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Dethis
Caldari Obliteration Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:15:00 -
[1]
Make it so when NPC's try to target your drones they target you, make it so they only target drones on aggression.
Is this really that difficult to fix? seriously ive lost so many drones on the new missions today im almost losing money per mission. -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:26:00 -
[2]
From the point of view of the NPC is totally logic, a fast system to reduce DPS. The only drawback (beside the problem for hevy drone users (i.e. Gallente)) it that it will cut in the sales of T2 drones for PvE. Losing some T1 drones isn't a problem, losing T2 will cut heavily on mission payout. Maybe the solution is increasing the drones hp, as it was done for the ships.
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loony thezoon
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:30:00 -
[3]
/rant on
Drones have been broken since day 1.
Since they are not primarily a caldari weapon, nothing has every been done to them, apart from nerfing them.
CCP have claimed to have solved the 'drones going slow when recalled' bug 5 or 6 times. It still isn't fixed.
Universal agro on drones is just stupid.
It will not be fixed - I'll bet real life cash on that.
CCP, how about forgetting the extra content, until the current stuff works?
Btw, to those who reply that is different staff doing content/bug fixing, I say: CCP have obviously got the balance wrong between the two, and it needs to be addressed.
/rant off
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dethis Is this really that difficult to fix?
What you are suggesting isn't a "fix", it's dumbing down NPCs to make missions even easier. Why should they be so stupid? If anything, they need to be made more intelligent (although I agree that this would make running missions a pain).
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loony thezoon
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Posted - 2007.03.21 09:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Dethis Is this really that difficult to fix?
What you are suggesting isn't a "fix", it's dumbing down NPCs to make missions even easier. Why should they be so stupid? If anything, they need to be made more intelligent (although I agree that this would make running missions a pain).
It makes sense for npc frigs to agro drones. But not for a BS 250km away to suddenly get interested in a fight when you launch drones, when it had previously been ignoring your ship.
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Amith Silvermoon
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:07:00 -
[6]
The new intresting bug is the drone only agro
Basiclly when you launch your drone one group will attack the drone's, once have recalled them the group goes back to it inactive state untill u relaunch your drone's then they will attack them again.
So basiclly you have half the spawn waiting for you to launch you main weapon so they can kill them
Not fun ----------
A Hobo Movie - A Road to Somewhere |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Amith Silvermoon The new intresting bug is the drone only agro
Basiclly when you launch your drone one group will attack the drone's, once have recalled them the group goes back to it inactive state untill u relaunch your drone's then they will attack them again.
So basiclly you have half the spawn waiting for you to launch you main weapon so they can kill them
Not fun
It sounds a right pain...OTOH it also sounds very sensible as you wrote it. If someone is attacking you and in one hand they have a knife and in the other hand they have a piece of string which hand would you attempt to disable first? -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Cruachan Argylle
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Amith Silvermoon The new intresting bug is the drone only agro
Basiclly when you launch your drone one group will attack the drone's, once have recalled them the group goes back to it inactive state untill u relaunch your drone's then they will attack them again.
So basiclly you have half the spawn waiting for you to launch you main weapon so they can kill them
Not fun
It sounds a right pain...OTOH it also sounds very sensible as you wrote it. If someone is attacking you and in one hand they have a knife and in the other hand they have a piece of string which hand would you attempt to disable first?
Not a great analogy, since the other hand has a gun, not a piece of string.
Think of it this way -
Someone has a gun and is shooting your friends. You watch and do nothing.
As soon as he pulls a knife too, then you attack.
If you get universal agro from shooting, then I would have no issues with universal agro from drones.
As it stands, it is utterly stupid.
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Amith Silvermoon
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Amith Silvermoon on 21/03/2007 10:21:35
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Amith Silvermoon The new intresting bug is the drone only agro
Basiclly when you launch your drone one group will attack the drone's, once have recalled them the group goes back to it inactive state untill u relaunch your drone's then they will attack them again.
