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BigBadToughGuy
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Posted - 2003.12.20 08:14:00 -
[31]
Hey Skillz, I'm guessing your reading some fiction on Russian ships. Name one Russian vessel that can go over 15 knots without the pressure from the bow wave caving in it's rusted hull, other than the icebreakers.
Don't hate us because the Russians couldn't afford to keep up with our Navy. We deploy to the North Atlantic regulary, we even earn our "Blue Nose" certificate for the cruise.
If you have any doubts as to the quality of American warships, take a look at the damage sustained by the USS Forestal, USS Enterprise and most of all the USS Cole. These ships returned to active duty and other than the retired Forestal, are still on active duty.
Keeping the entire world safe...go Navy!!!
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NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.12.20 08:24:00 -
[32]
From a pure gaming viewpoint and to be a simple as possible:
Bigger is slower - the slower it is the bigger it seems.
Smaller is faster.
Bigger is louder.
Smaller is quieter.
Bigger is stonger.
Smaller is weaker.
Doesn't mean it's always right - but more often than not, it's how it works.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2003.12.20 09:17:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
Just my .02 isk on the speed nerf. 
Krondus
You want realism and then you bring up present day ship speeds?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.20 11:25:00 -
[34]
Can we please quit with the arguments over whose Navy is the best? You don't have to listen to me, but if you don't, you'll get the same request in the form of an order, from a board moderator, and the thread will be locked and deleted.
Talking about whether or not this subject should be relevant to EVE, is relevant to EVE. Talking about the subject itself, and discussing who has the more powerful/faster ships, is not, and we all know how strict the rules in here are.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.12.20 11:56:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Adaptation is supposed to be one of the defining attributes of Human Beings. Any animal can be stubborn.
Yes, adaptation is good. But we should adapt to new things and conditions inside the logic of the game, not changing rules. We are talking here about game rules that change everytime someone cries out loud that something is uber, unfair, etc etc etc.
If these changes are unavoidable, then make it slowly. One day you log and your bestower does 404 m/s. The other day, it is down to 92 m/s.
One day you log after farming NPC rats for 3 hours. The next day you warp to a belt and you are owned by the "new" pirates that changed because they were too easy.
making small moves and one at a time will enable CCP to tune the game as they see fit. Changing everything drastically at once only creates more inbalances.
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2003.12.20 12:47:00 -
[36]
If you touching cloth on a subject liek this WTF in a non gravity environment MWD one blast should take you at the same speed acrross the solar system relying on reverse thrust to stop.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Jera
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Posted - 2003.12.20 12:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jera on 20/12/2003 12:54:46
Quote:
The maximum speed of any ship, under any circumstances, would be 300,000,000km/s.
(
Now let's have some fun.
As it gains speed, stored energy to matter results to increasing its mass. And according to Einstein famous formulas, matter reaching light speed would have reached an infinite time the mass it has when still.
So a starship reaching light speed would have an infinite mass, having all the universe collapsing on it due to the insane gravitational field created. :)
Now food for though : are big bangs happening each time a conscious specy tries to reach light speed ?
)
Discuss loyalty to the State issues on the 'Caldari' channel
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.20 14:14:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
The maximum speed of any ship, under any circumstances, would be 300,000,000km/s.
(
Now let's have some fun.
As it gains speed, stored energy to matter results to increasing its mass. And according to Einstein famous formulas, matter reaching light speed would have reached an infinite time the mass it has when still.
So a starship reaching light speed would have an infinite mass, having all the universe collapsing on it due to the insane gravitational field created. :)
Now food for though : are big bangs happening each time a conscious specy tries to reach light speed ?
)
You missed the second part of the argument. Still according to Einstein, and assuming his theory to be correct:
The nearer to light-speed the ship is going, and consequently the more mass it has, the greater an amount of energy is needed to get it to increase its speed at all; also, the nearer to light-speed it is going, the greater a percentage of added energy goes towards increasing its mass, and the less goes towards increasing its velocity. It is these two factors - pick whichever you prefer - that mean the speed of light is an asymptote: you can - at least in theory and for subatomic particles, if not for macroscopic objects - get as CLOSE to that limit as you please, to any number of decimal places of measurement - but you can NOT, under ANY circumstances, actually reach it.
That said, if you DID reach it, then what you suggest about the Big Bang probably would occur.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Kunming
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Posted - 2003.12.20 16:11:00 -
[39]
I think u r forgetting something!! If u want to move something in space u need the equal or higher force of the mass.
x=Mass [kg]
y=Force [N] (Newton)
If x is like 10kg this means u need a force of 100N. The bigger the ship the larger the engine must be if u want to go fast. And I think speed is not the main priority of a battleship. I also think the new AB and MWD system is made very realistic! Which is good IMO.
Intercepting since BETA |
Kunming
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Posted - 2003.12.20 16:19:00 -
[40]
About Einsteins theory:
It's wrong! Search in the internet for "Quantum tunneling effect" and "Tachyon particles"...
Its just like u cant stay at light speed but u can go faster than it! U just need the starting energy that equals to the force that brings a certain amount of mass over light speed, cause after u reach tachyon, mass and energy goes antiproportional.
