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Hyperion vs. Rokh for lvl 4 missions

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deshan Gallente The Mighty All Blacks	Posted - 2007.03.14 17:55:00 - [1] Hello folks ive been doing some thinking and im wondering if you have got any input. Ive been playing with these setups in Quikfit Rokh fit (in my opinion the optimal for lvl 4) High: 8x 350 t2 rails med: 1x caprecharger t2, 3x harders(race specific), boost amp, XL shield booster t2 low: 1x dmg mod, 4x power diac rigs: 3x capacitor control circuit hyperion (in my opinion best lvl 4 setup) High: 8x 350 t2 rails med: 5x caprecharger t2 low: 4x harderners, 1x t2 large armor rep, 1x relay rigs: 3x auxiliary nano pump (for max rep) so which is the optimal dmg vs tank? (before u start say omg omg why are'nt you using 425 rails instead.... its is because there are no tracking bonuses on either of the ships so i wont be able to hit anything with 425's) For me the hyperion have got some good advantages towards the rokh. (this might ofc be diffrent depending on your skills) 1. I can run all modules at all times without running out of cap 2. It has more dmg than the rokh. The dmg multiplier on the hyperion is about 1,5 higher than on the rokh. advantages with the rokh build. 1. It can boost more (not much more) 2. It is much fast than the hyperion ofc(because of rigs) 3. It has more range on guns
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:19:00 - [2] I would say hyperion, but I think I would duel REP and have a tracking computer in the mids Other thing to consider is that the Rokh can fit 4 missile bays, I'd probably use those if I was running lvl4's in that ship. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:22:00 - [3] Originally by: Byzan Zwyth I would say hyperion, but I think I would duel REP and have a tracking computer in the mids Other thing to consider is that the Rokh can fit 4 missile bays, I'd probably use those if I was running lvl4's in that ship. You shouldn't need a dual rep - the nano pump thing + the ship bonus means that that one rep will be the equivalent of over 2. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:24:00 - [4] do u really need 5 cap recharger II's and a relay just to run 1 large rep, a few hardeners and guns on the hyp? i'd swap 1 for a tracking comp and enhancer and change for 425's. but that's just me. i'd say rokh is better tbh but that's only because it can fit 3 mag stabs and still tank well where as the hyp can't really. but u don't seem to have used them for that. DE
deshan Gallente The Mighty All Blacks	Posted - 2007.03.14 18:48:00 - [5] Originally by: DarkElf do u really need 5 cap recharger II's and a relay just to run 1 large rep, a few hardeners and guns on the hyp? i'd swap 1 for a tracking comp and enhancer and change for 425's. but that's just me. i'd say rokh is better tbh but that's only because it can fit 3 mag stabs and still tank well where as the hyp can't really. but u don't seem to have used them for that. DE it can run all mods simultanious that includes all the guns
EyeMaster	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:09:00 - [6] Edited by: EyeMaster on 14/03/2007 21:09:42 Imo use the following for missions: Rokh [HI] 4x Siege Launchers 4x Dual 250s -or- 3x Guns and 1x Tractor Beam [Med] 1x XL Booster 3x Hardeners as needed 2x Boost Amp -or- 1x Boost Amp and 1x Tracking Computer [Low] 2x PDU 2x BCU 1x Magstab [Drone] Whatever your flavor -Eye
Lamias	Posted - 2007.03.14 22:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Lamias on 14/03/2007 22:27:17 I know it's not a Hype or Rohk, but I use this regularly and I can solo every level 4 mission without warping out. I do turn AB on and run around but I don't warp out. I have eleven million SP in combat. I believe this is optimal for my playstyle maybe its something to consider b/c imho it's much more efficient than Rohk or Hype in this role. I just need heavy T2 drones for the BS's. Why I think it's worthy of being mentioned here? It still has a rack of rails, the same 5% damage bonus as Hype and the repper hits for 1058 with this setup. EDIT: I have AWU3 and BS3. Dominix ((I have a blaster setup that works well too)) Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per skill level. 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] Drone Link Augmentor I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II ((reps for 1056)) Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit I Rigs : Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Ancillary Current Router I \ Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II 6015 shield, 6.68/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/29/47/64 7453 armor, E/T/K/Ex=65/44/87/82 6000.0 cap, +33.0/s, -73.806/s 291.0 m/s 108.7 DPS ((doesn't count drones)) Here's my Hype setup for same mission: Hyperion Special Ability: 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount of armor repair systems 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun [80xAntimatter Charge L] ((I only have AWU3)) 100MN Afterburner II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Large Armor Repairer II ((reps for 1296)) Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Rigs : Hybrid Collision Accelerator I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II 8250 shield, 9.17/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/29/47/64 9600 armor, E/T/K/Ex=65/44/87/82 8640.0 cap, +34.45/s, -82.402/s 318.0 m/s 191.3 DPS ((doesn't count drones))
DarkElf Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.03.17 09:47:00 - [8] Originally by: deshan Originally by: DarkElf do u really need 5 cap recharger II's and a relay just to run 1 large rep, a few hardeners and guns on the hyp? i'd swap 1 for a tracking comp and enhancer and change for 425's. but that's just me. i'd say rokh is better tbh but that's only because it can fit 3 mag stabs and still tank well where as the hyp can't really. but u don't seem to have used them for that. DE it can run all mods simultanious that includes all the guns Yes of course you can run all mods with that kind of cap layout. My point is, as i said do you really need all those cap mods just to run 1 rep and the other modules? surely if u have decent cap skills u can change a recharger or 2 for tracking mods or something else useful DE
Pantaloon	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:25:00 - [9] You really don't need 5 cap recharger IIs to make the Hype work well. ABII, 3 cap recharger IIs, Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer. With 3 auxiliary nano pumps you shouldn't need to run the repper forever anyway, but without the guns running, the rep will run forever with decent skills.
