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Magic barrier of 20M ISK / 1h what i'm doing wrong ?

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Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:23:17 - [1] - Quote Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 106	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:31:09 - [2] - Quote Missions & Complexes section can help you i think. generally your income depends on the dps you are putting out. running lv4 missions alone can be inefficient without the right dps. also where do you live? HS i presume also never tried to rat in null sec? etc there are many options. need more details, for example the ships you can fly etc
Deck Cadelanne CAStabouts 350	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:36:31 - [3] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour The only thing I have personally tried that yields that level of income is ratting anomalies in sov null. I am not the most efficient, but solo in a not-blinged-out drone BS I seem to manage around the same ISK/hour in bounty payouts. Maybe 25% more if I drop an MTU and run an alt in a Noctis. @ 25 million ISK per hour is a reasonable average - until you get cloaky campers and hot droppers which of course knocks that way down. I suppose it is possible to break that cap if you can jack the DPS even higher but I suspect that would mean using a carrier? I suspect there is a good reason why some players just do incursions to earn big ISK... *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17995	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:43:41 - [4] - Quote This guide should provide you with the info you require to get up to 200 mil/hr in highsec. Even if you are lacking the skills, ships and funds you should be able to take the info in it and improve your low income right away. Plus it gives you a goal to work towards
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:55:00 - [5] - Quote I fly Maelstrom - all T2 modules (including artilery and drones) and have a Noctis for salvaging and looting. Can fly T1 Ships from frigate to BS (Minmatar / Caldari). I think i could train more skills that improve my DPS - which I can't reach above 350 DPS including drones damage. (Alpha is ~ 4k) baltec1 wrote: This guide should provide you with the info you require to get up to 200 mil/hr in highsec. Even if you are lacking the skills, ships and funds you should be able to take the info in it and improve your low income right away. Plus it gives you a goal to work towards Thank You mate.
Major Trant 287 Marine Regiment 1499	Posted - 2016.08.24 08:56:07 - [6] - Quote You're being too honest. You don't start the timer until you're in the mission and fire the first shot. You stop the timer the moment you hand in the mission. You don't count time to the mission. Nor any time involved in setting up your mission ship, converting the LP or salvage to Isk, or breaks between missions. You don't count the cost of ammunition, other charges or lost drones and you calculate the value of salvage and LP based on the best possible sell price. Without regard for any cost to get it to market, ignoring taxes and broker fees, or any losses when you give up on the 0.1 isk game and finally sell it to that buy order 20% lower. If you are unfortunate enough to lose a ship in a mission or a hauler to a gank on the way to the market, well those losses just don't count. Finally you mark up the calculated value by 30% to allow for the fact that you could have done it faster and more efficiently, but for the wife, gf, cat, brat aggro etc. I'm sure you can squeeze 40M an hour out if you just lie.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:07:50 - [7] - Quote 20M /1h - it's not calculated amount - it is about a scale and scale is 10 - 20 mil ISK / 1h - not 50 - 100 M ISK When I wrote "barrier 20M ISK" I ment, let's say loot only, excluding loses.
Gaius Clabbacus Sister Beneficia's Home of Harmless Miners 26	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:10:35 - [8] - Quote Nullsec anomalies in a 100mn Afterburner Navy Vexor. 15m per tick at the very least.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:12:58 - [9] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Even if you are lacking the skills, ships and funds you should be able to take the info in it and improve your low income right away. Plus it gives you a goal to work towards When I applied a skill plan that is added to this guide - that is for my character 311 days.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3544	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:20:42 - [10] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: When I applied a skill plan that is added to this guide - that is for my character 311 days. The guide he gave you also makes all those assumptions that Trant mentioned. I.E. it takes pure best case scenarios and certain other magic tricks to claim those numbers. The reality is you can halve the numbers anyone claims highsec players earn regulary, and that is more likely to be a legitimate figure for their real income. Certain groups just have an agenda that involves making highsec seem too good. However, mining & gas in low end Wh's your figures seem accurate. Missions you seem a bit low. Make sure the LP is valuable, some LP gets near 2k isk/LP in a reliable way and missions most of your income is in the LP, so if you are doing missions for the wrong corp that will explain it. If you can turn 50/hour on missions you are actually doing well in terms of sustainable missioning.
March rabbit Mosquito Squadron The-Culture 1875	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:27:35 - [11] - Quote huffing gas in 0.0 gives about 90mil/hour (1000 units of gas selling for 90k pu for like 1:06 hour). And it's about 1-2 weeks of training to prospect and t2 gas huffer. I'm pretty sure gas in WHs worth more? Or isn't it? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17995	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:39:23 - [12] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: baltec1 wrote: Even if you are lacking the skills, ships and funds you should be able to take the info in it and improve your low income right away. Plus it gives you a goal to work towards When I applied a skill plan that is added to this guide - that is for my character 311 days. Get the mach first, the rest for running the burner missions can follow but the mach is the important one. Should drastically reduce your training time. Dont worry about using the mach early on in the training, you can get away with the basics and keep on improving as you go. If you could provide your current fit I'll be able to see what you could get away with just by training into the hull.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 09:48:54 - [13] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: so if you are doing missions for the wrong corp that will explain it. If you can turn 50/hour on missions you are actually doing well in terms of sustainable missioning. I'm doing missions for Brutor Tribe, are there better corps in Minmatar space ?
