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Jamirie ironwood ink The Sundering	Posted - 2007.03.16 00:49:00 - [31] Yes Battleships may still be able to reach the same speeds with reduced inertia, but AFAIK most people use cap-injectors for PvP, and no cargo space = no cap charges for j00. Signatures made upon request, comes with free hosting, contact me in-game for a quote
Hait	Posted - 2007.03.16 01:11:00 - [32] Are intertia and mass treated separately in eve? Does one not affect the other? I've always had trouble understanding the difference between istabs and nanos (apart from the speed bonus).
Esurnir Amarr Bears Inc FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 01:15:00 - [33] It's tricky in fact, in real world the unit of inertia is .... kilogram. In game the reduced inertia means that you turn and accelerate faster (like irl). But the mass is used for the speed boost from afterburner/microwarpdrive. Where the speed boost is equal to "Speed Ammount""Thrust/Mass" The less mass, the higher thrust/mass, the bigger speed boost. ---- Quote:* Thou shall pew pew. Book of Revelation 12, 51
Moriden Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.03.16 01:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Amy Wang PS: I just realized this also fixes amarr as they can fit overdrives to their hearts content because they arent concerned by cargo space for ammo, so we can assume amarr is fixed now as well Ahh... not if you use Cap Injectors at all, you need lots of cargo for cap800s. This is especially true for Amarr due to there dependency on cap and also the prevalence of nos.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.03.16 01:47:00 - [35] Doesn't this hit the Nano / NOS Dominix pretty lightly? I'm not very familiar with the build, but I'd think it could go heavy on overdrives and not regret either the inertia or the lost cargo space much. I'm not really ****ing, no fix can be completely balanced, and I like this on pretty well. Still, it probably means more pressure for an NOS overhaul. (woot) * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.03.16 01:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr I hope thats not the only fix then. Crows doing 20k is still retarded. Anyone work out how fast a 9.5k Vaga/phoon will go after these changes? Assuming highgrade snakes. Explain to me how exactly a vagabond is a threat being a nano ship - given that its a gun boat.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.16 02:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Hockston Axe Well not bad, although you did mangage to kill my salvage BS Sounds like it's time to introduce Medium and Large tractor beams... Quote: and every indy that actually wants to carry some cargo. How about a speed mod now that doesn't kill cargo space? Rigs. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
jbob2000 Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 03:18:00 - [38] Finally, can we go back to actual tanking now? ________________________________ KIA Recruitment
Noraja	Posted - 2007.03.16 04:58:00 - [39] Tested a bit on Sisi with Ceptors and Cruisers. Fact is, the new stats for these Modules make sense. Nanofibers = less mass, Overdrives = more Speed, Inertias = well... inertia. The percentage values also favour the smaller ships. Claw + Nanofiber on TQ so far = 4-5% Speedbonus, where a Dominix gets a Bonus of 13-14%. And for those who say: "Oh noes, my Vaga/Ceptor/Dishes will be nerfed!" No they are not, they will become actually usable again, because a Nano-Phoon/Domi/whatever can't do the job anymore.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.16 05:36:00 - [40] The nerf is surprisingly good, even the nano-domi isn't that uber anymore - with 2 local overdrives you get little over cargo space. On my T2 tacklers though, where cargo space is not that important, i actually get more speed. As for the fittings ... replace i-stabbs with t2 nanofibers and add 1 local or t2 Overdrive. PS: I think they also nerfed the 15% to MWD efficiency rig. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.03.16 07:44:00 - [41] It's much easier to get frigs + dessys up to speed now, whereas big ships will lose agility if they want to remain fast. Great change.
