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Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:14:00 -
[1]
Just a general question not directed at anyone alliance in paticular.
Just how much space is really needed for say an alliance of 800 or so?
Yah Yah I know the general smack answer is "all of it" or something simular.
But really in my eve career I have been in 3 alliances. 1 that had a small amount of space but always seemed sufficent most of the time. 1 that seemed that it spanned all over the frickin place but always seemed 90% of it was empty and one that generally seemed about right I guess.
But in general it always seems if you fly around .0 just about anywhere 99% of it is empty cept for home systems and maybe 2 jumps surrounding them.
Why is it then that it seems most alliances will put up an outpost then put up the next 5 10 jumps away and next 5 10 jumps away and so on?
It seems this would be alot more difficult to defend logistics and whatnot.
Is it cause each alliance member needs or thinks they need a system of their very own for ratting 24/7? I know it isn't cause of mining. I mined a good amount in .0 and besides the new drone regions have yet to see one mined out (and no I aint talkin of veld) aknor in the systems it spawns never seen mined out.
Is it just for something to do? Maybe going for choke points?
Without really trying to single out any alliance looking at say bobs space and what was lv's space and now goons/ra's space. It spans so much I dont get the purpose in trying to control it?
Just currious what the view points on it are.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
RaBbLe66
Amarr
Amarr Dissidents Club
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:17:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
It spans so much I dont get the purpose in trying to control it?
For many people this is not about controlling space, a lot of the folks fighting BoB and its allies/friends/Pets are doing so for different reasons that I cant tell you because the forum police will *Snip it*
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Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:21:00 -
[3]
sorry I should have left the names bob lv goon out of it. they really have nothing to do with what I am asking nothing more than an example.
I could go in the past and name more than a few alliances that have controled vast spaces or tried to anyway. Some for long periods of time some for short.
using the current names was nothing more than a current example.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
RaBbLe66
Amarr
Amarr Dissidents Club
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:25:00 -
[4]
Fair enough..
largely to control more space gives access to more complexes, high end minerals, making those areas attractive to "rent" out to smaller corps /alliances.
This gives the parent alliance a large income with very little effort, more attractive space you control, more renters , more income, better ability to buy/build capital ships = ability to control more space = More renters.
Failing to grow as big and as rich as your rivals is a recipe for your space becoming their space
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Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:25:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Amerame on 20/03/2007 17:21:56
Really depends what kind of players. If your alliance is made of 800 hardcore hardened pvpers you'll want several regions. If your alliance is 800 "average" players, a constellation with a station can be enough to have fun.
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Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:31:00 -
[6]
hmm seems would technically be the opposite really but thats my opinion.
seems if you had 800 hard core pvpers they would need only a small space to live in. then ur enemies are nice and close with the ability to keep the pvper's interested with raiding parties ect.
with average players a large open space that gives alot of ratting mining ect would be preferable.
Now the renting thing I guess I can understand that makes sence.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2007.03.20 17:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Victor Vision on 20/03/2007 17:38:51
Depends on the alliance.
In general I think it is best to start with a small area that has as few access points as possible, so it will be easy to defend.
You will know when the space gets too tight, people will be complaining.
When this happens it is time to expand bit by bit, or move to a new region if the old one is not fit for expansion for whatever reasons.
EVE War I - Quick Overview
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:23:00 -
[8]
Depends too how good of space it is, and how much ISK each member needs a week.
If the system makes 10 bil isk a week (say the top ores + ratting 24/7), and the average member only needs 100 mil a week to live.. 1 system can support 100 people.
If the system makes less or the members need more, obviously things change.
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Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:42:00 -
[9]
Go for quality, not quantity. How much space depends on how active your members are, what activities they like to do, and how what they need to 'hold' to keep the space.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:43:00 -
[10]
that statement kinda confuses me really.
I wasn't aware that a system make isk? but how the people use it.
I mean a hard core ratter (of witch I am not lol) can make some good isk simply cause of the time they spend ratting. Same with miners. although I realize that different ores obviously make different profits.
As far as a complex well yah I understand that it's fairly self explanitory.
Personally I always actually made more isk in empire trading than I ever did in .0. (although .0 is more fun)
I can also see i guess a bunch of hard core ratters needing a fairly large amount of space though I also see the same group typically having a hard time holding on to it.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Karrimdra
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:13:00 -
[11]
IMO ther only region for having more space than you can theoretically use is for the epeen on the forums.
One alliance of about 1000 members needs nothing more than one good constellation, as long as your not of the thought npcing "i need one system of 12+ belts with -1.0 sec status to npc properly". Dont care how good an npc'er is he needs no more than 6-8 belts once you set chains up properly. oh or kill continuously to lure out the officers as is the other 'theory'. (not the place for that disucssion before it gets started).
Simple answer, 1 constellation per 500-800 members is my opinion ;)
From nothing to something in just one corp!
