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Knowledgeminer
Oriens Vis
15
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Posted - 2016.08.29 07:53:33 -
[1] - Quote
I thought citadels were the best change introduced to the game since I started playing it, but not anymore.
I'm sure there is some fun in citadel owners fighting for market dominance and trying to destroy one another, but from the standpoint of a simple user of them, having to deal with market services suddently becoming unavailable every now and then because a citadel is destroyed or the owner simply can't or doesn't want to keep it running anymore is no fun at all, rather just another huge waste of time...
This game looks great, but the feeling that for anything I want to do I have to waste a lot of time dealing with issues and doing other things I really don't want to do is burning me out... |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14941
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 07:56:07 -
[2] - Quote
Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Knowledgeminer
Oriens Vis
15
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Posted - 2016.08.29 08:03:16 -
[3] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved.
LOL, except NPC broker fees aren't the same that they've been for years, precisely to promote the citadels. You don't think I weren't aware of that "solution", do you? |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
528
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:16:46 -
[4] - Quote
Knowledgeminer wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved. LOL, except NPC broker fees aren't the same that they've been for years, precisely to promote the citadels. You don't think I wasn't aware of that "solution", do you?
So, what you want is to eat you cake and have it too.
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Serene Repose
2809
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:18:48 -
[5] - Quote
Actually, problem not solved. Playing like the citadels are someone else's problem ... I'm not going to explain that one.
I set one up on Singularity months and months ago. Did all the training. Hauled it out, "anchored it", took command, and sat there wondering what the point in this might be. Sure, put in a market function and try to beat the Jita/Dodixie/Rens/Amarr combine by fiddling with fees and sech like...on what in terms of items? Move the entire contents of one market into yours, then charge less?
I had a hard time imagining how this was playing EVE. It has all the earmarks of a data entry job. Then it occurred to me. There was always a problem with getting goods out to null sec. With abysmal security standing, access to fair markets with a wide range of products at a competitive price is problematic insofar as being shot at by NPCs. Trying to imagine what your corpies might need and making shopping trips with freighters is indeed a tedious chore. However, distribution of said goods then becomes a major problem.
The citadel with market function, place to park clones, at least (very least) seems like a good remedy. However, only in conjunction with a well-established POS and the attendant array. You could fill several freighters with a wide variety of goods, put them up for sale to your own folks at cost. The market panel would then serve for the distribution interface. Voila! Not bad. Sure, they're a bit flimsy, but relatively cheap and easy to replace if some misfortune should befall them. Under the POS system, they wouldn't count as turning sovereignty, so any losses would be supply intervention, or collateral damage - cost of doing business.
But, the rumblings are that the POS system is being Fozzied out. (Put all your eggs in one "head"...nice move.) And, imagining being left with just a citadel - which is actually at its core no more than a stationary ship - is a head scratcher to say the least. Of course, we have no idea what we're going to wind up with till we get it. Intosis. SOVs. FozzieFuzzie thinking seems to be the order of the day. It's a small wonder the population is turning to small things to keep occupied.
A lot of people left some time ago claiming we're being had. There was a lot of "trust us..." going about. Imagine saying that in an environment you created yourself predicated on "trust no one"....just imagine.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Solecist Project
32606
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:25:36 -
[6] - Quote
"Trying to imagine what your corpies might need and making shopping trips with freighters is indeed a tedious chore. However, distribution of said goods then becomes a major problem."
No one does that. Any half decent organized group will be smart enough to send corp/alliance wide mails. Any group not smart enough is too dumb to live there anyway.
This is not a concern at all. Of course it's a chore by itself, though ... ... they want to live in nullsec, so be it.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14942
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:25:48 -
[7] - Quote
Knowledgeminer wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved. LOL, except NPC broker fees aren't the same that they've been for years, precisely to promote the citadels. You don't think I wasn't aware of that "solution", do you? So what is your problem actually? I thought its unreliable services? But now you said its also NPC broker fees. So you have to accept one or another. Your choice. What is bigger problem to you?
There will be no structure that excells in everything. You can bet all your ISK on it.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
919
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 09:30:14 -
[8] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I had a hard time imagining how this was playing EVE. Cause there's only 1 way to play the game right?
Lack of imagination on perfect display.
