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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:16:01 -
[1] - Quote
Can I get a Dev comment on this please?
Who was it that thought flying around at less than 3.0AU is immersive or rewarding in any form?
I believe most of the player base had no problem with smaller tackle ships and cruiser size hulls warping around faster than the larger hulls.
But seriously the time in warp for larger sub cap ships is RIDICULOUS. How was it that one day all the sub caps went at 3.0 and the next day all of a sudden BS and other T1 warships were nerfed into the ******* groud to move slowly. I realize that you want us to all fly expensive t3 to burn isk but the cost of this has been a profound nerf to roaming gangs of larger ship types, many of them some of the most iconic ships in the game.
How in a game is this supposed to be fun? Where is the sense of pace or urgency when we fly around in larger ships like some form of fricken space snails. Perhaps cap ships should be warping around at 2.5 or so. I appreciate that CCP gave us a clone set and rigs so we could nerf the crap out of our ships to warp around at a reasonable speed but seriously WTF.
I am a 10 year+ vet and I literally cannot bring myself to undock anymore to warp around in a BS at the ridiculous speeds that now apply in the game. I used to do an 1-3 hour roam almost every night of the week , post the warp speed changes that died as the time needed to cover territory to give even a slight chance of running across something to kill went up too far.
It has killed roaming gangs using larger hull sizes almost totally, was this by design?
Maybe we should all sit in stations with alt accounts running around to then blops or WH drop on someone but FFS please return he warp speeds to larger sub caps to something useable. Spending hours in warp is I believe genuinely bad for the game.
Think about how new players to the game experience it. How do you think they find the amount of time spent in warp? as an exciting or immersive experience? or a throw back to a style of gaming that has died out.
Industrial ships should also have their AU warp speeds looked at. There was a time when commerce ships were fast as warships or faster they did not have weapon and armor on board. Perhaps if freighters and other ships moved with speed it would give us more time to expend on the interesting elements of the game.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:45:57 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If I can figure out how to get a Megathron to run around like an assault frigate you can get a BS to warp at 3 au/sec.
With a tank? ******. Did you read the full post? |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.15 23:49:09 -
[3] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow.
No ships are 'naturally slow' this is a choice that CCP are placing on us. Which universe would you prefer to inhabit, one where you warp around quickly or at least reasonably or one where it takes 2 minutes in a freighter to cross the system.
I'm not asking for interceptor speed for BS and BC hulls. I am asking for a return to how the game ran for nearly 10 years. It wasn't broken then.
Does anyone actually like warping around at these speeds in large ships? ask yourself would the game be more fun and exciting if warp time was reduced or not. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.16 01:15:48 -
[4] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:jiujitsutou wrote:Kenrailae wrote:You mean before Phoebe and capitals being able to use gates, right?
also, Yeah, some ships are slower than others, and for them to not be so would not make a lick of sense.
caps would be an obvious exception to this Yet Freighters are the example he keeps using.
To be honest it is warships that I would prefer see have the increased AU speed. But This is computer spaceship pixels we are talking about so any of them could go at any speed. It is a game play / game experience thing.
Is it fun to plod around at 1.5 AU? Also if you want to use a real world analogy then WW 2 battleships were often the fastest ships at sea. Freight ships such as tea clippers and other large bulk vessels have in the past been some of the fastest ships on the ocean.
Added to that no one felt that the game was broken when everything pretty much went at 3.0AU. I'm not asking for a game changing buff to all ships although I do genuinely believe that it is warranted, I am asking for some sense to allow larger ships to roam space without the sacrifice required by warp speed rigs and clones.
It is an easy change to larger ships that just don't get taken on roams. Or do we all have to sit waiting on a titan / wormhole or for the blops cyno to go up. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 04:41:05 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for the input and the positive criticism, it is most welcome.
My main concern is the time it takes to travel 20-30 jumps in subcaps particularly the larger older T1 ships in the game, namely the BC and BS class.