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gazarsgo
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.03.20 20:24:00 -
[12]
i've seen a lot of mined out systems in 0.0... they all had outposts in them though :) unless you're counting the veldspar or something??
as far as ratting goes, less than -0.3 truesec or so isn't worth warping to a belt, and anything less than -0.6 or so is really a pain to get a good chain spawned in, while -0.7 and better are really effortless for 'good' ratting...
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Blitz'Krieg
Caldari
SkyMarshal Logistics
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Posted - 2007.03.20 21:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Just a general question not directed at anyone alliance in paticular.
Just how much space is really needed for say an alliance of 800 or so?
Yah Yah I know the general smack answer is "all of it" or something simular.
But really in my eve career I have been in 3 alliances. 1 that had a small amount of space but always seemed sufficent most of the time. 1 that seemed that it spanned all over the frickin place but always seemed 90% of it was empty and one that generally seemed about right I guess.
But in general it always seems if you fly around .0 just about anywhere 99% of it is empty cept for home systems and maybe 2 jumps surrounding them.
Why is it then that it seems most alliances will put up an outpost then put up the next 5 10 jumps away and next 5 10 jumps away and so on?
It seems this would be alot more difficult to defend logistics and whatnot.
Is it cause each alliance member needs or thinks they need a system of their very own for ratting 24/7? I know it isn't cause of mining. I mined a good amount in .0 and besides the new drone regions have yet to see one mined out (and no I aint talkin of veld) aknor in the systems it spawns never seen mined out.
Is it just for something to do? Maybe going for choke points?
Without really trying to single out any alliance looking at say bobs space and what was lv's space and now goons/ra's space. It spans so much I dont get the purpose in trying to control it?
Just currious what the view points on it are.
IMO if it was my alliance i would go as small as possible. Place your stations at the gateways and that way you will always have a military presence. Theoretically your miners in the middle will have a ready made early warning system.
The trouble with taking lots of space is that other people might want to take it from you, and while pvp is fun, its not always profitable.
Better a small area of space you can defend than loads you cant.
IMO any alliance should have half its members working on logistics and half the logistics located in empire if they want to survive, because without your backup your not keeping any space. Like i said, IMO.
One of the most imortant things as well is to find an alliance that either matches your timezones if you are both euro and us, or that is the other timezone your not. If not your as good as dead to the right people.
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Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:11:00 -
[14]
Not a lot in fact. Frege Alliance which is quite populated actually control a few constellation only with one outpost and there as been for the moment not a lot of problem by having that much people in a such small area. At least for belt rat and mining you dont need a lot of space.
----
Quote:
Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:19:00 -
[15]
Space is as space does. For a start, 0.0 really isn't as "big" as all that- if you actually look, only about 10% of 0.0 systems are actually worth owning, so when you see an alliance "owning" a hole region, there might only be 10 or 15 places worth using in that whole area.
Secondly, owning space is sort of.......like scoring points. If Goons, say, were to conquer a BoB system, they COULD just say "we own that system now, so its ours". Or they COULD say "we own that system, and all the space between it and our next station is ours too".
Anyhow, for getting your own space, there are only really three options.
1) You take some by force from someone who already owns it.
2) You pay someone else rental to set up in their space.
3) You make good friends with some people and persuade them to invite you to fill some of their empty space. Now you may scoff, but its how a lot of alliances first got started- nothing reeks of a defensive hole more than a big bit of unused space, a lot of big players would do anything to fill it with some trusted and able friends.
Anyhow, pick which one suits you best, and see what there is up for grabs. Whether you find yourself operating out of a handful of systems or a whole region is likely going to be dictated entirely by whats available.
And incidentally, nows probably a golden opportunity for getting new space. What with the war on, theres suddenly a lot of space changing hands, one way or another, thats going to need filling. Take it, Buy it or Be Given it, nows your chance 
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:45:00 -
[16]
Well out of 800 members:
a) Half will be alts, as almost everyone runs 2 characters these days
b) Half of the remainder will be "casual" players that don't long in every day or for more than an hour or so
c) Timezones will spread your coverage
So, over a 24 hour period, I'd say you will peak at around 100 "real" members online, depending on your TZ concentration, maybe 200.
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Esurnir
Amarr
Bears Inc
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:37:00 -
[17]
Make that 50 I think.
----
Quote:
Thou shall pew pew.
Book of Revelation 12, 51 |
Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:46:00 -
[18]
well look at it this way if u see empty space and can get a large enough group together go and use that empty space theres lots of empty systems that overly large alliances dont use and if u can sneak in and out with minimal losses make use of cloakers etc.
Said alliances will either hunt u ( good PVP Practice) or they will ignore u or they may offer u a place for a fee. If the fee is to much say no not interested and keep using their space barring that take up the offer for rental if its their secure space and the terms are reasonable and perhaps outpost access then u should be ok
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Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.04.04 02:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Esurnir
Make that 50 I think.
50 sounds more reasonable.
We're an alliance of 170ish "players"
10-15 are logged in at peak times 
Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Proud member of the Customer Service Coalition. |
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