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Taking away T2 BPO's

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Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:10:00 - [1] I was shock to read the end of T2 BPO's is at hand .. removing the blueprint original lottery was put in the DEV Blog ! So i have work 4 years in a game to have some other person in the game mess up the 2 Bil ISK of work i have put into working for the R&D's and the 3 T2 BPO's that i now have will be taken away from me ? and every other long time player ? it is far to late for me and many other player to take all them points we have with our R&D and use them some other way! There comes a point in a game when new players can not have and do what the older long time players can do that is a fact of life in any thing you see. So it this now a way to mute all the older players skill and all the time and ISK they spent to cut us all out ? Just so the new players can do what a old player thats been playing for years can do ? Thanks a lot for the time Thief!
Nero Scuro Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:15:00 - [2] So you want messed up, retarded gameplay mechanics to remain in place just so you can keep all your imaginary play money? It's a game. Stop being so selfish. ___ Nice one CCP
Captin Lawdogg Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Captin Lawdogg on 15/03/2007 14:14:49 Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. T2 BPO holders currently have a monoply on the market, its is very difficult if not impossible for anyone else to get a T2 Bpo unless they have billions of isk to purchase it.
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Captin Lawdogg Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. It is called long term Investment ! its only a Monopoly when one person has them All !!
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:20:00 - [5] And i have been Giving away FREE BPC's for over 3 years now ! So i was never getting rich from it ..
Captin Lawdogg Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Captin Lawdogg Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. It is called long term Investment ! its only a Monopoly when one person has them All !! You sound very bitter, have some tea and relax, its just a game...

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:21:00 - [7] Excuse a noob... but where did it say that the current BPO's was going to be removed or even converted into BPCs? I scanned through the devblogs again and saw no such word, but maybe I'm too wasted to read right? Help me help you .

Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Chribba Excuse a noob... but where did it say that the current BPO's was going to be removed or even converted into BPCs? I scanned through the devblogs again and saw no such word, but maybe I'm too wasted to read right? Hi Boss It says removing the blueprint original lottery ! So what every T2 BPO you have in the Que then will no longer be there at all ! When a T2 BPO is in Que with a R&D agent you have to built up the points to get the agent to turn over that T2 BPO. The problem is not every one knows how to build up the points to get the Turn Over when there in Que !
Serapis Aote Minmatar TBC Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:26:00 - [9] Edited by: Serapis Aote on 15/03/2007 14:23:42 Originally by: Hilabana I was shock to read the end of T2 BPO's is at hand .. removing the blueprint original lottery was put in the DEV Blog ! So i have work 4 years in a game to have some other person in the game mess up the 2 Bil ISK of work i have put into working for the R&D's and the 3 T2 BPO's that i now have will be taken away from me ? and every other long time player ? it is far to late for me and many other player to take all them points we have with our R&D and use them some other way! There comes a point in a game when new players can not have and do what the older long time players can do that is a fact of life in any thing you see. So it this now a way to mute all the older players skill and all the time and ISK they spent to cut us all out ? Just so the new players can do what a old player thats been playing for years can do ? Thanks a lot for the time Thief! The system is messed up...they are trying to fix it. Deal with it. Stop being a selfish tool, and realize some things have to be done to make the overall game better. And by the way. Locking new players out content forever = eventual dead MMORPG Give me 5 good reasons why the current T2 lottery system is better than then a properly exectued invention system (without the t2 bpo holders), and I will shut up. The 5 points should adress the overall game mechanics of each system and which is better, not who will or will not be screwed over by it, just tell me why lottery and t2 BPO's is such a brilliant way to do it.
Trilliam Blackthorn	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:26:00 - [10] Quote: There comes a point in a game when new players can not have and do what the older long time players can do Actually....it's called BALANCING THE GAME. For eve to be balanced, anything one player has achieved MUST be able to be achievable by any other player, either through time or effort (or both). Anything less is simply hard-coding an insurmountable advantage directly into the game. With that in mind, do honestly think "older" players should be granted advantages that new players cannot have simply because you "got here first"? If so, do you think that will be a strong selling point to grow the user base?

Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Hilabana I was shock to read the end of T2 BPO's is at hand .. removing the blueprint original lottery was put in the DEV Blog ! So i have work 4 years in a game to have some other person in the game mess up the 2 Bil ISK of work i have put into working for the R&D's and the 3 T2 BPO's that i now have will be taken away from me ? and every other long time player ? it is far to late for me and many other player to take all them points we have with our R&D and use them some other way! There comes a point in a game when new players can not have and do what the older long time players can do that is a fact of life in any thing you see. So it this now a way to mute all the older players skill and all the time and ISK they spent to cut us all out ? Just so the new players can do what a old player thats been playing for years can do ? Thanks a lot for the time Thief! Afaik, the current T2 BPOs won't be removed. It would be utter crap for those that will win BPos in the coming months. The only thing that will change is that there will be no more BPO to win with the lottery. And the masses that whine about how CCP should remove the current blueprints are: a/ Jealous b/ Ignorants about the fact that only a small number of T2 blueprint really are money-makers c/ Ignorants about that fact that inventions will kill the huge profits those BPOs owners can make currently. ------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:29:00 - [12] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 14:27:16 Originally by: Chribba Excuse a noob... but where did it say that the current BPO's was going to be removed or even converted into BPCs? I scanned through the devblogs again and saw no such word, but maybe I'm too wasted to read right? I don't believe CCP has answered what exactly will happen to the existing BPO's... I'd imagine they would have to dissolve them into BPC's at some point in time... or make invention more profitable than BPO's, as Invention requires much more work and investment capital... No more free ISK printing machines... They simply can't leave them in, would not be fair at all... As it stands now, some T2 BPO holders have made a profit on their BPO's that would take someone using Invention 10 years to make... So they need to go IMO... Building the homestead
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:30:00 - [13] I've read al the forums on this and I don't see that the T2 BPO's will be eliminated. Just the lottery. But I Pray that the T2 BPO's will be destroyed! Eliminating any new T2 BPO's means the existing ones become priceless. Invention can NEVER compete with a T2 BPO holder. The farthest I'm willing to go in showing mercy to T2 BPO holders is to have the BPO's take damage similar to how Crystals do. That way, you might get lucky and produce off of them for a long time - but they might blow up tommorrow too.
meowmixmeow Gun Metal Priests The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:30:00 - [14] Some examples of useless t2 bpo's Gatling Pulse Laser II Micro Graviton Smartbomb II Micro Proton Smartbomb II Quad Beam Laser II .. --- ___ Your signature here... Click here for details 75mil ISK offered ___
meowmixmeow Gun Metal Priests The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Princess Jodi I've read al the forums on this and I don't see that the T2 BPO's will be eliminated. Just the lottery. But I Pray that the T2 BPO's will be destroyed! Eliminating any new T2 BPO's means the existing ones become priceless. Invention can NEVER compete with a T2 BPO holder. The farthest I'm willing to go in showing mercy to T2 BPO holders is to have the BPO's take damage similar to how Crystals do. That way, you might get lucky and produce off of them for a long time - but they might blow up tommorrow too. If you had them you wouldn't say that.. it all comes down to jealously. --- ___ Your signature here... Click here for details 75mil ISK offered ___
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Hilabana I was shock to read the end of T2 BPO's is at hand .. removing the blueprint original lottery was put in the DEV Blog ! So i have work 4 years in a game to have some other person in the game mess up the 2 Bil ISK of work i have put into working for the R&D's and the 3 T2 BPO's that i now have will be taken away from me ? and every other long time player ? it is far to late for me and many other player to take all them points we have with our R&D and use them some other way! There comes a point in a game when new players can not have and do what the older long time players can do that is a fact of life in any thing you see. So it this now a way to mute all the older players skill and all the time and ISK they spent to cut us all out ? Just so the new players can do what a old player thats been playing for years can do ? Thanks a lot for the time Thief! 1.) EVE hasn't even been live for 4 years. 2.) The devs haven't said what is going to happen to existing t2 bpo's. 3.) 2 billion isn't really much these days. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Captin Lawdogg Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. It is called long term Investment ! its only a Monopoly when one person has them All !! It's pretty much a oligopoly currently, which is pretty much as bad as a monopoly. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Captin Lawdogg Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:59:00 - [18] Edited by: Captin Lawdogg on 15/03/2007 14:55:29 Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Captin Lawdogg Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. It is called long term Investment ! its only a Monopoly when one person has them All !! It's pretty much a oligopoly currently, which is pretty much as bad as a monopoly. Wow, I learned a new word today, I knew I should have payed more attention in economics "oligopoly" is the perfect word to describe the current state of the T2 BPO market.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:13:00 - [19] Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's pretty much a oligopoly currently, which is pretty much as bad as a monopoly. If it is so bad, why don't you release the BPOs to the NPC market at appropriate prices? Just removing the BPO lottery won't really cheer up those people who are now thinking that the whole thing was rigged.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:14:00 - [20] Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's pretty much a oligopoly currently, which is pretty much as bad as a monopoly. A don't agree with that term. In a true oligopoly, the poor/newest has absolutely no chances to take power away from the rich/old, short of taking up arms and do a revolution. In Eve, any corp determined to get some T2 Bpos could do isks-earning corp operations for a month, (or XX players running lv4 in high-sec for 3 weeks), to come up with enough money to get some interesting BPOs (like AF or interdictor blueprints). Sure, it require efforts and teamplay, but you have to do just that if you want to grab power in this game anyway. ------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane.

Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Pan Crastus If it is so bad, why don't you release the BPOs to the NPC market at appropriate prices? Just removing the BPO lottery won't really cheer up those people who are now thinking that the whole thing was rigged. Oh really? What would, then? Nothing, that's what. This at least puts control of the T2 market more in the player's hands, for better or worse. I'm not saying the system would be perfect on day one, but you have to start somewhere. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Captin Lawdogg Edited by: Captin Lawdogg on 15/03/2007 14:14:49 Its called a monopoly, its not allowed in RL and should not be allowed in a game either imo, all it does is make prices skyrocket, which is great for the seller but very bad for everyone else. T2 BPO holders currently have a monoply on the market, its is very difficult if not impossible for anyone else to get a T2 Bpo unless they have billions of isk to purchase it. Not quite true. The exploitation of a monopoly causes inefficiences in the market. Some natural monopolies make prices go down. For example in national telephone, railroad, power networks, or municipal water, sewer etc... where there is no point in maintaining several overlapping systems. Wiki linkie ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:34:00 - [23] There is really no other option than to take them away at a certain point in time... The ones who really fear this are the alliances who don't agree with having a strong industrial base who bought up a lot of the ship BPO's, now they will actually have to work hard with invention to field all those T2 fleets... For alliances & corps who embrace industry, this will not be a problem... It will remove a lot of the pretenders from empire building IMO... The ones who farm complexes & buy T2 BPO's & such. Oh yeah, remove static complexes too... This will weed out the industrially weak corps and alliances, the ones who are PvP 100% of the time and hate having industry players in their alliance, etc... A system where hard work & dilligence is always the way to go over a crappy system like the T2 lottery that has plauged this game for so long... Building the homestead
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:36:00 - [24] Edited by: Laboratus on 15/03/2007 15:34:03 Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's pretty much a oligopoly currently, which is pretty much as bad as a monopoly. Ogliopoly is not so bad. According to Kotler: "Pure ogliopoly consists of a few companie producing essentially the same commodity. Such companies would find it hard to charge anything more than the going price. The only way to gain a competitive advantage is through lower costs." The "problem" with the current market is demand >> supply. A single T2 BPO can only produce so many runs in any given amount of time and they are not in constant use... The amount of items produced is artificially limited by the BPOs more than by their holders... There is a maximum amount of how many can be manufactured, but the demand is growing all the time. After all, the use of T2 items is no longer an advantage on the field, it is a requirement to being succesful... Originally by: DarkMatter There is really no other option than to take them away at a certain point in time... The ones who really fear this are the alliances who don't agree with having a strong industrial base who bought up a lot of the ship BPO's, now they will actually have to work hard with invention to field all those T2 fleets... For alliances & corps who embrace industry, this will not be a problem... It will remove a lot of the pretenders from empire building IMO... The ones who farm complexes & buy T2 BPO's & such. Oh yeah, remove static complexes too... This will weed out the industrially weak corps and alliances, the ones who are PvP 100% of the time and hate having industry players in their alliance, etc... A system where hard work & dilligence is always the way to go over a crappy system like the T2 lottery that has plauged this game for so long... Again, taking the T2 BPOs away, would only rise T2 prices, not help the player base in any significant way... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Chribba Excuse a noob... but where did it say that the current BPO's was going to be removed or even converted into BPCs? I scanned through the devblogs again and saw no such word, but maybe I'm too wasted to read right? hate to break it to all the kill the bpo'ers out there but bpo's arent going out of game bpo lotery is accelerated to deliver all the newly seeded ones to players b4 the LOTTERY is ended the bpo's will remain but the lottery is done after that the only way to get into t2 production is to get datacore and do invention all t2 bpo's will be remaining in game reading comprehension FTW