There used to be large numbers of small fleets roaming looking for trouble, that has become a rare thing unless you run across fleets of T3D's or other fast moving ships.
The warp speed nerf reduced to vanishingly rare BS fleets or mixed ship type gangs that used to be a fairly common sight. CCP clearly felt it was not game breaking to allow people to use bubble immune, rigged and module fit interceptors to cross from one side of the map to the other in hour or so. (In fact does anyone know what the record is?).
I am just asking them to reconsider the nerf to larger sub cap ships in the game. They have already done this to some degree with the BC hulls I believe. I just would very much like to see roaming gangs of ships return to the game in numbers and I believe that the warp speed is a direct reason why they are not a more common sight. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 05:04:21 -
[6] - Quote
My point is that when we have to travel for content the time taken reduces our options to find something (someone) to engage with.
Following the 3.0AU nerf the roams that I led went no where near as far in the same period of time. This is the crux of my argument. if you spend too much time traveling in sub caps then content opportunities are lost. Or you look at the map and say, that is too far to go, or there is no WH network that lets me reach where I want to go.
Outcome less fleets to find, less opportunity for a fight.
Again, not asking BS and BC to move like interceptors, just asking for a buff to 3.0AU to enable a return to small gang roaming. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 22:54:45 -
[7] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:No, bombers reduced the large number of battleships roaming about.
If you want to bring a BS around quickly, find a w-space connection to do it.
In low sec? perhaps in 0.0 where bombing runs are a thing. I think CCP have made a mistake by increasing the travel time for larger sub caps. And I believe that it is a serious one.
Groups of 10-15 size roams out looking for a fight are becoming very very rare.
This is bloody serious as it makes people less and less likely to just go out for a roam to see what they come across. This is a ****** way to let the game head.
Reverse the warp speed nerf now, buff the older t1 hulls and let us get back to roaming gangs where random and exciting **** happens instead of waiting for something to happen and then sending out a ping to form up and drop.
This inability to move around larger sub caps quickly is a genuine threat to the game. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:07:43 -
[8] - Quote
I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game. I believe that the AU changes played a significant role in reducing the number of BC and BS gangs that we see roaming (if roaming is even a thing anymore).
I cannot see how returning the BS and BC to 3.0 AU warp speed is going to be in any way game breaking. People then would have a CHOICE to rig or implant their ships to warp faster opposed to the current meta which is just to leave that **** at home in the hanger.
ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 03:39:03 -
[9] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Why does my alliance have BS doctrines fits?
I don't know, although I suspect it is to drop them through a titan bridge. Do you go on roams in BS and BCs?
Is your BS doctrine in Machs? Do you actually fly the BS doctrine..... |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.18 03:45:17 -
[10] - Quote
Nice, how often do you use them? do you ever roam in those ships or use them as a response fleet for tower defense etc? |
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.18 04:37:27 -
[11] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:I don't mean to interrupt this thread and send a derailing topic into the mix.
But you two look remarkably similar.
Lol. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:05:23 -
[12] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Me? Never. I don't have Amarr BS trained, and my missiles skills are sub par.
When a comp for those is posted I just drop fleet and go do something else. I'm also AUTZ in a largely USTZ alliance.
/facepalm |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 10:41:52 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone. CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships.
Bal-tecGäó manufactures custom-made balls. (seriously I did not make that up). You can read about them on precisionballs.com
BTW are you seriously suggesting that an interceptor is unable to catch a battleship which has had its warp speed buffed to 3.0?
As I also stated in my first post which lets face it you didn't read that I am quite happy with cruiser size hulls and smaller warping faster than the larger ships in the game.
The issue I have is that it takes too long for BS and BC to roam any reasonable distance and this has lead in part to a reduction in the number of gangs out for a roam. It certainly has created a bias towards fleets that can warp and align quickly.
I am in no way suggesting a nerf to small fast ships, I am asking that the larger hulls receive a mild buff back to 3.0AU where they were quite happily placed for over 10 years.
