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A story for miners and a request to CCP

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Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 19:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 19:34:11 So over the past few weeks I have enjoyed my return to empire by mining every single day. I like to mine, its peaceful after all. I found this great little .5 system that didnÆt have a station, and I thought great, no one will come here, and I can have the belts all to myself. Unfortunately for me, it was also the gateway to an 0.0 system which of course meant a lot of traffic. So of course some eventually noticed my presense and decided to do the old can switch thing on me. This of course is no big deal to me because I use a dedicated hauler so there was only 6k m3 in the can at the time. (I should mention at this point the guy is in a crow) So he tries to ransom the can for 18mil which of course is laughable at best. So I decide I will fix this guy and fitted my hauler for scram and web and armor tank and steal my ore back. (I should also mention that I was mining with 2 apocÆs and 1 rohk and had 10 t2 med drones between the three ships) So I warp the hauler in and steal the ore back. The guy comes in to kill the hauler as I expected, but little did I know that there were 3 force recon buddies cloaked in the belt with meà DOH. Pop goes the hauler. Only a couple mil no biggie, live in learnà. Well again I decide to not take this lying down and decide to pop the haulerÆs wreck. I was in a gang at the time with the hauler and was in different corps as well. I figured this should be ok since the wreck was white and we were in a gang (not to mention the fact that when in gangs looting and salvaging wrecks is no biggie). But oh was I so wrongà in the process the apoc in question gets globally flagged and I get nuked by concordà  Now its starting to sting alittle. In any case I mange to get the pods out fine, because that would have really suck to loose 2 +3 sets in one nightà silver lining somewhere thankfully. Anyway, all this to say how dumb the current game mechanics are. First I would like to address the ôflaggingö system. We all know how useless this system is and instead of helping to protect miners has actually seemed to put them more at risk. This system of course was CCP attempt to address ore theft, but yet again was another case of CCP addressing the symptom of a problem instead of the cause. So here is what I suggest: First, the jet can problem is a problem because secure cans arenÆt nearly big enough to satisfy the speed and logistics of any large scale mining op. People would have to deploy three- four giant secures at every spot they mine at to be safe (partly because large scale ops fill cans very quickly, doing 10k in a few minutes is nothing, and dedicated haulers donÆt always fix the problem either as there is down time between the belt and the station). This doesnÆt make much sense from a game play perspective as neither mission runners nor npcers have to be tied down in such a way. To fix this I suggest that three new types of secure containers be added to the game. A 10k secure can A 15k secure can And a 20k secure can These three cans would not be the standard cans (ala giant secures) Meaning that you get no space or haulage benefits for them. They have a lot of purposes that this game currently needs. First, for safety of assets mining in space. Second, better organizational tools in hangers without having to resort to using freighter cans to do everything. Third, a smaller divisional unit for freighter pilots to use when trying to divide up cargo in the hold. 120k is just simply too big to solve all major problems. Further, it also helps the hauling courier industry as people can give these cans to freighter pilots without having to worry that their contents will be messed with.(also need to consider not being able to reproc secure cans without a password) In fact for freighters alone I would suggest changing the general freight container to a secure one (without space bonuses of course) and make at least one more additionà A 50k secure can.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 19:34:00 - [2] This of course would be the simple, easy and wise route to take. The next route to take would be to boost the flagging system in favor of the victim. What needs to happen is that when someone steals something from you and is red flagged, any action you take against him will have no consequences for your. For example if the person is flagged against you and you take the ore from the can he just made you are not flagged to him or his buddies. Further, a thief must act alone. If any action is taken against him by someone else in the victimÆs gang then that person doesnÆt get flagged to either the thief or the thiefÆs gang. Of course said adjustments wonÆt even be needed to the flagging system if the secure can group would be properly filled, because then miners could use the secure cans and the flagging system would be useless.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:38:00 - [3] Originally by: Riley Craven This of course would be the simple, easy and wise route to take. The next route to take would be to boost the flagging system in favor of the victim. What needs to happen is that when someone steals something from you and is red flagged, any action you take against him will have no consequences for your. For example if the person is flagged against you and you take the ore from the can he just made you are not flagged to him or his buddies. Further, a thief must act alone. If any action is taken against him by someone else in the victimÆs gang then that person doesnÆt get flagged to either the thief or the thiefÆs gang. Of course said adjustments wonÆt even be needed to the flagging system if the secure can group would be properly filled, because then miners could use the secure cans and the flagging system would be useless. You do realize that the can flagging system was suggested by the very miners you are trying to speak for, right? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Riley Craven This of course would be the simple, easy and wise route to take. The next route to take would be to boost the flagging system in favor of the victim. What needs to happen is that when someone steals something from you and is red flagged, any action you take against him will have no consequences for your. For example if the person is flagged against you and you take the ore from the can he just made you are not flagged to him or his buddies. Further, a thief must act alone. If any action is taken against him by someone else in the victimÆs gang then that person doesnÆt get flagged to either the thief or the thiefÆs gang. Of course said adjustments wonÆt even be needed to the flagging system if the secure can group would be properly filled, because then miners could use the secure cans and the flagging system would be useless. You do realize that the can flagging system was suggested by the very miners you are trying to speak for, right? /Ki Well I am not sure that they spefically all asked for that solution, I am sure that they would have rathered a sytem that actually protected them isntead of one that offers no advantages over the old system.