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Revamp the Brutix and the Myrmidon

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Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:06:00 - [1] The simple change to the Myrmidon it this. Bonus 1: 20% Bonus to Medium Drone Damage Bonus 2: 5% reduction in MWD capacitor bonus ------ Basically the problems are 1: It tanks too much 2: It ganks too much 20% med drone damage bonus makes medium drones [2 flights + light backup] do as much damage as unbonunsed heavy Drones. The Myrm is no longer doing battleship damage. And its Medium Drones are extra strong giving it better damage against smaller ships. the second problem of it tanking too much[thus making the Brutix the tank BC and the Myrm the "gank" BC] is fixed by removing its tanking bonus and giving it a less powerful bonus. Other options for bonuses besides the MWD cap bonus would be "non damage drone bonuses" +5% Drone Velocity/level +7.5% Drone Tracking/level +10% Drone Optimal range/level Etc. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:19:00 - [2] Nope, I just looked at our killboards and extrapolated from there ;) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:31:00 - [3] Hurricane cant come close to out tanking a Cyclone while out-ganking it. The Ferox and Drake are two competly different boats and provide roles that are so divergent they cant really be compared in terms of pure tank and DPS. I.E. 130km rails make the equation a bit skewed. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 22:58:00 - [4] Originally by: PathetiQ wow what a booring and useless post... brutix ftw If it was so boring and useless, why did you post it? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Goumindong on 15/03/2007 23:14:59 Originally by: Firane Brutix just needs another low. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha. ed: To be honest Xori, the prophecy does indeed suck. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.15 23:28:00 - [6] Eve mail me in game and ill let you know all about it. The Prophecy isnt as bad as the Omen or Maller, but its still pretty bad. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 00:31:00 Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/03/2007 00:19:14 yaaay, 5* blaster 2 ew power+other goodies good tank with 5 lows. 5* T2 hammerhead Or 5* railguns 2 Large shieldextenders+invul pdu, shield relays... 5* hammerhead 2 = Pottsey loving you (Decrease drone bay to 50) Bonus 1: Sensor damp effectiveness (ala Celestis) Bonus 2: Sensor damp optimal range bonus Better than reducing the drone bay would be to give it a drone damage bonus to med drones only instead of the optimal range bonus or effectiveness bonus for the damps. That way it can carry spares. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.17 00:42:00 - [8] Edited by: Goumindong on 17/03/2007 00:40:56 Harby should be doing similar DPS with pulse compared to a brutix. A similar brutix will tank better[it will be using elctrons], but the range of the Harbies pulses would balance that fact heavily in gangs. A brutix that eekes out more damage the Harbinger will have a very light tank which, while the Harbinger will also have a very light tank, means that you are now directly in the damage vs range comparison, making the Harbinger better for Gangs and the Brutix better solo. It would be [almost, but not quite due to lower HP totals on cruisers] like giving the Omen 5 turrets a damage[and not rof] bonus and a 50 cube drone bay. At which point it would be near directly comparable to the thorax if the thorax were to get a tanking bonus.[Note that the above is an example, a 5 turret, 50 cube Omen would be ridiculous] The issues with the BCs are this 1) The Myrmidon is overpowered. It fills every role as well or better than its competitors. It tanks, it ganks, it tanks and ganks, it noses, it rail/sentry snipes. It does these things better than its teir 1 equivelent without giving anything up. The Hurricane can tank better than a Cyclone, but in order to do so, must lose DPS against the Cyclone[and cant fit gang mods]. The Drake does not have the capacity to utterly ream frigates from over 100km away[while still fitting gang mods and other juicy options] or deal instant damage to any target at any range. The Harbinger doesnt tank anywhere near the Prophecy even though the Prophecy is fairly useless for doing anything but ratting/missioning Sansha and Blood or being a gang mod platform. The Myrmidon does all these things better than the Brutix. It has an easier time fiting gang mods, does more DPS when fitted gank[and tank], has the same or longer range. Etc. Etc. Etc. It should also be noted that there is an imbalance within the teir 1 battlecruisers, where the Brutix just cleans house in all categories[its the best close and medium range damage, best usefull tank, etc] except long range damage[Ferox is once it surpasses the Brutixs optimal] Such that the three simple answers to the issues are 1: Nerf the Myrm: To compensate, reduce its drawbacks 2: Boost the Ferox, Prophecy, and Cyclone 3: Boost the Harbinger, just because it needs 8 turrets in order to not