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 903	Posted - 2016.08.24 10:45:51 - [14] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: so if you are doing missions for the wrong corp that will explain it. If you can turn 50/hour on missions you are actually doing well in terms of sustainable missioning. I'm doing missions for Brutor Tribe, are there better corps in Minmatar space ? Yes, there are WAY better corps. This is something you have to figure out using two resources eve agents LP store database Figuring out stuff in game yourself faster and better than others will make you more fun/hour and isk/hour in the long run. It is really a game of brains over brawn. Have you heard anything I've said? You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? That's right. Had to end sometime.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3544	Posted - 2016.08.24 10:51:16 - [15] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: I'm doing missions for Brutor Tribe, are there better corps in Minmatar space ? See where you can do Sisters of EVE missions. They are one of the good ones. You'll need to check the LP rates yourself. Remember to account for how fast a product moves as well, some items seem to have amazing returns but only 1 sells every 3 months
Artayick Nantes Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.08.24 14:35:18 - [16] - Quote If you can fly battleships, take a look at incursions. There are several communities out there to run with. Even with the more friendly/forgiving groups you can make 120mil an hour.. this includes insurance and ammo costs.. You will have some travel times when they move but beyond that... I've yet to find something in this game that makes so much isk for the amount of effort you have to put in. The more aggressive groups is 150 to 180mil an hour. You can plex the account in a long day of running them.. or even with just a couple of days at a few hours a night.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 356	Posted - 2016.08.24 15:41:10 - [17] - Quote For salvage, find an unsuspecting newbie, have him fit out a Noctis (or T1 exploration frigate if he can't fly Noctis), and have said newbie clean up the wrecks. Newbie salvage frigate: Highs: 3x Salvager I Mids: MWD, AB if it will fit Lows: Mix of nanofiber and cargo expanders Rigs: Salvage tackle 1 and maybe a cargo space rig Friend ship best ship. A signature :o
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14470	Posted - 2016.08.24 15:50:23 - [18] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour In additon Anize Onamaras burner mission guide baltec gave you, here is a pretty good post giving you some ideas about what you can do where. A bit dated with the citadel changes but still very close. Also, as has been said, try incursions. If you can fly Maelstrom you can join an incursion fleet. IMO Incursions are the BEST way for a newish player that can fly a BS to isk up to do other things. This is the best guide I've found. Lastly, the best place to ask quesitons like this is not this secion, but rather the missions and complexes section. Here you go: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=248
Haidere Evolution Northern Coalition. 17	Posted - 2016.08.24 17:17:29 - [19] - Quote Deck Cadelanne wrote: Biohazard NML wrote: Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour The only thing I have personally tried that yields that level of income is ratting anomalies in sov null. I am not the most efficient, but solo in a not-blinged-out drone BS I seem to manage around the same ISK/hour in bounty payouts. Maybe 25% more if I drop an MTU and run an alt in a Noctis. @ 25 million ISK per hour is a reasonable average - until you get cloaky campers and hot droppers which of course knocks that way down. I suppose it is possible to break that cap if you can jack the DPS even higher but I suspect that would mean using a carrier? I suspect there is a good reason why some players just do incursions to earn big ISK... If you do the Sanctum/Havens (or equivalent) in a gila, should be much more than a decent BS fit, you should be making at least double that, ~50mil an hour is what I was making in just a gila.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2774	Posted - 2016.08.24 18:13:04 - [20] - Quote Wondering nobody mentioned exploration yet ... it's RNG based per site but relic hunting in the right nullsec region can net you ~100-150M ISK/h if you spend about 4h a stint. I'm my own NPC alt.
Ion Kirst KIRSTONE ALLIANCE 202	Posted - 2016.08.24 18:33:22 - [21] - Quote The problem just may be you don't have enough SPs. As was mentioned, maybe you don't have enough DPS to do a L4 mission faster. Doing the missions faster is key. Depending on what missions you get, it is very easily to make over 20M / hr, and you don't have to blitz them. What ship were you using? What was it's fit? How are your SPs allocated? (what are your strengths, missiles or turrets?) -Kirst Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.25 09:34:01 - [22] - Quote Ion Kirst wrote: What ship were you using? What was it's fit? How are your SPs allocated? (what are your strengths, missiles or turrets?) -Kirst I fly Maelstrom here's fit: [Maelstrom, L4 Misjonarz Speed copy] Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 EMP L x320 Damage I do: Volley: 2.5k DPS: 231 (Including drones) 1 mission ~ 20 - 25 minutes (excluding looting and salvaging - I do it with Noctis after ) I thought to try out Raven but havn't done yet.
Horiz Rin School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 17	Posted - 2016.08.25 11:19:28 - [23] - Quote 'scuse the newb question - isn't it pointless fitting more than 3 of the same item because of stacking penalties?
Solecist Project 32463	Posted - 2016.08.25 11:26:34 - [24] - Quote Horiz Rin wrote: 'scuse the newb question - isn't it pointless fitting more than 3 of the same item because of stacking penalties? There once was a great, i personally think the greatest, highsec wardeccer named Cannibal Kane. He decced everyone, including bigger groups and usually only relied on a scouting alt. This man was so great, he didn't even use a fitting tool. He used the ingame tool only! This man was so great, the pirate king Psychotik Monk called him the end boss of highsec. I remember him talking about fitting once, telling us about how he fits his ship. He, too, argued that fitting a third module most often is a waste ... ... and how other options can add more than the penalized bonus of a third module. He would have agreed with you. But in this case the low slot modules aren't penalized, so it's okay. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia 8 Golden Rules of EVE
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 646	Posted - 2016.08.25 11:53:59 - [25] - Quote Some good advice, but I'll throw in my 2 cents for the OP: #1) You probably can't right now, but you need to work on building up SP so you can convert low-slot modules to damage...and/or eventually upgrade to the machariel w/ autocannons. Trust me it will help a lot. Right now your DPS is frankly cringe-worthy compared to the serious missioners who make the "big money" - but that is OK, you are young, just keep it in mind and work on it. #2) If you want max isk/hour never stop to loot or salvage. If some day you have a ship that can do a little of it as you go - great. but your max isk/hour comes from doing missions for a corp with a good LP store (see links posted earlier - can't go wrong with Sisters of EVE though if all else fails) - and then blitzing the missions as fast as possible. So actually read the mission description (or find a guide if you must), and just do the bare minimum to complete the mission. Turn it in for the LP reward, get the next one, and repeat. As others have said, for max isk/hour you need to be running max missions/hour. The LP rewards are much more consistent/reliable than the bounties or the loot. The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Knitram Relik Atomic Amish 61	Posted - 2016.08.25 15:30:24 - [26] - Quote Wroth 10 manufacturing slots you can easily make 20 million an hour, 24/7. Of course you don't realize the profit until your item sells.