(Just to repeat again in case someone missed it) leave the smaller hulls to warp faster, no issue with that at all. I disagree that a rig slot lost to a warp speed rig is not a significant sacrifice for a BC or BS. No other warships have to do this to go on a simple fricken roam. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:35:47 -
[14] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Maraner wrote:I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game..... You do know there are lowslot modules for warping now in the game, right?
Yes... to recap I am asking for a buff to 3.0 regardless of available rigs, implants or modules. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:36:40 -
[15] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
That is the most sensible thing anyone has said in this thread |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 21:55:23 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:elitatwo wrote:
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Nah I'm just stubborn and love the Megathron.
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced??? |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.23 23:35:08 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I just looked at your kills since 2010 on Zkill for Baltec1 and I don't see any of these amazing uses of the battleship. Only solo kills in purifiers and the odd solo cruiser kill. It appears you've never actually killed anything in a battleship by yourself.....
Yep because zkill is the be all and end all of assessing people skill Its fairly well known I know my battleships and I have a reputation in null for making them do things you consider impossible. You on the other hand are well known for not understanding the game much at all. Infinity Ziona wrote: Oh I set up your Armor Raven then I set up a Cerb to perform the role as well:
Why would you bother with a Raven? Comedy ?
And what frigate is going to engage a solo cerb in this day and age? Its a trap card, they are far more likely to attack a solo raven and will not be expecting it to rain down rapid lights, nuets and have enough webs and tackle to hold multiple ships down. The armour tank keeps them in place because they see the shields going down which must mean they are killing it.
I realize that this will invalidate much of what I am saying... but Baltec1 you are a pig.
How are you qualified to talk about warp speed given that you don't roam in BS or BC?
Anyone that disagrees with your is either stupid or misinformed. God forbid we don't see the game the same way the mighty baltec does.
And your killboard does fuckin suck. You are all gob. Your fits are ridiculous, and also I have yet to run across any of them despite (unlike you) being on thousands of BS killmails.
You argue against other peoples suggestions with the rationale that they are 'bad' or not necessary. When someone confronts you about your abilities in the game you insult them.
My argument around buffing warp speeds for BS and BC is to hopefully see a return to these ships in low sec and 0.0 in roaming groups. If you take out a small gang of these ships people tend to commit and turn up to shoot them, the issue is the amount of time it takes to cover a reasonable amount of space to hopefully run into something.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.24 01:29:17 -
[18] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Called a pig and compared to rolf harris yet I'm the one insulting people Why exactly should I be nice to you people? The reason this is a **** plan has been explained, buff the BS to cruiser speed and you get cruiser pilots demanding faster warp speeds, buff them and you have frigate pilots demanding faster warp speeds. Buff them and you are not only back to where you started but you have just made in system warp distances meaningless. To get a battleship up to 3au requires just one rig slot and 2 implants (I have said this multiple times) which is just one fitting slot on your ship. If using that one rig slot is too much sacrifice for you then your fitting abilities are indeed poor.
Actually you do look a bit like Rolf, just need a beard.
Yes you have said that a BS needs one rig and 2 implants. Shut up about that. We have already explained why that is not acceptable. Why don't you say it again though. My first post noted that this was possible and why it was not reasonable.
The game wasn't broken for the 10 years when everything went at 3.0
FFS just asking for BS and BC's to get a small buff. Why don't you suggest the cruisers can then fit 1 rig and 2 implants to keep up. Fuckwit.
IT IS TAKING TOO LONG TO ROAM DECENT DISTANCES IN BC AND BS WITHOUT UNACCEPTABLE FITTING NERFS, this has lead to a decline in their use unless launched from a titan or through a WH.
Why don't you come up with some other ****** fittings for BS in the game, you could suggest a Mega with an ******* in the mid slots but clearly you already fly that ship.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.24 01:31:12 -
[19] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: I didn't compare you to Rolf Harris, I made an observation to the effect that opinion and reality are sometimes different. You clearly are a decent EvE pilot and I use a number of your fits myself but being good in a battleship requires not only understanding the battleships strengths but experiencing its weaknesses too.