Serene Repose wrote:But, the rumblings are that the POS system is being Fozzied out. (Put all your eggs in one "head"...nice move.) And, imagining being left with just a citadel - which is actually at its core no more than a stationary ship - is a head scratcher to say the least.
Where did you get the idea that the removal of POSs means we are left with just a Citadel?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Serene Repose
2809
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:35:35 -
[9] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I had a hard time imagining how this was playing EVE. Cause there's only 1 way to play the game right? Lack of imagination on perfect display. Serene Repose wrote:But, the rumblings are that the POS system is being Fozzied out. (Put all your eggs in one "head"...nice move.) And, imagining being left with just a citadel - which is actually at its core no more than a stationary ship - is a head scratcher to say the least. Where did you get the idea that the removal of POSs means we are left with just a Citadel? The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea.
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1583
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:40:53 -
[10] - Quote
Citadels aren't automatically meant for every player for every purpose. Yes, creating market hubs in high-sec is one of the options but good luck competing with the 500 other guys who have the exact same idea and who probably have more money than you. Just because the Citadels aren't working in your favor doesn't mean they are badly implemented (a few lacking features not withstanding).
As a null-sec player I can tell you these things are worth their weight in gold. And while you may have access to them in high-sec, don't forget these things are primarily meant to replace Outposts in 0.0. And they fill that role perfectly, if not better.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Solecist Project
32606
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Posted - 2016.08.29 09:52:06 -
[11] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:don't forget these things are primarily meant to replace Outposts in 0.0. No, they're not.
They're meant to provide a dockable structure for NewSpace.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
920
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Posted - 2016.08.29 10:16:54 -
[12] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Where did you get the idea that the removal of POSs means we are left with just a Citadel? The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. That's normal, but maybe you should do some reading then. The information is available.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2253
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Posted - 2016.08.29 10:37:20 -
[13] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1051
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Posted - 2016.08.29 10:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18029
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Posted - 2016.08.29 10:46:35 -
[15] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.
You wouldn't steal a hologram. |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1051
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 10:47:53 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Elenahina wrote:Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility. You wouldn't steal a hologram.
This is New Eden. I would steal my own mother's cremated ashes, if I could make an isk off of it.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
73
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Posted - 2016.08.29 10:55:28 -
[17] - Quote
I think Citadels are there to fill a new role. Replacement of POS. Now they have 1 item instead of 150 items. Think here for a moment about the size of the game, about loot dropping, about the numbers of attackers.
They reduce the items in space down to 1/150 th of what it was, while also adding in factors that limit how much DPS these can receive. So there's no need to bring something that will roflstomp it empty in mere seconds as that no longer works. Throw in the timers used and now players are forced to hit at specific times, vs hitting everything at once.
Assuming they move all industry and moon mining to citadels, they have just lowered their game processing by huge amounts.
So, less items in space, less players in space, less blobs all at once (due to timers).
It also brings in a feature we were promised with POS's... "Sharing" of the POS to non-corp players. None of the promises ever materialized so I guess they will consider citadels to be them filling that.
And I disagree with others on saying that the broker fee's should just be accepted.
Now it takes nearly 20 days of skill training to get the cost down from 5% to 3%, that's quite a bit, and it is only that good if you have a standing of 10 with the corp in question. The fee's are quite excessive now, but I guess they felt it was more fair to pull isk from traders than those who were getting killed in their pods.
I like citadels, but they are honestly underpowered when it comes to defending themselves. They should be able to destroy at least some of the attackers, the way it is now means that small corps have no real reason to build their own. It doesn't "Bridge" any gap between industry and PVP... It just gives players something to spend money on and watch die.
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Knowledgeminer
Oriens Vis
16
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Posted - 2016.08.29 11:13:26 -
[18] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Knowledgeminer wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved. LOL, except NPC broker fees aren't the same that they've been for years, precisely to promote the citadels. You don't think I wasn't aware of that "solution", do you? So what is your problem actually? I thought its unreliable services? But now you said its also NPC broker fees. So you have to accept one or another. Your choice. What is bigger problem to you? There will be no structure that excells in everything. You can bet all your ISK on it.
You don't do anything that involves managing market orders in a competitive market, much less making significant changes to the price of a large number of items, do you? You're aware that CCP may very well gradually increase the NPC fees over time to whatever level is necessary to "help" players move to citadel services, right?
