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Nidhoggur
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.18 14:34:00 -
[1]
I was out flying my Vigilant today, and while I was gazing at my setup, a few things became apparent.
The setup was a mix of T2 and Faction Mods, where I felt they were necessary.
My point is very simple. The Faction Mods outperformed the T2 mods in every way. They are better mods, with better stats, worth more, and avaliable to lower skill levels. Why then, is my Vigilant not the same way? It is a faction ship, and yet is evidently poorer than the T2 version of the same ship.
In simple terms, this can be expressed as:
T1 Mods < T2 Mods < Faction Mods
T1 Ships < Faction Ships < T2 Ships
So why the difference?
It would seem to me that the T2 ships of every variety were introduced after the faction ships, and so made more powerful, while the faction ships did not recieve an update, which really, its high time they had.
Thoughts/Opinions?
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DarkElf
Caldari
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.03.18 14:45:00 -
[2]
mmmmmmmmm
no i think they are ok as they are tbh. faction ships generally have more hp, an extra bonus or something different bonus related and an extra slot. at work so can't remember now but doesn't the vigilant have 4 mids compared to the deimos's 3? been ages since i flew one so forgive me if i'm wrong. if true that's a real nice bonus
DE
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.18 14:48:00 -
[3]
Just the way it is. . . Faction cruisers and frigs (and BS, kinda) are more for show off than cost effectiveness.
The Ashimmu, for instance, is like a sort of Curse/Rapier cross that isn't really as good as either overall, but still costs like 90mil (that's very rough, I haven't checked recently).
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.18 14:50:00 -
[4]
Not quite true. T2 guns > T1 or factions.
T2 ammo opens up a whole new load of possibilities for damage, and additionally are the only ones to benefit from the 10% DPS boost of the spec skill.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
International Multi-Player Consortium
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.18 15:07:00 -
[5]
Get min cruiser 4-5(if you don't) and you'll see a nice bonus the vigilant gets, actually gains cap from fitting a mwd. Something I don't believe a deimos really gets.
Not to mention it looks sexier.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.18 15:09:00 -
[6]
Faction ships are still tech 1 ships, wich is why they cannot be compared to tech 2 ships wich are if we think gameplay wise are different level of technology.
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Nidhoggur
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Nidhoggur on 18/03/2007 18:43:02
 Originally by: DarkElf
mmmmmmmmm
no i think they are ok as they are tbh. faction ships generally have more hp, an extra bonus or something different bonus related and an extra slot. at work so can't remember now but doesn't the vigilant have 4 mids compared to the deimos's 3? been ages since i flew one so forgive me if i'm wrong. if true that's a real nice bonus
DE
Yes indeed. And an extra bonus when compared to a Thorax. Although undoubtedly the Deimos is a better ship, with better resists and double damage bonuses.
Don't get me wrong though. This is not a thread about how rubbish the Vigilant is - anything but. And this is not honing in on a particular ship at all. It's merely that the faction ships are not as good as the t2 ships, while the faction mods are better than t2.
Originally by: Zhaine
Just the way it is. . . Faction cruisers and frigs (and BS, kinda) are more for show off than cost effectiveness.
Hmm. The idea of cost effectiveness is not important - No-one buys a Core X-Type LAR because they think its going to help them kill 500mils worth of other ships.
But the Core X-Type (Using this as an example, seeing as I've already mentioned it) does notably improve combat potential over a standard T2.
So they should be better, no matter what the cost.
Originally by: Dahak2150
Not quite true. T2 guns > T1 or factions
Okay, but let's not split hairs. The faction guns have better stats, mind.
Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus
Get min cruiser 4-5(if you don't) and you'll see a nice bonus the vigilant gets, actually gains cap from fitting a mwd. Something I don't believe a deimos really gets.
Yes, it's nice, and makes the ship a bit quirky and interesting, but it hardly makes the ship better for combat than the Deimos.
Originally by: n0thing
Faction ships are still tech 1 ships, wich is why they cannot be compared to tech 2 ships wich are if we think gameplay wise are different level of technology.
Yes, thats the standard answer... But please explain to me why the Core X-Type LAR is so superior to the LAR II, if the LAR II is so much more advanced.