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Riley Craven Well I am not sure that they spefically all asked for that solution, I am sure that they would have rathered a sytem that actually protected them isntead of one that offers no advantages over the old system. But it offers them a CHOICE to protect themselves. As you apparently did not know how agression timers work in Empire you got to feel the business end of a concord gun, but for a smart () miner, he can use the can flagging system to get back at an ore thief. Before can flagging was introduced the miner could do nothing. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Riley Craven Well I am not sure that they spefically all asked for that solution, I am sure that they would have rathered a sytem that actually protected them isntead of one that offers no advantages over the old system. But it offers them a CHOICE to protect themselves. As you apparently did not know how agression timers work in Empire you got to feel the business end of a concord gun, but for a smart () miner, he can use the can flagging system to get back at an ore thief. Before can flagging was introduced the miner could do nothing. /Ki Lol, first, its not much of a choice as there is no way to defend against a fully pvp fit ship while your in a mining ship. Second you like everyone else need to learn to read better. I didnt loose the apoc becuase of agression timers. I lost the apoc because I nuked the hauler wreck. Apparently this is either a bug or a loop hole CCP forgot to mention, because while in a gang you dont get flagged for looting or salvaging a wreck that someone else made.
Wan Bai	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:05:00 - [7] I don't understand why moving another can's content into your can doesn't flag for aggro. It's still stealing.
Saint Lazarus	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Wan Bai I don't understand why moving another can's content into your can doesn't flag for aggro. It's still stealing. It does :insert cool signature here:
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Riley Craven Lol, first, its not much of a choice as there is no way to defend against a fully pvp fit ship while your in a mining ship. No, but it's not too hard to keep a combat fitted ship with you when you mine. You just have to make sure it's in the same corp as the one who drops the can, or you can have the combat ship drop the can, thus flagging the ore thief to it. Originally by: Riley Craven Second you like everyone else need to learn to read better. I didnt loose the apoc becuase of agression timers. I lost the apoc because I nuked the hauler wreck. Apparently this is either a bug or a loop hole CCP forgot to mention, because while in a gang you dont get flagged for looting or salvaging a wreck that someone else made. Ok, I will refrase. You don't know how criminal flagging works. Fact remains, you made a mistake because you didn't know shooting the wreck would cause you to be criminally flagged and thus popped by CONCORD. It's not a bug, and it's not a loop hole. Just keep everyone in the same corp and you can pop the wrecks to your hearts content. Being in the same gang just keeps you from getting agressed to each other for looting each other's wrecks/cans. Point being, just because you don't know how the system works, doesn't mean it's not working. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:36:00 - [10] Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 21:33:28 Originally by: Ki An No, but it's not too hard to keep a combat fitted ship with you when you mine. You just have to make sure it's in the same corp as the one who drops the can, or you can have the combat ship drop the can, thus flagging the ore thief to it. Well seems kinda stupid in empire dont you think... its supposed to be "safe" space afterall. My point is that the flagging system isnt really needed at all. Adding bigger secure cans would solve the problem completely. Originally by: Ki An Ok, I will refrase. You don't know how criminal flagging works. Fact remains, you made a mistake because you didn't know shooting the wreck would cause you to be criminally flagged and thus popped by CONCORD. It's not a bug, and it's not a loop hole. Just keep everyone in the same corp and you can pop the wrecks to your hearts content. Being in the same gang just keeps you from getting agressed to each other for looting each other's wrecks/cans. Point being, just because you don't know how the system works, doesn't mean it's not working. Granted I didnt know that blowing up a wreck would criminally flag me, this would seem like a rather stupid thing to have in game. You can loot a wreck and you can salvage it without getting flagged... but you cant blow it up? While this might have been intentional it seems rather stupid as blowing it up serves the same purpose of looting/salvaging it. Again all that being said, none of this matters with bigger secure cans. Which, interestingly enough, was the real problem in the first place.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:39:00 - [11] Crikey, you have a point. All the inflation and updates, secure cans remained unchanged. It would be nice if CCP could give us super size secure cans. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:43:00 - [12] Edited by: Ki An on 18/03/2007 21:40:22 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 21:33:28 Originally by: Ki An No, but it's not too hard to keep a combat fitted ship with you when you mine. You just have to make sure it's in the same corp as the one who drops the can, or you can have the combat ship drop the can, thus flagging the ore thief to it. Well seems kinda stupid in empire dont you think... its supposed to be "safe" space afterall. Wrong. It's not, nor ever was, supposed to be "safe" space. It's safer than low- or nul sec, but it's not safe. Jet can mining without a guard is done at risk, that risk being ore thieves. You can mitigate that risk by using a guard. If you chose not to because you think it's "stupid", that is your choice. Just don't cry about it when bad stuff happens. And as for popping wrecks not of your corp, it is like that to keep people from abusing the system. A lot of grief could be caused if that rule wasn't in place. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Jayson Lee	Posted - 2007.03.18 21:57:00 - [13] Does concord come knock on your door if you steal from another persons wreck and/ or salvage it?
