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Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.19 18:36:00 - [1] Everyone can see the need for a role specific ship in this class. My ship is bassed off the idea of a gallente hauler cruiser, not sure of the name Fitting would be 5 Hi's 3-4 Mids 3-4 lows It would have it least 1500m3 cargo space It would have a bonus to salvage changes and some type of resistance bonus. So the arguement for this would be first, you need a good number of highs for tractor beems and salvagers. Since it has no weapons it would need to fit some kind of tank (mids) and for lows added salvage ability or more defence mods. The basis for this slot layout is based off defenseless ships like t1 haulers that have gobs of slots. Because this version is a cruiser and has more has it would have less mids and lows. The cargo room I think is needed becuase a true salvage ship should be some kind of looter as well. It doesnt make since to collect the salvage and leave the loot if you are a garbage collector in the first place. Cpu would be moderate, much like a caldari cruiser, and grid would be on the lower end. would need much grid if you arent fitting weapons, but would need more cpu based off the protection mods and salvage mods fitted.
Otto Maharg	Posted - 2007.03.19 19:54:00 - [2] I call mine "Exequeror with salvage tackles, tractor beams and salvagers" and its cargo increases incrementally with cruiser level...
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.19 20:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Otto Maharg I call mine "Exequeror with salvage tackles, tractor beams and salvagers" and its cargo increases incrementally with cruiser level... yeah but it still isnt enough to get the job done properly, plus it doesnt get bonuses to salvage.
Otto Maharg	Posted - 2007.03.21 05:29:00 - [4] With salvage tackles? They give big bonuses to recovering salvage. And since salvage only takes up .01 m3/unit, you dont really need a huge cargo hold, especially with being able to salvage unlooted wrecks since the latest patch. and 4 high slots are more than enough room to carry two salvagers and two tractors, if you so desire, plus it has enough cargo space for 4 hammerheads to kill whatever you plan to salvage.
Mr Xofar The Devil's Mafia	Posted - 2007.03.21 06:47:00 - [5] Now that we don't have to loot the wrecks to salvage maybe a ship bonus to boost the range of our Salvager's would be a good idea? Maybe +20% per level? Miner Timer
Titus Blackthorn Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:50:00 - [6] isn't this a "destroyer"? basically? slap in some salvage rigs and presto!!! sorry not flame ... a ship with salvage bonus built in would be pretty o.k. imho
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.21 15:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Otto Maharg With salvage tackles? They give big bonuses to recovering salvage. And since salvage only takes up .01 m3/unit, you dont really need a huge cargo hold, especially with being able to salvage unlooted wrecks since the latest patch. and 4 high slots are more than enough room to carry two salvagers and two tractors, if you so desire, plus it has enough cargo space for 4 hammerheads to kill whatever you plan to salvage. My point is that other ship classes have bouses to make them fit a role, force recons, interdictors, etc. Why should the salvage profession be any different. As for as cargo room this is a MUST for a true salvage profession. What kind of stupid person salvages just the wreck and then leaves anywhere from 50k-10mil isk worth of mods in a cargo can????? I mean seriously people get a grip.
Daerkannon Shimmerscale Gallente Paxton Industries	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:02:00 - [8] I agree that it would be nice if we could get one ship at least that was specialize for salvaging, but I don't think that a bonus to salvaging is actually the way to go. Salvaging itself goes pretty fast. What you really need is a faster/better way to get to all of those wrecks scattered around. What I'd like to see is something like the Exequror with 5-6 highs and a ship bonus of 20% to tractor beam range per level. Either that or they could just seed medium and large tractor beams already. --- Honest officer, the dwarf was on fire when I got here! Paxton Industries is recruiting.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.21 18:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale I agree that it would be nice if we could get one ship at least that was specialize for salvaging, but I don't think that a bonus to salvaging is actually the way to go. Salvaging itself goes pretty fast. What you really need is a faster/better way to get to all of those wrecks scattered around. What I'd like to see is something like the Exequror with 5-6 highs and a ship bonus of 20% to tractor beam range per level. Either that or they could just seed medium and large tractor beams already. Why not both, I mean the resist bonus that I put in was just because I couldnt think of anything else. I agree with you a 100% that we need better range on tractors... On a side note what on earth happened to the medium and large versions of the tractor?!!?
Silthis Marna Monkey Pickles	Posted - 2007.03.21 23:57:00 - [10] /signed Although I would propose a variant based on an industrial or transport chassis of some form. Think a Mammoth/Badger Mk II/Itty V/Bestower (6000 m^3) with 8 highs (one turret). Introduce the medium or large tractors, and add a ship specific bonus of some form, like 99% cpu reduction on large tractor grid/cpu requirements. Presumably the large tractors could be introduced with a very high cpu or grid requirement. Require racial industrial v maybe. That leaves it truly in reach of a dedicated mission runner, yet outside of the common 2 week old character. If mission runners are to become a source of mods to sell, rather than raw ISK, we need something to make it time effective.
Rungi Minmatar United Forces Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.28 22:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale I agree that it would be nice if we could get one ship at least that was specialize for salvaging, but I don't think that a bonus to salvaging is actually the way to go. Salvaging itself goes pretty fast. What you really need is a faster/better way to get to all of those wrecks scattered around. What I'd like to see is something like the Exequror with 5-6 highs and a ship bonus of 20% to tractor beam range per level. Either that or they could just seed medium and large tractor beams already. Why not both, I mean the resist bonus that I put in was just because I couldnt think of anything else. I agree with you a 100% that we need better range on tractors... On a side note what on earth happened to the medium and large versions of the tractor?!!? /signed Though, the Cyclone works very well in this role. Add a few expanders in the lows, a MWD or AB II and 3 Salvager 3 Tractors. The standard 10mn AB will give you just enough speed and allow you to pull cargo and salvage without letting the can get too far behind. I'm all for a bonus to Tractor Beam range though. Nice idea. -------------------------------------------- Rules of engagement: 1) You win. 2) No you can't have a cookie. Nothing beats a good dose of ugly, well perhaps stupid.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2007.03.28 23:32:00 - [12] CCP was supposed to be coming out with ships that had bonuses for the mini proffessions. like salvaging or exploration... whare they are... only CCP knows.
Tonto Auri Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.03.29 00:58:00 - [13] Salvaging currently is not a mini-profession. Only very lazy man not have dedicated salvage ship at this time. -- .
Random Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.29 11:23:00 - [14] Armageddon 4 x tractor , 4 x salvagers 2 x cap recharger , 1 100Mn Mwd 7 x Cargo Spander , 1 inertia stab ( or nanofiber ) 3 x salvage rigs makes a v nice loot ship
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2007.03.29 17:21:00 - [15] lol yeah and an expensive one too. I use a simple destroyer with 6 tractors, 2 salvagers, an expander and armor repair. I keep one attack dorne to fend off evil dooers
Karmen Fyremane	Posted - 2007.03.30 17:45:00 - [16] Yes, a dedicated salvage ship would be wonderful. And since CCP likes to make new skills to keep everyone training, a new ship line with new associated skills would seem to be right up their alley. I imagine this is a low priority for them though and the soonest we could expect a ship like this would be with the next large patch after revelations, so we have to make due with what's available to us for now. I salvage empire missions so I can afford to invest a little more into my salvage ship without having to worry about other players wtfpwn'ing me while I'm working. My salvage ship setup is: Catalyst (Gallente Destroyer) HIGH 6x sm tractor 2x salvager I MED 1MN MWD II (used in single pulses to get from salvage cluster to salvage cluster) LOW 3x Local Hull Conversions Expanded cargo (really like to switch these out for cargo hold II's, but they seem hard to find) RIGS Salvage Tackle I Capacitor Control Circuit I Semiconductor Memory Cell I This ship has about 826 m^3 volume for loot and salvage parts. That is enhanced by using 2 medium secure containers (325 m^3 volume for 390 m^3 capacity). It also give about 7.5 cap/sec recharge rate which means not having to rest up when salvaging missions with large ship counts. I previously used an afterburner instead of a MWD, but it was a bit slow for some of the level 4 missions which tend to have wrecks spread out over around 100km of space. I know this ship is a pricey setup, but cutting my salvage time is a real plus for me and like I said, there is only a very slim chance of losing it in empire. I would not recommend such a pricey setup for low-sec, 0.0 unless you use it a heavily defended area.
Hasiti	Posted - 2007.04.09 04:25:00 - [17] Good idea I would say a kind of destroyer with maybe 8 high slots, but something like 0 med slot and 1 or 2 low slots with a good cargo hold. There could also be salvaging range bonus, salvage speed bonus or chance of salvage bonus on the ship. There could also be more skills for salvaging like the bonus I just said for the ship.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.09 23:22:00 - [18] I am actually running a slavage business now and have made 100 + mil in less than two weeks. I use a Catalyst with 4x salvager, 4x tractor, 1MN AB II, 1 Cap Recharger II, and 3x Local Hull Conversion Mods. This gives me a fairly large cargo bay and I can usually clean out a single room in a level 4 mission before i have to go back to the station to unload. The only problems I have run into is with the gang issue (have my own thread going - Please check it out http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=501270 ). Thanks yall.
Wander Lost	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:54:00 - [19] I like the 5/3/3 setup - But with 3 turret hardpoints. Realistically this thing has to defend itself somewhat, probably cruiser-class. this gives options to have the remaining 2 slots for salvage/tractors. Remember that you can salvage quicker that you can pull a distant wreck to you if it pull fruit from the first cycle. With the mods this thing would have you'd prolly have more tractors then salvagers to balance out the workload. This setup would make the ship a great attache for cleanup and extra fire (though generally destroyer type firepower).
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.16 23:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Wander Lost I like the 5/3/3 setup - But with 3 turret hardpoints. Realistically this thing has to defend itself somewhat, probably cruiser-class. this gives options to have the remaining 2 slots for salvage/tractors. Remember that you can salvage quicker that you can pull a distant wreck to you if it pull fruit from the first cycle. With the mods this thing would have you'd prolly have more tractors then salvagers to balance out the workload. This setup would make the ship a great attache for cleanup and extra fire (though generally destroyer type firepower). I see what you are getting at, but I cant really agree. The thing is that a salvage ships is supposed to be specialized in salvaging. If you need protection then you should be witha group of ships. For example I have read numerous times of CCP talking about a science vessel, but would it make since for such a vessel to have the armaments you propose? Not really. In any case I dont think a single person in here would fit a ship like that. The idea is to reduce the time it takes to salvage and to do so currently you needed to fit at least a min of 2 tractors and 2 salvagers. Otherwise if you go with 1 tractor and 1 salvager there is no reason not to use just a plain old hauler. The idea is not to use salvagers seperately but to use them on the same wreck to make them salvage faster. Hence why 2 is almost a min. these days.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.22 22:36:00 - [21] Actually, with 4 salvagers and 4 tractors, i can bring in wrecks and with a lvl 5 salvaging skill and 3 salvager tackles, i can USUALLY get salvage on a single cycle of the salvager. The 4/4 setup i'm using works very well, especially when i'm working for someone else...if you're salvaging someone else's wrecks without their permission (which does NOT cause an agro flag) then it's on you if you get caught. I have NEVER in a year of playing had a swarm respawn during a mission if it wasn't built that way. If you're salvaging wrecks in belts, then you would obviously need protection from rats, but if you're fast enough and have a couple of drones, it's really a non-issue. But to the point of this thread---> If you are a salvager/looter by PROFESSION, then a ship made for that profession is what we need.
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.23 08:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 23/04/2007 08:55:06 The big advantage to using a destroyer to salvage - apart from the 8 high slots - is that it's the only class of ship which can fit an oversized AB and get a good speed boost out of it while maintaining a decent salvage set up in the highs. This allows it to effectively have an MWD in deadspace. If a salvage ship is made it should have a bonus to AB power and CPU requirement and/or cap recharge and/or tractor beam speed, not range, the speed at which things are pulled in, as if you are flying at a good velocity, getting within 20km of wrecks is quickly done, but it is a pain to have to wait for that last one to be pulled in before heading to the next wreck cluster... Alternatively, the salvage role could allow it to warp in and out of deadspace and use MWDs there normally, but prevent it from fitting weapons of any kind. This would solve the issue of getting a salvager into a pocket requiring an expensive key and would make the salvaging proffession more palatable, at least for people like me who get frustrated by the warp restrictions in deadspace...
