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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 13:26:00 -
[1]
To be honest, I was pretty skeptical about it, I mean I've used TS or Ventrilo for tons of different MMOs. They're definitely not perfect, but they get the job done overall.
Then I went to Fanfest, and heard about the possibilities the Vivox solution offers.
My biggest issue was that CCP was just going to toss in a VOIP feature adding no value, for a few extra bucks a month from people. But the possibilities for integration into EVE are quite astonishing. I don't know many who weren't impressed who were there. Would all of those possibilities be here during the first implementation? It was basically stated that the feature set supported would be up to CCP, and if they include basic stuff to start and add more robust features later when things have settled then that's fine by me.
Thing is, there's a lot this can offer that TS and Ventrilo cannot. We may not be seeing it right now (and may not for a while, or even ever in the case of some things), but the possibilities are quite intriguing.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 13:39:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Baleorg
Originally by: Harisdrop
What happens if you have two accounts. Does this VIVOX subscription work for both?
does your creditcard subscription work for both accounts?
no... of course not... each account has its own subscription, silly :-P
The question was asked at Fanfest last year, whether a single sub would cover multiple accounts. The answer from the Vivox fella was basically, if that's how CCP wants it to be handled then that's what will happen. :)
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:16:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Winterblink on 21/03/2007 14:13:36
Originally by: Soulita
I have said it before and will say it again. By splitting the community, as it is doing the way it is introduced, it is an anti-social feature and has no place in an mmorpg.
So you're basically against the disparity between the haves and have-nots, not against the feature itself or the additional charges for it, if I'm reading your entire post right.
Personally I don't agree with your labeling of the feature as "antisocial", but I can understand where you're coming from.
Edit: Oh, and EVE Online is not technically a MMORPG. But that's a whole other discussion. :)
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Soulita
The problem with the feature is, it is in effect an add on that costs RL extra money. Splitting the community and breaking CCPs promise not to charge extra for add ons.
CCP's "promise" was not to charge extra for expansion content. You don't NEED this to play EVE, not having it won't keep you from flying to any place you want, or getting access to new ships and gear. The Voice stuff is not new complexes, new NPCs, new deployable gear for POSes, or anything like that.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gaia Thorn
o yeah forgot.
What happend to all eve exspansions are FREE ??
Seeing that this is a exspansion to the game ccp is sorta breking their biggest selling point.
For me this is a slippery slope when introducing "premium" features to the game.
This could lead to us paying for expansions and hell even ships and mods if you want to make it extreme.
T1 = start stuff
T2 = better T1 stuff
T3 = solo pwn mobile stuff for RL cash
Just to comment on that slippery slope, if people would just quit proving to the gaming industry time and time again that they're willing to pay real life money for in-game gear and money, maybe we wouldn't see official attempts to get in on the action (ex. Everquest2's Marketplace).
I'm of course not suggesting that's what CCP's trying to do here. :)
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Soulita
This is not entirely correct. If a corp of your friends for example turns "Voip only", and you dont have it, then in effect you wont be able to effectively fly complexes, hunt new npcs etc etc with them.
There is a difference between primary directly visible effects, and those that are more indirect but still true and just as important.
TS and Ventrilo do that right now when it comes to fleet combat.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Soulita
Somehow yes, but there is a difference.
Alliances or corps using Vent or TS can invite you to fly with them. They just give you a guest access to their TS or Vent. This will cost you nothing. Look at Burn Edens downtime TS for example. Unlike vivox this has a community combining effect, not a splitting one like vivox.
If you want to fly with a corp or alliance that uses vivox you would have to subscribe to vivox and pay for it. Fairly big difference.
You seem to be bouncing between two main points: cost (barrier to entry, if you will), and exclusion from content.
Now previously you posted a suggestion for them to bump the monthly subscription cost up so everyone gets the feature. I read that as that you're really not concerned about the cost of the feature, correct? Yet as evidenced above, you still keep coming back to it as a point of contention.
If that's so, then your argument of it being antisocial (the exclusion bit) is entirely without merit, since you have no issues with the barrier to entry. Thus whether it's integrated into the default subscription or not doesn't seem to matter, based on the rest of your posts.
Just trying to understand what your issue with it really is, that's all.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Soulita
The more people use vivox, the less extra charge is neccesary per person to break even or make a profit with it.
Tell that to my long distance carrier, mobile carrier, power and utilities providers, and the jerks who I give money to whenever I pump my gas. Oh and the movie and music industries too. Seriously, are you expecting anything different? More people are playing EVE now than when it launched, and the price hasn't dropped a cent. Why get all up in arms over the voice support?
Originally by: Soulita
Still, a slight increase of subscription fee for everyone (lets say 1% to 3%) would have a similar financial effect for CCP/vivox as charging a lot extra for it for some (around 7% as it is now), while at the same time bringing the added benefit that vivox could turn from a community splitting into a community combining feature, since everyone could use it.
Hope that helped.
Yes, but I still entirely disagree with you on the whole "community splitting" issue. It would have been an issue already with TS and Ventrilo, and I don't see anyone breaking out the torches and pitchforks over that.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Soulita
Honestly winter, you are disappointing me a bit. Vivox is splitting the community as it is introduced atm, vivox costs more than it could/should etc. And you still keep protecting it?
I'm not protecting it, I just don't see the value in making assumptions on the effects of something which was only just implemented. You're not the first to have these concerns, and a lot of those were addressed by the Vivox session at Fanfest. If you weren't there to haven't seen any kind of transcript of it, you missed out on a very informative presentation.
Nobody HAS to use it. But I think the hope is that it will show its value through some of the more interesting integration features that are possible, because as a standalone VOIP solution it would be no different than paying for a TS or Vent server.
Anyway, try not to lump me in to the corporate-shill pile, because that's not my intent.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ogul
Basically this is just an increase in subscription fees by approx. 8% (monthly payment assumed), at some point everybody will just have to use it.
What I don't like is that a CTD/disconnect will now disrupt all communications. I haven't tried it, but does client lag influence voice communication too?
That was definitely talked about at FF. If I recall correctly, and someone can feel free to correct me if they see fit, the response was essentially that Vivox has contingencies for this, such as external software that can pick up on dropped connections to their service. So it'd be like a client on your desktop, and if EVE drops it just picks up so you can hear everyone moaning about how their node just got nuked.
No idea if that's allowed with CCP's solution though. Again, I think the intent is to bring out a starter service and see what the response is, and add on the funky stuff as we go forward. Which is a smart way to do things, if you ask me.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Soulita
And please winter, stop making me quote again what I already said. If you have no new arguments, let it be.
Please. All you seem to be able to do is say "you're wrong" and quote something you said earlier, instead of actually addressing what was said. That's not discussing, that's not even arguing (for the record, I was doing the former, not the latter).
And I "let it be" back when I said I understood what you were getting at, just disagreed with it.
fin
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