Galliana Foresta Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:25:00 - [10] Alts ftw ^^ ---------------
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:36:00 - [11] Keep in mind that you're going to pour all this money into a tier 3 BS, but you won't be able to match a Raven/Dominix in PvE. The Hyperion/Rokh are PvP ships in general, and fleet ships in specific, don't expect them to be great in mission-running just because they're more expensive.
Thaddeus Brutor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.03.17 15:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Keep in mind that you're going to pour all this money into a tier 3 BS, but you won't be able to match a Raven/Dominix in PvE. The Hyperion/Rokh are PvP ships in general, and fleet ships in specific, don't expect them to be great in mission-running just because they're more expensive. I'm trying to follow something here, as I fly an Abaddon, and I just unlocked my L4Q20 agent, and I'm going to start flying L4's pretty heavily, though I have little experience with them. My current tank is 2x LAR II & 4x Resist, and for omni-resists I run 1x EX/KN/TH II and 1x EANM II (giving me 75/77/78/81 omni-resists). I use 3 CCC's which lets me run everything, as well as my 8x beams. I've been told by people who claim to run a lot of L4's (I don't know them that well) that it's not enough tank. 2x LAR II is 1600 armor / 11.25 seconds = 142 armor/sec 1x LAR + 3x rep amount is 1216 armor / 11.25 sec = 108 armor/sec (maybe less, not sure if QuickFit added stack penalty) 1x LAR + 3x rep duration rig is 800 armor / 6.91 sec = 115 armor/sec It sure sounds like the posters here feel that 1x LAR II + 3x rep amount rigs can tank L4s. So what I'm getting at is will 2x LAR II's with those resists (and 85 EX/86KN for rat specific worst case) be enough for L4 tanking?
Galliana Foresta Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2007.03.17 16:58:00 - [13] In a word, "yes"... but only until Tuesday - turns out this upcoming patch is going to nerf auxiliary nano pumps pretty heavily if you use 3, so while 2 with BS 5 will certainly boost your rep amount, you might want to check it out on Singularity before you commit those rigs to your ship. Using 2 nano pumps and 1 nano accelerator seems to be a decent enough compromise, but that shorter cycle time on the reps from the nano accelerator may push your cap/sec usage just over the sustainability line.. Just a thought. ---------------
Thaddeus Brutor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Galliana Foresta Edited by: Galliana Foresta on 17/03/2007 17:24:24 In a word, "yes"... but only until Tuesday - turns out this upcoming patch is going to nerf auxiliary nano pumps pretty heavily if you use 3, so while 2 with BS 5 will certainly boost your rep amount, you might want to check it out on Singularity before you commit those rigs to your ship. Using 2 nano pumps and 1 nano accelerator seems to be a decent enough compromise, but that shorter cycle time on the reps from the nano accelerator may push your cap/sec usage just over the sustainability line.. Just a thought. Edit: Checked this in quickfit, and 2 auxiliary nano pumps with 1 nano accelerator is actually better HP/sec than 3 nano pumps. The stacking nerf hasn't been applied yet, but from the look of it, the 2/1 setup, post nerf, will be roughly equivalent to the 3 nanopump setup pre nerf - just at greater cap expenditure than before. Cool, thanks for the reply. I'm in the 2x LAR II + 4x Resist Slot category, too. So my tank is much stronger than 1x LAR II + 3 armor rigs. I use 3x CCC and can keep a sustained capacitor already, so I figured 142 armor/sec would be plenty of repping power. Even with omni-resists, I can withstand 568 DPS to my weakest resist, and if I double up on 2 resists, my worst case would be 85% to EX (with 2x T2 EX Hardener), or 946 DPS limit.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Keep in mind that you're going to pour all this money into a tier 3 BS, but you won't be able to match a Raven/Dominix in PvE. The Hyperion/Rokh are PvP ships in general, and fleet ships in specific, don't expect them to be great in mission-running just because they're more expensive. I'm trying to follow something here, as I fly an Abaddon, and I just unlocked my L4Q20 agent, and I'm going to start flying L4's pretty heavily, though I have little experience with them. My current tank is 2x LAR II & 4x Resist, and for omni-resists I run 1x EX/KN/TH II and 1x EANM II (giving me 75/77/78/81 omni-resists). I use 3 CCC's which lets me run everything, as well as my 8x beams. I've been told by people who claim to run a lot of L4's (I don't know them that well) that it's not enough tank. 2x LAR II is 1600 armor / 11.25 seconds = 142 armor/sec 1x LAR + 3x rep amount is 1216 armor / 11.25 sec = 108 armor/sec (maybe less, not sure if QuickFit added stack penalty) 1x LAR + 3x rep duration rig is 800 armor / 6.91 sec = 115 armor/sec It sure sounds like the posters here feel that 1x LAR II + 3x rep amount rigs can tank L4s. So what I'm getting at is will 2x LAR II's with those resists (and 85 EX/86KN for rat specific worst case) be enough for L4 tanking? Are you taking in to account the hyperions (not inconsiderable) armor rep bonus? ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Galliana Foresta Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2007.03.17 21:48:00 - [16] Edited by: Galliana Foresta on 17/03/2007 21:46:27 Never mind ---------------

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