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Heavy Assault Missiles vs. Heavy Missiles

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Zattron	Posted - 2007.03.17 02:19:00 - [1] Has anyone gotten a successfule pvp setup using heavy assault missiles? The problem I have is that they use so much more power then heavy missiles that to fit them, you must sacrifice other mods (such as tanking mods). I have long awaited to get into a Cerberus, but now I realize that its powergrid SUCKS . It cant even successfully fit HAMs. I thought theat the Cerberus would be great with HAMS (because of the range bonuses), but it doesnt have the power required. So I looked at the navy caracal and for some CRAZY reason it has more power then a Cerb. (WHY WHY WHY). I was able to fit a HAM setup on the Navy caracal with a MWD and Large booster and warp disrupter of course, but it doesnt have the natural resists that the cerb has. I have also tried them on a Drake and was able to fit everything (by waisting a low slot with a reaction control), but it still doesnt seem to do the same damage that my Heavy missile drake does. So back to the original question. Has anyone fit a succesful HAM setup for pvp? If so what skills are required? Thanks
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.17 02:49:00 - [2] Drake is awesome platfor for hams, get awu 4 fit active tank + bcus/pdus in low and start killing --------
Arowe Telak Grave Diggers	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:03:00 - [3] Yeah the only good platforms for HAM's are really drakes and CN Caracals. The Nighthawk wouldn't be so bad either except only 1 of its 3 missle bonuses effects HAM's (Precision I can understand but why no damage bonus?), so there's not much point. They seriously need to take a look at fitting for these things, that or increase their dps to make them actually worth it. As it stands most ships need rcu's and significant tanking trade-offs to fit HAM's when usually its better just to fit heavies and replace the rcu's with bcu's. You get similar dps and a much better tank. Sigs are overrated.
Zattron	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:10:00 - [4] Edited by: Zattron on 17/03/2007 03:08:37 Thanks for your opinions so far. The drake seems like the only option, but its so big and slow. Other opinions would be appreciated. Also if you have a setup please post your fittings here. Why couldnt the devs make it so that cerbs can use HAMs. They would be the perfect ship for it. Ive had my eyes set on a Cerb HAM setup since revelations came out and THIS revelation just ruined all my great plans .
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:36:00 - [5] My HAM setup for a Drake. 7 x HAM launcher (limos) 3 x V-M15 Invuln Field 1 x 20km Scram 2 x LSE (supp. screen) 1 x anything that doens't need grid (I used a sensor booster) 1 x BCS 1 x PDU 2 x SPR 5 x Light ECM drones All T1, nice 'n' cheap. Works best in a gang, I can't think of much in Eve that is slower and isn't a capital. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.17 03:41:00 - [6] Edited by: Wrayeth on 17/03/2007 03:41:07 Originally by: Arowe Telak The Nighthawk wouldn't be so bad either except only 1 of its 3 missle bonuses effects HAM's (Precision I can understand but why no damage bonus?), so there's not much point. Actually, ALL of the nighthawk's missile bonuses affect HAMs. Nighthawk HAM setup: 6 HAM II 1 Y-T8 10mn MWD 1 large shield booster II (or faction) 1 faint 20km scrambler 1 medium electrochemical cap injector 1 invulnerability field II 3 ballistic control II 2 reactor control II 2 rigs of your choice 576 DPS with rage HAMs, command ships 4, warhead upgrades 4, rapid launch 5 and HAM spec 4. Cerb HAM setup: 5 HAM II 1 small nos 1 Y-T8 10mn MWD 1 faint 20km scrambler (I think this setup has enough to run a tech II, but I haven't tried) 2 LSE II 1 photon scattering field II 2 ballistic control II 2 reactor control II IIRC, you can fit a third damage mod if you switch the MWD for an AB. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Vellaron	Posted - 2007.03.17 07:03:00 - [7] They basically doubled the stats of rockets and rocket launchers, except for the range which doesnt make sense to me. CCP should add 50-100% range and 10% more damage.