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.23 19:26:00 - [23] Edited by: Riley Craven on 23/04/2007 19:22:40 Originally by: Ishma Nelass Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 23/04/2007 08:55:06 The big advantage to using a destroyer to salvage - apart from the 8 high slots - is that it's the only class of ship which can fit an oversized AB and get a good speed boost out of it while maintaining a decent salvage set up in the highs. This allows it to effectively have an MWD in deadspace. If a salvage ship is made it should have a bonus to AB power and CPU requirement and/or cap recharge and/or tractor beam speed, not range, the speed at which things are pulled in, as if you are flying at a good velocity, getting within 20km of wrecks is quickly done, but it is a pain to have to wait for that last one to be pulled in before heading to the next wreck cluster... Alternatively, the salvage role could allow it to warp in and out of deadspace and use MWDs there normally, but prevent it from fitting weapons of any kind. This would solve the issue of getting a salvager into a pocket requiring an expensive key and would make the salvaging proffession more palatable, at least for people like me who get frustrated by the warp restrictions in deadspace... I dont particularly like your bonus Idea. The simple solution to your problem is to "tow" wrecks that you are currently salvaging/hauling in while you move to the next cluster to save yourself some time :)
Suoh Amshar	Posted - 2007.04.24 00:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Ishma Nelass Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 23/04/2007 08:55:06 The big advantage to using a destroyer to salvage - apart from the 8 high slots - is that it's the only class of ship which can fit an oversized AB and get a good speed boost out of it while maintaining a decent salvage set up in the highs. This allows it to effectively have an MWD in deadspace. If a salvage ship is made it should have a bonus to AB power and CPU requirement and/or cap recharge and/or tractor beam speed, not range, the speed at which things are pulled in, as if you are flying at a good velocity, getting within 20km of wrecks is quickly done, but it is a pain to have to wait for that last one to be pulled in before heading to the next wreck cluster... Alternatively, the salvage role could allow it to warp in and out of deadspace and use MWDs there normally, but prevent it from fitting weapons of any kind. This would solve the issue of getting a salvager into a pocket requiring an expensive key and would make the salvaging proffession more palatable, at least for people like me who get frustrated by the warp restrictions in deadspace... I think that this is a good idea for the most part. Also, on the topic of a specialized salvage ship, i think it should be a T2 version of the dest. This is for two reasons. A) the destroyer is the most easily accesible salvage ship for average players and B) the only current T2 dest is an interdictor, which to my knowledge are only useful for specialized purposes (interdicting). To combine alot of ideas for this ship, lets assume, as with most T2 ships, it has 4 bonuses, 2 from the base ship and 2 from the T2 version (ex. assault ships have 2 bonuses from frigates and 2 from the AS itself). For this i think that the basic bonuses should be a reduction in PG/CPU for med/large tractor beams and range increase for salvage modules (20% per lvl for 100% total? still only 10km). The T2 bonuses should be to tractor speed and salvage chance. It should have a cargo hold thats increased significantly but still realistically small. Ive found that with the 450 on my cormorant i usually have no problems...so possible about 1000M^3, still modest. as for slots it should have 8 high, with only 1 or 2 for both med and low, that way it can fit as many tractors and salvagers as necessary but can also hold an AB and some lower stuff. as a dedicated slavager, i see no reason for any hardpoints but a small drone bay could be useful...something in the range of 15-25 M^3 depending on race. anyway i hope my ideas are useful. please CCP make our salvage dreams come true!!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.24 01:57:00 - [25] Edited by: Riley Craven on 24/04/2007 01:54:33 Originally by: Suoh Amshar Originally by: Ishma Nelass Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 23/04/2007 08:55:06 The big advantage to using a destroyer to salvage - apart from the 8 high slots - is that it's the only class of ship which can fit an oversized AB and get a good speed boost out of it while maintaining a decent salvage set up in the highs. This allows it to effectively have an MWD in deadspace. If a salvage ship is made it should have a bonus to AB power and CPU requirement and/or cap recharge and/or tractor beam speed, not range, the speed at which things are pulled in, as if you are flying at a good velocity, getting within 20km of wrecks is quickly done, but it is a pain to have to wait for that last one to be pulled in before heading to the next wreck cluster... Alternatively, the salvage role could allow it to warp in and out of deadspace and use MWDs there normally, but prevent it from fitting weapons of any kind. This would solve the issue of getting a salvager into a pocket requiring an expensive key and would make the salvaging proffession more palatable, at least for people like me who get frustrated by the warp restrictions in deadspace... I think that this is a good idea for the most part. Also, on the topic of a specialized salvage ship, i think it should be a T2 version of the dest. This is for two reasons. A) the destroyer is the most easily accesible salvage ship for average players and B) the only current T2 dest is an interdictor, which to my knowledge are only useful for specialized purposes (interdicting). To combine alot of ideas for this ship, lets assume, as with most T2 ships, it has 4 bonuses, 2 from the base ship and 2 from the T2 version (ex. assault ships have 2 bonuses from frigates and 2 from the AS itself). For this i think that the basic bonuses should be a reduction in PG/CPU for med/large tractor beams and range increase for salvage modules (20% per lvl for 100% total? still only 10km). The T2 bonuses should be to tractor speed and salvage chance. It should have a cargo hold thats increased significantly but still realistically small. Ive found that with the 450 on my cormorant i usually have no problems...so possible about 1000M^3, still modest. as for slots it should have 8 high, with only 1 or 2 for both med and low, that way it can fit as many tractors and salvagers as necessary but can also hold an AB and some lower stuff. as a dedicated slavager, i see no reason for any hardpoints but a small drone bay could be useful...something in the range of 15-25 M^3 depending on race. anyway i hope my ideas are useful. please CCP make our salvage dreams come true!! Put simply, no. First, professions should not be restricted to t2 ships. Even if the idea is to specialize. Further the destroyer is the worst platform for this ship. 1. Its paper thin 2. It doesnt have the cargo space needed to be a true salvage ship 3. It has way too many highs and would be unbalanced 4. The ship needs to be based off a new hull not in Eve currently 5. It can have no combat ability much like current miner class ships (aka barges)
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.24 08:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 24/04/2007 08:52:03 Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 24/04/2007 08:51:37 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 23/04/2007 19:22:40 I dont particularly like your bonus Idea. The simple solution to your problem is to "tow" wrecks that you are currently salvaging/hauling in while you move to the next cluster to save yourself some time :) That's silly. I do so already to the extent that it is meaningfull, but really, considering the tiny amount of time it actually take to salvage each wreck you lose more time doing this than you gain. It is simply faster to salvage everything and then mover on. And any salvage ship that doesn't have at least 7 hi slots would simply not be as good a salvage ship as the destroyer is already. Apart from some relevant salvaging/tractor bonuses and maybe a little combat nerf, I do not see how any ship could improve upon the destroyer as a salvager. And as to your points above I could not disagree more. No salvage ship needs to have armour, as unless they can have a tank matching at least the average BC the tank would be useless anyway. And the cargo hold is sufficient for almost all lvl 4 missions already in one haul, at least with an expander or two; alsao I do not see how you can call the salvage ship 'unbalanced' with eight high slots, as there is nothing for it to balance with... unless you don't want it to compete with existing ships for salvage ability?
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.24 14:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Ishma Nelass Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 24/04/2007 08:52:03 Edited by: Ishma Nelass on 24/04/2007 08:51:37 Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 23/04/2007 19:22:40 I dont particularly like your bonus Idea. The simple solution to your problem is to "tow" wrecks that you are currently salvaging/hauling in while you move to the next cluster to save yourself some time :) That's silly. I do so already to the extent that it is meaningfull, but really, considering the tiny amount of time it actually take to salvage each wreck you lose more time doing this than you gain. It is simply faster to salvage everything and then mover on. And any salvage ship that doesn't have at least 7 hi slots would simply not be as good a salvage ship as the destroyer is already. Apart from some relevant salvaging/tractor bonuses and maybe a little combat nerf, I do not see how any ship could improve upon the destroyer as a salvager. And as to your points above I could not disagree more. No salvage ship needs to have armour, as unless they can have a tank matching at least the average BC the tank would be useless anyway. And the cargo hold is sufficient for almost all lvl 4 missions already in one haul, at least with an expander or two; alsao I do not see how you can call the salvage ship 'unbalanced' with eight high slots, as there is nothing for it to balance with... unless you don't want it to compete with existing ships for salvage ability? I cant really see how you loose time if you are salvaging an item while you are on the move. Maybe explain it to me? AS to your other points. high slots, first there needs to be some kind of balance. Think of it in terms of a barge, it gets to use special mining lasers and gets a mining bonus. If your talking about a coveter then its better than any BS mining even usinc DCM II. A ship that gets a bonus to salvage per laser would need to have less salvagers to keep it in line with other professons. Further on your tank points, I agree that it needs to have some tank, but nothing more than what a badger or itty 5 can pull off. You shouldnt be somewhere perma tanking rats while you salvage. You cant have your cake and eat it too. The tank needs to be just good enough to escape, nothing more, nothing less. Your point about cargo is just plain wrong. You see it only from your perspective instead of the whole picture. The ship would be almost useless in 0.0. One BS kill would practically fill the entire hold of that ship in one go. You shouldnt need to be doing constant runs to a base in the middle of 0.0 after you kill a large ship which there are alot of. Thats why I suggest a comprimse of 1500m3. Its just large enough to make it usable in 0.0, but not large enough to call it a hauler. Dont collect the loot you say? NOOO. The point of garbage collector is to collect all garbage! Why should he have to scoff at the big lucrative garbage??!? That just makes no sense
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:39:00 - [28] Well, I'm going to be honest with you and say that I've never salvaged in 0.0. However, I can't imagine that there is as much loot in a single BS as you say. 500m3? Its a lot. And when you give the salvaging ship 1500m3 you are putting it equal to /better than) some industrial at hauling... yet if it is to be viable as a salvager it must also have a decent speed and maneuverability. Surely you see the problem with this. As to the tank, you misunderstood me, or perhaps I formulated myself poorly; I meant that there is no point in giving the salvage ship any decent tank, if it gets aggro it will die too quickly for it to get away anyway, unless you give it a tank which is entirely out of proportion to its ability. As for your comments on high slots... have you ever salvaged before? It is not the actual salvaging that takes time, most things go in one cycle anyway. It is the dragging that takes time, and that is what I meant. If I tow a wreck along to the next cluster I must travel at 1/3 speed, else the wreck will never catch up, it will fall behind and go out of range for my tractor beam. And fewer high slots means fewer tracto beams too. You simply cant have 4 tractor beams on a ship with 5 highs, so it would go much faster to salvage with a destroyer than the salvaging ship you are proposing. Oh, and mining barges don't just get a bonus to mining, they also get better mining equipment than the BS miners.
Arimus Darkhart Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:53:00 - [29] Idea: Why not introduce a salvage module which can only be fitted on dedicated salvagers (rather like strip miners and the barges)... give it a quick cycle time and a high chance of success. On the salvage tug give them four high slots - let you fit two (or more) salvage arrays and a couple of tb's. Plenty of low slots for cargo expanders or armour tank and some mid slots for shield tanks. Skill wise make it about the same a cruiser to get to. Introduce as well a T2 version with more high slots and better yield bonuses, make it skill wise about the same as an exhumer I. The bonus for both ships should be based on a sensor skill combined with the salvager skill bonus... Add a new mid-slot module which can scan wrecks and tell you what is in them - similar to the mining scanners... -- Users are like a virus - each causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally dies.
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.24 17:59:00 - [30] That's an interesting idea, as the concept is diametrically opposite to mining where long cycle times are preferable, we could give the arrays half the cycle time, with 2/3 the chance of a normal salvager to salvage... But without more tractor beam slots it will still be slower than a destroyer. Maybe if it had more hi slots, but the salvaging arrays require turret slots...
Suoh Amshar	Posted - 2007.04.24 18:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Riley Craven Put simply, no. First, professions should not be restricted to t2 ships. Even if the idea is to specialize. Further the destroyer is the worst platform for this ship. 1. Its paper thin 2. It doesnt have the cargo space needed to be a true salvage ship 3. It has way too many highs and would be unbalanced 4. The ship needs to be based off a new hull not in Eve currently 5. It can have no combat ability much like current miner class ships (aka barges) i must further disagree with you. not only is a destroyer not the worst ship for the job, it is quite possibly the best. It has everything that would be required for a salvage ship. the reasons why this is are as follows (in order) 1. although it has essentially no tanking ability, it would be a designated salvage ship and thus needs no tanking ability because, by the definition of "designated" it would be doing nothing but salvaging. any tank necessary would be supplied by other players that are allowing the salvage. in another case, if you salvaged your own mission, all of the rats would already be dead. 2. I use a cormorant to salvage. i have personally never exceeded its 450m^3 cargo space (this is the basic number, no enhancers) on any mission unless i had pulled in alot of items such as metal scraps, which as anyone knows, are utterly worthless. but even if you were to make a very long and extended salvage run, with my earlier idea the ship would already have a much larger hold, rendering this argument moot. 3.Too many highs? i mean no offense but you must not salvage very often. High slots are the most important for a salvager as they hold the salvage units and tractor beams. In all honesty, a designated salvage ship needs no other slots to work well, however with the addition of medium and low slots you are able to fit an afterburner and cargo enhancers. however, you can only fit one AB, and with the cargo bonus already in place, enhancers would be wasteful. At this point the only real use for the M/L slots would be for cap rechargers. 4.I see no reason for a new hull. It would make things more interesting but if we were to simply upgrade an existing hull it would require much less difficulty in programming and be therefore more likely to be implemented. 5.This point i agree with. a designated salvage ship would need no weapons. To cause this one does not need to restrict high slots, simply limit or remove any turret or launcher hardpoints. And finally, in response to your idea that a profession should not be limited to T2 ships. I agree fully. That does not mean, however, that one should not be available. I will give an example for this in the mining industry. Anyone can start mining right after making a new account. many (all?) characters begin with basic mining skills and even are provided with a civilian mining laser. However, if one wishes to specialize in this profession, he or she is able to invest many skill points in various skills in order to use mining barges and eventually exhumers. why not, then, have a similar system in place for the salvaging profession. And salvaging would by no means me limited to a T2 ship. The destroyer is a very effective T1 salvager that requires few new skills to use. I hope to hear more on this subject. the more is written, proposed, and argued over, the more the eventual idea will condense into something that may some day be implemented to at least my personal, if not the general, satisfaction.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:03:00 - [32] Edited by: Riley Craven on 24/04/2007 19:08:39 Originally by: Ishma Nelass Well, I'm going to be honest with you and say that I've never salvaged in 0.0. However, I can't imagine that there is as much loot in a single BS as you say. 500m3? Its a lot. And when you give the salvaging ship 1500m3 you are putting it equal to /better than) some industrial at hauling... yet if it is to be viable as a salvager it must also have a decent speed and maneuverability. Surely you see the problem with this. As to the tank, you misunderstood me, or perhaps I formulated myself poorly; I meant that there is no point in giving the salvage ship any decent tank, if it gets aggro it will die too quickly for it to get away anyway, unless you give it a tank which is entirely out of proportion to its ability. As for your comments on high slots... have you ever salvaged before? It is not the actual salvaging that takes time, most things go in one cycle anyway. It is the dragging that takes time, and that is what I meant. If I tow a wreck along to the next cluster I must travel at 1/3 speed, else the wreck will never catch up, it will fall behind and go out of range for my tractor beam. And fewer high slots means fewer tracto beams too. You simply cant have 4 tractor beams on a ship with 5 highs, so it would go much faster to salvage with a destroyer than the salvaging ship you are proposing. Oh, and mining barges don't just get a bonus to mining, they also get better mining equipment than the BS miners. First, yes the BS do drop that or more sometimes in loot, it does happen and it is frequent enough to warrant such a change. I dont know of any hauler in the game that starts off with hauling ability that low. Even the sigil is at almost 3k m3 and the prorator isnt much lower than that. Even so the sigil is very agil for a hauler and I dont see how having 1500m3 would make it drastically slower. That is unless of course you are fitting all the lows with expanders. To your point about salvaging, yes I have. In fact I was one of the people that had survy at lvl 5 when it first came out. I have been doing it since day one. You are not correct that it takes longer to haul it than it does to salvage. Though more on a semantics level than anything. If you are talking about frigate sized wrecks (even at lvl 4 salvage most salvages fail at least 3-6 times on these wrecks if not more) Further one shot salvage deals are rare even with good skills. For that to happen you have to use the salvage rig. In that case the fragality of the ship does not justify the extreme cost of the rigs in 0.0 salvage, which is why the bonus needs to be skill based. Further to your comment about tanking, I would suggest you just dont know how to tank. The itty 5 can fit a moderate sheild tank and has plenty of time to get away from even the large 0.0 rats. Its been done. You can still drag wrecks effectively at 400 m/s which is more than enough speed to move around. If you start going more than 600m/s you start bouncing off things and that just sucks. Further if the ship was made for salvaging you really shouldnt need all thoose high slots. Your basically doing the same thing that a mining bs does. My arguement is that if the ship was built properly that wouldnt be necessary. I also noted in my above arguement that miners get special lasers and was suggesting that salvagers need to get some as well.