 tons, thats 7000kgs. Since mass increases exponentially with radius, doubling the radius will likely result in an 8 fold increase in mass. So the 1400mm probably fires a shell weighting 40000kgs.
Velcity is 250km/s, since thats how long it takes a projectile to travel that distance in eve.
In addition you got the math and the units wrong as well.
So the actual kinetic energy is 40000*(250000/2)^2=6.25*10^14J, or 156.25 megatons of tnt.
Quote:
battleship
107500000 kg (Apoc), 300m/s
1/2 x 107500000 x 300 x 300
4,837,500,000,000J
That said, a shell would have to travel at 1,555,233m/s to match the kinetic energy of the battleship travelling at a mere 300m/s.
That's over one and a half thousand kilometres a second...
actual math:
107500000*(300/2)^2=2.4*10^12j, less than 1/200th the energy of the 1400mm shell.
You should be considering the momentum not the kinetic energy of the two. Oh and you insist on using a 'more realistic' value for the mass of the shell and then go on to use an absurd mass for the ship (hint 2-3 orders of magnitude too small)...
If you use 40k Kg for the shell gives a momentum of 1xE10 kgms^-1. If you use a realistic mass for the Battleship (20M metric tonnes), at 300 m/sec gives momentum 600x that...
One more thing to consider, sure shields in Eve will be the point of contact in any collision, but ask yourself, what are they coupled to?... the nuts and bolts holding the generators to the hullà.
If they were to ever model collision damage in Eve, it would make more sense for it to be applied directly to the hull.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Xipe Totec
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:50:00 -
[93]
Good point. Any force applied to the shield will at some point or level of force apply shearing forces to the device thats projecting the shield.
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Qolde
Minmatar
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:26:00 -
[94]
I like the idea but i would implement it like this:
the physics of bumping would stay as they are now, except drones wouldnt be able to bump battleships or whatever.
damage would only occur if an AB or MWD were fitted.
Takes care of flagging, and the inevitable jita 4-4 traffic jam.
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Xipe Totec
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Posted - 2007.03.15 17:28:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Qolde
damage would only occur if an AB or MWD were fitted.
Not necessarily when fitted, but when active ...
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Podometer
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Posted - 2007.03.16 13:20:00 -
[96]
<bump>
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Verizana
The Kru
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Posted - 2007.03.16 13:25:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Esurnir
Heard that bumping will one day cause damage to ships (-someone- saw a video of a frig ramming a bc). But that's a silly rumor I heard, if -anybody- could confirm ?!
that was Evolution CG Graphic movie, nothing that will happen anytime in eve.
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Jon Hawkes
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.16 14:14:00 -
[98]
How else are we supposed to stop Titans warping..? 
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.03.16 14:27:00 -
[99]
bump
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein
Member of the [UTSFAH] corp.
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Xipe Totec
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Posted - 2007.03.16 15:07:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
How else are we supposed to stop Titans warping..?
Maybe you weren't supposed to be able to in the frist place. Hence my wondering about unintended gameplay ...
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.16 15:10:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Sever Aldaria on 16/03/2007 15:06:37
I heard that way back when eve was young, they did have collision damage. They removed it because it was such a nightmare. People would jump through a gate and get concordokened on the other side because they bumped the gate causing damage to it while jumping. Same thing with some stations. But, if you want to have collision damage while not making it a concordokenable action then it can be easily abused. For reality's sake, it might be nice. Practically though, it would be horrible.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Usagi Toshiro
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Posted - 2007.03.16 20:54:00 -
[102]
Maybe include "Dampening" rigs that allow ships to resist bumps? Not sure how they'd work, but the effect when used would be little to no movement off course when "bumped" by another vessel. 
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.16 21:10:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/03/2007 21:08:42
Originally by: SilentBladez
Seriously , if you take a truck and ram another truck from behind at full speed , the first thing that happens to you is you die! you don't bump the other truck out of the way and keep rolling on. It would be more interesting having the person bumping you at greater velocity with severe damage and smoking out the port holes. Bumping others should make those people explode and for us to collect the loot.
Bumping wth phoon is good ! Yesterday I caught a ratter raven (guess a farmer corp, tbh). He had two stabs. I had only one scrambler point.
First he escaped me several times, but he didn't go to save. He even tried to travel home. He said something like 'Come and get me !'. He felt safe.
Then in his home system before he could warp to station I had found the right bumping rythm and bumped him and hindered him from warping, until he was dead. His last words were 'Help me !' Haha. \o/
Did I mention I enjoyed it ? 
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Muuuhhh !!! |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.16 21:14:00 -
[104]
They should at a minumum make bumping take mass more into account. Frieghters SHOULD plow over or push through any other ships that sitting in the dock zone. If and Inty slams into a BS with full Overdrive MWD on have him fly 10km away on the bump. The BS might nudge a bit. Bumping should not prevent a warp. Yes, even a Mom or Titan.
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Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Xipe Totec
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Posted - 2007.03.17 08:02:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Plutoinum
He had two stabs. I had only one scrambler point.First he escaped me several times, but he didn't go to save. He even tried to travel home. Then in his home system before he could warp to station I had found the right bumping rythm and bumped him and hindered him from warping, until he was dead.