Bangoura Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 07:55:00 - [42] Well as an out and out ceptor pilot it looks great to me. Given that people like me fly with very little killing power and virtually no tanking power we should be the fastest guys in the universe, I'm sick of phoons and the likes being able to keep up with me.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Doesn't this hit the Nano / NOS Dominix pretty lightly? I'm not very familiar with the build, but I'd think it could go heavy on overdrives and not regret either the inertia or the lost cargo space much. I'm not really *****ing, no fix can be completely balanced, and I like this on pretty well. Still, it probably means more pressure for an NOS overhaul. (woot) Not really. They are aparently stacking nerfed, which means that the bigger ships no longer benefit from having lots of lows over the smaller ships. As well, inertia means slower alligning, warping, movement, and the most important part Orbiting. So a nano-domi is going to be fast compared to a normal ship, but its going to get plunked by turreted battleships and it can be tackled now. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Fraile Cloudsinger Gallente Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:21:00 - [44] I've tested the overhaul with my nano dominix on SiSi, and the results were..um..not that impressive. Nano dominix pre nerf: 4km/s Gist-C MWD 4x Local hull nanofibers, 2 local hull iStabs 2x 10% speed rigs 1x 15% MWD rig Nano dominix on SiSi: 2.1km/s Same setup as above. New Nano dominix on SiSi: 2.9km/s 2x Local hull iStabs, 5x local hull overdrives 3x 15% mass reduction rigs Gist C-type MWD Max orbital speed at 20km orbit levels out at 2.2km/s, which is not enough to tank cruise missiles. Torps can be tanked, but they'll still hit for roughly 100 base damage. The most noticable effect is the agility nerf. Both the old and the new SiSi setups felt like they had ~the agility of a battlecruiser, I guess it takes 10 seconds to reach 90% of top speed with a dominix. The "problem" is that it doesn't really matter if you upgrate to HG snakes, gang mods and t2 overdrives/iStabs, because nano battleships' orbital speed will still be limited by the agility of the ships. Nano cruisers seems to be untouched by the changes, I guess a speed reduction of roughly 10%, and possibly a minor agility nerf, but that is it.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Hait Are intertia and mass treated separately in eve? Does one not affect the other? I've always had trouble understanding the difference between istabs and nanos (apart from the speed bonus). Aramendal explained that earlier in the thread, and the post after yours doesn't rly explain it at all; Originally by: Esurnir It's tricky in fact, in real world the unit of inertia is .... kilogram. In game the reduced inertia means that you turn and accelerate faster (like irl). But the mass is used for the speed boost from afterburner/microwarpdrive. Where the speed boost is equal to "Speed Ammount""Thrust/Mass" The less mass, the higher thrust/mass, the bigger speed boost. The answer is that each ship in EVE has an agility modifier, and this number is not listed in the show info ingame. Each ship also has a mass as you know, heh. 'agility modifier' 'mass' = number. And that is the number that is used to determine how agile you are. Modules with 'inertia bonus' change the 'agility modifier' above. Which means that as i-stabs on TQ gives 15% to both, an i-stab actually give you 0.85*0.85= 0.7225x = a 27.75% reduction to the number that matters. Now, mass is also used in the formula for MWD thrust. So, a mod changing your mass has a bonus to both how agile you are and your MWD speed. Hence why the new nanofiber has a smaller bonus than the new i-stab. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2007.03.16 08:46:00 - [46] Originally by: Fraile Cloudsinger I've tested the overhaul with my nano dominix on SiSi, and the results were..um..not that impressive. Nano dominix pre nerf: 4km/s Gist-C MWD 4x Local hull nanofibers, 2 local hull iStabs 2x 10% speed rigs 1x 15% MWD rig Nano dominix on SiSi: 2.1km/s Same setup as above. New Nano dominix on SiSi: 2.9km/s 2x Local hull iStabs, 5x local hull overdrives 3x 15% mass reduction rigs Gist C-type MWD Max orbital speed at 20km orbit levels out at 2.2km/s, which is not enough to tank cruise missiles. Torps can be tanked, but they'll still hit for roughly 100 base damage. The most noticable effect is the agility nerf. Both the old and the new SiSi setups felt like they had ~the agility of a battlecruiser, I guess it takes 10 seconds to reach 90% of top speed with a dominix. The "problem" is that it doesn't really matter if you upgrate to HG snakes, gang mods and t2 overdrives/iStabs, because nano battleships' orbital speed will still be limited by the agility of the ships. Nano cruisers seems to be untouched by the changes, I guess a speed reduction of roughly 10%, and possibly a minor agility nerf, but that is it. The only nano cruiser worth fitting is the Curse as all the rest have to stick in nos range to remain really viable, which means any bit of pilot error and they come into web range. Cruisers don't really have the slot layout to be true nanosetups, on the likes of the stabber you have to use your MWD in bursts to kite the enemy. Overall there will be a lot less nano-bs pilots (a GOOD thing, saying that I do still go out in my pimped out decked up nanophoon from time to time), and the ones you do see will be the ones with the decent billion+ setups, however their abilities will have been taken down a notch or two. Especially with the intertia nerf it will probably mean you only need to get one web on him once he has an orbit on the go and toast his ass. ------------ Request for Privateer Sticky! Keep the forums clean!