My problem isn't broker fees. For what it's worth, many of my market orders are still NPC based because that's still a good choice in some cases. My problem is related to unreliable services, yes, but is not exactly that either. My problem is I often find myself wasting too much time having to deal with issues that are no fun at all for nearly anything I want to do in EvE and I've got tired of it.
In this case it is I bought the idea that CCP wants players move to citadel market services... great... at first... until you find out that means having to deal with utterly annoying and time consuming issues you didn't have to deal with when citadels didn't exist... and that is my BIG problem... citadel market services, which CCP wants players to use, require wasting time to deal with annoying issues we didn't have to deal with before...
I'm sure citadels are or will be great for other things, maybe for everything other than market, but for market they suck big time, yet CCP is using precisely that feature to try to make people want to build them, with the end result that we have yet another way to waste our time doing things that are utterly unproductive and no fun at all...
Maybe it's unavoidable to make players have to waste their time doing annoying things in a complex game like this, I don't know. I do know, however, that it makes (some) players to eventually get burnt out and prefer to spend that time on something else instead... |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14961
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 11:43:08 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:My problem is related to unreliable services, yes, but is not exactly that either. My problem is I often find myself wasting too much time having to deal with issues that are no fun at all for nearly anything I want to do in EvE and I've got tired of it. Your problem is unreliable services. Still, certain citadels may be more reliable than others. You are not wasting time because CCP makes it harder for you, its other players that make them unreliable, dont forget about that.
You have to deal with consequences of your choices and choices of others. And one of them choices may be also doing nothing to protect the service you are using.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Serene Repose
2810
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 11:52:26 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens. Thanks so much for the clarification. I'm as good at "wait and see" as most people, I guess. . .(don't ask Santa )
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
89
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Posted - 2016.08.29 12:18:04 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.
I. e. The goal is to remove player owned starbases. And other options like research agents (I haven't forgotten that little thing), and so on.
Maybe the new structures will replace all the functions of what was removed (but how I hate the idea of a new citadels structure spawning random datacores instead of having my agents), but most of them aren't aimed to single players or small groups. They are mean to to be a tool for larger groups.
So, thanks for nothing. Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
14964
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 12:25:44 -
[22] - Quote
But you cant do much alone here. This is not a single player game where you can have powers of a god.
Here you have to deal with others. That is the underlying cause to many issues players have with EVE and other MMOGames. While I play alone for the most time, I dont really mind interaction with others, even if its only finding a way to not get killed by them.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 13:06:52 -
[23] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
So, thanks for nothing. Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.
But you can play alone (and many are doing that without problems), there are of course consequences of making that choice, as there should be in a multiplayer game IMO. So live with them, and stop expecting special treatment for choosing a limiting and often more challenging playstyle.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
210
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Posted - 2016.08.29 13:21:19 -
[24] - Quote
Knowledgeminer wrote:I thought citadels were the best change introduced to the game since I started playing it, but not anymore.
I'm sure there is some fun in citadel owners fighting for market dominance and trying to destroy one another, but from the standpoint of a simple user of them, having to deal with market services suddently becoming unavailable every now and then because a citadel is destroyed or the owner simply can't or doesn't want to keep it running anymore is no fun at all, rather just another huge waste of time...
This game looks great, but the feeling that for anything I want to do I have to waste a lot of time dealing with issues and doing other things I really don't want to do is burning me out...
So you are saying that by getting a higher reward (lower taxes), you also encounter more risk (being locked out, citadel being blown up etc.)? This seems to fit with the overall philosophy of EVE IMO. You still have the ability to use a npc station, and get rid of all the trouble. Before someone complains about that the higher taxes ruins everything in npc stations, then notice how all that changed in jita is that difference between buy and sell orders have increased, but the profit is mostly the same. So the market just adjusted.
If you are burning out (because you chose to engage in citadel trading for higher profit out of your free will, instead of earning less with something you can handle), take a break from EVE. I have done it before. It helped me at least.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Solecist Project
32612
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 13:27:28 -
[25] - Quote
Let's all not forget that citadels are meant as dockable structures for NewSpace.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Jacques d'Orleans
2828
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 13:35:28 -
[26] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility.
That's a pretty good idea, New Eden surely has a great demand on "those certain" holoreels.
Let me say it this way.