1) Take a megathron out solo and experience how its lock speed ensures you miss every lock you attempt on any non battleship size. 2) Put an improved cloak on a frigate and warp into a belt and try to lock something, you will, now do that with a battleship (hopefully the guys asleep as you hang there waiting to come out of warp) try to lock him, make a coffee while you wait, it'll take a while. 3) Fit a BS sized energy nuet on your mega, try to cap out a frigate with it. Its a 24 second cycle so its completely useless 4) Sick your unbonused warriors on an interceptor, watch them pop while it flies around you outside of smartbomb range, evading your blasters, ignoring your 24 second nuet, while your scrambled and helpless.
There are so many issues with battleships, there were before the nerf to warp speed, they're only really good in a fleet with logi, apart from a few such as a bhaalgorn, mach, dom etc and those are only good because they have certain things which are not reliant on BS specific weaponry and stats (nuets, speed, drones).
The only problem with the battleships you are flying is that you are flying them.
Well at least I actually fly them stealth bomber boy |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.24 01:42:15 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: IT IS TAKING TOO LONG TO ROAM DECENT DISTANCES IN BC AND BS WITHOUT UNACCEPTABLE FITTING NERFS, this has lead to a decline in their use unless launched from a titan or through a WH.
Yea no. If you cannot face the loss of one rig slot then you have no business being in a battleship. You being bad and impatient does not mean CCP should screw up the game.
Yea no. I thought you said it was a rig and 2 implants (like 500 hundred ******* times).
The game wasn't screwed up for the 10 years we all flew around at 3.0AU, or do you disagree?
These ship warp too slowly and therefore are not seen in space out on roams as much as they were. Right or wrong, fitting choice or not that was one of the outcomes of the nerf to warp speed. Along with the other disadvantages of the class they are becoming scarce.
The lock times are bad (why don't you suggest I fit a sebo, because that had not occurred), the tracking is terrible ( you could suggest I fit a tracking computer or use some implants at this point) and there are many other issues with these ships.
I am asking for a buff irrespective of the rigs, modules and implants available. |
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.24 01:47:16 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
Well at least I actually fly them stealth bomber boy
Look up some EVE history before you try that, it will stop you from looking as stupid as you just did.
Please... get over yourself. If you are having trouble with that you could fit an implant. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.24 02:48:06 -
[22] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
And you wont get it. You have just demonstrated where the problem is and its not with the battleships. You are the person that will complain about tracking while turret battleships are killing interceptors, complain about locking times while people are running around in solo dreadnoughts, complaining about warp speed wile people are roaming in carriers and complaining about heavy neuts while the heavy neut geddon is one of the most feared ships out there.
This demand of yours is dead in the water.
I did not complain about roaming carriers, solo dreds, heavy neuts or the neut geddon. So stop adding things that I did not say Rolf.
I am asking for a small buff to BS and BC warp speed which you seem to think is akin to frigate tracking on a Titan!
Why are you so obsessed with striking down every single thread on buffs to T1 ships? Why do you have such a rabid and fixated world view that you cannot just post something such as "I disagree" and just go **** off and fly another bomber?
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
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Posted - 2016.08.25 20:52:10 -
[23] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Maraner wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Warp rigged ascendancy bowhead with warp speed lows get 6.2 au/s, the landing caps at 6.
I don't see a problem.
As for freighters you can get them over 3 too.
Deal with it some ships are naturally slow. No ships are 'naturally slow' this is a choice that CCP are placing on us. Which universe would you prefer to inhabit, one where you warp around quickly or at least reasonably or one where it takes 2 minutes in a freighter to cross the system. I'm not asking for interceptor speed for BS and BC hulls. I am asking for a return to how the game ran for nearly 10 years. It wasn't broken then. Does anyone actually like warping around at these speeds in large ships? ask yourself would the game be more fun and exciting if warp time was reduced or not. I bet you got podded by santo and you are salty that his sin/prot landed on a moon before your pod and blapped your ass or something similar. Nah mate, slow warp speeds on certain ships make this game more intersting. Warp speed changes was one of the best changes CCP made.