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.17 08:53:00 - [8] I agree that HAMs need more range. Personally, I'd like to see about 5-10km more range for T1 HAMs, then everything would be fine. Unfortunately, it seems they're balanced around the range they get from the cerb and other ships with a missile velocity bonus, which makes them very difficult to use on any ship that doesn't have that bonus. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.17 11:16:00 - [9] HAMs are like missile blasters right? Well Caldari have pretty poor grid as it is, there's no really decent fitting that can be applied to a Caldari ship that involves both HAMs, a MWD and a tank of some sort. They need to cut the grid reqs of HAM Launchers to 80 or something. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.03.17 12:00:00 - [10] Yes - HEAVY ASSAULT MISSILES is a CLOSE RANGE missile working best aginst CRUISER CLASS+... The Drake unless fitted for some speed is not the best option - You should try fit a Caracal or Cerberus (range bonus) and you'll discover the true evil of close range weapons going 20km+ Obviously the Caracal is weak and the Cerberus not entirely cheap, but they are the best to use... Drake is cool ofcourse but it'll limit your PG too much and you need to get in range to utilize them properly. Pinky I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...

Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.03.17 13:51:00 - [11] The only ship I bother to use HAMs on is the CN Caracal. Every other ship I have tried to fit with them doesn seem to work out. Drake is too slow Caracal has no grid My CNC has a weak tank, but I built it to kill frigates, destroyers and other crusiers and it works great in that respect. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Dragy Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.17 13:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Marquis Dean My HAM setup for a Drake. 7 x HAM launcher (limos) 3 x V-M15 Invuln Field 1 x 20km Scram 2 x LSE (supp. screen) 1 x anything that doens't need grid (I used a sensor booster) 1 x BCS 1 x PDU 2 x SPR 5 x Light ECM drones All T1, nice 'n' cheap. Works best in a gang, I can't think of much in Eve that is slower and isn't a capital. Since when drake has 7 med slots ?
Marquis Dean The Last Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2007.03.17 14:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Marquis Dean My HAM setup for a Drake. 7 x HAM launcher (limos) 3 x V-M15 Invuln Field 1 x 20km Scram 2 x LSE (supp. screen) 1 x anything that doens't need grid (I used a sensor booster) 1 x BCS 1 x PDU 2 x SPR 5 x Light ECM drones All T1, nice 'n' cheap. Works best in a gang, I can't think of much in Eve that is slower and isn't a capital. Since when drake has 7 med slots ? Hm, you're right. Er... lose that random thingy then. Or the scram if in gang. --- Originally by: Foopadoo Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
Jamius	Posted - 2007.03.17 14:50:00 - [14] Edited by: Jamius on 17/03/2007 14:47:54 The drake is a fine ship with HAM's. Just make sure and fit a MWD. It's my fav low sec pirating ship setup at the moment. I've not done a mathematical comparison but I do think the grid requirements need lowered and/or damage need to be increased slightly for HAM's to make them totally worthwhile over normal heavies. Range should stay as it is. But I can safely say the drake with HAM's is a sound ship, capable of plenty, including gate sentry tanking for short periods (don't try taking on any well setup BC's or above though). btw - I've discovered the caracal does not get it's missile speed bonus to HAM's which would normally take the range to just above or below 20Km depending on skills (an obviously ideal range) - meant to post a bug but havent bothered yet.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.03.17 15:00:00 - [15] I'm hoping the revamped sacrilige will be a good platform for HAMs.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.17 19:01:00 - [16] Are you sure about the Caracal HAM-bonus because last time I tried it seemed to work? Maybe I should make sure... - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
SauronTheMage Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.18 04:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Wrayeth Actually, ALL of the nighthawk's missile bonuses affect HAMs. Actually that is wrong. Although you do get the Kin dmg bonus, you do NOT get the precision bonus on the HAMs. Both heavy and HAM base radius is 125... I put the HAM on my nighthawk and get 100.... I put the heavy on my nighthawk and get around 80-85.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.18 05:26:00 - [18] HAMs were put in for the Minmatar...not the Caldari. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Star Commander Got Corp?