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Suoh Amshar Originally by: Riley Craven Put simply, no. First, professions should not be restricted to t2 ships. Even if the idea is to specialize. Further the destroyer is the worst platform for this ship. 1. Its paper thin 2. It doesnt have the cargo space needed to be a true salvage ship 3. It has way too many highs and would be unbalanced 4. The ship needs to be based off a new hull not in Eve currently 5. It can have no combat ability much like current miner class ships (aka barges) Lots of crazy stuff I hope to hear more on this subject. the more is written, proposed, and argued over, the more the eventual idea will condense into something that may some day be implemented to at least my personal, if not the general, satisfaction. Again my point to the other poster about this. The destroyer is great for salvaging in only ONE role: Empire. Other than that it sucks. It does not have the cargo hold to clear even ONE spawn in 0.0 that involves battleships. There is no way a destroyer hull would have the ability to hold 1500m'3 which is why it CANT be a destroyer. Further the highslot arguement is foolish. In most cases the idea is to use more than one salvager per target to get the job done faster. With the bonus this wouldnt need to be done because in most cases it would be a one shot deal making more than a couple salvagers POINTLESS. The argument for the current slot layout is that it needs SOME tank. No one is going to use a ship that gets blown up in 0.0 if the npcs look at wrong. I am not saying it should be able to perma tank BS spawns, just that it must have enough time to get away.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:32:00 - [34] I have only two comments: 1) If you have the skills and the equipment (salvage rigs) you can get ANY salvage (atleast in empire lvl 4) in 3 or less cycles. 2) My Mining Character gets specialized ships and equipment, why can't my Salvager? It's my PROFESSION, it's what I do...I even have contract options set up for my clients and make GOOD money doing it. (Check my BIO, it's all there) Other than that, carry on the debate...i'll continue pulling massive profits with my 4/4 destroyer until something better comes along. Lots of great ideas though!!!! READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Suoh Amshar	Posted - 2007.04.24 19:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Riley Craven Again my point to the other poster about this. The destroyer is great for salvaging in only ONE role: Empire. Other than that it sucks. It does not have the cargo hold to clear even ONE spawn in 0.0 that involves battleships. There is no way a destroyer hull would have the ability to hold 1500m'3 which is why it CANT be a destroyer. Further the highslot arguement is foolish. In most cases the idea is to use more than one salvager per target to get the job done faster. With the bonus this wouldnt need to be done because in most cases it would be a one shot deal making more than a couple salvagers POINTLESS. The argument for the current slot layout is that it needs SOME tank. No one is going to use a ship that gets blown up in 0.0 if the npcs look at wrong. I am not saying it should be able to perma tank BS spawns, just that it must have enough time to get away. I have personally never salvaged in 0.0 whether or not it requires that much space as you claim in that case doesnt really matter. I say this because of a combination of many ideas that i have seen or had. Firstly is the thought that much of the stuff you get is fairly useless and doesnt sell high. Secondly, the salvage itself takes up almost no space and as it would be unarmed there would be no ammo to hold. Finally, i cant imagine that a player with only the experience to use a destroyer would go anywhere near 0.0 space. Thats why i propose that the new salvage ship be a T2. anyone that is salvaging in 0.0 space should have enough skills to use a T2 version. and for the idea that a destroyer hull couldn't hold 1500m^3, i say why not? my cormorant has a volume of 52000 and a capacity of 450. realistically thinking, how much of that extra volume is taken up by things such as weapons systems? the destroyer is a fighter after all. if it were made into a commercial craft why couldnt a large amount of that be removed? isnt that, after all, what a cargo expander does? if it takes off speed in exchange for space isnt it removing some of the engine capacity? all of that is why i think that the hold of the new ship could start with a base of 1000m^3. then with one or 2 expanders you could reach the 1500 mark that you seem to need. Next. Why are more high slots foolish? you seem to be under the assumption that more high slots would inevitably be used for more salvagers. however, this need not be the case. with 8 high slots one would be able to fit 4 slavagers and 4 tractors. this way one could pull 4 wrecks at once and use one salvager each. as you said, each salvage would be a one shot deal. In this case would it not be more efficient to salvage as many different wrecks as possible? Finally. I again return to the idea that this ship is a designated salvager. because it inherantly would have no offensive capabilities, the only way that a wreck would even be there is for the salvager's gang member(s) to blow it up. with simple common sense, the slavager would not enter the deadspace until most or all of the rats have been popped. Even in the case that one new rat respawns during the process there would not be a problem. you forget that i proposed this ship as a T2 format. Im not saying that you should send a destroyer to 0.0. However would not an interdictor survive there, especially with the help of other gang members?. the T2 destroyer idea would, following the usual T2 system, have at least 2x the shield, armor, and structure hitpoints and much more damage resistances. It would then be able to survive a short attack from a NPC ship until either the other players popped the ship or it warped out
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.24 23:05:00 - [36] Edited by: Riley Craven on 24/04/2007 23:02:53 Originally by: Suoh Amshar Foolishness First you are thinking too one dimensionally. A salvager is USELESS if it can hold salvage and LOOT. Does it make since for you to leave half your freakin income in a stupid can?!?!?! If it does then give me some of what your smoking. You yourself have admitted to never have been to 0.0 so unless you know the value of loot there STFU. Second, who the heck said that only players that have low skills will fly destroyers to loot wrecks?!?! NO ONE. Just because thats how YOU use it doesnt mean it should be LIMITED to that use just because your scope of play in Eve is limited to 20% of the game. Third, its unrealistic that a destroyer could carry that much because the weapons system is just ONE part of the many systems that make up a ship such as engines, cap, computer, shields, armor, hull, THE LIST GOES ON.... Fourth, I SPECICALLY STATED that the layout of the 5 high would be 2 tractors 2 salvagers. My arguemnt for not having more highs is that the BONUSES of the ship should cover the problem of LESS high slots. meaning the ship makes up for its lack, its why its called a SPECIALITY ship. The t2 version of your idea is also bad for several reason. 1. The cost of making t2 ships is prohibitive. 2. It makes no sense to have a t2 version when there isnt even a t1 version for noobs to use. 3. It sets the skill reqs too high for general use. 4. Having a t2 ship IS NOT NEEDED with the slot layout I suggested as it has more then enough ability to get out in time. Further on this you would have the ability to tank ALOT of spawns with the resists and extra hp you propose. Most people forget its not about how much HP your ship has but how well it has the ability to take damage and heal it quickly (i.e. resist and repair ability) The extra HP is only there to give you a buffer if you screw up.
Suoh Amshar	Posted - 2007.04.25 15:57:00 - [37] Mr. Craven. i was attempting to keep my arguments as clean and unoffensive as possible but evidently that doesnt work on one with as little intelligence as yourself. i retract my statement that you dont salvage much and replace it with the fact that you are mentally challenged, a fact that your yourself seem to be proving with every further post. Now for my argument. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the "can" in the first line should be a "cant" because otherwise that entire paragraph makes utterly no sense whatsoever. Assuming that it is, i will repeat that the possible cargo hold size that i proposed it my last post was able to hold the amount that you yourself specified. I should hope that, since it seems to be the basis of your argument, the 1500m^3 is enough to hold whatever it seems you find from ships in 0.0. Next, nobody said that only players with low skills use destroyers. In fact, one of the arguments that i have been trying to make through the last few posts was that a destroyer is ideal for the salvaging profession for any skill level. However, the point i was making in the last post is that destroyers are usable by players with low skills. Again using the mining analogy, anyone who wants to can fly a frig to mine omber. In fact for new players with low skills that may be the only thing they can use. The new salvage ship that is proposed in this thread would fill the spot of a higher class salvage ship that would work more efficiently than something that is easily available. This would be similar to the barges and exhumers in the mining profession. Third. Just because you think that it is realistic doesnt mean that a great number of other people hold the same opinion. Why couldnt a destroyer have 1000 or 1500 hold space? I doubt that even CCP has created a full blueprint of the destroyers that shows the size that each of those systems takes up within the ship. Unless you have one of these documents, how would you know that removing the weapons system would not free up the required space. and even if there wasnt enough room freed by only removing those, consider the path of technological progress. As technology increases, individual units become smaller and more powerful. just look at the computer from which you are spouting the mindless babble that seems to be all that you are able to comprehend. Why then would it be unreasonable that a Tech 2 (notice, higher tech level) ship have smaller systems and therefore more room to dedicate to other purposes, such as a cargo hold. Even if you were unable to contemplate the realistic side of this argument, consider this. EVE is a game, and the people programming it can make the stats whatever they want. Fourth. I understand that your opinion is that 2 tractors and 2 salvagers. This does not, however, mean that it is EVERYONES opinion. I understand your argument. However, i think that it would be more efficient to use 4 tractors and 4 salvagers, still one salvager per tractor. This way one could pull 4 wrecks and salvage each of them instead of 2 wrecks. by simple multiplication, 4 wrecks is 2x as much as 2 wrecks. or maybe you never learned that 2x2=4. with 4 salvages happening, the bonuses that we seem to already have agreed upon, the salvagers would still be working at the same speed as a 2/2 system, but 2x as fast because of having 2x as many modules. This way, the bonuses would put it ahead of the standard ship, thereby making it a "SPECIALTY ship". Your arguments are bad for several reasons. 1. If the cost of making T2 ships was prohibitive, then how do people have hulks? 2. The T1 version is the destroyer, which as we have already covered, is usable by noobs 3. As a "SPECIALTY ship" the requirements should be higher. The mining barges have requirements that are too high for general use as well. 4. Of course a T2 isnt needed. If were arguing that, no T2 is NEEDED. Theyre just nice to use. Please think about your arguments before posting
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.25 18:05:00 - [38] Edited by: Riley Craven on 25/04/2007 18:42:18 Edited by: Riley Craven on 25/04/2007 18:05:47 Originally by: Suoh Amshar Mr. Craven. i was attempting to keep my arguments as clean and unoffensive as possible but evidently that doesnt work on one with as little intelligence as yourself. i retract my statement that you dont salvage much and replace it with the fact that you are mentally challenged, a fact that your yourself seem to be proving with every further post. Well if your trying to keep them clean, dont try to talk about something that you know nothing about, in this case 0.0 Nothing gets me angry faster than people believing something should be their way when they havent even played the entire game. But I will go through your combined arguements point by point. First from what I gather, you are argueing that the destroyer is the best ship for the job currently without any bonuses, but you want a t2 speciality ship. Heres the problem with that, the destroyers role is to be a frig killer, not a salvager. The idea behind t2 ships is to make their t1 versions even better. For example the osprey gets bonuses to logistics ability, the t2 version gets better resists and better bonuses to fill that role. To keep the game in line, there has to be a t1 ship with the role of salvager for it to make since to have a t2 version. 2. you are right that the coders could make any ship have any stat they want because they can play God. But does that mean they should? You are right this is just a game and reality is twisted to a certain point, but there should be no reason to twist it just for the sake of twisting it. Thats a whole can of worms I NEVER want to see opened in Eve. Further despite the ship being better just because its t2 doesnt neccesarialy mean that its systems are smaller. By that arguement the ship would be using the same space because of its better abilities. There are always trade offs, things arent better for the sake of being better. My comment about low skill players was in regards to your comment about new players salvaging in 0.0. Just because you ccant invision a low skill player doing this doesnt mean that you should block people into a tiny box. The ship should be usefull in all space. Now we get to the high slot arguement. Your math is nice but I am appyling different standards than you. Lets look at the osprey. Its gets a 20% to mining yeild per lvl. at lvl 5 you are using 3 lasers but its like you are using 6. So my arguement is that if you gave it more high slots with that bonus then it would be like using 16, which is just silly. My arguement centers around the fact that the destroyer as purley just a salvage ship (only doing salvage not looting too) the destroyer is great. What I am saying is that the destroyer is too good in that current field and the speciality ship should nerf it a tiny bit and add the ability to loot and defend itself. Its called a comprimise. Also There is a very specific reason I said to use 5 high slots and not just 4 :) On to your small bullet points. 1.Let me rephrase, the cost of production isnt prohibitive, but the cost of purchase is. While some people do have hulks the price points discourages ALOT of people from buying them. 2. The t1 version is not the destroyer because its not designed to fit that role, it can just do it well in one situation. 3. The reqs should be higher, but not so much higher that you should have to train to get into a t2 ship just to be able to do your job properly. 4. At least we agreed on that point :)
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:03:00 - [39] I wasn't going to say anything more, since it would just be going round in circles, but I want to clarify something about T2 ships. It is not in any way true that T2 ships are improvements upon the role of the T1. The interdictor is a poor frig killer, it has not got the range bonus of the destroyer, and the bonuses that it does recieve have nothing to do with fig popping. The skiff and Mackinaw have different specialistations to the procurer and the retriever. The Eos has a different specialisation than the Brutix etc etc etc... Not that it is a major point, I still maintain that my arguments stand as they are. Carry on.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.25 21:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Ishma Nelass I wasn't going to say anything more, since it would just be going round in circles, but I want to clarify something about T2 ships. It is not in any way true that T2 ships are improvements upon the role of the T1. The interdictor is a poor frig killer, it has not got the range bonus of the destroyer, and the bonuses that it does recieve have nothing to do with fig popping. The skiff and Mackinaw have different specialistations to the procurer and the retriever. The Eos has a different specialisation than the Brutix etc etc etc... Not that it is a major point, I still maintain that my arguments stand as they are. Carry on. About the only point you have is the interdictor. For barges you can always argue that they were just further specializations of the types of mining the barges already did. The brutix had gang bonuses and the Eos was a further interation of that.
Reykik	Posted - 2007.04.26 14:26:00 - [41] This doesn't seem complicated. There really just needs to be a couple differently sized salvage scows. Destroyer size with ~600 cargo space. And specialty freighter sized ones with immense loads. The issue is what bonuses that hull can give to support salvaging and how many slots are needed to be effective. I'm new. I admit I'm new, but I'm intrigued by salvaging my own stuff (I hate to let things go to waste) and have read up all I can. Thus, this is all theorycraft on my part. If I'm wrong, that's fine, just be polite. It seems that the biggest complaint about salvaging is speed. Both the speed of getting to the wreck, and the speed of processing the wreck. To fix that, we need longer-range and faster tractors, faster ABs, faster salvagers (and, of course, tractor or salvage drones :P). There is also concern about being able to hold out long enough if you get jumped, either with limited offensive capability to take out NPCs or enough tanking to have time to kick in the overdrive. So what should a salvage ship have? Think about classic sci-fi and all our images of salvage ships. The Nostromo from Alien for example, or even the Jawa salvage crawler from Episode IV (while not a ship, the principle is similar). It's a big factory. It plods along, scooping up each and every scrap of something and processing it into something useful by cleaning it up or breaking it down into components. Once you get that concept, you can easily start to pick out the bonuses for the hull. +tractor beam range and pull speed +salvager range and process time bonuses +salvage chance +cargo capacity This is really all you need to consider for salvage bonues, and things like cargo can probably be removed if the ship is bing enough or there are enough lows for extenders. As for a loadout plan, destroyers have a great base layout to follow. 7 or 8 highs, a couple mids and lows. Since tractors and salavagers are highs, just keep that in mind. Give me a ship with 8 highs, one to two MAXIMUM turrents/launchers, and then vary the number of mids and lows from 2 to 4 based upon variants. 8/2/3 for a baseline, maybe 8/4/4 for a tech two or faction. Add a drone bay as appropriate from 5-10m3 for a destroyer size, maybe up to 50 or 75 for the large factories. If salvage/tractor drones come around, those numbers become more of a factor and may need to be ramped up, but you get the idea. Right now, I'm planning to use a Catalyst as a salvager when I move into cruisers. 8 high slots and solid (but not great) cargo. I'll start with 4 tractors and 4 salvagers and see how that goes. Add an AB and any anything else I can to make the ship fast (both moving and processing time) and it's a good platform. Yea it's paperthin, but I'm running missions and the NPCs are dead. Just some thoughts.
Shichiro Arasaka	Posted - 2007.04.29 11:28:00 - [42] I use a destroyer, with 4 tractors and 4 salvagers, an afterburner plus power enhancemants in mid and low slots and it works fine for me. I can salvage 4 hulks at a time, while moving to the fifth at equivalent sub-warp speed of a standard frigate, clearing the field in no time at all. I only salvage in hi-sec so no need to worry about armour and shields. If youre salavaging in low-sec i'd say make sure your using a ship with enough power to run at least 4 tracs/salvagers, tanked to the max, or have a couple of comabt ships as escort.
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.04.29 16:32:00 - [43] Here Here!!! READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.29 19:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Signaldog Here Here!!! Spam, the threads are not really related.
Ishma Nelass	Posted - 2007.04.29 21:36:00 - [45] Sweety, if you're referring to his signature, then that is not what he is talking about. He means 'Hear hear!' as in, 'I agree with the aforementioned.'