FawKa Gallente x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 09:18:00 - [47] Edited by: FawKa on 16/03/2007 09:15:03 Important thing to know now I guess: Do they stack or not ? - as that was mentioned in the same dev-blog. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM	Posted - 2007.03.16 09:42:00 - [48] they are stacking nerfed now, yes.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 09:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Martin Adeupname So... how does this work with agility skills such as evasive manoeuvring? Quickfit tells me that a ship with agility mod 1.00 and evasive manoeuvring IV will have an agility mod of 1.2. But that would mean that the overall agility, by agility mod * base inertia * inertia reductions, ends up being higher (ie, worse) than without evasive manoeuvring IV. Which obviously can't be right... Quickfit gives you incorrect numbers for many stats, including all speed/agility related ones. Not a good tool to "test" stuff. Personally I would only ever use it for "can this fit in the ship?" questions. Originally by: dalman The answer is that each ship in EVE has an agility modifier, and this number is not listed in the show info ingame. Each ship also has a mass as you know, heh. 'agility modifier' * 'mass' = number. And that is the number that is used to determine how agile you are.... You misunderstand him here a bit. What he is referring to is that in eve we have -mass and -inertia boni. However, in RL physics inertia is a direct result of mass. The only way to remove inertia is to remove mass. Which essentially means that the -inertia bonus is something impossible. There are other logical ways to improve a ships handling (i.e. additional maneuvering thrusters), though, so the best viewpoint is to assume that -inertia is "mislabeled". Or you could just throw this inconsistency on the huge pile of other mechanics which do not work like RL in eve
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:08:00 - [50] My stabber will have its role back again!! <3<3 ___________________________________
Gripen Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:18:00 - [51] Maybe it would be a good idea to reduce quite harsh signature penalty from Istabs now then they are not as usefull as before? Also, looks like they removed Propellant Injection Vent rigs. There is no entry for them in market.
Imechal Ravpeim International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:29:00 - [52] Just checked the prices on local hull overdrives... They went from about 1-2 to 7 mill in the last 24 hours... So much for my idea to buy them all off the market while they're cheap. Someone beat me to it.
jamesw Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim Just checked the prices on local hull overdrives... They went from about 1-2 to 7 mill in the last 24 hours... So much for my idea to buy them all off the market while they're cheap. Someone beat me to it. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:53:00 - [54] heh...I still have a stack of 50+ of those from my CHIMP days.
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.16 10:55:00 - [55] Wow.. amazing, they really fixed it without nefring all speed setups. Great ;] I guess it needs some testing and adjusting, but its a step in the right direction. Grats
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 16/03/2007 11:32:52 BAD Prefered the MWD nerf. MWD should never be able to be 100% of time ON. And this changes as someone already said, do not nerf drone boats.. The penalties are too harsh now. Now if I have 1 vacant low slot in my ship (as I usually have in my shield tanking ships) I cant put just one of thsoe modules, because the impact is HUGE. I would give like 12% cargo 7% signature and 10% hitpoint as penalties. Also make overdrives reduce DRONE cargo... If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Leandro Salazar Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:45:00 - [57] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan looks like agility is stacking nerfed. Not really that bad. The crow becomes less twitchy and more gracefull. Not bad? I guess you never use indies in lowsec... It is horrible. And I just tested it on Sisi, 8.77 secs to warp for my Sigil with 3 istabs, 8.79 with 5, so I guess they ARE stacking nerfed. I better get my bulk gear out of lowsec before this hits TQ... --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.16 11:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro What concerns me is the appearance of stacking penalties on all of those attributes. In other contexts, a stack implies that everything affecting a given attribute is penalised, so it seems that there are quite a few skills/items that may all affected by this change: Snake implants Other max velocity implants ab/mwd effects Ships that have a skill-based velocity bonus Navigation Evasive Maneuvering Spaceship Command Advanced Spaceship command Skirmish Warfare Effects from skills, implants and ship boni *NEVER* trigger a stacking penality. only effects from modules, rigs and gang assist mods trigegr stacking penalities. Quote: With agility, mass reduction and now apparently max velocity all stacking penalised, propellant injection vent rigs (+15% (+20% T2) to ab/mwd effect) would be seriously overpowered compared to all the other speed rigs. The only sensible options are to remove them, or to give that attribute a stacking penalty. Vents have a stacking penality of sisi already. AND are removed from the market. Although existing vents (and, more importantly, their BPOs) still remain if you bought them earlier, so I would guess the market removal was an error. Originally by: Leandro Salazar Is agility stacking nerfed now too? That would really suck for indies... Yes. Although the instabs give a pretty high agility bonus which cancels the stacking penality unless you use 4 or more. Fitting 2 mass rigs and 3 instabs gives you pretty much the same agility as you get now with 2 mass rigs and 3 nanos. Lower speed though.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.16 12:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr I hope thats not the only fix then. Crows doing 20k is still retarded. Anyone work out how fast a 9.5k Vaga/phoon will go after these changes? Assuming highgrade snakes. Explain to me how exactly a vagabond is a threat being a nano ship - given that its a gun boat. you never fought one? If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.03.16 12:18:00 - [60] Edited by: Azerrad InExile on 16/03/2007 12:16:04 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Maeltstome Explain to me how exactly a vagabond is a threat being a nano ship - given that its a gun boat. you never fought one? They run away. SCARY!!!

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