Wrayeth Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.18 06:13:00 - [19] Originally by: SauronTheMage Actually that is wrong. Although you do get the Kin dmg bonus, you do NOT get the precision bonus on the HAMs. Both heavy and HAM base radius is 125... I put the HAM on my nighthawk and get 100.... I put the heavy on my nighthawk and get around 80-85. You're forgetting the guided missile precision skill. That affects heavies and not HAMs. That's the reason you're seeing a greater reduction with heavy missiles than with HAMs. The fact that the HAM radius went down at all is purely because of the nighthawk's bonus. Don't believe me? Slap some HAMs on a caracal, then look at them. You'll notice the explosion radius at 125. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Zattron	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:52:00 - [20] /bump Anyone else with any HAM setups?

Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.03.19 08:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Thor Xian HAMs were put in for the Minmatar...not the Caldari. True! /me runs off to polish the stabber, WHICH NANO NERF MADE USEFULL AGAIN \o/ ___________________________________
Zattron	Posted - 2007.03.19 09:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Thor Xian HAMs were put in for the Minmatar...not the Caldari. True! /me runs off to polish the stabber, WHICH NANO NERF MADE USEFULL AGAIN \o/ were they really intended for minmitar? Whats a minmitar setup using hams?
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2007.03.19 09:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Zattron Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Thor Xian HAMs were put in for the Minmatar...not the Caldari. True! /me runs off to polish the stabber, WHICH NANO NERF MADE USEFULL AGAIN \o/ were they really intended for minmitar? Whats a minmitar setup using hams? Well atm, people choose nos, but a few people like to fit HAMs in there last few slots that guns cant fit in, such as the hurricane has 8 highs, but only 6 turrets, so 2 HAMs go thier :) I find HAMs useful on a Drake in gangs, but the thing is, with the ROF bonus the Nighthawk and Cerberus get, you actually only get a little less dps from heavy missiles, yet unlike HAMs you get good range and precision. Although I do love javelin HAMs :) Problem is, the lauchers are like 6M each, making them expensive.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.03.19 09:24:00 - [24] They were put into game for all cruisers with missiles slots - until we had it missile cruisers had no real close range option. We had assault launchers with light missiles but they only had the same DPS as rockets (though with greater ranges and ability to utilize from being guided missiles). HAMs has been needed for a long time and are great for a number of cruisersized vessels - on slow caldari vessels they are best with a range bonus, but even a mwd can perform miracles... Just remember HAMs don't have falloff According to calculations they should have 25% more raw dps than heavy launchers. In comparison I think Neutron Blasters do around 40% more damage than heavies, but I cannot remember what ammunition I was using when I calculated. - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Mole Skin	Posted - 2007.03.19 09:55:00 - [25] I always thought that HAMs are for cruiser what rockets are for frigates, i.e. additions to a close-combat setup with auto cannons or other short range weapons, for example? Am I wrong here?
Raekone	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:23:00 - [26] Good job its lunch because you're making me hungry
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.19 10:44:00 - [27] Even on a drake i prefer the heavy launchers. The HAM have around 25% more dps, and the launchers are much cheaper then heavy launchers (eg: the arbalest heavy costs around 10x as much as the arbalest heavy assault), but there are many drawbacks: 1. They need more powergrid(will be hard to use them with a passive tank) 2. The range is very limited (something below 15km as max range on drake) 3. The missile speed is much lower 4. The skill for explosion radius (the one where you get more dmg at ships with small signature) seems not to apply. 2+3+4 means they will be very bad against frigates (which not only will get hit less caus of the small signature radius, but have a much better chance to simply fly out of missile range).
Ashurian Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Mole Skin I always thought that HAMs are for cruiser what rockets are for frigates No, they would be for cruiser what torps are for BS, but actually they aren't working in that way... IMO
Shannaria Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.19 12:52:00 - [29] HAMs are designed for all missile using ships use, they are a heavy missile based rocket designed for anti-close combat ships... consider it this way.. you are in your drake and a gallente/minmatar/close combat ship engages you... you unleash these puppies and they rip a hole right through their target :)
Battlecheese Caldari Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.19 13:34:00 - [30] I think lots of people make the mistake of trying to solo-pvp in Caldari ships, when it really just doesn't work. Heavy Assault missiles work much better (imho) as a deterrant to close range combat (blaster ships etc), to enforce an acceptable range so that the other ships can do their dps. Tackling is a separate problem. We do not really have any solution better than a few condors or griffins to hold the targets stationary while they get pwned from 100km away.



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