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.04.29 22:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Ishma Nelass Sweety, if you're referring to his signature, then that is not what he is talking about. He means 'Hear hear!' as in, 'I agree with the aforementioned.' Stop calling me sweety, its freaking me and my wife out.
Madari Caldari Spaced Cowboys	Posted - 2007.04.30 19:38:00 - [47] Edited by: Madari on 30/04/2007 19:37:10 I like the idea of a specialized salvager ship. Things I would like in a salvager ship to have. 1) around 1k-1.5k of cargo space 2) longer range and or faster tractor abilites.(added to chassis bonus or new module type) 3) longer range and or faster salvaging abilites.(added to chassis bonus or new module type) 4) an AOE salvager with a shorter range and longer cycle time or less salvage then regular salvagers to compensate. 5) T2 Salvagers that loot as well as salvage longer cycle time to compensate. (why can I salvage from 5k but have to tractor the wreak to 1.5k to loot it first?) 6) same amout of Mid/low slots, resist and hit points as a hulk (because they can tank in 0.0) 7) 50m3 of drone space for defence or if those salvage drones ever come out. :) I think a mix of this would make salvaging one very fun profession. :)
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.01 22:18:00 - [48] I'd really like one of the DEVs to post just saying they've read this. :D READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:25:00 - [49] Originally by: Signaldog I'd really like one of the DEVs to post just saying they've read this. :D I see them post more in the General forum then here. That being said if someone can figure out how to get beer sent to a dev at CCP hq I will spring the money for it to get this as well as some other things on their to see list :) Might even write them a manifesto :)
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Signaldog I'd really like one of the DEVs to post just saying they've read this. :D I see them post more in the General forum then here. That being said if someone can figure out how to get beer sent to a dev at CCP hq I will spring the money for it to get this as well as some other things on their to see list :) Might even write them a manifesto :) forget beer, i've got a good bottle of whisky i'd donate just to get DEV to read this stuff....but off topic....still want a salvage ship and a few tweaks to make it an acutal business. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.01 23:31:00 - [51] Bonus to salvager ship: Immune to WAR or does not allow a war dec to transfer to gang members while you are flying a salvager. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.02 00:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Signaldog Bonus to salvager ship: Immune to WAR or does not allow a war dec to transfer to gang members while you are flying a salvager. Um No.
Signaldog Gallente Venom. THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.05.02 19:35:00 - [53] Why no? Maybe i didn't give enough details of my thought. If i am running a salvaging BUSINESS with a salvaging ship (supposing it's an unarmed ship), why should my clients be involved in any war that my corp or alliance is in? Doesn't seem fair that if my alliance wants to fight the privateers that anyone who gangs with me should be at risk. I have no problem being a target, but my clients shouldn't be. Just a thought. READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.02 21:24:00 - [54] Originally by: Signaldog Why no? Maybe i didn't give enough details of my thought. If i am running a salvaging BUSINESS with a salvaging ship (supposing it's an unarmed ship), why should my clients be involved in any war that my corp or alliance is in? Doesn't seem fair that if my alliance wants to fight the privateers that anyone who gangs with me should be at risk. I have no problem being a target, but my clients shouldn't be. Just a thought. News flash, Eve isnt a game based on fairness. Your clients are paying you to do a job and if you have enemies there should be a way to strike back at the contribution.
magnetmannen	Posted - 2007.05.04 13:14:00 - [55] i like salvaging too and think it needs to be its own profession, with its own drones and everything. agents could give out salvage missions, you could scan for wrecks or forgotten structures out in space, and if you find some you can tear it down for parts and minerals, the shiptype should be under industry, with a ship capable of many highslots, large cargobay, spesialised salvaging equipment for different things, capability of defending against anything, i say make this a new bs size ships that are much larger with only bonuses to salvaging and dronerange, nothing else, and therefore less likely to be preferred in pvp. but still somwhat able to fight with a pirate or wartarget. salvage in this large industrial way could be really sweet i think, a new type of branching all in all. i imagine great things as space salvager, many wrecks to salvage..
Emerald666 Amarr Initech Corporation Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2007.05.05 17:09:00 - [56] Edited by: Emerald666 on 05/05/2007 17:07:25 My Salvager: Catalyst Setup: Skill - Salvaging Level 5 HIGH:4x Salvager I, 4x Small Tractor Beam I. MEDIUM:1x 1MN Afterburner II, 1x Cap Recharger II. LOW: 1x Small Armor Repairer II, 2x Expanded Cargohold II. Drone Bay: 1x T2 Light Drone. Rig Slots: 3x Salvage Tackle I. Works fine for me... Amarr 4TW! :)
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.05 17:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Emerald666 Edited by: Emerald666 on 05/05/2007 17:07:25 My Salvager: Catalyst Setup: Skill - Salvaging Level 5 HIGH:4x Salvager I, 4x Small Tractor Beam I. MEDIUM:1x 1MN Afterburner II, 1x Cap Recharger II. LOW: 1x Small Armor Repairer II, 2x Expanded Cargohold II. Drone Bay: 1x T2 Light Drone. Rig Slots: 3x Salvage Tackle I. Works fine for me... Wow, your arguement just proves why a speciality ship is needed. You've spent close to 100mil in fittings for a ship that cost 1mil to do your job well. Bravo.
Signaldog Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2007.05.11 19:09:00 - [58] bump READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
Torquemada Credo	Posted - 2007.05.14 11:20:00 - [59] I seem to be the only person Ive seen that favours a frigate to salvage in. I currently use a Kessie fitted: High : 4 Salvagers Med : 1MN named MWD, 2 Cap rechargers Low : 2 Overdrives I dont use tractors as you can see, but travel at 2100ish, with the over drives active I have 220 cargo, if I need more I can offline the overdrive to take me to 260ish then 305. Ive only recently switched to the Kessie from the executioner, which fittings wise is the same as above minus 2 cap rechargers and 2 Salvers and has a max cargo of 135. This ship goes at 4500m/s ish so even very disperate wrecks can be cleared very quickly. As carried in a hauler in my case bestower set up with a tractor and salver, these ships are A) cheap B) quick Anywhoo, back on topic not only do I like the idea of a salv bonus ship I like the idea of salv bonus modules to. Torque
ahn'Ka Minmatar Purify	Posted - 2007.05.26 04:23:00 - [60] I like this idea, due to the fact I salvage all the wrecks from missions.. But another idea I would like to toss around is to make salvaging more profitable is to add a new exploration site. I can imagine it now. "your scanners have found the site of an ancient battle, wrecks of ships of many types float here forgotten and best of all yours" Perhaps if you are their scanning in your cov ops fighter, you find said site, you warp in and BAM there is a some NPC salvagers floating around so you fly in and start shooting. then when its done you fly back pick up your Specialised salvage ship and have several hundred wrecks to salvage. I can almost see the isk signs in my eyes. well only my opinion so think of it as you may. to die for one's people is a glorious act.
Roshandari Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.05 20:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 25/04/2007 18:42:18 Edited by: Riley Craven on 25/04/2007 18:05:47 Well if your trying to keep them clean, dont try to talk about something that you know nothing about, in this case 0.0 ... ... ... gets a 20% to mining yeild per lvl. at lvl 5 you are using 3 lasers but its like you are using 6...if you gave it more high slots ...it would be like using 16...What I am saying is that the destroyer is too good in that current field and the speciality ship should nerf it a tiny bit ... 1.Let me rephrase, the cost of production isnt prohibitive, but the cost of purchase is. While some people do have hulks the price points discourages ALOT of people from buying them. 2. The t1 version is not the destroyer because its not designed to fit that role, it can just do it well in one situation. 3. The reqs should be higher, but not so much higher that you should have to train to get into a t2 ship just to be able to do your job properly... First comment; Riley, you can't dump the blame for comments getting defensive/hostile on Suoh. He made a civil argument; you're the one who over-reacted and got defensive. My next comment is about the Osprey example. There's one key difference between the Osprey and the dedicated salvage ship w/ bonuses; that 20% bonus on the Osprey increases the yield. 20% chance for better salvage doesn't increase your salvage quantity, just your chance of getting it that cycle. So it's not like you've got 16 salvagers...it's like you've got however many you fit and you're really efficient at using them. That means the destroyer wouldn't be too good in the role. Now, if were suggesting 20% bonus to increase salvage yield for salvage ships, maybe, but even then I don't think it would be imbalanced. It would fill the role of a specialized profession ship, fundamentally better at it's job than any of the other ships that can also do it's job (anything with a salvager). As for your bullet point arguments; 1) We're talking about a specialized ship. It's going to be small-ish, and with invention out you can bet a lot of people are going to be working on them, hence availability goes up and cost goes down. Within a month or two, any new t2 salvage destroyer will have dropped in price that isn't such a discouragement for most people (10-20m just like interdictors). You can use -anything- to salvage and still make a living at it. The call I keep hearing is for something -better- at it, meaning it's specialized (t2) and therefor more expensive/uncommon than the generic stuff you can use instead. 2) This is the only point you've made that carries weight in my opinion. Turning a war ship into an industrial ship is a large change in role. I still don't think it's outside the boundaries of reason though; the NPC corporations in charge of releasing these blueprints are all run by the intelligent people at CCP. Is it really so incomprehensible for them to say to themselves "Wow, a lot of people are using destroyers to run salvage. Lets make a harder, faster, better salvager based on the destroyer and sell it to them." The answer is no...that's business. It happens all the time. Corporations look for ways to make money, so the ship design corps would naturally try to fill the needs of the pod pilots. This would also account for the increased cargo space of the salvage ship; it's designed with that in mind instead of combat. The reqs wouldn't be much different if it was a tough tech 1 ship with all new skills to train for like barges (for a noob especially), so it wouldn't really be any different than training for a low level t2 really (like interceptors...). The salvage destroyer would probably require Destroyers V, Salvage V, and Spaceship Command III. That's easier to train from scratch than Barge skills, and since your alternative to t2 salvage dessys is a new class like barges...'nuff said. The key to living in a sci-fi universe: Never wear a redshirt with an blank nametag...they always die first.
Roshandari Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.05 20:34:00 - [62] Edited by: Roshandari on 05/06/2007 20:39:54 Now for my specific thoughts on the matter; I feel that the destroyer is the natural choice primarily because it works (even though that was never it's intended role originally) and because with some tweaks, it fits the bill perfectly. Salvaging is easy to do with anything, and a lot of ships we already have can do it well, so it's viable as a profession as is. To call for a ship that's even better at it as a dedicated role really invites either a new barge type -or- a t2 variant of something we already have (coughdestroyerscough); maybe even both with one suited more for fast salvage in low threat areas, and one that's more of a hauler with extra tank ability and highs for dangerous areas. Now, for the destroyer variant. Reykik tried to catalog the needs of a salvage ship and did a pretty good job. I think that if we have a salvage destroyer, it should be flimsy, just like it's tech 1 brother. It is, after all, not a combat ship and requires protection. That goes for 0.0 too. I think a balanced starting point for bonuses and requirements would be this; Destroyer V, Salvaging V, Spaceship Command III, Wrecker I +5% bonus to propulsion boost, 10% bonus to cargo hold per Destroyer level 5% bonus to salvage chance and 10% bonus to tractor beam range and speed per Wrecker level. At max skills this would result in a ship that has a 25% bonus to ab/mwd speed, 50% bigger cargo hold than it's base value, 25% salvage chance bonus, and 50% longer range/faster tractors. With 8 highs (no turrets/bays) it'll be ideal for fitting 4/4 loadouts. 1-3 mids and 3-4 lows gives it some room to play with fittings, but in all reality it'll be 1ab/mwd, 1-2 cap chargers, and 3-4 cargo expander IIs. Fit 2 Salvage tackles and this ship quickly gets the highest possibility of salvage. As for the possibility of a tougher hauler-esque salvage ship that can tank in lowsec/0.0 and haul the salvage/loot of larger spawns, I haven't given it as much thought. I'm not a lowsec/0.0 salvager. I'm sure that if people stop saying 'you're idea isn't any good because ______', you low-sec/0.0 salvagers can probably fill out the details of the hauler type to suit your needs. Riley's original post might be the way to go for that with some modifications to make it the t2 dessy's bigger, tougher, 0.0 brother. Maybe base it on the battlecruiser since they're the destroyer's big brother? Most of my argument for destroyers being the primary salvage ship candidate is this; if you don't play 0.0 there's absolutely no reason to train destroyer to 5. Interdictors are useless if they can't use the bubble, and since they're only 0.0...I want to see something come out of the dessy hull that's useful everywhere to give me a reason to train it, and I think that mode of thinking resonates more with what CCP tends to do in terms of introducing new t2 classes. The key to living in a sci-fi universe: Never wear a redshirt with an blank nametag...they always die first.
Dominator9987 Minmatar Macrocosm Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 12:10:00 - [63] Originally by: Titus Blackthorn isn't this a "destroyer"? basically? slap in some salvage rigs and presto!!! sorry not flame ... a ship with salvage bonus built in would be pretty o.k. imho Hm... I use a Heretic to salvage my missions. The salvage rigs nicely offset navigation bonus just enough so that the tractors can help rigs catch up at 50ms. (When I stop running a mission to salvage for whatever reason, it can Afterburn at 1100ms for moving from gate to gate and getting to long dist wrecks) Honestly, for a salvage ship, 8 high, 2 mid, 3 low, or im sticking with my dictor lol.
Talkie Toaster Amarr	Posted - 2007.06.11 12:58:00 - [64] i have to say i dont really feel the need at the moment., with ony one type of salvager and TB in the game a destroyer does the work perfectly. with 3 salvage rigs on it wont run out of cap and you'll be salvaging big missions in no time. now if they were to introduce longer TBs then maybe it would become an issue
fuze Gallente Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency	Posted - 2007.06.12 09:40:00 - [65] Interdictors make fine salvagers so there you go.
Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:50:00 - [66] I was coming here to make this post myself. It would be nice to have a ship with salvage related bonuses and 8 high slots. 10% reduction in Salvager duration per level, and 10% reduction in Tractor beam capacitor need or something similar. You could argue that a destroyer already does this job well, but you could also say that a Brutix is a perfectlly good miner and you don't need a dedicated mining ship. ----- 0.0 System Renaming?
Harkwyth Mist Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.06.22 16:52:00 - [67] Any combat vessel, frigate, Destroyer, Criuser etc can be fitted for combat, and for mining, and for salvage, as such these represent generalist hulls Combat ships excell at combat - +turret tracking/damage %/level The mining barge excells at mining - +Ore yield %/level The industrial ships excell at cargo hauling - +cargo %/level There is no Salvaging equivalent If CCP were to add this class of ship to the game it would require a new hulltype and a new skill to fly it, also this new hulltype would need to fit within the existing structure of hulls and thier skill-level enhancements. This means IF this class of vessel were added to the game then its most logical skillbased bonus would be +x%/level chance of salvaging +x%range of salvagers or +5km control radius on Salvage Drones (if implemented) As for the actual implementation of the hull itself and its features, a Salvage vessel would be a non-combat based platform much like the Industrial Class or Mining Barge Class and therefore should offer no more than is presently available on either of those 2 hull classes in terms of Modification/Rigging slots, nor should it compete with the Industrial Class in terms of Cargospace. (Salvage Drones if ever added to the game can either be classed as a specialised form of Mining Drone, or placed into the Logistic section with repairers)
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr Dark Oracle Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:03:00 - [68] I would be all for a specialized salvaging ship. I have noted this in another post elsewhere, but some possible modifiers this class of vessel may incorporate could include: 1) Increase in salvaging % chance 2) Increase in tractor beam ranges 3) Cargo hold bonuses 4) Increase in salvaging ranges. 5) Increase in amount of materials salvaged.