Intercepting since BETA |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.20 16:57:00 -
[41]
Quote:
About Einsteins theory:
It's wrong! Search in the internet for "Quantum tunneling effect" and "Tachyon particles"...
Its just like u cant stay at light speed but u can go faster than it! U just need the starting energy that equals to the force that brings a certain amount of mass over light speed, cause after u reach tachyon, mass and energy goes antiproportional.
Tachyonic particles hadn't ever been observed the last I read up on this subject; and, in theory, they would still obey Einstein's theorems, but in odd ways due to being super-light particles rather than sub-light.
Quantum tunnelling is something altogether else. Everything about the quantum world defies sensible explanation.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.12.20 18:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: StealthNet on 20/12/2003 18:39:26
Folks,
Last time I checked, we are talking here about 3 different theories, and they do not agree about what it is being discussed, so, basically, we are all right...
... or wrong 
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.12.20 19:03:00 -
[43]
Then lets just make something up that will set your mind at ease, battleships are slower 'cause they have to, moving their massive hulk of energy any faster would create negative energy around them which would be eating at their hulls much like tiny black holes of corrosion, there, reality out the window. Buh-bye!
Convert Stations
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Seth Argon
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Posted - 2003.12.20 19:44:00 -
[44]
Why did I read this entire post?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.12.20 22:18:00 -
[45]
We are not riding boats on water in EvE.
Mai's Idealog |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2003.12.21 22:48:00 -
[46]
Fastest "ship" is soviet build cargo "ship" which goes around 600kph =) And no, it cannot fly, so it's not an aeroplane. (Uses ground effect to skip from wave to wave and with four jet engines)
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
White Tiger
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Posted - 2003.12.21 23:01:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Quote:
CV-59 Forrestal (Carrier) 30+Knots
Naw, why not Slava class missile cruiser from the Northen Red Banner Fleet? (Which would sink it)
Arrogant American.
Well...Seeing as how the Forrestal has long since been decommissioned for many years I would love to hear how your Slava CG is gonna sink her.
Oh...BTW...Hypothetically your Slava would be toast long before He could get within Missile Range of the Forrestal...
Blind Russian....GRIN
White Tiger
Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group
"The Only Easy Day was Yesterday." |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.21 23:51:00 -
[48]
sci-fi Pronunciation Key (sI fI)
n. Informal pl. sci-Àfis
Science fiction.
adj.
Of, relating to, being, or similar to science fiction: a sci-fi movie; a sci-fi weapons system.
ficÀtion Pronunciation Key (fik-shun)
n.
- An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
- The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
Applying Reality to Fiction is useless, especially Science Fiction. It has been proven repeatedly that scientific facts only hold true until someone else proves them to be false.
Whatever vulnerabilities and strengths are needed to make the game work will exist, regardless of what Einstein, Newton or Roddenberry might have had to say on the matter. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Nemesis I
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Posted - 2003.12.22 00:05:00 -
[49]
Hijack in a way!
If youÆre after realism well not realism but logic - how come the emperor died? or donÆt they do royal clones!
Its a game the developers created as it is and can change it at whim!
Nem
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.22 00:09:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Hijack in a way!
If youÆre after realism well not realism but logic - how come the emperor died? or donÆt they do royal clones!
Its a game the developers created as it is and can change it at whim!
Nem
Actually, they covered that in the fiction. Amarr royalty aren't allowed clones. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.12.22 02:16:00 -
[51]
I find the fact that many battleships don't even fit through the docking bay doors of your avarage space station more disturbing to be honest.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2003.12.22 03:57:00 -
[52]
One important note that I have not seen discussed anywhere (of course, I might have missed it), is the issue of design philosophy.
The US Navy, for instance, before WW2, favored armor and firepower OVER speed in its battleship designs. However, the war started, this philosophy changed to empasize speed, as well as comparable firepower.
The Iowa class battleships required 63 percent more horsepower (212000 shp) to get an extra 5 knots of speed over the South Dakota class battleships. (33 knots vs. 27 knots).
Now, its possible that the current races of EVE, have a SLOW battleship philosophy, and so until we can design our own ships, are pretty much stuck to what is available.
Most cruisers however, in both the US and other navies, had speeds above most battleships. Fast battleships were a special purpose design, one which did not come about without painful learning experiences, as the British Navy lost 3 battlecruisers (essentially fast battleships) at Jutland.
Just some food for thought. Yeah speed is nice to have, but you ALWAYS have to pay a price for it, one way, or another.
Still sux.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.22 05:05:00 -
[53]
What I've never understood is why nobody has made the comparison with aeroplanes, which would be much more relevant - if we assume for the sake of argument that anything could possibly be relevant (hi there, Jash) - than with boats. I know spaceships are called "ships" but they *fly*, they don't travel across the surface of a medium, but through it.
So, planes. Why aren't EVE matters of size/speed more realistic, and based on the way size/speed varies in planes? For instance, a USAF top-grade fighter is tiny (1 or 2 pilots and nobody else) but goes insanely fast: Concorde can do MACH 2.2 with 144 passengers on board; a 747 can do 600mph or so with over 400 passengers on board. In short, the bigger a plane is, the slower it is forced to travel - oh no, wait .....
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2003.12.22 17:36:00 -
[54]
Thats actually a good point Baldour.
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