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:07:00 - [14] You could mine into a secure can and have your hauler swap stuff into the cargo hold. January's Film
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Jayson Lee Does concord come knock on your door if you steal from another persons wreck and/ or salvage it? No.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Ki An Edited by: Ki An on 18/03/2007 21:40:22 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 21:33:28 Originally by: Ki An No, but it's not too hard to keep a combat fitted ship with you when you mine. You just have to make sure it's in the same corp as the one who drops the can, or you can have the combat ship drop the can, thus flagging the ore thief to it. Well seems kinda stupid in empire dont you think... its supposed to be "safe" space afterall. Wrong. It's not, nor ever was, supposed to be "safe" space. It's safer than low- or nul sec, but it's not safe. Jet can mining without a guard is done at risk, that risk being ore thieves. You can mitigate that risk by using a guard. If you chose not to because you think it's "stupid", that is your choice. Just don't cry about it when bad stuff happens. And as for popping wrecks not of your corp, it is like that to keep people from abusing the system. A lot of grief could be caused if that rule wasn't in place. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. /Ki Oh really... if it wasnt supposed to be "safe" space then why does concord exist... Further Jet cans were never supposed to be used as they are now. CCP's line of argument was always to use secure cans... however few to no ever does because they are not an effective solution. Notice no wear that I am crying about my losses, trust me they were easily replaced... I have only offered a story, and further a solution that is reasonable that will solve this problem once and for all. As for as popping wrecks, I agree with the grief... but you miss one key point, thats not supposed to matter if you are in the same gang. If your stupid enough to let a thief in your gang... well thats your problem.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:13:00 - [17] Originally by: AlleyKat You could mine into a secure can and have your hauler swap stuff into the cargo hold. Hmm, seems like we have another person that cant read on our hands. I specificly mentioned this solution knowing full well some fool would bring it. As I have previously stated this is not an effective solution as the cans are too small to effectively fill this role.
Santa Claw Federation of Synthetic Persons YouWhat	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Riley Craven Lol, first, its not much of a choice as there is no way to defend against a fully pvp fit ship while your in a mining ship. The solution to that problem is quite simple. Get a frend or two with PvP Ships to protect you. Eve is a multiplayer game so not everything is desigend to work 100% solo.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Santa Claw Originally by: Riley Craven Lol, first, its not much of a choice as there is no way to defend against a fully pvp fit ship while your in a mining ship. The solution to that problem is quite simple. Get a frend or two with PvP Ships to protect you. Eve is a multiplayer game so not everything is desigend to work 100% solo. I wouldnt classify 3 miners and a hauler solo... but what ever. Its not like Mission runners need protection in empire... why should miners.
Jamikest The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:46:00 - [20] Edited by: Jamikest on 18/03/2007 22:45:29 Edited by: Jamikest on 18/03/2007 22:44:50 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 21:33:28 Well seems kinda stupid in empire dont you think... its supposed to be "safe" space afterall. My point is that the flagging system isnt really needed at all. Adding bigger secure cans would solve the problem completely. Granted I didnt know that blowing up a wreck would criminally flag me, this would seem like a rather stupid thing to have in game. You can loot a wreck and you can salvage it without getting flagged... but you cant blow it up? While this might have been intentional it seems rather stupid as blowing it up serves the same purpose of looting/salvaging it. Again all that being said, none of this matters with bigger secure cans. Which, interestingly enough, was the real problem in the first place. First, looting from someone else's wreck, who is not in your corp or your gang does flag them. Therefore, they have 'rights' to that wreck and it only makes perfect sense that shooting it gets you Concorded. Second, the very people who have developed this game have stated that 'hi sec' is NOT SAFE SPACE. Only SAFER. Lastly, creating nice safe cans to mine into for the enjoyment of miners will only serve to make your life harder! Think about it. Now all those macro miners you compete against have a total get out of jail free pass. No one can mess with them. Mineral prices will plummet, and you will be mining for pennies.