Beazal Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 6	Posted - 2016.08.25 18:33:38 - [27] - Quote Ratting anoms in Sov. null with 12m SP and a VNI, I get about 15-20m ticks. I never end up with 3 20M ticks in a row, so let's say I make 45-55m/hr. This is with 600DPS and Faction T1 Drones, so it can only go up from here. I used to run L4 missions, and I never would again. It made me quit EVE multiple times. Memorizing the best missions, what damage types, etc etc; Too much crap to deal with. Now I log in, fight the same damn rats with the same damn damage types every-day, don't have to run to turn anything in, etc. Get to break up the monotony when people invade the system and do some PVP. You shouldn't worry about what you're making an hour, and instead find what you actually want to do in EVE. Playing for Plex isn't fun for most people. For me, it ended up being fleet PVP, aka I need 2.5m per T1 frigate, and maybe 20-30m if a blingy doctrine is called. Beyond that, if I feel like dumping a chunk of isk, I'll buy a skill injector. It's also just time/effort. Say I make 50m/hr, so it takes 12 hours to make 600m for my goal of skill injector. I can totally sit at home, do schoolwork, play other games, watch TV while semi-AFKing anoms. I'd rather AFK anoms for 50m than actively do something for 100m. I could, if I felt like it, AFK-anoms for 12 hours a day = 600m/day = 4.2b a week = 17b a month. Finding an activity that you can use a second monitor, click a few things an hour, is better than making tons of isk actively for some people (like me).
Thomas Lot Astrocomical Warped Intentions 38	Posted - 2016.08.25 18:49:14 - [28] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour VNI (Vexor Navy Issue) in null anoms -- Forsaken Hubs, Hubs, Havens are the best for time invested. A lot of it is skill based. Drone skills at 4, not that hard or long to do, is a minimum skill. Nav skills, Ship skill, Shield skills. Minimum 2 month train to be competent. This will net you about 15-20 Mil per tick at minimum skill level, 20-25 per tick at solid skill level. (A tick is a 20 minute time period between wallet blinks.)
Solecist Project 32492	Posted - 2016.08.25 18:54:00 - [29] - Quote Thomas Lot wrote: Biohazard NML wrote: Hello I've returned to EvE Online after about 2 yers - I have 9 mil SP character and try to find my income source in game. I have one major problem - i can't reach above 15 - 20 milion ISL / hour income. I've tried L4 missions (loot + salvage + bounty), mining (boring like hell), gas harvesting in WH (like mining), C1 WH Solo anomalies. Well people are able to payout for game time through plexes (1b ISK) and still it is little marigin of their income and I can't break the magic barrier of in most 20M ISK / hour. What i'm doing wrong ? The worst thing is that whenever I find some interesting activity and at the beginning it looks like I've finally found it, when I do the maths it's 15 - 20 M ISK / hour VNI (Vexor Navy Issue) in null anoms -- Forsaken Hubs, Hubs, Havens are the best for time invested. A lot of it is skill based. Drone skills at 4, not that hard or long to do, is a minimum skill. Nav skills, Ship skill, Shield skills. Minimum 2 month train to be competent. This will net you about 15-20 Mil per tick at minimum skill level, 20-25 per tick at solid skill level. (A tick is a 20 minute time period between wallet blinks.) I'm sorry for asking, but can you give me a short summary what the VNI does better than the regular one? I know my Vexor, that's fine. Just the other one I don't at all. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia 8 Golden Rules of EVE
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.25 19:39:35 - [30] - Quote Beazal wrote: You shouldn't worry about what you're making an hour, and instead find what you actually want to do in EVE. Well i don't play for 'to have a lot of ISK ' but to payout bills - ship loses etc ...
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.25 19:50:47 - [31] - Quote Knitram Relik wrote: Wroth 10 manufacturing slots you can easily make 20 million an hour, 24/7. Of course you don't realize the profit until your item sells. Yes, i know, but selling = sitting in Jita and modyfying sell orders every 5 mins for cup of hours
Solecist Project 32497	Posted - 2016.08.25 20:30:27 - [32] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Knitram Relik wrote: Wroth 10 manufacturing slots you can easily make 20 million an hour, 24/7. Of course you don't realize the profit until your item sells. Yes, i know, but selling = sitting in Jita and modyfying sell orders every 5 mins for cup of hours Or you do it off the main paths, drop it and forget it. Plus you can charge a higher price. People often forget that jita isn't the be all end all of trading. There's lots of people everywhere else, too. A good bunch of the rich ones just drop and forget ... ... because they know that prices tend to fluctuate for certain items ... ... so it'll sell anyway. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia 8 Golden Rules of EVE
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 660	Posted - 2016.08.25 20:48:23 - [33] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: I'm sorry for asking, but can you give me a short summary what the VNI does better than the regular one? I know my Vexor, that's fine. Just the other one I don't at all. The VNI essentially does everything the vexor does - but a bit better. It has a few extra slots, more cpu/pg, a bigger drone bay, and more drone bandwidth. I believe it is also a little faster. So basically it tanks twice as much, deals more dps (vs large targets or at range) due to being able to field 5 heavy drones/sentry drones, and it is just a better ship in general. That being said - I still love my underrated little vexor. The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Ion Kirst KIRSTONE ALLIANCE 202	Posted - 2016.08.25 21:10:19 - [34] - Quote Biohazard, As was mentioned before. you need some damage mods in the lows. Missions must painfully take forever. With those cap flux coils and 3xCCCs it looks like your trying to perma-run your shield booster. Don't do that. Put in at least 3 damage mods, maybe a Damage control, and a tracking mod. Pulse your shield booster when needed. If needed replace the AB with a MJD to be able to escape. Your volley is very very low, and your DPS (including drones?) is bleak. Some one mentioned that maybe it's too early for you to be doing L4s. That may be true. IMHO I believe that you don't have good support skills to fly a Maelstrom effectively. -Kirst Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Knitram Relik Atomic Amish 61	Posted - 2016.08.25 23:48:13 - [35] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Knitram Relik wrote: Wroth 10 manufacturing slots you can easily make 20 million an hour, 24/7. Of course you don't realize the profit until your item sells. Yes, i know, but selling = sitting in Jita and modyfying sell orders every 5 mins for cup of hours Not even close. I modify my order twice a day. Once before I leave for work and once when I get home. Usually I'll sell one or two items but once every couple of days someone buys my whole stack. Instant profit. [WTS] - Signature. 500 mil ISK