Not suggesting a jump in pod warp speed at all!
Also very happy that smaller ships got a buff and warp faster, no issue there.
But the nerf to BS and BC was ridiculous. They had moved around at 3.0 for over 10 years then all of a sudden they didnt. At that point gangs of mixed ship types started to disappear. I'm not asking for anything unbalanced, just a small nudge for BS and BC so they can at least move around together and roam a reasonable distance in a couple of hours.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
362
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Posted - 2016.08.28 22:50:07 -
[24] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:I could be wrong but I think Maraner is starting to take this personally. What's the matter? Shadow Cartel not able to put together a big enough blob to put together a battleship roam?
Or is it the prospect of just maybe not having enough batphone if you do get attacked?
You also keep mistakenly correlating the warp speed nerf as the reason people stopped using battleships, not the 'drop everything if it undocks' mentality that certain groups.... like Shadow Cartel.... have adopted, and refuse to 'fight' any other way. Why should people bring battle cruisers and battleships and the like when they know they're 10 man gang is just gonna get dropped by 40 mach's 18 guardians, 5 dreads, 2 carriers, 3 fax, and 2 supers?
Blob formation not a problem thanks.
The whole point of the thread is a mild buff to BS and BC to enable small (or blob sized) gangs of the larger sub caps to roam further distances than they can at present without unacceptable (yes baltec1 ... unacceptable to me) compromise on rigs or implant sets.
That was all. Just asking for a small buff to the older t1 hulls in the game. You might just see more of them and less fleets of Machs around. There are some good suggestions coming out in the thread so I am glad it is still rolling on. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
362
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Posted - 2016.08.28 22:53:17 -
[25] - Quote
Umino Iruka wrote:Look...
The main issue here is that the current battleship meta is choking smaller pvp groups heavily - smaller groups who don't have 50 people on standby 24/7 so that they can all just fly swarms of T3 dessies or pirate/t2 frigates.
When it comes to small scale PvP and roams in general, you need fast response ships (they don't even have to be kitey) with enough dps to deal with fights before you get blobbed - something battleships are very capable of doing (including being able to take a hit) except they are too slow to get there in time to be of any use.
So, in order to fix that, you HAVE to fit two T2 hyperspatial rigs to achieve 3AU/s warp speed and what ever agility mods are needed to cut your align time to 8 seconds or preferably less - which is basically trying to turn every battleship in the game into a Machariel...of course, if you do that on an actual Machariel, you get 4.5AU/s speed before any implants....
Slow align and warp speed is also plaguing most battlecruisers which are faster than t1 battleships, but also have fewer fitting slots so it's pretty much the same thing fitting 2 hyperspatials on a BS and 1 hyperspatial on a BC in terms of fit gimping.
While I don't believe all battleships should be fast and agile like the Mach, I believe CCP should make further distinction between attack battleships and combat battleships - combat battleships staying slow as they are right now, but attack battleships gaining better agility and warp speed (notice I'm not asking for more sublight speed, only alignment and warp speed).
3.3AU/s for command ships 3AU/s for attack battlecruisers 2.75AU/s for marauders and blops 2.5AU/s for combat battlecruisers 2.5AU/s for attack battleships 2AU/s for combat battleships
The Machariel would still be king of the hill for kiting and warp speed and agility and hyperspatial rigs would still be a thing, but other battleships and battlecruisers whose ROLE is speed and firepower would have an easier time actually getting to a fight before it's already over.
Would be nice flying more than one ship and not feel like you're doing it wrong, right?
That would be a reasonable and potentially interesting change to differentiate between the attack and combat BS. Would still like a bit more....just like my wife.
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