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Solecist Project
32613
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 13:44:44 -
[27] - Quote
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:Elenahina wrote:Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility. That's a pretty good idea, New Eden surely has a great demand on "those certain" holoreels. I remember some rather odd person.
He advertised x-rated holoreels, which can only be bought via contracts.
He sold me 10 for the price of eight, 40ish million isk. He even delivered them.
Totally useless, but we both found it fun and it made his day. :D
And anyone thinking it's a waste of isk: no poor, please. Thanks.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre Science and Research
169
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 14:17:44 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens.
Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen.
This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17922
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 14:33:34 -
[29] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens. Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen. This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer.
After Citadels can replace all the required functionality, is what they've said in the past. There is no hard and fast timetable.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
2171
|
Posted - 2016.08.29 14:38:43 -
[30] - Quote
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens. Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen. This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer. Every single time since CCP started to even mention Citadels, when someone asked about the future plans for POS's they gave, and are still giving, an answer that comes down to: "well we don't know yet for sure"
The only thing we know, and the only thing CCP has stated until now (and CCP Darwins post is no exception to that) is that POS's will most probably be removed at some point in the future.
I have no problem whatsoever with that answer. Two things you need when playing EvE: Patience and grains of salt the size of mountains to go with CCP's future plans...
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Solecist Project
32622
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Posted - 2016.08.29 14:42:04 -
[31] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Graabeerd Khagah wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Serene Repose wrote:The idea is the idea isn't clear. The idea is I have no idea. I can't speak to the structure team's specific plans, but my understanding is that phasing out player-owned starbases is a long-term goal that requires a lot more development of current and not-yet-existing structures. There will be plenty of advance notice of the details before anything like that happens. Just exactly what is the time frame for removal of POSes? I have seen a lot of them in all spaces known and wormhole and without any real idea time wise many are not even online that I have seen. This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer. After Citadels can replace all the required functionality, is what they've said in the past. There is no hard and fast timetable. Uhm... they said they'll phase out at the end of this year.
That changed?
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Knowledgeminer
Oriens Vis
16
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Posted - 2016.08.29 14:43:34 -
[32] - Quote
sero Hita wrote:So you are saying that by getting a higher reward (lower taxes), you also encounter more risk (being locked out, citadel being blown up etc.)? This seems to fit with the overall philosophy of EVE IMO. You still have the ability to use a npc station, and get rid of all the trouble. Before someone complains about that the higher taxes ruins everything in npc stations, then notice how all that changed in jita is that difference between buy and sell orders have increased, but the profit is mostly the same. So the market just adjusted.
If you are burning out (because you chose to engage in citadel trading for higher profit out of your free will, instead of earning less with something you can handle), take a break from EVE. I have done it before. It helped me at least.
Not exactly. If I knew CCP wants both market systems to coexist indefinitely and that NPC broker fees will be kept the way they're now, then yes, NPC stations would be the best option for most of my market orders and the additional cost would be worth the lack of trouble. I would place market orders at citadels in some particular cases only and wouldn't mind much if the service was unreliable in those cases, as it would only cost me a small amount of ISK but no significant waste of time, which is what really annoys me.
The problem is that I was (and still am) under the impression that CCP wants to gradually move most, if not all, player market activity away from NPC stations and into citadels, by gradually increasing the NPC broker fees if necessary, so I started doing that move myself when and where appropriate and liked it at first, but have found it to end up being an annoying experience.
And yes, I've also taken a break in the past and will definitely take another now, maybe just log in occasionally to check a few things. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
2257
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Posted - 2016.08.29 14:44:11 -
[33] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. If your concern is that new structures (including, but not limited to, Citadels) leave a potential gap for small groups in a future world without player-owned starbases, my suggestion would be to post in the comment threads of structure-related dev blogs or structure-related feedback threads and raise the concern. Or, as an alternative, you can contact a CSM member and ask them to speak up for you.
You can count on there being more of these dev blogs, feedback threads, and CSM discussions with our developers before any major change like removing player-owned starbases.
Graabeerd Khagah wrote:This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer. I would say that "we don't know yet" is the fullest, most honest answer there could be, if we don't know yet.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
569
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Posted - 2016.08.29 15:11:36 -
[34] - Quote
Two bits of POS functionality should be coming to the new deployable structures this year.