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 896	Posted - 2016.08.26 00:41:20 - [36] - Quote March rabbit wrote: huffing gas in 0.0 gives about 90mil/hour (1000 units of gas selling for 90k pu for like 1:06 hour). And it's about 1-2 weeks of training to prospect and t2 gas huffer. I'm pretty sure gas in WHs worth more? Or isn't it? Depends what gas you're huffing. High class C5 & C6 gas sites containing C320 and C540 are absolutely worth huffing out. In fact, whenever I find a Instrumental Core Reservoir, I TRY to huff it out twice. Once before Downtime (leaving the smaller cloud alone) and once after DT (huff the lot). The not-inconsiderable amount of blue loot and salvage is just an added extra (requiring battleships to clear out). A low class site containing C60 gas I wouldn't even bother fully probing down. For 0.0 and lowsec gas, the Cytoserocin is generally worthwhile while Mykoserocin gas is much less worthwhile. Fuzzworks has a handy dandy ISK/m^3 page for gas huffing, including a metric for ISK/Venture load. Solecist Project wrote: I'm sorry for asking, but can you give me a short summary what the VNI does better than the regular one? I know my Vexor, that's fine. Just the other one I don't at all. The VNI can field a full flight of heavy drones, has an extra Low Slot, 25m/s faster base speed, 550 extra base shields and 1,000 extra base armour and structure along with 10 flops of extra CPU and 50GJ more cap. The VNI loses the medium hybrid turret bonus for levels of Gal Cruiser in favour of a drone tracking and speed bonus. But it's mostly the Drone Bandwidth. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.26 05:46:48 - [37] - Quote Ion Kirst wrote: Biohazard, Your volley is very very low, and your DPS (including drones?) is bleak. Some one mentioned that maybe it's too early for you to be doing L4s. That may be true. IMHO I believe that you don't have good support skills to fly a Maelstrom effectively. -Kirst Proper skills are on the run (large artilery specialization, sharpsooting etc...), you're probably right - it's too early form me, meantime i'll run L2 - L3 to gain access to L4 at worthy corps. Well when I was in academy corp it was siad "Don't go into Battleship just because you have skills for ... (the same with T3 Tengu)" - and now i see it was all true.
Major Trant 287 Marine Regiment 1504	Posted - 2016.08.26 12:26:20 - [38] - Quote I recently started running incursions which are arguably the best Isk generators in game. The money is good, but prior to running I'd heard figures of 250, 300, even 400M Isk per hour stated for the activity. As with all new activities there is a period of learning. But by Saturday (13th Aug) I had it all nailed and went for it. I had joined the incursion community TVP who run a really slick operation. I logged on right after downtime and got straight into their HQ fleet (the best type of Incursion sites). I then ran with them for 11 hours solid. It was a perfect run, no delays, seemless turn over of 5 or 6 competent FCs, no interference, no losses, ammunition replen on the site gates, bio breaks taken during the final 2 minute structure bash on TPPH sites. I finally crawled away exhaused after running 52 sites. Payout - each site paid 31.5M Isk and 7000 Concord LP. The Concord LP store is not a great one, but I've found an item that has a decent turnover and doesn't require too much 0.01 Isk play, which can net about 700 Isk per LP. And before anyone says that is where I went wrong, that is more BS - I've been through that store with a fine tooth comb and yes on paper it is possible to get a better return, but only with a dedicated trading alt in Jita playing the 0.01 Isk game until your eyes bleed. Therefore: . 31.5M Isk payout x 52 sites = 1,638M Isk. . 7000 LP x 52 sites = 364,000 LP x 700 Isk = 254.8M Isk. . Final Total: 1,638M Isk payout + 254.8M Isk LP value = 1,892.8M Isk. Operating expenses - 15M Insurance to TVP, 52M Tip to TVP, 8M Ammunition = 75M Net Profit 1,892.8M - 75M = 1,817.8M / 11 = 165.25M per hour. It is good money, but nowhere near as good as the hype says it is and thats without allowing any time to actually convert the LP to Isk or for Corp tax. But it is worst than that. That was a perfect run with no waiting. Sometimes I'm waiting an hour or more before getting the invite to fleet. Sometimes there is a hiccup and the fleet is stood down for a period. Somethimes there is a competing Incurusion fleet and you are forced to run more of the less optimal TPPH sites. Every now and again, you have to upsticks and haul your operation 15 or 20 jumps to the next Incursion system. Are Incursions easy money - yes but you do have to concentrate and it is intense. You have about 3 seconds to hit the broadcast button when the room aggro switches to you. After that 11 hour stint, it took me a week to be able to stomach another attempt and since then I've never tried longer than 3 hours at a time. Finally of course, I should mention the initial outlay. After about 35 hours of pure site running, not counting delays. I've made around 5.7 Billion Isk, which is about 2.3 Billion short of my initial outlay. Around 4B went into the ship and another 4B into my head. I have 120M SP and on paper with this setup can put out about 2500 DPS (without heat). The whole point of this post is to show that there is a lot of BS about how much various activities can net. People exaggerate, I don't really know why, maybe to justify why they are doing a certain activity, maybe to wind others up, maybe to encourage others to join them in an activity. But in every activity I've done, and I've done a lot, I've never made the money that the hype claims can be made, not even when operating with the optimal setup for that activity. As a rule of thumb, divide by 2 anything people (other than me) claim about Isk per hour and then allow for setup costs and learning time in addition, nevermind any sub-optimal setup you might be running.
