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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
74
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's frequently claimed that BC's are too cost effective. Compared to many other hulls, I'm inclined to agree. The price difference between a cruiser and a BC is that of a couple t2 guns. Sure the hull costs an extra 20M, but that's ensured so the net loss after it pops is only maybe 5M isk more than that of a normal t1 cruiser. On the other hand, the loss difference between a BC and tier 1 BS is close to 100M isk due to fitting/rig cost. As such, I think it appropriate for BC's to use large rigs instead of mediums. This will increase the price difference between a BC and a cruiser to around 40-50M isk (assuming trimarks or shield extender rigs) and about the same compared to a tier 1 BS as well. This isn't an original idea, but I don't think I've seen it all on it's own like this either. |
Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
XL rigs for caps?  |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
124
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just as a note, it's perfectly possible to fit tier 1 BS's for about the same cost as a tier 2 BC - just got to remember that trimarks and extenders are not in fact the only fitting options out there. I already know a lot of people who just fit resist rigs to stay on a budget - your idea will probably just make more people switch over to all tank modules + damage rigs or just swap their trimarks and extenders for resist rigs.
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Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
492
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Do we need to have another lesson on "CCP doesn't set prices, players do"? |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
3325
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Do we need to have another lesson on "CCP doesn't set prices, players do"? Not empty quoting.
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
18
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Feligast wrote:Do we need to have another lesson on "CCP doesn't set prices, players do"?
But CCP does set the mineral requirements of BPO's from which rigs are made. Thus given that they take the same parts to make, the set the relative price difference between medium and large sizes of a given rig.
CCP also sets which ships use which rig sizes, which is what this thread is about, and what your post is not about.
Sorry if this all goes over your head. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
74
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 21:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
As said, CCP sets mineral requirements and relative requirements between small/medium/large whatevers. As such, although they don't set hard price tags on things, they can control the relative prices and that's all that matters. Anyways, back to the topic.
It is true that some rigs like shield resistance rigs are dirt cheap, even at BS size. But that's only true for shield rigs. Armor resistance rigs have very similar build requirements to trimarks and as such, have basically the same price. Also, damage rigs are half as effective as damage mods. So if you adjust your fit to be budget minded, you are in fact gimping your ship with far below optimal setups. Just compare the stats of a geddon with 3x damage rigs and some extra plates to that of a geddon with 3x trimarks and 3x heatsinks. I think you'll be surprised at the difference in both tank and dps. You'll also find that you have to downgrade your guns to DHPII's because both those rigs and the extra plates obliterate your PG.
All that said, the shield side of things is a problem I didn't think of. A drake using 3x resistance rigs may not be as potent as one with extenders, but it's still pretty nasty for the price. For my proposed balance to work, I think build requirements on shield resistance rigs (all sizes) may also need to be increased dramatically. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2011.12.22 22:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Feligast wrote:Do we need to have another lesson on "CCP doesn't set prices, players do"? But CCP does set the mineral requirements of BPO's from which rigs are made. Thus given that they take the same parts to make, the set the relative price difference between medium and large sizes of a given rig. CCP also sets which ships use which rig sizes, which is what this thread is about, and what your post is not about. Sorry if this all goes over your head.
I see.
So rather than, say, manipulating the market yourself, or getting together a cartel of players to raise prices on battlecruisers, you and the OP want to whine to Mommy to "fix" the mineral requirements, and/or change the rig sizes, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Sorry to have to talk down to your level, but whatever. |
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
18
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Posted - 2011.12.22 23:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Feligast wrote:So rather than, say, manipulating the market yourself, or getting together a cartel of players to raise prices on battlecruisers, you and the OP want to whine to Mommy to "fix" the mineral requirements, and/or change the rig sizes, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
this....its already in the game for certain ships, rigs and mods. A price according to bpo (if it exists, some t2 is pure invention) and price on market is very different for some items in this game.
And more expensive BC's cuts out the noobs. Inty/af then BC....the noobs fast and easy track to pvp. Opens up even 0.0 corp membership to them if they find non 40 million sp or you suck corps. A nice track, gets them into the fight faster.
Its the noobs adding to bc glut. And it has nothing to do with bc's, porblem lies in the t1 cruisers. Both ships require damn near all the same skill sets (BC obviously needing the BC skill lol). They get the BC they might live to see a fight through and redock. T1 cruisers....exist to diaf. If they find a low sp friendly pvp crew (and don't want to do piracy), they can't even bring them most of the time. From time in 0.0, goons the only crew I have seen that lets peeps run these things in fleet ops (this over a year ago, but not seeing them change this since its been their way for years), most others the combat char has kill/loss mails from its t2, BS, BC or caps only on them.
Many T1 have grid issues. grid issues that lead to fits you have to make many tradeoffs to get a workable fit. One could say learn fiting skills. Noobs won't be AWU 5 off the bat. Even better, good fitting skills dont''t even help them for the higher sp players. I will not fault noobs for drake spam. Mainly because with almost perfect fitting skills, crapacal is still a pita to fit.
tl;dr, So as long as t1 cruisers continue to suck, or are not wanted in the bulk of organized pvp crews....you will have BC glut.
Need to fix the t1 cruisers. CCP does that, people would run them more over BC imo.
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Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
69
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Posted - 2011.12.23 01:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:
tl;dr, So as long as t1 cruisers continue to suck, or are not wanted in the bulk of organized pvp crews....you will have BC glut.
Need to fix the t1 cruisers. CCP does that, people would run them more over BC imo.
This. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
75
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Posted - 2011.12.23 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
You know, once upon a time all ships used large rigs. In fact I still have a few of them. Back then, BC's and t1 cruisers were actually pretty well balanced with each other. The reason is no one bothered rigging t1 cruisers as it wasn't at all cost effective. BC's were borderline as to whether or not you'd rig them. The result was a pvp fit BC either wasn't that much better than a cruiser or it was far more expensive.
In any case, you don't have to rig your ship for it to undock. You certainly don't have to rig them to run missions. It just isn't that big of a deal for new players. They don't need rigs to grind lvl3 missions in a BC, I know I didn't. I don't think I rigged a ship until six months into the game.
All that said, if changing rig sizes is such a horrible idea then I have a second idea which I actually like better. But I know you're going to hate it. Delete insurance for all ship classes entirely. This will allow the base hull price difference to better spread the price difference between ship classes. It will also make t1 ship losses far more meaningful. It would even curb the suicide ganking as that relies heavily on insurance. But I think it's safe to say that change won't happen. Far too many tears for CCP to make such a bold move. |
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