Industrial Arrays will be "Fall 2016" http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/fall/ I assume these will have bonuses to manufacturing and research, maybe refining as well.
Drilling Platforms will be "Winter 2016" http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/winter/ I assume these will support moon goo extraction and perhaps some other methods of wealth generation like increasing the value of asteroids and PI in the system or something.
Replacement for POS features like jump bridges and cyno beacons have not been discussed yet that I know of. |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1055
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Posted - 2016.08.29 15:22:55 -
[35] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote: Replacement for POS features like jump bridges and cyno beacons have not been discussed yet that I know of.
Honestly, there's no reason those can't become service modules off of Citadels, or eve a separate deployable structure. I don't see that as really holding up the removal of POSes in any significant fashion.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
164
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Posted - 2016.08.29 18:27:10 -
[36] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:baltec1 wrote:Elenahina wrote:Personally, I'm hoping for a bootleg holoreel production facility. You wouldn't steal a hologram. This is New Eden. I would steal my own mother's cremated ashes, if I could make an isk off of it.
Finally! Someone who plays Eve and is honest
Max
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
89
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Posted - 2016.08.29 21:49:55 -
[37] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:But you cant do much alone here. This is not a single player game where you can have powers of a god.
Here you have to deal with others. That is the underlying cause to many issues players have with EVE and other MMOGames. While I play alone for the most time, I dont really mind interaction with others, even if its only finding a way to not get killed by them.
There is a big difference between interacting with others or being in a small corp while having options to do your own things at the same time and, instead, having to be in a structure big enough to support the kind of gameplay that this vision of the game try to impose.
Take the idea of removing the research agents and replacing them with a structure in a citadel.
Current situation: you do it by yourself, for yourself and sell the result or use it.
The future version, if implemented as depicted a few months ago: - the corp pay for a citadel upgrade that spawns random datacores; - those datgacores can be pilfered; - someone must defend them; - no idea of what will be the effect of the skills we have trained, probably the corp will have to give a roles to a member, something like a research manager (a very incompetent one if the result can be pilfered with ease):
An enhancement to my gameplay? Not for sure. An enhancement to my corp gameplay (not so small, 88 people) or alliance? Seeing how few day the bounty enhancing structure was left active before deciding ti was more an hassle than useful, I doubt it.
Moon mining? We will get a nwe deplyable structure with no or very little defense capability.
Industry? Maybe in a citadel or maybe a separate structure with little defense capability.
And so on.
CCP want more assets that we will have to defend, but that mean having people active 23/7 and standing fleets capable to fight most threats. I.e. big structures. Structures that will fall as soon as the CEO/Directors get tired or bored.
Essentially most players will be replaceable ants.
CCP goal seem to be a game where people want to resub every few years to see the changes, but where people aren't meant to stay for very long on each after resubbing.
sero Hita wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
So, thanks for nothing. Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. It is always surprising how CCP seem to dislike that demographic of its players.
But you can play alone (and many are doing that without problems), there are of course consequences of making that choice, as there should be in a multiplayer sandbox game IMO. So live with them, and stop expecting special treatment for choosing a limiting and often more challenging playstyle.
Special treatment like not having the currently existing options removed? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15017
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 06:31:04 -
[38] - Quote
Seeing how people dont have time for anything now, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both (a cultural change happened), i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).
T-rex is on a rampage.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56259
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 08:35:41 -
[39] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Seeing how people dont have time for anything, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both, i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).
T-rex is on the evolutional rampage. Nice analogy portraying Eve as an old Dinosaur. And we all know what happened to the Dinosaurs, right ?
They became extinct.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15033
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 08:41:57 -
[40] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Seeing how people dont have time for anything, because they want it "right now" (instant gratification), or with no effort (afk), or both, i think EVE is an old dinosaur that is climbing its own evolution branch, occasionally aquiring some trashy genetic code from the mainstream games (microtransactions).
T-rex is on the evolutional rampage. Nice analogy portraying Eve as an old Dinosaur. And we all know what happened to the Dinosaurs, right ? They became extinct. DMC Not really all of them. Birds: only clade of dinosaurs to have survived the KGÇôPg extinction event. Source. That means EVE can evolve into its own niche even more, and stay for a long time, if CCP will do it right.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Solecist Project
32704
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 13:08:26 -
[41] - Quote
Every egg you eat ... ... didn't get to grow into a modern dinosaur.