Vladof Alduin The Graduates The Initiative. 10	Posted - 2016.08.28 13:08:34 - [39] - Quote 1. Join a PROPER nullsec corp. 2. Train T2 Relic Analyzer + Cov ops frigate 3. Run Relic sites until you have 1bil+ (Or good gas site with t2 mining frigate) 4. Buy Ishtar/tengu for null sec combat sites 5. Run nullsec combat sites (Gallente > Caldari > Minmatar > Amarr) 6. Repeat both activities for 30 days 7. Quickly train a scanner+tengu alt with injectors (or just get rid of mining skills you have) 8. Scan and run relic sites with one toon, run combat sites with the other or using both 9.???? 10. Enjoy 25bil+/month For the message above; lol incursions are literally full time thrash jobs of eve i would prefer paying 15$ rather than running them
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 909	Posted - 2016.08.29 03:04:59 - [40] - Quote Major Trant wrote: Finally of course, I should mention the initial outlay. After about 35 hours of pure site running, not counting delays. I've made around 5.7 Billion Isk, which is about 2.3 Billion short of my initial outlay. Around 4B went into the ship and another 4B into my head. I have 120M SP and on paper with this setup can put out about 2500 DPS (without heat). The hell kind of Autism Chariot and Plug Set are we talking about here? Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18027	Posted - 2016.08.29 07:28:19 - [41] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: Ion Kirst wrote: What ship were you using? What was it's fit? How are your SPs allocated? (what are your strengths, missiles or turrets?) -Kirst I fly Maelstrom here's fit: [Maelstrom, L4 Misjonarz Speed copy] Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Mark I Compact Capacitor Flux Coil Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I X-Large Shield Booster II 100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Titanium Sabot L Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 EMP L x320 Damage I do: Volley: 2.5k DPS: 231 (Including drones) 1 mission ~ 20 - 25 minutes (excluding looting and salvaging - I do it with Noctis after ) I thought to try out Raven but havn't done yet. I see the problem. Arty is a very slow weapon and the lack of gyros is going to hurt too. Ok I have an idea, get yourself into a mach as fast as you can and then follow this guide. Its relatively safe and lets you practice getting used to blitzing missions.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.29 08:58:29 - [42] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ok I have an idea, get yourself into a mach as fast as you can and then follow this guide. Its relatively safe and lets you practice getting used to blitzing missions. Mach isn't problem - 2 days from now, price ... well I could buy it but then i'd broke the rule "Never fly anything you can't afford to lose". I know already that Machariel is one of the best L4 Blitzer. Thanks for link to guide - I'll do the maths and probably go for Machariel anyway - no risk no fun they say :)
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.29 10:51:45 - [43] - Quote I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit: [Maelstrom, L4 copy] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Thermal Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Ionic Field Accelerator I Ionic Field Accelerator I 500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Valkyrie II x5 With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 310	Posted - 2016.08.29 12:52:12 - [44] - Quote I make about 8-10 mil isk a tick ninja belt ratting crappy systems( low true sec and few belts) in a stratios. 20 mil a tick ratting hubs in a rattlesnake, nearly 30 mil a tick ratting havens in a snake. Exploration where i currently live is crap( CCPLS balance exploration sites between the factions) but in a certain factions space i was making a bil isk in exploration in about 4 hours. Thats 4 hours of hunting, scanning, and hacking and NOT cherry picking. You can pretty much make 30 mil plus an hour accidentally doing any pve in null. High sec is pretty much a waste of time for making isk unless you are pretty new( under 5 mil sp) . You have to deal with gankers, baiters, thieves, and wardeccers while trying to make crap isk doing missions. Dont have any of that in null. Just check local, check intel, undock, warp to anom, kill stuff, collect a check every 20 mins.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 310	Posted - 2016.08.29 13:03:16 - [45] - Quote Biohazard NML wrote: I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit: [Maelstrom, L4 copy] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Thermal Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Ionic Field Accelerator I Ionic Field Accelerator I 500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Valkyrie II x5 With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo Step 1: Join a null corp Step 2: Buy a VNI, with decent drone skills( you can train up in about a week to all level 4 drone skills) you will put out 600-700 dps. Entire fit will cost 90-110 mil with faction heavies( or t2 heavies if you can use) Step 3: Run Havens. Step 4: Profit Step 5: Pay off the VNI in about 4 havens( should take you 2-3 hours in a VNI) Step 6: More profits
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 677	Posted - 2016.08.29 13:40:33 - [46] - Quote Roenok Baalnorn wrote: Biohazard NML wrote: I've done cup of skills and new fit - can you tell me what do you think about this fit: [Maelstrom, L4 copy] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Thermal Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Ionic Field Accelerator I Ionic Field Accelerator I 500MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Processor Overclocking Unit I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Valkyrie II x5 With this I've get 580 HP/s shield recharge (1m10s capa) 646 DPS (drone dmg included) / 728 DPS when I use republic fleet ammo Step 1: Join a null corp Step 2: Buy a VNI, with decent drone skills( you can train up in about a week to all level 4 drone skills) you will put out 600-700 dps. Entire fit will cost 90-110 mil with faction heavies( or t2 heavies if you can use) Step 3: Run Havens. Step 4: Profit Step 5: Pay off the VNI in about 4 havens( should take you 2-3 hours in a VNI) Step 6: More profits Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income? The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14502	Posted - 2016.08.29 13:43:54 - [47] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income? ??? How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour?
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 678	Posted - 2016.08.29 13:54:21 - [48] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income? ??? How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour? Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship: 90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - after he skills up,etc. It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch. The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Syna Anima SYNDAX CORPORATION Axiom Vocation Alliance 56	Posted - 2016.08.29 15:10:42 - [49] - Quote If I were you I'd move to 0.0 asap. Can easily get to 60 mil/h on a 600+ DPS sentry II domi. Cheap, reliable. After that, you can try carrier ratting, that will boost your income. Alternatively, do incursions or trade. A good trader in a staging system for a big alliance in one of the 0.0 hubs can make billions/month. You only have to do some jumps and update orders from time to time. If you trade, making ISK while doing PVP is best. Actually probably when you sleep is better, you wake up and your wallet is blinking at you. Gÿà Join us today! Gÿà
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14502	Posted - 2016.08.29 15:26:19 - [50] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income? ??? How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour? Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship: 90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - after he skills up,etc. It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch. Must be some kind of typo on his part. A VNI will get you 13-15 mil minimum every 20 minutes at level 4 skills (I've had as high as 19 mil) in named hubs (forsaken, forlorn) and Havens. At a minimum that's about double what the OP says he makes. All for training a ship and drone skills for maybe a couple weeks.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 569	Posted - 2016.08.29 15:29:37 - [51] - Quote I made 35m to 50m ISK/hr running L4 missions in a Gila. (Not counting the time and effort to build and sell the faction items from the LP store.) I made 1b ISK/wk doing station trading which required about 40min/day, so that was about 214m ISK/hr. I make 45m to 65m ISK/hr running Hubs and such in a Rattlesnake. (Irony: the first day I was using my first Rattlesnnake, I landed in a site with a dread rat, did not warp out soon enough, and lost the Rattlesnake. Welp.)