Thanks for proving my point, "Bumping" is IMHO unintended gameplay ...
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.17 17:35:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
How else are we supposed to stop Titans warping..?
I suggest you read back a few posts. Someone already mentioned an idea that several smaller ships BS or Dreads would be able to use combined mass to do the job. A solo speck of dust shouldn't be able to bump a Titan to stop it warping while they wait for the rest of the fleet to turn up.
I believe players who have been playing longer keep harping on about teamwork when someone mentions solo play. Or is this not applicable now that it affects them instead?
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Eric Secundus
Caldari
Deux Ex Machina
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Posted - 2007.03.17 19:10:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Xipe Totec
Originally by: Jon Hawkes
How else are we supposed to stop Titans warping..?
Maybe you weren't supposed to be able to in the frist place. Hence my wondering about unintended gameplay ...
Exactly. It amazes me how this isnt seen by more people.. If no WARP SCRAMBLERS work on the biggest capital ships, maybe its because OTHER SHIPS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO STOP THEM FROM WARPING.
The bump-to-stop-from-warping is going the same way as warp-to-0km bookmarks when it started in the older days of EVE. It was an unintended use that the developers did not think of, and did not approve of. Unfortunately the problem became so widespread it became a standard instead of an exploit until CCP finally removed it. I hope they find a way to remove bumping that doesnt end in them just allowing it because they cant find a good solution to stopping it.
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Scientists claim that hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe. They are wrong.
Stupidity is the most abundant substance in the universe |
Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.03.17 19:12:00 -
[108]
Make all stations eject you out of dock range then.
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monkeyduck
Mithril Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.17 19:37:00 -
[109]
Making mass count for warp/movement would be an awesome improvement. Damage caused by collision not so much.
When I come out of a station in a freighter, everything should move out of my way. My shields should repel everyone else - bounce frigs further than higher massed ships.
For PvP - taking mass into account could really add to gameplay, I think. You want that ship 100 times your size tipped from warp align? Get your gang to all slam into him at once. Seems most logical. Maybe add a gang command feature: Ram target. 
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Cygnus Zhada
Amarr
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.17 19:46:00 -
[110]
Compared to the whole mathematical projectile vomit faster-than-light travel as used in warping should induce I find the "bumping should cause damage" debate rather unimportant.
Yes, I use lasers, please stop laughing in the back. |
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Cenmocay76
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:01:00 -
[111]
/signed
u can stop a carrier with a frigate,its so dumb
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:02:00 -
[112]
bumped
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:03:00 -
[113]
You can stop a carrier with a sentry drone. Something is wrong.
/signed
RISE Recruitment Thread
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
Bottomfeeders Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:16:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Zatch
Edited by: Zatch on 13/03/2007 05:18:31
The issue here isn't realism, bumping something at 10km/s should result in some sort of severe damage if, say, both ships are out of armor and shields. However, flagging people for bumping others or even causing damage is a really bad idea. The undocking example, warp to zero, even just traffic jams where people don't land on each other but are trying to move in opposite directions, or orbiting a station/stargate, there's simply too much that could easily go wrong.
Edit: Kinetic Energy = 0.5mv^2 (one half mass times velocity squared.) The velocity component is squared, so it has a significantly higher effect on the final kinetic energy than the mass does.
Holy crap man, im hear to play a game, your physics just gave me a headache n made me remember i got work tomorrow damnit
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Ladyah Liandri
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:52:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Xtro 2
bumping is only a joke when you see something small and fast bump something much larger, if its the other way round or same size ships then leave it as is.
A joke? It's called physics IIRC. I'll help you with that:
- take a basketball and tennisball
- put the basketball on the ground
- now take the tennisball and let it drop onto the basketball. The tennisball will bump off the basketball which in turn wouldn't move much
- now take the tennisball again and step back like 3 meters
- throw the tennisball at the basketball as hard as you can. See?
In case the basketball didn't move it's because
either you threw like a girl or
it was a glitch in the Matrix.
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Damares
Flying While Intoxicated
The Threshold
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:17:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Damares on 08/06/2007 09:19:37
Edited by: Damares on 08/06/2007 09:18:05
mass is much more relevant than speed, i once worked out, for the hell of it  how fast a fly would have to be travelling to stop a train, (head on collision) all hypothetical ofcourse, and it came to something like 5.1x10^29, at that speed god knows what would have happend, this being a fly made out of indestructable skin ofc hehe train too, that was just to show how much energy would be needed to cancel each other out, hypothetical, it wouldnt work really, but still just to prove a point.
also, above poster, a more eve like comparison would be a bowling ball and a small stone, i bet you if you threw a stone at a bowling ball it wouldnt move very much/at all
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:35:00 -
[117]
Holy necro batman!
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Caffeine Junkie
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:46:00 -
[118]
Damage is not absolutely necessary, what should happen however is when two ships bump, the outcome is reflective of the mass and inertia of the ship. I.e. A battleship can plow through a destroyer and just watch the destroyer bounce off.
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Valorem
Amarr
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:52:00 -
[119]
Thread Necro is very bad.
Valorem
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