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
640
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 15:14:03 -
[42] - Quote
HiSec, yeah, not much use ATM. May become more valuable once the NPC stations are culled a bit.
LoSec, Citadels probably have good value but are giant targets so it's risky no matter what...
NullSec/WH, Citadels are probably critical to operations for Corps and Alliances, as well as defending Sov. We have yet to see the other 'shoes' drop in the form of structures soooo... that's what it is.
Citadels on their own aren't meant to be the end all of the game structure fun. They also aren't meant to be some kind of solo "Station Master" game. It's not something for everyone or that everyone would like to play.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
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CaptCommando
Sky Fighters
3
|
Posted - 2016.08.30 19:20:14 -
[43] - Quote
Just a thought but market in the structure and if your group is in a WH means a marketeer could keep corp supplied more easily and turn a profit same time. So you wont have to have everyone go to jita for new stuff you could just bring in Doct fits and ships and assorted other items and then they could just buy it in the WH from you. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
91
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Posted - 2016.08.31 09:00:56 -
[44] - Quote
Sure, citadels are great for WH corps.
Not bad for 0.0 corps, they need further development but can substitute the outposts. Not the POS as substituting those will require to deploy several different structures in several locations in the system to get the same functionality. Sorry, but replacing a structure that can defend itself passably and can be managed by a single person with several structures in different locations with little or no defense capability, where each should be managed separately and defended separately isn't an improvement.
Low sec? A nice thing to have beside the POS, but replacing them with the new structures (as depicted so far) seem a frustrating option if you aren't in a very large organization.
Hi sec? Replacing the POS with the new structures seem a very bad idea.
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Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
882
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 10:15:43 -
[45] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:
Still, certain citadels may be more reliable than others. You are not wasting time because CCP makes it harder for you, its other players that make them unreliable, dont forget about that.
so maybe other players do that due to current Citadels meta and not because they want so?
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
882
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Posted - 2016.08.31 10:25:57 -
[46] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:I think Citadels are there to fill a new role. Replacement of POS. Now they have 1 item instead of 150 items. Think here for a moment about the size of the game, about loot dropping, about the numbers of attackers.
well ain't Eve dying? and we have online dropped almost twice? the game is big for sure but how many system if you make the whole round trip through New Eden would be found empty with no content going around. How many attackers do you recon? even the latest WWB didn't show up any significant numbers. Imperium alone was +35k and MBC even greater. I can't imagine what CCP going to do if two powerhouses decided to crowd one single system and show more than 10k of pilots. Sorry guys our hardware didn't swallow that chunk.
The remove decent amount of low meta mods which is great but in the meantime they seeded same amount of new exploration loot. hell why?
DeODokktor wrote: They reduce the items in space down to 1/150 th of what it was, while also adding in factors that limit how much DPS these can receive. So there's no need to bring something that will roflstomp it empty in mere seconds as that no longer works. Throw in the timers used and now players are forced to hit at specific times, vs hitting everything at once.
Assuming they move all industry and moon mining to citadels, they have just lowered their game processing by huge amounts.
So, less items in space, less players in space, less blobs all at once (due to timers).
SO looks like we have Citadels in a form of excuses for not being able to rework old legacy code in form of POS's. If that's the case it's a shame.
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
882
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 10:28:04 -
[47] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Let's all not forget that citadels are meant as dockable structures for NewSpace.
reminds me of Microsoft who spend on advertising of symple PC OS so much money instead of investing more to make it better in the first place.
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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HeXxploiT
Little Red X
234
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Posted - 2016.08.31 15:28:16 -
[48] - Quote
Knowledgeminer wrote:I thought citadels were the best change introduced to the game since I started playing it, but not anymore.
I'm sure there is some fun in citadel owners fighting for market dominance and trying to destroy one another, but from the standpoint of a simple user of them, having to deal with market services suddenly becoming unavailable every now and then because a citadel is destroyed or the owner simply can't or doesn't want to keep it running anymore is no fun at all, rather just another huge waste of time...
This game looks great, but the feeling that for anything I want to do I have to waste a lot of time dealing with issues and doing other things I really don't want to do is burning me out...