Jayson Lee Minmatar Universal Exports Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Santa Claw Originally by: Riley Craven Lol, first, its not much of a choice as there is no way to defend against a fully pvp fit ship while your in a mining ship. The solution to that problem is quite simple. Get a frend or two with PvP Ships to protect you. Eve is a multiplayer game so not everything is desigend to work 100% solo. I dont think those ships could protect you as well as you think. Its too easy to pop a mining ship or barge quickly and then leave before your escort has time to respond. I have seen several good suggestions on how to fix this but its not part of this topic.
Hypatia Iola Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:00:00 - [22] Edited by: Hypatia Iola on 18/03/2007 22:58:02 let me say now that by and large i am an ore thief. A selective ore thief but one nonetheless. I'd honestly, however, like to see the larger secure containers come into existence anyway because it would make hauling easier (ride up, scoop the can whole, fly off) and mining safer. now before i hear a ton of people say "Eve isn't safe" i agree 100%. so, what I personally think is that attacking non-player objects shouldn't concorde flag you. Give the cans a fair amount of HP. Like BC or even low end BS(i know it's a big jump) level. Why you ask? well it's simple: by giving it substantial HP you give the miner time to actually get a PvP-buddy/alt in system to help you, Plus if he doesn't have a buddy/alt, you give a realistic ransom opportunities to ore thieves. Now i know EVERYONE basically hates me at this point, Miners: WTF you can shoot out loot without getting the boot?!? Thieves(like me): WTF how are we supposed to steal if he has time to get his gun-toting lunatic alt out to wipe me off the face of Eve? the answer is: Miners: yes we can, it's up to you to protect yourselves. I agree that you haven't really got options at this point as things tend to move too fast for you to react effectively. this would slow things down a bit. Thieves: The biggest reason i suggest this is because most of the time when i steal i'm looking for a fight, and profit is just a bonus. this also means you can stick specifically to your real fight ships and nopt ever have to worry about actually selling the loot (via ransom) so to the OP, signed if you'll sign my idea.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:27:00 - [23] Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 23:34:52 Originally by: Jamikest Edited by: Jamikest on 18/03/2007 22:55:11 Edited by: Jamikest on 18/03/2007 22:45:29 Edited by: Jamikest on 18/03/2007 22:44:50 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/03/2007 21:33:28 Well seems kinda stupid in empire dont you think... its supposed to be "safe" space afterall. My point is that the flagging system isnt really needed at all. Adding bigger secure cans would solve the problem completely. Granted I didnt know that blowing up a wreck would criminally flag me, this would seem like a rather stupid thing to have in game. You can loot a wreck and you can salvage it without getting flagged... but you cant blow it up? While this might have been intentional it seems rather stupid as blowing it up serves the same purpose of looting/salvaging it. Again all that being said, none of this matters with bigger secure cans. Which, interestingly enough, was the real problem in the first place. First, looting from someone else's wreck, who is not in your corp or your gang does flag them. Therefore, they have 'rights' to that wreck and it only makes perfect sense that shooting it gets you Concorded. EDIT: Realized OP meant ganged players wreck. In any case, shooting any wreck other than your own brings the wrath of Concord. If you hadnt turned off that spiffy warning about criminal actions, this wouldnt have happened. Second, the very people who have developed this game have stated that 'hi sec' is NOT SAFE SPACE. Only SAFER. Lastly, creating nice safe cans to mine into for the enjoyment of miners will only serve to make your life harder! Think about it. Now all those macro miners you compete against have a total get out of jail free pass. No one can mess with them. Mineral prices will plummet, and you will be mining for pennies. Thats why I put "safe" in quotes, because I realize its not truely safe. The thing is that the theives in this case dont really pay a price, there really is no risk for them. Even high sec hauler gankers have to face the wraith of concord and suffer a sec penality. Theives have neither. Meaning they dont have to worry about buidling sec status or retribution from concord... see what I am getting at... Eve is built off Risk vs reward... they really only stand to gain. Second, I see the point you are trying to make, but as I stated above you can always gank a macro miner because you have that choice... IF you are willing to pay for the privilage. I have seen entire corps dedicated just to this purpose (and ganking ore thieves as well) Further, it doesnt apply to my case since I dont sell the minerals, nor do I sell what the minerals make... take that for what you will.