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 310	Posted - 2016.08.29 15:51:57 - [52] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Everyone keeps suggesting this everywhere...but the OP is already making 20m isk/hour - why go to all the extra effort for roughly the same income? ??? How is 50-60 mil per hour (in a less skill intensive and less expensive ship) the same as 20 mil per hour? Using Roenok's estimate that it will take 3 hours to make back the 90 mil spent on the ship: 90 mil in 3 hours is only 30 mil/hour - after he skills up,etc. It isn't significantly better than what he was making in his horribly underskilled battleship grinding L4s at a snail's pace....and it requires him dumping all of the skill training he has to train a ship that uses a different weapons system, different tank, etc - basically telling him to start over from scratch. I will clarify. I can run a haven in snake CASUALLY( this word is very important) in less than 1 tick. About 18 minutes actually from undock to warp back to dock depending on where it is system and i rat in a large system. A newer player but with decent skills should be able to run the same haven in about 25-30 min. A haven pays around 25 mil in bounty give or take. So that is 50 mil an hour. Unlike most people here, i give realistic numbers not optimal efficiency. So worse case scenario with screwing around it should take you no more than 3 hours to make 100 mil with a 9 mil SP character running havens in a VNI. And if you are trying you can probably make 50-60 mil an hour. I make 8-10 mil a tick Thats 25-30 mil hr, screwing around belt ratting crappy pipe systems for ADM. in a stratios...with only drones for weapons. I get interrupted by neuts/hostiles at least 2-3 times an hour and my stratios gets 200 dps less than i could get out of a VNI. Also Drones are a weapon system that everyone should have regardless of what race you fly because every race uses drones and your not utilizing that extra dps. And you dont armor tank a VNI. The lows should be pretty much all drone stuff, The mids should be a prop, possibly a drone nav to increase drone velocity, and some shield mods to give you a buffer for those random hits. The highs should have nothing but a drone link for extra range.
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 679	Posted - 2016.08.29 16:12:25 - [53] - Quote I am well aware that Havens are essentially single-pocket L4 combat missions without LP rewards, and thus have a very similar level of income, yes. So what? How does that make them better for the specific player in question? Also - yes, everyone needs some drone skills. But to be efficient with a vexor navy issue (or rattlesnake) you need t2 heavy drones - these are not needed for anything but actual drone boats - and they take just as long to train as any other battleship class weapons system - so his time might be better spend perfecting the system he has already chosen... The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14502	Posted - 2016.08.29 16:25:49 - [54] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: I am well aware that Havens are essentially single-pocket L4 combat missions without LP rewards, and thus have a very similar level of income, yes. So what? How does that make them better for the specific player in question? Ok, you are having some reading comprehension issues today. Here Roenok Baalnorn wrote: A newer player but with decent skills should be able to run the same haven in about 25-30 min. A haven pays around 25 mil in bounty give or take. So that is 50 mil an hour. The name of this thread is "Magic barrier of 20M ISK / 1h what i'm doing wrong ?" How is any of this hard to understand? Quote: Also - yes, everyone needs some drone skills. But to be efficient with a vexor navy issue (or rattlesnake) you need t2 heavy drones - these are not needed for anything but actual drone boats - and they take just as long to train as any other battleship class weapons system - so his time might be better spend perfecting the system he has already chosen... This part demonstrates you just don't understand (it seems like you haven't had much PVE experience). A VNI is a short train to all 4s in relevant skills. It would take way WAY longer to get a minmatar gun BS to the level where it could match a VNI in terms of isk making potential. This is why multiple people (who do have PVE experience) are saying the same thing (as you noted in your post, yes almost everyone is giving similar advice). Also, the tech2 drone thing if way off base, Faction drones are more than acceptable for a new player. If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom. Are you going to offer anything useful to the OP or are you going to nitpick those that are?
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18033	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:08:04 - [55] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom. Gotta disagree on the cross training into the domi, the best ship is the mach not only because its very good at missions but also because its a rather quick train to get into as he already has the matari battleship and autocannon skills trained. Swapping out to the tempest could be an option here.
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 679	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:24:47 - [56] - Quote If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now... What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them TO THE OP... Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains: The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so why should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now? Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready. And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them... I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even... I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make the same amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer. The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 18033	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:29:45 - [57] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now... What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them TO THE OP... Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains: The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so why should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now? Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready. And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them... I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even... I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make the same amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer. Now now play nice.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14509	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:36:33 - [58] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: If you throw the OP into a haven right now with his current skills he'll be lucky to get the same isk he is making now... What some other theoretical player with the right skills/ship/fit makes is irrelevant if you insist on comparing them TO THE OP... Quibbling about details for drones/etc aside, my core point remains: The player you are talking about will make just as much if not more running L4 missions in high sec as they will running havens in 0.0 - so why should the OP go do the havens instead of just doing the same thing right where he is now? One of the things i've always wondered about in general is why people choose to talk about things they don't know about. I mean it's obvious that you don't, and yet you want to argue with people who do? I'm sorry but that's dumb. The question was isk per hour. People who know something about PVE have told him an easy way to break the barrier he is experiencing (a cheaper and easy to train for VNI in an upgraded null system). Quote: Additionally - since the OP is running L4s in his maelstrom and not dieing - he is obviously close to having the skills to fly it properly - he just needs more DPS related skills (and eventually an upgrade to the machariel)... So your whining about how long it takes to train into is irrelevant - he has already put in most of the training time. As Baltec has already pointed out he can easily upgrade into the machariel any time he is ready. And of course T1/Faction drones can be used - just like meta 4 guns can be used on a battleship... But good luck getting 60m isk per hour with them... I never said Havens weren't good isk - I said they are essentially the same as L4s for income - the bounties are a bit more accessible since they are all single-pocket - and since they give no LP at all, it comes out pretty much exactly even... I just asked why the OP should throw away everything he has done and pretend he just started EVE today just to go out there and make the same amount of isk as he is almost trained to make in high-sec... And you have yet to give me a good answer. It's been explained to you by people who know, it's not the same amount of isk, it's more isk for a short (1-2 week) train. I can't give you a good answer if you don't have enough knowledge about PVE to understand what I'm saying to you (and you demonstrated your ignorance when talking about tech2 drones, this is not 2012 where tech2 heavy drones are the end all and be all). you keep demonstrating that you don't, which makes your decision to post in a thread about PVE issues really, well, dumb. I'll ask again, are you going to offer anything useful to the OP, or are you going to continue to defensively nitpick issues you don't know about?