Katana Seiko Made in Germany	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:01:00 - [69] There are currently cruisers around that add mining yield... Well, maybe someone could add a cruiser that has i.e. 10% chance of salvage retrieval per (whatever race) cruiser skill level... Make it an additional tier... I think that this might work out best... -- The future begins now - in EVE we live it, in real life we create it! Your sig is too big. Please keep it under 400x120 and less than 24000 bytes. -the sexiest moderator ([email protected]
Kosmonaught Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.12 04:47:00 - [70] Not sure if anyone mentioned it but when I heard about salvaging I was expecting an ORE classed vessel designed to salvage. I think CCP should make the salvaging ship an ore vessel if any. Anyways they are asteroid extracting specialists why not ships too?
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2007.07.12 05:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Ishma Nelass à The big advantage to using a destroyer to salvage - apart from the 8 high slots - is that it's the only class of ship which can fit an oversized AB and get a good speed boost out of it while maintaining a decent salvage set up in the highs. This allows it to effectively have an MWD in deadspace. Well, no. The BC can do the same. I am an empire/complex/0.0 salvager. Or rather, I kill **** and donÆt let it go to waste. I regularly clean up all the wrecks I find in the belts I rat in (after first asking if that is ok with the owner). Yes, the need for a large cargo hold in 0.0 is necessary. Ok û to that end, I did a lot of research. I wanted a ship that had 8 high slots, was capable of moving at decent speeds, had a large cargo hold and wasnÆt a total pig to fly. It had to be able to pull salvage-duty on a small complex or multi-stage mission. It had to be able to get to the wrecks quickly, so they could be tractored in û or be able to make it to that distant acceleration gate. This means it needs to work with an AB and not a MWD. It needs to have more than 1000m/3 of storage. It also needs to be somewhat responsive. My final requirement was to have a ship with a moderate tank on it, in case an unexpected wave of reinforcements in that exploration complex suddenly target the salvager û just enough to tank it long enough to run, but not enough to pull tank duty in a mission. I also hoped for a few extra mid slots to fit damps in case I get an unexpected and unwelcome visit from another player. Again, just enough to align and run. My solution is, I think, the best all-around ship in the game for salvaging (till a salvager is invented): THE HURRICANE. Yep, I said it. Hurricane. Yes, it is a 30-odd mil Minmatar BC û but it has ALL of my requirements. Besides, there is something poetic about a Minnie ship acting as a garbage scow, isnÆt there? The salvaged takes out the salvageà? Sorry to you Minnie fanbois û but I couldnÆt pass it upà Hurricane Salvage ship HIGHS 4X Tractor Beam 4X Salvager (or any combination you like) MIDS For empire missions: 10MN AB û on this setup it will run 23/7 at just under 500m/s. This is perfect for pulling cans and wrecks at full speed across a mission zone. ?? anything you want. I have used Target painters and Webbers to assist my combat main in the mission zone. With this setup you can follow on in the mission û but be careful of reinforcements. For 0.0/lowsec duty 100MN AB û you will need to watch your CAP with this one, but it will get you up to speeds in excess of 1000m/s. This is great for those 0.0 scenarios where the wrecks are spread across a wide area û of if you get jumped by rats or enemies, the speed might get you out of trouble û especially when you pair it with: 3X Sensor Damps. These will let you damp at least one target to break lock û and if you only have one ship scramming you, this should be enough to let you get away. LOWS (any combination of the following, for a total of 6) T2 Cargo Expanders T2 Nanofibers I personally use 3 T2 expanders and 3 T2 Nanos. The nanos give me agility and speed. It makes the ship reasonably agile û about like an unbuffed cruiser, even with the 3 expanders. The 3 expanders will give you around 1000m3 of cargo. This is enough for a large can û to give you over 1000m3 of cargo. RIGS Wellà if you wanted to spend the money, then I would fit 1 Salvage Tackle and TWO Cargo Optimization rigs. Ya û they are more than 50 mil each û I know, but if this is your empire mission boat, it will pay for itself quickly. I believe that with 2 optimization rigs you will be able to run 1500m3 with 3 expanders. If you donÆt want to spend the cash on those alloyed tritanium bars used in the optimization rig (and I didnÆt) then just go with any number of salvage tackles (I use one) and anything else you want.
Tohmu Blackwing	Posted - 2007.07.12 05:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Ishma Nelass à Alternatively, the salvage role could allow it to warp in and out of deadspace and use MWDs there normally, but prevent it from fitting weapons of any kind. This would solve the issue of getting a salvager into a pocket requiring an expensive key and would make the salvaging proffession more palatable, at least for people like me who get frustrated by the warp restrictions in deadspace... Gotta disagree with you on this. There are WAY too many possible exploits here. This would make the ideal pirate ship û simply warp right in on someone in the middle of the 4th room of Angel Extravaganzaà I donÆt know what the person would DO once there, but an enterprising pirate could figure that one outà Originally by: Reykik This doesn't seem complicated. There really just needs to be a couple differently sized salvage scows. Destroyer size with ~600 cargo space. And specialty freighter sized ones with immense loads. The issue is what bonuses that hull can give to support salvaging and how many slots are needed to be effective. à It seems that the biggest complaint about salvaging is speed. Both the speed of getting to the wreck, and the speed of processing the wreck. To fix that, we need longer-range and faster tractors, faster ABs, faster salvagers (and, of course, tractor or salvage drones :P). There is also concern about being able to hold out long enough if you get jumped, either with limited offensive capability to take out NPCs or enough tanking to have time to kick in the overdrive. à +tractor beam range and pull speed +salvager range and process time bonuses +salvage chance +cargo capacity This is really all you need to consider for salvage bonues, and things like cargo can probably be removed if the ship is bing enough or there are enough lows for extenders. As for a loadout plan, destroyers have a great base layout to follow. 7 or 8 highs, a couple mids and lows. Since tractors and salavagers are highs, just keep that in mind. Give me a ship with 8 highs, one to two MAXIMUM turrents/launchers, and then vary the number of mids and lows from 2 to 4 based upon variants. 8/2/3 for a baseline, maybe 8/4/4 for a tech two or faction. Add a drone bay as appropriate from 5-10m3 for a destroyer size, maybe up to 50 or 75 for the large factories. If salvage/tractor drones come around, those numbers become more of a factor and may need to be ramped up, but you get the idea. Excellent suggestions. I think he hit on the right combination of bonuses for a salvage ship. Maybe this new ships needs a fitting bonus to the LARGE tractor beams that I see descriptions for. Kind of like the bonuses a dictor gets to fitting an interdictor launcherà I love his idea for different sized salvage ships. Factionà mmmà why not?
Wolflon	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:20:00 - [73] This is something that I've been looking at myself and after reading some of the excellent comments here I thought I'd try and summarise what i would like to see. Based on a T2 Hoarder. 8 x high slots - No Turrets or Launcher hard points 3 x mid slots 4 x low slots 1,500 m3 cargo space 50 m3 drone space CPU - About 250 Powergrid - About 150 Cap - 500 Velocity of about 200 m3 The ship would have a 99% reduction in tractor beam CPU requirement bonus to go with a 50km tractor beam with a huge CPU just like the barges with Strip miners. The Normal 5% increase in velocity and cargo hold for Minmater Indy skill. From the T2 skill a 5% increase in Salvage per level. I have based this on what I get from my Thrasher and what I need to make salvaging quicker. With the low CPU, Powergrid and Cap this would be a very difficult ship to turn PVP I think. Let me know what you all think.
Cornchips e X i l e FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 13:52:00 - [74] I was thinking along the same lines as poster above me, but was thinking of using the Destroyer Hull as a base. Same slot lay outs that they have now, except give them bonuses to Tractor beam range, and Max Cargo. Something like 10% Tractor Range per Destroyer level, and 5% cargo. And drop the combat bonuses.
Harkwyth Mist Caldari The Black Ops	Posted - 2007.08.26 06:06:00 - [75] why do people keep suggesting enhancements to tractor beams ?? Its a module that merely facilitates the ease of salvaging. You can salvage WITHOUT tractor beams. You can't salvage without Salvage I's Salvage II modules would be a nice addition however.
Salpad	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:20:00 - [76] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale What I'd like to see is something like the Exequror with 5-6 highs and a ship bonus of 20% to tractor beam range per level. Either that or they could just seed medium and large tractor beams already. Yes, either of those would be wonderful: A small ship dedicated to salvaging, either destroyer-sized or cruiser-sized. Or seeded larger tractor beams (seeing as we currently only have Small Tractor Beam I). Better yet: Give us both!
Salpad	Posted - 2007.08.27 02:58:00 - [77] Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere 1) Increase in salvaging % chance 2) Increase in tractor beam ranges 3) Cargo hold bonuses 4) Increase in salvaging ranges. 5) Increase in amount of materials salvaged. 6. Increase in Salvaging speed. Even if this is just a -5% cycle time reduction per skill level. 7. Increase in tractor beam pull speed. Currently they pull at 1000 m/s, but there could be a +10% per skill level bonus to pull speed (1500 m/s at max) or even +15% (1750 m/s at max). Also, of course, one could hope for bigger Salvager modules and bigger tractor beam modules. If so, it would make perfect sense for a dedicated Salvaging Ship to get some kind of fitting bonus to these modules, in terms of reduced CPU need, reduced PowerGrid need, and/or reduced capacitor usage. Finally, I don't really like your item #5. My impression is that salvage and loot are both determined when an NPC ship is created (spawned, if you will). Therefore, a bonus to this makes no sense.
Apis Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:18:00 - [78] I'm using a destroyer for looting/salvaging my lvl 4 mission wrecks atm. But i would kill for a specific loot/salvage-ship. The problem i run into is that my 552 m3 cargo space just isn't enough. Meaning i have to fly the mission in 3 different ships. A BS, a Destroyer and finally a Industrial. It would be nice to cut it back to 2 ships. So my idea is a ship much like a mining barge. And with some good skills i would like to see the following specs: - 4 tractorbeams - 4 salvager - around 2500m3 cargon - around 40 km tractor beam range - twice the salvage speed - 50m3 drone space An other idea is to introduce looting and salvage drones. These could be medium drones with a decent cargo bay. They should be able to auto loot and salvage all wrecks that belong to the user. So not that the drones are causing aggro by looting other wrecks. something like that... greets Non Semper Arcum Tendit
FraGTaL	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:07:00 - [79] I like the idea of a destroyer sized salvage ship with 8 high slots and some meds/lows (no or very few guns/launchers though). Lets call it 'Search and Rescue'!! Speed: 300-400 cargo: 450-600 (its a salvager not a hauler!!) sensor range: 40-60 rest: like a destroyer possible bonuses could be: 10-20% tractor beam range and speed per level 10% increase in salvager speed per level 10% increase to AB/MWD boost per level 5% increase in chance of yield per level role bonus: 100% success rate of salvage (im not talking about yield or chance to get rig parts, just successfully salvage it no matter if u find something or not). Later T2 variants of this S&R ship could have some resistance bonuses, warp core stabilizer bonus or shield/armor boost bonus. My personal wish would be a new T1 destroyer-sized ship with the following bonuses: 10-20% tractor beam range and speed per level 10% increase to AB/MWD boost per level role bonus: 100% success rate of salvage This ship is very fast and has a good cargo amount (450-600 m¦). Skills: destroyers 3 salvaging 4 spaceship command 3 S&R 1
Viktor Rasmussen Gallente Indra-Sveijk Korps Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.09.23 11:28:00 - [80] I really like the idea of an salvage ship. For me it's an industry class like ship with 6 or 8 high slots, one med and a few low slots. This ship is just a "simple" ship which can't do much but salvaging and loot items. Don't forgett that this ship is like a scrap dealer in space. This ship don't have to get high resistences or gunnery slots. This shoud'nt be an uber-1337-"i can do all"-Ship. It should just do perfectly for which it was produces: salvaging + looting. For this reason it needs a decent cargo (approx. 1k). This cargo is enough for this situation and dont make it an uber-hauler. If you need more cargo - then use expander/rigs to extend the cargo a little. I really like to see such a ship in eve. We have tons of war-vessels so far. I think we need a some kind of new alternative ship classes like this one. Such an salvage ship can have bonus to tractor-speed and/or range. But since I saw the medium and large tractors in the eve-DB with enhanced ranges I think the speed bonus is a good choice for such a ship. The ability to fit medium tractors (40km range) and more tractor-speed per skill level (maybe 20% per level to get the 40km cans in the same time as you currently get the 20km cans). Just my thoughts about this
Donatien Francois	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:58:00 - [81] Edited by: Donatien Francois on 24/09/2007 06:03:10 Good ideas. It should probably be a cruiser scale ship, something about the size of the cargo industrials, and a little on the slow side, but not as slow as the industrial haulers. I think 6 high slots would be fine, because there are other ships with more, and with the bonuses it could get as much done as a ship with an extra tractor beam and salvager.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.08 17:36:00 - [82] MUAHAHAHAHAH, THIS IS SO FUNNY THAT I CANNOT CONTAIN MY LAUGHTER. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=609543 And people WONDERED why I wanted the ship to be based of a cruiser hull with lots of cargo room..... Now all you empire dorks that said it was such a stupid idea can now feel the pain that is salvage/looting of 0.0 ratter types..
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.09 01:48:00 - [83] Now as to all the other arguements in this thread. First and foremost it makes no sense to have a specialized t2 ship that does not have a viable t1 alternative. If you notice the general pattern for t2 has been a ship that is VERY specialized and ADVANCES its t1 variant that much more. Now this isnt always the case, buts its the case the majority of the time. Therefore my arguement is that the first dedicated salvage ship MUST be at least T1. Now as far as the hull is concerned. Lets give this some rational thought. I think we can ALL agree that space is a crucial factor(even more so because of the recent changes I posted above) But here's the thing because of what I said in this post about it needing a t1 variant first, the hull becomes irrelvant...... why do I say this? Because it means we need an entirely different type of hull... one we have yet to see. Personally, I feel that the perfect hull type would be the sigil mixed with the caracal. This ship hull has SOME speed because the sigil afterall is known to be a pretty fast hauler but because of this doesnt have the space as most industrails do... The caracal has the highs to get the job done and is also moderately speedy... Note both ships are fragil so it should inherit similar mixes of hitpoints Id say the average of the two.... Now I think we have come to a point where we should ask ourselves just why the destroyer is such a widely used salvage ship currently. Most would say its because the ship has alot of highs.... OK but why does it make it great? Looking at it further the highs allow you to fit a mix of tractors and salvagers that make it so you can salvage multiple wrecks at the same time while moving to other areas that you need to salvage. So if we take that to its logical conclusion you dont really need to have that many highs if the tractor range is increased by a good measure. This could be done one of two ways... introduce a medium salvager like a medium weapon that the destroyer couldnt fit because of grid issues but this ship could because it has a cruiser hull and thus more grid. Id say give it a range of 40-50km. You could also make a bonus for that in the ship to get the small that far... but youd also have to add a speed bonus cuse 500ms is slow when talking about distances that far. (the medium tractor would have the inherit better speed of course) So with that out of the way it would still need some mid and low slots to mount at least some defense and the ability to augment either its speed or its cargo room. I still think 1500 is a nice round cargo number. So what would that leave us for the t2 version? A deepspace version that has a bonus to warp strenght for get aways :) and some better resitances for alittle more survivability if the belt rats decide to change targets or whatever...