T2 BPO	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:44:00 - [26] I wonder what would be the alternative if T2 BPO's were removed from the game - replacement with max run BPC's for current T2 BPO holders? IF. I know they aren't being removed don't bother replying with such. ________ Save me!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Princess Jodi I've read al the forums on this and I don't see that the T2 BPO's will be eliminated. Just the lottery. But I Pray that the T2 BPO's will be destroyed! Eliminating any new T2 BPO's means the existing ones become priceless. Invention can NEVER compete with a T2 BPO holder. The farthest I'm willing to go in showing mercy to T2 BPO holders is to have the BPO's take damage similar to how Crystals do. That way, you might get lucky and produce off of them for a long time - but they might blow up tommorrow too. Why almost all the "destroy T2 BPO" people sprout this idiocy? Becoming priceless? No one will pay a T2 BPO more than the possible return in 1 year (and that is the current price). But the return will decrease for the invention effect, so T2 BPO will decrease in value. Destroyng/removing the BPO will only make some item totally scarce. I have got a Quake L BPO some day ago. After looking the skill required and the isk return I have put that on a shelve, later I will start producion, but for now I will train other skill before that. Do you think that someone will invent a BPC for something with a return of 200% and very little market? (build price for unit 260 isk, sell at 500 isk, if it sell) CCP should put to 0 (and better that that if starting from well researched T1 BPC) the ME and PE of the T2 BPC produced from invention and give some clear idea on the chances of success/copyes produced, so that people following the invention path have a good base to make the cost/reward analysis. That will help a lot. And a steady influx of BPO to keep a decent base in game or a system to get BPO from invention will be good things too. BTW: I have started research with my first character in May 2006, got more than 1 agent in September, now I have 14, and I have got 2 BPO so far. So it is hardly inaccessible for a newcomers, it only require to dedicate time and effort to it. All this whining about "it is not possible to get BPO" is like people whining "but I can't pilot a capitol ship after 2 month of play, waah, I will never have access to high end content", "waah can't use a covetor with my 1 month old character". Train for it and you can do it.
Laboratus Gallente BGG Alektorophobia	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Venkul Mul stuff I think that they should rather let the T2 BPCs gained from invention retain the runs, ME and PE from the T1 BPC it was made from... Would be better... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Val Oman Delta Desperados	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:55:00 - [29] One should have to do some work to get such a high value item in an MMO. Sorry, but getting standings up, training skills and putting some agents on autopilot is not the level of effort the T2 BPOs deserved. I have had 5 R&D agents running for over a year, it took me a weekend to set them up. The new system using invention is fun, fair and interdependent. The lottery system was single player game stuff, the new system is MMO. Sorry you are getting screwed now with this 'nurf'. But many more people have been screwed by the lottery system than what this 'nurf' will do to a few.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:00:00 - [30] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/03/2007 15:57:36 Originally by: prathe Originally by: Chribba Excuse a noob... but where did it say that the current BPO's was going to be removed or even converted into BPCs? I scanned through the devblogs again and saw no such word, but maybe I'm too wasted to read right? hate to break it to all the kill the bpo'ers out there but bpo's arent going out of game bpo lotery is accelerated to deliver all the newly seeded ones to players b4 the LOTTERY is ended the bpo's will remain but the lottery is done after that the only way to get into t2 production is to get datacore and do invention all t2 bpo's will be remaining in game reading comprehension FTW Please give us a link where they explicitly say the will NOT be removing them. Quote: Again, taking the T2 BPOs away, would only rise T2 prices, not help the player base in any significant way... Once they revamp the joke of an invention system and introduce reverse engineering, things will be fine. Building the homestead



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