So basiclly you have half the spawn waiting for you to launch you main weapon so they can kill them
Not fun
It sounds a right pain...OTOH it also sounds very sensible as you wrote it. If someone is attacking you and in one hand they have a knife and in the other hand they have a piece of string which hand would you attempt to disable first?
The main problem is that the drone attacking spawn tend to be i'ver
1) Trigger form r-enforcements 2) Entire stage agro mobs
So your pretty much buggered because you cant kill your current agro spawn and to attempt to agro the spawn killing your drone will cause the stage to gang bang you. ----------
A Hobo Movie - A Road to Somewhere |
Dethis
Caldari Obliteration Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.03.21 10:27:00 -
[10]
Seriosly, so we need to make npc's smarter for the sole purpose of making my main weapon useless?
What if EVERY npc had defenders that they fire every 2 seconds you'd see a lot more complaining.
Its not that i don't mind a challenge its that i don't have the option to attack something because by the time i do ive lost 2 T2 drones (<-- a lot of isk) -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr Navy Runners
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dethis Seriosly, so we need to make npc's smarter for the sole purpose of making my main weapon useless?
What if EVERY npc had defenders that they fire every 2 seconds you'd see a lot more complaining.
Its not that i don't mind a challenge its that i don't have the option to attack something because by the time i do ive lost 2 T2 drones (<-- a lot of isk)
Aye, the problem is not so much that they shoot drones, the problem is that one race has a serie of ships that relays very heavily on drones. The new situation makes these ships very awkward to use in missions which is quite unfair for ppl who trained up drones as a main weapon.
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Wicked Spider
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Posted - 2007.03.22 00:19:00 -
[12]
yes the new missions make me cry i lose many T2 drones ive been trying to raise my gunnery skills but the domi just isnt designed for it.
guns are not a suplemental for drones,for a domi pilot i dont mind a whole pocket of npc's aggro on you when using drones, but if the whole stage goes berserk just cuz u launched drones - there is something wrong
also dont forget - drones can be scanned out very easely on missions in low sec, T2 drones cost alot, their behaviour is laughable, they laggy when launching/recalling, they get stuck in each other, they dont listen to commands... the list goes on
==== please CCP drone coder hear our cries :)
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Dynast
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Posted - 2007.03.22 01:58:00 -
[13]
Are drones meant to be used as a 'main weapon' in the first place? Most of the ships with drone bonuses also have bonuses to turreted weapons. Perhaps it's just not intended that it be easy to, for example, fit a ship with drone upgrades, tractors, salvagers, and NOS, and use drones as the only means of damage dealing.
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Kylar Renpurs
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Posted - 2007.03.22 04:05:00 -
[14]
The fuh,,, I've been looking forward to the day when NPC's were programmed with a clue and actually attack my drones. And No, contrary to popular belief you *dont have* to take T2 drones into missions, not even for scramblers.
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Marquis Dean
The Last Thing You'll Ever See
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Posted - 2007.03.22 04:09:00 -
[15]
Everything in the pocket should agro the first thing to arrive in it. Maybe some groups could shift agro to anyone else who arrives after a short while, but that's how it should be.
I'm so sick of flying within 500m of a Pithum Inferno to kill an identical Pith Inferno an extra 20km away with multifreqs (as opposed to sitting still and using ultraviolets).
Lvl4 missions are better at this (Pirate Slaughter/Pirate Invasion are fantastic), but there's no real excuse for rats to behave they way they frequently do.
Although I do appreciate that some missions would need tweaking if this were implemented. ---
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Radras
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Posted - 2007.03.22 05:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs The fuh,,, I've been looking forward to the day when NPC's were programmed with a clue and actually attack my drones. And No, contrary to popular belief you *dont have* to take T2 drones into missions, not even for scramblers.
If your that big of a jackass then Npc's should have ways to attack you r bullets too. so you cant use your guns then you would know what its like.