Dominator9987 Minmatar The Shambling Horde	Posted - 2007.10.09 02:55:00 - [84] heretic 2cpr 2nano ab t2 salvage tackle x2 4 tractor 4 salvager. salvage any level 4 in less than 9 minutes
Coleman Strykr	Posted - 2007.10.10 13:48:00 - [85] I am actually in the process of building a salvager that will still be of help on missions. Guy in my corp is running lvl 4's and we're getting a group together for some lvl 5 action soon as well, he doesn't salvage much, so I have started flying with him. Now my idea comes from a great desire to use drones as well, but I decided to get a mymidon, fit 3 tractors and 3 salvagers, not really sure about the lows yet, I'll fidle with it in a couple days, but I'll have 5 heavy drones of whatever damage type suits for the mission, and a decent tank set up in case I draw some attn during the mission. I'll have either 2 salvage tackles and 1 drone range extender or vice versa, now the drones mean I am earning the share of the bounty I am getting, I dont particularly like messing with the swag so he gets to keep all of that, and I'll be building him some mods rather cheap whenever he needs them. A designed salvager could be helpful, as long as it has some decent tank and at least a decent ability to protect itself, and either a range bonus on both salvagers and tractors, or simply the ability and availability of longer range tractors. a destroyer could be ok, but I would prefer at least cruiser class. Just thought I'd put in my .02 isk. Asta Coleman
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Union Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.13 05:11:00 - [86] use an Exequeror with t1 salvage rigs. 2 salvagers and 2 tractor beams and a mwd. you will not be able to click the keys faster than it can salvage the loot, therefor making anything with more bonuses moot. :P -- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them... Tralala
Rats daLab	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:35:00 - [87] I've been using an Onerios (Gallente logistics) to salvage in 00 with my other character in a command. the Onerios was great for me. I put an armor rep and rest were expander II's. Gave me enough room to loot 1 maybe 2 belts in 00. The 00 system had 3x battleship spawns which had about 200m¦ each bs. Oneiros: 4 HI 2x Track 2x Salvager I 5 MED whatever 4 LOW Medium Armor Repair 3x Expander II This fit allowed me to tank the frig/cruiser npc's while i was salvaging. i would either sit in one spot and salvage or drag 2 wrecks while salvaging while moving to the 2nd group of wrecks.
Deicidal	Posted - 2007.10.16 14:33:00 - [88] currently the "best" salvage ship setup i see, is 4 tracor beams and 4 salvagers on a Catalyst Destroyer, with 3 salvaging rigs, and shield / armor armor hardeners. the only thing i would actualy love to see is a ship that gives a bonus to the range of tractor beams, and or the range of salvagers... perhaps a mod, or a rig implemented, to be added to a ship versus an entirely new ship.
Neu Bastian	Posted - 2007.10.22 05:42:00 - [89] /sign bonuses would be nice in either range of salvager, range of tb's, - cap of salvagers/tb's, + to salvage chance, - salvage time... maybe make them differ for each race. :) I vote for a new hull :) see no reasons to give it a good tank since the idea is to salvage after combat and not during, tho nice cargo for looting wouldn't go amiss. Hmmmm tractor/fetching drones for gallente, fast and little time salvage for mataris... insert daydream here
Rahyze	Posted - 2007.12.18 07:22:00 - [90] With the current change implemented by CCP to curb the use of mineral compression, whatever this salvager ship is it will need to be a hauler type. I did a few missions and realized that the cargo space on most ships will not allow for the new 100m3 modules. (these modules use to be 5m3) I ran Worlds Collide and found that I had to jump out 3 times to salvage the "Warzone" area, I averaged about 2 jumps out for each room. Current salvager is a Thrasher with 650m3 of cargo space, and averaged about 1500m/3 of loot per room. I feel that a new ship needs to be designed. My opinions are such that the ship needs the following: Suficient cargo space to hold a full missions worth of loot/salvage. A bonus to tractor beam optimal range/speed. (like the Golem) No combat abilities. Fast enough to not make those missions with a 50k/m gate take forever, but otherwise slow. (like a barge) Have just enough CPU/PG to fit the items used for salvaging. (TB's/Salvagers/Rigs) A bonus to salvagers or salvager duration time. (would be nice but not needed) I thought about something like the blockade runners, but with more highslots and a few specific bonuses. Remember this isn't a ship that should be taken into a hostile enviroment. It's there to clean up the mess.
Serathii	Posted - 2007.12.18 11:28:00 - [91] i suggest a tech 1 frigate, for new people to start thier salvaging career, should be flyable with less then 2 days of training(cause that seems like alot at first). salvage cycle bonus, and cargo bonus(cause new people would loot everything, even the metal scraps) second stop, a tech 1 cruiser, tractor speed bonus(your gonna be salvaging wrecks further away)salvage cycle bonus, to keep it fast-ish(nice cargohold too, cause some items just have wierd sizes, and it sucks to choose what part of nice loot to trow out) alternative second stop: tech 2 frigate, same bonusses as the tech 1, add in speed bonus to get to the wrecks, and maybe a resist bonus, that doesnt help alot since frigs are small anyway, but thats all i could think of third stop, tech 2 cruiser, like tech 1 cruiser, add in (more)tractor speed and range, a little cargohold more(should have 1k or around that) alternative third stop, tech 2 cruiser(0.0 salvager), should be able to tank 1-2(crappy) BS while looting that officer rat(but no guns), also, increased cargo size by alot, since theres not that many stations in 0.0, should have about 1.5-2k cargo, but should be bigger then 2.5k(we still need industrials) i know some people prefer destroyers, but they just suck in my opinion
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.18 12:06:00 - [92] The Junker Class 2/2/6 Upgrade Hardpoints 2 CPU 150 PG 60 Industrial ship bonus 5% range to tractors per level and targeting range Salvage ship bonus 5% Bonus to access difficulty bonus per level Role bonus 100% range and velocity to tractors Hull covetor class. Cargo 4000m3 Drone bay 15m3 Max targeting 40km Max velociity 90m/s Capacitor 550 Recharge time 375 secs Prereqs Salvage ship level 1 Salvaging level 4 Long range targeting level 4 Industrial level 5 Spaceship Command level 4 Science level 5
Amarr Holymight deii feram Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.12.21 03:43:00 - [93] "Junker" T2 Salvage ship 4/4/6 Rig slots 2 CPU 225 Powergrid 55 Hull Cormorant Class. Cargo Capacity 1200m3 Max targeting 45km Max velociity 220m/s Shield Em 0 Explosive 60 Kinetic 40 Thermal 55 Armor Em 60 Explosive 10 Kinetic 25 Thermal 30 Prereqs Mechanic Level V Science level V Caldari Frigate V Destroyers IV Spaceship Command IV Spaceship Command III Salvaging level III Long range targeting level III Navigation II Junker ship level II Destroyer skill bonus 10% range to tractors & salvage tackle per level. Junker skill bonus 5% Bonus to access difficulty bonus per level. Role bonus 100% range and velocity to tractor beams. "Digger" T2 Archaeology ship 3/6/5 Rig slots 2 CPU 270 Powergrid 55 Hull Catalyst Class. Cargo Capacity 320m3 Drone bay 50m3 Bandwidth 25m3 Max targeting 55km Max velociity 420m/s Shield Em 0 Explosive 70 Kinetic 40 Thermal 55 Armor Em 60 Explosive 0 Kinetic 25 Thermal 30 Prereqs Mechanic Level V Science level V Gallente Frigate V Survery level V Destroyers IV Spaceship Command IV Spaceship Command III Archaeology level III Astrometric pinpointing level III Navigation II Digger ship level II Destroyer skill bonus 5% bonus to drone damage and drone durability per level. Digger skill bonus 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring astrometrics per level. Role bonus -50% reduction in analyzer duration. "Hacker" T2 Hacking ship 4/6/4 Rig slots 2 CPU 270 Powergrid 55 Hull Coercer Class. Cargo Capacity 400m3 Drone bay 25m3 Bandwidth 25m3 Max targeting 55km Max velociity 400m/s Shield Em 0 Explosive 70 Kinetic 40 Thermal 20 Armor Em 60 Explosive 30 Kinetic 25 Thermal 35 Prereqs Mechanic Level V Science level V Amarr Frigate V Destroyers IV Spaceship Command IV Spaceship Command III Archaeology level III Astrometric pinpointing level III Hacking level III Navigation II Hacker ship level II Destroyer skill bonus 10% bonus to range of tractor beams. Digger skill bonus 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level. Role bonus -50% reduction in codebreaker duration. "Harvester" T2 Gas cloud harvesting ship 5/5/4 Rig slots 2 CPU 270 Powergrid 55 Hull thrasher Class. Cargo Capacity 1200m3 Max targeting 45km Max velociity 190m/s Shield Em 10 Explosive 60 Kinetic 40 Thermal 20 Armor Em 80 Explosive 10 Kinetic 25 Thermal 35 Prereqs Mining Level V Science level V Minmatar Frigate V Industry level V Destroyers IV Spaceship Command IV Spaceship Command III Gas cloud harvesting level III Navigation II Harvester ship level II Destroyer skill bonus 5% bonus to shield booster amount per level. Harvester skill bonus 5% bonus to thermic shield and armor resists per level. Role bonus 100% bonus to cloud harvester yield
Salpad	Posted - 2007.12.23 22:08:00 - [94] Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale I agree that it would be nice if we could get one ship at least that was specialize for salvaging, but I don't think that a bonus to salvaging is actually the way to go. Salvaging itself goes pretty fast. What you really need is a faster/better way to get to all of those wrecks scattered around. What I'd like to see is something like the Exequror with 5-6 highs and a ship bonus of 20% to tractor beam range per level. Either that or they could just seed medium and large tractor beams already. Yes, salvaging speed and success chance is fine as it is. What's needed is movement speed (to get closer to the wrecks), and tractor beam bonuses, both in terms of pull range (current tractor beams are stuck at 20 km, with no way to get increased range, either through t2 beam modules or tractor beam skills) and (IIRC) a pull speed of 500 m/s. If I had to choose, I'd wish for a bonus to tractor beam range, though. That's the real annoyance.
Kirtana Tawarion	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:51:00 - [95] I've just started into salvaging and quite happy with my Cormorant salvager. The only thing I miss is something like an auto targetter for wrecks for one of those middle slots. Slavaging as it is right now is more finger work than the missions that come before that! :)
Karentaki Gallente federation navy taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:10:00 - [96] Just giving this a friendly bump, as I was about to make a new thread related to this, then I remembered that incredible 'SEARCH' feature Basically, yeah - we need a dedicated salvaging ship, and the natural choice would be a T2 destroyer. - Destroyers are already the most commonly used salvaging ships - Destroyers have the least number of T2 versions of ANY non cap-ship - Destroyers have the best slot layout for a salvaging ship This should would have: Bonuses: 10% per level increase in salvager effectiveness 10% per level increase in cargo space 20% per level increase in tractor beam range 10% per level reduction in salvager/tractor-beam cap use per level Stats (T2 catalyst): Slots - same as T1 destroyer Turret Hardpoints - 4 (nerfed so it isn't used as an uber-frig-killer) Cargo - 1000m3 (huge boost to go inline with the module size nerf) Speed - 300m/s (faster to help salvage larger missions) Capacitor - 500 (boosted slightly to help salvager use) Drone bay - NONE (nerfed - at least until salvager drones are released) Mass - 1,500,000kg (afterburners have more effect) HP - about 70% of normal (means that you can't use them while enemies are around) ======
Arcayan	Posted - 2008.01.17 06:42:00 - [97] I haven't read most of the posts in this thread as most of it appeared to be opininated dribble criticising the previous posters suggestions, but I agree with the concept of a dedicated salvage ship. I believe it should be a Tech II derivative of an existing ship. Though I'd go more for a cruiser class than a destroyer class, simply because if you strip out all of the cruiser class powergrid, processor, shield and armor and fit it with destroyer class equivalents you have the space within the hull to make a large cargo hold plausible. Some it seems have argued that a Tech II would take longer to get for newer players. Tough luck. Destroyers are pretty good at salvaging for new players. A new player can mine asteroids in a frigate and work towards a mining barge, why not the same scenario for salvaging?
Dr Sharp Caldari Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods	Posted - 2008.01.22 18:18:00 - [98] Tech II ship. Take an interdictor and remove any turrets or launchers. Add bonuses to tractors and salvagers And why cant i tractor other peoples wrecks (crim flag me) and why cant I scan for salvage not in deadspace? I don't mind cleaning up the systems, give me the tools and I'll finish the job! __________________ SCUM Lord
Tor Elcadan	Posted - 2008.01.31 19:59:00 - [99] Originally by: Dr Sharp Tech II ship. Take an interdictor and remove any turrets or launchers. Add bonuses to tractors and salvagers And why cant i tractor other peoples wrecks (crim flag me) and why cant I scan for salvage not in deadspace? I don't mind cleaning up the systems, give me the tools and I'll finish the job! Yeah, I like the idea of a T2 Destroyer Salvager/Science Vessel with bonuses to tractor beam range/speed and either a cap usage bonus or better yet a success % boost to salvaging. Possibly make the ship multi-purpose for as a science vessel of some sort (dont have any specifics on the science vessel role). I would really make the Salvaging as a mini-profession much much more interesting viable if it was possible to scan down wreck's not located in deadspace.
Samuel Drake Odumin Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.20 13:22:00 - [100] I think that the Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas and Burst are overdue for a T2 variant. They already have 5% per level cargohold increase... just drop the mining stuff and change it to 10% per level, then give it a marauder-like bonus to speed and range or tractors, reduced cycle time on salvagers, and I'm thinking 4 high slots... maybe 5. Come on... you know you want a T2 Bantam.
Dim Corby Valheru Empire Science and Production Agency	Posted - 2008.03.20 14:43:00 - [101] /not signed Salvaging is a by-product of running missions and seriously running it as a mini-proffesion? 100 million in two week, lol.. plenty of alternatives there as well.. perhaps when you just started that's nice... Back on topic: Plenty of alternatives with current ships for salvaging. Mine: Hurricane (Minmatar BC) 4/4 setup with 2K m3 cargo and never failed to keep up with the missionrunners. I do as Barti says except cleaning his bloody Hulk
KyllSwytch State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.03 11:41:00 - [102] I am not sold on the need for having having a separate salvaging ship with large capacity, and here is the reason: Salvaging is dependent on wrecks. This would mean you would have to: A. Follow someone around salvaging all that they kill B. Finish a mission, and before turn in run a 'salvage' mission, with your salvage fitted ship before you lose the gates. Economically speaking, you simply cannot attain the quality of income that mining can produce, however you can still supplement your income in the early to mid ranged of game with salvaging, and the market will always demand this level of salvage activity. Despite all this, salvaging is generally done mission by mission, and I personally have trouble filling up my salvage hauler, even to the halfway point, cleaning up after myself on the longest of missions. Unless the Salvaging skill in the game takes a turn of evolution where it can maintain its high profitability in the late game environment, a separate ship class would not be needed, even if it is slightly more effective. To be more effective than standard ships rigged for salvaging it would need to implement two factors: 1. A higher yield of components than a standard ship 2. A faster movement speed than standardly rigged ships Speed of harvest for salvaging units is negligable. With a 5-8 turreted rig, one could literally salvage as fast as they could assign targets, and I can't see a dedicated salvage class able to surpass this without some sort of inherent auto wreck-targeting. Also, if the movement speed of a salvage class ship surpassed that of standard rigs, with any reasonable amount of cargo room, it would start to dwarf out industrials. Without fast movement speed, a salvage class ship would be less beneficial. That's pretty much my take on the idea of a salvage class. Now if you want a real idea to improve the art of salvaging, lets get some Salvage Drones out there!