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:50:00 -
[8]
noone's forcing you to buy them... And faction BS pwn
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Cpt Abestos
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.18 18:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nidhoggur
Edited by: Nidhoggur on 18/03/2007 18:43:02
Originally by: DarkElf
mmmmmmmmm
no i think they are ok as they are tbh. faction ships generally have more hp, an extra bonus or something different bonus related and an extra slot. at work so can't remember now but doesn't the vigilant have 4 mids compared to the deimos's 3? been ages since i flew one so forgive me if i'm wrong. if true that's a real nice bonus
DE
I don't know the price of vigilants now a days but when vigilants were like 70mil and deimoses 150mil. The vigilant was a better ship for the isk and the 4th mid helps alot.
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:32:00 -
[10]
Faction T2 ships anyone?
Faction T2 > T2 > Faction T1 > T1?
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:32:00 -
[11]
Faction T2 ships anyone?
Faction T2 > T2 > Faction T1 > T1?
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente
The Underground
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:39:00 -
[12]
I think it is like this:
T1 < faction < T2 < Officer
That is how things work, so far there rae no officer ships so T2 would be the best.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente
The Underground
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:39:00 -
[13]
I think it is like this:
T1 < faction < T2 < Officer
That is how things work, so far there rae no officer ships so T2 would be the best.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.18 22:22:00 -
[14]
Edited by: n0thing on 18/03/2007 22:20:40
Deadspace item is not connected to faction ships. If you take a look at regular faction items they are barely better then T2 ones, officer modified items maybe better few % over T2, but faction ship is not on this level. And its surely not at deadspace level wich considered some undiscovered technology or something.
Faction ship is just like shadow serpentis medium armor rep. Its better then T2 only in terms of skill reqs. And imo, thats how its should be, they may have more overall hp or more slots, but T2 should stay at the top having more bonuses for more skill reqs and more resistances as more advanced and more skill consuming pieces of equipment.
If you want it in a line:
Regular faction < T2=<Officer modified < Deadspace
Also, mods are only relatively better then T2 ones, if you take a look at mods that are better then t2 ones they need alot more powergrid and cpu or capacitor need. T2 guns are surely better then faction ones, i think even top officer gun gives less damage then all-lvl5 T2 gun with T2 ammo.
Tech levels should not be tied to faction levels, since tech level is player one and shouldnt be also put into npc`s. And as for your previous post, T2 guns do have better stats after skills applied like i said, also, regular faction guns i beleive have same stats as best named ones or just slightly better but once again, without t2 specialization skills.
Moreover, you dont want those future Flagships(T2 BS), be outclassed by faction BS?
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Sable Moran
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.19 11:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nidhoggur
T1 Ships < Faction Ships < T2 Ships
Which is intended. So your complaint lacks basis.
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Bailian Moxtain
Toys R Us
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Posted - 2007.03.19 12:03:00 -
[16]
The problem with the vigilant (got one myself) is the powergrid and cpu. I realy love Heavy T2 Ions, but with those i cant fit a cap injector in the extra med-slot. I hate electrons, thats why i fly rax mostly instead of the vigilant in pvp. I bought mine just cos i think it look nice 
- made in Norway - |
Imechal Ravpeim
International Multi-Player Consortium
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.19 12:16:00 -
[17]
Price has nothing to do with cost effectiveness in this game. It's a player driven market. If someone will pay 500mill for that core-x LAR then someone will sell to that person. There is no set price.
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Dreshi
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Posted - 2007.03.21 21:19:00 -
[18]
All other things being equal, if I see a deimos, if should run away in my vigilant?
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente
The Underground
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Posted - 2007.03.21 21:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dreshi
All other things being equal, if I see a deimos, if should run away in my vigilant?
deimos !> Vigilant
a T1 thorax can beat a Deimos, all depends on pilots, skills, and modules.
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Dreshi
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Posted - 2007.03.21 21:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vincent Almasy
Originally by: Dreshi
All other things being equal, if I see a deimos, if should run away in my vigilant?
deimos !> Vigilant
a T1 thorax can beat a Deimos, all depends on pilots, skills, and modules.
Ok, but "pilots, skills, and modules" are the same, then?
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Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 22:08:00 -
[21]
You guys are confusing Faction mods with Deadspace mods :p
If you had a Core X-Type Thorax, or Gist X-Type Tempest, they would vastly outperform any T2 ships of their class
They'd probably cost about as much as a mothership, but they'd be as close to solo pwnmobiles as you could get. (think SIR or TIT without the rarity)
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Originally by: Uncle Chop Chop
Harden the **** up
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