And why the hell wouldnt someone bring t2 drones if it speeds things up.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar Fun Inc
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Posted - 2007.03.22 06:43:00 -
[17]
I fly a Typhoon in lvl 4's and rely heavily on my t1 medium drones to deal with the tacklers and hard to hit ships while my artillary and torps go to work on larger targets. Once the little stuff is out of the way I switch to heavies and take down the BC's and BS's. This works alright since the patch. I have to recall my medium drones more often since the patch but as they are fairly fast and hard to hit I only lose 1 and then they are straight back out. By the time I switch to heavy drones the combat has settled down and I have only lost one since the patch. All in all its been working ok for me - though I lose a few more t1 drones.
I'm wondering if some problems are related to sending out heavies at the start and when some aggro switches to them they are two slow to escape so you lose 1, recall them, and lose another on the way back. Maybe heavy drones are best deployed later in the fight now for this reason?
I find level 4's aggro pretty heavily and I wouldn't want to blame my drones for the whole room aggro I keep getting - especially as they are often in the drone bay when everything aggro's.
I can understand problems like spawns only aggro'ing on drones would hit Gallente pretty hard. I don't aggree with posters who suggest you shouldn't be able to mission run relying on drones. It is a pretty kill joy attitude - people like their drones and have invested skills in them so let them play.
The problem of having to recall drones when mission running and hostiles are around is bad enough - and it is pretty silly. If they can't scan down your BS why the drones?
Cheers
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org
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Posted - 2007.03.22 06:55:00 -
[18]
Let's just toss logic and real life example out the window, shall we? It really has no bearing on game balance anyway. I'm not a drone primary weapon user, but it's annoying to see a ship's primary offensive tool made useless due to mission agression trigger design. People should not have to train Caldari to run missions. To say that drones are too easy in PVE while missiles exist is laughable in any case. IMO, drones need to be not seen as an "entity" by NPC AI. Missions can be made to challenge without punishing a player for choosing the "wrong" race to mission with. Nixus quod virtus es non satis vacuus voluntas quod procuratio
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.03.22 06:56:00 -
[19]
By now I run my missions using both guns and drones - my drones are still a bit more efficient than the guns, but not much. The problem with Gallente ships is that you need both to break the tanks on bigger ships - and you need heavy drones to do it. Now heavy drones are slow and relatively easy to lock, meaning that NPCs kill them faster. Also losing one means losing an considerable amount of firepower. If a missile is shot down by Defenders you launch another one - if one of your heavy drones goes down you usually don't have a replacement (that mainly depends on the mission).
But in my opinion the really big problem is that the only way to see that a drone is getting aggro is to watch their shields, and by the time they take damage it may be too late to recall them. But in the hectic of battle sometimes the first hint I get about drone aggro is that the drone window only shows "4" all of a sudden. Also having the drone group window open makes things more laggy.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.03.22 07:15:00 -
[20]
The sentence is, "If I launch my drones the entire pocket aggros me."
Change the word 'drones' to 'missiles' and you will hear a whole different story than this, "I'm glad NPC's aggro drones, it's about time"
It's stupid because it's not fun. If you play a game that needs a group composed of a tank and healer and others to do damage (I'm sure we've all played at least one game like that) and the NPCs were hard coded to kill healers first, always, the moment they cast a single heal, ignoring all else--it wouldn't be fun.
Drone-induced pocket-wide aggro is moronic, a major blow to one race, and makes fighting smaller ships really difficult for two others. But the Raven will be just fine, because the drone bay on it is an afterthought, completely un-needed. Drone aggro could be fixed if CCP cared to. Someone already nailed it though--they aren't missiles, and Caldari are fine without them, so there's no need to bother with it.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.22 07:17:00 -
[21]
aye the drone aggro bug control bug is really becoming annoying fast tho its helping stimulate the t2 drone marke so not as many complains
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