Tchell Dahhn Deny Reality	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:05:00 - [103] You might want to check this thread, all about Salvage Ships.
Anas Damona Splintered Shards of Europe	Posted - 2008.04.05 05:14:00 - [104] First off I would say that the salvaging profession should include looting, not just 'operating the salvager module.' Any dedicated salvage ship should be expected to loot as well as salvage. At the moment we have small tractor beams and salvagers as the only modules that help with loot/salvage, so any ship used for salvage needs many high slots. Destroyers fit the bill, but dedicated salvage ships can totally change the way loot/salvage is done so the current situation should not be used as the basis for ship design. Training destroyers 5 to operate a salvage ship is a bit silly I think. So here's some options. 1. Anyone can train to use salvagers and tractor beams and fit them to whatever ship they like. This is the current situation. 2. The 4 major races can introduce new T1 salvage ships, along the lines of the mining frigates and cruisers. They would have a bonus to tractor beam speed/range or salvager 'efficiency,' possibly a different bonus for each race. 3. An NPC corp could bring out salvage specific ships, like the ORE mining barges. They could operate new modules like a salvager with a base 15km range or a combined looter/salvager module. 4. Tech 2 versions of 2 and 3 could be introduced for 'deep space' operation. They would be able to tank (something like assault ships) or run away (more like interceptors, covert ops or blockade runners). With 4 races and the 'NPC' ships there should be plenty to suit all preferences!
Galroy	Posted - 2008.04.10 07:24:00 - [105] I would just like to say that i am happy with my destroyer for salvaging, 4 x tractor 4 x salvager 3 x cap recharger II Cargo exp But it would be good to have more range... A T2 tractor and a T2 salvager with more range and more speed. A little more cargo space would not go a miss.
Norb Xenthios	Posted - 2008.04.10 13:22:00 - [106] Tractor beam range bonus FTW!!! In battleships I can't stand to salvage I'm so sloooooow. Ya gotta have a second account and wiz around in a destroyer or swap ships and come back. But that eats more of your time. Course CCP doesn't mind us having to use extra accounts to salvage with.
Mik Nostrebor Minmatar Cardinal Foundation	Posted - 2008.05.20 23:17:00 - [107] Before creating a class of ships for salvaging I believe that the requirements for the class should be defined first. Also the possible drawbacks. Requirements: Cargo hold - enough to hold all the loot from the missions the pilot is doing. Possibly different classes of loot ship? Frig/dest/cruiser styled classes? Eg for Level 4's the base cargo should be about 1500m3. Some missions have up to 3000m3 of loot/salv High slots - as many as possible. Does not need more than 3-4 weapon capable slots to allow it to resist random belt rat spawns that show up in missions from time to time. Mid slots - enough to fit MWD and/or AB and possibly an astroid scanner thingy. Lows - depending on cargo bay and ship bonuses. Nice to be able to fit extra expanders Navigation - Needs to be agile for its class and fairly light to maximize turning, start and stop. This should be balanced so as not to make it the new blockade runner. Needs to be fairly quick but not so much as to out run a can when being tractored and a basic AB is on. Energy - sufficient to run a full rack of salv and tractors with spurts of MWD or AB. Note that good fitting/skills should amke it toatlly cap stable. Note: I currently salvage with a Sabre. It has cap to burn fitted with a cap recharger II. Targetting - Should allow max targets of no less than 50% of the high slots. Possibly even allowing for all high slots. Range should be no less than tractor beam range. Speed should be same as other ships in it's class range. Tank - minimal. Much like an industrial classed vessel or even less. See Navigation for the reason. The ship comes with built in nanos and inertial stabs so hull is very light. This ship ought to be a shield tanker. IE a few mids so that there is some protection from belt rats. Drones - none Other uses - Possibly allow it to fit mining lasers but have no role bonuses for fitting them. Limit low slots to inhibit the fitting of MLU's. Role bonuses - tractor range/speed and cargohold capacity seem obvious. Possibly salvage bonus but I believe that the rig slots should be used to augment savlage efficiency. Tech level - I believe the class(es) should be tech I and therefore available to newer pilots. To make it interesting the new ship(s)could be introduced initially as faction vessels (eg Angel Harvestors). Later, in order to get prices down, release a Sisters of Eve (for example) BPO. Sisters of Eve because they are a non-factional corp that exist in all of Empire space. This would also leave room for SoE LP reward tractor beams and salvagers or (gods forbid) cargo expanders... Another possibility is that it could be a Concord designed vessel (cleaning of spaceways project?) with BPO's available from Concord stations. I would suggest the class name for the cruise sized vessels would be 'FireFly class' but I am not sure Joss Wheadon would approve.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.05.21 01:45:00 - [108] A salvage ship without 8 high slots is a bit of a waste. Running level 4 missions, I regularly fill up the hold of my Cormorant destroyer - I handle this by tractoring a jetcan behind me to hold the big stuff, which I then abandon (such as cap booster 800 charges). The only things I've ever thought would make salvaging easier would be increased range on the tractor beams and increased tractor speed. With afterburners on, my Cormorant can outrun the gear being tractored. Perish the thought of salvaging after mission hand-in, running around with an MWD. So for a dedicated salvage ship, I'd want something like a Cormorant or Thrasher, with 8 high slots (but no turret or laucher hard points), about 20-50% more capacitor, double the cargo capacity, 2-4 mid slots (to provide some options), 2-3 low slots, 2 hull upgrade slots, a high native speed, and tractor range/speed bonuses. Industrials start at about 3k cubic metres - having a salvaging ship with 800-1200 cubic metres of hold isn't going to impact on that market. An alternative would be to introduce "medium" (cruiser) sized tractor beams that have, say, 30km range and 700m/s speed. In the meantime, I'll just make do with my salvaging setup of Cormorant (to salvage to hold/jetcan) and Wreathe (to haul the stuff back from the jetcan).
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.18 02:07:00 - [109] After having witnessed the high demand for ships dedicated to salvaging wrecks after combat has taken place, ORE (Or a new corporation) has developed a new line of ships dedicated to just that. Each ship would either be based on a Cruiser or Destroyer sized-hull, but more akin to a Cruiser. The ships would have numerous high slots, and a reasonable amount of medium and low. While it would take another skill (Hence this idea being based off Mining Barges and Exhumers), it would eliminate the need to have different bonuses for each faction, and potentially make either one superior salvaging ship over another, or have them all have flaws that make the line completely worthless, or have them each be the exact same ship, just with different skins. Imagine a Tech II Amarr and Minmatar ship given completely different bonuses to salvaging that, in the end, would have been far superior if they were on the same ship, rather than having two sub-par ships just because these two factions needed salvaging ships. Having it with a side-line faction eliminates this potential disaster. This would allow CCP to give good bonuses to a single line of ships that should be relatively easy to get, such as requiring only Salvaging 3 or 4, Spaceship Command 3 or 4, and perhaps something else, or perhaps not. Potential bonuses may include: 25% increased tractor beam range and 5% increase in salvage chance. 20% increased tractor beam velocity and 5% increase in cargo hold per level. Take the idea or leave it, but I think of all the current ideas, making one of these side-line corporations make these type of ships would be far easier than having to design a unique ship for each empire faction, when such would simply over-complicate things.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.06.18 02:15:00 - [110] Too many freakin' pages to sort through, so I'll just risk that it's been mentioned already. What about "Marauders"? They're an advanced BS, with plenty of High slots for tractors and salvagers. And they each get a 100% boost to tractor range and velocity. If everyone is suggesting new ships with a whole array of training before their usable, why not just train up to Marauders and use those?
Valen Drax Amarr Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:09:00 - [111] Salvage ship: A ship people call in to clean up their messes. This includes looting everything you can sell or refine. And the use of salvage mods to reduce wreckage to spare parts. Why did I say the above? Because any salvage ship needs to consider both speed and capacity. Armor and shields are never really an issue since their are people killing things in front of you. And probably your coming in after the battle and the place is clear of baddies any way. But picking up all those bits and bobs even strains my little catalysts triple expanded hold (825 m3). So as a salvager for my corp, what do I want in a ship and what would I consider to be good at each stage. Well here you go! Rookie Salvager: A destroyer is good enough. You have skills to train, and this will help to bring in the cash. Eventually you will grow out of it and look for something better. But this is the no frills practice ship. Experienced Salvager: Preferably a T1 ship that is specialized. Eight high slots, with no hard points, and some token Mid and Lows for covering specific needs. The big deal here is Cargo capacity and salvage related bonuses. Carcapacity should be 600-750m3, you sill need expanders, but you can carry more with those same expanders. The boosts on the other hand would be mainly to Tractor range and speed. In most cases the tractor beams become the bottleneck. For the T1 I would look to a +10 to +20% boost to tractor range per skill rank. And a +10% boost to the tractor beams drag speed and bamo, more efficient tractors for faster salvaging. Veteran Salvager You have been salvaging for a while, you have those mad skills. So where to go? This is the place for tech 2. The Tech Two salvager is much the same as it's T1 counterpart. But this ship has more cargo capacity, 1000m3, and additional skill based bonuses increasing salvager range bonuses and salvaged chance boosts. This ship is for those that like to o the work, no others need apply. Now people have found issue with the idea of speed being equal to capacity. Well Speed has nothing to do with a ships capacity. Speed has to do with a ships MASS, and the ships engines. As long as a salvager is light, then their is little issue with a destroyer size ship holding 1200m3 before expanders. I mean heck, I bet if you state that the space comes from say the removal of all the hard points, heavy power relays, and all that extra junk...who would care. "Any body who is interesting is mad, In some way or another anyway." Dr. Who
OneT The Whanau	Posted - 2008.07.15 04:43:00 - [112] i use a Eris (gallente interdicter) high's salvagers and tractors mid's cant remember but know it has a afterburner in there somewhere lows t2 cargo expanders rigs cargo expander ones does the job perfect 800m/s with just over a 1300m3 cargo hold rediculously expensive for the job tho
Chillshock	Posted - 2008.07.15 07:53:00 - [113] Originally by: OneT rediculously expensive for the job tho I use a golem. 4 Beams, 3 Salvager, cap recharger, MWD, cargo expander, salvage tackle. THAT ist ridiculously expensive, but it saves so much time...
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.15 11:22:00 - [114] Coercer (Amarr Destroyer) 4 tractor beams 4 salvagers 10mn AB to get up to 600m/s+ 4 T2 expanders (gives 700m3+) 3 salvage rigs My guess is that it seems to fill the role of a salvage vessel quite nicely. Only in large missions like "The Blockade" do I run out of cargo space but in 90% of cases, it will take the lot in one go. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Nofonno Amarr Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.07.15 13:07:00 - [115] I took the time and effort to read through all the ideas (and personal attacks and hair-splitting, too). I agree with the players that have found a way to fit and effectively use the current ship designs to do their job (I personaly use a Sigil... I know, I know... but I'm a patient person ) However, I'd really like to see a special ship too, a kind of a smallish industrial, T1, with 3/3/4 or something, and a sizeable cargo bay (say, 1,000 m3). And speaking of a special ship, we could have a "strip salvager" Fitable only to the salvage ship and getting much more metal scraps (which may wary and produce several minerals after reprocessing)... or possibly the drone alloys. --- A scientist must be an optimist at heart - to have the strength to rally against a chorus of voices saying "it cannot be done".
OneT The Whanau	Posted - 2008.07.16 06:55:00 - [116] Originally by: Chillshock Originally by: OneT rediculously expensive for the job tho I use a golem. 4 Beams, 3 Salvager, cap recharger, MWD, cargo expander, salvage tackle. THAT ist ridiculously expensive, but it saves so much time... yea that was b4 i got my golem now i tend to just salvage as i goin the BS wot else are the 3 spare highs for. also in reponse to nofonno yep if it had the maruader tracter beam bonus and some sort of special long range salvager or more salvage bonus or special module it would b usefull. also alot less skill requirements than mine or chillshocks solution so newbs can follow round there higher skilled corp mates and salvage
Keith F Caldari United Society Starfleet	Posted - 2008.07.22 11:59:00 - [117] i would like to see a mid slot item that gives a speed bonus to tractor and salvage rig bonus% and cargo space% increase but only fitted to a dedicated salvager ship i run a alt with 5 tractors and 3 salvagers and rigs/implants with 60% success rate But find that if i go to fast i cant get the wrecks to the ship if i travel over 500ms cargo space could be better , thats why 5 tractors, so i can tow a can behind me as i get to full.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.25 13:37:00 - [118] A salvage ship ... built off the principle of the logistics ships, whereas it has no weapon slots, is roughly cruiser or destroyer sized, and it can run one helluva tank as well as cargo-hold boosting modules. Again, not a combat ship at all, but completely devoted to salvaging. Bonuses would be to salvaging amount and tractor beam range. Possibly make the ship an ORE ship or something. Genesis Project
Keith F Caldari United Society Starfleet	Posted - 2008.08.12 06:06:00 - [119] and maybe scipts to add to tractors that allow auto load into your hold of certain loot or all loot (and as you can only tractor your loot no problem), and even scripts for salvagers for range etc
Tim Idaho	Posted - 2008.11.01 05:00:00 - [120] IMHO, the Catalyst is currently the best salvager out there. My setup: 4x salvagers, 4x tractors 1x AB, 1x Cap Recharger II 3x Cargo Expanders II 1x salvage tackle rig, 1x cargohold expansion rig However, that's not to say it couldn't be improved. Personally I think that once you get into the Battlecruiser class and upwards, the destroyers are specialised salvagers, however there is a distinct lack of a T2 destroyer out there. There have been many ideas put forth on this topic, but what about a T2 destroyer class salvager? The standard destroyer has a 50% range bonus on guns, why not on the T2 destroyer extend that to tractor beams and salvagers? Expand the base cargo bay a bit, leave all the other slots as is, (perhaps drop a rig slot for consistency) and you're right to go.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.01 05:23:00 - [121] Don't like the OP's idea unless you can tractor anyone's wreck. Salvaging should be expanded as a profession, but not a "Hey, I just got done ratting/plexing/missioning, let me collect my extra loot". A specialized salvage ship should be an agile frigate variant with maybe 4 highs and a boost to salvage chance. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2008.11.01 07:12:00 - [122] T3 Industrial maybe? I would like an 8 high setup. Less highs is for people hijacking mission wrecks. 8 highs is for people salvaging their own mission. T2 Tractors that pull faster (could keep up with a MWD) would be nice.
Jinserai	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:52:00 - [123] Okay, so I've skimmed through all 5 pages, and didn't see this anywhere, so here goes: The idea of a "Strip salvager" was cool, but producing more material from the same source has balancing issues I would imagine. Instead, have a salvager with a slower cycle time, heftier fitting requirements, and (here's where I get shot) a 1.5k radius AOE. Potential problems: -Running out of cargo space when you have a ton of wrecks around you. Solution: Extra materials are simply lost. Tough. Make sure you have room next time before you tractor 50 wrecks to the same place. -Stealing other peoples wrecks in high spawn rate areas. Solution: Tough. Watch wtf you're doing, or get used to people being ****ed at you. This would also allow for interesting dynamics with salvaging teams. Have a hauler variant that allows for the fitting of one or 2 of these AOE salvagers. Then you have a destroyer fitted for speed with 8 souped up tractors dragging all of the wrecks back into the salvage zone. For some of the higher level missions with wave after wave of ships, salvage teams would be a great way to pull in rookie pilots to get involved, but still have them work together (even if in a small way). Just a random thought.