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 679	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:40:43 - [59] - Quote So just to clarify - you are saying that the only valid form of PvE is 0.0 havens - and anybody doing any PvE other than that is an idiot because they could be making significantly more isk much easier doing 0.0 havens? I may not know a lot about PvE - but I know that is ****ing stupid. If it is true, then EVE is a lot more broken than I thought it was. edit: And I already gave the OP my useful advice ages ago - yes I've gotten sidetracked wondering why people want him to start over on an entirely new path seeminly at random now... The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14509	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:42:26 - [60] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: If the OP wants to stay in high sec, a drone ship like the Domi or Gila are better choices than what he uses. The Domi is also a relatively short train and the Gila is ridiculous easy to train into. The Gila is only an ok lvl 4 ship, but it's still better than a maelstrom. Gotta disagree on the cross training into the domi, the best ship is the mach not only because its very good at missions but also because its a rather quick train to get into as he already has the matari battleship and autocannon skills trained. Swapping out to the tempest could be an option here. A mach is an ok idea. On balance there is a reason why so many people suggest drone ships for newish player PVE. A Mach in the hands of a new player can still go boom as they learn lvl 4 missioning, a Domi is an all rounder type ship that is much more forgiving of screw ups like shooting the wrong trigger. If he HAS to stay with projectiles, ok sure, Mach it is (Tempest? just no), and eventually he can get to a good isk level with it if he's willing to run for SOE (or Thukker).
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14511	Posted - 2016.08.29 17:55:27 - [61] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So just to clarify - you are saying that the only valid form of PvE is 0.0 havens - and anybody doing any PvE other than that is an idiot because they could be making significantly more isk much easier doing 0.0 havens? No one said anything like that. We are offering a newish PVEr a more simple way to break is 20 mil isk per hour barrier. there are other ways and you've seen some of those suggestions too. If this were an established PVEr (not like he'd be here asking if he was) then we'd be saying "try the level 3 blitz mach" or some such. Quote: I may not know a lot about PvE - but I know that is **ing stupid. If it is true, then EVE is a lot more broken than I thought it was. Good thing no one is saying that. Quote:** edit: And I already gave the OP my useful advice ages ago - yes I've gotten sidetracked wondering why people want him to start over on an entirely new path seeminly at random now... I think what you should have done is say "I don't know much about PVE, let me ask why they think that way" and the tone of this part of the discussion would be different. People are suggesting VNI with lvl 4 easy train skills and faction drones in null sec because that is the best start a new player can get and therefore may be the easiest path for him. It's a paradoxical situation: High Sec is a much better place to earn isk for an experienced PVE player with an expensive sub-capital ship like the Machariel. But null sec is the easiest place for a new player in EVE to make isk in because anomalies can be done with speed/buffer tanked drone cruisers. It should be the other way around, but it's not, null is a great place for new kids with VNIs (or Oracles with Best Named guns in blood/sansha space) to start out in PVE.
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 679	Posted - 2016.08.29 18:07:25 - [62] - Quote Well I'll leave all you PvEers to argue amongst yourselves I suppose... Though really of course you should all stop PvEing for money and start PvP - it is the best income in the game. Using the time-honoured PvE Player's standard of exaggerating income based on the highest bounty tick I've ever seen and extrapolating that for a full hour and calling that my "average isk/hour" - I can confidently state that as a fair comparison you could be making 45 billion isk per hour, just like me declaring wars solo. So you all clearly suck at this (This is based on a 1.5b isk drop from a navy raven which took about 45 seconds to kill - I even included 1.25 minutes to loot the wreck, wait out my combat timer, and dock up - just to be sporting about it) o7 The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Soel Reit Dambusters 617 Sq 174	Posted - 2016.08.29 18:18:30 - [63] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: I can confidently state that as a fair comparison you could be making 45 billion isk per hour, just like me declaring wars solo. with my father's credit card i can do way more than that just saying
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 311	Posted - 2016.08.29 18:45:12 - [64] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: I am well aware that Havens are essentially single-pocket L4 combat missions without LP rewards, and thus have a very similar level of income, yes. So what? How does that make them better for the specific player in question? Also - yes, everyone needs some drone skills. But to be efficient with a vexor navy issue (or rattlesnake) you need t2 heavy drones - these are not needed for anything but actual drone boats - and they take just as long to train as any other battleship class weapons system - so his time might be better spend perfecting the system he has already chosen... * It might take a day to train into heavy drones decently well, if you can already use t2 med( which by the OP fit he can). Faction heavies do a bit less dps but have better tracking and significantly more HP than the t2 versions. * L4 missions do not pay the same as running havens. They might in theory but not in application. The first problem with L4 missions is that you get random missions. I can run havens all day long and consistently get the same amount every tick, give or take a few million. I will break this down for you... If im running L4 missions in a BS this is what that looks like. 1) Accept mission. 2) change resist and ammo for rat type 3) Undock and head to mission. If im lucky...and im probably not, the mission will be in this system but its probably in the system next door and i may have to jump two gates... in my slow as molasses BS. 4) Enter mission deadspace.... Oh look rats to my left at 40 Km, rats in front of me at 60 KM, rats to right at 50 KM. Accel gate 20 KM in front of me. 5) Put puting around chasing my rats down 6) Back to the gate 7) repeat steps 4-6 for X amount of rooms. 8) Possibly destroy some random structure or loot a random wreck. 9 ) Heading home...Scotty max warp speed of 2 AU! Seriously i can peddle a bike faster than this up hill in the snow. 10) Dock up, turn mission in, get paid. 11) UGHH different faction for this mission. Swap stuff out. 12) repeat Running havens in VNI: 1) Check local - all blue 2) check intel - no activity in pocket 3) Faffing around in the dock to get ready to go kill stuff - nope dont need to talk to someone, change resist, load different ammo...or ammo at all. 4) Undock bring up scanner 5) Warp to haven 6) Launch drones , target stuff, start moving 7) Pew pew...pew pew...pew pew pew. 8) recall drones while aligning to the next haven 9) Warp 10) repeat steps 6 through 9 until thoroughly bored, tired, hungry, or a hostile becomes a threat. Mission running is the least efficient way to make isk killing rats. There is far to much faffing involved. When your trying to make isk off rats, you want as much time spent actively shoot rats as possible. Missions you have to spend half your time faffing around with other BS just to kill the rats. Of course their is the LP all the high bears claim is extra income. Sure if you want to spend even more time faffing around with that. I make more isk in null accidentally, than most L4 mission runners make on purpose.