look funny. Myrm has no slot or stat changes except: Bonus 1 Becomes: 20% Drone Hit Points and Damage Bonus for Medium Drones and Bonus 2 Becomes: Sensor Damp effectiveness/hybrid damage/drone velocity For number 2: Ferox and Cyclone get another turret and mid slot: Prophecy gets 25% damage bonus and 50% energy cap use special ability, and a 7th low[in addition to the tank bonus] Brutix gains a 7th low and 8th, utiltiy high and powergrid/cpu to fit a gang mod. For number 3: Harbinger gets 8 turrets, 50% cap use special ability, and a tracking bonus. Alternatly, cut all laser cap use by 40-45% and start giving amarr ships second bonuses. Now you have situations where: Cylone tanks 33% better and does 25% less damage than Hurricane. Prophecy tanks 33% better and does 25% less damage than Harbinger[minus the mid slot/low slot conversion thing]. Ferox is no longer out-damaged at all ranges against the Brutix and gains more versitilty in the mids. Brutix gets balanced inbetween the gank of the teir 2 BCs and the tank of the teir 1 BCs. Myrmidon ganks better than Brutix but doesnt tank as well.[with damage bonus, or ewars instead of damage for ewar, or becomes drone supremacy boat] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Lab Technician071548 Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I, on the other hand, despise guns and picked Gallente ships because I wanted to go with as much of a drone setup as possible. The two weapon systems are just going to have to coexist. You're missing the point. Even without a turret bonus the Myrmidon does only 50dps less in blaster config than the Brutix, without counting drones.... So what? The drake spanks the living daylights out of the ferox. Where are the hoards of caldari complainants about how the poor old ferox get obsoleted overnight? The myrmidon >should< out damage it's lower brethren. It seems pretty clearly wrong headed to assume that the T1 and T2 BCs should be "different but equal" but this was somehow botched by the devs or the contet/balance people. I think the general trend is a major boost in power in the next tier up and I think that's also cleary implied by the "arms race" language used by CCP. Why do we not have a similar discussion about the Hyperion and Megathron? I think it's pretty clear that the T3 minmatar BS is better than either of the old boats. About the only "different and speicialized differently so therefore equal but only in different roles" situation is the Caldari lineup, in which there are 3 vastly different designes, all of which are useful in their intended role. So, is the message here really that everyone should have designed variety like the Caldari BS lineup and that this design mentality should translated down into the BC range as well? That certainly seems to follow naturally. That's not going to happen and, honestly, I don't think it's all that desirable of a thing to happen. You must not read these boards, we get an "omh ferox sucks" thread about every other day. When the Drake first came out the majority of posts on the issue were "Welp, the Ferox is obsolete" P.S. The Hyperion is not stronger than the Megathron. It does less damage[due to drone bay], but tanks better, and its low locking range and short CPU makes it difficult to fit for sniping. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Goumindong on 20/03/2007 17:33:25 Originally by: UKBarryScott Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 15/03/2007 20:20:28I have awsome gunnery skills......My Gunnery sits at 5.x mil No offence but I wouldnt class 5.whatever mil SP in gunnery as awesome. Its plenty good enough for medium guns. I have barely 3m and fit tech 2 medium guns just fine with 4s in all primary and secondary skills for tech 2 medium lasers.[except traj analysis 2 and AWU 3] As far as i know Xori does not fly battleships, which would make 5m specialized into medium blasters quite impressive. ed: Actualy he just got large 5, but still quite strong for blasters. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Lab Technician071548 Originally by: Goumindong You must not read these boards, we get an "omh ferox sucks" thread about every other day. When the Drake first came out the majority of posts on the issue were "Welp, the Ferox is obsolete" P.S. The Hyperion is not stronger than the Megathron. It does less damage[due to drone bay], but tanks better, and its low locking range and short CPU makes it difficult to fit for sniping. Observing that the ferox is obsolete (except for the rare Caldari gunner), is a long way away from saying "nerf the drake!" That would be the correct analogy here. My argument, in fact, is that we should realize that the brutix SHOULD be obsolete, and yet it continues to sell and to be effective. Perhaps it's the Brutix that should be nerfed to bring it in line with the ferox's mediocrity. The Hyperion clearly out tanks the Megathron, which means that it can survive to bring blasters into the game. The Megathron is now just a Rokh wannabe. No, the difference is that the Ferox is not obsolete. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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