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Hypatia Iola Edited by: Hypatia Iola on 18/03/2007 22:58:02 let me say now that by and large i am an ore thief. A selective ore thief but one nonetheless. I'd honestly, however, like to see the larger secure containers come into existence anyway because it would make hauling easier (ride up, scoop the can whole, fly off) and mining safer. now before i hear a ton of people say "Eve isn't safe" i agree 100%. so, what I personally think is that attacking non-player objects shouldn't concorde flag you. Give the cans a fair amount of HP. Like BC or even low end BS(i know it's a big jump) level. Why you ask? well it's simple: by giving it substantial HP you give the miner time to actually get a PvP-buddy/alt in system to help you, Plus if he doesn't have a buddy/alt, you give a realistic ransom opportunities to ore thieves. Now i know EVERYONE basically hates me at this point, Miners: WTF you can shoot out loot without getting the boot?!? Thieves(like me): WTF how are we supposed to steal if he has time to get his gun-toting lunatic alt out to wipe me off the face of Eve? the answer is: Miners: yes we can, it's up to you to protect yourselves. I agree that you haven't really got options at this point as things tend to move too fast for you to react effectively. this would slow things down a bit. Thieves: The biggest reason i suggest this is because most of the time when i steal i'm looking for a fight, and profit is just a bonus. this also means you can stick specifically to your real fight ships and nopt ever have to worry about actually selling the loot (via ransom) so to the OP, signed if you'll sign my idea. Well first Id call your attention to the fact that you can only scope secure cans if they arent anchored... and trust me I am going to put a password and anchor my can so you cant get to it. Further there should be no need for protection in high sec. Its not like mission runners need protection to kill npcs... or have to anchor cans etc to fight them.
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: AlleyKat You could mine into a secure can and have your hauler swap stuff into the cargo hold. Hmm, seems like we have another person that cant read on our hands. I specifically mentioned this solution knowing full well some fool would bring it. As I have previously stated this is not an effective solution as the cans are too small to effectively fill this role. They work just fine. January's Film
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.19 00:01:00 - [26] Originally by: AlleyKat Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: AlleyKat You could mine into a secure can and have your hauler swap stuff into the cargo hold. Hmm, seems like we have another person that cant read on our hands. I specifically mentioned this solution knowing full well some fool would bring it. As I have previously stated this is not an effective solution as the cans are too small to effectively fill this role. They work just fine. Actually they dont. I will refer you to this post for further reading. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=492351
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.19 06:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Riley Craven Thats why I put "safe" in quotes, because I realize its not truely safe. The thing is that the theives in this case dont really pay a price, there really is no risk for them. Even high sec hauler gankers have to face the wraith of concord and suffer a sec penality. Theives have neither. Meaning they dont have to worry about buidling sec status or retribution from concord... see what I am getting at... Eve is built off Risk vs reward... they really only stand to gain. This right here shows that you are only looking at this from one perspective, and not really reasoning about it at all. Thieves risk nothing? What if you had a guad? What if you didn't let yourself get complacent in the "fact" that you where in "safe" space? If that where true, that thief would have been space dust by now. So, the thieves risk their ships. You, however, risk perhaps an hour of mining (tops). Talk about risk vs reward... /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Riley Craven Further there should be no need for protection in high sec. Its not like mission runners need protection to kill npcs... or have to anchor cans etc to fight them. Sorry for the double post, but once again you fail to understand this game. There is no need for protection in high sec. It's a choice. Protection will mitigate the risk of being stolen from. Without protection you're SOL. You see how this works? You have the option to have protection, even in high sec, as it gives you certain benefits. You also have the option to not have any protection. This might present you with certain disadvantages. I hope you manage to get your head around this sooner rather than later. The fact is, the game isn't broken in this case. Your reasoning is. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Liliane Woodhead	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:22:00 - [29] Bigger secure can's ? Signed ! Since the Hulk and cargo rigs for haulers are in the game the deployables are not up to date. So i anchor hundreds of giant secure ... how silly, how laggy. give us a bigger can.
Souvera Corvus Gallente Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.03.19 07:38:00 - [30] Bigger cans would make sense. It's always struck me as odd that a frig could belch out a non-secure can that can hold 27500m3 and yet you can't buy a secure one above 3500m3. "If man does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favourable"

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