The trouble is CCP is trying to steal a few pennies from every single change made to the game. People wanted a pos to be managed like a station. Simple. So they give us that granted with some added bonuses but with some obvious huge downsides that ultimately come in the form of isk sinks. Personally I think the most annoying thing is that one day I can dock in one and the next day I can't because some corp or alliance decides they don't want my competition(Which has happened to me already). Ultimately the highsec trading citidels will fail and will not become the main trading hubs until CCP forces the issue. As a trader I was initially interested in this but have already decided I will deal with the high tax rates of stations, which honestly should be insignificant to a skilled trader, and let the other guys waste their time & money in this fruitless endeavor.
Citidels are a really cool huge pain in the butt. |
The Leopardess
Viziam Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:48:45 -
[49] - Quote
Citadels have been wonderful for my main's large null Alliance (Imperium) and while I sympathize its kind of part of the price we pay for wanting realism in the game. It reminds me of the big Target failscade up in Canada a bit. Department stores are not quite the same as ginormous outerspace city complexes but there is a bit of a comparison to be had in context of what Eve is (mankind tens of thousands of years in the future)
I'm not sure they make as much sense in highsec, but, it may be the players have not "solved" the problem of citadels. Perhaps it is a matter of organizing corps in highsec differently or banding together better. |
Fade Azura
Logistics and Salvage Express Services
166
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 16:07:10 -
[50] - Quote
Just came back from a break and i think the citadels are pretty cool addition although i dont think they should replace pos's completely in the future if thats what the main plan is.
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
105
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 19:11:37 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Some of your subscribers like to have options for playing alone or in small groups. If your concern is that new structures (including, but not limited to, Citadels) leave a potential gap for small groups in a future world without player-owned starbases, my suggestion would be to post in the comment threads of structure-related dev blogs or structure-related feedback threads and raise the concern. Or, as an alternative, you can contact a CSM member and ask them to speak up for you. (I realize these concerns have been raised before, by the way, but there's no harm in letting the team know that it's still an active issue.) You can count on there being more of these dev blogs, feedback threads, and CSM discussions with our developers before any major change like removing player-owned starbases. Graabeerd Khagah wrote:This question just needs a full honest answer and not some beating around the bush "well we don't know yet for sure" type of answer. I would say that "we don't know yet" is the fullest, most honest answer there could be, if we don't know yet.
When clones were scrapped we didn't have to know that you were planning 30 month later to do something exciting called Alpha clones. Clones going away created no missing functions from game-play, removing them from the game didn't worry anyone.
However, Structures that have a multiple roles in gameplay becoming redundant where the proffered replacements do not have the all the functionality of the thing they are supposed to replace is very worrying. We don't mind if you have a timetable for when you can tell us new shiny things are coming soon and if they don't do everything we need them to something later will .
You should tell us that you are aware that some features are not covered in the latest update and you have a plan to fix it because "We don't know" from a software company with a multi million dollar turnover is worrying.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
15461
|
Posted - 2016.09.06 20:11:32 -
[52] - Quote
Fade Azura wrote:Just came back from a break and i think the citadels are pretty cool addition although i dont think they should replace pos's completely in the future if thats what the main plan is.
There were few lines of structures presented on fanfest in 2015 i think, but how much of them will be developed finally, we dont know. Some dont feel like they are needed for reasons other than looking pretty while providing some particular, not essential features.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him.
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Keno Skir
839
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Posted - 2016.09.07 00:18:50 -
[53] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:Now it takes nearly 20 days of skill training to get the cost down from 5% to 3%, that's quite a bit
20 days is not a long time.
Gùï> 30 Day Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 30 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1746
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 02:14:33 -
[54] - Quote
So this whole thread boils down to the OP wanting more money without any risks Was this really worth 3 pages? |
Ishido Attaka
Czerka.
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 07:55:55 -
[55] - Quote
Knowledgeminer wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Use NPC markets like you have been using them for years. Problem solved. LOL, except NPC broker fees aren't the same that they've been for years, precisely to promote the citadels. You don't think I wasn't aware of that "solution", do you?
Yes, that true, but it seems to me you try to find easy solution for a situation, that was made 'complicated' by CCP deliberatly. |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2016.09.08 14:19:27 -
[56] - Quote
And here's poor old me just wondering what will happen to sov outposts under the citadels. And if citadels will ever have insurance bureaus. |
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