Dirty Forum Alt Forum Alts Anonymous 680	Posted - 2016.08.29 18:53:24 - [65] - Quote So just out of curiosity - how many haven sites are there at a time? If all of the high-sec mission runners took you up on your advice and came out there - would there be enough for everybody? Also - are those the ones the big 0.0 groups farm with carrier-bots for RMT? The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 311	Posted - 2016.08.29 19:10:01 - [66] - Quote Dirty Forum Alt wrote: So just out of curiosity - how many haven sites are there at a time? If all of the high-sec mission runners took you up on your advice and came out there - would there be enough for everybody? Also - are those the ones the big 0.0 groups farm with carrier-bots for RMT? Yes. Most of null is undeveloped. I rat a high true sec system. It will spawn anywhere from 10-20 havens continuously plus half a dozen or so sanctums. The system i rat the most has ~40 combat anoms at any one time and they pretty much respawn instantly as soon as they despawn. At peak in my system, there will be 80 plus people using it, at least half of those are ratting and i almost never warp in on someone elses haven. And if it gets crowded, some of us will just move to another system and have the leaders develop it. We actually have a few systems that are fully or partially developed for ratting. Ratting before IHUBs use to be a pain because it was a lot of competition for everything and hunting stuff down... as much faffing as mission running. Ihubs were basically a license to print isk. A lot of times ill run hubs because i cant be bothered doing the extra 5 minutes it takes to do a haven. Sometimes ill run trash anoms just for a change of pace. Trash anoms, to me, are forsaken, hidden, etc. They have a lot of small trash and t2 ships in them, so they are a bigger pain to run.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2718	Posted - 2016.08.29 19:50:15 - [67] - Quote The problem here is obviously that the basic formula is completely wrong. You are looking for ISK/h ? Now divide it by ISK and multiply with FUN which is actually the real magic barrier in EVE you should break. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Blaqwidow Into Darkness 0	Posted - 2016.08.30 15:08:13 - [68] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: The problem here is obviously that the basic formula is completely wrong. You are looking for ISK/h ? Now divide it by ISK and multiply with FUN which is actually the real magic barrier in EVE you should break. You got me wrong. It's not about ISK, it's about doing something in effective way - ISK per hour isn't most important thing in EvE in my opinion - but I read a lot of guides people say that they can earn even 1B ISK a day. So if i can only 20M / hour - I wonder what I do wrong.
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.30 15:09:38 - [69] - Quote Blaqwidow is my alt - I didn't noticed it changed - post above is mine.
Roenok Baalnorn Sadistically Sinister 312	Posted - 2016.08.30 16:52:56 - [70] - Quote Blaqwidow wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: The problem here is obviously that the basic formula is completely wrong. You are looking for ISK/h ? Now divide it by ISK and multiply with FUN which is actually the real magic barrier in EVE you should break. You got me wrong. It's not about ISK, it's about doing something in effective way - ISK per hour isn't most important thing in EvE in my opinion - but I read a lot of guides people say that they can earn even 1B ISK a day. So if i can only 20M / hour - I wonder what I do wrong. You can earn 1 bil isk a say.... its going to be almost impossible as a new player and it requires either a lot of luck, a lot of grinding, or a lot of investment as a veteran player. Most people and guides give you the best case scenario and often exaggerate the isk/ hr ratio. Honestly the only thing in high sec, that i know of that pays half decent is incursions and L5 missions and both are still quite a bit of effort for what they pay compared to other methods. If you want to increase you efficiency at say missions... first make sure you are doing security missions. Then work yourself up to level 4. Ideally you want to max your dps with the min amount of tank required so you can kill everything as fast as possible. And thats pretty much it. But honestly, its a much bigger pain to be efficient in missions than it is in pretty much any other profession.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 368	Posted - 2016.08.30 19:03:49 - [71] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: The problem here is obviously that the basic formula is completely wrong. You are looking for ISK/h ? Now divide it by ISK and multiply with FUN which is actually the real magic barrier in EVE you should break. No, he's got it right. (ISK/10000000 + times he fell asleep in his chair)/hour = score of how correctly he's playigng EVE. A signature :o
Biohazard NML Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.08.30 19:26:37 - [72] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: The problem here is obviously that the basic formula is completely wrong. You are looking for ISK/h ? Now divide it by ISK and multiply with FUN which is actually the real magic barrier in EVE you should break. No, he's got it right. (ISK/10000000 + times he fell asleep in his chair)/hour = score of how correctly he's playigng EVE. That's exactly the point of my counting ISK per hour
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 368	Posted - 2016.08.30 21:04:51 - [73] - Quote I'm only half joking. When you've seen all the L4s enough, you're going to at least want to fall asleep in your chair. A signature :o

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