Maximus Veridia Minmatar Deathguard Legion United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.01.23 07:04:00 - [124] I'm still waiting for my salvage drones. I think that solves a bunch of issues. you can have 5 drones, that go and salvage wrecks, if you want the mods and other cargo stuff, haul it in with tractors. I know this was on the board, and they even have a skill book out there for it. So what about it CCP?
Caassimolar	Posted - 2009.01.23 15:16:00 - [125] lol range bonus = more salvage thieves EVERYWHERE
Sagacious Z Minmatar Eve University	Posted - 2009.01.25 02:35:00 - [126] Edited by: Sagacious Z on 25/01/2009 02:36:08 There already is such a ship--it is called a destroyer. Why must every ship have a "bonus" to a specific role? Why not just use what is given to us already and create your own role specific ships? Why must many of you wish for changes like you are going to play solo? The "the ship must have 'X' number of high slots for weapons and 'X' number of high slots for tractor beams and 'X' number of high slots for salvagers and 'X' amount of grid and 'X' amount of CPU . . . this is flat out crazy as it takes away tactics and decision making, and takes away the need for a diversity of ships. Why not have just one ship only in EVE that does it all? Is that what you want? There are usually 25,000 to 40,000 or more signed on at any one time? Are you telling me that not one other player in EVE can be approached to provide fighter escort for you while you salvage, or for you to provide hired gun protection services for somebody else who is salvaging? If players want to be solo and so demand a "do it all solo ship", why don't you just go play a game that is you versus the PC and its AI? Why in the world do you play a multi-player game, yet desire all your ships to be solo only in capability? Have you ever thought that the whole idea of EVE from a game designer standpoint is to encourage player interaction? Don't you think that is a key reason why the ships have different capabilities? Why is it that people like you keep requesting that the game design be geared toward solo players? You really need to explain why you want to play solo (or at least, request ship design be geared for solo players), yet you play a game that is a multi-player game designed for player interaction, thus ship diversity.
Navarre Fuego	Posted - 2009.04.14 13:42:00 - [127] I like this idea, and have included it in my ideas about dedicated Science vessels, as the first step on the rung. See my thread here...
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.04.15 04:44:00 - [128] I like the idea of having a specific ship for salvage with a large cargohold and a bonus to salvage retrieval chance. It should also have a special module which only the Salvage class ship could use, the 'Tractor Net' which would haul/hold all the wrecks placed in it by a Tractor beam. The skill's required to use the salvage ship could include: Primary skills: Industrial 5 Spaceship Command 5 Salvaging 5 Survey 5 Tractoring 5 Secondary skills: All required skills needed for the above skills as well as the required skills for the module's used. The required skills for the 'Tractor Net' module would be all of the required primary skills for the Salvage Ship and can only be fitted on the Salvage Ship. This is just an example and something to think about. Salvage is a big legitimate Industry in the real world and using Destroyer class ships for salvage just doesn't seem right. Destroyers are meant to counter and attack Frigates
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:27:00 - [129] We do not need a ship for every purpose you can possibly think up! /thread And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:30:00 - [130] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom We do not need a ship for every purpose you can possibly think up! /thread We do not need a pointless post for every thread that you can possibly reply to! /continue discussion
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:31:00 - [131] Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom We do not need a ship for every purpose you can possibly think up! /thread We do not need a pointless post for every thread that you can possibly reply to! /continue discussion The ships in EVE all have a versatility to them (less so with t2 ships because theyre intentionally niche), so this would have to be t2 and would serve no purpose outside of missions. And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:32:00 - [132] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom We do not need a ship for every purpose you can possibly think up! /thread We do not need a pointless post for every thread that you can possibly reply to! /continue discussion The ships in EVE all have a versatility to them (less so with t2 ships because theyre intentionally niche), so this would have to be t2 and would serve no purpose outside of missions. And why does that matter to you? Does this really effect the way you play the game so drastically that it would cause you to cancel your subscription because they would add a ship that you may never actually fly, but countless others would? If Tech II ships fit intentionally into their own niche, then why leave this niche vacant?
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:34:00 - [133] Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 15/04/2009 05:35:06 Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 15/04/2009 05:34:44 Originally by: Uglok And why does that matter to you? Does this really effect the way you play the game so drastically that it would cause you to cancel your subscription because they would add a ship that you may never actually fly, but countless others would? If Tech II ships fit intentionally into their own niche, then why leave this niche vacant? Because it doesnt need to filled! you can turn any ship you want into a salvager, even frigs and interceptors are used as salvagers. it would be REDUNDANT. And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:41:00 - [134] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Because it doesnt need to filled! you can turn any ship you want into a salvager, even frigs and interceptors are used as salvagers. it would be REDUNDANT. An Assault Ship is redundant. A Heavy Assault Ship is redundant. An Electronic Attack Ship is redundant. An Exhumer is redundant. A Heavy Interdictor is redundant. An Interceptor is redundant. Mining Barges are redundant. Hell, most of Tech II ships would be redundant using your logic, since the Tech I version can easily be fitted for many of these roles. Any frigate can fit weapons, electronic warfare equipment, or web/scramble modules. Any frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser, battleship, etc can outfit mining lasers. Mining barges are redundant. A Command Ship is redundant because a Mothership can do the same job as one, but does it better due to it's logistical abilities. Despite not being allowed in High-sec, it can still do the same thing, so using your logic it's still redundant and unnecessary. Your posts on this forum all say the same thing, though using different words to express their meaningless point. They're all redundant, so do us a favor and stop.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:45:00 - [135] Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Because it doesnt need to filled! you can turn any ship you want into a salvager, even frigs and interceptors are used as salvagers. it would be REDUNDANT. An Assault Ship is redundant. A Heavy Assault Ship is redundant. An Electronic Attack Ship is redundant. An Exhumer is redundant. A Heavy Interdictor is redundant. An Interceptor is redundant. Mining Barges are redundant. Hell, most of Tech II ships would be redundant using your logic, since the Tech I version can easily be fitted for many of these roles. Any frigate can fit weapons, electronic warfare equipment, or web/scramble modules. Any frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser, battleship, etc can outfit mining lasers. Mining barges are redundant. A Command Ship is redundant because a Mothership can do the same job as one, but does it better due to it's logistical abilities. Despite not being allowed in High-sec, it can still do the same thing, so using your logic it's still redundant and unnecessary. Your posts on this forum all say the same thing, though using different words to express their meaningless point. They're all redundant, so do us a favor and stop. You dont play much do you? 1. HACs are like battlecruisers with better range and are more maneuverable (same with AFs and cruisers) /niche 2. EAF/recons fill purposes their t1 counterparts dont (see: all of the recons) 3. mining is boring i dont even care 4. CSs get a 15% bonus to warlinks (of a certain type), and are smaller and more useful more often. And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:51:00 - [136] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom You dont play much do you? 1. HACs are like battlecruisers with better range and are more maneuverable (same with AFs and cruisers) /niche 2. EAF/recons fill purposes their t1 counterparts dont (see: all of the recons) 3. mining is boring i dont even care 4. CSs get a 15% bonus to warlinks (of a certain type), and are smaller and more useful more often. Lets see. 1. A normal Cruiser can still do most everything a HAC can do, aside the additional damage. In essence, a HAC is just an upgraded Cruiser. Why is it necessary? It's redundant. We already have Cruisers. Same goes for Assault Ships. 2. Each faction has a single Tech I frigate that is dedicated to EWAR, and I believe they all have Cruisers as well. The Tech II variants make these bonuses stronger, but still the bonuses already exist to begin with. Redundant. 3. Why should something you don't care about not be worthy of your attention? Other people enjoy it. What makes you so special? 4. "More useful more often" is objective. Their only real usefulness in high sec is for missions. In low-sec anywhere they can get to, a Mothership can get to, and it's bonuses are superior. Though it may be larger, it makes a Commandship's bonuses redundant. 5. Come up with better arguments. I'm getting bored.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 05:56:00 - [137] Originally by: Uglok Lets see. 1. A normal Cruiser can still do most everything a HAC can do, aside the additional damage. In essence, a HAC is just an upgraded Cruiser. Why is it necessary? It's redundant. We already have Cruisers. Same goes for Assault Ships. 2. Each faction has a single Tech I frigate that is dedicated to EWAR, and I believe they all have Cruisers as well. The Tech II variants make these bonuses stronger, but still the bonuses already exist to begin with. Redundant. 3. Why should something you don't care about not be worthy of your attention? Other people enjoy it. What makes you so special? 4. "More useful more often" is objective. Their only real usefulness in high sec is for missions. In low-sec anywhere they can get to, a Mothership can get to, and it's bonuses are superior. Though it may be larger, it makes a Commandship's bonuses redundant. 5. Come up with better arguments. I'm getting bored. no. a cruiser is nowhere near what a HAC is. t2 expands upon the t1 bonuses making them much more useful. I was just saying. Please, please! go to low sec! learn before you speak!(also moms are almost never used over a CS) And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:05:00 - [138] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom no. a cruiser is nowhere near what a HAC is. t2 expands upon the t1 bonuses making them much more useful. I was just saying. Please, please! go to low sec! learn before you speak!(also moms are almost never used over a CS) And another ship would never be used over a salvage dedicated ship either. Whats your point?
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:08:00 - [139] Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom no. a cruiser is nowhere near what a HAC is. t2 expands upon the t1 bonuses making them much more useful. I was just saying. Please, please! go to low sec! learn before you speak!(also moms are almost never used over a CS) And another ship would never be used over a salvage dedicated ship either. Whats your point? why do we need one? And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:11:00 - [140] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom why do we need one? Supply and demand. The demand is in the market. Why did we need a HAC? Just so Cruisers can pew pew for more damage?
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:14:00 - [141] Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom why do we need one? Supply and demand. The demand is in the market. Why did we need a HAC? Just so Cruisers can pew pew for more damage? I would never buy a 50mil ship just to salvage my wrecks, learn to pvp and stop sayin stupid ****. And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:27:00 - [142] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom I would never buy a 50mil ship just to salvage my wrecks, learn to pvp and stop sayin stupid **. I don't see the title of this game as "AtheistOfDoom-Online", do you? Out of 250 thousand players, do you really matter? Not overly. Why should ANYONE care what you would or wouldn't buy? Other people WOULD buy it, because they'd like to have one to make salvaging easier. It doesn't matter how long it would take for the investment to give a return. That's not up for debate. The ship itself is. If you're going to continue being an *****, then just stop while you're ahead. This isn't High School, so please grow up and act your age. Unless you're in High School, then go do your homework and get to bed while the rest of us enjoy a game.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:28:00 - [143] Originally by: Uglok Originally by: AtheistOfDoom I would never buy a 50mil ship just to salvage my wrecks, learn to pvp and stop sayin stupid **. I don't see the title of this game as "AtheistOfDoom-Online", do you? Out of 250 thousand players, do you really matter? Not overly. Why should ANYONE care what you would or wouldn't buy? Other people WOULD buy it, because they'd like to have one to make salvaging easier. It doesn't matter how long it would take for the investment to give a return. That's not up for debate. The ship itself is. If you're going to continue being an *****, then just stop while you're ahead. This isn't High School, so please grow up and act your age. Unless you're in High School, then go do your homework and get to bed while the rest of us enjoy a game. ROFL. And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:31:00 - [144] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Originally by: Uglok I don't see the title of this game as "AtheistOfDoom-Online", do you? Out of 250 thousand players, do you really matter? Not overly. Why should ANYONE care what you would or wouldn't buy? Other people WOULD buy it, because they'd like to have one to make salvaging easier. It doesn't matter how long it would take for the investment to give a return. That's not up for debate. The ship itself is. If you're going to continue being an *******, then just stop while you're ahead. This isn't High School, so please grow up and act your age. Unless you're in High School, then go do your homework and get to bed while the rest of us enjoy a game. ROFL. I can respond like a child too. ROFFLE.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:34:00 - [145] Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 15/04/2009 06:34:30 Originally by: Uglok I can respond like a child too. ROFFLE. We're all very amazed now go back to your crib and stop internet-stalking me. kthnxbye And then, he killed the dog...
Uglok	Posted - 2009.04.15 06:39:00 - [146] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 15/04/2009 06:34:30 Originally by: Uglok I can respond like a child too. ROFFLE. We're all very amazed now go back to your crib and stop internet-stalking me. kthnxbye Oh wow, that was a MAJOR burn right there. I can feel it engulfing my spirit to the very core. Your pathetic insults are just as pointless as your posts themselves. If you want to attempt to troll a thread, do so at least with style. Don't be a witless twit about it.
NightF0x Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists	Posted - 2009.04.15 11:04:00 - [147] will you 2 knock it off. A destroyer is already the near-perfect salvager. 8 highs and plenty of mids to stack full of cap rechargers or injectors. if anything just add bonuses to tractor range and salvager module speed. ------------------------------------
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.04.15 22:45:00 - [148] Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 15/04/2009 06:34:30 Originally by: Uglok I can respond like a child too. ROFFLE. We're all very amazed now go back to your crib and stop internet-stalking me. kthnxbye I think you're in the wrong thread and need to have your eyes checked, might think about getting some reading glasses. Try following your own advice, go to low sec and create your own anti-everything thread. As I said before, Destroyer class ship is supposed to be used to counter/attack frigates, it doesn't have a bonus to salvage nor is it intended to be used as a salvage ship even though a lot of you people use it for that. A specific ship created to do salvage could be used for more that just mission clean up, it could also be used in Fleet wars or used where any large scale encounter has occurred. Players with a ship designed exclusively for salvage could also create another type of business service which both PvP and PvE players could use. Think of it like this, you can load up a car and take some trash to the Dump/Landfill or you can load up a truck and take all of it at once. Bottom line, the majority of players would rather have a truck (specific ship built for salvage) instead of having to use the car (Destroyer's).
Ubiquitous Newt	Posted - 2009.06.23 21:02:00 - [149] Originally by: Riley Craven Wow, your arguement just proves why a speciality ship is needed. You've spent close to 100mil in fittings for a ship that cost 1mil to do your job well. Bravo.[/quote If you consider how much fricking ISK a dedicated salvager makes It's questionable just how unreasonable the cost would be, even if one had to outfit a cat with all this T2 junk, which one does not. I'll be the first to admit that their cargo sucks; on a big mission, I've had to make 3-4 trips to a station to unload. But then, I also made roughly 10-20x what the actual mission rewards were, so one can make the argument that salvaging is too easy as it is.
Photus Caldari Roll For Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.23 21:43:00 - [150] I use a Hurricane; 8 highs, lows filled with CE2, MWD and an AB in the mids. It only has one role, but it handles it incredibly well and is armored enough to deal with the occasional camp and/or NPC. It can typically salvage as fast or faster than my missioning ship can kill 'em. This is typically why I don't think salvage ninjas are a problem; I'm salvaging and looting at the same rate as I'm killing! Instead of going on and on about making a new ship class, why not make a new module type (increase chance of salvage and/or tractor beam range/velocity for group) or implant? If I'm running through space in my Hurricane, people don't immediately think "Hey, I'll bet he ONLY has salvagers and tractors in his highs! Let's go gank a BC." If I was doing the same thing in my "salvage ship", it'd probably be a different story. There are better ways to get bonuses to salvaging than to create a whole new class of ship. It just goes to show you that you shouldn't kneel down in front of the third rail, grab it with both hands, and **** on it from three feet away.

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